S03.E13: March 8, 1983

[Chaos Theory]

I really enjoyed that. Paige's storyline has been building towards that all season.  She is a deeply  honest person who just couldn't handle the fact that her parents are basically lying liars who lie and went to a person who she thinks she can trust.  Who knows maybe she can.  P&E may have to kill him next season and it may be a object lesson for Paige.  

 

Hey at least we found out Martha is still alive.  Good for you Martha.   

 

I got a kick out of the fact that after all the scheming by Stan that he still didn't get Nina out of Russia.

 

Hey Phillip made a new friend.  Stan's wife...oh sorry Stan's ex-wife.  Is it even possible for Phillip to be honest with someone?  Can he even do that?  

 

Evil empire!  Evil Empire!  

[benteen]

Oh, come on!  You can't end the episode there!

 

Great episode!  Tense as hell with just about everything hitting its mark.  This episode was really about the fracturing of a family.  Elizabeth is still the hardcore Communist but to quote Spock, she's finding out that having (Paige know the truth) is not as pleasing a thing as wanting.  I definitely buy Paige's behavior here.

 

Matthew Rhys turned in another amazing performance...he does incredible work.  Keri Russell was great too, especially when Elizabeth reunites with her mother.  That was a fantastic scene.  How they and this show continue to get looked over at the Emmys is a mystery.

 

Great stuff on the Stan front.  How Stan AND Gaad are able to keep their jobs is another mystery.

 

I liked the Phillip/Sandra interaction a lot and I was a little worried they would have a fling.

 

Phillip murdering that guy was like Elizabeth brutal.  That was a rough one.  I'm surprised that Martha didn't appear but looks like this storyline will continue next season.

 

I think it might be time for Phillip to take Pastor Tim fishing.  Or for Elizabeth to tell him to check under his car.

Edited April 23, 2015 by benteen

[RedHawk]

I got a kick out of the fact that after all the scheming by Stan that he still didn't get Nina out of Russia.

 

 

I admit that I did, too. I mean, really -- did Stan think Nina would be the first choice or even the 5th? That he would get to call that shot? And still he was way too self-satisfied when he looked at Gaad and Aderholt after learning he would be allowed to continue his efforts with Oleg. But yeah, what is he going to use for leverage with Oleg now?

Edited April 23, 2015 by RedHawk

[shura]

I still don't understand why P&E trust Paige to keep their secret. She has never once looked comfortable keeping this to herself, and her speech to her mom at the airport should have put Elizabeth on high alert.

 

I agree. Really, Gabriel should have taken control of this as soon as he learned that Paige has been told. It's just too much of a risk to trust, pretty much blindly, that Paige will not tell anybody. And speaqking of Gabriel, I was with him when he said Philip was being childish. So Philip sent Elizabeth and Paige to West Germany, and now that they are there, he is demanding that the KGB do what he wants? Right, like the KGB really has no choice there.

 

Still not sure why Stan as not fired. He was sleeping with someone he was handling and was completely compromised over it

 

For one crazy moment there, I was afraid/expecting the FBI guy to say that Stan has been appointed the head of the division, replacing Gaad. Glad that didn't happen. Good for Stan, playing Oleg like that. I wonder if Oleg has his own tape of Stan divulging classified things, I think I will be disappointed if he doesn't.

 

I think there is an good chance that Martha has turned herself in.

 

You know who doesn't care? Gene.

[edhopper]

Why would the parents of a teenage girl ever think they could trust a child her age with that kind of secret, or that she would ever turn on America?

[Shriekingeel]

Stan keeping his job was hard to believe. It felt like that scene from the movie Stripes: "You're just the kind of go-getters we've been looking for". But now Gaad and Aderholt hate his guts.

I wonder if that CIA asset that the assistant director was talking about was Nina's cellie.

[Ellaria]

I'm not at all surprised that Paige spilled the beans to Pastor Tim. Trusting her with that secret was creating a ticking time bomb. That was just too much complexity for a 15 year old. (It is safe to say that Pastor Tim isn't going to last too long in S4.) Overall, it was an appropriate way to end the season.

