S01.E09: The Mother

[formerlyfreedom]

Ben’s discovery in the attic further exacerbates his tension with Christy, who, to make matters worse, continues to keep the kids away from him. When Ben finally does get some much needed father-daughter time with Abby at the Christmas fair, an unwelcome guest changes the course of the evening. Meanwhile, after the leak in the crime lab left most of the forensic evidence in Tom’s case unusable, Det. Cornell refuses to sit idly by and wait for everything to be re-tested. She returns to the crime scene, hoping to find something new to drive her towards an arrest.

[Spartan Girl]

Boy Ben has some shitty taste in women. First Christy (who has gone from just being a bitch to a certain word that begins with a c) and now Jess who has gone from Cool Girl to crazy girl.

I don't think she's the killer though, that's way too easy. Sadly I think most viewers on this thread have already guessed the killer...

[TheRabbi]

I think the whole "Jess is crazy" thing kind of came out of left field.  Amazing how many shows whip out the "crazy bipolar" trope.  I'm thinking this forum has already guessed the killer as well.

[sjohnson]

Yes, I think dropping the phone after seeing Cornell was pretty suggestive. And the blood spatter is about the height. 

 

I must say I'm a little shocked they went there. But so far the plot is internally coherent. On one level it's insane, what with incest and torture, but at least in its own terms it seems to be finishing up making sense. This is so rare for a serialized show it may qualify it for a certificate or something. 

 

What's Ben going to do about it? If the show's track record holds, the title is very much about the episode's payoff.

Edited April 27, 2015 by sjohnson

[Madding crowd]

Jess' bipolar thing kind of seems like a huge red herring. I would have thought the nosy neighbors and eager reporters would have someone found out. She did seem pretty angry though. I wasn't sure why Abby dropped the phone but her "I'm daddy's girl" comment was pretty suspicious in light of our master sleuthing here on the board.

 

I still find Dave's character to make no sense because he is always making jokes when Ben is upset and serious about things. Oh yeah, and I really hate Christy. Her brother seem ok, but I don't get the giving her piles of cash to be hidden in the attic. Why couldn't he open a bank account for her or for the girls? 

Edited April 27, 2015 by Madding crowd

[Ms Blue Jay]

The thing is, I feel like this show was really shitty the entire time and then for the past two episodes it was somehow really good and gripping.  I feel like we're all undercover smart for sticking with this for so long and now we're being rewarded.   It makes The Good Wife look like shit, not that that's hard.  I'm having fun.

 

(Same timeslot)  Secrets and Lies  >>>  The Last Man on Earth >>> The Good Wife

 

I never pick up on anything, so at the very least I'm glad I picked up on Jess being overtly sexual and creepy all the time for no reason.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Blue Plastic]

I enjoyed seeing Cornell pick on Christy for a change after enduring weeks of watching her hound Ben with her steely glare.  What was not so fun was seeing Ben make yet more idiotic moves, to wit:

1. Bringing creepy, clingy Jess along to the fair when Abby clearly wanted him to herself and had been concerned that Ben and Jess were a couple
2. Sleeping with creepy, clingy Jess after the fair
3. Sneaking into creepy, clingy Jess' house to snoop around and getting caught (hasn't he done this several times at other people's houses already and he still hasn't learned his lesson?)

 

 

[briochetwist]

 

1. Bringing creepy, clingy Jess along to the fair when Abby clearly wanted him to herself and had been concerned that Ben and Jess were a couple
2. Sleeping with creepy, clingy Jess after the fair
3. Sneaking into creepy, clingy Jess' house to snoop around and getting caught (hasn't he done this several times at other people's houses already and he still hasn't learned his lesson?)

 

Could not believe this!   Talk about sending mixed messages to those kids.  They know about the affair, but rather than distance themselves from Jess, let's act as though we're all still friends.  So incredibly messed up.  And it's obvious who the killer is, and I hate it.

