Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[VioletNevermind]

Thank you all for saying what I think I needed to hear/read.  It's been very difficult for me this year to turn off my considerable (raging!) maternal instincts and allow her to reap what she has sown.  Every time I feel like I'm "teaching her a lesson," I am swiftly reminded of the extremely low position I hold in her life.  If I don't contact her, she doesn't contact me unless it's to ask for something.  I have been neutralized and discarded as a mother and human being in every possible way.  She does whatever she wants at her father's.  The only reason I've kept her on my cell phone plan (she resentfully pays her portion) is so that I'll be able to track her location when the bottom falls out during one of these drug-fueled evenings of hers.  Her father is not tech-savvy, but I am, so someone needs to know what the hell is going on.  The only downside is that it's hard to stop myself from looking at the cell phone usage a couple of times a week and see that she responds to her father immediately with dozens of daily texts and pictures while my messages sit there unanswered for 48 hours at a time.  It's hurtful and I'm tired of pretending that it's not.  I'm very, very tired of pretending that everything is and will be okay because she's young and immature.

So, down to business: My brother and I decided to have a very simple dinner out somewhere for her and give modest gifts (think Uber gift cards all around) rather than having a full-scale shindig at the house with all the trimmings.  I'll announce the date and anyone who wants to come is free to come.  If she tells me at the last minute that she can't make it on that date because she has plans to take drugs with an Instagram friend of hers (a distinct possibility), so be it; my brother and I will still go out to dinner with the kids and have a lovely time.  We want to attempt to show her some grace and force her to face her family members (especially her little cousins who idolized her, two of whom are so young that they hardly remember her now).  I know now that the restaurant won't be good enough for her, it won't be vegan enough for her, and the very simple gifts she receives won't be nice enough for her.  I know that I'll see on the cell phone records after the dinner that she texted with her father and friends all throughout the evening.  I know that she'll want to be taken back to her father's immediately following the dinner instead of going back to my house for some one-on-one mother-daughter time, as anyone else would.  I know these things, but we're going to do it anyway so that we can say that we weren't the ones to "forsake" her.  I'm sick of doing penance for the crimes I committed: attempting to teach her some morals and a basic sense of responsibility.

Thanks for listening and sympathizing, everyone.  I gain value from every single post and I'm always open to your thoughts.  I'm just feeling my way along here; I have no clue what to do, if anything.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Suzy Rhapsody

[theredhead77]

43 minutes ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Every time I feel like I'm "teaching her a lesson," I am swiftly reminded of the extremely low position I hold in her life.  If I don't contact her, she doesn't contact me unless it's to ask for something.  I have been neutralized and discarded as a mother and human being in every possible way. 

Have you considered seeing a therapist to help you sort out what is going on and your [completely understandable] feelings? 

[VioletNevermind]

11 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

Have you considered seeing a therapist to help you sort out what is going on and your [completely understandable] feelings? 

I do see one (and have tried several others), but nothing seems to “get through,” if that makes sense.  I take medication for depression, but all that does is blunt/dull the emotions.  This dynamic with her father has been in place her entire life.  It will come as no surprise that he was abusive on every level you can think of during our brief marriage.  If you’re young and naive, he’s able to manipulate you.  He’s done a fine job with my daughter.  

[BookWoman56]

I need a reality check, because this is an issue where my ongoing rage and resentment may be clouding my judgment. Last spring my oldest sister died; she had been moderately ill for a few months and then collapsed, and died a month later. While she was moderately ill, she gave both her own debit card and the debit card for the account for my mother’s SS and other benefits, which my sister controlled, to one of her daughters, Niece A. The purpose was for Niece A to buy groceries for my sister and various items for my mother, who was in an assisted living facility. 

Niece A had gone through some serious substance abuse problems several years earlier and then got married, had a couple of kids, got divorced, gone back to college and finished her degree, and had a steady job. So we all thought she had turned her life around. Instead, she just got better at hiding things. She walked off with numerous valuables of my mother’s, that were in storage at the house her sister (Niece B) owned, where my sister was living. Niece B had warned my sister about giving the debit cards to Niece A, but also had a job with irregular hours that made it hard for her to handle the various shopping and errands my sister needed done. 

Niece A proceeded to drain the checking accounts the debit cards were linked to. Niece B was able later to see the online bank statements, and see that while her mother was in the hospital dying, Niece A was withdrawing hundreds of dollars from ATMs. She flatly stole money from both her mother and my mother, because she knew her mother was dying and wouldn’t be able to press charges. And to this day, denies that she did anything wrong. She insists her mother would have wanted her to have the cash, and that she didn’t realize the other debit card was for my mother’s money. (Account was in my sister’s name, as she was essentially my mother’s guardian.) 

After all this came to light, my other siblings and I made it clear to Niece A that we wanted nothing to do with her. Niece B changed the locks on her house to prevent further thefts, and cut off contact. Her brother and SIL who live in the same town cut off contact. 

So after no contact for over a year, Niece A found out somehow that my mother’s health is failing, and asked if she could come visit, with her kids, before my mother dies. My mother has stated repeatedly that she doesn’t want to see Niece A, because of the theft of the money and physical possessions. Niece A is bitching and moaning how unfair it is that her family has cut her off, and that her kids have no contact with our side of the family. 

My gut reaction is to tell her that there’s no way in hell I will allow her to see my mother, who doesn’t want to see her anyway. And that I feel sorry for her kids having no contact with our family, but that isolation is because of her own reprehensible actions, not because our family just took a whim to cut off contact. It’s possible her brother will relent to enable contact between his kids and her kids, but that’s his decision to make. For me, I am not willing to make my mother upset just because I feel sorry for Niece A’s kids, who are the innocent victims of their mother being a jerk. It’s not like Niece A is proposing coming over here to apologize to my mother. She claims she has a right for her and her kids to see my mother before she dies.   

Thoughts/advice?

[Mindthinkr]

⬆️⬆️ Whew. That’s a heavy one. First I would respect your Mother’s wishes. If she doesn’t want to see Niece A, don’t force it upon her. It could give her anxiety or subject her to bullying so that the Niece A can get what she wants out of the visit. 

If she wanted a clean slate with your Mother she should have written her an apology letter long ago with full or partial restitution. It’s a shame for her children, but she made that bed so let her lie in it. You owe her nothing. Family can be very trying sometimes. I truly hope this works out well for you and your Mom. 

Is your Mother’s will in tact? 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Mindthinkr

[Bastet]

Niece A can have a seat.  Your mother was the victim of her crime, that she to this day refuses to take responsibility for, and is now in failing health; if she does not want to see her, that's the end of it.

The kids may not even be bothered by the lack of contact with their mom's side of the family, that may just be something Niece A is saying to manipulate the situation, but even if they are, that's on their mom.  If they feel left out, that's sad, but better to risk that than your mom being upset.

[Browncoat]

Go with your gut reaction, and tell Niece A no way in hell.

[BookWoman56]

Thanks, @Mindthinkr, @Bastet, and @Browncoat. I am going to go with my gut reaction and tell her she can’t come. In terms of her kids, one is too young to remember my mother, and while the other child is old enough, even under different circumstances it might be better for her not to see my mother now, with her memory failing enough she might not know who the child is. 