It was very anti-climatic - and a bit unsatisfying - not to see Martha. Presumably she is alive somewhere and digesting whatever bit of nonsense that Philip dumped on her. Poor Gene paid the ultimate price.

I think that I now officially hate Stan. I'm not happy that the Deputy Attny General (or whoever the big shot is) saved his ass. John Boy had every right to be angry. And all of his machinations still didn't save Nina...at least for now.

Philip is going to crack soon. And it may happen while Elizabeth's commitment becomes even stronger due to the Evil Empire.

[RedHawk]

Sandra's discussion and request of Philip was so moving to me. She had no idea how deeply she was getting to him, or how much he probably wanted to say "yes" and just spill everything in one long exhale. I like that she's back and hope we see her again next season. Kick in the gut to Stan, though, how she so casually told him he could keep the wedding album.

[sistermagpie]

Both Paige and Phillip backed up what Reagan was saying about the Soviet Union with their misery.

 

 

I'm sure there are miserable American spies out there too, of course. And people getting dragged into the conflict on the US side.

 

I really enjoyed that. Paige's storyline has been building towards that all season.  She is a deeply  honest person who just couldn't handle the fact that her parents are basically lying liars who lie and went to a person who she thinks she can trust.  Who knows maybe she can.  P&E may have to kill him next season and it may be a object lesson for Paige.

 

 

I hope so. Because Elizabeth's right--everyone lies. Including Paige. She had no trouble telling Henry to keep his mouth shut about her hitchhiking when he might have wanted to come clean. Now she can't handle not telling people her parents are Russian because that makes her a liar. If Pastor Tim told her some secret she'd keep it in a second.

 

Totally in character, though--and in line with plenty of Christians, especially Christian teens. Very focused on not doing the things "bad people" do--like deal drugs, steal or lie. She was never impressed with Elizabeth's opening salvo about how they broke the law because it was the right thing. (Pastor Tim breaks the law, sure, but so that he can get properly arrested!)

 

I hadn't thought about it before but I do think there's a significance that she says they're Russians--she's still focused on her personal life all the way rather than thinking about espionage, except in that espionage might also make them lie. She and Elizabeth are so alike no wonder they're terrible when it comes to comforting each other. Everything about that trip for Paige was about herself and what she thought of her mother instead of getting a greater understanding of Elizabeth.

 

And this woman didn't think she might spill the beans? It's not even about how badly Paige feels, it's about how clueless she is about danger as an American teen. She didn't at all understand how important it was to keep that secret. I assume she maybe thought she was doing fine just by keeping it to "they're Russians."

 

I wonder if Pastor Tim would just confront them about that, also not understanding the whole situation--they'd have a hard time killing him still because of Paige.

[AGuyToo]

Stan keeping his job was hard to believe. It felt like that scene from the movie Stripes: "You're just the kind of go-getters we've been looking for". But now Gaad and Aderholt hate his guts.

I wonder if that CIA asset that the assistant director was talking about was Nina's cellie.

 

That is a good idea (about Nina's cellmate). It would help get the Nina storyline connected to the main storyline.

[RedHawk]

One confusion I had though, Sandra met Arthur at EST, correct? Now they're in a relationship. Why does she still feel that she can't open herself to him, allow him to truly know her? He's gone through a bunch of these seminars just as she has, I assume, so you'd think they'd have the language and be on the same page about openness, honesty, need for connection. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by RedHawk

[ToastnBacon]

I haven't heard Richard Thomas get much praise for his acting, but I think he is pretty damned good in this.

Gaad of my favorite characters in this show.

Edited April 23, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[JennyMominFL]

I haven't heard Richard Thomas get much praise foe his acting, but I think he is pretty damned good in this.

Gaad of my favorite characters in this show.

he was really good tonight. I thik what we saw was his feeling that this was a personal betrayal of Stans

[Dowel Jones]

The Commodore 64.  64k RAM, and 30911 bytes free.  OMG.

[AGuyToo]

I haven't heard Richard Thomas get much praise foe his acting, but I think he is pretty damned good in this.

Gaad of my favorite characters in this show.

