S03.E05: The Deal

[radishcake]

Norma turns to Romero for guidance when she finds herself in an unexpected position of power.

 

[editorgrrl]

Bob Paris (he'll always be Ted Chaough to me) talked as if he and Alex Romero grew up together and Bob felt sorry for Alex because of his crappy home life.

And Alex's opposition in the sheriff election told him he should lighten up & try smiling sometime.

[Primetimer]

Norma's brief – and possibly illusory -- victory over Bob Paris and her budding romance with her psych professor lift her up; her sons' relationship with Caleb brings her down.

Read the story

[Timetoread]

Will somebody please give Vera the freakin Emmy she deserves and stop dicking around! If they give it to somebody else, I swear to God I'll pull a Kanye and take that statue right out that bitch's hand.

Tonight. Nothin but love! I'll come back later when I'm coherent.

[Garnett7]

The look on Romero's face when Norma was giving Bob her list of demands was priceless. He was like, "Who is this crazy lady and why am I so hot for her?".

 

Making MOTHER the Wi-Fi password was just super creepy. Guess we know who set that up.

[tennisgurl]

 

Will somebody please give Vera the freakin Emmy she deserves and stop dicking around! If they give it to somebody else, I swear to God I'll pull a Kanye and take that statue right out that bitch's hand.

"Robin, Imma let you finish, but Vera had one of the best seasons of all time!" 

[ganesh]

I loved how the wifi password reveal was sort of in the background. Didn't phase Emma at all. 

 

The scene in the club with Norma, Romero, and Bob was priceless. Seriously though, even if Bob was willing to deal, and I think he would have paid her off, it's absurd to think that he'd agree to never getting the files back. 

 

So much high comedy here. Even the thug that ran Norma off the road. "Seriously? Do you think we're idiots?"

 

I actually thought at the end Norman was going to say that Norma shouldn't know about Caleb. For all his "I'm a man now" he wasn't really at the end. 

 

Was the ending from the kitchen to when Norma left the house all in one take? It looked like it. 

[thuganomics85]

I was surprised Nestor Carbonell directed this episode, and Romero was actually featured in it quite a bit.  Usually when an actor directs, his screen time is cut back on, but I guess he was up for handling both of it.  I thought he did a good job.  Has he directed before?

 

It was one of those times where I wish I didn't any in previews, because I knew going in that Norma was going to run off at some point. Still, that ending was brutal to watch.  I felt bad for all three characters, but I still feel for Norma more.  I get that, for Dylan, Caleb is his dad and that is a hard bond to break, but he is Norma's rapist, and that's just something that I don't think can ever be forgiven.  And, I actually think Norman might have accidentally made it worse.  He might have been better off just staying away. Either way, I have no idea what is going to happen now.

 

Loved the Norman/Dylan scene.  It is so sad: I think when he is around Dylan like this, Norman really does want to be more normal and better himself.  But then he just keep regressing.  I just find the relationship so great, but sad to watch, because I feel like when he's with Dylan, we see a Norman that might have had a chance.

 

They still found some good humor here though.  Norma/Romero are the best, and the "negotiating" scene with Bob (I'll try and start calling him that instead of Mad Men's Ted), was hilarious!  Oh, Norma.  And, I think the stuff with Chick/Ryan Hurst, might have been the most I enjoyed watching Caleb.  Especially loved the part when he asked him if he wanted to "hug it out."  He somehow sounded both sarcastic and a bit sincere, at the same time.  But I don't see anything good coming out of them working together, if it comes to that.

 

I kind of love that it was Gunner of all people that figured out how to decrypt the flashdrive.

 

Not much Emma, but I do kind of like the episodes where all of her scenes are just watching the craziness that is the Bates family.  If the poor girl survives this, she would have amazing stories to tell.

 

Great episode.

[Irritable]

I thought I was on the verge of figuring something out because I decided that Chick and Norma's new teacher friend were played by the same actor, and were going to turn out to be brothers, possibly twins, who were on some kind of mission to infiltrate themselves into Norma and Caleb's lives for a mysterious reason that would be revealed later.  But they are not played by the same guy, and I just need to calm the hell down because there is already enough creepy, mysterious stuff going on this season.

