Season 1 Discussion: The Devil Of Hell's Kitchen

[FurryFury]

Black costume was great. I loved its simplicity, and it was also useful, considering he mostly fought at night. I'm biased, though - I tend to dislike all superhero costumes because they are silly (and so are the superhero nicknames).

[prospazzinator]

Liked the series up until Claire randomly disappeared for a few episodes. I really liked the character and her interactions with Matt so that was disappointing. I'm also not a huge fan of Foggy or Karen and found myself being mostly bored during their bits. Will say that Karen's showdown with Wesley was fantastic. I really didn't expect him to go out like that, but it was a pleasant surprise. Despite being less than thrilled with the latter half of this season, I'll definitely tune in for the second season.

[Eegah]

I imagine that Rosario Dawson's hefty paycheck played a role in how little Claire appeared, especially her showing up and leaving between episodes 9 and 10. Plus, since she's affiliated with Luke Cage in the comics rather than Daredevil, I'm reasonably sure that this was more of an extended early cameo for her.

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, I think you're right. It just sucks, as someone who was not in the know about that (and I still don't think there's been any public clarification about this), to get invested in a character who I believed was a series regular (she IS, according to the official web site, and everywhere else), only to find out that she's really not. Feels like a bait-and-switch, and it left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

[The Crazed Spruce]

I imagine that Rosario Dawson's hefty paycheck played a role in how little Claire appeared, especially her showing up and leaving between episodes 9 and 10. Plus, since she's affiliated with Luke Cage in the comics rather than Daredevil, I'm reasonably sure that this was more of an extended early cameo for her.

Personally, I'm hoping she'll be the connecting tissue between the Netflix shows. (Their Phil Coulson, basically.)

[starri]

Personally, I'm hoping she'll be the connecting tissue between the Netflix shows. (Their Phil Coulson, basically.)

I'm pretty sure that's exactly the role she's going to fill.

 

I don't know how they're going to get her into Jessica Jones' story, but I can see her taking Carol Danvers' place in Jessica's life.  Maybe.

[FurryFury]

I think there's some speculation that Patsy whatshername is going to be Jessica's female friend over on AKA Jessica Jones forum.

[starri]

Hellcat?  Oh, that's even better.

[phoenics]

I have to declare I am not a comic books fan, I knew almost nothing about Daredevil before I watched the show, so I got introduced to its universe for the first time. 

I am   watching (also without the knowledge of the comic book stories) Arrow, Flash and watched Agent Carter (my favorite).

I thought of sharing with you the opinion of one  comic-books-ignorant average viewer :)

 

Daredevil.. in a nutshell: not sure I will watch season 2. 

There were  two big problems for me:

 

1. The main character/actor.

I really can't stand of him.

It is the first time I didn't care about a comic hero, his motivations, his actions, actually I fast forwarded some of his scenes.

I've seen all this already in Arrow, even if in less cinematic/artsy/dark mood. 

which brings us to..

2. Vigilantes/"Heroes who want to save their city" fatigue.

How many of this kind of series (or even movies) can you watch in a  single season or in such a short time? especially if you are not a comic books fan.

It is the same theme/formula: we have corruption, various super bad guys, the problem of hiding your hero identity from your friends, etc etc etc.

Sure, Daredevil  had a very interesting art direction, an intriguing (and entertaining in some cases) group of villains and a very good cast. 

But it was the same old story without something new/exciting.

I guess this is what  made Agent Carter my favorite, the slightly different formula (and the era).

I read about all these upcoming series and movies based on comics. Do you think this is too much? Can the comic book fans support all the feature releases and make them successful?

I understand the vigilante fatigue, but I cannot blame Daredevil or Batman for that - because Green Arrow was NEVER a dark knight kind of character. The CW kinda hijacked Batman's story and gave it to this character, which I still despise.

Daredevil and Batman are closest in terms of their whole dark knight stuff and those really are their comic origin stories. Daredevil is much better at it than Arrow (sorry, not sorry).

Everytime I think of how Arrow hijacked the batman themes I get mad.

[FurryFury]

Arrow is basically The Dark Knight Trilogy: TV show. I mean, it's not just Oliver, they've literally copied almost everything about it - made Dinah Lance into a shoddily characterized lawyer, made Ra's al Ghul want Oliver for the League of Assassins, etc. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I understand the vigilante fatigue, but I cannot blame Daredevil or Batman for that - because Green Arrow was NEVER a dark knight kind of character. The CW kinda hijacked Batman's story and gave it to this character, which I still despise.