[sjohnson]

I thought Ben felt guilty about blowing off Jess the other time. Also, he really had split with Christy this time, which is rebound time.  That's when a one night stand=Ego boost, especially for a man. And besides, he's still expecting to be arrested after the holiday and it may well be his last time. Personally I keep thinking that the pressure from being a suspect in such a crime would be fantastic and would quickly lead to desperation, with all sorts of effects. It seems kind of smug and unfeeling to assume that the smart people like us are immune to that. 

 

I'm not sure what lesson Ben was supposed to have learned. Getting caught was beside the point, which was exposing all the secrets. He refused to look close to home, so none of the secrets served to exculpate him. But his commitment has served to reveal all the lies. Personally I wouldn't want to look at my own family like a detective, so I sympathize with him on this. I'm not sure if I would if he were smarter and had done so right away. Or even tried to argue Christy's guilt to Cornell to save his own hide. 

 

Christy has a side, I'm sure. Ben insisting on keeping Dave, who detests her, right there in the back yard, was pretty high handed and dismissive of her. Nonetheless I must say I was gratified at her discovery of how fast a bottom line thinker of the kind she admires so very much would dump her. 

Edited April 27, 2015 by sjohnson

[Blue Plastic]

I thought Ben felt guilty about blowing off Jess the other time. Also, he really had split with Christy this time, which is rebound time.  That's when a one night stand=Ego boost, especially for a man. And besides, he's still expecting to be arrested after the holiday and it may well be his last time. Personally I keep thinking that the pressure from being a suspect in such a crime would be fantastic and would quickly lead to desperation, with all sorts of effects. It seems kind of smug and unfeeling to assume that the smart people like us are immune to that. 

I can definitely see all those factors coming into play, I was just wishing he would see that Jess has been acting strangely and keep his distance.  I was especially turned off that when his kids asked him if he and Jess were an item, he told them they weren't and then promptly hopped in the sack with her.

 

I'm not sure what lesson Ben was supposed to have learned. Getting caught was beside the point, which was exposing all the secrets. He refused to look close to home, so none of the secrets served to exculpate him. But his commitment has served to reveal all the lies. Personally I wouldn't want to look at my own family like a detective, so I sympathize with him on this. I'm not sure if I would if he were smarter and had done so right away. Or even tried to argue Christy's guilt to Cornell to save his own hide.

It's not really his "job" to be searching out clues like a junior detective.  About the only thing I can think of that he has discovered that Cornell didn't know about was that Linda was the crime lab leak.  Other than that, every time he has gone sleuthing he has just uncovered some other family's dirt, causing a scene but finding nothing that has furthered his own cause.  He wouldn't like that to be done to him and also it makes him look bad, like a nut that goes around wildly attacking innocent neighbors.  He's snooped around and pried into just about every house on the block.  He's the one that's expecting to be arrested soon - he doesn't need any extra trouble.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Blue Plastic

[Andromeda]

This show got really good when I least expected it to. Now it's pointing at Jess, which seems to fit with her weird upbeat way of talking about her dead son. And did she really kidnap Ben's girl just because she's pissed and wants to hurt him? Pretty psycho even if she's not the murderer. I don't know who you guys are expecting it to be, I haven't read the speculation. I'm just glad it finally moved off of Ben, because that was getting old. Littlest daughter is acting a little weird, too. That would be a cool twist -- poor Ben if that's the case. He does drive me up the wall with his snooping. Just call Cornell, tell her about the blue jacket and pills, and step out of the way.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Andromeda

[Laurie4H]

Doesn't anyone have home security systems on these shows?

[BeatrixK]

Major plot hole, IMHO:  Jess suddenly has a first dead kid....and NO ONE knows about it?  They can figure out dead kid #2's lineage and publish it in the paper, but Dead Kid #1 is all 'Gosh, we had no idea?"

 

Seems like something that would have set Cornell off into a feeding frenzy looking at a mother with a horrible track record of keeping her kids alive.

 

And, with all Ben's amateur sleuthing, he needs to paint his van psychedelic colors and grab Velma, Daphne, Fred and Scooby and go hunt for ghosts while he's at it.