My mother has virtually no assets left after my father’s major health expenses before he died. Her remaining physical possessions are in my possession, and I have a durable POA for all legal, financial, medical, etc. decisions. My siblings have all agreed that  for all intents and purposes, those will be mine upon her death, with the exception of a few specific items she wants to go to designated people. Her will left everything to be divided equally among the kids. She’s not mentally competent to sign a new will. If Niece A dares to show up after my mother dies and claim she is entitled to some portion of those possessions, I will do whatever is necessary to prevent her from getting her hands on anything else. She’s already walked off with jewelry, collectibles, expensive household items, and a large chunk of cash. She’s not getting another dime or stick of furniture. 

[VioletNevermind]

Short and sweet: My daughter never called when she said she would, so we decided not to even have a small birthday dinner out with my brother and his kids since we’re all so disconnected from her.  It’s now been nearly two weeks since her birthday.  I haven’t even heard her voice since early July and she hasn’t stepped foot in my house since May.  My family and I decided to just let this year’s family birthday go on by and hope we can reconnect over the next year.  She just texted: “Hey, did u want to plan to have my party next weekend?”  She is nothing if not bold and nervy.

What do I say, folks?  I am SO not good at these things- and I think she knows it.  Not only do I not want to do a party for her this year, but I also don’t think she deserves one from the family (and mother!) she has completely ignored and brushed off for a year.  I hope that doesn’t sound too horrible.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Suzy Rhapsody

[AgentRXS]

Her birthday is over. You offered and she was too busy, so it is her loss.  Tell her you would be more than happy to have her over next weekend to spend time together, but there will be no party as it is no longer her birthday. Short and sweet.

[Mindthinkr]

@Suzy Rhapsody You are not it the wrong. I know how you feel too. I called my daughter earlier this week to let her know that I was home safely from a trip (I had tried texting her 24 hours prior) and I’m still waiting for a return call. 

Id tell her...I’m sorry, but I have other plans (if she asks you to be specific tell her you have a date with some girlfriends...us). That you thought that she would have been available around her actual birthday so you can’t possibly cancel your plans and don’t know what your other family’s plans are for that weekend. I’ve heard of people wanting to celebrate their birthday month, but if you give in her demands will only strengthen. Stand firm. You have done nothing wrong and have no reason to feel guilt if she tries to make you feel bad for not giving in to her whim. She might have something even better come up and cancel on at the last minute anyway. I hope I’m not being harsh. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Mindthinkr
Repeated a word.

[BookWoman56]

2 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

Her birthday is over. You offered and she was too busy, so it is her loss.  Tell her you would be more than happy to have her over next weekend to spend time together, but there will be no party as it is no longer her birthday. Short and sweet.

Agreed. The time for a birthday party has passed. Maybe she has spent whatever cash she raked in from her father’s family and is now just trying to get money or presents from your family? In any case, there’s no way you should plan a family party, given her tendency to flake out and not show up. Offer to have her come over to your house, perhaps, but for a specific day and time. If she accepts and shows up, fine. If she blows you off again, then leave your house for a few hours and go do something fun, so you’re not sitting there thinking maybe she’ll show up.

You need to make it clear that you’re not going to cater to her demands and whims. Yes, offer her affection and emotional support, but her ongoing rejection of those things means you need to pull back a little. After you respond to her message, let her be the one to initiate contact for a while. As long as she feels you’re desperate for contact and interaction on any terms, she will continue to try to exploit that. While she’s now technically an adult and your relationship should involve some give and take on both sides, you need to establish what your own parameters are for the relationship to work. Right now she’s doing all the taking. 

Have you considered writing down how you feel about the situation, and just mailing that as a letter to her? That is, describe the relationship you used to have, the relationship you currently have, the relationship you’d like to have, what you think needs to happen to get to that point, and what your hopes are for her future. A calm appraisal of the state of your relationship with her might be the best birthday present you could give her. 

[theredhead77]

3 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

My daughter never called when she said she would, so we decided not to even have a small birthday dinner out with my brother and his kids since we’re all so disconnected from her.

3 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

My family and I decided to just let this year’s family birthday go on by and hope we can reconnect over the next year.

3 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

She just texted: “Hey, did u want to plan to have my party next weekend?”

Sounds like she missed her family birthday party. I'd respond and tell her you had planned a birthday dinner for her on her birthday (per her request) without elaborating that it was her uncle and nephews and she chose not to attend.

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

What do I say, folks?

If you still want to do a little something the two of you:  "I was hoping to see you the night of your birthday like we'd talked about, but didn't hear back from you.  Would you like to [go to dinner/come over/whatever you'd like to invite her to do] on [date A that's convenient for you]?  If you're working, I could do [date B that's convenient for you] instead.  Let me know which of those is best, and I really look forward to seeing you; it has been too long."

It's more than she deserves, but she's your daughter, and if it would do your heart good to see her, make a second stab at it.  Otherwise:  "I was looking forward to seeing you, but when you didn't get back in touch as scheduled I assumed you were no longer interested.  I hope you had a nice time whatever you decided to do that night instead."

[Browncoat]

@Bastet is wise, @Suzy Rhapsody.  Those are good scripts.

[auntlada]

7 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Not only do I not want to do a party for her this year, but I also don’t think she deserves one from the family (and mother!) she has completely ignored and brushed off for a year.

I have never been in a situation anywhere close to yours, so I may not be the best person to give advice. My first inclination, however, is to include something like what you wrote that I quoted. It may be harsher than you want to be, though, and it may close the door in a more permanent way than you want.

[emma675]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

I was looking forward to seeing you, but when you didn't get back in touch as scheduled I assumed you were no longer interested.  I hope you had a nice time whatever you decided to do that night instead.

This. It's firm but loving and makes it clear she had her shot and blew it. Yes, she is your daughter and you love her but it's time for her to start feeling the repercussions of her actions. 

[Jaded]

I agree with @emma675's selection of what to reply with.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Jaded

[VioletNevermind]

I suggested that she call me tonight to discuss her birthday party, mostly so that we could at least attempt to uncover some of the reasons for why things are so tense between us.  It didn't go very well.  She was clearly not into the call, but she did it.  I flat-out asked her why things are so distant.  She said (after much prodding) that she has some negative thoughts about the past.  She said that she "doesn't know how" to have a deeper relationship with me.  She wouldn't go into specifics because she was "tired."  I told her that I hadn't been perfect and it had been very difficult to be the sole parent and "bad guy" when the going got tough.  I also admitted, as I have in the past, that I'd gotten angry about things that I probably shouldn't have, but hindsight is always 20/20.  She had no real response to anything, just one murmur or "hmm" after another.  There were definitely no admissions of her own faults, but I'm probably expecting way too much from the person she is right now.  I might as well have been talking to a wall.  I asked her as gently as I could why she would even want to have a birthday party with me when she feels this way and we're not really a part of each other's daily lives- at her choosing.  "Because it's my birthday."  When I said that her family would love to hear from her, she said that they can feel free to call, too.  I told her that her grandparents are getting older and she should call them, but she reiterated her statement about other people calling her.  At a certain point, I stopped talking because I was started to feel like an idiot, as if I was begging her to be my daughter again.  I've said it before, but I'm beyond sick of being portrayed like some horribly abusive mother who needs to atone for a long list of transgressions that she won't even discuss with me.  So much of this is undoubtedly her father's influence.  Just as I told her, I was not perfect and I definitely made mistakes, but I really don't think I deserve this.  I'm starting to feel like she holds all of the cards here.