 

I like Gaad (and Richard Thomas) a lot too.

 

I'm not sure how Gaad and Stan work together after this. Gaad's boss totally undermined him there. Chain of command exists for a reason.

[sistermagpie]

I was thinking that too about Arthur and Sandra, that they met at EST. But then, that's the thing, isn't it? Nobody's entirely honest all the time. You go through things that are hard to communicate. Stuff like EST and praying claim to be the answer for it but nothing really is forever.

 

I forgot to say that I think this season really sets up that in Season 4 we *have* to start getting Philip's backstory. Elizabeth's arc with her mother went from the pilot to her getting to say good-bye to the woman (who hasn't changed at all). Loved her line when Philip said he was sorry he hadn't met her that he "wouldn't have liked her." Though again, it kind of was sad--the mother would have gotten a lot more out of meeting Philip.

 

Anyway, I feel like the decks have got to be cleared for that now.

 

And I think Elizabeth will continue cracking despite her renewed anger at Reagan. She must know Paige isn't turnable.

Edited April 23, 2015 by sistermagpie

[AGuyToo]

I can't help but think that Philip has underestimated Martha. She's a good person. Gene was a person she knew. They weren't friends exactly -- maybe "work friends" ? -- but a real person (not an abstraction) to her. Why does Philip think Martha is just going to go along with Gene's murder?  And she's too smart not to realize that it was murder and not suicide.

Edited April 23, 2015 by AGuyToo

[bluebonnet]

I'm sure there are miserable American spies out there too, of course. And people getting dragged into the conflict on the US side.

 

Case in point, Stan.  Another would be Nina, who was technically an agent of America.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by bluebonnet

[RedHawk]

And she's too smart not realize that it was murder, not suicide.

 

 

Oh yes, it will be obvious to her once she hears they found the bugging equipment at his home. I was sure Philip wasn't going to kill her immediately, but now I don't think she'll last long. It's may be a key moment in his breakdown. Just thought, oh no, Elizabeth might do it behind his back and then tell him. Horrors.

Edited April 23, 2015 by RedHawk

[ToastnBacon]

I was thinking that too about Arthur and Sandra, that they met at EST. But then, that's the thing, isn't it? Nobody's entirely honest all the time. You go through things that are hard to communicate. Stuff like EST and praying claim to be the answer for it but nothing really is forever.

 

I forgot to say that I think this season really sets up that in Season 4 we *have* to start getting Philip's backstory. Elizabeth's arc with her mother went from the pilot to her getting to say good-bye to the woman (who hasn't changed at all). Loved her line when Philip said he was sorry he hadn't met her that he "wouldn't have liked her." Though again, it kind of was sad--the mother would have gotten a lot more out of meeting Philip.

 

Anyway, I feel like the decks have got to be cleared for that now.

 

And I think Elizabeth will continue cracking despite her renewed anger at Reagan. She must know Paige isn't turnable.

I don't think Eliabeth will ever crack, she has bought into the communist ideology all the way. She is dead inside and thinks it is normal.

Phillip still has a heart and has big problems with all the killing he is doing on behalf of the Soviet Union.

It was ironic that Elizabeth said that Phillip wasn't seeing the Martha situation clearly, but Elizabeth is completely misreading Paige.

I think Phillip knew Paige would push back hard, and that is why he was for sending her with Elizabeth.

He is trying to maneuver Elizabeth into a position where she will have to choose between the KGB and her family.

I predict disastrous results when Elizabeth is forced into choosing next season.

[Dowel Jones]

I rather wonder what Philip and, to a lesser extent, Elizabeth, think of the reasons behind the Russian presence in Afghanistan.  Sooner or later the revelations of their conduct will be publicized, and Philip will have to confront his reasoning of "My people are dying over there".  Elizabeth not so much, because she is the epitome of the true believer in her (rapidly diminishing) cause. 

 

Was the killing of the IT guy sanctioned, or was it independent action?  That scene at the beginning of the episode carries a lot of weight, now.

