S10.E19: The Werther Project

[Tara Ariano]

Sam searches for a magical box built by a former Men of Letters that may be able to cure Dean of the Mark of Cain. But the box contains a deadly alarm system that puts the brothers' lives in danger.

[catrox14]

[Demented Daisy]

Dumbledore had to give a blood offering to get into the cave where Voldemort hid one of his horcruxes.  I'm still not sure if we're heading down a road to horcruxes or Hallows... but the signs are becoming a bit obvious.

 

Oh, for what it's worth, the horcrux that Harry and Dumbledore found in the cave?  A fake.  Make of that what you will.

 

Overall, it was a fine episode, if a bit predictable.  I really hope they don't kill Rowena because I adore her.  She's more fun than Crowley has been in years and Metatron has ever been.

 

ETA  Sam is looking for horcruxes; Dean searches for the Hallows.  Makes sense, but I'm still not sure where the show will take those ideas.  Except for self-sacrifice.  That's almost a given at this point, IMO.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Demented Daisy

[LittleIggy]

Good to see Benny again even if only a figment.

[Tippi Blevins]

I was so looking forward to seeing Benny again. I feel underwhelmed.

 

Why was it called the Werther Project? Did they say and I missed it?

[Ferniesfreckles]

Another good episode! Until it comes to a screeching halt next week :(

That Magnus was an evil genious, what with the curse and how to open the box.

So Dean didn't see Rowena?? I thought for sure he did.

Sammy!! Smart, smart Sammy. Knows he can't trust Rowena. It was brilliant. I wonder if Rowena really can de-code the book or it was just BS to get Sam to find the codex she wanted.

Fantastic stuff.

"We're better together than we are apart." Love it. Even Jared quoted this during his live Twittering :)

Edited April 23, 2015 by Ferniesfreckles

[kimrey]

This was really good! Two in a row!

I did not see the Rowena twist coming. Definitely thought she was actually there. Didn't even cross my mind that she was part of the curse put on the box.

Good to see Magnus again! Too bad it was in flashback form. He'd make a great recurring villian.

Brother feels were strong in this one. Dean's lines at the end were perfect. Yes, boys. You are better together than apart. You're also better when you're honest with each other. But I get why Sam is keeping secrets. I don't love it, but I get it.

Oh Sam. "Get to work. Hurry up." I get all tingly when you take control like that!

I was so looking forward to seeing Benny again. I feel underwhelmed.

 

Why was it called the Werther Project? Did they say and I missed it?

I think Magnus actually called the box "Werther." And wasn't Werther a character in a story about a man who commits suicide?

[Mick Lady]

I agree catrox14! Two great episodes in a row. Dare I hope this holds?!

 

Demented Daisy, for the record, I ADORE Crowley! I have a T-Shirt that say, "You're Good, But I'm Crowley!" and I've gotten more comments on it from total strangers than my "Breaking Bad" T-Shirts!

[AwesomO4000]

So Dean didn't see Rowena?? I thought for sure he did.

Sammy!! Smart, smart Sammy. Knows he can't trust Rowena. It was brilliant. I wonder if Rowena really can de-code the book or it was just BS to get Sam to find the codex she wanted.

 

kimrey beat me to it - Rowena wasn't really there. She was a figment from the box. And, yup, I was fooled as well.

 

I'm kinda of a little worried about Sam though. He wasn't showing remorse for long about that woman dying. I'm worried about what - and who - he's going to be willing to sacrifice to save Dean.

 

I do have one question, though. How did the teenage girl get the thing back in the box the first time without it making her kill herself? Or did the box generate a new energy source whatever that thing was?

[Bruinsfan]

Good to see Magnus again! Too bad it was in flashback form. He'd make a great recurring villian.

I think Magnus actually called the box "Werther." And wasn't Werther a character in a story about a man who commits suicide?

Yeah, in one of the first French films ever if I remember correctly.

 

I agree about Cuthbert St. Clair, and not just because Kavan Smith plays him. I suppose we could see the character again - in fact I can easily see him scheming his way up through the ranks of demons in Hell if that's possible for a damned soul who didn't get there via crossroads deal. Of course it'd have to be another actor for appearances in a meatsuit on earth.

 

This is two episodes in a row that I've *really* enjoyed, something I haven't been able to say about Supernatural in a while. And there's another potentially good episode before the Nepotism Twins strike again!

 

My initial worry from the preview about Rowena somehow being able to send Dean to Purgatory (Jeez, why did Cas and Crowley spend a whole season trying to unlock the secret of getting there if there's a revolving door just anyone can use?) was nicely dispelled by it being Dean's hallucinatory mindscape, and the twist with Rowena being a figment of Sam's imagination was a great unexpected touch.