[Kristen]

Some of the lines in this episode were so great. Norma's, "What's wrong with these criminals that they can't hold on to their own shit?" and that other guy's "Wanna hug it out?" line to Caleb had me cackling. And the WiFi password. Ah, jeez. I wanna high-five the writer of this ep.

[methodwriter85]

We are so close to seeing Norman dress up as Norma, I can taste it.

[Bec]

I know, I can taste it, too! Not sure why Norman stole Norma's dress other than to set up Norman missing mother sooo much next week he puts the dress on and becomes mother, freaking out Dylan in the process. (Pure speculation.)

 

They totally got me with the fake-out in the beginning. I totally thought Norman told Norma everything offscreen, and I was like "Grr! Why did they do it offscreen? I wanted to see Norma's reaction!" Then of course it turned out Norman never told Norma, he told "mother".

 

And when they finally really tell Norma about Caleb I was like "patented Norma freakout in 3, 2, 1..." And then I had to count down again because this time it took longer than the count of three for Norma to get in freakout mode.

 

I know Norman has multiple personality disorder and all, but this was a total 180 from how he was last week (and I don't think he was supposed to be blacking out for all of last week's episode).

 

Not that I'm complaining. I like this week's Norman much better. All supportive of his brother, so sweet! I love the return of the brotherly love. The Norman who acts like Norma's jealous boyfriend just magically disappeared! Emma talking sense into him clearly helped, but damn, is she working some powerful mojo or what to turn him around by this much with one talk? I did like the look of realization Norman got when Emma pointed out we all whitewash our parents because we need to. It's like in that moment he realized he's not the only one who feels attached to his parents despite how awful they can be, he can relate to his brother!

 

I know he was still all "Mother! She can't leave me!" towards the end, which is really weird if we're talking about a typical 18 year old, but it's not that crazy by Norman standards. (Low bar, I know. Hee.)

 

I think the boys went a bridge too far trying to get Norma to talk to Caleb. Dylan should have only gone as far as telling her he let Caleb stay in his cabin because he didn't know what else to do. Let her process that much info first. She would still have freaked, but maybe she would have freaked less.

 

And it probably made it worse that the boys were a united front. It made Norma feel ambushed and ganged-up on. I'm totally Monday-morning quarterbacking, but in hindsight it might have worked out better if Dylan talked to her one-on-one and then after she gets her mandatory freakout on and Dylan leaves to give her some space, Norman can backup Dylan by playing peacemaker.

 

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

 

I like the way this worked out in the end, though. I've been hoping for Norman and Dylan to get some more time alone together ever since their motorcycle ride in season 1. But I hope when Norman inevitably goes into another "mother" blackout, he doesn't kill Dylan. Don't die, Dylan!

 

Anyway, sure wasn't expecting Gunner to be a l33t hacker. Seriously, downloading movies off the internets gives you the powers to break high-end encryption? What, did he steal movies straight from the movie studios' computers? Ooh, or maybe the hacking skills comes from the hat. Last week the Asian kid was wearing the hat, this week Gunner is wearing the hat.

 

What's up with Bob thinking getting the flashdrive back will mean his troubles would be over? Hasn't he heard of making digital copies and backing files up in the cloud? Norma should have given him the original flash drive back, plus a copy to prove she has the capability to copy it, and then be like "by the way, I've set it up so that more copies will be sent out to every alphabet-soup agency in the country if anything happens to me and mine."

 

If those people who set up emails in case the rapture comes can set up the kind of system that sends out messages and files if they stop logging in (because they're ostensibly no longer on this earth), I'm sure Norma can set up something like that too, with a little help from Gunner and his hacker hat.

 

Caleb continued to be a dreary and annoying crybaby, but at least Chick was amusing with his offers of jerky and hugs.

[Timetoread]

I am going to make a confession.  I connect with Norma's character because I am a lot like her.  I am thankfully not as damaged and I tend to stay clear of real danger for the most part, BUT I am a bit quirky and dramatic and prone to tantrums.  So I absolutely cracked up at her meltdowns last night.  My favorite was her scene with Romero.  I thought that she was magnificent in communicating to him that she was tired of being the victim and that she was a force to be reckoned with.  I was like "Yes!  Now storm out with authority leaving him in a cloud of awe and wonder."  Which she would have done until "D'oh!", she couldn't get the freakin door to open.  I howled because that is often how my fantastic exits end up.  Yeah I totally get Norma.  People tend to think that if you are a bit nutty that you are stupid and that your feelings aren't valid.  I loved that she pointed out to him that she has been the victim of REAL, horrific crime.  Not small stuff, not stuff that is forgotten - rape, murder, threats of murder, and the kidnapping of her child - and those are just the ones Romero knows about.  She has earned her anger, fear, and paranoia. 