Kinda? They TOTALLY hijacked/stole my Bats's story--to the point that half of the Rogue Gallery that is supposed to be Batman's, has been usurped by that show.

 

I don't despise what they did, I bloody well hate them for it.

 

And yeah, if you want to compare the two universes, Matt/Daredevil and Bruce/Batman are the most similar, what with not having any "super" powers;  I love 'em both. Well, one more than the other, but I can love BOTH.

[phoenics]

Arrow is basically The Dark Knight Trilogy: TV show. I mean, it's not just Oliver, they've literally copied almost everything about it - made Dinah Lance into a shoddily characterized lawyer, made Ra's al Ghul want Oliver for the League of Assassins, etc.

Yeah - I hate it, lol.

It's partly why I LOVVVED Daredevil so much. I mean - aside from the fact that the characters were all so amazing and engaging (still kinda sad Wesley's gone - he was really a compelling villain), the plots were tight and fast paced... I loved the 13 episode format. I literally binge watched all of them in a day and a half...

I really enjoyed the women characters - Claire was a favorite because she was just so real and her chemistry with Matt was out of this world... I do wonder how he'll do with Karen after that (I'm sure it will be great, I hope).

Fisk was a revelation. I almost rooted for him... He was such a formidable opponent that the fight between him and DD at the end of the season felt like a world heavyweight match up that has been hyped for months. Just awesome.

The realism of the fights was really great too - the bad guys kept getting up! LOL. Loved it.

Just so much to unpack from the series - this part of the MCU I am less familiar with so I need to go do some more research!

[solea]

I came to this series knowing nothing, and not being a particular fan of superhero stories.  I was pleasantly surprised to find it so compelling and watchable.  I hope they keep balance of the story weighted on the character side.  I get easily bored with too much action for the sake of action.  That said, every fight scene was fascinating and fun to watch.

 

I love our main trio. I think all three actors are terrific and have great chemistry. I hope they will have more interaction as a trio. In this first season they spent so much time apart in different pairings.

 

Another thing that they do that I really dig is the music over the ending credits is different in every episode. Amazing!

[loki567]

Yeah, I think you're right. It just sucks, as someone who was not in the know about that (and I still don't think there's been any public clarification about this), to get invested in a character who I believed was a series regular (she IS, according to the official web site, and everywhere else), only to find out that she's really not. Feels like a bait-and-switch, and it left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

 

That's a good point and maybe a reason I felt like the first half of the season was better than the second half. Claire was pretty front-and-center those early episodes. She was an interesting character and had good chemistry with Matt. I don't know if I necessarily think it was a bait-and-switch, but they probably should have spaced her appearances more throughout the season. 

[FurryFury]

maybe a reason I felt like the first half of the season was better than the second half.

 

The first half generally had a very different feel than the second. I liked them both, but the change felt quite jarring. The first half is more criminal drama, the second - comic book.

[Danny Franks]

I came to this series knowing nothing, and not being a particular fan of superhero stories.  I was pleasantly surprised to find it so compelling and watchable. 

 

I'm glad that the show is reaching an audience that aren't just superhero fans. I think there is still a stigma about what to expect: over the top action, silly costumes, larger-than-life characters. This version of Daredevil eschewed most of that, in my view. Matt is quiet and contemplative, and even when he's in costume, he's still fairly quiet and menacing, rather than quippy or shouty. The costume was very practical and understated (which is going to change, but hopefully not too much).

 

The show does feel like it's a very grown up take on comic book heroes. Not in the overly dour, humourless way that Nolan's Batman movies were, because there is still a level of wit and levity, both in the secondary characters and in Matt himself. I like a show that can be deadly serious and still make you smile in genuine amusement.

 

What Daredevil certainly has done is make me more interested in other Marvel Netflix shows, which I had only a passing interest in (I never cared about Jessica Jones or Luke Cage) before this. If they can hit a similar level, then Marvel's franchise as a whole will be stronger than ever, even with the misfire that was Agents of SHIELD.

