JessePinkman June 13, 2018 Share June 13, 2018 34 minutes ago, MarkHB said: The Joachin Phoenix Joker movie, which is distinct from the DCEU, is still on with possible filming this fall, and they might start a new label like "DC Dark" for the out-of-continuity films. That's so stupid. Why don't they try having more than one successful film first? 14 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4411926
Joe June 13, 2018 Share June 13, 2018 1 hour ago, JessePinkman said: That's so stupid. Why don't they try having more than one successful film first? I hear you. While the MCU has done a zillion dollars, they put in the work of making good movies first. All the others just seem to want to skip that step. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4412206
stealinghome June 14, 2018 Share June 14, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, JessePinkman said: That's so stupid. Why don't they try having more than one successful film first? Also, have they not gotten the memo that gritty gritty grimdark...hasn't exactly been widely embraced by the viewing audience? Also, having two Jokers played by two different actors is just asking the viewing public to roll their eyes. it's like every time TPTB come to a crossroads where one way is clearly a Good Decision and the other is a Bad Decision, they go for Bad Decision every.single.time. Edited June 14, 2018 by stealinghome 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4413609
Fukui San June 14, 2018 Share June 14, 2018 I’d rather they start a DCFun offshoot. 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4414124
Bruinsfan June 14, 2018 Share June 14, 2018 20 hours ago, MarkHB said: Matt Reeves's script for The Batman will focus on a younger version of the character and they think it's unlikely it'll be Ben Affleck. No, really? You mean Affleck's dead-eyed stare and phoned-in delivery in his last DCEU movie didn't captivate TPTB and make them want to do another dozen films with him? 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4414805
JessePinkman June 14, 2018 Share June 14, 2018 Aquaman first look I don't know what to say. I hope it's good. Momoa looks great in the first cover. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4415008
Ms.Moon June 14, 2018 Share June 14, 2018 The blonde woman is Nicole Kidman right the cgi has rendered her face so smooth or photoshopped it looks like animation. I might give Aquaman a try if the reviews are good. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4415179
MarkHB June 14, 2018 Author Share June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Ms.Moon said: The blonde woman is Nicole Kidman right the cgi has rendered her face so smooth or photoshopped it looks like animation. I might give Aquaman a try if the reviews are good. Isn't that more of a practical effect, achieved with scalpels? I'm really looking forward to this movie, but I am concerned that Amber Heard doesn't appear to have a good version of "fierce" in her toolkit. Also, we do have an Aquaman thread already opened for further discussion. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4415444
VCRTracking June 14, 2018 Share June 14, 2018 58 minutes ago, MarkHB said: I'm really looking forward to this movie, but I am concerned that Amber Heard doesn't appear to have a good version of "fierce" in her toolkit. She was fierce in "Zombieland" but she was made up to look like a zombie. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4415605
GHScorpiosRule June 15, 2018 Share June 15, 2018 On 6/13/2018 at 4:46 PM, MarkHB said: Why does it seem like a lot of info is coming out just after the judge ruled in the AT&T case? Big article from THR. Highlights: The Joachin Phoenix Joker movie, which is distinct from the DCEU, is still on with possible filming this fall, and they might start a new label like "DC Dark" for the out-of-continuity films. The Flash will start production in early 2019 and they're looking for a "Back to the Future" vibe Matt Reeves's script for The Batman will focus on a younger version of the character and hey think it's unlikely it'll be Ben Affleck. they think it's unlikely it'll be Ben Affleck. Bullet One: WHY?????? Bullet Two: Don't give a fuck. Bullet Three: If this be true, this bit of news pleases me to NO END. 23 hours ago, Bruinsfan said: No, really? You mean Affleck's dead-eyed stare and phoned-in delivery in his last DCEU movie didn't captivate TPTB and make them want to do another dozen films with him? 23 hours ago, Bruinsfan said: No, really? You mean Affleck's dead-eyed stare and phoned-in delivery in his last DCEU movie didn't captivate TPTB and make them want to do another dozen films with him? ????????? 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4417412
Spartan Girl June 16, 2018 Share June 16, 2018 Good riddance, Batfleck! 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4419107
MarkHB June 16, 2018 Author Share June 16, 2018 On another note, she's baaaack... incidentally, if you're in the DC area and have gotten notified about a film called "Magic Spot" filming.... It's Wonder Woman 1984. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4419197
