S03.E20: The Fallen

[Password]

I was just thinking of Oliver and Thea's goodbye. WH seemed so young and innocent that it really seemed like she's his little sister. Even the adorable way she asked "aren't you coming?" (correct me if I'm wrong) seemed so well delivered.

[BkWurm1]

Willa deserves a lot of praise for what she did.  That innocence coupled with her brother's gentleness toward her just about broke me.  After she is out of sight, you see Oliver just break and spin around and grip the back of his head like he can't handle it. 

[millahnna]

That may be one of the most awkward love scenes I've ever seen. Poor EBR looked soooooo uncomfortable in that "actor doing first love scene" kind of way (and they are awkward as fuck, so no judgment here). I wish she 'd been able to make it seem like it was the character who was uncomfortable but oh well. Next one will be better. Seriously, I was physically uncomfortable for her while watching. Kind of killed my Olicity feels but then the writing that went into them being in love in the first place was weird as hell (and strangely rushed and drug out at the same time) and I ignored that so I'll get over this, too.

[BkWurm1]

I'm so glad I didn't have that reaction, lol. Actually I was impressed by how natural and real it seemed. I was watching faces very closely and yeah, I'm very happy with the acting.

Edited April 24, 2015 by BkWurm1

[millahnna]

I was fine with it until the straddle carry. Back on the bed got better but I could still tell ebr was uncomfortable. Expert fanwanker, though so no big.

[tarotx]

I thought the sex scene was sweet. It seemed to be of two people in love. This was also their real first act together. They are friends who are going for more. They want to take care of each other though know this is it. It's sweet but there is a little sadness.

Edited April 24, 2015 by tarotx

[Morrigan2575]

I was fine with it until the straddle carry. Back on the bed got better but I could still tell ebr was uncomfortable. Expert fanwanker, though so no big.

She didn't seem uncomfortable to me, but it's all a matter of perception.

[tv echo]

MG's clarifications about this episode at http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

prettylittleliarrow asked:
is there a chance you would ever release the uncut olicity sex scene ? :) i'm sure we would all donate to a good cause or something like we did for the fern footage!
That was uncut.

f4llings asked:
Marc, we were once said that Thea was like a "little sister" to Laurel. So could you tell me why she wasn't aware of what happened to her? And why did you cut off the scene that she's in the airport with the rest?
Both your questions have the same related answer:  Each episode is only 42 minutes long.  That means that each week, we have to make hard choices about what to include and what to leave out, what to film and what to cut.  In the case of Laurel finding out about Thea, that would mean at least one additional scene where Laurel had to be told about Thea – which means a whole scene about a character getting information the audience already has.  It’s not efficient.  Similarly, the airport scene was just cut for time.  It happens to all the characters and isn’t a reflection of anything other than our time limitations.

silverliningsbloog asked:
Hi Marc, it's me again, I have an other question about last night episode, how can Thea not remember that her brother is still alive, but do remember that Malcom is her father ? Because if we are a little bit logic, let's guess she just remember ... last year for exemple, okay, she does discover her father is marcom, but she should also know that her mother is dead... So, I don't get it ... Can you give me a better explanation please ? Thank you !
Her head was completely screwed up by the Lazarus pit.  She remembered Malcolm, but didn’t remember hating him.

Edited April 24, 2015 by tv echo

[Chaser]

I get Thea's brains were scrambled but it was really weird. I don't remember I have a brother, but I remember Malcolm is my father, but I don't remember hating him. I remember my mother, but don't remember she is dead. WHAT ABOUT ROBERT?

 

It really bugs me that no one remembers Robert.

[kismet]

I get Thea's brains were scrambled but it was really weird. I don't remember I have a brother, but I remember Malcolm is my father, but I don't remember hating him. I remember my mother, but don't remember she is dead. WHAT ABOUT ROBERT?

 

It really bugs me that no one remembers Robert.