 

Anyway, about the first season, I thought it told a really cool story of the search for purpose and identity for Matt as a hero, and of the rise to power of a villain worthy of him. The parallels between Fisk and Matt were interesting, as I've said in one of the episode threads. They appear to share the same goal of making the city better, but when it comes down to it, they couldn't be more different.

 

Fisk believes that the way to save the city is to gentrify it. To change the people themselves, to remove the undesirables and replace them with better people, in shiny new luxury apartments. Matt wants to save the people who are already there, who live in the city and struggle with the privations and poverty. I think that's a really interesting juxtaposition of ideas, and one that ensures they can never, ever see eye to eye. And the really cool thing is, they're both right (if you take away the bit about Fisk being a lying, megalomaniacal murderer, of course). Both of those methods could save the city, and make it better for the people. Both have been tried by urban planners before, as ways of improving the lives of residents.

 

I think the thirteen episode format allowed the writers to really nail down their focus, and tell a tight story that involved all the characters. I didn't feel anyone was wasted, character-wise. Rosario Dawson should have been in it more, but Claire herself never felt like she was shortchanged. Each of them had their role and the writers were clearly given time to get the whole story sorted beforehand.

 

I also appreciate the show's occasionally blasé view of action scenes. They bore me as well, unless they're incredibly well done, so the fact that the writers seem to be happy to go with, 'Daredevil beats up some guys offscreen. We hear the action, but don't see it' as a screen direction, makes me very happy.

[Ottis]

Fisk believes that the way to save the city is to gentrify it. To change the people themselves, to remove the undesirables and replace them with better people, in shiny new luxury apartments. Matt wants to save the people who are already there, who live in the city and struggle with the privations and poverty. I think that's a really interesting juxtaposition of ideas, and one that ensures they can never, ever see eye to eye. And the really cool thing is, they're both right (if you take away the bit about Fisk being a lying, megalomaniacal murderer, of course).

 

 

This is exactly where I am, and it is why I kind of root for both DD and Fisk, or at least diduntil Fisk got so obvously stabby during the last few episodes. I liked Ben, but Ben (and people who believe as he does) will never "get" Fisk's view. If you refuse to consider removing undesirables, if you see good in everyone and feel those who seem bad are that way for reasons that are not their fault, then you can't accept that some people are beyond saving. And if you are Fisk, you don't know why people who believe as Ben and Matt do waste their time and keep the city from becoming greater. Both are right, there is a lot of gray to wade through there. In a way, it sums up the current political landscape in the US, with DD being liberal and Fisk being conservative.  

 

Unfortunately, in those last few eps the show pushed Fisk toward the "clearly evil" side, which was disappointing. He was far more interesting as a person with a different worldview who also dabbled in illegal activity. I hope they bring him back toward the gray but won't hold my breath.

[Dandesun]

I don't think Fisk dabbled in illegal activity. He was in it up to the tip of his bald head. From start to finish he was in it all the way.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't think Fisk dabbled in illegal activity. He was in it up to the tip of his bald head. From start to finish he was in it all the way.

 

Yup. Wesley was his mouth piece and we know he (Fisk) was behind setting Karen up for murder; and the attempts on her life; not once, but twice. Then after decapitating Anatoly, and meeting Vanessa, framing Matt, he comes out to the public, talking about how he wants to clean up the city.

 

That's not dabbling.

[Danny Franks]

Fisk was able to justify his criminal activities through believing it was all for the greater good. And he truly did seem to believe that, up until the end, when he had the revelation that he is the "evil intent" accosting the city. Until then, he was denying that his actions were actually causing more trouble and hurting more people than his eventual goals might help.

 

The best bad guys are the ones who think they're righteous, and Fisk was that, for most of this season. He really did see Matt as a terrorist, trying to derail the progress that Fisk was trying to achieve. Sure, some people got hurt or killed, and many lost their homes, but it's all going to make the city better, eventually. That's Fisk's viewpoint, and it is understandable, in a way.

 

Trouble is, he's a violent man who cannot control his temper, and who employs violent men who will unquestioningly do his bidding.

[Bec]

If you refuse to consider removing undesirables, if you see good in everyone and feel those who seem bad are that way for reasons that are not their fault, then you can't accept that some people are beyond saving

Weren't the "undesirables" the drug-dealers, human traffickers and killers? And wasn't Fisk the one in bed with them? The only reason Matt saved that human trafficker that one time was because he wanted to use that guy to catch the bigger fish (Fisk). I wouldn't quite categorize Matt as some bleeding heart who wants to see the good in everyone since he has no problem beating the crap out of some people. Hey, that's a major thing Fisk and Matt have in common - using violence to solve problems.

