S01.E10: Marco

[ToastnBacon]

If I understand the chronology correctly, Hamlin first met Jimmy no earlier than 1992

• the series first starts in 2002 when we see Saul defending the three wayward youth in court
• later that year Jimmy returns home to see Marco (or perhaps it's now 2003, I'm not sure how much time has elapsed between the first and last episode)
• Marco mentions it's been 10 years since he last saw Jimmy, which was right before Jimmy moved to ABQ to work in his brother's law firm.

 

I mention this because Hamlin told Jimmy that Hamlin always kind of liked Jimmy, that Hamlin used to call Jimmy "Charlie Hustle", and asked if Jimmy remembered.  Jimmy said he did.

 

"Charlie Hustle" sounds like a good nickanme, but "Charlie Hustle" was also Pete Rose's nickname.  The nickname was first given when Rose was a rookie baseball player because he worked hard and showed a lot of drive.  Eventually Pete Rose became Major League Baseball's all-time hit leader and the Cincinnati Reds manager.

 

In 1989, 3 years before Hamlin could have met Jimmy, Pete Rose was banned from baseball for betting on games that he had managed for the Reds.  This also made Rose ineligible for the Hall of Fame even though he was the all-time hit leader.

 

So calling someone "Charlie Hustle" in 1992 is giving them a very Slippin' Jimmy kind of nickname.

I'm not buying Hamlin's 180 either.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Kim and Hamlin are sleeping together.

When Kim went down to talk to Jimmy, she was clearly gathering information for Hamlin so he would know what to expect.

[haydensterling]

If Jimmy is going to be the mirror image of Walter White, why am I watching this show?  I watched BrBa, I loved it, I'm not interested in seeing the same story twice and I have hopes that Vince and Co. are a lot smarter than that.

 

If anything, I'm trying to watch this show as divorced from BrBa as I can, because at this point I really am more interested in Jimmy than in seeing Walt or Jesse show up on my screen--although not gonna lie, I kind of wanted that when this was first announced.  

 

I never thought Saul was a bad guy either, so I'm not upset that Jimmy's going to get there, what makes me sad is the regular ass-kicking and emotional beating he's taken on the road to Saul.

Edited April 7, 2015 by haydensterling

[Bannon]

I don't think I saw any of that at all in these 10 episodes. He didn't "enjoy" putting together the shredded paper. I didn't see him enjoying the cons with Marco, either. His sudden decision in the parking lot, and the line about what stopped him taking the million, felt forced to me.

When I saw the orginal Rolex watch scam, I saw pure enjoyment, even if he wished the stakes were larger. I saw a guy having fun when he and Marco pulled the Kennedy half dollar scam, on the guy in the suit who was trying to make a mark out of Jimmy. Jimmy likes turning the tables on people who think they have Jimmy in a vice, and being a partner in a good law firm doesn't provide that. Being Saul in a strip mall office will. I bet he wishes he had gotten some of the money Ma and Pa Kettle stole, while really putting the screws to Ma Kettle especially, since Ma Kettle was working so hard to put the screws to Jimmy. Jimmy doesn't try to shaft the old people, because the old people haven't done anything to try to harm Jimmy, and Jimmy has no enjoyment from malice in and of itself. I'm interested if Jimmy's latent love for Chuck will overcome any desire for getting some measure of revenge for the way that Chuck shafted Jimmy.

 

I do think the montage  was in some measure poorly executed and clunky , and that is an issue in making this development feeling non-forced. Like I said, it wasn't my favorite episode, but I don't think it was the clunker that some do.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Bannon

[Ronin Jackson]

Being a successful, normal, attorney only has substantial value (and I don't know how you seperate what is best for a person without considering what a person thinks is important to that person) to Jimmy if it comes with Chuck thinking well of Jimmy. If that is unobtainable, and Chuck has clearly stated that Chuck will never view Jimmy in a positive light, no matter what the future holds, then Jimmy is going to use his legal training in a manner which he finds most enjoyable. He may find dealing with seniors to be non-torturous, perhaps even semi-enjoyable at times, because Jimmy isn't a black-hearted shark who simply wants to maximize every chance, but he gets no rush from it. He likes the action, and working with other lawyers in a normal firm, putting in his time to become partner, doesn't provide that which he finds most enjoyable. Being Saul, working with clients who are frequently on the fringe, doing what he wants to do, wthout consulting with partners, is what he thinks will be most satisfying. Jimmy is done with having other human beings having input as to what Jimmy's choices will be, and that is what makes him Saul. He is sort of the mirror image of Walter White, who was always, always, always, to a large degree, reacting to the actions and rhetoric of other human beings.

Again, the comparison with Walter White's decision was that they are both crossroads moments, which they plainly are. How do you separate what is best for a person with what they consider important? Well you can answer that question with other questions. Has a person ever made a mistake? Has a person ever regretted a decision? If we isolate Jimmy's decisions to what he knows at the moment he makes it, we have to ignore the fact that the writers of the show have chosen, both in this show and by its nature of being a prequel spinoff, to let us know where Saul is headed. Even beyond knowing what becomes of him in BB, we are shown his future existence in Omaha. This is a narrative choice that gives the audience context that Jimmy himself doesn't have and we are certainly free to use that to form an opinion on what is best for Jimmy. This isn't to say that Jimmy would find the life of a lawyer for a big firm more satisfying than being the rogue, edgy Houdini like criminal lawyer we know he's becoming. The same as a barfly wouldn't find a quiet life at home more satisfying than piling up tabs at bars night after night. But does that mean being a drunk is the best thing for the barfly? We can perhaps agree to disagree there, but we can probably agree that the latter will atleast make for more entertaining television.

[lucindabelle]

But the original Rolex scam was years ago.