[crashdown]

I thought the scene of Paige praying for Elizabeth's mother was really well acted.  I had the strong sense that for the first time Elizabeth almost wished that she could pray too, even though she still dismisses all religion as ridiculous.  In a way, it's a parallel to Philip and EST: both Elizabeth and Philip occasionally feel some sort of *lack.* With Elizabeth, the feeling is fleeting (although I think it comes a little more frequently lately), and with Philip it's festering into an outright existential crisis.

[Umbelina]

I thought Elizabeth realized (finally!) what a mess telling Paige was, even though she's still in denial, especially when Paige began praying!

[gwhh]

Was it just me or meeting grandma just a little anti climate!? I expect a lot spy tricks (disguise, hinding in car trunks, etc) a full fledge spy movie like operation. As the KGB moved them to meet grandma behind the iron curtain or vice a versa.

How they get grandma to the meet in the first place? Even if you just drove her across the border that would draw a lot of attention to them from west Germany counter intell people!

Mom and daughter was on there own passports as far as I could tell (but I was getting the feeling from there KGB) handler it may have been a fake one)!  If someone got a photo of them and sent it around to the intell agency (FBI, CIA).  And ask the simple question, why was the KGB meeting with these two people?  It would be all over for them! 

 

Who think Pagie and Elizaeabth was flying on there own passports with there own names on it? 

Edited April 23, 2015 by gwhh

[benteen]

The Commodore 64.  64k RAM, and 30911 bytes free.  OMG.

 

,8,1 I got strangely excited when I saw that because I remember having to punch that in all the time on the first computer my family had.

 

Stan might be pathetic when it comes to his dead marriage but even I felt bad for him with how Sandra so quickly discarded their old wedding album.  That had to hurt a lot.

Edited April 23, 2015 by benteen

[AGuyToo]

I'm glad Stan got a win tonight.

 

I was getting really tired of how the show kept presenting him as the ultimate sadsack: lost his wife, lost his lover, lost his partner, estranged from his son, kind of crappy at his job, pathetically mooning over women he can't have (Sandra/Nina), and mooching home-cooked dinners off the Jennings.

 

He needed a win.

[Cardie]

How they and this show continue to get looked over at the Emmys is a mystery.

 

At least the show just won a Peabody Award.

 

I'm still not 100% certain Philip left Martha alive. It's very odd to have her completely absent from the finale. He was so depressed even before he killed Gene. Then again, he could just be bummed by Martha's reaction to the depth of his betrayal. Perhaps that's why the sex seminar, since feigned intimacy is such a big part of how he has used Martha. I don't think she could have turned herself in yet because the office would be all abuzz and Stan would have delayed his reveal about Zinaida and Oleg. But once Gene's death comes to light she will no doubt come clean to the bureau. So I still don't see much hope for her in the long run.

 

The Anton-Nina plot has primarily been a way to find Annet Mahendru something to do but at least it connects to the aircraft photos Elizabeth conned her sponsor into taking. Anton seemed to find our stealth technology very nifty.

 

I'm really at a loss as to how they can contain the Paige problem. A challenge for the writers to be sure. Maybe P&E can turn double agents and work with Stan and Oleg as the only way to stay out of jail  and keep he family together.

 

Since Gabriel seemed to say that there was no way the Centre would sanction Elizabeth's mom being smuggled into Germany, how did that happen?

[whiporee]

I think Martha's dead. Phillip was way too messed up for it to have been about Annalise. There's no way she's just absent from the FBI when all that is going on -- and there's no way he would have let her leave to her parents or anything of the sort. And there's no way she's okay with what she saw at the end of last episode.

I think from a show standpoint, they couldn't show him killing her -- too much of the show demand us to have sympathy for the Jennings, and then killing strangers is one thing, but killing a regular would be unrecoverable.

So I think she's dead, and that's what fucked him up.

[ruby24]

Crap, there goes Pastor Tim.

 

Okay, so I think we all know now beyond a shadow of a doubt that Paige is utterly un-turnable. And Philip's about to crack at any second too- I think he may have been trying to suggest defection again.