 

Some people have pointed out that Matt could have used his super-hearing instead of his fists to get information sometimes. The priest raised this question: does he hate using violence but have to, or is he giving himself an excuse? I think Matt has some anger issues, but he's more restrained than Fisk when it comes to who he hurts and how much he hurts them. On the other hand, Fisk has more restaint in how much danger he exposes himself to: he mostly only physically confront people he knows he can overpower and/or when he has armed henchmen backing him up.

 

Fisk doesn't ever really hold back and wonder if his violence is justifiable. He's pretty much totally certain it is. You'd never see him asking for penance or asking someone whether he's doing the right thing. That's another difference between him and Matt.

 

Rosario Dawson should have been in it more, but Claire herself never felt like she was shortchanged

I did have a reaction like "why did we not get to see this?" when Foggy mentioned Matt got him to call Claire and she came over to stitch him up. It was better for the flow of the story to skip over it, I guess, but I really wanted to know how Claire and Foggy would interact in that situation. It must have been incredibly awkward for the both of them. Did they make small talk? Did Foggy try to ask her what she knew and she cleverly deflected his questions? Or was it just awkward silence (seems unlikely for these two, but it's an extreme situation)? I wanna know!

[starri]

 

I wouldn't quite categorize Matt as some bleeding heart who wants to see the good in everyone since he has no problem beating the crap out of some people. Hey, that's a major thing Fisk and Matt have in common - using violence to solve problems.

Which goes to my point that Matt may be the guy who punches people, but Karen and/or Foggy is the real hero.

[Eneya]

Honestly... there are days in which I struggle to remember why hitting things would not solve problems... because those who hit and are the bad guys... they don't give a toss about those who hit... however, those who care, don't hit back, the hitting get bolder and stronger... and ad naseum...

Blargh.

Sorry guys... shitty week in my country.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Which goes to my point that Matt may be the guy who punches people, but Karen and/or Foggy is the real hero.

 

Hmmm, let's see...Matt is the one who hits/accidentally killed one bad guy unknowingly....Karen emptied a gun on the main villain's henchman, and Foggy...well, he hasn't been tested yet, so who knows what he'll do? So far, Foggy is still the most idealistic, Even if Karen hadn't killed Wesley, I still consider Matt a hero.

 

But that's just me.

[writersblock51]

I've rewatched most of the season. A few more "Upon Rewatch" thoughts:

 

- I actually prefer the simplicity of the black costume BUT love the protection the new one affords. Ionic look aside, I sort of wish the new & improved costume was the all black but with the special, protective fabric. If nothing else, the new head gear seems to impede his hearing... or it doesn't, it's a comic book superhero show after all

 

- I was taken with how Charlie Cox changed his voice slightly in terms of tone & motive when Matt was wearing his glasses as opposed to when he wasn't. The change wasn't happening 100% of the time he wore glasses, but when Matt would put on his glasses in a scene, he seemed to slip into a slightly different personality - one  that's closer to Daredevil than regular Matt

 

- The final scene with Matt and Karen was blocked to impart a meaning - I will go along with the commentary but it seems to be me, still, that there was something else, however small, there, too. Hopefully Karen tells Matt & Foggy about Wesley and they/Just Matt tell her about Daredevil in season 4. I dislike when team mates are in the dark

 

- I'm more impressed than the first viewing about how much we learned about Fisk. I was rooting for Matt but wow, what a great job of giving the audience tons of grey area to mull over when coming into the final 3 episodes

 

- The Good Samaritan Speech still gave me chills even when I knew what was going to happen in the moments that followed.  I can't imagine any other actor in the role now

[that one guy]

Is it just me who thinks she already WAS a heroin addict porn star and she moved on?

 

This was kinda-sorta-partially-maybe confirmed by Deborah Ann Woll in interviews, where she said they were doing the beginning and end of her arc at the same time. After watching the last few episodes, it was clear she used to be a heroin addict (she said she craved the hard stuff and didn't consider Mary Jane hard) and had shot someone before. So I would not at all be shocked if in Season 2 it was revealed that she'd been a heroin addict porn star before shooting someone and moving to New York. Whatever her history is, I like the edginess of the character. I especially like that she's a FRIENDLY obsessive troubled person, which you don't see so much on TV but all the time in real life.