At the end of the conversation, she said, "I'll answer one more question, then I'm going to get off the phone."  I read these things and make myself sick.  I asked if she would be willing to discuss these things with a third party present, namely her grandmother, with whom she was once very close.  I suggested that we all talk on the phone so she can air these grievances.  She said that was fine and we could try to do it either Monday or Tuesday, depending on how "busy" she is.  I'll believe it when I see it.

I appreciate all of your truly great advice and thoughts, everyone.  I feel like absolute shit and I really don't know what to think about any of this anymore.

[AgentRXS]

3 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

She had no real response to anything, just one murmur or "hmm" after another.  There were definitely no admissions of her own faults, but I'm probably expecting way too much from the person she is right now.  I might as well have been talking to a wall.  I asked her as gently as I could why she would even want to have a birthday party with me when she feels this way and we're not really a part of each other's daily lives- at her choosing.  "Because it's my birthday." 

Which confirms she was in it for what she could get out of it.

3 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

I'm starting to feel like she holds all of the cards here.

Sadly, it seems like she does but you can change all that by going No Contact with her for awhile.

3 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

I suggested that we all talk on the phone so she can air these grievances.  She said that was fine and we could try to do it either Monday or Tuesday, depending on how "busy" she is.  I'll believe it when I see it.

From what you say, she's not really into it, so I don't think you are going to get any resolution or satisfactory answers. She will likely come up with excuses or outright lies to justify her shitty behavior. I would save that conversation for when she's gained some maturity.

[2727]

@Suzy Rhapsody, there was a point in my late teens when I despised my (single) mother. No good reason, really, except that she had rules. (Freud would have some suggestions.)

I moved out when I graduated from high school and rebuffed my mother at every turn. Never initiated contact and got quite annoyed if she called me or came by my place to visit. The more she tried to force me to talk, the angrier I got and the further away I pulled. I felt like she was trying to run my life, suffocating and manipulating me, and being a bitch. I got pissed if she was fakely upbeat and cheerful, pissed if she cried, pissed if she tried to be reasonable. Just pissed every time. 

I was close to my grandmother but stopped seeing her as well because I knew she'd tell my mother anything I said.

At the time there was nothing my mother could have said or done to make me see her side or draw us closer because I was sick of being nagged and did not give a fuck. Has it ever worked to force someone to feel a way they do not?

She and my grandmother finally gave up in the face of my implacable animosity, which was a relief. I was finally able to gain some perspective in my late twenties but still carried resentment for what I saw as her meddling and interference in my adult life.

[Mindthinkr]

I’m still waiting for a call from my daughter. 

I think that she might be mad because I’m doing so much traveling and enjoying my life. Mind you I took her to 19 countries before she was 18 so it’s not that I waited until she was gone to begin to do this. I wonder that she’s jealous. She’s at home with animals (some are the barn kind that require daily care...I have babysat them so they could go away), 3 kids, husband and working 2 jobs. I have offered to help her out so that she needn’t work so hard or much, but I raised her to be independent and she is that many times over. She thinks that I should stay home. Not pal around with my neighbors or friends. I might just be reaching for straws here because we had no issues last we spoke except she didn’t seem happy that I was going to the mountains for a long weekend. 

You can be the best parent and raise a bad kid. 

You can be the worst parent and raise a good kid. 

Nobody gets a manual with their newborn.

[VioletNevermind]

4 hours ago, AgentRXS said:

Which confirms she was in it for what she could get out of it.

You and so many others were absolutely right.  She tells me in one breath that she doesn't know how to have a deeper adult relationship with me, and in the next breath, asks when her birthday party is scheduled.  I tried numerous times to gently steer the conversation back to things we could possibly do to connect more, but most of her focus was on a party that isn't happening.  When she started talking in her monotone, "I'm extremely tired and will pass out soon" voice, I wrapped up the conversation.  I can't say for sure that she hadn't been drinking and/or doing drugs earlier in the evening, but let's put it this way: I'd bet my last $100 (and yours!) that she had been.  

1 hour ago, 2727 said:

@Suzy Rhapsody, there was a point in my late teens when I despised my (single) mother. No good reason, really, except that she had rules. (Freud would have some suggestions.)

I moved out when I graduated from high school and rebuffed my mother at every turn. Never initiated contact and got quite annoyed if she called me or came by my place to visit. The more she tried to force me to talk, the angrier I got and the further away I pulled. I felt like she was trying to run my life, suffocating and manipulating me, and being a bitch. I got pissed if she was fakely upbeat and cheerful, pissed if she cried, pissed if she tried to be reasonable. Just pissed every time. 

I was close to my grandmother but stopped seeing her as well because I knew she'd tell my mother anything I said.

At the time there was nothing my mother could have said or done to make me see her side or draw us closer because I was sick of being nagged and did not give a fuck. Has it ever worked to force someone to feel a way they do not?

She and my grandmother finally gave up in the face of my implacable animosity, which was a relief. I was finally able to gain some perspective in my late twenties but still carried resentment for what I saw as her meddling and interference in my adult life.

Wow.  I suspected for a moment that my daughter had created a Primetimer account and was responding directly to my post.  This is almost exactly what is happening, but she's a tiny bit more receptive (or at least puts on an act for my benefit).  My daughter and I were very close when she was a child, all the way up to her mid-teens.  I panicked and got angry when she started to go off the rails and completely give up on school in favor of fun.  Add to that her father, who loved nothing more than to disparage me, and you have a pretty bad situation.  I took it all way too personally and was probably far too invested in her future, but that was easy to do when you're living in a county with extremely high academic standards and her teachers were breathing down my neck.  It's easy to look back after the fact and see the mistakes you made, but acknowledging those mistakes with my daughter doesn't appear to be having a positive effect.  When she says she doesn't know how to have a deeper adult relationship with me, she's probably remembering how close we were and thinks that should be the minimum standard.  Either way, her feelings appear to be hardening with time and I have no clue what to do about it.  I really appreciate your perspective.

[theredhead77]

This is going to sound really harsh, harsher than I mean it to be...

Your daughter does not owe you the relationship you want and pushing her to conform is not going to fix anything. You need to focus on yourself. I asked up thread if you considered therapy and if the therapist you found didn't work it may be time to find different one and perhaps a new doctor to try some new medications to help with your depression if your current doctor isn't willing to change what you are on to have a more effective treatment plan.

She is right, calling and engaging is a two way street. My mom bemoans that our very small family is not close. Our [local to her] cousin never calls but she also never calls him. His work brings him close to where my parents live but he never calls to grab lunch or dinner and she never calls and says "hey, the next time you are in the area for work give me a call and we can grab lunch". If this was a friendship everyone would say to let the friendship fizzle out but it's family so we just hold on.

I'm not saying to let the relationship with your daughter fizzle out, I am suggesting you back off on forcing having your version of a relationship. Maybe she'll come around in a few years, maybe she won't. In the meantime, focus on yourself and your relationships with your friends and family.

[Jaded]

Co-signing what @theredhead77 posted above. (I know I post and agree with others a lot)

@Suzy Rhapsody it's coming through loud and clear that you love your daughter very much along with the fact that you did what you thought was best at the time when raising her especially as a single Mom with what you've described as a not as in the picture Father. 