 

I didn't see fun... other than he was having fun with Marco. Maybe a little pleasure at pulling it off, but it didn't look very different to me than the earlier pleasure he'd had at Bingo or in working his real cases.

 

It seems like a writer's issue-- they have to find some way to get this character into a strip mall because that's already written. But most lawyers who are ambulance chasers (any?) haven't had the opportunity Jimmy just had and walked away from it... it doesn't really make sense. That character is a hustler who's lacked a break. Jimmy just got a break and didn't want it.

 

I do think they could have made me believe it if they'd salted in more of his temptation, wish for money, etc. But they didn't.

[Bannon]

If Jimmy is going to be the mirror image of Walter White, why am I watching this show?  I watched BrBa, I loved it, I'm not interested in seeing the same story twice and I have hopes that Vince and Co. are a lot smarter than that.

 

If anything, I'm trying to watch this show as divorced from BrBa as I can, because at this point I really am more interested in Jimmy than in seeing Walt or Jesse show up on my screen--although not gonna lie, I kind of wanted that when this was first announced.  

Perhaps "mirror image" was a poor description. My point was that Jimmy is rather disimilar to Walter White.

[wrestlesflamingos]

I would have rathered a ghost turned Jimmy into Saul.

[Bannon]

But the original Rolex scam was years ago.

 

I didn't see fun... other than he was having fun with Marco. Maybe a little pleasure at pulling it off, but it didn't look very different to me than the earlier pleasure he'd had at Bingo or in working his real cases.

 

It seems like a writer's issue-- they have to find some way to get this character into a strip mall because that's already written. But most lawyers who are ambulance chasers (any?) haven't had the opportunity Jimmy just had and walked away from it... it doesn't really make sense. That character is a hustler who's lacked a break. Jimmy just got a break and didn't want it.

 

I do think they could have made me believe it if they'd salted in more of his temptation, wish for money, etc. But they didn't.

I know quite a few people who have kept running what are essentially one man shops, even if not one man law firms, when they had the opportunity to become part of a larger operation, with all the economic security and potential doing so entails, because they either know or strongly suspect that working with partners will make the industry they operate within rather less enjoyable. Perhaps that's why it makes sense to me; I've seen it.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Bannon

[lucindabelle]

I can totally see people who have businesses wanting to work for themselves. I just don't think it makes sense for an ambulance chaser in a strip mall. And for someone who's parting words are about money, it really really doesn't make sense...

[haydensterling]

I also thought the ending was kind of ham-fisted, to be honest.  What I would have liked to see was Jimmy standing outside the offices, twisting Marco's ring, doing his showtime speech to work himself up and then a fade.  Something, anything other than the heavy-handed "And now, I'm Saul!" ending that we got.  

 

I suspect we're still going to see hints of Jimmy in the next season, but the way that this season was wrapped up didn't work for me.

[Constantinople]

I don't think I saw any of that at all in these 10 episodes. He didn't "enjoy" putting together the shredded paper. I didn't see him enjoying the cons with Marco, either. His sudden decision in the parking lot, and the line about what stopped him taking the million, felt forced to me.

 

It felt forced to me as well

 

Jimmy likes to outwit people, he likes to schmooze and he's willing to work, though he may not always enjoy the day-to-day grind.  He could be a successful "legtimate" attorney.  After all being a con man has some downside to it, probably has its own grind, and it's not as if every con is going to work on every mark.

 

Some have speculated this episode was written as a series ending episode in case BCS wasn't picked-up.  If true, I don't think that's a good reason.  Write a season ender.  If it gets picked-up, continue from there; if doesn't, there are always interviews to tell people what might have happened.

 

I think the scene with Mike would have been better if Jimmy just asked why Mike didn't take the money, Mike said he has a job to do and left it at that with Jimmy driving off, saying nothing more.  That ties in with Mike's talk with "Pryce" in the previous episode about "good" criminals and leaves ambiguity about what Jimmy will do next.

 

That being said:

 

I didn't like Jimmy's decision not to attend the court meeting (or hearing), in effect his partnership interview, at the last minute.  I've seen that scene before in other shows and movies and nothing about this version was distictive or particularly well done (not that it was done poorly, just average).

 

Jimmy may no longer care what Chuck thinks about him, but I'd be surprised that if Jimmy doesn't care what Kim thinks about him.  I can't imagine she'd ever think well of Saul Goodman.

 

I was slow to pick-up that Marco would die, but it was obvious even to me once Marco coughed in the alleyway.

 

The montage felt very ordinary and been there / done that.

[lucindabelle]

I also thought the ending was kind of ham-fisted, to be honest.  What I would have liked to see was Jimmy standing outside the offices, twisting Marco's ring, doing his showtime speech to work himself up and then a fade.  Something, anything other than the heavy-handed "And now, I'm Saul!" ending that we got.  

 

I suspect we're still going to see hints of Jimmy in the next season, but the way that this season was wrapped up didn't work for me.

 

Wow, that would have been MUCH better.

 

Most of the reasons that justify the ending seemed to be pragmatism, i.e., in case the series wasn't picked up; the writers needed to do it... not from character or story.

 

He could have got there any number of ways. Taken the job and then got tempted. (I definitely didn't want to see him blow the interview though. Cannot bear anymore Jimmy fails scenes). Or sabotaged, again. Or the firm loses its case and somehow they blame Jimmy. Who knows?

 

The sudden reversal felt wrong, forced, like car crash endings in student stories.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Jimmy may no longer care what Chuck thinks about him, but I'd be surprised that if Jimmy doesn't care what Kim thinks about him.  I can't imagine she'd ever think well of Saul Goodman.

