Athena April 16, 2015 Share April 16, 2015 Episode Synopsis: Arya arrives in Braavos. Pod and Brienne run into trouble on the road. Cersei fears for her daughter's safety in Dorne as Ellaria Sand seeks revenge for Oberyn's death. Stannis tempts Jon. An adviser tempts Dany. Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into a potential spoiler you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags. 1 Link to comment
Mya Stone April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I'm just going to sit here and wait to see what most people thought. I will say this much - welcome back, Hottie H'Ger. 5 Link to comment
Pete Martell April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I haven't read as far in the books - did Jon's election also come across like a pep rally in that? Was Arya's story this dull? 1 Link to comment
Shanna April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I'm just going to sit here and wait to see what most people thought. I will say this much - welcome back, Hottie H'Ger. I love jacquen!!! I will say, this is episode was everything I wanted the first to be. 1 Link to comment
elzin April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Holy shitballs that was a fucking mess. It had some really good moments. Lyanna Mormont's letter made it! Samwell! But it just didn't overall make sense. 1 Link to comment
Moya the Leviathan April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 A woman is pleased with the return of a familiar face Very, very pleased. a woman is even more pleased to know this face returns next week. 22 Link to comment
magdalene April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Well, I liked that so much better than last week. I was genuinely riveted and excited throughout. Brienne! What a warrior. Jaime getting something interesting to do.. Welcome back, non-Jaqen/Tom Wlashiha. Link to comment
Winnief April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I don't care how good the production values are-or even how fabulous Drogon is...I just cannot get interested in Dany in Mereen. That is not a slight on the show...I just don't care about Mereen or Dany that much. Now Arya in Braavos on the other hand...Braavos is everything I dreamed and more....and it's so the perfect city for our feral little Arya even though I'm sure she goes back to Westeros someday. Liked Brienne with LF and Sansa...so Sansa now has a secret protector which could be very important in the days ahead if the rumors are true. Really enjoyed everything at the Wall, but the more darling and wonderful Shireen is, the more I fear she won't be with us much longer. Sob. God her mother creeps me out. Jaime and Bronn are off on a road trip....YAY!!! Cersei's in charge in KL...Seven Save Us All. We got Jaqen Hagar back-some of the best eye candy EVER on the show. 6 Link to comment
Tara Ariano April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Nick's post on the episode: The Dorne Ultimatum Jaime's heading south to rescue his daughter, but he's going to need a hand. (NO JOKES, GUYS.) 3 Link to comment
Mya Stone April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I haven't read as far in the books - did Jon's election also come across like a pep rally in that? Was Arya's story this dull? Jon's election took place in the third book, before the battle of the Wall, Pete. And no, it wasn't as rah rah in the books. It had a cool element with Mormont's raven. Arya was immediately granted entrance into the House of Black and White. I'm not sure why they chose to have her not be granted entrance right away on the show. 2 Link to comment
benteen April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) I really enjoyed this one. Despite the changes, I thought it worked in just about every way. Some changes to Cersei's character but we are seeing her Small Council being formed and how she's going to be making the first of many mistakes. Loved seeing Kevan's dressing her down. Shireen teaching Gilly? Unexpected but loved that scene with them and Sam. Everything with Jon Snow worked. Glad they included that bit with Lyanna Mormont's (now the Lady of Bear Island apparently) letter to Stannis and Jon laughing about it. The election of the next Lord Commander might have been a lot shorter than what I expected but I thought the scene was excellent. Loved Sam dressing down Slynt and loved Aemon being the one to cast the deciding vote. Short but it worked. Didn't expect Brienne and Sansa to come face-to-face but interesting stuff nonetheless. Though I'm very worried about hearing Littlefinger talk about his marriage proposal. Loved Braavos and so good seeing Arya back. I liked the show's Lloys Stokeworth but looks like that's probably the only time we'll see her. At least this explains why Bronn is going to help Jaime. Like the way Dany's storyline is going and it allowed the Mad King to be brought up again. Edited April 20, 2015 by benteen 7 Link to comment