 

To me, this is leading to Philip grabbing Paige and Henry, and maybe using Martha at some point, to get the hell out of this situation next season. I think we have to start a defection storyline, because how much longer can Paige last? She's done, and if they kill Pastor Tim because of this? There's just no way. Everyone's turning against Elizabeth now, I'm predicting it to happen.

[lucindabelle]

I guess I'm the only one who ddint buy Paige's betrayal. But I didn't. It made no sense to me. Her parents are her protectors and she's just met her maternal grandmother,nit made no sense.

So the season ended and no kimmienwrap up ornthe anti apartheid people. Feh.

I too am surprised EST is more than a joke.. And impressed.

[AGuyToo]

I think Martha's dead. Phillip was way too messed up for it to have been about Annalise. There's no way she's just absent from the FBI when all that is going on -- and there's no way he would have let her leave to her parents or anything of the sort. And there's no way she's okay with what she saw at the end of last episode.

I think from a show standpoint, they couldn't show him killing her -- too much of the show demand us to have sympathy for the Jennings, and then killing strangers is one thing, but killing a regular would be unrecoverable.

So I think she's dead, and that's what fucked him up.

 

This is an interesting take -- especially because of the light it would cast on Philip's conversation at the end with Elizabeth. He clearly indicates to her that Martha is still alive. If she's not, then that conversation suggests a sense of denial so profound to be almost pathological. I don't know. It would be interesting.

Edited April 23, 2015 by AGuyToo

[bluebonnet]

I guess I'm the only one who ddint buy Paige's betrayal. But I didn't. It made no sense to me. Her parents are her protectors and she's just met her maternal grandmother,nit made no sense.

 

I believed it because Elizabeth couldn't promise to protect her and/or not abandon her.  She just met the woman who let Elizabeth go off and become this new person with a life full of lies and all Elizabeth can say is that Paige wouldn't have to do that sort of thing, not hat she'd fight for Paige.  

[ruby24]

I buy it completely, because Paige has felt for a long time that she doesn't even know her parents, that they're hiding everything from her. The only person we've seen her feel close to is Pastor Tim, so I totally buy that she'd immediately run to him.

[Cardie]

If Philip did kill Martha, she probably had already notified the office that he was taking her vacation time. That gives him three weeks to figure out how to make it look like she suffered some sort of accident on the way.

[AGuyToo]

I also was struck by Elizabeth's answer. When Paige asked her question, I was expecting Elizabeth to reply with "Of course not! You're my daughter and I love you. And I will always be there for you." Instead, Paige basically got "Don't worry. That's not in our (current) plans" -- which might lead her to wonder what exactly she is expected to do.

Edited April 23, 2015 by AGuyToo

[ruby24]

Actually, can Pastor Tim tell anyone about this? Does it work like a confessional, where he can't go to the authorities if someone tells him something in confidence? Honestly, I wonder what his reaction will be- does he confront P&E himself?

[Irlandesa]

I'm still not 100% certain Philip left Martha alive. It's very odd to have her completely absent from the finale. He was so depressed even before he killed Gene.

Why would he lie to Elizabeth?  They both talked about Martha as if she were alive.  Elizabeth certainly wouldn't shed a tear if he had killed Martha.  In fact, the whole reason Gene was killed was to get the heat off of Martha. What pushed her over the edge was the constant interrogation and the fear that no one believed in her innocence.  So Philip killed Gene, leaving him to take the fall and relieve the pressure on Martha. 

 

Unless you think he has had a complete psychotic break?  But I think that would be something weird to not reveal to the audience.  (Although, I will admit, before I knew who Gene was, I thought he was someone from EST that Philip had killed.  That's right, I thought he was turning into a psychotic, as opposed to purposeful, serial killer in front of our eyes.)

 

I guess I'm the only one who ddint buy Paige's betrayal. But I didn't. It made no sense to me. Her parents are her protectors and she's just met her maternal grandmother,nit made no sense

But during that meeting, she found out that her grandmother had basically let her daughter go forever at a young age.  Then, when she asked her mother if she would ever do that to her, Elizabeth didn't say that she wouldn't be able to let her go.  She said that Paige would never have to do that.  Basically, the meaning is the same but the delivery was very Elizabethian and not very reassuring.  Paige was seeking emotional comfort but Elizabeth was speaking of duty. In other words, if duty required it of her, Elizabeth could let her daughter go.  It's just not something she anticipates having to do.