 

The fact that he doesn't even show up is an insult to Kim and what she has tried to do for Jimmy.  So I think in real life it would pretty much blow up any future good relationship with Kim.  And that is what kind of surprised me most about his turnaround in the parking lot.  He could have at least gone in and been polite and decent, the way we have seen him quite a few times with the elders.  To not show up was rude to Kim for sure, and seems to indicate that he does not care too much what she thinks.  Which feels false to me.

[Former Nun]

Wham-bam, thank you, etc.   I feel used.

[PrincessSteel]

There were a few decisions with which I have minor quibbles. I wonder how this ep would have played without the convo with Mike at the booth: Jimmy pauses outside the courthouse, is reminded of Marco by the pinky ring and drives away from the possibilty of a straight job into the Land of Saul. Unlike some other commenters, I liked the montage sequence. I am the granddaughter of vaudeville mentalists, which is not exactly the same as being the descendant of con artists, but I recognized most of the scams from the brief throwaway lines and I want to research the ones that were not familiar. Minor quibbles and all, I am fully along for this ride! I am also oddly jealous of the duped waitress.

[Bannon]

I can totally see people who have businesses wanting to work for themselves. I just don't think it makes sense for an ambulance chaser in a strip mall. And for someone who's parting words are about money, it really really doesn't make sense...

Why wouldn't it make sense for an ambulance chaser in a strip mall? It seems to me that an ambulance chaser in a strip mall is exactly the sort of person who might conclude that having partners, who might look down on cheesy t.v. ads and strip mall offices, are people the ambulance chaser would rather avoid consulting with. I can think of a guy in my town who runs an office like that, even if I'm sure he has some lawyers he employs,  and with his track record of success, I can't believe he's never had the opportunity to be part of a larger firm.

 

I agree the line about the money may seem inconsistent, but I choose to see it as more of a lament about the opportunity missed out of a sense of needing to be respectable ("do the right thing") because doing so will help gain Chuck's esteem. Them days are over.

 

If I can make a brief comparison with BB (if this violates policy, please delete this paragraph, mods), I had a lot more issue with the decision to let Jesse live, after the actor proved very capable, and popular with the audience. In terms of the internal logic of a competently murderous criminal enterprise run by Gus and assisted by Mike, it made no sense for Jesse to be alive. As a whole, I enjoyed the decision, however.

 

I try to keep in mind how damnably difficult it is to execute long form episodic televiion drama consistently well.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Bannon

[lucindabelle]

I guess because I always think of ambulance chasers in strip malls as being desperate for business. I don't think any lawyer goes to law school to practice that way. And it just doesn't make sense to me to be desperate for business then willingly walk away from the opportunity to make money.

 

Not long ago advertising law at all was illegal. So law firms in general do look down upon lawyers who chase business. Jimmy has been shown all season as chasing business not so much for fun as to make his rent.

[Bannon]

I also thought the ending was kind of ham-fisted, to be honest.  What I would have liked to see was Jimmy standing outside the offices, twisting Marco's ring, doing his showtime speech to work himself up and then a fade.  Something, anything other than the heavy-handed "And now, I'm Saul!" ending that we got.  

 

I suspect we're still going to see hints of Jimmy in the next season, but the way that this season was wrapped up didn't work for me.

I also agree a more ambiguous ending would have been preferred.

[ToastnBacon]

Jimmy may no longer care what Chuck thinks about him, but I'd be surprised that if Jimmy doesn't care what Kim thinks about him. I can't imagine she'd ever think well of Saul Goodman.

.

Jimmy and Kim's relationship was never clearly defined. I got the impression that they had been having sex at some point, but it had turned into a platonic friendship.

She wouldn't marry a guy like Jimmy; she'd end up with a Hamlin before she would a Jimmy.

Kim rejected Jimmy, although it was a soft rejection. Kim is part of that world that Jimmy chose to reject when he touched the Marco ring and heard the call of the wild. ( cue the wolf howl).

He is now Saul, and Saul doesn't need a Kim in his life.

Saul can make do with seducing the nail shop ladies, or pick up women in whatever ABQ bar he goes to drink rusty nails at.

Edited April 7, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[Bannon]

I guess because I always think of ambulance chasers in strip malls as being desperate for business. I don't think any lawyer goes to law school to practice that way. And it just doesn't make sense to me to be desperate for business then willingly walk away from the opportunity to make money.

 

Not long ago advertising law at all was illegal. So law firms in general do look down upon lawyers who chase business. Jimmy has been shown all season as chasing business not so much for fun as to make his rent.

The real life guys who I see running Saul-like ad campaigns aren't desperate for business, or at least not any more desperate for business than traditional firms.  They run those campaigns because they work.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Bannon

[BigDaddy72]

Marco is Jimmy's hometown accomplice.

And Krazy 8 is delivering Dr Pepper.

[ghoulina]

Even beyond knowing what becomes of him in BB, we are shown his future existence in Omaha.

 

I watched series premiere again last night, in anticipation of the finale. That opening montage, although stylistically different, reminded me a lot of Mike's montage. They both ended a monotonous day, of trying to live a "normal" life, on the couch with a cold drink. Mike's monotonous life didn't last too long. Now, I know he didn't get into his line of business out of boredom. Not entirely anyhow. Maybe there was a bit of that, but he did it for Kayleigh. But watching that scene last night, and thinking of Mike, I just had to wonder - how long before Saul starts wheeling and dealing in Omaha. Is he going to be content in the Cinnabon forever? Probably a line of questioning more suitable for the spec thread....

[BigDaddy72]

I was hoping someone else noticed Crazy 8 driving the Dr. Pepper truck! That guy can NEVER play another role and not be "Crazy 8". Haha.