starri June 16, 2018 Share June 16, 2018 Bigger picture from Gal's official Twitter. Do those colors seem brighter to anyone else? I wholeheartedly approve. 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4419207
MarkHB June 16, 2018 Author Share June 16, 2018 3 hours ago, starri said: Do those colors seem brighter to anyone else? I wholeheartedly approve. The costume? That stood out to me as well, although everyplace she wore it in WW was muted in tones anyway, because of the bleakness of World War I. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4419456
VCRTracking June 16, 2018 Share June 16, 2018 14 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4420110
Bruinsfan June 17, 2018 Share June 17, 2018 14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said: Good riddance, Batfleck! To be fair though, I thought his acting was fine in most of BvS, he was just hampered by the horrible writing and direction. He seemed to be doing his best with a bad hand at the time; you can see the exact moment when all his enthusiasm for the role dies in that Sad Affleck video. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4420478
MarkHB June 17, 2018 Author Share June 17, 2018 OK, the second photo on this post is priceless (WW84 set photo, possible spoiler). In fact, that Twitter account has a LOT of pics from the recent filming in Washington. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4420800
JessePinkman June 18, 2018 Share June 18, 2018 They're really leaning into certain aspects that are fundamental to WW's character and I am here for it! They're also doing this and I think I'm in love. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4422447
Joe June 19, 2018 Share June 19, 2018 So WB have come up with a new plan: to make better movies. It's a bold strategy. I hope it works for them. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4425063
stealinghome June 19, 2018 Share June 19, 2018 It's so sad that that's NOT an Onion headline. 15 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4425089
Fukui San June 19, 2018 Share June 19, 2018 23 minutes ago, Joe said: So WB have come up with a new plan: to make better movies. It's a bold strategy. I hope it works for them. They've tried everything else! 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4425119
PepSinger June 19, 2018 Share June 19, 2018 Gotta love that the entire DCEU is being carried on the backs of two women. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4425234
Matt K June 19, 2018 Share June 19, 2018 That interview is nuts. Who would have thought that making quality movies was the way to go (the answer is everyone), what a radical idea. Also it sounds like Aquaman is in trouble. It seems like the Vfx may not be ready or good by the time the movie is supposed to come out. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4426494
Bruinsfan June 19, 2018 Share June 19, 2018 If that's the case, delay the damn movie until the effects are up to snuff. Rushing things on Justice League helped cost them hundreds of millions of dollars and made the studio a laughingstock yet again. Admittedly, I've probably gotten more entertainment value out of Henry Cavill mustache shenanigans than I would have out of a much better superhero team movie, but none of that has been monetized for WB. 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4426566
Ms.Moon June 19, 2018 Share June 19, 2018 The WB should have did the work from the beginning. They want to make the type of money Marvel makes with the Marvel Universe but Marvel did the work from the beginning. The proof is in the pudding as the saying goes. They also need to get rid of that very ugly filter or whatever it is they use when making their movies that make the coloring look brassy and dark it's depressing to look at. Marvel did not even have the shared universe until several movies in, there were hints around the shared universe over several movies but nothing came together until there were established heroes in their own movies and those movies were good as well. The only DCU movie I enjoyed was Wonder Woman because the colors were fantastic Themyscira was absolutely gorgeous, the story was compelling and the crap CGI fight at the end was not enough to take away from the movie. WB needs to hire better writers and stay from the Justice League for awhile. Make better solo movies for their heroes then revisit the team. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4426732
Matt K June 19, 2018 Share June 19, 2018 On that topic, what is up with the CGI on DC movies. Wonder Woman's was pretty bad and from what I've read/seen the other movies aren't any better. Meanwhile, Marvel seems to have little trouble getting out good CGI. Is WB's in house department just not very good, are they just tighter with budgeting these things, do they not get enough time or what? Looking into Justice League, one of the Vfx companies is Scanline which apparently worked on Iron Man 3 and The Avengers. Rodeo Fx also worked on JL as well as Thor 3, Black Panther and Deadpool. So it seems like it's not the Vfx company being crap. It seems more like mismanagement of time or money. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4426928