My Mom was a single Mom and growing up we became way to close which went on to being the same way as adults. It's a lot easier now years later to say that we were co-dependent on each other. It really farked up my life in ways I'm paying for now after her death especially. I'm not sure if I'll ever get out of this hole. I try not to look back and think how my life would have been different if I had been mentally healthy enough to find a way to go out into the world on my own, find myself and not be so dependent on someone else.  The co-dependence caused my Mom to react in ways that made me feel bad when we'd get into arguments over it which would leave us both having said hurtful things to one another. I never had another parent or anyone elses home to go to in order to have some time away from everything so now I've gotten to like being alone with my cat too much. So much so that it's hard to always know how to relate to others since I lived in a bubble for so long with someone else and still am continuing in that bubble singularly especially due to finance issues that seem inescapable for a variety of reasons.

It's clear that you're hurt by your daughter's treatment towards you and that she needs time on her own to find herself even if it's in ways you clearly disapprove of. It sounds like she needs to learn some life lessons too. I can see how she might feel like your trying to manipulate her in regards to making contact as much as you feel she's doing the same in return. Honestly after your last post I can also see how she might feel smothered to the point that it sounded like she started to shut down over the phone even though that's not the way you intended your last conversation to go. If that's how things went between you in the past her limited contact on her side makes a bit of sense. You tried to do too much in one phone call because of how limited contact between the two of you has been outside of texts. Try to use it all as a learning experience for when the two of you speak again and how not to handle things next time. It was easier when she was younger for the two of you to be so close because her world view was smaller. 

[Mindthinkr]

My daughter called. Seems like she had a pretty good reason not to call. Busy. 

She works in an Elementary School. There was one parent less child who illegally emigrated into the US. He is staying with a random family in her area. He tested positive for tuberculosis. He is now in a hospital dying. The school is trying to decide what to do because he exposed 88 other children as well as members of staff. They are trying to figure out what to do. Will the public health people come in and test everyone or does everyone have to go get tested on their own? That falls into the dangerous area of non-compliance. Many that live in her area do not have the resources to pay for a Mantoux test, much less make it back two days later for it to be read. It seems their town is in an upheaval about this. Since my kid is the secretary of the school she will have to determine what can be done and then facilitate it. She also has a LPN so I’m not worried about what she will choose. She understands what she is up against and is working hard on a solution. 

So all that worry was for naught. Whew.

She still is willing to take my cats while I make the next trip. They’ll live in my granddaughter’s room. They’ll be comfortable there because when I sold my house and lived with them for six weeks they stayed there with me. They’ll get attention and sleep with my granddaughter. 

I’m tickled that I seem to have a happy ending to my worries. I hope the same for the other posters who are dealing with similar situations. 

Be well Everyone 

[Bastet]

14 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

At the end of the conversation, she said, "I'll answer one more question, then I'm going to get off the phone."  I read these things and make myself sick.  I asked if she would be willing to discuss these things with a third party present, namely her grandmother, with whom she was once very close.  I suggested that we all talk on the phone so she can air these grievances.  She said that was fine and we could try to do it either Monday or Tuesday, depending on how "busy" she is.  I'll believe it when I see it.

I think the only third party the two of you should discuss these things in the presence of and have guide the conversation/fallout is an educated and trained professional.  I don't think she's ready for that, and I'm not entirely sure you are, so I think what's best for now is for you to work on you.  (She's not ready to work on her, and she may never be, but she has to do it in her own time.)

I don't know where exactly the line should be drawn in your relationship with her, but I do think it's clear it needs to be moved back some.  You're not getting anywhere, and it's harming you.  There's a world between no contact at all, ever, and clinging to the scraps she chooses to dole out, and you need to find it.  On your own -- you determine (and you may need a therapist's help for this) what degree of involvement is healthy for you, and she either is open to that or isn't. 

Every mother of a newly-grown child needs to figure out who she is in addition to being a mother, and that's particularly true in a case like yours, where you were a young, single mother - almost all your adult life has been primarily about being her mom; all aspects of you were lived with an eye towards her present and her future.  Add on the fact your daughter is not currently invested in that relationship, and you really need to develop your life as a person who is many things on top of being a mother. 

[methodwriter85]

Hi, it's me again, the guy who lives with his mother in a house that has a lot of crap from a sister that moved to California six years ago and visits here once or twice again. (While not really doing anything but removing a bag or two of stuff during each visit.)

So my mother told me that while she was on a recent visit, she said herself and another sister are going on a visit in April to a paternal branch of family that lives in Southeastern area. My mother asked this "sister" if they were going to invite me, and she apparently told my mother no, because I don't count as a family member to this branch of the family because I'm the result of an affair my mother had back in the 80's. Also, that I just count as a "half-brother" and I don't count as a full-brother because I don't have that Johnson blood flowing through me like she and the other sister do. (There's another sister who's from my mother's first marriage.)

So, yeah. I wouldn't have been interested anyway (other than an aunt, this paternal branch of the family hasn't made any overtures towards us for like a decade or something and it's always gotta be moves from this side), but it stings pretty hard regardless.

I'm fucking done. I am so done with this bitch. She's said and done a lot of things over the years that has pissed me off, but this was finally the line for me. I'll be cordial, whatever, but I am never considering her an actual sister again. It's been a thing that since our father is a deadbeat that hasn't contacted us in 25 years (you know, the blood that this bitch is so proud to have running through her veins) that I've walked them down the aisle for their weddings. She is so far not married, and if and when she does get married, she can explain to people why she didn't have her brother to walk her down the aisle like the other two sisters did.

Seriously, I am done.

[emma675]

That really sucks, she sounds like a miserable person. What did your mother have to say when she said that? 

[BookWoman56]

@methodwriter85, I have forgotten details on your housing situation. Is it your house or your mother’s house where your half-sister has left all her crap for years with no real effort to reclaim it? If it’s your house, I’d seriously consider telling your half-sister she has 2 months to come get her stuff or it’s going to Goodwill. If it’s your mother’s house, can you persuade your mother to invest in a storage shed or something to put all of the stuff left behind? I’ve recently been considering this option for some of my mother’s stuff. Although the regular storage sheds can be fairly pricey, I found some made of that very hard resin material for a decent price (7’ x 7’ for ~$700). That at least would get some of her crap out of your living space. 

As for her behavior excluding you from a “family” event, she’s made it clear how she views you. And I think you have the right response: be civil but quit thinking of her as your sister. FWIW, though, it’s quite possible to have siblings who despite having both parents in common, treat each other badly and behave in entitled ways. In your case, try to stop investing emotional energy, positive or negative, into the relationship. She obviously doesn’t give a flying fuck if she hurts your feelings, so to the extent you can, quit having any fucks to give about her and what she thinks of you. 

[methodwriter85]

I live in my mother's house. I broached that idea with my mom, and she said no. Honestly, since it's not my call, I'm going to respect my mother on that. We've gotten to the point where most of that woman's crap is kept to the garage and backroom patio we never used anyway, so it's much more bearable than it was.

During this last visit I pretty much kept in my room and didn't engage much with her for the sake of my own sanity. Knowing that she said that about me, I'm really glad that I did. I did have to listen to her screech to my mother about wearing a dress that she has left in my mother's house. Which is just fucking insane, and encapsulates everything I don't like about her. She is a piece of shit person.

Unfortunately my mother is going to continue bending over backwards for her and letting her stay in the house for these visits for free despite all this bullshit because she's "family" and she wants to see my niece, but since it's clear that Sharon doesn't view me as family because I'm not "really" a Johnson, I really don't have to give a shit.