It felt forced to me as well

Jimmy likes to outwit people, he likes to schmooze and he's willing to work, though he may not always enjoy the day-to-day grind. He could be a successful "legtimate" attorney. After all being a con man has some downside to it, probably has its own grind, and it's not as if every con is going to work on every mark.

Some have speculated this episode was written as a series ending episode in case BCS wasn't picked-up. If true, I don't think that's a good reason. Write a season ender. If it gets picked-up, continue from there; if doesn't, there are always interviews to tell people what might have happened.

I think the scene with Mike would have been better if Jimmy just asked why Mike didn't take the money, Mike said he has a job to do and left it at that with Jimmy driving off, saying nothing more. That ties in with Mike's talk with "Pryce" in the previous episode about "good" criminals and leaves ambiguity about what Jimmy will do next.

That being said:

I didn't like Jimmy's decision not to attend the court meeting (or hearing), in effect his partnership interview, at the last minute. I've seen that scene before in other shows and movies and nothing about this version was distictive or particularly well done (not that it was done poorly, just average).

Jimmy may no longer care what Chuck thinks about him, but I'd be surprised that if Jimmy doesn't care what Kim thinks about him. I can't imagine she'd ever think well of Saul Goodman.

I was slow to pick-up that Marco would die, but it was obvious even to me once Marco coughed in the alleyway.

The montage felt very ordinary and been there / done that.

I think that what ultimately will send Jimmy to the dark side for good will be an ultimate betrayal by Kim. I feel like something is going to happen where he finds out that Kim has been using their friendship to gather information for Hamlin in some way. Something very bad has to happen between Jimmy and Kim this next season.

Or am I way off.

[ghoulina]

The fact that he doesn't even show up is an insult to Kim and what she has tried to do for Jimmy.  So I think in real life it would pretty much blow up any future good relationship with Kim.  And that is what kind of surprised me most about his turnaround in the parking lot.  He could have at least gone in and been polite and decent, the way we have seen him quite a few times with the elders.  To not show up was rude to Kim for sure, and seems to indicate that he does not care too much what she thinks.  Which feels false to me.

 

Exactly! I cannot see Jimmy doing that to Kim. They have that kind of friendship where they seem to really look out for each other. Why has that changed? It was like something just "struck" him as he touched the ring in the parking lot, but I've still no idea what it was. Something significant enough that he would insult his friend like that. He really could have just had the meeting and then made his own decision later. 

[wrestlesflamingos]

Kim is a softer version of Chuck. Neither of them are ever going to treat Jimmy as an equal. Whats worse? Leaving abruptly or watching someone you love pity you?

[Spartan Girl]

The Bingo scene was legendary.  Other than that I was a bit underwhelmed.  I really wish he would have at least starting calling himself Saul at the end of the season.

[WaitForMe]

I was hoping someone else noticed Crazy 8 driving the Dr. Pepper truck! That guy can NEVER play another role and not be "Crazy 8". Haha.

I think that what ultimately will send Jimmy to the dark side for good will be an ultimate betrayal by Kim. I feel like something is going to happen where he finds out that Kim has been using their friendship to gather information for Hamlin in some way. Something very bad has to happen between Jimmy and Kim this next season.

Or am I way off.

I totally agree!

[Uncle Benzene]

Please bear with me here, I know I'm going to end up hitting on a lot of things that have already been stated by others, I just need to work through it in my own words, if you don't mind.

 

I think this episode was about Jimmy finally liberating himself from the last ten years. I think it's not for nothing that in the cold open of the pilot, "Gene" went home from Cinnabon and waxed nostalgic over videos of Saul's commercials. Not the video of James McGill's "Hero" moment of "saving" the billboard guy. Not newspaper accounts of the same moment. Not anything related to Sandpiper or anything like that. He took comfort in Saul.

 

And I think what we've been shown all season is Jimmy struggling with his true nature. Struggling between who he really is, and who the rest of the world kept insisting he "should" be. I think this episode showed us that Jimmy never really wanted to leave Cicero, but he did so because Chuck basically demanded that he do so, and he felt a sense of obligation after Chuck had just saved his ass. And the ensuing ten years were all an extension of that sense of obligation. Not just to Chuck, but eventually just generally to this entire new life in Albuquerque. He had set himself out on a new path, one he's never been entirely comfortable with, but he kept on plugging along because that was what he was "supposed to do." He was downright wistful when he was telling the twins the story of Slippin' Jimmy. In his heart, his heart has never really been in it as James McGill, Esq. That's why we kept seeing him slip back into old habits, even if only temporarily. Because that's who he is, and more importantly, that's who he really wants to be.

 

So then, fresh off the Chuck incident, he recounts the Chicago Sunroof incident to the bingo folks, and I inferred that Jimmy was telling the story of sticking it to a douchebag who had wronged him. It should have been a triumph. But due to unforseen circumstances and unintended consequences, he "got screwed." And he basically got screwed out of his entire life, the life he preferred, running games with Marco, because he had to accept Chuck's terms in order to get himself out of the bind that -- yes, he put himself in -- but in Jimmy's mind was more about those boys being there when they shouldn't have been, and Bastard Chet and his damned illegally tinted windows being "connected."

 

Then he goes back home to reconnect with Marco and his old life as Slippin' Jimmy. Personally, I don't think Jimmy didn't call Marco when he was in town for his mom's funeral because of Chuck. I think he chose not to for himself, because James McGill "wasn't that guy anymore" and didn't want to see Marco, or felt like he shouldn't, or whatever. Which is why Jimmy felt like shit when Marco called him on it. Because Jimmy made the decision to forsake his old pal all on his own. I think it was pretty telling that Jimmy was wistful over his old Cutlass, and (if memory serves) made the first overture to Marco about running a game. He was back in his true element, for the first time in a long time, and he (still) liked it. I didn't get the impression at all that Jimmy wasn't enjoying his little vacation in Cicero. I think he was loving it, all week. For as hard as he has tried to divorce himself from it all over the last ten years, ultimately, the heart wants what it wants.