Perfect Xero June 19, 2018 Share June 19, 2018 I don't even think the issue is a lack of work, Superman, Superman/Batman team up , and Wonder Woman followed by using Justice League to launch solo movies for Flash and Aquaman could have worked, the problem was the tone and quality of everything that wasn't Wonder Woman. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4426984
MarkHB June 19, 2018 Author Share June 19, 2018 35 minutes ago, Matt K said: On that topic, what is up with the CGI on DC movies. Honestly, I've never had an issue with the CGI on any of their movies, or with CGI in general. I will except some of Green Lantern from that, and with that it was the lurid glowing space rocks that looked like an arcade cabinet that I didn't like; I thought the CGI / ring-construct suit and mask were fine. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4427015
PepSinger June 20, 2018 Share June 20, 2018 Yeah, I've never had a problem with the CGI in DCEU movies, either. I've watched Wonder Woman an ungodly amount of times, and I didn't think the CGI during the final battle was bad at all. If anything, the issue is that there's too much all at once, and the final fight had Snyder written all over it. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4427729
stealinghome June 20, 2018 Share June 20, 2018 (edited) I don't know if this is true, but I read somewhere that Wonder Woman had a significantly smaller CGI budget than the other DCEU films, so that could explain the CGI in that one, at least. That seems right given that WW had a much smaller budget overall than the other DCEU movies--Man of Steel, which had the next-lowest budget, still had $75 million more. Suck it, patriarchy. It's not amazing, but I didn't think the CGI in Wonder Woman was bad until the final fight, where it was somewhere between subpar and okay. I do think there was too much all at once, but also Ares becoming a mustache-twirling villain doesn't help...the story going off the rails a little bit kind of draws the attention to the same thing happening with the vfx. Though really, I wish more superhero movies would step away from vfx and embrace real, practical fight scenes. imo easily the best fight scene in Wonder Woman is the Amazons vs the Germans on the beach, and the Marvel movie with the best fights is Winter Soldier. What links those scenes? The fact that they are (relatively speaking) vfx-light. Edited June 20, 2018 by stealinghome 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4427910
Bruinsfan June 20, 2018 Share June 20, 2018 I think the problem with the Wonder Woman final battle mostly wasn't the quality of the CGI rendering per se, it was that for 20 minutes the movie turned into a videogame end boss fight against an empty ruined background with an orange filter (Ares repeatedly shouting I WILL DESTROY YOU!!!1! certainly didn't help, either). The only specific shots I recall looking awful in isolation were Diana holding the tank over Dr. Poison and her speedskating mow-down of German soldiers on the tarmac. But given how great Paradise Island, the No Man's Land scene, and this fight looked I'm willing to forgive a lot. The VFX in Man of Steel were breathtaking throughout, even if I question some decisions made on the design and narrative ends (i.e., the dildo rockets, Lois Lane somehow falling downward while the Phantom Zone portal pulled everything else UP). Everything looked real. Batman v. Superman was a mixed bag. Some of the CGI looked really good, if more stylized than MoS, but you can see where the effects houses ran out of time to render things in the final fight. As well as it suffering all of the problems of the WW final fight except villain soundbites. Likewise with Justice League. I thought some scenes like the Amazons' fight against Steppenwolf, the League's first fight with him, and a couple of the Flash's slow motion sequences looked great. But the last half hour was way too videogame-y, even if more colorful than previous climactic battles. And in addition to Henry Cavill's freakish depilatory CGI, the Metropolis fight also included really obvious greenscreen work like Diana being pulled forward by her lasso and the city background in general. Suicide Squad was just a shitshow all the way around. The only scenes I remember looking good were the Joker/Harley/Batman chase and Enchantress' first transformation in the DoD meeting room. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4428721
MarkHB June 21, 2018 Author Share June 21, 2018 12 hours ago, Bruinsfan said: but you can see where the effects houses ran out of time to render things in the final fight That I will certainly give you. There was one long shot in the BvS final battle that had Doomsday leaping with all the smoothness, grace and subtlety of a minotaur in the Golden Voyage of Sinbad. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4431595