 

I also liked the black costume better, although I like the in-show reason for getting a superhero suit. (It's Kevlar, and he's sick of being stabbed all the time).

[Danny Franks]

This was kinda-sorta-partially-maybe confirmed by Deborah Ann Woll in interviews, where she said they were doing the beginning and end of her arc at the same time. After watching the last few episodes, it was clear she used to be a heroin addict (she said she craved the hard stuff and didn't consider Mary Jane hard) and had shot someone before. So I would not at all be shocked if in Season 2 it was revealed that she'd been a heroin addict porn star before shooting someone and moving to New York. Whatever her history is, I like the edginess of the character. I especially like that she's a FRIENDLY obsessive troubled person, which you don't see so much on TV but all the time in real life.

 

 

This is where the show would have a logic failure, for me. If that stuff was in her past (as I'm sure some of it will prove to be), then Wesley would have known about it. We saw how he operated, we know how diligent he was in protecting Fisk. As soon as Karen started asking questions about those pension funds, her whole life would have been turned over, looking for dirt.

 

If she was an ex heroin addict/pornstar/murderer, they'd have absolutely eviscerated her without ever needing to frame her for murder. They'd have revealed it to her boss, cost her her job, humiliated her in public. And then they'd probably just have had her 'tragically overdose' on a relapse binge. Job done, without any of the risks that framing her for murder exposed them to. Trying to reveal it later on, even if it was planned all along, would just make Wesley and Fisk look less competent and dangerous than they were.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Danny Franks

[MisterGlass]

I've watched the show in stages, and finished yesterday.  It was exceptional television, let alone comic television.  I love the gritty, sparse realism of the scenes and sets.  No gloss, no overt CGI.  This series more than any other Marvel effort to date felt grounded and deep.  I've never read Daredevil comics, but now I'm tempted.

 

The time and energy spent allowing the characters to demonstrate who they are was brilliant.  I agree that there are several who could use more backstory, but really the only characters with much history now are Matt and Fisk, which makes sense.  Even without backstory, I feel like I know the kind of people that Foggy, Karen, and Claire are.  Vanessa is still something of a cipher, but I expect her to branch out with Fisk in prison.  The camraderie between Charlie Cox and Elden Henson played well, and so did the tearful confrontation between the two of them in Nelson v. Murdoch.

 

The villains were a wonderfully varied assortment with distinct motivations.  D'Onofrio was a brilliant Fisk, and Toby Leonard Moore was fascinating as Wesley.  Their relationship felt very real, especially the moment at the hospital when Fisk thanked Wesley for everything.  Without Wesley, I don't think Fisk would have connected as well as he did.  Madame Gao was a good mix of propriety and ruthlessness.  I never trusted Leland but he was a good whiny louse.  Even the Russian brothers had affection for each other.

 

I could quibble about a few things, but really this is the best put together effort I've seen since I started watching Hannibal (and I agree on the opening credit similarity).  All of the supporting characters were good, and I enjoyed Matt's talks with Father Lanton, and the priest's recognition of Matt's alter ego.  Ben was a great world-weary but steady, dedicated figure.  I was surprised he was killed, but I think Fisk showing up personally to do him in is almost a mark of respect.

 

I count three major characters and four recurring killed in one season.  That's bold.  I was shocked by Wesley's death too.  I really liked to hate the character and I thought he held together so much.  I couldn't believe Karen shot him the first time, let alone paused and then continued well past the point of self defense.  I hope the actor shows up soon in other roles.  Looking him up on IMDB I see he's Australian, which surprises me because I didn't hear any tells in his accent.  I could hear a little in Charlie Cox's, but thought he did well and was not distracted by it.

 

This has me excited about what else Marvel has planned with Netflix.

[TwistedandBored]

I really enjoyed watching this show until the last 2 episodes which I thought was rushed. I am still bitter about Ben dying. I some how blamed Karen for it for a while after I watched his death scene in disbelieve. I just wished Ben did something. Wrote his story before he died. Anyways, I am sure I would stop blaming Karen for it someday thought. 

 

I really didn't know Karen was romantically involved with Matt in the comics. I always thought he and Elektra were the ultimate couple. Must have been mistaken. 