 

I still think Sam is intensely stupid for not trying to get help deciphering the book from a witch less likely to betray and kill him and his brother. Then again, the most recent friendly witch they've dealt with was Christian Campbelll from Adventures in Racefail and Bestiality, and I'd rather see the Winchesters dead than revisit that episode.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[cassandle]

I do have one question, though. How did the teenage girl get the thing back in the box the first time without it making her kill herself? Or did the box generate a new energy source whatever that thing was?

 

And another question, what made the girl knock a hole in the wall in the first place?  Was it calling to her or did she just decide to destroy her family's house for no good reason?

 

And is Dean not considering suicide purely because the MOC won't let him do it, or because he's stronger than that regardless of the MOC?  I wasn't sure what the show was trying to imply.  

 

I really liked this episode.  The fancy camera tricks that bugged me last week worked really well this time I thought…going back and forth from the present to the past and from purgatory to real life--nicely done, Supernatural.  My only real quibble is Rowena calling Dean "dim".  Dear show, please stop referring to Dean as dumb.

 

Oh, and the Speed 2: Cruise Control had me laughing for a good long time.  Dean, you're adorable.

Edited April 23, 2015 by cassandle

[Mick Lady]

Awesom, and cassandle,  these are the answers Mick and I wanted to know. I hate when this show leaves so many unanswered questions!

Edited April 23, 2015 by Mick Lady

[SueB]

And another question, what made the girl knock a hole in the wall in the first place?  Was it calling to her or did she just decide to destroy her family's house for no good reason?

 

And is Dean not considering suicide purely because the MOC won't let him do it, or because he's stronger than that regardless of the MOC?  I wasn't sure what the show was trying to imply.  

- Suzie breaking the wall: I think she was just pissed at her brother's loud music and decided to act out.  A bit of a stretch.

- Dean & suicide: Oh they DEFINITELY want us worried about his state of mind.  Dean didn't go through with it because IMO he knew it was a trick AND because he doesn't want to risk the Mark turning him into a demon.  Since Benny was a figment of his own mind and he knew it -- he couldn't trust anything Benny said.  Dean's been down this road before (What Is and Never Should Be as well as Dream a Little Dream).  Jumping to Purgatory was a huge leap that let him know the whole thing was not real.  So he did "snap out of fantasy 101" and killed Benny.  He didn't kill himself because Benny wanted him too.  So, Dean is certainly not "dim". He sorted that all out himself.  OTOH, if he hadn't been considering Purgatory as a permanent solution before, I bet going there is now a consideration for him. 

[catrox14]

Oh Dean. I just am so worried that he is going to try and take the suicide/eternity in Purgatory route. I just.  It's too much.  Given that they went there with demon!Dean...I believe the show will do anything and I really thought Dean might cut his own throat with that bottle.  That said.. "BENNNY!!!"

 

This episode was really creepy and it legit scared me. And given that my mom recently passed it just hit me in ways I didn't expect. 

 

I agree with you SueB, that she just wanted to wreck the wall because her family annoyed her.  The problem I saw was with the performance because it seemed like Suzie didn't seem surprised to see the box. Like I would have figured she would have had a more WTF expression but instead it was more like mild surprise. 

 

 

The woman playing older Suzie was fantastic.  I just felt all her pain. 

 

Man, between this and Arrow...I am emotionally drained and it's not even the season finales!

Edited April 23, 2015 by catrox14

[Altered Reality]

That was fun!  I loved seeing Benny again, even if he was a figment.  And I agree, nice twist with Rowena being a figment as well.  So glad Sam has a plan to deal with Rowena, it might not work in the end, but at least he's making contingency plans. 

 

I'm not sure, but I got the impression that the defense spell had a limit on time/distance it was effective or it would have wiped the city off the map after it was set off the first time by the MoL.

 

As for bashing down the wall, it looked to me that the workmen the mother mentioned had already been doing some work in the basement (I guess why they couldn't do laundry earlier?) and had actually marked that wall for demolition. I'm pretty sure the girl hit the wall in the middle of an "x marks the spot".  Mind, I could be seeing things.   I understand the temptation to bash something at that point though.  I'd have been pretty ticked off too.

[oliverwendell]

Dean and suicide, redux:  I think the writers used this episode to address a couple of obvious questions surrounding Dean and the Mark:  

 

(1)  Why doesn't he just kill himself?  Well, he thinks suicide is dishonorable, for one, but we -- and he-- just learned that the Mark won't let him kill himself, so that option is doubly off the table.