 

She doesn't trust her parents.  And she has built up this relationship with Pastor Tim over the past few years where he also feels like a protector of her.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Irlandesa

[bluebonnet]

Actually, can Pastor Tim tell anyone about this? Does it work like a confessional, where he can't go to the authorities if someone tells him something in confidence? Honestly, I wonder what his reaction will be- does he confront P&E himself?

I'm not sure about the confidence thing.  However, if Paige doesn't tell him that they are spies, he might not make that leap on his own.  He might actually be on the Jenningses side, thinking that they are merely immigrants who just don't want to be discriminated against, especially now that Ol' Reagan decided to call Russians evil. 

[Umbelina]

He's not a priest, so he's not bound by any sacred vows about the confessional. 

 

The thing I found interesting was what Elizabeth's mother said.  "I had to let you go.  Everything depended on it."  I'm not positive of the exact quote, did anyone get it?  It sure didn't SOUND like she wanted to!  Which is kind of shocking since joining the KGB was considered about the best job you could get.

 

It just seemed ...off.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Umbelina

[Boundary]

It was a strange finale for me. Only until the last 10 minutes or so when the stakes got high did I see the point of it all.

 

They should have listened to me when I told them it was idiotic to try to bring in Paige.

 

I remember disagreeing but I'll have to admit I was wrong. One part of me doesn't feel sorry for Paige, she started snooping around in season 2 and she demanded answers and now she finds she doesn't like what she knows? But on the other hand, she's just a kid whose parents don't take her religion seriously and so don't appreciate the burden they've placed on her. On balance, they should've lied to her; some version of the truth, witness protection or some such.

 

The parents and the Center both underestimated how much of a burden this will be for Paige. Actually, it'd now make more sense if the Center surreptitiously put Pastor Tim under surveillance because, paraphrasing Elizabeth, both parents aren't seeing this clearly. Actually, only one of them. Did anyone notice that Elizabeth pretty much lied to Philip about Paige, she was trying to reassure him that everything was fine when she actually noticed (and confirmed it with that conversation at the airport) that Paige is far from fine. What's more she comes back home and finds Philip at the end of his tether. Reagan's speech strengthened her resolve though. But what did it do o Philip's?

 

Sandra's discussion and request of Philip was so moving to me. She had no idea how deeply she was getting to him, or how much he probably wanted to say "yes" and just spill everything in one long exhale. 

 

I don't know about everyone but I got real sexual tension vibes from that scene. I know it won't happen because Philip has a lot to lose personally and professionally. Maybe it's the way Sandra proposed it. And you just know that if they start meeting up privately something will happen. I don't want it happen though (and it doesn't make sense from Philip's POV) but there's so much drama potential there. 

[bluebonnet]

I had wondered about that, umbelina.  My speculation was that both of their lives were threatened if the mother didn't push Elizabeth into doing this, especially since E's father was a traitor.  

 

On a different note, I've always wondered about the Russian accents on the show.  Do all those who are normally speaking Russia have native accents?  I had been wondering if we'd see much of the visit between Liz and her mom and figured we wouldn't just because Russell would have had to fumble her way through Russian and the poor accent might be very distracting if all the other Russians have native accents.  

Edited April 23, 2015 by bluebonnet

[chocolatine]

The Commodore 64.  64k RAM, and 30911 bytes free.  OMG.

 

I know, right?! I gasped when I saw that.

 

I thought killing Gene was short-sighted. Once his body and the transmitter are found, the FBI is gonna want to know who he was working for, and when their investigation turns up empty, they're going to smell a rat. But it is a way of taking the heat off Martha for the time being, so good for her, I guess. I do believe that Martha is still alive, because having both Martha and Gene turn up dead in the same week is going to raise more questions with the FBI.