 

 

 

Personally, I'm hoping she'll be the connecting tissue between the Netflix shows. (Their Phil Coulson, basically.)

I hope so too. I really liked her character. She made an impression on me. 

[ribboninthesky1]

Liked the series up until Claire randomly disappeared for a few episodes. I really liked the character and her interactions with Matt so that was disappointing. I'm also not a huge fan of Foggy or Karen and found myself being mostly bored during their bits. 

 

Agreed. I thought the Matt/Claire (and the Matt/priest) dynamic brought something different to the show.  I've read here that Rosario Dawson was probably too expensive to keep on the main cast, and that may be true.  Unfortunately, Claire was one of the three characters who interested me the most (the others being Matt and Ben Urich), and since two of the three are gone, I'm not invested in future seasons. Maybe I'll change my mind by this time next year. 

 

I'm not concerned about the Marvel Universe, and whether she pops up elsewhere. She was great and practical within the context of THIS show, and I'll miss the character. 

 

And I'll just go on record: Foggy annoyed me greatly, even more than Karen. I was hoping he actually would leave after episode 10, especially if it meant Claire and Ben could have stayed.  I assume the Matt/Foggy friendship is comic canon, though, and such is life.

 

I thought Ayelet Zurer as Vanessa was more interesting than D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk, and found myself wishing she was the Kingpin.  She and Madame Gao could have been formidable allies or frenemies! Ah well. 

 

I enjoyed the season for what it was, but had this been a cable show, with the traditional weekly viewing, I probably would have bailed around episode 7 or 8.  Overall, the cast was a mixed bag for me, with the most intriguing characters outside of Matt being the least featured. 

[Bec]

I'm with you on liking Ayelet Zurer as Vanessa more than D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk.

 

I ended up appreciating pretty much all the characters, but we could have used less Wilson Fisk and more Vanessa. We can stand to learn more about her and why she would go for Fisk, whereas Fisk was getting pretty repetitive and tiresome towards the end.

 

I don't think the show is done with Claire. The door is definitely left open for her to come back. I actually like that they got the romance with Matt stuff out of the way so quickly. They have great chemistry, but now we don't have to wonder will they or won't they. They already went there for about 5 minutes. The banter between them is fantastic whether they're together or not, so it doesn't even matter that much.

 

I was taken with how Charlie Cox changed his voice slightly in terms of tone & motive when Matt was wearing his glasses as opposed to when he wasn't. The change wasn't happening 100% of the time he wore glasses, but when Matt would put on his glasses in a scene, he seemed to slip into a slightly different personality - one  that's closer to Daredevil than regular Matt

I don't know if I'd say it's the glasses that brings that on, but yes! He can go from cute and affable to cold and hard in 0.6 seconds. It's unsettling. In a good way. And sometimes the Daredevil part of him comes through in his regular life.

 

I loved that part where Matt in lawyer-mode was all "get my client released, don't make me ask again" with Blake the asshole detective, and Blake threatened to kick the shit out of Matt. Matt had a little smile as if he's thinking "I'd like to see you try". Then of course, Matt got to kick the shit out of Blake a few episodes later, after Blake shot a guy for mentioning Fisk's name and made it clear he's working for Fisk so it's okay to kick his ass.

 

Another sort of parallel/contrast that strikes me is that Fisk keeps saying he takes no pleasure in the suffering and death that come from his orders. But he's also not sorry, he's just indifferent to other people's suffering. And Matt claims he enjoys what he does, but the guilt is eating him alive. Even when he was telling Claire he can live with putting that Russian guy he shoved off the roof into a coma, the descriptive audio said he twitched, which I didn't really notice without it being pointed out to me, but yep, it was definitely there. He's unable to feel indifferent. But it is possible he both likes beating up bad guys and also feels guilty (that last part's the Catholicism - hee). He really is a contrary guy.

 

I wonder if the part in the beginning where Matt's doing confession is supposed to be from before he went and did his first vigilante act (beating up that guy who was hurting his daughter). If he's been doing it for a while, he wouldn't be seeking penance for what he was "about to do", right? The timeline jumps around a little bit.

[Kel Varnsen]

Agreed. I thought the Matt/Claire (and the Matt/priest) dynamic brought something different to the show.  I've read here that Rosario Dawson was probably too expensive to keep on the main cast, and that may be true.  