Shanna April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Dark wings dark words. Fu to littlefinger! Loved Jons election. I too loved Lyannas statement and Jon snickering at it in front of stannis. I don't know why they messed around with aryas intro but it was ok by me. I guess jacquen is the kindly man too? Edited April 20, 2015 by Shanna 3 Link to comment
Winnief April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Everything with Jon Snow worked. Glad they included that bit with Lyanna Mormont's (now the Lady of Bear Island apparently) letter to Stannis. It also helps set up the Northern Conspiracy angle, by showing the North is still diehard loyal to the Starks...as the Boltons are soon going to learn. Hopefully in as painful a manner as possible. 13 Link to comment
Mya Stone April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I think the kindly man just took Jaqen's face to be more familiar to the audience and Arya. I am eternally grateful. ;) Also intriguing bit about greyscale. Thinking we'll likely get the bridge of sorrows and the stone men in the show. 13 Link to comment
TexasChic April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Jaime and Bronn, Arya in Braavos (with Jaqen Hagar no less), Drogon! Squeeee! Link to comment
HeySandyStrange April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Too much Dany and her ill-advised vacation spot Mereen. Seriously, Tyrion and Varys can't arrive soon enough, they are the only ones who can enliven Dany's plot imo. Not nearly enough Dorne, Jamie+Bronn, Arya and A Man, and Crazy Queen Cersei. I was so thrilled that they added Lyanna Mormont's letter! I love that badass little girl. 6 Link to comment
LanceM April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Loved the episode. Dany's story in Meereen these first two episodes have been fantastic. Loved that they included Lyanna Mormont's letter. Loved that that they kept the bit about people showing up to Cersei with random dwarf heads. Loved Cersei and her small council and Kevan's take down of her. Not sure what to make of Sansa's storyline yet. 4 Link to comment
beeble April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Daenerys needs the Veep crew hanging out with her to get better political advice. Arya wants to kill Cersei because Cersei ordered Nymeria to be killed (even though in the end it was Lady who was killed and Nymeria who was forced to flee). Do not get between a girl and her dire wolf. Edited April 20, 2015 by beeble 4 Link to comment
Moya the Leviathan April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Jaime and Bronn are off on a road trip....YAY!!! I smell one-liners, people. And possibly a sight gag in our future. 5 Link to comment
nksarmi April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 It also helps set up the Northern Conspiracy angle, by showing the North is still diehard loyal to the Starks...as the Boltons are soon going to learn. Hopefully in as painful a manner as possible. Oh to see the Bolton's suffer! I know Sansa has her fans, but I cannot stand her. From the moment she was introduced - she has trusted and sided with the wrong people. I don't want her hurt, but dear lord - I want her to get a clue. 4 Link to comment
ihartcoffee April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Was Arya's story this dull? Yes it was. It takes a while before anything interesting happens. IMO at least. 5 Link to comment
benteen April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Also, Qyburn is back and as creepy as ever! Have to admit too, I loved Daario stabbing that guy through the wall. So far, Season 5 has been good to his character. Edited April 20, 2015 by benteen 1 Link to comment
CherryMalotte April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 See, I am disliking and liking Dany's story - she's making some huge errors and taking the hard road to true queen lessons. Which are useful mind you, just painful to watch. It was rather sweet and heartbreaking to see her reach for Drogon. Oh Jon, I so enjoyed you having a giggle in front of Stannis. I also think it was important to show the Mormont response because it will have later echos thru the series. This Sansa stuff...I'm not digging it. Not at all. I don't mind that they deviated from the books, I expected that as the series went on but...nope. I just hope there's a decent payoff later. A woman here is also pleased to see No One. Long may the training be at the House Of Black And White. 6 Link to comment