Quote

That really sucks, she sounds like a miserable person.

She has this fake friendly veneer that she puts up with people (she was a high school cheerleader), but at her core she's person who uses other people, will never own up to her own mistakes, and believes she's entitled to give people unsolicited life advice because...reasons? She did luck into getting a boyfriend who supports her and her daughter in an nice middle-class lifestyle in suburban San Francisco, so I guess that entitles her to tell people how they should live their lives.

That's pretty much why I don't intend on confronting her about it, because she is literally a person who will never admit to her own faults and mistakes. Everything bad that happened in her life is always someone else's fault. However, like I said, if and when she does get married (and the boyfriend doesn't sound like he wants to get married), I am not walking her down the aisle like I did for the other two and I'll tell her the reason why I won't. I am never forgetting this.

Edited October 2, 2019 by methodwriter85

[KnoxForPres]

On 9/29/2019 at 9:41 AM, Suzy Rhapsody said:

You and so many others were absolutely right.  She tells me in one breath that she doesn't know how to have a deeper adult relationship with me, and in the next breath, asks when her birthday party is scheduled.  I tried numerous times to gently steer the conversation back to things we could possibly do to connect more, but most of her focus was on a party that isn't happening.  When she started talking in her monotone, "I'm extremely tired and will pass out soon" voice, I wrapped up the conversation.  I can't say for sure that she hadn't been drinking and/or doing drugs earlier in the evening, but let's put it this way: I'd bet my last $100 (and yours!) that she had been.  

Wow.  I suspected for a moment that my daughter had created a Primetimer account and was responding directly to my post.  This is almost exactly what is happening, but she's a tiny bit more receptive (or at least puts on an act for my benefit).  My daughter and I were very close when she was a child, all the way up to her mid-teens.  I panicked and got angry when she started to go off the rails and completely give up on school in favor of fun.  Add to that her father, who loved nothing more than to disparage me, and you have a pretty bad situation.  I took it all way too personally and was probably far too invested in her future, but that was easy to do when you're living in a county with extremely high academic standards and her teachers were breathing down my neck.  It's easy to look back after the fact and see the mistakes you made, but acknowledging those mistakes with my daughter doesn't appear to be having a positive effect.  When she says she doesn't know how to have a deeper adult relationship with me, she's probably remembering how close we were and thinks that should be the minimum standard.  Either way, her feelings appear to be hardening with time and I have no clue what to do about it.  I really appreciate your perspective.

No easy answers here and I’m sorry. Wise minds have given you great advice. 

Under the heading of easier said than done I wonder if not looking at call and text logs would be helpful.  There isn’t much to gain for your happiness (which matters!) to see if she talked to her dad or was at the wrong part of town at a late hour. 

I was raised by any definition wonderful parents who would then and now do anything for me. Around 18 I started hanging out with a less than desirable crowd. I got into trouble, my grades fell and I had zero fucks to give for anyone but myself and a good time. 

I don’t know specifics, maybe from selective forgetfulness or substance driven but I was horrible to them and absolutely blew off and ruined occasions like birthdays. Or maybe I’d show up acting like I was doing them a favor, massively hungover, and leave early. 

They aren’t the tough love variety, and cell phones weren’t like they are today, so they’d just not hear from me. Had it been today on a call no doubt I’d hit the ignore button. 

While they weren’t tough love and always had a warm bed and meal when I like a loser showed up, that’s not what got me. My poor decision making finally caught up with me and I dealt with  true consequences around my mid 20s. Of nearly every aspect of my life. And I turned around. 

I was still a jerk I feel until around my mid 30s. Something changed and I really don’t know what- late maturity?. No doubt my wonderful parents (which you  by all readings a wonderful mom) were a backbone for me and I knew better. But it took life knocking me down to get my act together. 

I say that to say our paths often go a way our parents never intended but it can and I believe often works out. My sister was raised by same parents and I think her worst infraction might have been she said “damn” once. Sometimes I wonder if they wished they had stopped at her!

[Mindthinkr]

I think most of us can take a look back at our lives and had a “If I knew then what I know now the mistakes I wouldn’t have made” moment. (That’s from a Savoy Brown lyric and that statement always has resonated with me.) 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mindthinkr
Added one word.

[KnoxForPres]

15 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

I think most of us can take a look back at our lives and had a “If I knew then what I know now the mistakes I wouldn’t have made”. (That’s from a Savoy Brown lyric and that statement always has resonated with me.) 

Absolutely.  If we all had the gift of future. Even today at work I had an issue where I’ll never do x again.  Now I know  

But I think that’s it. For people like me and @Suzy Rhapsody daughter we need a swift kick in the ass of the real world variety to see. Parents loving sometimes just isn’t enough. So much ego.

[VioletNevermind]

@KnoxForPres Thank you for your thoughts.  I've had nearly two weeks since my last posting to really think about this situation from all angles.  My takeaways are these: 1. We were probably way too close, 2. I cared about/invested in her future far more than she did/does, and 3. I allowed the nonsense with her father to get to me when I should have reached down deep and found the will to ignore it (easier said than done, but still).  I sit here, 10 months after her departure, and have only just now started to focus on myself.  Kind of.  The important thing is that I'm doing much better at not focusing on her.  The holidays will be here before we know it and I have to start to prepare myself now for the multiple painful moments on the horizon.  It's unfortunate that my daughter is running wild and no one on her father's side of her family gives enough of a crap to even try to guide her back onto the right path.  Still, at the end of the day, I did my job to the best of my ability, given my limited means.

Her baby cousin's second birthday party is tomorrow and my sister-in-law invited her, so she has asked for a ride to go with me.  Of course, I've agreed.  It will be the first family gathering she's attended in nearly three years and the first time in a year that she's seen any of my family.  She looks, sounds, and acts very different from the last time they saw her, so it should be an interesting experience for all of us.  Several months ago, I would have used the 30-minute car ride there and back as a therapy session, trying to "reconnect" with her and expecting everything to improve from that day forward.  I would have also expected her to want to spend the night at my new house (she's hardly been there this year and never spent the night, despite the fact that I have a bedroom for her).  I know better now.  I'll keep it light and breezy in the car, maybe play some music, then take her back to her father's without even asking if she wants to spend the night.  We're very much like acquaintances right now and it's way past time that I accepted it and continue to focus on what I want and need for the first time in my damn life.  I have permitted her to treat me like crap, but those days have drawn to a close.  One thing is for sure: I can't and won't be the one to deliver that swift kick in the ass that she desperately needs.  If no one in her father's family will do it (and they won't), life will take care of it.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Suzy Rhapsody

[Mindthinkr]

@Suzy Rhapsody I’m glad to hear that you are beginning to think more about yourself and coming to terms with your family issue. Silence can be deafening. Leave it to her to choose what conversation she wants to have with you in the car. She will probably be prepared to listen to one of your Mom chats and it will throw her off when it doesn’t happen. 

 I hope you have a good time at the party. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mindthinkr
It was missing a word.

[Bastet]

@Suzy Rhapsody, when you get down, I think you should go back through this thread and read, in chronological order, all the posts you have made about your daughter, because the trajectory of the way you think about and approach the situation has been forward.  Slow is to be expected; what matters is you're moving in the right direction, and you have been.  So it might help you sometimes to review the progress you've made since you first raised the issue here; in a low moment, that may build you up that you will continue to make progress and it will get better.