 

(2)  So if he can't kill himself, what is his plan?  Up until now, he's been planning on having Sam or Cas kill him, presumably with the First Blade, which is the only thing that can kill him, immediately before or after the Mark turns him into a demon.  But I think the writers just showed us the beginnings of Dean reconsidering this plan.  "Benny" pointed out that asking Sam or Cas to kill him is actually a terrible thing to burden them with, something they'd never recover from, and that seemed to resonate with him.  So what does he do instead?  Getting himself to Purgatory would seem like a good option, but short of finding another rogue reaper, it's not a particularly viable one.  Right now, I don't think Dean has a clue, and that's going to make him increasingly desperate as the season winds down.  

[SueB]

Damn.  It's dark in here. Somebody turn on the lights! 

 

The word "creepy" was forefront in my mind the ENTIRE episode.  Well, then it was kinky ... but that's 'cause Sam was being all "in control" and Rowena was probably feeling tingly.  Giant! Ha!

 

Initial thoughts:

- Dean is barely holding it together. He just runs off to kill a nest of vampires to "blow off steam"?  With the time loss last week and this rash decision, I think he's seriously in danger of going off the deep end at any minute. And yes, him getting in the car WAS creepy.  I think Dean's TRYING to act normal but I see bits of Demon!Dean smirk coming thru.  I'm kinda scared OF Dean as well as FOR Dean.

- I LOVED LOVED "diseased killer puppy".  Sam, you are sooooo busted.  Bobo Beren's could not have put together a better description of "Sam face".  He does look at Dean like he's a puppy he may have to put down or something. And I think Sam is also scared both FOR and OF Dean.

- I loved sassy "Rowena" snapping her fingers at Dean.  Sam seems to have gotten the measure of her straight away. If it had been the real Rowena, she totally would have made that move.

- Cuthbert Sinclair got off easy from the MoL.  I'm surprised they just let him walk on out.

- Sam....brrrrrr.....it's chilly in that soul of yours.  You just got that old woman killed and you KNOW what you are doing. 

- I really like how both last week and this week, the writers are giving us a more transparent Dean with regards to his thought processes.  But at the same time... I still think he's losing his grip on reality.

- WHERE are Cas & Charlie? Not even an "explainer"?  Dean needs a freaking babysitter right now.

- Smart move on Sam's part locking Rowena up.  I presume it stops her magic (like Olivette when SHE was in chains), but what's to stop her from learning a lot more from the book than how to cure Dean.  And she's not going to trust Sam again.  Sam might honor his word about Crowley but I'm kinda expecting him to kill Rowena too -- what with his whole BadAss 'tude.

- I would have paid real money to see him give her some water, snacks and a bucket.  (Reminds me of Wesley on Angel).

 

Good episode  Looking forward to a rewatch in the am.  Exhausted now. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by SueB

[catrox14]

 

And yes, him getting in the car WAS creepy.  I think Dean's TRYING to act normal but I see bits of Demon!Dean smirk coming thru.  I'm kinda scared OF Dean as well as FOR Dean.

 

Thank you! At least I know I'm not alone in what I thought I saw. We might be wrong but we'll be wrong together!  LOL.

 

"diseased killer puppy" and all I could think of was "Shit. Dean is Old Yeller"

Edited April 23, 2015 by catrox14

[Bruinsfan]

"Benny" pointed out that asking Sam or Cas to kill him is actually a terrible thing to burden them with, something they'd never recover from, and that seemed to resonate with him.

While I think this is true of Sam, I can actually see Cas regarding it as his sworn duty for the greater good. Also, it's not as if killing Dean would prevent him from visiting for manly chats and such, he of all of them should have a good understanding of death not being an end but just a transition.

[AwesomO4000]

While I think this is true of Sam, I can actually see Cas regarding it as his sworn duty for the greater good. Also, it's not as if killing Dean would prevent him from visiting for manly chats and such, he of all of them should have a good understanding of death not being an end but just a transition.

 

Except with the mark of Cain, Dean can't have a "normal" death right now. The mark won't allow it. Most likely any kind of death will either mean total destruction of Dean - maybe soul and all - or Dean in hell... and that is something entirely different than just Dean dead and in an afterlife. Castiel still might be able to do it for the greater good, but I don't think he'd entirely be the same afterwards knowing he ended Dean permanently or damned him to hell. I wonder what happened to Cain for example, and I wonder if Cas would want to find that out before "doing the deed" if necessary.

[Iguana]

I'm not sure that Dean in hell is s better option than the Mark turning him into a demon. The MoC demon dean we saw seemed more interested in hedonism and individual killing than doing evil for evils sake. I don't think a Dean turned demon by Hell's usual torture the soul process would be anything other than cruel, violent and vicious. I shudder to think of the wholesale slaughter and other horrors that hell demon Dean would be looking to inflict as soon as he got back topside.