Pete Martell April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Arya was immediately granted entrance into the House of Black and White. I'm not sure why they chose to have her not be granted entrance right away on the show. Thanks. Maybe they wanted us to get one last look at who Arya was before she changes. All I know is it means she stops muttering that list and doing Garbo faces in every scene, it will be an improvement. This Sansa stuff...I'm not digging it. Not at all. I don't mind that they deviated from the books, I expected that as the series went on but...nope. I just hope there's a decent payoff later. I wasn't expecting it to be this lackluster. Everything about it comes across like a syndicated drama from 15 years ago. I keep expecting Joxer to pop in. 3 Link to comment
Izzyboy April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Really glad to see Bronn back. That was an unexpected and welcome surprise. Jerome Flynn is so good in that role! Speaking of long time no sees, very cool to see Tom Wlaschiha back as well! I do think it will probably help people have a little bit of familiarity with that role (which is funny considering the Faceless Men are all about the exact opposite). Overall I thought it was stronger than the first episode, it went by noticeably faster. Link to comment
Mya Stone April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I smell one-liners, people. And possibly a sight gag in our future. How many hands does it take to get into Dorne? One! One VERY dead one! Eh...it was funnier in my head. 4 Link to comment
benteen April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Reading an interview with Gwedoline Christie on the EW website. She mentions in the script there is a reference that Sansa shoots Brienne a look with her eyes, kind of a "get the **** out of dodge" message. Appreciated the little details during the election too, like Sam acknowledging Ser Alliser fought bravely and Ser Alliser admitting he couldn't argue with what Sam said about Jon. 2 Link to comment
hendersonrocks April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Daenerys is a REALLY shitty ruler/queen/mhysa. I hope some competence comes quickly--even better if it's in the form of Varys & Tyrion--because watching her fuck up over and over and over again is getting kind of old. Jaqen: Rawr. Bronn & Jaime: Made of win. Gilly & Shireen: Adorbs. Sansa: You're starting to scare me, girl. 3 Link to comment
Shanna April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Drogon was always Danys favorite... Edited April 20, 2015 by Shanna 2 Link to comment
Pete Martell April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Reading an interview with Gwedoline Christie on the EW website. She mentions in the script there is a reference that Sansa shoots Brienne a look with her eyes, kind of a "get the **** out of dodge" message. Appreciated the little details during the election too, like Sam acknowledging Ser Alliser fought bravely and Ser Alliser admitting he couldn't argue with what Sam said about Jon. It would have been nice if they'd let us see that, but then that would have involved actually giving Sansa a POV. I agree about Alliser. He does have some honor, which makes him more dangerous than Slynt. 2 Link to comment
Winnief April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I agree about Alliser. He does have some honor, which makes him more dangerous than Slynt. Alliser is clearly being set up to take on the Bowen Marsh role and frankly I like what they're doing there. Making him and Jon have a begrudging respect for one another makes the whole thing much more interesting. All the talk about greyscale may be foreshadowing. JonCon's not around to get it, but Jorah or even Varys might...Seven Hells for that matter, there was even the possibility in the books that Tyrion might get greyscale from the inside which would be an especially cruel irony since of the symptoms of that is the afflicted person gradually loses the ability to speak as well as paralysis-and we all know how Tyrion values his quick tongue. But yeah, SOMEBODY is going to get a lethal case of greyscale I'm sure, and it ain't gonna be pretty. 3 Link to comment
Mya Stone April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 It would have been nice if they'd let us see that, but then that would have involved actually giving Sansa a POV. I agree about Alliser. He does have some honor, which makes him more dangerous than Slynt. I'd argue that Alliser's honor makes him less dangerous than Slynt. I think Slynt plays dirty - although he's a coward, he doesn't like to back a losing side. (Re: Ned's betrayal.) I think his hate of Jon is worse than Alliser's. ETA: If he is being given the Bowen Marsh treatment, it makes sense that they have a layered, begrudging respect. I like that almost better than the book's version. 3 Link to comment