wingster55 June 22, 2018 Share June 22, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 5:23 PM, Perfect Xero said: I don't even think the issue is a lack of work, Superman, Superman/Batman team up , and Wonder Woman followed by using Justice League to launch solo movies for Flash and Aquaman could have worked, the problem was the tone and quality of everything that wasn't Wonder Woman. Aka it wasn't joke fest, and thus it couldn't possibly be a good movie. They should have made Superman into a buffoon like they did with Thor! Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4434703
Perfect Xero June 22, 2018 Share June 22, 2018 3 hours ago, wingster55 said: Aka it wasn't joke fest, and thus it couldn't possibly be a good movie. They should have made Superman into a buffoon like they did with Thor! Was Wonder Woman a jokefest that played her as a buffoon? Maybe just don't make Superman GrimDarkSpaceJesus who has no friends. And don't make Batman an insane racist. 13 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4435158
JessePinkman June 22, 2018 Share June 22, 2018 Just write Superman the same way they write Captain America...or ya know, the way they wrote Christopher Reeve's Superman! You have a perfect template right there, this shouldn't be so hard. You can't...take Batman and his aesthetic and mold it over Superman. Clark has a tragic back story but he's not tragic. He's a good man raised by good people to do good. Yes, his home planet exploded but he didn't know that until he was an adult! He's fine. 19 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4435169
Bruinsfan June 22, 2018 Share June 22, 2018 Salt in the wound is that in every interview I've ever seen, Henry Cavill's own personality would be perfect for Superman. All he has to do is use an American accent and he's there! 10 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4435520
HunterHunted June 23, 2018 Share June 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Perfect Xero said: And don't make Batman an insane racist. A dumb insane racist. The bulk of Batman's "detecting" is breaking into Lex Luthor's files to find Lex's secret research on the individuals who would be in the Justice League. I don't know if the issue is because they cast Affleck. But not only is his Batman not smart, he's certainly not the World's Greatest Detective. Warner Brothers problem is that they don't understand the characters all that well. They've got an a Barry/Flash that's annoying and weird, a Clark/Superman that's morose, a Bruce/Batman who is racist and kind of dumb, a manic Lex, and an Arthur/Aquaman who is just Jason Momoa, who I like so I'll swallow it. 10 hours ago, JessePinkman said: Just write Superman the same way they write Captain America...or ya know, the way they wrote Christopher Reeve's Superman! You have a perfect template right there, this shouldn't be so hard. You can't...take Batman and his aesthetic and mold it over Superman. Clark has a tragic back story but he's not tragic. He's a good man raised by good people to do good. Yes, his home planet exploded but he didn't know that until he was an adult! He's fine. I've been rewatching Justice League Unlimited episodes. I just rewatched "For the Man Who Has Everything." I think it's so telling that Clark's perfect world is him as a married farmer on Krypton. He has a son and his wife is an amalgam of Lois and Lana. It's so pure and simple. Yes, I know that the episode is based on an Alan Moore comic, but I think what the Timmverse did was distill the characters and story down to the essentials. Clark isn't a super complicated guy; his perfect world reflects the guy he is. Bruce's perfect world involves Thomas Wayne beating Joe Chill to death and even Bruce is tuned in enough to know that it isn't right. The animated folks get the characters in a way the live action people don't. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4436571
wingster55 June 23, 2018 Share June 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Perfect Xero said: Was Wonder Woman a jokefest that played her as a buffoon? Maybe just don't make Superman GrimDarkSpaceJesus who has no friends. And don't make Batman an insane racist. How could he not be a darker version when the world that he wants to protect doesn't trust or believe in him? And that the point of the trilogy was to get him to that place. Not sure how Batman is a racist though. 10 hours ago, Perfect Xero said: Was Wonder Woman a jokefest that played her as a buffoon? Point, but people seem to have preferred Thor 3 based on box office which I will never understand. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4436594
Fukui San June 23, 2018 Share June 23, 2018 30 minutes ago, wingster55 said: How could he not be a darker version when the world that he wants to protect doesn't trust or believe in him? And that the point of the trilogy was to get him to that place. That's not a story you should tell with Superman because it fits no known conception in Superman's history. It could have been a valid superhero story for, say, Spiderman. Distrust of the public is baked into that character's DNA. Or Punisher or Batman. Putting that story to Superman is ill fitting at best. Starting from a baseline where the base characteristic of Superman is not one of moral certitude and good intentions is just weird. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4436657