 

But then the pull of the obligation came back into the picture with the clients' messages. And "but he's my brother." But before he goes back, he relents and agrees to run one last game with Marco. And I think with Marco's last words "this was the best week of my life" the light finally went off over Jimmy's head. James McGill Esq is not who Jimmy wants to be. Never was. And it was a liberating realization. One that he still was unable to fully embrace right up until the moment he was about to go meet with Davis & Main. That was his crossroads moment. I think it's because he realized that before he went in, he was gonna have to take that pinky ring off. He was gonna have to put Marco in his pocket, because it would be unbecoming to be wearing a pinky ring in front of those kinds of people. In order to fit the image, he'd have to forsake his buddy once again. He'd have to put Marco in his pocket, he'd have to put himself in his pocket and dance for The Man. And it was only at that point when he finally decided once and for all "You know what? Fuck this. Fuck them. This is who I am." And with that, he was finally free of the shackles of all that obligation. Free to be himself, to return to his natural element, and to do so without shame.

 

Didn't seem forced or rushed to me at all. To the contrary, I think it was a perfectly logical and natural progression of events. Jimmy finally picked a side, and it was the side that fits best with his true nature. Which isn't that of a "bad guy" but a guy who's comfortable with the seedy underbelly. A guy who doesn't necessarily see grifters as "bad guys" any more than the griftees. A guy who doesn't see things in black and white, a guy who takes a certain kind of pride in defending somebody who maybe pulled a simple Chicago Sunroof to stick it to a douchebag and got himself into one hell of a bind because of it. A guy who is no longer ashamed of being looked down upon by the 1%. A guy who's no longer interested in being shit upon by The System. A guy who isn't beholden to what he's "supposed to" do or be. He's finally free. Free of Chuck, free of HHM, free of all of it.

 

Driving away from that parking lot (possibly for the last time?) sure reminded me of a certain Mr. Pinkman's final ride to freedom.

[Blakeston]

I have very mixed feelings about the ending.

 

On one hand, I kind of like that after all of this speculation about what the "origin story" would be for Saul Goodman - what horrible event would push Jimmy McGill over to the dark side - it turned out that he landed a great opportunity, but decided that he preferred crime.

 

(Obviously something horrible did happen to him, in the form of Chuck's betrayal. But Jimmy was ready to go back to Albuquerque and go back to practicing law even after learning about that.)

 

But on the other hand, it seems odd that the "I'm meant to be a criminal" decision coming so soon after he made a decision to leave Marco and the world of grifting behind.

 

It seemed like his thought process was:

 

1. Chuck will never respect me. Screw going straight! I'm going back to Illinois, to be a con man.

2. Wait, my clients need me! Being a con man just isn't satisfying enough.

3. Marco died, and said he loved our last week together, so I guess it is what I want to do.

 

I can buy steps 1 and 2, but not 3.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Kim is a softer version of Chuck. Neither of them are ever going to treat Jimmy as an equal. Whats worse? Leaving abruptly or watching someone you love pity you?

I'm not sure about this.  I think she does respect Jimmy, and doesn't pity him.  With him being on partner track in Santa Fe, they would be equals (she's not even a partner yet, is she?) and then some.  He has a huge case he brought that even HHM can't handle.  I think the scene looked like he was shafting her because he was thinking of himself, not her.  And I didn't feel like that was the Jimmy we've been shown.  He got the Kettleman case back to her.  They helped each other.  Now that is probably over. 

 

It seemed like his thought process was:

 

1. Chuck will never respect me. Screw going straight! I'm going back to Illinois, to be a con man.

2. Wait, my clients need me! Being a con man just isn't satisfying enough.

3. Marco died, and said he loved our last week together, so I guess it is what I want to do.

 

I can buy steps 1 and 2, but not 3.

I didn't take from it that he was doing step 3.  He was remembering Marco, and Marco's 'Smoke on the Water' theme was playing, but I don't think he wants to be Marco, scamming, sleeping on the bar at 4 p.m. and dying young.  He wants to be who he is, not who Chuck wants him to be, not a prestigious firm partner, not a Chicago scammer.  He wants to make money the way he wants to, not the boozy, smoky bar way and not the Chuck way, but his way.  He's bustin' loose.

[editorgrrl]

I was loving all the Chicago scenery, accents and even some super fan references like Marco hitting himself on the chest and eventually having a heart attack. Marco even said he's got frents (friends).

 

I totally got a "Bill Swerski's Superfans" vibe from the Cicero scenes, too.  I've seen Mel Rodriguez (Marco) as Todd on The Last Man on Earth and as Patsy on the American version of Getting On, so I knew the Chicahhhgo accent was deliberate.

 

[Blakeston]

I didn't take from it that he was doing step 3.  He was remembering Marco, and Marco's 'Smoke on the Water' theme was playing, but I don't think he wants to be Marco, scamming, sleeping on the bar at 4 p.m. and dying young.  He wants to be who he is, not who Chuck wants him to be, not a prestigious firm partner, not a Chicago scammer.  He wants to make money the way he wants to, not the boozy, smoky bar way and not the Chuck way, but his way.  He's bustin' loose.

 

But what happened that took him from, "I have to quit this life and go back to my clients" to "Screw this, I'm going to be a criminal?" The only clues we have are what happened to Marco, and that Kim helped him land a great opportunity with a top firm.