[Sandman]

So this show seems to have a pretty regular pattern:

 

• Previously unknown information is revealed each week about one of the neighbours (example of titular "secret" or "lie"?);
• Ben jumps to erroneous conclusion based on this information;
• Ben jumps in the Mystery Machine or stomps over to neighbour's house, yelling and/or hamfistedly "investigating" on his own based on above conclusion; makes self look more guilty or places self in easily avoidable danger;
• Christy does something randomly self-centered and awful;
• Backyard Dave is sophomorically high/calls Christy a rude name;
• Ben apologizes to daughters for their mother's self-involved randomness;
• New example of creepy behaviour by another neighbour; go to Step 1.

 

I did enjoy seeing Detective Cornell turn her wall-eyed glare on Christy for a change. But the idea that Jess was being treated for mood disorders or potential violent outbursts is not a thing that should be revealed in Episode 9 of 10, I think.

 

ETA: I thought Jess was acting oddly, but I put that down mostly to shock. It took a turn for the truly weird when she sighed (post-coitally) that she and Ben "could make another." That's when I started yelling "That's a red alert, Ben! It's Monkey-boiler time!" Of course, I'd just got done rolling my eyes at him for falling into bed with Jess again. That just wasn't believable, but I think there's a Philippe-skin minimum per episode they have to meet.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Sandman

[vibeology]

 I wasn't sure why Abby dropped the phone but her "I'm daddy's girl" comment was pretty suspicious in light of our master sleuthing here on the board.

 

Abby dropped her phone because she saw her Dad with Jess and wanted the attention. I think that she dropped her phone and stomped on it and screamed to stop them from being together. The timing of it if it was an accident was too perfect.

[Blue Plastic]

Major plot hole, IMHO:  Jess suddenly has a first dead kid....and NO ONE knows about it?  They can figure out dead kid #2's lineage and publish it in the paper, but Dead Kid #1 is all 'Gosh, we had no idea?"

 

Seems like something that would have set Cornell off into a feeding frenzy looking at a mother with a horrible track record of keeping her kids alive.

 

And, with all Ben's amateur sleuthing, he needs to paint his van psychedelic colors and grab Velma, Daphne, Fred and Scooby and go hunt for ghosts while he's at it.

Yep to all of the above.  Plus she names her kids "Jane" and "Tom"?

 

Abby dropped her phone because she saw her Dad with Jess and wanted the attention. I think that she dropped her phone and stomped on it and screamed to stop them from being together. The timing of it if it was an accident was too perfect.

I guess Cornell saw that too because she really was at the fair - Ben had mentioned that he thought he caught a glimpse of her earlier.

 

I am getting disgustingly excited for the finale!  It'd better be good.  This show had major pacing problems - no way some of this stuff should be coming to light only now.  Most of the episodes have been filler.  The torture episode and all episodes where we found out a "secret or lie" about some other family that had nothing to do with whodunit were all filler.  But now that we're getting to the episodes that finally bring the plot along and give some real hints and answers, I'm hooked.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Blue Plastic

[sjohnson]

We never have known why Cornell never seriously considered Jess. Given an explanation of why she's kind of weird (which I think she has been pretty much from the beginning,) I'm tempted to think the night of the murder was a night when she was taking her meds. When the cops informed her, she was not in the right condition, i.e., too groggy all night, for this kind of murder? And maybe this was confirmed by blood tests on her medications? 

 

But I'm probably stretching. This show seems to be fairly tightly plotted, especially for contemporary serial TV, but that's a pretty low bar. It must be tempting if you're writing mystery to get all sloppy.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Too groggy for the murder?  I don't think so.  Their main suspect has always been Ben who finally found out he had been drugged and even Cornell herself thought experienced a blackout whilst committing the murder.

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm not sure how you can be more of a freak than to horn in on a father and child outing when you are clearly not welcomed by the child and then CONTINUE to horn in when you are told you aren't wanted.  To suffer from depression and have had her only child recently murdered, she sure seemed chipper to visit the carnival.  Reminds me of the defendant IRL that throw her murdered child a birthday party on his freshly dug grave.  What a freak.  And I guess that answers my question as to why Ben slept with her.  She's a freak.  