[KnoxForPres]

I am encouraged by your post @Suzy Rhapsody!  Sending nothing but positive and loving thoughts your way!

[hoosier80]

Wow.  Reading the posts about the daughters who do not call, don't come around, and the mothers' who are trying to reconnect and work stuff how blows my mind.  I have the exact opposite thing going on currently.  I call my mom every day.  I visit her on a regular basis, cleaning her house, etc.  She'll tell me I do it grudgingly, and yes, she is correct on that.  Why?  Because everything I say or do is wrong.  

Labor Day visit wasn't horrible.  I had hopes that we were at least on a 'being civil' level.  Nope.  Every other day (on the phone) she rants at me.  The mute button is my friend.

Went there last weekend.  From the start, it was bad.  She is so nervous that we won't be ready for church (leave around 3:30 p.m. for a 4:30 p.m. service).  This is the latest church in her "church shopping".  I got there around 12:30 to 1 p.m.  I had to help her get dressed.  I almost asked how do you do anything when I'm not around (she acts totally helpless, which she is not - she does have dexterity issues, but does nothing or seeks out nothing to alleviate it).  She truly wants me to wait on her hand and foot.  I OWE HER.  So I'm ready well ahead of the deadline, but she'd had one big meltdown before that - this is why I've said I should not be alone! (She had knocked over a cane I think).  

Rest of the evening is okay-ish.  So I get up at the crack of dawn on Sunday, and got a few things done before she got up.  She then wanted me to make her breakfast, so fine.  She had me bring her food (every meal) to her easy chair - getting to the dining room table is so much work.  Ok, whatever.  So I begin vacuuming.  She then gets on phone with her golden child, motioning (over the top) for me to stop.  I motioned back (I was very pissed off, but I shouldn't have done that).  It set her off.  I continued cleaning her bathrooms, kitchen.  She fell asleep in her chair, for at least an hour.  She then told me I cleaned using the wrong stuff (she doesn't like Swiffer cloths! - but I used a steam mop).  She started ragging on me for everything, and then I said well do  you want to do something this afternoon?  Nope.  Ok, well I'm not sticking around to be yelled at for hours.  Then she said she wanted for me to sit down and for us to have a conversation.  My bad - I actually responded when she started speaking.  She really wanted to just lecture me - and rant at me.  She was bawling because I was so mean and hateful.  I honestly don't recall what I said that was so hateful.  I just didn't say there, there you poor thing, so that's being mean, I guess.  Oh, she said I was odd, she didn't understand me, I was crazy, I was selfish, I was lazy (basically).  She'd said did you see that woman in church - how SHE took care of HER father?  I said ok, I get it, I don't take care of you, I'm rotten.  "I never said that".  Then a kicker.  I didn't care enough about her feelings when my dad passed.  I said I was a kid (13).  You were almost 14 and that's not a child.  Uh, it's a minor.  Nope.  I should've gotten a job, and seen about my food and my clothing.  Shouldn't have been on her.  Actually, it is by law.  She hates when I tell her that!  I was an adult in her eyes.  

Finally, she relented and said she wanted to go out and do some shopping.  Ok.  I sat in one room while she got ready and she went into her diatribe of everything that'd ever gone wrong, and that was all she'd wanted.  She got her attention.

So I leave, and this week has been hell with her when I call.  She's up and down.  She asked one night, why do I call her?  To see if she's ok.  Oh she wondered because I do not talk, plus she knows I hate her.  I don't really talk because she will:  1.  talk over me, 2.  tell me what I'm talking about is boring, 3.  change the subject, saying she doesn't care about that, or 4. say she's tired and end the call.  She doesn't really care about what I have to say, so why bother.

This morning she calls, so I'm like oh it's big news in her town or a rant.  Yep, rant.  She wanted to thank me for making her life so miserable.  I said ok.  I said well let me sell my house and move there, so I can live with you.  Nope, that's water under the bridge, too late now.  Ok, so what is the point?  What do you want from me?  No response.  I said well, have a nice day and hung up.  I'm just numb at this point.  I blocked her number so any rants will go to voice mail, and the messages are epic.  She's now saying I hate her, no I don't, but I'm not liking her one bit.  Who would like someone who continually puts them down?  She says she never does that, although one visit long ago, where she had me sobbing with her jabs, said she had to 'bring me down a peg or two every once in a while because I had a big head and thought I was somebody'.  I told a friend that phrase and she said you are somebody.  

Selfish, sure I can be selfish.  I really think long and hard about what she tells me because I'm far from perfect.  I've been more selfish as she gets more out of control because you can only take so much.    I am the root cause of everything wrong with her life, which I know I'm not.  Everyone has free will and can choose their path (somewhat).  

I am seriously thinking of going no contact.  She will continue to call, but I do not have to answer.  We'll see how it goes.  I'm past the point of crying, but it still upsets me.   I'm thinking the mood swings could be onset of dementia or depression. She refuses to see a doctor, so I can't get her help.  I'm thinking of looking for a counselor for me though.   

Thanks for letting me rant.  Friends are tired of hearing this stuff; believe me I'm tired of it - beyond tired.  Any suggestions welcomed.  

[BookWoman56]

@hoosier80, I think your instinct to go “no contact” with your mother is the best solution, along with seeking therapy for yourself. Any mother who seriously suggests that at age 13, you should have gotten a job and assumed responsibility for your own basic needs that she was in fact responsible for, has no moral authority to make demands of your time and feelings. 

You are doing things for your mother, who shows zero appreciation and instead criticizes everything you do. She is a toxic presence in your life, and from what you’ve said, this is nothing new. Yes, she might have some dementia but her actions don’t seem radically different from her previous behavior. 

As people get older, sometimes it seems as if the filters just come off, and they reveal their true thoughts. For example, it’s a standing joke in my family that my mother is incredibly self-centered. I had to travel for work last week, and arranged for my younger sister to come stay with my mother while I was gone. My mother’s last comment to me before I left was to drive carefully, because if something happened to me, there’s nobody to take care of her. That’s not really true but a good indication of what her priorities are. My siblings and I laughed about it, and agreed that the only surprise about her remark is that she said it aloud. Her filters are gone. In her case, I have to weigh the annoyance of her self-centeredness against the rest of our relationship. From a holistic perspective, she was a reasonably good parent. But I don’t get that sense with your mother, or at least there’s the sense that even if she did the normal parenting things, she did so resentfully, and at this point, you don’t owe her anything. You have freely given of your time and energy, and apparently gotten only verbal abuse in return. It’s time to minimize her presence in your life, and focus on your own needs and wants. This is not a healthy relationship, and you need to change how it works or end it before it harms you more than it already has. 

[emma675]

hoosier80, cut. her. off.

Seriously, no contact, don't listen to her voicemails, don't go visit her. You owe her nothing, you've gone above and beyond with no reciprocation. If this woman was a friend, not a blood relative, would you allow her to treat you like this? Just because she gave birth to you doesn't mean she's allowed to own you and treat you like shit. You deserve better.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, hoosier80 said:

I am seriously thinking of going no contact. 

Stop thinking about it and do it.