Or Walter? Really the writers have dropped so many balls this season on the forced fatherdom of MM.

 

But on the other hand, when I watched the scene after first being appalled it also made me think that perhaps whatever drugs he gave Thea somehow influenced how Thea would do post LP. I do not trust MM, so I always think he is doing something far more sinister & planning contingency upon contingency. So he must have known that at some point Thea going into the pit was a strong possibility. I wonder if this is part of masterplan? Of course, I am probably over-analyzing the situation & giving MM/writers far more credit than they deserve.

 

Excuse my naivety, but I just want MM to be more than what he appears to be now. I want him to have ulterior motives and be hatching the next phase of his plan. I just want this half-asssed redemption arc to be more than just the writers trying to find ways to writer JB into the story. Even if that was not their intention, I hope they get it together for him in s4.

[BkWurm1]

She didn't seem uncomfortable to me, but it's all a matter of perception.

It's not like I haven't in the past talked myself past an actor looking uncomfortable (there was one show I used to watch where the actor wiped off his mouth EVERY time he kissed his romantic lead and sometimes forgot to take off his real life wedding ring and  it's still one of my all time favorite pairings)  but I didn't have to do that for either SA or EBR even in the teeniest tiniest way.  For me the actors melted away and it was just the characters.    

Edited April 24, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Password]

I agree when Oliver and Felicity have their Olicity moments I see no trace of SA or EBR. It all melts away.

The only time I see traces of SA is when Oliver smiles big of makes a funny.

[SonofaBiscuit]

It's not like I haven't in the past talked myself past an actor looking uncomfortable (there was one show I used to watch where the actor wiped off his mouth EVERY time he kissed his romantic lead and sometimes forgot to take off his real life wedding ring and  it's still one of my all time favorite pairings)  but I didn't have to do that for either SA or EBR even in the teeniest tiniest way.  For me the actors melted away and it was just the characters.    

 

Well you can't just type stuff like that and not let us know who you're talking about!  My curiosity is piqued!

[moviewhore]

I think SA's work in this episode shows he's a good actor.   I was so impressed with him and I was almost crying seeing him so upset at the hospital. 

 

The only part I hated in this one was Malcolm saying how much he loved Thea even after he mindraped her.  That was bullshit.  He's manipulating her as always. 

 

I was pretty jealous of Emily in that sex scene.  That was sweet and hot all at once.  And I felt bad for Ray, which is unreal because I can't stand him usually.

[BkWurm1]

Well you can't just type stuff like that and not let us know who you're talking about!  My curiosity is piqued!

 Remington Steele, Pierce Brosnan.   Not so much the first season. 

Edited April 24, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Delphi]

Im not a fanboy & I love JB. But man have they seriously messed up his storyline this season!! Even I was calling bullshit when Thea woke up and remembered that Ollie was dead but Malcolm was her father. It doesn't even make sense in the timeline. I know she was supposed to be confused. But still that felt like the writers attempt to make us feel some empathy which I just can't in MM's case. He literally set in motion everything that happened to Thea. I can empathize with some villains on unfortunate or bad choices they made or bad things that happened to them. But I just can't do that for MM. He needs to be a villain you love to hate, instead he is just barely a villain that just runs around getting away without any punishment for the crimes he did. At least, remind us that he has an immunity deal (is hes does) or something so I don't think even less of the criminal justice system (or lack thereof) in SC.

Being dead should it be the ultimate immunity though, right? No one is supposed to know that he's alive. At first it was just Moira, then the league and then Thea and team Arrow. I'm not so perplexed by the lack of punishment, but I don't care how deep his pockets run, no one ever asks why a corpse walking around the city.

[calliope1975]

I actually have a question for you guys... While Felicity's plan on drugging Oliver and smuggling out of NP was ridiculously stupid, were any of you 'horrified' by her actions by actually drugging Oliver? I know for some people it would cause issues because drugging people even if it's for a good cause isn't the way to go. 