wingster55 June 23, 2018 Share June 23, 2018 He's only darker because he's a bit more brooding based on that distrust and what he did to Zod. It has nothing to do with his personality or his desire to help. Having Superman be distrusted because he's all powerful is a very logical response from the people, government etc. Plus...there can't be new/different versions of the character? He has to be exactly the same as the Reeve movies, comics etc? 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4436789
Fukui San June 23, 2018 Share June 23, 2018 If you want your movie to be called Superman then you should maybe write the character to fit within the character traits commonly associated with Superman as it has been portrayed over the course of eight decades of research and development. You COULD write a version of Captain America in which he grew up disillusioned with America, fought on the side of the Nazis, and only came to the side of America grudgingly, but you shouldn’t expect it to be broadly popular and accepted. 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4437148
starri June 24, 2018 Share June 24, 2018 On 6/22/2018 at 11:42 PM, wingster55 said: Point, but people seem to have preferred Thor 3 based on box office which I will never understand. Well, Wonder Woman, while great, had to battle against the fact that it was fourth in the line of three stinkers. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4438948
wingster55 June 24, 2018 Share June 24, 2018 On 6/23/2018 at 10:45 AM, Fukui San said: If you want your movie to be called Superman then you should maybe write the character to fit within the character traits commonly associated with Superman as it has been portrayed over the course of eight decades of research and development. You COULD write a version of Captain America in which he grew up disillusioned with America, fought on the side of the Nazis, and only came to the side of America grudgingly, but you shouldn’t expect it to be broadly popular and accepted. Being a bit darker isn't the same as fighting with Nazis. There's a thing called a journey. 8 hours ago, starri said: On 6/22/2018 at 11:42 PM, wingster55 said: Well, Wonder Woman, while great, had to battle against the fact that it was fourth in the line of three stinkers. Not in my eyes. Thor 3 itself was one in a line of generic term movies from 2014. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4439708
HunterHunted June 25, 2018 Share June 25, 2018 (edited) No one will ever accuse the DCEU movies of being generic. They are unique and memorably bad. This is a grand overstatement on my part because the films aren't all terrible or bad, but they are lacking in very similar ways and jokes are the least of their issues. It's fine to explore a Superman who lives in a world that is suspicious and distrusts him. However, give some narrative weight to Clark's dilemma of whether to use his powers. Man of Steel begins with Clark saving the workers on the oil platform so that by the time we get to Pa Kent's terrible "conceal don't feel" argument, which worked out so well for Elsa, the audience already knows what choice Clark has made. Furthermore, it undermines Clark's choice because it makes every story choice until he goes public as Superman, which occurs more than halfway through the movie, feel like dithering. It's like shit, you decided months (years?) ago that you wanted to help people, why are you working at this crappy bar/restaurant in the middle of nowhere. Man of Steel poorly implies that Clark is conflicted about using his powers when textually everything supports his decision. His failure to use his powers results in his father's death. He walks the earth like Kwai Chang Caine from Kung Fu saving people in amazing ways and building up this folkloric mythos of this journeyman hero that Lois can investigate, but not one of those people says to Lois someone should lock his ass up. When he uses his powers to save his classmates, Pete's mother regards him as a hero and a miracle. It also softens Pete towards Clark. However Pa Kent continues to act like Clark should never use his powers because humans would be scared, which is based on nothing depicted in the film until that point. Like the film says that his powers are great, but treats it like the exact opposite. It's like winning the lottery, but treating it like you found out you had terminal cancer. When Clark appears as Superman, the military freaks because Superman doesn't mean anything to them. Superman isn't a thing. The only people who know that Superman doesn't mean them harm are Martha and Lois. Conversely, Clark has been raised on Earth for 30 years and prior to his outing by Zod, the only indication he ever got that the outside world hated him was from his dad. By the time we get to BvS, we see mixed reactions to Superman, which is fine. However by the time we get to Justice League, we hear characters espouse that Superman was this beloved symbol of heroism that none of the movies ever show. He wasn't really Superman until the end of MoS and half the world hated him in BvS. Batman has the insane