I enjoyed this ep for the most part and have to give it props for fooling me with the Rowena hallucination until the very end. Well done, show. I also am left with a legitimate feeling of dread for the state both Winchesters are in. Sam's deal with Rowena and lying to Dean cannot end well. And Dean taking on a vamp nest by himself to "take the edge off" is a sure sign that he's close to losing his fight against the Mark. That can also not end well.

[Primetimer]

You know what goes with drippy retro pop music? Mass suicide.

Read the story

[DittyDotDot]

Wow, I enjoyed this episode greatly. It was very creepy and I do love a good creep! I knew Rowena was probably a hallucination--hey, I also figured out The Sixth Sense twist in the first 10 minutes--but that didn't detract from my enjoyment of it. I like this team up of writer and director, they also brought Alex Annie Alexis Ann last season. I love how Robert Berens keeps his episodes grounded with the characters--they're not usually very action packed, but very thoughtful in a good way--and the look of this episode was fantastic, IMO.  

 

So, Sam just left Rowena chained up with the Book of the Damned? Yeah, that ain't gonna end well. Plus, if the book isn't in it's warded box, doesn't that mean the Stynes will be tracking it again?

 

 

 

Why was it called the Werther Project? Did they say and I missed it?

 

Sounds like Magnus had a sick sense of humor. I'm assuming it's a reference to the novel The Sorrows of Young Werther where the main character commits suicide. There's been a few adaptations of it over the years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sorrows_of_Young_Werther.

 

They've really tapped into the literary episode titles this season, haven't they?

 

I do have one question, though. How did the teenage girl get the thing back in the box the first time without it making her kill herself? Or did the box generate a new energy source whatever that thing was?

 

I don't think she did get it back in the box, but the green stuff is like an energy surge, when released eventually dissipates which would give it limited range. It also seemed it created a new one each time someone tried to open the box. The girl was knocked unconscious so she wasn't affected by the spell, her family was.

[rue721]

I really enjoyed this episode! It was such a throwback, in all the best ways. The best part:  it was genuinely creepy/spooky/scary. That teaser was silly-but-haunting. Which is just how I love SPN to be:  silly-but-haunting. :)

 

The guitar riffs are back! The background music was creepy instead of schlocky (I actually really liked it)! They didn't get any "real" songs, but the show-made music was much better than usual imo. It added a lot of atmosphere. The look of the episode was great, too. All earth tones, grime, and dim lighting.

 

Everything about adult!Susie was fun imo. She and her house looked so greasy and dirty, but there was something about her and the house that were mysterious and invited exploration, too. There were just so many nooks and crannies in that house, it was intriguing. She was also so dry and frustrating/aggravating, which I enjoyed. It was fun watching Dean try to lie to her but struggle to get any real traction. And I liked her hideous sweater. (Also, did anyone else see what was maybe a bottle of Yuengling on her dresser? At first, I was delighted to randomly see some Yuengling sitting there, but at second glance, it was maybe some kind of patent-medicine-looking bottle?)

 

+1 on the "diseased killer puppy line," that cracked me up because it was so dead on for Sam's sad-eyed looks at Dean. And I liked how the look on Sam's face was sort of like, "touche." LOL.

 

+1 on Dean being really freaking creepy! I loved that, actually. He definitely was...*ahem* not quite himself. I loved when he appeared in the car, and that he'd tracked Sam using a *rubbing* from Sam's notepad. WTF!

 

The way he acted like he couldn't be bothered to wait for Sam to attack the vampire nest was creepy for so many reasons, but one big one imo was that, Dean acted like "allowing" Sam to join fights was just a favor he was doing for Sam (sometimes). He wasn't thinking about Sam being an equal, let alone someone he was supposed to let take the lead. And apparently, Sam isn't feeling all that self-confident and is having a semi-crisis, too. So uh. That's probably not going to turn out well!

 

I think the way Dean would just appear (in the car) and disappear (to get to the vamp fight) was supposed to be reminiscent of how Cain would teleport from place to place. Teleportation was part of how Cain would "hunt," too, in The Executioner's Song.

 

- Smart move on Sam's part locking Rowena up.  I presume it stops her magic (like Olivette when SHE was in chains), but what's to stop her from learning a lot more from the book than how to cure Dean.  And she's not going to trust Sam again.  Sam might honor his word about Crowley but I'm kinda expecting him to kill Rowena too -- what with his whole BadAss 'tude.

 

I hope she has her smartphone on there. As we speak, she could be uploading all kinds of pictures of that book and codex to ~the cloud~.

 

In that meeting between Sam and Rowena in the restaurant, I thought that she might have been recording Sam saying that he would kill Crowley, so she could send the recording to Crowley. She just seemed like she wanted Sam to say the words "I will kill Crowley" aloud. Not that Crowley's likely to care all that much, but y'know. Why not make Crowley feel bad and like the Winchesters are a danger to him, if she can?