 

I understand where people who are coming from who are upset about it because so much agency has been repeatedly been taken away from characters this year. It didn't bother me though, because for me, in this case, intent matters. Felicity was desperately trying to save her friend. Just as she and Digg tried to do last year when Oliver was hellbent on sacrificing himself to Slade. Malcolm drugged Thea because he is a sick, psychotic fuckhead who shouldn't be allowed around people. 

[nksarmi]

 Remington Steele, Pierce Brosnan.   Not so much the first season. 

You know I never noticed that about him, but I did love that show.

[statsgirl]

Even with the trailer being so good, I sort of didn't want to see the love scene because I've seen too many interviews with SA and EBR as people and I didn't want to think of them in the scene. But they sold me that it was really Oliver and Felicity so good for them.  Although the point where she has to brace herself on her hands so that he can sit up sweeping her back with him pulled me out of it a little.

 

It shocked me when Felicity drugged Oliver but I think the episode was supposed to show Felicity regaining her agency after all the complaints this season about her being Palmer's doormat so she got to tell Oliver it wasn't his decision if she goes with him to Nanda Parbat, got to tell off both Ra's and Malcolm, and drug Oliver in a desperate attempt because she couldn't bear to lose him.  Kickass Felicity returns, hopefully to help save Oliver from the LoA.

[Happy Harpy]

The O/F sex (you had to live under a rock to ignore it was going to happen) wasn't enough to lure me back, because of the coyness of the promo that went around it. But legit O/F sex and love and Team Arrow? I watched my first episode since the November Flarrow.

 

And I'm glad I did, because Felicity Smoak is awesome. Awesome, awesome, awesome. I'm so glad I spared myself all the OOC/propping new shiny toys Podlicity that seemingly took her place since, because the Felicity I saw was 100% the one I clicked with, along with Oliver, back in 1x03 and fell in love with. Loved how she didn't take any bullshit from anyone. Loved how she bossed Malcolm around. Loved how supporting she was, how loving she was, how perfect yet not perfect (i.e, human) she was.

 

I'm glad I did because Team Arrow is awesome. x3, x5, x10 awesome. That's what I want to see. It's like Team Witnesses on Sleepy Hollow. Get me my weekly fix, and I'll watch even the most convoluted drivel faithfully.

So, I checked the spoilers to see if I could pencil back Arrow on my watchlist, and they intend to drive a wedge between Diggle/Oliver, this time? Well, then I'll pass. Wake me up when TIIC get they have a gold mine and need to exploit it the right way.

. And you know what's great about Team Arrow? It makes the show titled "Arrow" about its main character, Oliver Queen, and not about of a bunch of costumed wannabes. And thanks to S.Amell's portrayal, I love Oliver Queen and I think he's awesome.

 

So yes, I'm glad I did because wow, the acting. S.Amell and W.Holland, in particular, were incredible, with EBR and D.Ramsey not far behind. I really hope that Thea will finally be given an agency and a storyline worthy of her portrayer's acting chops. I loved the sisterly chemistry that I saw between W.Holland and EBR when Felicity supported Thea. 

 

I'm glad I did because Oliver/Felicity were everything they should be. Thankfully, the chemistry and the bond between the characters didn't suffer from the indignity the couple got through this season, being treated like another cliché will they/won't they, and watching the characters interact I could see all the reason why I fell for them in the first place, intact.  I loved their goodbye and morning after scenes even more than the sex.

The writing lacked once, imo, with the "it happened". Just like the pit jumping (see below), the tone was off. The lampshading was too obvious and it was out of place for me.

 

Otherwise:

-Ra's is indeed underwhelming, and I really don't like this grand-guignolesque LoA/Nanda Parbat thing. Thea jumping out of the pit would have been awesome if it had been a second degree B movie a la Kill Bill, but in the overly serious context, it was ridiculous and only the acting (by S.Amell and W.Holland) saved the scene, imo. But again, I'm not a comic or superheros fan and I miss the Arrow that was more grounded in reality (for all relative a reality that it was). The LoA was OK with me in S2, now that there's magic and so, blargh.