I would be curious if that really is the reason. I mean most people probably think of Rosario Dawson as a movie actress. But is she really that big where they can't afford to cast her  in something like this. I mean this isn't Angelina Jolie or Cameron Diaz or even Amy Adams. When I think of Rosario Dawson the movies that come to mind are Men in Black 2, Clerks 2 and Josie and the Pussycats.

[ribboninthesky1]

All good points.  I've known of Rosario Dawson for years, but I don't know how much money she commands with her films.  Then again, I don't know the show's budget, either.  Without knowing anything about writing decisions, I perceived that her character was likely never intended to be part of the main cast, especially if Karen is meant to be romantically partnered with Matt.  But TPTB didn't anticipate the Charlie/Rosario chemistry, or the possible fan reaction to Claire.  

 

I don't need to see Claire and Matt in a romance, but I think the nature of how they met and the transparency in their interactions was something the show really needed.  I, for one, am not interested in watching the conflict with Foggy knowing, tossing out passive-aggressive, borderline self-loathing commentary meant to pass for "humor," and complaining about Karen not knowing and blahblah angstycakes.

 

It's also why I liked Ben - he probably wouldn't have cared who Daredevil was, and even if Matt revealed himself, there wouldn't have been drama around it.  Ben wasn't some naive person who saw justice as black and white, knew the streets, yet managed to retain his humanity despite all he saw and experienced.  That was interesting to watch.       

Edited May 11, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[Danny Franks]

I would be curious if that really is the reason. I mean most people probably think of Rosario Dawson as a movie actress. But is she really that big where they can't afford to cast her  in something like this. I mean this isn't Angelina Jolie or Cameron Diaz or even Amy Adams. When I think of Rosario Dawson the movies that come to mind are Men in Black 2, Clerks 2 and Josie and the Pussycats.

 

The Sin City movies, Unstoppable, Seven Pounds, Trance and 25th Hour as well. She's a more established actor than anyone else Marvel has brought to the small screen, I think, if not on the highest level in Hollywood. When you consider Marvel has been notoriously stingy, even with their movie mainstay actors, then the amount they're willing to shell out for a secondary role on a Netflix exclusive show (their first attempt at the format), was probably not very high.

 

The success of the first season has probably given them more scope to throw money around, and I'm glad that their first apparent move was to get Rosario back for the second season.

 

Sidenote: That scene of her dancing on the roof in Clerks II is one of my favourites, I have to say. She's so much fun in that movie (and game for anything. How many actresses would willingly say "sometimes it's okay to go ass to mouth"?).

[GHScorpiosRule]

It's also why I liked Ben - he probably wouldn't have cared who Daredevil was, and even if Matt revealed himself, there wouldn't have been drama around it.  Ben wasn't some naive person who saw justice as black and white, knew the streets, yet managed to retain his humanity despite all he saw and experienced.  That's was interesting to watch.       

 

Agree. I try not to compare this show/characters with others, but in this case, it's a good one.  Ben's very short relationship with Matt reminded me of Commissioner Gordon and Batman. No drama, but respect between the two*

 

Batman: The Animated Series. Don't Judge! It was a fantastic series!

Edited May 11, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[MisterGlass]

It was a fantastic series, and worth mentioning in comparison to this show.

[jeansheridan]

I am fond of Charlie Cox and I found him mostly credible. I only felt his anger with Scott Glen. I know the Ben Affleck version is crap but Ben does poor guy with chip on shoulder very credibly. Cox not so much. He always feels posh to me.

I think it was interesting the the actor who played Wesley looked a lot like lawyer Matt. More polished, nicer clothes, but the dark hair and glasses. They are a similar type. Doubt it was intentional. I kept thinking the actors could have swapped roles.

[TrininisaScorp]

I watched the first 3 episodes a month or 2 ago and loved them, but life/work/stuff got in the way.  Over the long weekend, I decided to jump back in and am now done.  Man...Marvel has been kicking ass in tv series that weren't to be their overhyped flagship (sorry, Agents of SHIELD...still watch you and love you, but you don't touch these guys).  This show and Agent Carter are my most favorite things from Marvel!  

 

I like Charlie as Daredevil; he grew on me over the course of the series.  I think Affleck's Murdock was better with the "chip on his shoulder", but I like the added roundness of character that Charlie brings.  Matt is always tinged with melancholy, but at least he's able to have moments of happiness and humor to mix with his anger.