 

I also had another, controversial thought about Norma.  For all her faults, she is not the worst mother ever.  Dylan is a hell of a man, he really is and Norman impressed me as well.  We make Norma take the blame for everything bad so I think it's only fair that she get the credit for what is right.  Both her boys are smart, respectful, caring, and are stand up men.  Norman is crazy because he was born that way - she may have done many things wrong but the fact that he blacks out and commits violence isn't a learned or environmental behavior.  People wonder about what Norman could have been if Norma hadn't damaged him.  But I think about what kind of mother SHE could have been if her parents and brother hadn't damaged HER.

. 

In other news, I'm confused about the Norma/Caleb thing.  In that picture, they looked about the same age  - almost like twins.  I'm ready to hear this story and what actually went down.

[ganesh]

I didn't know Carbonell directed. That's even more awesome because Romero was so great in this episode. I assume he likes playing him as so put upon. 

[Spartan Girl]

As my friend put it: Mother of the Year, as always, Norma...

 

Loved the Norman/Dylan scene.  It is so sad: I think when he is around Dylan like this, Norman really does want to be more normal and better himself.  But then he just keep regressing.  I just find the relationship so great, but sad to watch, because I feel like when he's with Dylan, we see a Norman that might have had a chance.

 

THIS.  Norman's lucid moments are increasingly poignant in their scarcity these days.  We all know he's too far gone, but when he's briefly normal again, we remember that he isn't really evil, just a messed-up kid.  And every time he tries to recognize the problem and get better (or at least try to grow up and be independent), Norma throws an epic tantrum that makes him feel guilty and sends him deeper over the edge.  And that last scene was a perfect example.

 

People wonder about what Norman could have been if Norma hadn't damaged him.  But I think about what kind of mother SHE could have been if her parents and brother hadn't damaged HER.

 

 

True.  Maybe she does genuinely want to help Norman, but the problem is that to actually help him would mean for her to grow up and face her own mental issues, but she's so deep in denial about herself that it's never going to happen.

 

Count me in line to the group that thinks Norman is very close to dressing up as Norma.  I bet he starts doing it the next episode to start coping with her absence.  That scene of him sniffing and cuddling the dress put brought the show to a new level of creepy.

[Timetoread]

It might come sooner than you think since she is about to start dating a shrink.  Clarity will come too late, however, since Norman is going to kill her.

[maczero]

In other news, I'm confused about the Norma/Caleb thing.  In that picture, they looked about the same age  - almost like twins.  I'm ready to hear this story and what actually went down.

I was thinking the same thing.  I can't imagine there was more than a year's age difference.  

 

I'm inclined to believe Caleb more after seeing that picture.  I imagined that Caleb was a few years older and manipulated a naive young Norma into having sex with him.  Now, I'm not so sure.

[Chaos Theory]

I was thinking the same thing. I can't imagine there was more than a year's age difference.

I'm inclined to believe Caleb more after seeing that picture. I imagined that Caleb was a few years older and manipulated a naive young Norma into having sex with him. Now, I'm not so sure.

It's possible both stories are true. An abusive, unloving home and they clung to each other. One day Norma wants to end it and cuts Caleb off completely. We have seen her try to do "the right thing" with Norman and have it feel like she was running hot and coldwith him at times. It could have been the same with Caleb. One day she's having sex with her brother and the next she doesn't want to see him anymore. Losing his lover, his best friend and his sister and being still mostly a kid himself he reacts badly and possibly forces the issue. Both stories could be true and I think both of them are. Edited April 7, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[maczero]

It's possible both stories are true. An abusive, unloving home and they clung to each other. One day Norma wants to end it and cuts Caleb off completely. We have seen her try to do "the right thing" with Norman and have it feel like she was running hot and coldwith him at times. It could have been the same with Caleb. One day she's having sex with her brother and the next she doesn't want to see him anymore. Losing his lover, his best friend and his sister and being still mostly a kid himself he reacts badly and possibly forces the issue. Both stories could be true and I think both of them are.