 

The trip to see Elizabeth's mother did seem anti-climatic, because it looked like Elizabeth and Paige saw her for like five minutes (they were still in their jammies when she left), and like they never left their hotel room except for that one walk at night. They should have a least gone sight-seeing so that Paige would have a story to tell about her time in Berlin. Speaking of Berlin, I don't know what Kreuzberg was like in 1983, but for at least the past 20 years it's been a very "hip" neighborhood with lots of graffiti and street art. The area where Elizabeth and Paige were walking at night, and the view from their hotel window, looked nothing like Kreuzberg.

 

Philip is definitely coming undone at an accelerated rate. "I feel like shit every day, Yousaf." Openly disobeying Old Dracula. Going to EST to see what being in control of one's life looks like. I have a feeling things are going to get very ugly for him next season.

 

Finally, I was mad at how everyone forgot about Henry in the last scene. Philip hears Stan's message, but instead of going right then to get his son, he prefers to listen to the BBC. Then Elizabeth and Paige come back from their trip, Elizabeth asks about him, and still nobody thinks of getting him. Then they're watching Reagan's speech on TV and Henry is still playing the football board game with Stan. Seriously???

 

ETA:

On a different note, I've always wondered about the Russian accents on the show.  Do all those who are normally speaking Russia have native accents?

 

 

The actors who play Nina, Oleg, Arkady, Tatiana, Zinaida, and Elizabeth's mother, all have native accents. The men who play Vassili and Anton, not quite. Their Russian is good, but it doesn't sound native. The Vassili actor sounds like he's from another Eastern European country; the Anton actor sounds like he's from Central Asia. And I have to give a shout-out to Keri Russell - it sounds like she practiced really hard for the scene with Elizabeth's mother. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by chocolatine

[Dowel Jones]

Confession generally relates to personal sins/shortcomings that one wishes to admit to in order to attain some absolution.  Telling the pastor about the wrongdoings of someone else wouldn't really fall under the umbrella of confessional confidence, and, even so, at least in the Catholic religion, priests are not always strictly bound by those confessionals when a serious crime has been committed. 

[Anela]

I guess I'm the only one who ddint buy Paige's betrayal. But I didn't. It made no sense to me. Her parents are her protectors and she's just met her maternal grandmother,nit made no sense.

So the season ended and no kimmienwrap up ornthe anti apartheid people. Feh.

I too am surprised EST is more than a joke.. And impressed.

I've now seen several other people respond with what I was  going to say: she only seems to trust Pastor Tim.

 

I have goosebumps after that episode. Matthew Rhys had me worried that he might harm himself, although I don't think he'd do that, because of his children. He looked so dejected, though - I couldn't believe that Elizabeth interrupted him to watch Reagan (although I should have known better).

[Boundary]

Finally, I was mad at how everyone forgot about Henry in the last scene. Philip hears Stan's message, but instead of going right then to get his son, he prefers to listen to the BBC. Then Elizabeth and Paige come back from their trip, Elizabeth asks about him, and still nobody thinks of getting him. Then they're watching Reagan's speech on TV and Henry is still playing the football board game with Stan. Seriously???

 

 

Henry seemed happy and Stan needs company. Besides Stan is way much better as a guardian (in their eyes) than that pastor.

[ruby24]

I wonder if Paige realizes that Pastor Tim is obligated to inform the authorities of a crime like that being committed. It almost makes it seem like P&E really didn't convey just how illegal what they're doing is.

 

By the way, I never saw a scene with Paige asking Elizabeth angrily if spies steal, like we saw in the second half season previews a while back. That must have been deleted, but I would have liked to have seen it, because something else I'm having a hard time believing is how Paige hasn't gotten to the questions of what kinds of things do you do. When finding out someone's a spy, wouldn't almost everyone immediately want to know if they've killed people? She hasn't gotten around to wondering about that stuff yet?

Edited April 23, 2015 by ruby24

[AGuyToo]

Has Elizabeth told Paige anything about the Center's plans for her? Hinted at them in any way?

 

At three moments in this episode, I got the feeling that she had: (1) Paige asks her mother whether she would ever send her away as Elizabeth's own mother had, and Elizabeth responds that that wouldn't ever be required of Paige (which begs the question: how is anything required of Paige?) (2) Paige says she can't do "this" -- can't lie to people her whole life. (3) Paige tells Pastor Tim that not only are her parents liars but they're trying to turn her into a liar too.