[Bruinsfan]

Except with the mark of Cain, Dean can't have a "normal" death right now. The mark won't allow it. Most likely any kind of death will either mean total destruction of Dean - maybe soul and all - or Dean in hell... and that is something entirely different than just Dean dead and in an afterlife. Castiel still might be able to do it for the greater good, but I don't think he'd entirely be the same afterwards knowing he ended Dean permanently or damned him to hell. I wonder what happened to Cain for example, and I wonder if Cas would want to find that out before "doing the deed" if necessary.

The Hell option might not be a deal breaker, as Cas has resurrected Dean from there before (and yanked all of Sam but his soul from its deepest depths, as well). Total destruction might be another matter, but I think Dean would have to have degenerated fully into a demon for that to work. Death flat out stated that even Lucifer couldn't actually destroy someone's immortal soul, just torment it, so I doubt anything Cas can do would be permanent and irreversible unless Dean crossed that threshold.

 

I'm wondering now why Dean's subconscious brought up the possibility of going to Purgatory after death. We know the Mark of Cain is a result of Lucifer's power, not Mother-of-All's, and Dean's been to both places. (Clearly he doesn't think Heaven is in the cards.)

[Julia]

Let me just get it out of the way: Kavan Smith, squeeee! Even if he was styled like Pee Wee. Also, nice to see Benny.

You know what goes with drippy retro pop music? Mass suicide.

Aw, be nice. Todd Rundgren was kind of a thing back in the day. And I'm pretty sure the day was 1972, which was way before cocaine and doubleknit peaked.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Julia

[catrox14]

I'm wondering now why Dean's subconscious brought up the possibility of going to Purgatory after death. We know the Mark of Cain is a result of Lucifer's power, not Mother-of-All's, and Dean's been to both places. (Clearly he doesn't think Heaven is in the cards.)

 

 

 

Dean's subconscious going to Purgatory made sense to me.

 

Purgatory allows Dean to feed the Mark without killing humans. It keeps him away from hurting the people he loves. And IMO to a degree it was the only place where he had any kind of control over his life. All he had to do was kill or be killed. And he had a mission which was to save Cas that gave him some purpose in Purgatory. 

 

I think Hell frightens him far more than Purgatory because of his time with Alastair. He had no agency at all in Hell. He has none really in the end now because the Mark has already sealed his fate as a human...he lives on and kills or he dies and becomes a demon again.  Alastair might be dead but I can't imagine Dean relishing the idea of being in Hell again...UNLESS he goes back as a demon and the new King of Hell because he has killed Crowley.  Otherwise, at least in Purgatory, if Benny survived, he has a friend he can trust.  Hell has no one he can really trust and that probably includes himself.  That said....Dean Winchester: King of Hell...does intrigue me.

 

 

The guitar riffs are back! The background music was creepy instead of schlocky (I actually really liked it)! They didn't get any "real" songs, but the show-made music was much better than usual imo. It added a lot of atmosphere. The look of the episode was great, too. All earth tones, grime, and dim lighting.

 

There was one "real" song in the opening sequence which was Todd Rundgren, which BTW great song and man did that sequence give me some flashbacks! The clothes, the hair, the washer and dryer. 

 

Did anyone else wonder if we would somehow see young Mary or young John in that opening sequence since it was in 1973?

Edited April 23, 2015 by catrox14

[Altered Reality]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Sam's hair didn't bug nearly as much this episode.  Looks like there may have been a trim with a few layers cut?

[catrox14]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Sam's hair didn't bug nearly as much this episode.  Looks like there may have been a trim with a few layers cut?

 

There were a couple of angles where I thought it did look better, like at the very end...but then it has that little flip on the end that just drives me crazy because from the side angles (like when he was standing in the doorway) it still looks like That Girl! 

 

IMO I think his hair in s3 and s9 looked the best. I liked s8 Sam hair if it was a little long. IMO his  s9 hair had a good length and only one time was it really funny was in Mother's Little Helper when the THAT GIRL hair was on full display in the diner.

 

I want to see Dean's s9 scruff and demon!Dean hair  together on Dean.. I would just die right there #BringBackDeanScruff

Edited April 23, 2015 by catrox14

[Altered Reality]

Oh yeah, the flip.  It is rather distracting/funny isn't it?  I think one problem they have is they keep trying to make Sam's hair straight and Jared actually has a fair bit of natural wave/curl.  It's a loosing battle, especially in a climate as humid as Vancouver.  Hmmm, that might be why they had it mostly one length, trying to battle the wave.  From experience, I can say this doesn't really work.

 

And catrox14 I'm with you on the longer hair/scruff combo for Dean.   Pretty please show? :D

Edited April 23, 2015 by Altered Reality

[cassandle]

I agree with you SueB, that she just wanted to wreck the wall because her family annoyed her.  The problem I saw was with the performance because it seemed like Suzie didn't seem surprised to see the box. Like I would have figured she would have had a more WTF expression but instead it was more like mild surprise. 

