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smittykins

By smittykins
in Sports

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catlover79
catlover79

A's fans were still able to make their fury at the Astros known when the teams played in Oakland last night. They may not be physically allowed in the stadium, so they did the next best thing:

xaxat
xaxat

I read that Houck said he was "bummed" that he would missing a start. Hmmm, if only there was something he could have done to make sure he could play in every park. 

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baldryanr

baldryanr

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

I fully admit I am biased, but Shohei up for MVP puzzles me.

You don't have to agree with it, but why is it puzzling?  It's been clear for years there are two camps for MVP.

Camp 1 - MVP is the best player, period.  It's not his fault if the ownership fails to construct a good team around him - however much the Angels stunk, imagine how much worse they would have been if Ohtani had been replaced by some scrub. 

Camp 2 - If your team sucks then you should be automatically disqualified from the MVP conversation - go grab your Silver Slugger for putting up the stats, or a Cy Young.  Give me the most pivotal player on a great team, when there's actually pressure to perform well. 

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Carey

Carey

I'm in Camp 2 as well.  I'm not a big fan of it going to the team with the best record.  For example, you'll get that in the NBA (except recently); it happened in 2019 in the NFL (though in the latter it was valid enough).

The MVP has to mean something.  It should be in the case where a team would be worse off without the eventual winner or a candidate for it.  If a key player goes down, that team will not be a great but they have enough pieces to stay competitive (2017 NFL season in Philadelphia).

So I'll respect the first option, but it's the second one for me.  Though I don't think it should be the face of the team with the best record.  However, you have to actually be doing something.  There is always value in winning.  If you're an MVP candidate, the team needs to be trying to stay competitive with actual results to show for it

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DMK

DMK

5 hours ago, mojoween said:

I fully admit I am biased, but Shohei up for MVP puzzles me.

What’s the bias, there aren’t any Yankees that are finalists. 

I’m also in Camp 2, with an addendum that I feel like the MVP should also play all year. One or two minimal stints on the IL is fine but if they miss an entire month or more? Nope. Which is the case for Ohtani, and Seager too. I don’t think either of them should win because of that. 

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Jane Tuesday

Jane Tuesday

Camp #2 as well.  IMO, the MVP should go to the player who contributed the most competitive value to his team in the regular season.  If your team isn't competitive with you or without you, then your value was zero.

Shohei is amazing, and my devout hope for him is that he uses FA to go to an actual competitve team next year.  But I don't think anyone should be able to be the MVP on a losing team.  Considering how far the playoffs have been expanded, I'd say it should also be nearly impossible to win the MVP if your team didn't at least get a wildcard.

And this goes for Mike Trout as well.  I'm always told he's one of the best players of his generation, if not one of the best ever.  Okay?  What does he have to show for it?  And when he had a chance to leave, he stayed.  So.... whatever.

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shoregirl

shoregirl

I'll be the dissenter and say I'm more in camp 1. I can understand camp 2 and I totally get that stance and it would be nice if every MVP was on a playoff team but great players and great seasons sometimes go beyond what the rest of the team does . That's said I would be fine if Ohtani doesn't win. 

Curious if the same applies for the other awards? Rookie of the year this year doesn't matter because both the most likely winners are on playoff teams but the CY Young's and almost certainly going to Snell and Cole and neither of their teams were really in playoff contention for most of the season (I know the Padres went on a run late but they would have had to jump a bunch of teams). Steve Carlton won a CY Young by going 27-10 on a Phillies team that won 59 games in 1972. He was responsible for 46% of the teams wins that year. 

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Jane Tuesday

Jane Tuesday

1 hour ago, shoregirl said:

Curious if the same applies for the other awards?

For me, it doesn't apply.  The ROY is the best rookie, regardless.  But MVP has historically - across sports - been awarded to someone on a winning team.  When you think about the World Series MVP, for example, that always goes to someone on the winning side.  No matter if you hit .500 and drive in 15 RBI, if your team loses, you won't be the MVP.