Pete Martell April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I'd argue that Alliser's honor makes him less dangerous than Slynt. I think Slynt plays dirty - although he's a coward, he doesn't like to back a losing side. (Re: Ned's betrayal.) I think his hate of Jon is worse than Alliser's. ETA: If he is being given the Bowen Marsh treatment, it makes sense that they have a layered, begrudging respect. I like that almost better than the book's version. I think Slynt is an idiot, which can be bad, but to me someone who knows both sides is more dangerous. He also made good arguments against Jon (to the group anyway). 1 Link to comment
NJ RadioGuy April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Dany just basically pulled a Robb Stark with the former slave and adviser she had executed. Just as Robb disregarded Blackfish's advice and shortened Karstark by a head, Dany equally ignores Ser Barristan's wise advice. But unlike Robb, in this case the person who passed the sentence wasn't the one who swung the arakh, and that speaks to her character. Daenerys' plot armor bothers me in both mediums. Generally in the world of Ice and Fire, if you're too stupid to live, you usually don't. I did like most of the other threads in the episode but the King's Landing stuff with Cersei seemed pretty weak to me. Loved the election at The Wall and especially Lyanna Mormont's missive to Stannis. Braavos was great, the sight of Dorne was impressive and I loved Doran, but I fear the Dornish aspects of the story will be as mind-numbingly boring as they were in AFfC. I hope I'm wrong. I'm now officially worried for both Shireen and TriPod, And I'm 99.9% sure that Bronn will become the new Aerys Oakheart. There's only one scene I'm really looking forward to in the coming weeks, and it involves Dolorous Edd fetching something nice and heavy. Edited April 20, 2015 by NJ RadioGuy 5 Link to comment
SilverShadow April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I think Alister's the frontrunner for "Most Likely To Stab Jon" but there's been a lot of Olly, the boy whose parents got killed, these past two episodes. And he's clearly put Jon on a pedestal. What if Jon knocks himself off it, maybe by showing too much clemency to the Wildlings or doing something else that "betrays the watch." I think the kid's a dark horse that might just be the one to do it. Although, since he's such a good archer, maybe he snipes Jon instead, which would also call back to Mance. Maybe it would even be a mercy killing in a similar way. Though I don't think Jon's gonna be really most sincerely dead in either books or show. 4 Link to comment
Avaleigh April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Cersei speaks pretty freely about the incest considering how the walls in King's Landing supposedly have ears. I'm surprised that Petyr and Sansa would stop off at such a small inn. Too bad Sansa and Arya both declined having the best sworn shield they could ever hope to have. It's obvious why they both have trust issues but it also couldn't be more plain that Brienne is about as sincere as they come. I laughed out loud at how much taller Gwendolyn Christie is than Aiden Gillen. I'm really curious about what Selyse's role is going to be with regard to Shireen's fate. I can't tell if she'll be on board for burning her kid up or not. I didn't even realize that Meryn Trant was on Arya's list. Oh she's totally going to get his ass. I'm now officially worried for both Shireen and TriPod, And I'm 99.9% sure that Bronn will become the new Aerys Oakheart. Damn it, I think you're right. That totally bums me out. 2 Link to comment
Winnief April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Dany just basically pulled a Robb Stark with the former slave and adviser she had executed. Just as Robb disregarded Blackfish's advice and shortened Karstark by a head, Dany equally ignores Ser Barristan's wise advice. But unlike Robb, in this case the person who passed the sentence wasn't the one who swung the arakh, and that speaks to her character. Daenerys' plot armor bothers me in both mediums. Generally in the world of Ice and Fire, if you're too stupid to live, you usually don't. Not to mention how irritating it is that (as one of the Unsullied even pointed out,) she's using Mereen as 'practice' to screw up however badly before she takes her 'true crown.' Not loving the racial politics there. There's only one scene I'm really looking forward to in the coming weeks, and it involves Dolorous Edd fetching something nice and heavy. We all look forward to that, but I do have some hopes for Frey Pie as well. 2 Link to comment