overreactions of a xenophobic idiot in BvS. His idiocy more than anything is a huge issue. He's a billionaire industrialist who uses none of his connections to government or the military to find out more about Superman or the Kryptonians. Instead he has to break into Lex Luthor's servers. I mean really. Batman has always been depicted as unbelievably pragmatic. However, this Batman clearly isn't. He's not pragmatic, but worried that a Superman who prevented the terraforming of the earth and death of 7 billion people has an even more nefarious plan. Batman does none of his own investigating or research. He uses Lex's info without wondering if the rest of the potential league members are aliens or plants with grand designs on earth. He doesn't even do his own research to verify that Lex's info is true. Batman does construct his own complicated contingencies for Superman. Batman is so paranoid and cynical that he doesn't trust law enforcement, but he does trust Lex Luthor?* Batman is also ridiculously brutal. He continues to brand his victims knowing that prisoners with the brand are executed in prison. When we get Justice League characters to talk about Superman as this symbol of hope that we've never seen on screen, half the the world hated Superman in BvS, all we know of the other heroes is secret Luthor files, and we get crappy hallmark sentinments. If Superman was an inspiration to them, he inspired them to middling heroing that only Lex Luthor investigated. So yeah, those are the reasons I'm not a fan of the DCEU. They have nothing to do with jokes. And if someone broke down the MCU films that I love, film by film and moment by moment, you'd find that "jokes" don't rank too high. Enjoyment has nothing to do with "jokes." I enjoy lots of films without jokes. If Thor 3 was enjoyable, it was because it was enjoyable. And if Thor was a "buffoon" in the film, it was because he wasn't remotely compelling in the prior movies. I'd be capable of a more cogent argument if my air conditioning hadn't failed in 100 degree heat. And much like my feeling that the Cap/Falcon friendship is hilariously underwritten, I realize no one listening to me, the idea that the DCEU is failing because of lack of jokes is maybe apocrypha. *However, these films make a great case for Alfred or Lex being secret protagonists. Edited June 25, 2018 by HunterHunted 13 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4440219
GHScorpiosRule June 25, 2018 Share June 25, 2018 9 hours ago, HunterHunted said: No one will ever accuse the DCEU movies of being generic. They are unique and memorably bad. This is a grand overstatement on my part because the films aren't all terrible or bad, but they are lacking in very similar ways and jokes are the least of their issues. It's fine to explore a Superman who lives in a world that is suspicious and distrusts him. However, give some narrative weight to Clark's dilemma of whether to use his powers. Man of Steel begins with Clark saving the workers on the oil platform so that by the time we get to Pa Kent's terrible "conceal don't feel" argument, which worked out so well for Elsa, the audience already knows what choice Clark has made. Furthermore, it undermines Clark's choice because it makes every story choice until he goes public as Superman, which occurs more than halfway through the movie, feel like dithering. It's like shit, you decided months (years?) ago that you wanted to help people, why are you working at this crappy bar/restaurant in the middle of nowhere. Man of Steel poorly implies that Clark is conflicted about using his powers when textually everything supports his decision. His failure to use his powers results in his father's death. He walks the earth like Kwai Chang Caine from Kung Fu saving people in amazing ways and building up this folkloric mythos of this journeyman hero that Lois can investigate, but not one of those people says to Lois someone should lock his ass up. When he uses his powers to save his classmates, Pete's mother regards him as a hero and a miracle. It also softens Pete towards Clark. However Pa Kent continues to act like Clark should never use his powers because humans would be scared, which is based on nothing depicted in the film until that point. Like the film says that his powers are great, but treats it like the exact opposite. It's like winning the lottery, but treating it like you found out you had terminal cancer. When Clark appears as Superman, the military freaks because Superman doesn't mean anything to them. Superman isn't a thing. The only people who know that Superman doesn't mean them harm are Martha and Lois. Conversely, Clark has been raised on Earth for 30 years and prior to his outing by Zod, the only indication he ever got that the outside world hated him was from his dad. By the time we get to BvS, we see mixed reactions to Superman, which is fine. However by the time we get to Justice League, we hear characters espouse that Superman was this beloved symbol of heroism that none of the movies never show. He wasn't really Superman until the end of MoS and half the world hated him in BvS. Batman has the insane overreactions of a