I encouraged another poster to reread her posts in this thread to see the progress she has made in dealing with her troubled relationship, and now I'll encourage you to also reread yours in chronological order to see that not one damn thing has changed in all this time.  And this has obviously been going on a hell of a lot longer than you've been posting about it.  You cannot change your mother's attitude and behavior, and at this point she almost certainly will never change it herself no matter what anyone says or does.  Your only control is over your own actions, and you need to change those, drastically, or you'll still be posting the same stories until she dies (and things won't be magically rosy then). 

It is unconscionable what she has done and continues to do to you, and that prolonged damage + your own conflicting feelings + societal expectations = the understandable difficulty you've been having in washing your hands of her.  But it's the best thing to do.

[Scatterbrained]

Ugh!  

This is what I really want to say to a user-loser family member who is hinting around for more money and/or to be taken care of: if you had WORKED for a living then you wouldn’t be in this position!!!

Background for context: this person only ever had a job given to them by family members.  Quit working at 35 “just because” (more or less) and REFUSED to get another job.  

This person had a lot of enablers.  I’ve never been one of them.  We did help with some medical bills, but that’s it.  

I just hate the diplomatic dance I feel I have to do every time I am about to attend a family function.  Ugh!  Ugh!  Ugh!

[BookWoman56]

2 hours ago, Scatterbrained said:

Ugh!  

This is what I really want to say to a user-loser family member who is hinting around for more money and/or to be taken care of: if you had WORKED for a living then you wouldn’t be in this position!!!

Background for context: this person only ever had a job given to them by family members.  Quit working at 35 “just because” (more or less) and REFUSED to get another job.  

This person had a lot of enablers.  I’ve never been one of them.  We did help with some medical bills, but that’s it.  

I just hate the diplomatic dance I feel I have to do every time I am about to attend a family function.  Ugh!  Ugh!  Ugh!

Why do you need to be “diplomatic” about it? If asked for money/assistance, a simple “No, I’m not comfortable doing that” should suffice. If pressed for a reason, then “You’re in this position as a result of your own decisions and actions, and it’s not my responsibility to bail you out” could work. Bottom line, when someone is asking you for something you don’t want to give, you can simply refuse the request for any reason you may have. You’re not obligated to provide help, and you’re not obligated to defend your decision. 

[VioletNevermind]

On 10/11/2019 at 3:48 PM, Bastet said:

@Suzy Rhapsody, when you get down, I think you should go back through this thread and read, in chronological order, all the posts you have made about your daughter, because the trajectory of the way you think about and approach the situation has been forward.

@Bastet Thank you, I think so, too.  I’ve been reminding myself that I can’t rush this process.   My entire life changed in the space of less than one year.  That will take a minute to adjust to, especially for someone like me, who is not a fan of change.  As difficult as this year has been on every level, I have to admit that I’ve met every challenge.  It’s time to give myself a little credit!

So, last weekend was mostly lovely.  The ride to the party was stressful and awkward, to say the least.  I actually had to (calmly!) ask her at one point if she would prefer that I drop her back off at her dad’s if she didn’t feel that she could be basically courteous to me.  She was clearly taken aback by my newfound confidence and grumbled that, no, she didn’t want to go back.  She followed that up with asking if people were going to bring birthday presents for her, too (can you believe we’re still talking about this?!).  I realized in that moment how immature she still is.  She may be chronologically 19, but she’s about 14 in terms of maturity.  I’ve been expecting way too much from her.  I reminded her that this was her baby cousin’s second birthday party, not hers.

When we got to the house, she saw her grandparents and immediately burst into tears.  It’s been a year since she spent any time with them or even talked to them.  About halfway through the party, she came over and sat next to me.  Her pride had prevented her from making any outward overtures toward me that day, so I took it the rest of the way for her.  I asked if she wanted to go for a quick walk so we could talk.  She agreed right away.  We walked around for about 30 minutes, talking about her plans and her life, even the bad stuff.  I kept the “mom talk” to a minimum.  We both agreed that we sincerely want to improve our relationship and transcend the events of the last couple of years.  I realize now that she’s going to have to grow up a little bit (and probably become a mom) before she understands why I made certain decisions.  She said she wanted to spend the night at my house and I eagerly agreed.  Over the next couple of hours, while I was making mental plans for the movies we would watch that night, she got a better offer when her drug friend called her and asked to “hang out later.”  I gritted my teeth and did not allow it to impact the rest of the day.  Honestly, my daughter is kind of rude right now and I’m just going to have to accept it and work around it to have any hope of moving forward with our relationship.  That doesn’t mean that I have to allow myself to be treated poorly.

At the end of the night, I took her back to her father’s house and she wanted to linger in the parking lot to talk.  His townhouse, situated between two cheery-looking, brightly lit homes, was completely dark at 8:15.  He goes to bed every night before 8 (a really exciting guy).  She said she feels sometimes like she made a mistake dropping out of school and moving out of my home and that her father’s house doesn’t feel like home.  She said that she feels like she travels back in time 70 years when she’s there because there’s no dishwasher, microwave, TV, cable, computer, WiFi, or even a freezer.  To my credit, I did not remind her that he and his house have always been that way, even when I was married to him, so she knew that going in.  At least it explains why she spends as many nights as she can “out” with “friends.”  I remained neutral and just listened so she didn’t think I was trying to convince her to move back in.  Before she went inside, we had both cried and hugged each other like a scene out of The Notebook (minus the passionate kissing, haha).

We have spoken either by text, phone, or FaceTime every day for a week now.  She has been the one to reach out first 75% of that time.  It’s clear to me that she genuinely wants to improve our relationship, at least at this moment.  Last weekend was a Bandaid that we had to rip off in order to move forward as mother and daughter with a minimum of dysfunction.  It will not be perfect and she still has a very long way to go, but I’m much closer to accepting the fact that she should not live with me and it’s past time to focus on myself.  Again, thank you all for your thoughts and advice.  It truly does help.

(Oh, and my own damn birthday is next month.  I’ve invited her to share it with me and celebrate together with her family.  She was thrilled.  I’m beyond done talking about birthdays this year!)

Edited October 19, 2019 by Suzy Rhapsody

[Sun-Bun]

@hoosier80, your post really got to me(among so many others here: congrats on making such recent strides with your daughter, @Suzy Rhapsody!), because your situation with your mother sounds so eerily similar to my own. Ditto @BookWoman56. I’m starting to wonder if it’s a generational thing that many older Baby Boomers seem to display, because her usual self-centeredness/Only Child Syndrome kicked into overdrive as soon as she hit her 70’s. 
 

This is a woman who has told me on numerous occasions that she only had kids(my brother is the “golden child”) because she didn’t want to be alone/wanted someone to take care of her when she was old. I never even knew my father because he split forever when I was a baby; sometimes I can understand why because my parents both were selfish only children, so how could it have possibly worked between them anyway?
 

Backstory here:
When my brother was a teenager he was Hell. Got violent, hooked on drugs, in and out of the juvie, stole money, nearly dropped out of HS twice...he also sexually molested me repeatedly for a few years, and I’ve never admitted it to mom because I doubt she’d believe me and he’d likely deny it.

Meanwhile I was the kid who went out of my way to do well—I was a model student, got two degrees, have had a good teaching career for over 15 years, have a great marriage. Currently working my ass off going to grad school on my spare time for a Masters.
But because the golden child finally wised up and has stayed clean/employed for the past 15 years, has been celibate for a few years now and does many things to cater to my mom(including handling her banking and living for free in my late grandma’s house/estate because my mom doesn’t want to deal with selling it), I’m the lesser one. I’m the one she’ll call when she’s bored or needs amusement or when the golden child yells at her, whatever.