LanceM April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Dany just basically pulled a Robb Stark with the former slave and adviser she had executed. Just as Robb disregarded Blackfish's advice and shortened Karstark by a head, Dany equally ignores Ser Barristan's wise advice. But unlike Robb, in this case the person who passed the sentence wasn't the one who swung the arakh, and that speaks to her character. Daenerys' plot armor bothers me in both mediums. Generally in the world of Ice and Fire, if you're too stupid to live, you usually don't. . She didn't ignore Barristan's advice, quite the opposite. She was planning on giving the son of the harpy a fair trial as Barristan recommended before Mossador killed him. 6 Link to comment
Winnief April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 Though I don't think Jon's gonna be really most sincerely dead in either books or show. No Mel will resurrect him all right-probably right on the funeral pyre, but he'll be 'dead' just long enough to get him out of his NW vows. 1 Link to comment
Avaleigh April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 The scene with Kevan was actually my favorite. He's definitely Tywin's brother. I only wish they'd given him a scene with Jaime too. I also liked Barristan's counsel. 8 Link to comment
benteen April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I think Alister's the frontrunner for "Most Likely To Stab Jon" but there's been a lot of Olly, the boy whose parents got killed, these past two episodes. And he's clearly put Jon on a pedestal. What if Jon knocks himself off it, maybe by showing too much clemency to the Wildlings or doing something else that "betrays the watch." I think the kid's a dark horse that might just be the one to do it. Although, since he's such a good archer, maybe he snipes Jon instead, which would also call back to Mance. Maybe it would even be a mercy killing in a similar way. Though I don't think Jon's gonna be really most sincerely dead in either books or show. While I still think it needs to be a conspiracy (including Thorne and other NW leaders) I'm very much leaning towards Olly being the one to actually stab Jon. It makes so much sense when you think about it...the Wildlings murdered and freakin ate his parents. I can't imagine him being thrilled with Jon's policy towards them. It would be shocking in general to see him plunge a knife in Jon's chest and one he won't see coming. 2 Link to comment
Independent George April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) I know Sansa has her fans, but I cannot stand her. From the moment she was introduced - she has trusted and sided with the wrong people. I don't want her hurt, but dear lord - I want her to get a clue. The really weird thing is - and I can't believe I'm saying this - siding with Littlefinger is probably her best move. What's Brienne's long-term plan? What can Brienne really do to keep her safe, except maybe cross the narrow sea where they can live in exile for a few years before getting tracked down by Cersei's assassins? And making an enemy of Littlefinger in the process? No, Littlefinger can't be trusted, but... to paraphrase a line from Jackie Brown, he can be trusted to be Littlefinger. Sansa will be protected as long as she's worth more to him alive than dead. Sure, he'll betray her if things start going badly and it looks like her death can benefit him, but he'll also back her to his utmost if she looks like the strong horse. And I know it's tautological, as long as he's backing her, she is the strong horse. I'm not sure how I feel about this episode in general. There were some nice character moments, but it suffers from the same weakness that a lot of episodes do - it's spending way too much time establishing a setting than moving forward with the story. Arya's Braavos subplot is a perfect example - why add an extra 7-8 minutes of her doing nothing, rather than push her straight into the House of Black & White to begin her training? Edited April 20, 2015 by Independent George 15 Link to comment
Avaleigh April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Couldn't Sansa have had Brienne as her sworn shield in addition to still being with Littlefinger? All she'd have to do is tell Brienne about what she thinks Littlefinger's history with Catelyn was. When Kevan said that he was going back to Casterly Rock I half expected Cersei to tell him that it was hers now and that she'd have his head if she found out that he was putting his feet up there without her consent. Edited April 20, 2015 by Avaleigh 2 Link to comment