 

That's why I was wondering if she was in a trance or something because she was so "meh" about it.  

 

 

Aw, be nice. Todd Rundgren was kind of a thing back in the day. And I'm pretty sure the day was 1972, which was way before cocaine and doubleknit peaked.

 

I fully admit to LOVING that song and to singing along when it came on :)

 

Oh, I forgot to mention that Sam's hair didn't bug nearly as much this episode.  Looks like there may have been a trim with a few layers cut?

 

It didn't bother me either.  I was trying to figure out if it looked better or if I've just gotten used to it/given up.

 

I almost didn't watch last night because I worked late and was exhausted but then I remembered Benny was supposed to be in it so I forced myself to stay up and watch the recording.  Glad I did.  I'd be pretty happy if there was a few episodes of Dean in Purgatory if it meant seeing (real) Benny again.  And we'd hopefully get some great fight scenes (loved the tiny one we got last night).  I've always felt a little bad for Dean when he left Purgatory and had to deal with the guilt and angst of killing/hunting in the real world.  On the other hand, I really don't want to see Dean die (again) because I'm a sap and it would make me sad.  But if the writers/directors keep doing what they've been doing lately I'm hopeful that whatever the outcome is, it'll be good.  Fingers crossed.

[SueB]

PTV...we wrestle with the big issues: hair and scruff.

J/K...I'm right there in that end of the pool with ya'll.

 

iTunes downloaded...I'm going back in for a rewatch soon!

 

BTW...I forgot to note how I loved the effect of having Dean's eyes' reflect a little spot of yellow light (rather than white) while in Purgatory. A sure sign it was a hallucination.  Now I'll have to scope out Sam's on round 2.

 

ETA:  I think the mentioned "workers" were putting that wall in place & she took it back down in a fit of pique.

Edited April 23, 2015 by SueB

[saber5055]

I think Magnus actually called the box "Werther." And wasn't Werther a character in a story about a man who commits suicide?

 

 

Either that or the name of some really delicious individually wrapped caramels.

 

Loved me some Benny last night.

[Altered Reality]

PTV...we wrestle with the big issues: hair and scruff.

Hey, these are important issues ;D

 

 

And welcome to the shallow end, I like hanging out here, it's nice and safe :D

[Goldmoon]

I'm just thinking of Sam as Little Lord Fauntleroy, or Samleroy.  I have no idea what JP is doing with his hair.  It did look good in S8 when there were layers to it.  JA is working on a double chin, there, and I have some exercises he can do to tighten that up!

 

I really liked this ep, and loved seeing Benny.  I have liked Rowena from the get go, so I really appreciated Halluciena here.  I wondered why she was being faux-nice to Sam.  Did I sense off the charts chemistry between those two? Crowley would have a cow.

[bethy]

Speaking of the shallow end, is Jensen Ackles getting better looking? Because he has seemed especially attractive the last couple of episodes. But then maybe it's because I haven't been rolling my eyes as hard.

Sam's hair also didn't bug as much.

I really enjoyed this episode, but apparently I don't have anything of substance to contribute.

[catrox14]

Jensen IMO has been getting better looking but still looks the same. He's lost the baby face of youth..which as been replaced by the handsome grown man face. I think he's just stunning.  As to the double chin?? LOL what ? no....he might be getting a little bit of a waddle but it's far from a double chin...At least we know he's not having work done.

[bethy]

I did not see a double chin at all. In fact his face looked leaner to me. Huh. I guess I'll have to watch again with special attention to JA's face to double-check. So sad for me. :)

[Goldmoon]

I feel your pain Bethy.  It is evident in the scene in the beginning where Dean gets in the car.  Could have been a REALLY bad angle too.

[supposebly]

 

All he had to do was kill or be killed

I do wonder if Purgatory would be a good temporary solution. However, since he wouldn't be human any more, the question arises if he could get out. Of course, after bloody Taxi Driver (this is one of those episodes I tend to deny ever happened), it might be easy for a human to get in and then Dean hitch a ride out. And apparently angels (Naomi) can get someone out too.

Loved the episode. Dean creeped me out (and that's a first), Sam flailing to keep a hold on Dean while simultaneously trying to find a solution. I did not realize that Rowena was a hallucination until I saw Sam squeezing the hell out of his arm. And I kept thinking why is Dean not reacting to Rowena? so, yeah, not so smart here.

 

I get Sam, but I don't like it. But I think at this point it's just as well he doesn't tell Dean. It might actually be dangerous seeing as Demon!Dean is barely hidden any more. Even when he talked about "together we are stronger" I got a creepy vibe. Which, of course, might have been my emphasis with Sam's guilt here.