xenophobic idiot in BvS. His idiocy more than anything is a huge issue. He's a billionaire industrialist who uses none of his connections to government or the military to find out more about Superman or the Kryptonians. Instead he has to break into Lex Luthor's servers. I mean really. Batman has always been depicted as unbelievably pragmatic. However, this Batman clearly isn't. He's not pragmatic, but worried that a Superman who prevented the terraforming of the earth and death of 7 billion people has an even more nefarious plan. Batman does none of his own investigating or research. He uses Lex's info without wondering if the rest of the potential league members are aliens or plants with grand designs on earth. He doesn't even do his own research to verify that Lex's info is true. Batman does construct his own complicated contingencies for Superman. Batman is so paranoid and cynical that he doesn't trust law enforcement, but he does trust Lex Luthor?* Batman is also ridiculously brutal. He continues to brand his victims knowing that prisoners with the brand are executed in prison. When we get Justice League characters to talk about Superman as this symbol of hope that we've never seen on screen, half the the world hated Superman in BvS, all we know of the other heroes is secret Luthor files, and we get crappy hallmark sentinments. If Superman was an inspiration to them, he inspired them to middling heroing that only Lex Luthor investigated. So yeah, those are the reasons I'm not a fan of the DCEU. They have nothing to do with jokes. And if someone broke down the MCU films that I love, film by film and moment by moment, you'd find that "jokes" don't rank too high. Enjoyment has nothing to do with "jokes." I enjoy lots of films without jokes. If Thor 3 was enjoyable, it was because it was enjoyable. And if Thor was a "buffoon" in the film, it was because he wasn't remotely compelling in the prior movies. I'd be capable of a more cogent argument if my air conditioning hadn't failed in 100 degree heat. And much like my feeling that the Cap/Falcon friendship is hilariously underwritten, I realize no one listening to me, the idea that the DCEU is failing because of lack of jokes is maybe apocrypha. *However, these films make a great case for Alfred or Lex being secret protagonists. If I could, I'd love/like this post a gazillion million times! Especially your analysis of Supes. And asshat Pa Kent. I remember thinking and hoping that words coming out of Costner's mouth in one of the trailers saying "yes" to Clark's question about should he have let Pete ( I think? or maybe all of his classmates in the bus) die? And it pissed me off that it wasn't some nightmare. After Donner's Superman movies with Christopher Reeve, only in animation have I see the Superman I know and love. Layered; good; but still flawed (His reaction to Captain Marvel/Shazam and how he was manipulated into that whole thing was great storytelling. Hell the whole CADMUS arc was brilliant!), and still looked up to and beloved. And when Darkseid brainwashed him, he had to earn back people's trust. And for the most part, he did. But he did lose some friends. Snyder's idea of Supes? Not even close. And DO NOT get me started on this version of "Batman." KevinFUCKING!Conroy!! is the Gold/Diamond/Platinum (or whatever is the highest) standard of who BOTH Bruce Wayne and Batman are. Even in the last season of B:TAS, of him being a raging asshole. And I didn't find Thor a buffoon at all in Thor 3. He was hilarious. The movie was just fun, mixed in with Hella's darkness, death and mayhem. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4440703
mattie0808 June 25, 2018 Share June 25, 2018 14 hours ago, HunterHunted said: No one will ever accuse the DCEU movies of being generic. They are unique and memorably bad. This is a grand overstatement on my part because the films aren't all terrible or bad, but they are lacking in very similar ways and jokes are the least of their issues... Standing O. There are smaller issues we may not agree on, but your breakdown of Superman (and Batman) is fully applause worthy. I will never understand how the movie people just didn’t get it. It’s not that hard. 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4441368
Bruinsfan June 25, 2018 Share June 25, 2018 And it's been gotten right by the animation arm of the same damn studio for how many years? All that talent, expertise, and familiarity with the characters just wasted shamefully. 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4441504
BetterButter June 27, 2018 Share June 27, 2018 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4446375
VCRTracking June 27, 2018 Share June 27, 2018 (edited) Wiig looks like her SNL character Penelope, LOL! Edited June 27, 2018 by VCRTracking Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4446528
Bruinsfan June 27, 2018 Share June 27, 2018 God, I hope she doesn't act like one of her many, MANY attention-hungry SNL characters. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/24846-the-dc-extended-universe-to-thanagar-and-beyond/page/14/#findComment-4446556
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