 

-I loved the Maseo/Diggle scene, and I like Maseo in present time, but I still couldn't care less about the flashbacks.

 

-Ray. Meh. Was that "Raylicity"? I found it blander than cottage cheese and more shallow than a Kardashian, especially with that gone on a whimper breakup (hell yeah!, though) suffering the comparison with the heartbreaking non-breakup between Oliver and Felicity. I've always thought the romantic pairing was a bad idea and that the character of Ray was mishandled from the start. And by the way, I find it completely disingenuous to throw a wedge into the Fan Preferred Couple, and get all righteously angry and surprised that many people don't like him and want him gone. Especially when the character is written is a risqué way, and that it makes the (arguably) most popular character behave in an OOC way, lose her agency and be cut from the heart of the show. Imo, if the problem with Ray was only ship-related, the criticism would have been the same as it mostly was when Sara was used as a roadblock in S2. It wasn't, so for me the problem is deeper. I didn't feel sorry for him, I didn't see why Felicity apologized because it wasn't as if she did the stalking, sorry, pursuing. He's just there and to me, he's out of place.

 

-Talking about being out of place, I see that nothing changed. They made Laurel the Black Canary, and yet it seems she's still irrelevant. The showrunner all but admits it, when he says there was no place for her scenes in the episode. A "game changing" episode, on top of it. Yep, I found the scene was 100% shoehorned. I didn't hate it, I had my Team Arrow fix so I just rolled my eyes since it was a "because Laurel has to be there somehow" scene for me. Laurel had to be informed about Oliver. Okay. It's important for Laurel, I guess, but how is it important for anyone else? I didn't see it. And imo, if they wanted a scene where Felicity breaks down but not in front of Thea and Diggle, it should have been Barry, who is imo her best friend after Diggle and Oliver, or Caitlin, who I think (?) went through losing her loved one, too. Moreover, Laurel's behavior  was affectionate and supportive on the paper, yet I didn't believe it for one minute because I saw no warmth, no affection acting-wise here.

 

And those characters that are irrelevant made me mourn for the ones who would have been relevant, and especially one. I couldn't agree more with about Moira. She should have been there. Those are my exact thoughts during the pit scene, "Moira should be here". She had contacted Ra's to tell him that Malcolm was alive, after all. She kind of sent the ball rolling. I could have seen her intervening in so many scenes, interacting with so many characters -Malcolm, above all. When I imagine what S.Thompson would have done in that Sophie's choice scenario, I missed her  more than ever and I can't but think that for all powerful and well-acted that her death was, it was a huge, huge mistake to kill her off.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[SmallScreenDiva]

There was one moment where Stephen kinda bled into Oliver. Or it might be more accurate to say Stephen remembered the show airs at 8 p.m.! It's at the very beginning of the straddle carry and I didn't notice this until after several rewinds :P Oliver goes for her ass to haul Felicity up and suddenly changes course, LOL!

 

[apinknightmare]

There was one moment where Stephen kinda bled into Oliver. Or it might be more accurate to say Stephen remembered the show airs at 8 p.m.! It's at the very beginning of the straddle carry and I didn't notice this until after several rewinds :P Oliver goes for her ass to haul Felicity up and suddenly changes course, LOL!

 

Haha, yeah, I thought that was a little weird that he carried her with just one leg hitched up.

[calliope1975]

That was a weird carry, but I don't care because of all the arm porn!

[kismet]

There was one moment where Stephen kinda bled into Oliver. Or it might be more accurate to say Stephen remembered the show airs at 8 p.m.! It's at the very beginning of the straddle carry and I didn't notice this until after several rewinds :P Oliver goes for her ass to haul Felicity up and suddenly changes course, LOL!

 

Missed that on the first gazillion times I had seen this clip in video & gif form. I always get distracted by what that right hand might be doing.