 

I'm determined to hang in there for the finale, but OMG, it's tough for me to take that lady detective seriously.  It's like she's in a cartoon or something.  I find her attempts to portray a tough detective so hysterical.  At least it's amusing.  lol  

Edited April 27, 2015 by SunnyBeBe

[Andromeda]

I'm not sure how you can be more of a freak than to horn in on a father and child outing when you are clearly not welcomed by the child and then CONTINUE to horn in when you are told you aren't wanted.  To suffer from depression and have had her only child recently murdered, she sure seemed chipper to visit the carnival.  Reminds me of the defendant IRL that throw her murdered child a birthday party on his freshly dug grave.  What a freak.  And I guess that answers my question as to why Ben slept with her.  She's a freak.  

 

I'm determined to hang in there for the finale, but OMG, it's tough for me to take that lady detective seriously.  It's like she's in a cartoon or something.  I find her attempts to portray a tough detective so hysterical.  At least it's amusing.  lol

Yeah, Jess's attitude has never made sense to me, she's always seemed really accepting or OK with the fact her son was murdered. Just a couple of weeks (days?) have gone by, and you'd think the kid went to live with relatives and would be back in a few.

As for Cornell -- she's just really weird, too.

ITA with the point above about how did no one know Jess had another dead kid. That's the sort of factoid that would have rung all kinds of alarm bells in real life.

I am going to guess that the big reveal from the spatter analysis has to do with the height of the perpetrator, because I can't think what else it would be. Which could point to a child instead of an adult, unless the adult was on his/her knees -- not impossible.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Andromeda

[sjohnson]

As Cornell herself said in the online Cornell Confidential, she's intractable. I thought finding out Ben was drugged was a severe blow to the case against him. Unless she thought Ben and Dave were lying, though who knows why Dave would lie, any more than Nicole lied about Scott, I think she should have at last started looking at alternative theories of the murder. Which maybe she did?

 

PS The most recent Cornell Confidential is up. I guess we know why Jess was smiling. (No, not a spoiler, a speculation.)

[dustoffmom]

sjohnson......color me dense I suppose, but you lost me.  Who the hell is Nicole and Scott????

[sjohnson]

Sorry, Jess' sister and husband, who said they were canoodling on the night in question. They alibi each other.

[KaveDweller]

 

I enjoyed seeing Cornell pick on Christy for a change after enduring weeks of watching her hound Ben with her steely glare.  What was not so fun was seeing Ben make yet more idiotic moves, to wit:

1. Bringing creepy, clingy Jess along to the fair when Abby clearly wanted him to herself and had been concerned that Ben and Jess were a couple
2. Sleeping with creepy, clingy Jess after the fair
3. Sneaking into creepy, clingy Jess' house to snoop around and getting caught (hasn't he done this several times at other people's houses already and he still hasn't learned his lesson?)

 

Ben is pretty much an idiot, so it makes sense that he does idiotic things.

 

I don't think Jess is the killer, I think the out of nowhere crazy-ness is a red herring.  I can get Ben not knowing she had another dead kid, but the cops should have learned that ages ago.

[Laurie4H]

Whoever killed Tom put the flashlight in Bens truck. If it was Jess was she framing him? If it was Abby, did she just quickly hide it without thinking? It would be crazy if Dave ended up being the killer.

[mertensia]

Wow Juliette Lewis is looking more and more like her dad.

Why did Michael suddenly change his mind and let Abby stay with Ben?

Frankly I love that Dave thinks it's Christy.

[GracieK]

Have we forgotten why Dave had the money to pay the bar tab last episode?  Maybe a red herring and I don't think he's the killer, but I'd like to know what that connection is.  If it means nothing I'll be disappointed as it seemed to point to something.  I thought the locking/unlocking of the doors in Jess' house meant something too.  I guess it still could be important.  What about Ben asking Abby about where the key to Jess' house was?  She didn't really seem to know... Natalie would have known.  

 

I buy that it's a woman.  It's a water death and that seems to point to Jess.. a more humane end perpetuated by the mother (and a character that has annoyed me from the start).. but now it seems to point to Abby.  But would a child so young premeditate a water murder?  I have a hard time buying that.  I also agree with another poster's guess that Abby stomped her phone to get attention from her Dad.  She asked if Mom was going to be upset... seems like she really is trying to get attention.