 

 

I hope she has her smartphone on there.

I hope Sam took her phone and that place is warded to the gills. He is dealing with a very powerful witch here even if her ambitions tend to overpower her smarts once in a while. I really hope he is smart about this. Although this episode did not make me feel very trustful about that.

 

Susie made me sad. The poor woman. Seeing her whole family die and probably her aunt as well. Sam's flailing is getting people killed. Again.

I do like that we are coming back to the whole topic of the Winchesters obsessively saving each other at the cost of other people's lives.

 

Will rewatch after I finish grading those exams. Exam period is cutting into my TV watching.

[SueB]

Finished a rewatch.  With Rowena, I'm getting a lesson in Scottish slang.  Today's word: bampot. Means "head case" or "stupid person".

 

Bits to add:

- I get why Suzy and maybe the Aunt were suicidal later in life, but what vision did Mom, Dad and brother see to go postal?

- I think the MoL put the false wall (the chinking suggests that wall had been in place a while), and the workers were just doing some construction (maybe shelving?) in that half of the basement.  What's interesting...why did she never get killed before?  1st time unconscious? Second time?  Out of the house?

- Jensen Ackles should just be declared the all-time champ of Alpha Male Madness and retire his jersey.  Those vamp kills were waaaaaay too much fun for Dean. I liked how buzzed Jensen played Dean after the fact.  Kind of like echoes of the Dean of old ('Do you think it's because we're so awesome? I think it's because we're awesome.)

- I can't tell what he knows Sam is doing but I'd be surprised if he's not suspicious.  He appeared to "fill in the blank" for why Sam left.  Interesting that he thinks Sam "teaches him a lesson"  by going off on a hunt alone. Interesting power dynamic at play there.  He knows how Sam punishes him and immediately presumed that this is what it was.

- I'm really enjoying Rowena chewing the scenery.  I love her "Breck girl" moment with her hair after being chained up. And she seriously wins all the competitions for female dressing.

- Cuthbert's taunting about the Men of Letters not being real "men".  Hunters would never hesitate to slit their arms to get blood. I wonder if the MoL were all just as ready. Perhaps that's why the solution was relatively easy for Sam and Dean compared to MoL.

- So Dean took a sledge hammer to the box.  I bet he enjoyed destroying something that the "zoo-keeper" put together. 

- I thought Jared did an excellent job with all the non-verbals this week.  We saw his vulnerable side (when looking at Dean) and his Mystery Spot personality with Rowena.  I also liked Dead!Susie echoing the Trickster's comments regarding which of the Winchesters was more unstable.

- And oh how I loved seeing Benny again.  He felt right.  Not just a figment of Dean's imagination but how the real Benny would act (up until the suicidal push).  I miss Benny. 

 

Just a really solid episode for me.  I'll watch again for both the plot and the pretty.

[catrox14]

You knooowwww.....re Dean sledgehammering the box.   I'm not convinced he did that. Why not show him take at least one swipe at the thing?  Just like not showing Cain's cold dead body.....taking my thoughts to the spoiler thread. It's a bit like Schroedinger's Cain or Schroedinger's Box

[Aeryn13]

 

It's a bit like Schroedinger's Cain

 

Ahahaha, that`s great. Now I`m picturing Sheldon Cooper explaining that, until we see a smoldering corpse onscreen, Cain can be thought of as both dead and alive.  

[oliverwendell]

 

I'm really enjoying Rowena chewing the scenery.  I love her "Breck girl" moment with her hair after being chained up. And she seriously wins all the competitions for female dressing.

 

I love Rowena.  She's so smarmy and snotty, and her aggressiveness is not overly sexualized, as it was with Abaddon and Eve and other female villains of the past.  Yet she manages to also be quite adorable. Plus her wardrobe:  that blue dress AND cape with matching eyeshadow??  J'adore!

[cassandle]

Speaking of the shallow end, is Jensen Ackles getting better looking? Because he has seemed especially attractive the last couple of episodes. But then maybe it's because I haven't been rolling my eyes as hard.

 

Hell yeah he is.  I spend about 30% of each episode exclaiming to myself, "Holy crap he's handsome!  No one should be that good looking!"

 

- Jensen Ackles should just be declared the all-time champ of Alpha Male Madness and retire his jersey.  Those vamp kills were waaaaaay too much fun for Dean. I liked how buzzed Jensen played Dean after the fact.  Kind of like echoes of the Dean of old ('Do you think it's because we're so awesome? I think it's because we're awesome.)