When I offer to do things for her or help or spend time with her, she mostly brushes me off. I try to go to see her and/or go to lunch with her at least once a week, but I often dread it because she usually uses that time as an excuse to get drunk and then ask me really awkward, inappropriate questions. Or I’ll get her home and she’ll have a drunken accident after I leave.

But when I try to enjoy what little spare time I have with friends/in-laws(go out of town, attend events, etc) otherwise, she'll call and yell horrible things at me, tell me how selfish I am, and throws my unaccepted attempts to do more for her otherwise right back at my face. 

She’s said/done all sorts of crazy things to my friends and husband over the years, things that sound weird and otherwise insane to anyone else. Called my husband at work, left ugly voicemails with him for stupid reasons, etc. I continue to forgive and try to move on from such odd moves, but I can’t forget. My husband and I have even tried to travel with her over the years, but that ends up backfiring on us when she somehow finds something random to pick a fight with us over and ruins the whole trip.

Yet I STILL try my best to have a healthy relationship with both she and my brother because they’re the only blood I have left, but some days I really struggle to understand why I bother.
They’re such a toxic presence in my otherwise happy life. It’s like the happier I am, the more my mom guilts me into how selfish I am and how I don’t do enough for her. Or my brother shittalks about my husband and me behind my back to her. 

I call her every day just to show I care and want to check on her(she mostly doesn’t care what I have to say since it’s just an excuse for her to talk at me all about her), but if I happen to mention I’m going somewhere or doing something for my self-care, she rages at me over what a spendthrift I am and I’ll “never have anything.”(my husband and I struggle sometimes financially, but we make do and are comfortable; I never ask her for money, but golden child has no problem asking for random ready handouts) This comes from the woman who never worked over a year of her life since my grandmother bought her everything she ever wanted throughout her adult life.

Now that mom’s gotten older and more accident-prone, she expects both my brother and me to drop everything at any time for her...I’ll do that when I can, but my free-time is precious and I also need self-care with my husband for my own sanity’s sake, but she’ll never understand that.
My brother just ghosts her and lies about where he is when he’s tired of dealing with her. I’m honest to a fault and will tell her sometimes that I’m sorry, but I’ll have to assist her later when I’m back in town(husband and I are avid travelers/hikers). Then she’ll berate me again, tell me how selfish I am and that I’m “cut off” from “her legacy”(aka her mom’s money), lather, rinse, repeat.

I’m 42, she’s 75...I’m exhausted of living like this. I’m tired of being made to feel like I’m selfish for having an active life of my own when I’m not constantly working. Because I’m ChildFree, she assumes that I have all this extra time/money, which is hardly the case. 
 

Yes, I know I have more issues than a newsstand and should’ve considered therapy yearsssss ago. I can’t find it in my heart to cut either her or my brother completely off, and I’ll never really know why...I tried to suggest family therapy with them years ago and that went about as well as expected, so here I am, just left to ramble with kind strangers here since my friends are tired of hearing it. 
 

So to those of you still reading, thanks for that. I’ve commented here before on my many family issues, and just getting a forum to share/vent really helps clear my mind a bit, especially having just gotten off the phone with mom as she told me to leave her alone forever and just only check in with her monthly(me leaving for a day to go on a hiking trip with friends while she was stuck home with a raging bout of diarrhea apparently warranted such a reaction).

[BookWoman56]

@Sun-Bun, stop feeling guilty about wanting your own life. Your mother had children for her own selfish purposes, and you’re not responsible for her choices. Maintain whatever contact you are comfortable with, and resist the impulse to give in to the various guilt trips she lays for you. 

My mother is 91 and has dementia, so I am willing to cut her a little slack on her being so self-centered, and if I consider the entire relationship we’ve had, it’s fairly good with some pain points here and there. But your situation sounds quite different. And in my own relationship with my parents, my regrets are mostly around putting their wishes above mine, so I spent way too many holidays and vacations visiting them instead of doing things I would have preferred. Don’t fall into that trap any more than you already have. It’s your life, not your mother’s or brother’s. 

[Sun-Bun]

10 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

@Sun-Bun, stop feeling guilty about wanting your own life. Your mother had children for her own selfish purposes, and you’re not responsible for her choices. Maintain whatever contact you are comfortable with, and resist the impulse to give in to the various guilt trips she lays for you. 

My mother is 91 and has dementia, so I am willing to cut her a little slack on her being so self-centered, and if I consider the entire relationship we’ve had, it’s fairly good with some pain points here and there. But your situation sounds quite different. And in my own relationship with my parents, my regrets are mostly around putting their wishes above mine, so I spent way too many holidays and vacations visiting them instead of doing things I would have preferred. Don’t fall into that trap any more than you already have. It’s your life, not your mother’s or brother’s. 

Thanks, @BookWoman56: wise words all around!! And I appreciate you guys allowing me to spout my endless pity-party above. Felt better to get some of that shit out, that’s for damned sure. Today feels like a much fresher start, at least.

[PRgal]

I don't know if I've brought this up before, but my mom has been VERY critical of what I'm feeding my son.  My husband and I aren't plant-based, but I've been trying to make some of my son's meals vegetarian.  Like lentils and quinoa with greens, for example.  My mom claims that he isn't getting enough nutrients/protein.  She doesn't believe that lentils + quinoa = complete protein.  My son has transitioned to cow's milk, so it's important that he get iron.  Lentils have a lot of iron.  He doesn't NEED beef (we don't really eat much red meat as a family.  Family, meaning my husband, my son and me).  I'm really sure she thinks I'm starving the boy.  Both my mom and dad think I'M not eating enough (because many of my meals are plants only) and that's contributed to my "health issues."  My son is 1.  He can't really talk yet, but in a few months, I'm sure he'd be "Poh Poh, I LIKE!!" ("Maternal grandma, I LIKE!") - meaning the food I'm feeding him.    I mean, I haven't given him much that is super-processed.  The only things that come out of a package are baby cereal and teething cookies/crackers.  

[mbaywife123]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

I don't know if I've brought this up before, but my mom has been VERY critical of what I'm feeding my son.  My husband and I aren't plant-based, but I've been trying to make some of my son's meals vegetarian.  Like lentils and quinoa with greens, for example.  My mom claims that he isn't getting enough nutrients/protein.  She doesn't believe that lentils + quinoa = complete protein.  My son has transitioned to cow's milk, so it's important that he get iron.  Lentils have a lot of iron.  He doesn't NEED beef (we don't really eat much red meat as a family.  Family, meaning my husband, my son and me).  I'm really sure she thinks I'm starving the boy.  Both my mom and dad think I'M not eating enough (because many of my meals are plants only) and that's contributed to my "health issues."  My son is 1.  He can't really talk yet, but in a few months, I'm sure he'd be "Poh Poh, I LIKE!!" ("Maternal grandma, I LIKE!") - meaning the food I'm feeding him.    I mean, I haven't given him much that is super-processed.  The only things that come out of a package are baby cereal and teething cookies/crackers.  

Unless your mom lives with or eats daily meals with you the only way she is finding out what you and family are eating is if you tell her.

Stop telling her or give vague answers or little white lies about your meals that you know will make her happy and stop the criticism.