 

I really liked Christy's brother, Michael, this episode. But maybe that's the thing that will throw us... it's him?  They are pointing us to a female so maybe that is throwing us?.... but  really what could his motivation be?  Protective over his sister?  She's seeing someone else and she's shared with him that Ben's affair has been confirmed.  But it isn't like he knew Tom was Ben's son.  So was he collateral damage?

 

I really think they gave us a huge clue in showing it should have been a water murder.  Does anyone know what it was Cornell found?  I rewound it a few times but didn't catch what it was.  

[briochetwist]

I really liked Christy's brother, Michael, this episode. But maybe that's the thing that will throw us... it's him? 

At this point, he's the only decent human being left in this show. 

[RedheadZombie]

Why did Michael suddenly change his mind and let Abby stay with Ben?

Because he realized Christie lied about Ben being in a relationship with Jess. Maybe he then questioned other things she'd told him.

[GracieK]

I remember the previews last week showing Abby in front of an opaque wall reacting to blood splatter.. now we obviously know that is the forensics lab where they were testing blood splatter patterns.  I think that may point to the fact that it's her.  

[CountryCrazy]

I liked the twists and turns in this Isolde but hate Ben having sex with Jess and it made Ben look weak to me ! I really like Ben but his boinking Jess not long after his Daughter accuses him of wanting to be with Jess was major bad timing imo and seemed put in there for plot especially after he started putting the pieces together but still he could have figured that out without screwing her so ,,, and I still this the Daughter did it and felt that way at since the get go as she was always clearly established a daddy girl and had resentment he was spending way too much time with the boy !

[SunnyBeBe]

I couldn't tell what she found at the scene, besides the blood on the tree, but perhaps it was something only a female would have dropped, like lipstick or hair pin.  But, why would you have those things with you at a murder scene? Hmmmm......I don't know.  Hopefully, it'll make sense.

[nara]

Is it really true that water deaths are typically a female MO? I get that with bathtub drownings, but in a river?

[hawk09]

It really irritated me when they turned the story line into a twist showing Ben snooping around Jess's house and finding her pills.  Yes, lithium is used for Bipolar Disorder, but they carried it too far showing Jess going crazy.  We are supposed to be changing people's thoughts and educating them about mental illness, not creating more stigma.

 

I found this post from PsychCentral

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/being-bipolar/2015/04/27/the-portrayal-of-bipolar-disorder-on-abcs-secret-and-lies/

 

[sjohnson]

I don't think it's crazy to throw something at a guy who you think loves you yet is still seriously wondering if you murdered your son. I think it's called losing your temper.

 

The part about making a new baby was the one part I thought was weird, and kind of offensive because it didn't seem appropriate to Jess' situation. Or to her diagnosis either I think. 

 

The sister explicitly saying that Jess only trashed things, not people and emphasizing the usual I thought was supposed to be the show's viewpoint. Seriously considering Jess as a suspect because she's bipolar I think is supposed to be foolishness that Ben buys into because he's desperate, cracking under the strain and not a very good detective. 

[Andromeda]

Is it really true that water deaths are typically a female MO? I get that with bathtub drownings, but in a river?

I wondered that, too. I thought of Susan Smith (I remember my mom saying she was guilty the moment we heard about it.) Susan Smith used a car and a river. And there's Andrea Yates (psychotic woman, bathtub drownings, not premeditated). Then there's this guy who is accused of a drowning murder in Lake Ontario. I know poison is traditionally considered a more female method of murder, but there are women who hack and slash (Lizzie Borden, Jodi Arias), so I don't think there can be generalities in quite the way Cornell stated it. 

 

ETA: And sometimes texting with another mother of your children makes your girlfriend stab you.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Andromeda

[Ms Blue Jay]

I don't think it's crazy to throw something at a guy who you think loves you yet is still seriously wondering if you murdered your son. I think it's called losing your temper.

 

Not sure how Jess would get the impression that Ben loves her though.  That's too much of a leap.  It's more like the anger of being accused of something you think you would never do, which I understand more.