It's not like I don't believe Norma.  She was raped by her brother.  Caleb even alludes to this.  It's just from Norma's pov, the story starts and stops with him raping her.  Caleb adds a few details to the story that seem plausible and he still doesn't try to make himself look like the good guy.

 

Oh and I gotta say Dylan deserves a smack upside the head.  He should've known no good would come from telling Norma about Caleb.

 

Any speculations on what Norma plans to do next?  Kill Caleb?  Run into the therapist's arms?  Drive around and eventually realize she achieved a victory over the town's elite and powerful and she shouldn't waste it?

[Guest]

We too were rolling laughing about Norma's final tantrum but more in a WTH way.  

 

So what is Bob going to do?  Try to kill someone close to her to warn her she can't fuck with him?  I hope it's the psych prof.  Though he was probably written in as a romantic interest for Norma, so we can watch Norman hate him.  

[JenE4]

I wish I had written this quote down last night while it was still fresh in my mind. Paraphrasing Chick: "Life is shit for everyone! There's only one thing that can make it better [dramatic pause] boar jerky." That character is creepy and scary and profound and hilarious all at once.

Interesting that Nestor directed. Did anyone else notice the awkward fade to black when Romero was holding Norma after her door freakout? To me it seemed like there was more to the scene (a kiss perhaps??) that was cut out of the film.

So last week I was saying how Norma plays the victim while creating her circumstances. I have mixed feelings about that stance after this episode. Yes, she's ratcheting up the drama with this "deal" and also going down a nebulous path by confirming that she'll seek therapy from someone with a mutual inclination to break doctor-patient propriety. But then they had her launch into a speech reminding us of all of the ways that she HAS been victimized in this town. And not only that but she's going to finally get everything she could ever dream of for the hotel, and she leaves it--and Norman!--as soon as she hears Caleb is in town. I mean, likely she'll be back in an episode or 2 and this was just patented Norma freakout. But I now i believe that she is TRULY scared of Caleb.

[Bec]

Norma is not really asking for that much considering the town's rich people probably make millions a year each in ill-gotten gains. An exit, a billboard, a pool? Drops in the bucket! But still, if they think murder and coercion will work, they'd probably rather do that and not give in to any demands at all.

 

I'm surprised she didn't ask for a lump sum so that she can get out of this town and move to Hawaii.

 

Eventually the town's rich people will be brought down and the town will be destroyed, right? Because in Psycho, there is no White Pine Bay, there is only Fairvale further away down the highway. The Bates Motel would be one of last bits left of White Pine Bay. (I'm guessing.)

 

So Bob Paris might not actually triumph in the end. But his downfall wouldn't do Norma any good because she still won't get her billboard, her exit, and her pool.

 

About Caleb, I'm surprised by how there seems to be very little age difference in that photo of him and Norma as children, too. Was that an attempt to make him more sympathetic? And is that really necessary? The only reason Caleb needs to be sort of sympathetic-ish is to create conflict. Because it would be way too easy for Dylan to turn his back on him if he has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and then there would be no incest family drama. Can't have that! So I get why Dylan can't help but care about Caleb, and I'm enjoying the drama the situation creates. I just don't know why the show seems to keep asking the audience to care about Caleb. I'm like, ugh, do we have to? Blech, it's like when the show used to try to make us care about Bradley. We're just not going to care that much about some characters, show! Give it up!

[truthaboutluv]

I'm glad Norma told Romero about the flash drive because I was getting very annoyed by her actions and getting very annoyed with the storyline. When she was babbling on to Dylan about having leverage and their not doing anything to her and this could be what she needs to fix things, I just thought she sounded delusional. And I don't for one second think this "deal" with Bob is going to be so simple. A man that arrogant who had no problems having two women murdered as well as murdering the guy who did the murders to shut him up, is not going to react so happily and calmly to some woman essentially threatening him. I imagine this will get a lot uglier this season. 

 

I don't care about Caleb and as the poster above noted, I hope the writers aren't trying to make me care about him. I get that him around creates conflict so I can accept that but I sure didn't care about his "pain" while he was hacking the tree and was barely paying attention to his conversation with that guy, whatever his name is. All I got is that the guy offered him a job as his pot driver but I can't tell if that would mean Caleb would leave because it's something he would have to drive all over doing or if it was a job strictly based in the town. I of course hope it's the former. 