 

Maybe all Paige was talking about was the fact that P & E are forcing Paige to keep *their* lie, but, as others have pointed out in this thread, Paige's reaction seemed a little overwrought if that was all.

Edited April 23, 2015 by AGuyToo

[Bannon]

Oh, come on!  You can't end the episode there!

 

Great episode!  Tense as hell with just about everything hitting its mark.  This episode was really about the fracturing of a family.  Elizabeth is still the hardcore Communist but to quote Spock, she's finding out that having (Paige know the truth) is not as pleasing a thing as wanting.  I definitely buy Paige's behavior here.

 

Matthew Rhys turned in another amazing performance...he does incredible work.  Keri Russell was great too, especially when Elizabeth reunites with her mother.  That was a fantastic scene.  How they and this show continue to get looked over at the Emmys is a mystery.

 

Great stuff on the Stan front.  How Stan AND Gaad are able to keep their jobs is another mystery.

 

I liked the Phillip/Sandra interaction a lot and I was a little worried they would have a fling.

 

Phillip murdering that guy was like Elizabeth brutal.  That was a rough one.  I'm surprised that Martha didn't appear but looks like this storyline will continue next season.

 

I think it might be time for Phillip to take Pastor Tim fishing.  Or for Elizabeth to tell him to check under his car.

Phillip and Elizabeth are, unfortunately, the only two consistently well written characters in the show, with the possible exception of Paige Martha had potential, but there is just way too much silliness. Stan once again, in this episode , has to act like a dope, with his hope that the fake defector will be traded for the Soviet prisoner of his choice. The idea that Gaad was playng Stan the whole time, what with his claim that he was recommending that Stan be fired, is interesting, and I hope the writers pursue it. The show may take a distinct turn for the better if this is the end of dopey Stan, and they can cut down on the ridiculous plot arcs.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Bannon

[Umbelina]

Has Elizabeth told Paige anything about the Center's plans for her? Hinted at them in any way?

 

At three moments in this episode, I got the feeling that she had: (1) Paige asks her mother whether she would ever send her away as Elizabeth's own mother had, and Elizabeth responds that that wouldn't ever be required of Paige (which begs the question: how is anything required of Paige?) (2) Paige says she can't do "this" -- can't lie to people her whole life. (3) Paige tells Pastor Tim that not only are her parents liars but they're trying to turn her into a liar too.

 

Maybe all Paige was talking about was the fact that P & E are forcing Paige to keep *their* lie, but, as others have pointed out in this thread, Paige's reaction seemed a little overwrought if that was all.

A couple of the reviewers are thinking the same thing.

 

The idea that Gaad was playng Stan the whole time, what with his claim that he was recommending that Stan be fired, is interesting, and I hope the writers pursue it. The show may take a distinct turn for the better if this is the end of dopey Stan, and they can cut down on the ridiculous plot arcs.

 

Do  you mean playing Oleg?  If you do, yes, payback is a bitch for Oleg.  Although I think Oleg might prefer to defect.

[CarpeDiem54]

Well now we finally have a good reason to kill off Pastor Creepyhair. Guess he won't be coming back from Kenya.

I'm hoping next season that Paige is spirited away in a car, blindfolded, and delivered to an out of the way spot where Granny gives her a talking to that scares the shit out of her. And makes her keep her damned mouth shut.

The meeting with Elizabeth's mother was meh. I was surprised she knew Paige's name. I guess the Center didn't have time to phoney up a "nice life" for her mother in Russia for Paige's (and maybe even Elizabeth's) behalf so they dragged a dying woman to West Berlin?

Yay for a Stan win. Although I don't know what game he's going to play on Oleg now. Oh well, he and Henry seemed happy.

I wanted to hug Phillip. He seemed so lost and alone and Elizabeth would rather listen to Reagan. Her cold hearted stare at the end, with Phillip practically curled into a ball of misery in the background, was chilling.