 

It is sorta funny when you slow/repeat it in gif form. I think he was going for a different acting choice. I wonder if he wanted a different moment from the straddle carry that seemed so awkward in the radioactive scene. It seemed like everyone wanted to make sure this scene barred no resemblance to that other scene. And they succeeded by leaps & bounds.

[Password]

I actually don't remember the Radioactive scene other than the straddling and standing in front of a curtain less window.

Did he grab Laurel's buttocks in the scene? Because it would've been interesting of he did here.

[apinknightmare]

Did he grab Laurel's buttocks in the scene? Because it would've been interesting of he did here.

 

No, he wrapped both his arms around her back and she jumped up and wrapped her legs around his waist.

[Password]

Missed opportunity.

[SleepDeprived]

There was one moment where Stephen kinda bled into Oliver. Or it might be more accurate to say Stephen remembered the show airs at 8 p.m.! It's at the very beginning of the straddle carry and I didn't notice this until after several rewinds :P Oliver goes for her ass to haul Felicity up and suddenly changes course, LOL!

 

I saw somewhere someone critiquing this part, saying that Felicity made it awkward 'cause she couldn't even jump onto Oliver right. Point in fact, Felicity did not jump Oliver. She was hauled upwards, somewhat suddenly and roughly, by eager beaver Oliver Queen. Who couldn't decide if he wanted to grab Felicity's ass or run his hands over her back and only managed to grab onto her upper thigh while making sure Felicity was plastered tightly to his chest. Good thing Felicity does 5 sit-ups every morning and was able to keep that other leg hitched up, herself, 'til they made it to the bed. That core strength ain't no joke, man.

[olicityfan25]

Where is the time count for each character in this episode? I love it when the poster who does the breakdown for each character. It's definitely interesting.

[wonderwall]

Basically Felicity in this episode:

 

 

 

LMAO I laughed so hard at this :p X

[kismet]

Rewatched the Diggle/Maseo scene. And man, Diggle does not mess around. He slammed everything Sarab stood for. And then when Maseo broke down & mentioned Akio, Diggle then after giving him some condolences he asked him if Akio would be proud of what Maseo was doing. That some serious throwdown. No wonder Maseo helped them. Yoda Diggle holds no bars when it comes to his truth smackdowns.

[Delphi]

Dig is like the fern he grows best with all the shade. No one throws shade like Diggle.

[kismet]

No, he wrapped both his arms around her back and she jumped up and wrapped her legs around his waist.

Really thought he helped hold her up. Goes to show you how little I actually remember that scene. Just remember the awkward LL jump on. I'm so glad OQ found another way when it came to Felicity. That carry was sweepingly romantic. Like SleepDeprived said there was no need for FS to jump on OQ, he was eagerly carrying her the entire way.

[Morrigan2575]

Where is the time count for each character in this episode? I love it when the poster who does the breakdown for each character. It's definitely interesting.

He/She's not doing them until the final episode and then will post all at once. Edited April 24, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Delphi]

Wasn't there a blooper from that Ollie/laurel sex scene where Stephen kinda drops Katie? I seem to recall that.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Wasn't there a blooper from that Ollie/laurel sex scene where Stephen kinda drops Katie? I seem to recall that.

 

Yup, misjudges the bed and they roll off it. Here

 

To stay on topic ... I love Diggle's scene with Maseo. I saw a side of Diggle I've never scene before: calculating and kinda vicious. I LOVE IT! When he asks for Maseo's son's name, he makes you think he's sorry for being harsh on Maseo, and then he goes and asks him what Akio would say if he sees his father now. *knife twist* LOVE. IT.

Edited April 24, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[Guest]

I loved the Diggle/Maseo scene but I also love the look on Diggle's face as they're all lowering Thea into the pit. It's like 'what is this nonsense?' Bahaha. He's so great with the expressions. Love DR.