 

While we all know Norman eventually gets to the part of crazy town where he dresses like and full on becomes "Mother", I felt like I was missing a significant scene to explain that weird moment with the dress. Freddie played it off well as he usually does but it just seemed to come out of nowhere. Like it's a scene that would have fit in next week's episode with Norma gone. I mean Norma tells him he blacked out and he was wrong about talking to and seeing her in a blue dress and he says okay, then goes upstairs to get that dress and creepily caress and inhale it? Okay then. 

 

I get that Dylan feels connected to Caleb because he's his father but neither Dylan or Norman are complete idiots so I don't know how they didn't realize this would end badly. No amount of sorry or apologies will erase what Caleb did to Norma. This is a man she has had zero interaction with for decades, ever since she married and left home at like 18. Why they think she will just be, "oh, okay, he wants to say sorry", I have no idea. As the poster above noted, Dylan's admitting Caleb was in town would have been bad enough so he should have just stopped there for the time being.

 

It was the "he's sorry, he just wants to apologize" and then Norman throwing in the "he's his dad" because sure, remind Norma of that fact - that is, he's Dylan's dad because Caleb was sexually abusing her. Because that makes it better. I actually thought that moment was so brilliantly played by Vera and Freddie. Seriously, watch it again to see how Norma so subtly stares daggers while still sitting calmly, when Norman says this.

 

Honestly even I was terrified a little for him at that point and then you see him ever so subtly cringe back because he sees the rage in her eyes when he says that. Brilliant scene. I have to say I didn't see Norma taking off. I thought for sure she'd throw Dylan out but again, I guess she feels betrayed by them both so she's saying screw it and abandoning them. I wonder where she'll go. My guess, Romero, which should be interesting seeing as Norma annoys and fascinates him on equal measure. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[seacliffsal]

So, while watching this episode I had a different interpretation of its implications.  I think that maybe Norman doesn't kill his mother after all.  I think that Bob and his cohorts kill her in response to her demands and trying to play with 'the big boys'.  Then when Norman finds her body it's the tipping point for him into his insanity; recreating Norma through both the taxidermy and his assumption of her personality.  Just a thought....

[Guest]

About Caleb, I'm surprised by how there seems to be very little age difference in that photo of him and Norma as children, too. Was that an attempt to make him more sympathetic? And is that really necessary? The only reason Caleb needs to be sort of sympathetic-ish is to create conflict. Because it would be way too easy for Dylan to turn his back on him if he has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and then there would be no incest family drama. Can't have that! So I get why Dylan can't help but care about Caleb, and I'm enjoying the drama the situation creates. I just don't know why the show seems to keep asking the audience to care about Caleb. I'm like, ugh, do we have to? Blech, it's like when the show used to try to make us care about Bradley. We're just not going to care that much about some characters, show! Give it up!

I'm wondering now if part of Norma's over the top reaction to the Caleb news is she doesn't want her sons speaking to Caleb, because he might tell them what really happened back then.

[truthaboutluv]

Caleb's already told Dylan what happened though. I think Norma's reaction was pretty patented Norma batshit crazy coupled with her clearly feeling very betrayed by both Dylan and Norman. I think in her mind she saw that conversation as them siding with Caleb against her and as crazy as Norma is, considering her history with Caleb, I understand her reaction. To think someone violated her in that way and her sons are taking his side, that's a pretty harsh pill to swallow.

[Chaos Theory]

I love Caleb and I find the relationship between Caleb, Dylan, Norma and Norman fascinating. Then again I have a thing for dysfunctional family units. Having Caleb be Dylan's father and having him not be a mustache twirling villain is clever. We know who Norma is and we know she is batshit crazy and having Caleb around brings some point of reference to the crazy. I don't really care who is telling the truth; like I said above I think they both are.

As to Norma hightailing it. That is a classic Norma freakout. Don't know how far she will get or where she is going but that really isn't the point. I think the point is to cause Norman more mental harm by not having Norma around. He will find comfort in "mother" which will freak Dylan out.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[ganesh]

That's the thing. Bob would probably have paid a decent chunk for the drive and Norma just to go away. But with all these demands, and having her still around town with the drive on her, or wherever? There's no way they're going to let that sit. 