 

I think this is a big part of what I've liked most about the past few episodes.  Dean smiling, having fun kililng things (albeit slightly creepy ramped-up killing fun), drumming on the steering wheel to his music, lightheartedly screwing around with Sam (e.g. messing with his stuff while he's away and surprising him in the car), etc.  I miss frequently-cheerful Dean.  Even if it's the MOC making him a little manic and killy I'll take it just to see that smile.

 

Will rewatch after I finish grading those exams. Exam period is cutting into my TV watching.

 

Meh, screw exams.  I have a TON of work I'm supposed to be doing right now but I'm here reading and posting about how handsome JA is--it's so much more fun that boring old responsibilities ;)

[Bruinsfan]

  - I thought Jared did an excellent job with all the non-verbals this week.  We saw his vulnerable side (when looking at Dean) and his Mystery Spot personality with Rowena.  I also liked Dead!Susie echoing the Trickster's comments regarding which of the Winchesters was more unstable.

I really liked that, because it was basically Sam's own conscience talking to him and revealed that despite outward appearances since Season 3 or so, he actually is both conscious of and regretful for all the collateral damage his and Dean's lifestyle causes to bystanders. A bit of introspection on Sam's part actually makes him a much more sympathetic and likeable character. This is both very different from and superior to brooding about being a monster because of psychic visions/demon blood addiction/Lucifer's hand up his ass/misplaced soul/awful taste in girlfriends. It's a grown man facing the fact that he's made choices which cost other people dearly, rather than a boy whining about outside forces making him different and misunderstood.

 

I love Rowena.  She's so smarmy and snotty, and her aggressiveness is not overly sexualized, as it was with Abaddon and Eve and other female villains of the past.  Yet she manages to also be quite adorable. Plus her wardrobe:  that blue dress AND cape with matching eyeshadow??  J'adore!

I would like to note that in her big showcase episode, Mother-of-All wasn't sexualized for her confrontation with the heroes. Whether it was the producers wanting a villain that more effectively pushed Sam & Dean's buttons, or just realizing that a smirky Victoria's Secret model wasn't able to handle the heavy lifting and they needed Samantha Smith to step in and pinch hit, that may have been my all-time favorite bit of recasting.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[catrox14]

I just have to say, Rowena's face and reactions as she was rubbing/pumping Sam's arm as he was bleeding out.....COME.ON. I MEAN ARE YOU SERIOUS? I literally LOL'd and was okay show...if that's how you need to do a metaphor for a handjob...LOL

[bethy]

I feel your pain Bethy. It is evident in the scene in the beginning where Dean gets in the car. Could have been a REALLY bad angle too.

I did the rewatch - for science - and I think you're right about the bad angle in the car. We all, unless we've had work done, have some flesh/fat under our jaws. And I think how he was sitting plus the camera angle emphasized it.

- I can't tell what he knows Sam is doing but I'd be surprised if he's not suspicious. He appeared to "fill in the blank" for why Sam left. Interesting that he thinks Sam "teaches him a lesson" by going off on a hunt alone. Interesting power dynamic at play there. He knows how Sam punishes him and immediately presumed that this is what it was.

I thought this was really interesting, too. It was like a script (ha!) they played out from habit. Sam even prompts, "And?" at one point to which Dean adds something like, "It was dumb and a douche move." Sam does his part even though that wasn't at all why he went off on his own.

It also made me think that John's absences may have felt like punishment to Dean as he was growing up sometimes - after the shtriga John left them at Jim's, right?

I certainly hope Dean is suspicious. Please don't be dumb, Dean.

Edited April 23, 2015 by bethy

[catrox14]

Oh I think Dean absolutely knows that Sam is up to something. He was side-eying him all over the place. I think it's going to become Dean trying to ferret out exactly what Sam is up to for a couple of episodes.

[AwesomO4000]

- I can't tell what he knows Sam is doing but I'd be surprised if he's not suspicious.  He appeared to "fill in the blank" for why Sam left.  Interesting that he thinks Sam "teaches him a lesson"  by going off on a hunt alone. Interesting power dynamic at play there.  He knows how Sam punishes him and immediately presumed that this is what it was.

 

I thought this was really interesting, too. It was like a script (ha!) they played out from habit. Sam even prompts, "And?" at one point to which Dean adds something like, "It was dumb and a douche move." Sam does his part even though that wasn't at all why he went off on his own.

I certainly hope Dean is suspicious. Please don't be dumb, Dean.

 

I'm not sure myself. I need to watch again, but I wasn't sure actually that that would be the kind of thing Sam would do, and I thought that Dean was actually giving Sam an excuse / story that he knew wouldn't be likely to see if Sam would "bite" so that if Sam did, Dean would be pretty sure that it wasn't the truth without actually tipping his hand that he knew it wasn't the truth. I thought it was sort of a mind game on Dean's part.

 

I'll need to rewatch to see if I get the same impression the second time.