[sweetreason]

Did it seem to anyone else that Felicity and Oliver's wardrobe mirrored each other during the love scene? Both were wearing black jeans, dark shirts, and jackets that seemed to be muted green. I'm hopeless, but I like thinking they were in sync. 

[millahnna]

There was one moment where Stephen kinda bled into Oliver. Or it might be more accurate to say Stephen remembered the show airs at 8 p.m.! It's at the very beginning of the straddle carry and I didn't notice this until after several rewinds :P Oliver goes for her ass to haul Felicity up and suddenly changes course, LOL!

That's the precise moment it all fell apart for me and she started to look uncomfortable. To me that read like Emily couldn't get the other leg in the right position so Stephen had the awkward/hot grope thing to help balance her. Which, actually is rather chrming in its own way. Edited April 25, 2015 by millahnna

[kismet]

That's the precise moment it all fell apart for me and she started to look uncomfortable. To me that read like Emily couldn't get the other leg in the right position so Stephen had the awkward/hot grope thing to help balance her. Which, actually is rather chrming in its own way.

Charming hot gropes are always welcome!! Honestly some of the awkwardness didn't bother me because it felt natural in the moment for a first time between 2 people. Especially when you consider the most physical thing they've done together so far has been hugs & chaste kiss. Their timing was bound to be a little awkward in the beginning. Now if its the same case next time then its different story.

[apinknightmare]

I put that one on Stephen, because how weird is it for him to anchor one leg but not the other? Seems like maybe that's what she was expecting and he decided against it at the last minute. 

[statsgirl]

tweets from the director about that scene:

 

Antonio Negret @antonionegret  ·  Apr 22

Everyone asks about this Olicity scene. In preparation for shooting, I just asked myself 'what would I do in this situation?'  ; )  #Arrow

 

For #Olicity I came to set with a very specific plan. But it was improved by @amellywood @EmilyBett & @SchwartzApprovd with brilliant ideas.

 

Full credit goes to @amellywood for the removal of the glasses. Nice touch. #Olicity #Arrow #TheFallen

[Guest]

Charming hot gropes are always welcome!! Honestly some of the awkwardness didn't bother me because it felt natural in the moment for a first time between 2 people. Especially when you consider the most physical thing they've done together so far has been hugs & chaste kiss. Their timing was bound to be a little awkward in the beginning. Now if its the same case next time then its different story.

 

Agreed. I thought the walk to the bed was a little awkward but it didn't take me out of the scene. I actually don't mind a little awkwardness in love scenes because it feels more realistic, particularly as this was their first time together. I like that Oliver (SA) didn't know where to put his hands and Felicity wasn't sure whether to wrap her legs around him. I like that it didn't feel choreographed. And as you said, the most they've done so far is one chaste kiss and hugs and shoulder touches. This was whole new territory. 

[NumberCruncher]

I chalk any awkwardness about Oliver picking Felicity up like that to sheer logistics.  After all, EBR has very short legs.  I imagine trying to wrap them around someone Stephen's size isn't all that easy.  It was probably much easier for Katie back in S1 because she's taller and longer legged.  I don't think it was a big deal or meant anything as to couple compatibility.

[wonderwall]

I actually appreciate that it was kind of awkward. I don't know if that was on purpose, but it was actually their first time with each other. And it's a first time that counts for A LOT. I get why they would be nervous and awkward and fumble. Oh well, that's just me. I actually thought it was really intimate and just really loved the scene.

[lemotomato]

I liked that their morning after scene was a little awkward too. Oliver was downright bashful, which was adorable. And all the dimpled smiling from the both of them! I really hope some day the show will lighten up a little and let the characters smile more than once or twice a season.

Edited April 25, 2015 by lemotomato

[Genki]

The "Morning After" scene felt a little weird to me because I was wondering why Oliver was staring at the moonlight FULLY DRESSED. Come on the guy was constantly shirtless around Felicity, and her couldn't get undressed fast enough during the sexing.