 

The supporting cast is pretty amazing here.  From the magnetic, multi-layered, crazy pants Fisk to grounded Foggy, pained Karen to Gao and Leland, all were compelling and I wanted to see more.  Not a weak link among them for me.

 

I loved the use of flashback in this series.  It was nicely used to paint a picture of our characters and the important tentpole moments of their lives.

 

There were some comments above re: what is essentially the woobie-fying of Loki and how those folks would color Fisk.  I'm a Loki fan (mostly, b/c I appreciated Hiddleston's take on the character and adding layers to his crazy pants too) and I found Fisk very interesting.  I felt bad that little boy walked the journey he did to become this man; I found my moments of sympathy for him completed overshadowed by his gross sense of entitlement and evil, but not forgotten.  I loved the Good Samaritan scene b/c I was wondering if he truly believed the bullshit he spewed the entire series about doing all these things for the good of it and the payoff of "entity of evil" was great.  He's a good villain for this noir-styled series.

 

Can't wait for season 2 and like many of you, I can't wait for the upcoming shows.

[Bec]

Matt is always tinged with melancholy, but at least he's able to have moments of happiness and humor to mix with his anger.

That's why I like him so much. There's a lot of dark stuff going on, but he's not all brooding all the time. Even when he's down, he's not down for long. Kind of the character in a nutshell - he gets back up no matter what.

[zxy556575]

I came to this series knowing nothing, and not being a particular fan of superhero stories. I was pleasantly surprised to find it so compelling and watchable.  I hope they keep balance of the story weighted on the character side.  I get easily bored with too much action for the sake of action. That said, every fight scene was fascinating and fun to watch.

 

I don't generally watch superhero or action shows and FF'd through any fight scenes -- they just don't advance the story for me and I don't find them compelling in any way, plus the sound effects make me cringe. It's nice to hear that so many other appreciate them because I'm sure they take a ton of work and time to put together.

 

I loved the show overall for its cast, cinematic artwork, and storytelling but as a small quibble, I would have liked to see more of Nelson and Murdoch interacting, doing their day jobs and handling cases. The episodes were pretty jam-packed already, but maybe filming 15 instead of 13 would have allowed us to see the guys being do-gooder attorneys. And also given me a reprieve from watching Matt get bashed up over and over.

Edited October 25, 2015 by lordonia

[WatchrTina]

I am VERY late to this party but I just watched the first two episodes of Season 1 and damn, that was good.  The hallway fight at the end of the second episode was a classic.

And, having already seen Jessica Jones and Luke Cage can I just say -- yay Claire!

Edited October 16, 2016 by WatchrTina

[Captanne]

This is great. Been mainlining and up to episode 12. The two lead male actors have more chemistry than they know what to do with. It's fantastic. 

[Captanne]

This show is much better than it has any right to be.  My goodness the final episode was super.  The costume is hokey but he wears it well.  

I think, now that I started series 2, my issue with Daredevil is a fundamental one, not tied to this or any series or film -- I just love the idea of a vigilante in Hell's Kitchen and the whole "devil" motif (even though it's obvious).  Plus, one thing Marvel has always done well is its homework -- I'm getting my PhD in Humanities (Western theology) at Georgetown University and that priest's observations on the Devil through history was fascinating and everything I've been taught.  (I'm not Catholic -- I'm a practicing Episcopalian -- but have a Catholic law degree and now am being taught theology by Jesuits.)  

However, I just can't buy into the "superhero" who is blind and has a really good workout routine being able to beat the superhuman villain.  His situation just doesn't have any balance for me.  That may be why, although I was totally into Marvel comics when I was young, I never bought into Daredevil.

 

ETA:  This does not mean I'll stop watching the series.  Right now Matt is chained to a roof.  I have to see how that plays out!

Edited September 5, 2017 by Captanne

[Akenta]

On 9/5/2017 at 9:28 AM, Captanne said:

However, I just can't buy into the "superhero" who is blind and has a really good workout routine being able to beat the superhuman villain.  His situation just doesn't have any balance for me.

I didn't have a problem with this.  Reminds me of the movie Bloodsport where he is trained to be able to fight blindfolded.

[Captanne]

I never saw Bloodsport but it would probably pose the same problem for me.