[nara]

Not sure how Jess would get the impression that Ben loves her though.  That's too much of a leap.  It's more like the anger of being accused of something you think you would never do, which I understand more.

He slept with her, is constantly helping her and her son, is clearly at odds with his wife. I think there's enough there to convince her that he might be in love with her. Add some mental instability and the delusion could easily grow stronger.

[GracieK]

Did anyone else notice how quick Natalie was to say no to going to the fireworks?  She just wanted to get out of there and said "Abby needs you now".  Is it because she did it and doesn't want to be close to the crime scene or is it because she knows something about Abby doing it and wants to distance herself? 

[Chairperson Meow]

The one time Ben should call Cornell - Jess throws scissors at his head- he calls Dave instead. But, a neighbor kid skips school and he's at the police station? It says a lot to the likability of Ryan Phillipe that I've stayed with this show this long. With another lead, I don't think I'd have cared about poor, dumb Ben.

[nb360]

 

I am getting disgustingly excited for the finale! 

How many more episodes are there?

[buckbuck]

 

I enjoyed seeing Cornell pick on Christy for a change after enduring weeks of watching her hound Ben with her steely glare. 

 

I did as well. Nice to see her being in the receiving end, especially as she was so helpful to Cornell at the beginning.

 

I know I'm in the minority but I like Juliette Lewis' portrayal. I'm used to seeing her in flamboyent roles so it's nice to see her act all uptight and reined in. I read that she met with several female homicide detectives and combined characteristics of all of them but used one in particular as the basis for her portrayal.

I couldn't tell what she found at the scene, besides the blood on the tree, but perhaps it was something only a female would have dropped, like lipstick or hair pin.  But, why would you have those things with you at a murder scene? Hmmmm......I don't know.  Hopefully, it'll make sense.

I couldn't make it out either but I read that it was a toy tank.

[buckbuck]

PS The most recent Cornell Confidential is up. I guess we know why Jess was smiling. (No, not a spoiler, a speculation.)

Can you share the info?  I'm in Canada and haven't found an online source for those that will play to Canadian ISPs.

[Sandman]

Yeah -- Jess throws a pair of scissors at Ben's head, and the point of one blade ends up driven a quarter-inch into the door! I think the fact that Jess is a bipolar ninja is information that was also unfairly held back.

[sjohnson]

Can you share the info?  I'm in Canada and haven't found an online source for those that will play to Canadian ISPs.

Cornell is at the cop shop and gets a call from Elaine. She tells Cornell that Ben asked her to call about Abby being missing. She asks for a unit to go check it out. Then after she gets off the phone with Elaine, another cop comes up and says she's got new troubles at her "cul-de-sac of crazy." There has been a complaint file: "She" says "he" raped her. My speculation is that Jess' eerie smile is about her getting even with Ben's disloyalty by accusing him of rape.

[formerlyfreedom]

How many more episodes are there?

 

This coming Sunday's is the season finale.

[Sandman]

Isn't the premise kind of a single-season thing? Has there been confirmation of a second season? I'm having trouble imagining what a second season would look like; Ben moves to another neighbourhood, even more judgmental and (secretly and lying-ly) evil/crazy than his old one?

Or would it be the Further Adventures of Stoneface McGlarypants, Murder Police?

[Texasmom1970]

Is it wrong of me that I am still hoping the killer is Uber bitchy Christy, I so want to see her ass go to jail.

Ben was stupid for sleeping with Jess again. But damn get that woman medicated stat she is going full on "Fatal Attraction"!

[nara]

Is it wrong of me that I am still hoping the killer is Uber bitchy Christy, I so want to see her ass go to jail.

As much as I dislike Christy, if Ben behaved as stupidly as he's behaved over the past few weeks during the entire span of their marriage, I can see how she became bitchy!

[Texasmom1970]

As much as I dislike Christy, if Ben behaved as stupidly as he's behaved over the past few weeks during the entire span of their marriage, I can see how she became bitchy!

I think the writers are showing us how being wrongly accused and having your life torn apart by all the backlash makes you insane. But then again you never know he might just be an idiot all the time!