 

Once I realised it was to support Felicity's ruse storyline did i let it go. Just imagine Felicity trying to get Oliver dressed before the magic powder wore off. Or worse explain to Diggle why he needs to help her dress Oliver.

 

The overall Sex scene was so good that I can forgive a couple of moments which came across slightly as EBR and SA getting through the logistics of the scene.

I do however wish the Glasses removal was the further away shot form the promo.

[BkWurm1]

I liked that their morning after scene was a little awkward too. Oliver was downright bashful, which was adorable. And all the dimpled smiling from the both of them! I really hope some day the show will lighten up a little and let the characters smile more than once or twice a season.

I adore this scene.  It was brief but they are both so pink cheeked and smiley and smug in a pleased yet bashful way.  Simply adorable.

 

As to Oliver being dressed and staring out the window, I assumed there were two reasons, they were running out of time and he had to get dressed to remind himself that they didn't have time for something more and that he was looking out the window to give Felicity a little privacy as she cleaned up a little.  I didn't see any signs of indoor plumbing (apart from the hot tube) so I assume she had to make do with water in a basin somewhere still in the room. 

 

At least Ra's makes up for the lack of modern conveniences like running water and electricity with cute robes and comfy slippers (unless maybe that is what Felicity packed in the bag she brought with her into Nanda Parbat --- I like that better - that she kinda had this planned from before she ever left Starling)

Edited April 25, 2015 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

The "Morning After" scene felt a little weird to me because I was wondering why Oliver was staring at the moonlight FULLY DRESSED. Come on the guy was constantly shirtless around Felicity, and her couldn't get undressed fast enough during the sexing.

 

Once I realised it was to support Felicity's ruse storyline did i let it go. Just imagine Felicity trying to get Oliver dressed before the magic powder wore off. Or worse explain to Diggle why he needs to help her dress Oliver.

 

The overall Sex scene was so good that I can forgive a couple of moments which came across slightly as EBR and SA getting through the logistics of the scene.

Should have figured something was coming up with the toast. Really bummed I missed that clue. There was no way that boy was getting dressed unless plot dictated that he was gonna need to be carried around like a sack of potatoes in a few minutes.

 

Oh my goodness, what a funny scene that would have been if Diggle needed to come in and help dress Oliver. Could you imagine Diggle giving one of his classic, seriously? looks. It would have been priceless.

[millennium]

I feel like I ought to be searching for an "Unpopular Opinions" thread, because boy that was dreadful.

 

I am now convinced the writers are aiming at a 12-14-year-old female demographic. 

 

Congratulations to all who have been waiting so patiently for Oliver and Felicity to have sex, you finally got your heart's desire.

 

For those like me who tune in hoping for a decent storyline to equal the quality of Season 1, well, we're S.O.L.

 

The League is laughable.   Freemasons are more intimidating than the League of Assassins.   Oliver's branding and subsequent dress-up session played like some lame, quasi-homoerotic hazing ritual from Greek life.

 

Oliver's self-loathing and guilt are unbecoming in a so-called hero.   No comic book hero I ever grew up with would turn his back on all of his principles and embrace evil, even if to save a loved one.   And what, no Oliver rage that his sister was violated in that way?  No oath of blood vengeance?   Just tears and self-recrimination?   Oliver Queen should be in therapy, not in Nanda Parbat.

 

The worst part is, we know this whole storyline has just been an excruciatingly prolonged dramatic exercise, with no more lasting impact than Oliver getting skewered on the mountaintop.   He'll come around, escape, make some kind of deal or whatever and be on the red-eye back to Starling City before the next Happy Hour at Verdant.

 

Has anyone kept track of the percentage of episodes this season when the Arrow has actually been fighting crime?   The first part of the season was consumed by the angst over Sara's death, then the aforementioned skewering and the weeks of healing, then the frame-up by Ra's.   It feels like Laurel has fought more criminals this season than Oliver.