[Fable]

I think this was my favorite episode ever.  Norma, in every scene, was perfect.   I loved her with the sheriff and with Bob Paris…she really believes in herself!  I really felt for her in that last scene with Dylan and Norman.  She sat there like she was trying to make sense of it all until she realized it was too much for her. 

 

I love all the characters really, at least the main ones, but Norma just has a special place in my heart.  No matter what comes at her, she continues to soldier through.  I don't always agree with the choices she makes, but I do think she believes in her choices, and that alone kind of makes me want to give her a hug!

Edited April 8, 2015 by Fable

[Avaleigh]

I thought this episode was great. Vera is so good in this role and I love how much humor there is in this show even thoughit's dark. The look on Norma's face when she saw those three cows? Lol.

There's something about the character of Norma where it seems like she is forever dealing with some annoying bullshit. I know this was in the previous episode but when she got that parking ticket I thought that was a very nice little detail to show what life is typically like for Norma. I totally see her as the woman who goes to the grocery store and gets the shopping cart with the rickety wheel. She'll accidentally step in shit. She'll be carrying a bag and it'll break--that's how her life seems to be IMO.

There's obviously more to the story with Caleb or the writers wouldn't be postponing the confrontation between he and Norma this season.. JMO. I can't think of any other reason why they're continuing to focus on his supposed pain if there isn't more to the story than Norma's version of events. I rolled my eyes during the scene where he was chopping the tree because again the emphasis is on his sadness as opposed to him feeling horrible for how he's helped wreck Norma's life. I feel like it's all about him from his perspective.

All that being said I do think that we're going to find out that there's more to the story than what Norma told Norman. I think some part of her is embarrassed at her own behavior and unfortunately probably blames herself on some level for what happened between them even though it obviously wasn't her fault.

When Norma saw her sons sitting at the table looking all serious and she said something about how at least nobody is in the hospital I immediately thought of Emma and wondered why she didn't.

I thought the most frightening thing about Norma's freakout was the way she didn't say anything for so long. It was almost like *she* was in a blackout rage.

Norma packing Chekov's gun in her suitcase? I'm calling it now that Caleb will die by that gun. Not sure yet who will pull the trigger.

[Bec]

Off the top of my head, "poor widdle rapist" has been done on Switched at Birth, Breaking Bad, Gossip Girl, Buffy, Veronica Mars, I'm sure many more that are just slipping my mind at the moment. It's practically a TV trope, so, eh, not that clever. I'm getting pretty tired of it. I don't need these characters to twirl mustaches, wear black hats, or tie people to railway tracks, but please spare me when it comes to plotlines dealing with the poor widdle rapists' poor widdle hurt feelings. I just don't have a lot of shits left to give about their dickhead pain.

 

I was so happy when there was a moment of "Gee whiz, it actually makes perfect sense she doesn't wanna talk to you! You reap what you sow, so get over it, you big dumb lunk!" last episode. Sadly that moment was short lived.

 

Like someone else said, Norma is possibly the most shat on person on this show, and she still manages to soldier on and give us levity (so much levity!), instead of being all annoyingly woe-is-me all the time. (She does have her woe-is-me moments, but at least she more than earn them!)

 

I think that maybe Norman doesn't kill his mother after all.  I think that Bob and his cohorts kill her in response to her demands and trying to play with 'the big boys'.

Yeah, I can see it! It would even still fit what happens in the movie since it's not like it showed how Norma died. Only that she is dead and we are supposed to think Norman killed her just because who else could it have been?

[Avaleigh]

I definitely, definitely, definitely think that Norman will kill Norma.

Has anyone here seen the movie Chinatown in addition to reading how the EP originally wanted it to end? Basically Robert Evans wanted the Faye Dunaway character to live, for Noah Cross to be killed (Cross is the rapist crook villain of the story), and for the Jack Nicholson character and Faye character to end up together. Roman Polanski OTOH was adamant that the Faye ccharacter needed to die in order for the movie to be special or have any deeper sort of meaning.

I feel like the same thing essentially applies to the story of Bates Motel.

ETA: Gah, accidentally posted before I was finished.

This entire thing is a build up to Norman finally cracking and committing the ultimate sin of killing a family member. I feel like so much would be taken away if it turned out to be the evil town drug lords who did Norma in.