[ShadowFacts]

 

But what happened that took him from, "I have to quit this life and go back to my clients" to "Screw this, I'm going to be a criminal?" The only clues we have are what happened to Marco, and that Kim helped him land a great opportunity with a top firm.

I don't know if he knew what he was going to do when he hit Chicago.  I don't think he was re-entering that life.  He was having some fun and diversion with the scam-athon, successfully fleecing greedy people, running with Marco, but I didn't think he was finding a happy groove to fit into.  He was gone from there for ten years, his mother is dead, maybe taking in a Cubs game and eating some hotdogs wasn't going to be enough once Marco was dead. 

 

It just occurred to me he might have been suppressing some rage about what Chuck did to him that he somehow let the lid off in that parking lot.  At that moment, and it appears impulsive, he completely threw off taking that great opportunity because it was just too Chuck-like and he is now renouncing all things Chuck might have approved of.

[Bannon]

But what happened that took him from, "I have to quit this life and go back to my clients" to "Screw this, I'm going to be a criminal?" The only clues we have are what happened to Marco, and that Kim helped him land a great opportunity with a top firm.

He didn't go from "I have to quit this life and go back to my clients" to "Screw this, I'm going to be a criminal". He went from "I have to go back to my clients" to "I'll pull the good 'ol Rolex scam with my buddy Marco one last time, before going back" to "Sh*t! My buddy Marco dropped dead after spending the past 10 years doing crap he didn't like doing, and I've been doing stuff for the last decade which I fundamantally didn't enjoy, because I was trying to please somebody else; do I really want the legal training Iworked so hard to obtain to be employed in a practice I really don't find to be enjoyable?"

[LoneHaranguer]

I think it would have made more sense if Jimmy had found Marco in a bloody heap, because that's much more likely for a guy hanging out in a dark alley after conning a montage full of people than a surprisingly well-timed heart attack.

 

I don't see how anyone would fall for the coin scam. I could see how someone might not know which way the face should be pointing, but there's no plausibility. A mint worker doesn't like the design, so he makes up his own dies and slips them into production? Then there's somebody in the bar who happens to have one of the rare coins and would rather sell it for whatever a random stranger can cough up than to a coin dealer or pawn shop? Even if the mint story wasn't BS, you could count on the coin being counterfeit.

[Blakeston]

He didn't go from "I have to quit this life and go back to my clients" to "Screw this, I'm going to be a criminal". He went from "I have to go back to my clients" to "I'll pull the good 'ol Rolex scam with my buddy Marco one last time, before going back" to "Sh*t! My buddy Marco dropped dead after spending the past 10 years doing crap he didn't like doing, and I've been doing stuff for the last decade which I fundamantally didn't enjoy, because I was trying to please somebody else; do I really want the legal training Iworked so hard to obtain to be employed in a practice I really don't find to be enjoyable?"

 

So you're saying that what happened with Marco was all it took for him to go from wanting to help his clients to wanting to be a criminal? That was the point I was making.

[Bannon]

I think it would have made more sense if Jimmy had found Marco in a bloody heap, because that's much more likely for a guy hanging out in a dark alley after conning a montage full of people than a surprisingly well-timed heart attack.

 

I don't see how anyone would fall for the coin scam. I could see how someone might not know which way the face should be pointing, but there's no plausibility. A mint worker doesn't like the design, so he makes up his own dies and slips them into production? Then there's somebody in the bar who happens to have one of the rare coins and would rather sell it for whatever a random stranger can cough up than to a coin dealer or pawn shop? Even if the mint story wasn't BS, you could count on the coin being counterfeit.

Greed trumps reasonable suspicion with great frequency. That's what a lot of  cons depend on; the mark thinking he can get over on some doof, and thus make some easy money. Then the mark finds out HE was the doof.  

[Primetimer]

Jimmy's return to Chicago reminds him how much he loves making a dollar out of fifty cents.

Read the story

[Bannon]

So you're saying that what happened with Marco was all it took for him to go from wanting to help his clients to wanting to be a criminal? That was the point I was making.

Yes, finding out that what you have labored for, through drudgery, for 10 years, was never obtainable, and then watching an old friend die in front of you, after spending 10 years doing stuff he didn't want to do, might trigger abrupt changes. As I stated above, Jimmy is in deep grief with regard to the death of what he chose as the central element of his life for a decade, the pursuit of Chuck's esteem. He has discovered that it always pointless, and now he has watched an old friend  drop dead after stating he was doing stuff he didn't want to do for a decade. Jimmy's decided he wants to go use his legal training to do whatever he damn well pleases. 

 

If you don't find it believable that such experences might trigger extreme reactions, I guess we just see the world differently, or have had different experiences.

[lucindabelle]

Suppressed rage is what I think odenkirk was playing, definitely.

[Umbelina]

I think the Bingo scene was stellar (and uncomfortable) work.  The key, aside from all of the B's (for brother) was--"You never get out of this place alive."

How does Jimmy want to spend his life now?

 

I don't really think it's as "Slippin' Jimmy" but it's no longer chasing the unattainable dream of making Chuck love him, making Chuck be proud of him.  So he heads home and sees someone who DOES love him, who always has, someone he can also have fun with.  Most importantly though, someone who is wasting his life, in an unhappy job.

 

To me, it's not about choosing scamming over soul-killing corporations, it's about finding what is RIGHT for Jimmy.

 

He tried to please Chuck, and it was OK, but not him.

He tried to please Marco, and it was OK, but not really for him either.

 

Now he has to find his own way.  His best friend just died.  His relationship with his brother is dead and gone to.  Time to please himself, and to find out what works for him.