There are other awards for the best player, or the best at their position.  But the MVP means something different and distinct, IMO.

I understand that it sucks to be a great player with a phenomenal season and be stuck on a losing team.  But, them's the breaks, I guess.

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ProudMary

ProudMary

Change the name of the award. Then when it's given to the standout player for that season, there's none of this, "That's not what the award is" argument. My bet is that the award would still go to a player on a contending team 80% or more of the time. Even with the injury, Ohtani was far and away the best player in the game, IMO. I think he deserves the award. 

@Lantern7I don't think any of us who are Yankees' fans can tell you much of anything about Carlos Mendoza. Yankees' coaches better follow the Brian Cashman playbook or they don't last. There doesn't seem to be any room for independent thought. I hope he does a great job for the Mets, although I think they should have kept Buck.

Which brings us to this. Here's the owner, Yankees' fans, with a State of the Team report. (Length: 10:40) I wanted to throw a shoe at the screen at least three times.

 

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shoregirl

shoregirl

Angels hire Ron Washington. On one hand he will have a big task in the post Othani Angels and possibly at some point post Trout if trout agrees to it (although as great as he is I have a hard thinking someone is going to take on that contract for a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy). On the other hand he can't do any worse than the last couple guys. 

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Perfect Xero

Perfect Xero

5 hours ago, shoregirl said:

Angels hire Ron Washington. On one hand he will have a big task in the post Othani Angels and possibly at some point post Trout if trout agrees to it (although as great as he is I have a hard thinking someone is going to take on that contract for a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy). On the other hand he can't do any worse than the last couple guys. 

Wash has been as beloved a figure as you'll find among Braves fans, will really miss his presence with the team.

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shoregirl

shoregirl

18 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Brian Cashman could not have said this to mean what it sounds like because holy hell.  What an asshole.

 

What the fuck....does he realize that he was on record?   Is he trying to get fired or does he think he can say whatever he wants and he won't be fired? That sounds like something that a fan would say not the GM of the team.

 

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ProudMary

ProudMary

Hal Steinbrenner needs to fire Cashman! I will die on this hill. 😄

Flashback to the 2017 ALDS vs Cleveland. Joe Girardi was already on thin ice as the Yankees' manager, but the final straw was Girardi not trusting then catcher, Gary Sanchez who was arguing an ump's bad call. Upper management at the time was all-in on Sanchez as the future of the Yankees, defense be damned. Overall, I felt differently, but I'm not the owner. Girardi NEEDED to have Sanchez's back especially as that bad call that Girardi didn't challenge, likely cost them the game. Refresher for anyone interested:  Joe Girardi takes the blame for missed ALDS challenge: “I screwed up”

Girardi was gone about 10 days later.

What Cashman has done here with Big G is even worse, IMO. This situation is going to trigger Judge, which may be motivating crap like this from Cashman anyway, because he's enormously pissed off that Hal sought input from Judge and would seem now to have an open door policy with his new Captain. Conversations like this should be private, not played out in the media. Not to mention that the people Cashman should be evaluating are the training and medical staff. I'm still angry that they never picked up on Rizzo's concussion! We still don't know how that situation will play out.

Fire Cashman, Hal! He's the root of the bulk of the Yankees' problems. After 25+ years, it's long past time for a new GM.

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ProudMary

ProudMary

Stanton, indeed, has a full no-trade clause and is signed through the 2027 season, with a club option for '28 or a $10 million buyout. He's virtually untradeable without his full consent. 

So, is Cashman trying to push Stanton to the point where he demands to be traded? Even if that's the case, how stupid is it to publicly demean and accordingly, devalue the player?

As info, here is Stanton's present contract, which is the one he signed with the Marlins in 2014. 

Screenshot_20231115_104139_DuckDuckGo.jpg

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DMK

DMK

It’s pretty stupid because now every single free agent is going to definitely pause before considering signing with the Yankees, if not completely negate a consideration outright. 

Not to mention that no one is taking that albatross of a contract anyway. Trout’s is at least viable because when he does play, he’s productive. Stanton is largely not. 

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