I haven't seen Psycho in years but there's an entire speech that a doctor or somebody makes about how Norman wanted to keep Norma alive because of the fact that he committed matricide.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Avaleigh

[queenanne]

It was the "he's sorry, he just wants to apologize" and then Norman throwing in the "he's his dad" because sure, remind Norma of that fact - that is, he's Dylan's dad because Caleb was sexually abusing her. Because that makes it better. I actually thought that moment was so brilliantly played by Vera and Freddie. Seriously, watch it again to see how Norma so subtly stares daggers while still sitting calmly, when Norman says this.

 

 

I thought that potentially said a lot though about Norman, precisely because Norman has no father either.  Maybe despite the badness of the one he had, part of him would take any father he got at this point.  Maybe part of Norman recognizes the truth in Norma's "Dylan is A Grown Man; and thus, knows what it is appropriate for Grown Men to Do (with their mothers), something which we both lack".

[BatmanBeatles]

 

I haven't seen Psycho in years but there's an entire speech that a doctor or somebody makes about how Norman wanted to keep Norma alive because of the fact that he committed matricide.

Yes, because he felt guilty and that's how his mind split into Norman and Mother.

[Bec]

If they really wanted to go a different way, they can pretend what that doctor said at the end of Psycho is just a theory. Though it is true enough that, the story would hold together better and be more poignant to have Norman be the one to kill Norma. Anything else might feel too random.

[tennisgurl]

I swear, the look on Romaro`s face when Norma was making all her demands (don't forget the pool!) was enough to make this one of my favorite episodes, but the rest was awesome as well.

 

Poor Norma. She finally gets a win, and then this. I cant decide how to feel about Caleb. On the one hand, I think he does genuinely feel guilty about what happened with Norma, and he does want to connect with Dylan. On the other hand...he`s still a rapist. Who raped and impregnated his little sister. That`s pretty damn unforgivable. And, honestly, he is better as a plot device than as an actual character. Plus, I never really like the "its your mom/dad" thing as an excuse as to why you put up with awful parents. Yeah, there is a blood bond there, but Dylan hardly knows this guy. I can tell he wants a family, and wants a connection, but with things going well with Norma, he should have just sent Caleb packing.

 

Of course the wi-fi password is MOTHER. Of course it is.  

 

The acting is just so good on this show! The big final scene in the kitchen was brilliantly acted by everyone. Plus, I loved the scene before that with Norman and Dylan. Before his mother meltdown, Norman actually was acting mature, recognizing that what he did was selfish, and trying to be a good brother. Didn't end well, but he tried. 

 

Just so much good in one episode, I could just go on, but I just want to say how much I love the score. It channels the movies score, without just copying it directly. 

[molshoop]

 

I definitely, definitely, definitely think that Norman will kill Norma.

 

  If that happens, I want it to be in the last episode of the last season.  I just can't imagine this show

without Vera Farmiga.

[queenanne]

Bob Paris (he'll always be Ted Chaough to me) talked as if he and Alex Romero grew up together and Bob felt sorry for Alex because of his crappy home life.

 

I think that's totally the implication (can't make the speech work in my head otherwise unless Bob was speaking about himself, and even that interpretation's tortured), but that's an interesting choice for fleshing things out, because it could explain very well why we haven't seen any ladies hanging out for Romero  - he doesn't think he's good enough.  (I've actually been wondering about this for a bit, because even in a town the size of White Pine Bay, and a show where they have to control the cast, I'd expect some woman on the horizon or in the past, not no woman, and not for Romero to just be hanging around spare waiting for Norma to pick up.)

 

Also forgot to mention in my earlier post, how brilliant a storytelling choice I thought it was to write around describing the Head!Norma scene, as opposed to showing us in lavish flashbacky detail.

Edited April 8, 2015 by queenanne

[editorgrrl]

I thought that potentially said a lot though about Norman, precisely because Norman has no father either. Maybe despite the badness of the one he had, part of him would take any father he got at this point.

If Norman wants a father figure, he won't choose a cop or a shrink—so that leaves Caleb.

[Avaleigh]

If that happens, I want it to be in the last episode of the last season.  I just can't imagine this show

without Vera Farmiga.

I first posted this over at TWoP but my guess is that Norman will kill Norma and then we'll get some episodes where Norma appears as she does in the visions that Norman has of her.