  

  I agree.  Jimmy ran a scam to get the Kettlemans, then used their money to help fund another scam which led to his hero scam.  When Chuck found out, he threw out that thing about elder law that Kim mentioned.  I do think Jimmy is a nice guy given his treatment of Kim and Chuck and the elderly.  But it doesn't mean he has been completely resisting Slippin' Jimmy all this time.

    I also think the point ketose brought up is true.  Jimmy is a good guy who is a criminal.  Chuck is a prick who does good things.  The perfect example is how that employee seemed so put upon while serving Chuck but smiled when he saw Jimmy sitting in his car.  Jimmy is Mr. Personality.  Chuck is the guy who gets his coworkers to do his dirty work for him and stabs his brother in the back.

 

 

    Even after blowing off Marco for years and not even seeing him the last time he was in town, Marco still welcomed Jimmy back with open arms just as he was.  Yet after years of scraping to get by and doing everything for his brother, he never won Chuck's approval.  He will never win Chuck's approval.

    Without Jimmy, Marco got sucked into some appropriate job when he was happiest running cons with Jimmy.  Jimmy was the one who suggested they start up again.  He also missed time with Marco out of loyalty to Chuck who wasn't loyal to him at all.

    Marco was right about lawyers making a good living.  Jimmy could've been making a killing if he wasn't bound to Chuck's code of conduct.  It's not like we wasn't apparently committing all kinds of crime before.  He owes nothing to Chuck anymore and isn't going to live that way anymore.  He still is a good guy, seeing as he checked on Chuck multiple times after what Chuck did.  He apologized to Kim.  He just isn't going to do things Chuck's way anymore and has to find out what that looks like.

    I'm not proud of knowing a person who has pulled off a Chicago Sunroof.

 

 

   I think all lawyers have to have a bit of con man in them. Most are not out there trying to make the world a better place, the difference between things being "legal" and "morally right" is very slim at times. Chuck may not defend criminals but corporate law is ten times the evil that any petty theft. They don't take on the Sandpiper case because they want to save the old people's life savings, only because there's a huge payoff at the end. (If Jimmy hadn't landed them the defending old people position, I can see HHM defending the Sandpiper company, either side they represent they make bank) Jimmy found easy money in elder law, he really could have ripped them off big time but chose not to. As a con man he was only ripping off people who thought they were getting a deal too good to be true. The rolex dudes gave up the cash in the wallet for the watch, the coin guy thought he was getting $800 for $110, Jimmy was scamming scammers. The guy in the bar wasn't going to miss a house payment because of $110.

 

 

At least know we know why he did it.  His "friend" not only owed him money, his "friend" was sleeping with his wife!  He had apparently recently found that out, and got drunk.  He happened to see the car, and drunkenly thought of a "Chicago Sun Roof" but didn't know the kids were in the car.  The "connected" friend got the charged raised to SEX OFFENDER!  I mean, the hell?  Malicious mischief, or destruction of property, or whatever drunk charges they had, but "sex offender?"  Frankly, considering the guy was banging his wife, that was a pretty mild, and, even understandable response.  He didn't go buy a gun, get his money back, and then shoot the guy.

   

I swear, I think this episode broke my heart more than last week's. Not just seeing Jimmy lose Marco, which was awful, but that moment where he stopped in the parking lot. I was screaming at my TV. "No! Just go! What are you doing?" That is the magic of Jimmy. Because I KNOW he turns into Saul. I know who he's going to become. But I'm so captivated by him that I take leave of my senses and actually think he can overcome everything.

    But I guess I was just expecting more from his transition. If it had happened right after Chuck broke his heart last week, I would have got it. But, while it was obvious that upset him greatly, it still didn't seem like it totally broke him. He seemed more hurt than bitter; he was still concerned about Chuck getting looked after properly. He just couldn't do it himself. And his messages were piling up while he was gone. He wanted to go back to his clients. And then the offer from the other firm. So what if someone pushed for it a bit? Wouldn't it have been a similar thing if Chuck had spoke up for him and tried to get him a job at HHM? Connections are everything. It just seemed like he had a lot to look forward to, and he chose to pass it right up.

    Clearly Marco dying had something to do with his change of heart. I just can't figure out exactly what. I just keep thinking back to Marco's last words - "This was the best week of my life". Maybe that made Jimmy realize he wanted to do something that HE wanted to do? That he truly enjoyed? I don't know, though. He seemed to really enjoy schmoozing all the old people. And I felt he was genuinely upset about the fraud perpetrated on the Sandpiper residents and wanted to help them. Maybe what Chuck said to him just took the confidence right out of him. But that doesn't seem right either. When he drove away, he didn't appear defeated.  I don't know. Maybe I need to watch a few more times, read some more posts - because it just wasn't clear to me what his motivation was for abandoning the meeting.

 

    The one thing that was finally settled - found out what a Chicago Sunroof is. Thanks for that.

 

As I said above, Marco died.

 

He died happy, after spending years in a soul-killing job.  The death of a very close friend or family member (in a way Chuck was dead to him too) can change the way you look at things.  At the very least, it can make you examine thing in your own life.  You only have so much time...what do you really want to do with that time?

That's why the scene with Mike talking about the money worked for me as well.  It really wasn't about the MONEY.  It was about the choices we (he) makes.  Jimmy asks "WHY did I do that?"  That's a good question, and goes to the core of all of the differences between Jimmy and both Marco and Chuck.  I think, Jimmy might have given the money back anyway, but maybe not.

 

He's finally examining WHY he does what he does.  Him.  Jimmy.  No one else.  Who is Jimmy once released from Chuck or Marco's expectations?  He's somewhere in between possibly, but what he doesn't want to be (anymore) is either of them, or anyone but himself.  The events of the past week or so have made him finally want to find out who he is, and what will make him happy.

 

???