Lady S. April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I'm now officially worried for both Shireen and TriPod, And I'm 99.9% sure that Bronn will become the new Aerys Oakheart. Bronn's a goner, Jaime's promise of a better wife and a better castle sealed it for me. People never get to fulfill promises on this show. 3 Link to comment
SeanC April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I know Sansa has her fans, but I cannot stand her. From the moment she was introduced - she has trusted and sided with the wrong people. I don't want her hurt, but dear lord - I want her to get a clue. She has no reason to trust Brienne -- same as Arya, who also turned her down. 3 Link to comment
mac123x April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I was kind of bored. This was more setup. They kicked off one set of storylines last week, and cleaned up the remaining ones this week. Hopefully something will actually happen next week. The former Masters in Meereen hate Dany. Now the former slaves are hissing at her and throwing rocks. Why is she hanging around, exactly? Pack up the dragons and Unsullied and sail the fuck away. Maybe burn the place to the ground first. I'm really not caring about her story line this season AT ALL. Then again, I didn't like it in the books either. I can't decide what I liked better, Sam's slam on Slynt or Kevan's dignified dressing down of Cercei. 5 Link to comment
Mr. Simpatico April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 They've deviated so much from the books at this point I'm not sure what I'm watching anymore. Brienne has come across both Arya and Sansa and been rejected by both (and its not entirely clear - just as its not in the book - what she ever intended to do once she found them especially once Lysa was dead). Sad that this is the first ever (and maybe only ever) name drop of any of the Mormont women of Bear Island. And no Ellaria cannot just take the place of Arianne if that is what is going on. It's not only because Book!Ellaria wished for peace (against the Sand Snakes) but Arianne's motives went beyond mere revenge which is what we are seeing here. I still feel sure Kevan will have a role to play at court (or they wouldn't have brought the actor back) but was he so belligerent with Cersei in the books? Yes he kept her on the leash and starting running things well (which was his downfall) but he seemed to have a good relationship with her. Dany screwed herself. She could have easily saved faced by showing mercy at the last minute, thus winning the hearts and minds of the ones she needs to stay in power (barring her showing her dragons which she apparently cannot/will not do) - the ex-slaves. But no....that scene had a sorta King's Landing feel to it with the people turning on her. Actually liked the twist of Jaquen H'dar (or the actor who plays him at least since "there is no Jaquen H'dar) being the one who greets Arya in Bravvos. I actually like the actor's chemistry with MW and might make that storyline of what Arya goes through interesting if we know the person putting her through it. 7 Link to comment
Latverian Diplomat April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 When Kevan said that he was going back to Casterly Rock I half expected Cersei to tell him that it was hers now and that she'd have his head if she found out that he was putting his feet up there without her consent. Given how succession seems to work outside of Dorne, I don't think Cersei has any claim on the Rock. Tommen might, but he's King. Jaime's Kingsguard, and Tyrion's an outlaw. So, I think it does legitimately go to Kevan. 2 Link to comment
Boundary April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 They've changed the books so much but I'm not gonna disparage everything because of that. I really liked that tweak with Drogon at the end. She's trying her best, gave the Harpy member the benefit of a trial but one of her advisors publicly ignores her commands. That hissing was way more effective on screen than anything that could be written on a page. So when she's feeling extremely vulnerable, and every unsullied soldier pledges to stand on guard, Drogon shows up to say to her: "I'm here as well." It really was a nice touch. 6 Link to comment
SeanC April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Given how succession seems to work outside of Dorne, I don't think Cersei has any claim on the Rock. Tommen might, but he's King. Jaime's Kingsguard, and Tyrion's an outlaw. So, I think it does legitimately go to Kevan. No, Cersei is Lady of the Rock in the books. Women can inherit if they don't have brothers. They haven't established that Cersei is the owner of the Rock in the show, though. Edited April 20, 2015 by SeanC 2 Link to comment
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