I think it's safe to say that Vera will be with the series until it ends even if/when her character is killed.

[amensisterfriend]

I'm totally with those who loved that MOTHER was the password. This may be the most darkly amusing show I've ever seen. 

 

I hate the Psych professor, and not in a love-to-hate way. I just don't want him on my screen and certainly not as a 'love interest' for Norma. 

[BatmanBeatles]

 

I hate the Psych professor, and not in a love-to-hate way. I just don't want him on my screen and certainly not as a 'love interest' for Norma.

The shape of his head distracts me.

[ganesh]

Norman has to kill Norma. The show is built on this premise. 

 

I thought this episode was great. Vera is so good in this role and I love how much humor there is in this show even thoughit's dark.

 

This is what a lot of shows miss. As good as Mad Men, Game of Thrones is, sometimes they get to full of themselves and think they're Making A Show. That's why you need Roger to rip off a zinger here and there and why everyone loves Dinklage. Breaking Bad did this pretty well, but the other shows sometimes can be overly much. Even Walking Dead, I'm like, 'get over yourself for 5 minutes.'

 

To wit, Romero has been essential to this show. 

[designing1]

 

I hate the Psych professor, and not in a love-to-hate way. I just don't want him on my screen and certainly not as a 'love interest' for Norma.

 

The shape of his head distracts me.

 

 

He has a certain Muppet-like quality. As much as I like Muppets, I'd be concentrating all my efforts on the smokin' hot sheriff.

Edited April 8, 2015 by designing1

[Avaleigh]

Does anyone else think that this psych professor is somehow involved with the Arcanum Club or Bob or something to do with that part of the story?

 

For me it's the way he seems to always show up randomly. He catches her in the library or whatever when she's looking up something about computers--to me it seemed like he was trying to feel out what it was that she was really looking for. He tells her that she's all mysterious and everything and I'm thinking that applies to him as well. He just happens to see her in this ep while she's walking down the street? To me it was almost like he'd been following her and was looking for an opportunity. He also seems suspicious in general. If he's only teaching part time at a community college how is he paying all of his bills? I just get the vibe that there's more to this guy than meets the eye.

 

That being said, the main thing that I can't get square with this theory is how he could have controlled Norma going into the wrong class. I considered that he was just waiting to see what class she'd go into but that only works if he's posing as a student which of course he isn't. 

 

I totally agree that it makes no sense that she'd even look at this guy when she seems to have a chance with Romero. 

 

One thing that I don't think has been commented on much is what Emma's role is going to be in the Caleb storyline. I feel like there's a reason why she's in the loop about what's going on. I really liked it when she asked Norman if he really "had" to tell Norma about Dylan helping out Caleb. Emma definitely calls Norman out when she feels like shit isn't right and I love that about her character. I also appreciate the sympathy that she has for Dylan. 

 

I can't believe we're already halfway through the season! I'm more into this show than Mad Men right now and certainly wouldn't have predicted that. I still remember hearing that they were going to do a show called Bates Motel and I remember thinking that it didn't sound like something I'd be interested in. I was curious though that both Vera and Freddie would want to sign on for a TV series and figured it had to be above average in order to capture their interest so I decided to watch the premiere of the first episode and I've been hooked ever since. 

[Guest]

Oh dang, I missed the Mad Men premiere AGAIN?!?

 

I don't think Bob will kill Norma for all the reasons above and also because I think Bob is a one-season arc and Norma (alive and awkward) is crucial to the show, at least until very near the end.  

[ganesh]

Yeah, someone is offing Bob. I'd bet now that it's Romero because Bob's been giving him so many problems lately. I'm doubtful that Romero can pin the murders on him but knows he did it. 

 

It's not like Romero is above straight up killing someone. I don't see him losing this election.

[Chaos Theory]

Norman has to kill Norma. The show is built on this premise.

 

 

There is a lot of areas the show can get around....this isn't one of them.  It is the basis of his final psychotic break.  

[opus]

Any speculations on what Norma plans to do next?  Kill Caleb?  Run into the therapist's arms?  Drive around and eventually realize she achieved a victory over the town's elite and powerful and she shouldn't waste it?

Wondering too. Just the gun? Kill Caleb. Gun, bag ,clothes, meds? No idea.

[BatmanBeatles]

How do we know she's victorious over Bob? It seems that he caved in rather quickly.