 

Also, as far as the first scene of the season, and all we know about Saul?  That was the first scene, not the last, and I have serious hopes that Saul doesn't stay at Cinnabon by the time this series ends.

 

I don't think I loved this episode, but the more I think about it, the more it all does work for me.  We trudged through it, in a way, just like Jimmy trudged through his new world, it wasn't fun for him, or for us.  As someone else said, if it was a series ender, at least we would have known why Jimmy becomes Saul.

 

Uncle Benzene, yes.  Exactly.  I was typing this before I read yours, because I was afraid I'd lose the smoke-like thoughts that were forming for me.  Jimmy has stopped pleasing others, and is going to find what pleases Jimmy.   He doesn't want to end up in a rest home with regrets for living his life to please someone else.

 

ETA

One last thought.  Jimmy hasn't abandoned his rest home clients.  They are in excellent hands, two top law firms.  They are much better off for having met Jimmy, and yeah, they like, trust, and will miss him.  He doesn't have to please them anymore either.  Bingo is over.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Umbelina

[Blakeston]

Yes, finding out that what you have labored for, through drudgery, for 10 years, was never obtainable, and then watching an old friend die in front of you, after spending 10 years doing stuff he didn't want to do, might trigger abrupt changes. As I stated above, Jimmy is in deep grief with regard to the death of what he chose as the central element of his life for a decade, the pursuit of Chuck's esteem. He has discovered that it always pointless, and now he has watched an old friend  drop dead after stating he was doing stuff he didn't want to do for a decade. Jimmy's decided he wants to go use his legal training to do whatever he damn well pleases. 

 

If you don't find it believable that such experences might trigger extreme reactions, I guess we just see the world differently, or have had different experiences.

 

But like I said above, Jimmy finding out that his dream was unattainable (at least, the dream of working with Chuck) happened before he decided to go back to Albuquerque.

 

Jimmy knew that Chuck betrayed him and he still chose to go back to his clients toward the end of this episode. And then the stuff with Marco pushed him back toward wanting to be a criminal.

 

For me, the stuff with Marco, on its own, isn't a satisfying explanation for such a drastic change in his priorities. You don't have to agree with me.

[Bannon]

Suppressed rage is what I think odenkirk was playing, definitely.

Oh, absolutely, and grief very frequently has a pronounced rage component. My feel is that he is about 40 years old in the current BCS world, has found out that 25% of his life has been spent in pursuit of something which he could never obtain, under any circumstances, and that his entire view of his relationship with the most important person in his life has been a complete sham. He is consumed with grief in the same manner that a wife is when she finds out that her husband of 20 years has kept a secret family in another town for most of their marriage. Any person in that situation, much less a person with a history of grifting like Jimmy, is capable of nearly anything., 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Bannon

[Bannon]

But like I said above, Jimmy finding out that his dream was unattainable (at least, the dream of working with Chuck) happened before he decided to go back to Albuquerque.

 

Jimmy knew that Chuck betrayed him and he still chose to go back to his clients toward the end of this episode. And then the stuff with Marco pushed him back toward wanting to be a criminal.

 

For me, the stuff with Marco, on its own, isn't a satisfying explanation for such a drastic change in his priorities. You don't have to agree with me.

Yeah, in my experience, people who are going through extreme emotional distress often don't go through a logical chronological progession of emotions/thinking/plans.  For example,  I know someone who lost two spouses in a short period of time, in sudden fashion, and the way that person went back and forth, and back and forth again, between future, life changing, plans, in a nearly random fashion, was quite striking. We just see people differently. 

[Constantinople]

But like I said above, Jimmy finding out that his dream was unattainable (at least, the dream of working with Chuck) happened before he decided to go back to Albuquerque.

 

Jimmy knew that Chuck betrayed him and he still chose to go back to his clients toward the end of this episode. And then the stuff with Marco pushed him back toward wanting to be a criminal.

 

For me, the stuff with Marco, on its own, isn't a satisfying explanation for such a drastic change in his priorities. You don't have to agree with me.

I agree.

I think it would have made more sense if Jimmy had taken the job at the other firm, only to be fired later after some spectacular screw-up.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

The "connected" friend got the charged raised to SEX OFFENDER!  I mean, the hell?  Malicious mischief, or destruction of property, or whatever drunk charges they had, but "sex offender?"

IMU exposing yourself to someone can be classified that way under current law. I don't think that would have been true back when Jimmy did it.

 

 

Greed trumps reasonable suspicion with great frequency. That's what a lot of  cons depend on; the mark thinking he can get over on some doof, and thus make some easy money. Then the mark finds out HE was the doof.

True, and I can totally see the Rolex con working, but the bar is pretty high for the coin. Claiming that the head of the coin is upside down from what it's supposed to be would probably be an easier sale.

[Umbelina]

After finally typing all of that out I realize I actually loved that episode, and last night I did not.

 

To put it more succinctly, Jimmy is finally shaking off the shackles of pleasing other people, and off to find out what pleases him.  Dali Lama's got nothing on him.  It all fits together beautifully really.

[monakane]

Last night's episode was disappointing.  The Cicero stuff went on too long.  I do think that it was meant as a series finale.  It was the moment when Jimmy become Saul.  I suspect it was written that way in the event BCS was not renewed.

 

I loved the show enough that one mediocre episode won't stop me from watching when it returns.

[teddysmom]

And Krazy 8 is delivering Dr Pepper.

 

I saw that last week and thought hey wait a minute I recognize him!!!   

[Starchild]

I have serious hopes that Saul doesn't stay at Cinnabon by the time this series ends.

Now that Walt is dead and Jesse has likely disappeared for good, what charges might be waiting for Saul? When he finds out those two are gone, might he resurface without fear of pursuit by the authorities?