Lifetime's VC Andrews Movies Topic (Flowers In The Attic, The Dollangangers, The Casteels, etc) - General Discussion

[Moxie Cat]

2 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

To be rebellious, the other girls wore clothes that looked poor. Heaven refused because she had enough of that during her childhood.

Actually, didn't Tony buy Heaven super-nice clothes to make her look different (and isolate her) from the other girls? She was upset because she didn't have any sweaters and jeans to change into. Heaven realizes that he did it on purpose, and that he knew what the boarding school girls wore ahead of time, when he picks her up and gripes about what the other girls are wearing. But I admit that I don't remember if later on, she was OK with it.

I'd rather see a Garden of Shadows movie than a whole Dawn series, or any of the later ghostie series. For some reason, Lifetime has decided they don't want to bother with GoS and I wonder why. Maybe the period details would cost too much? The early twentieth-century setting of GoS was one of my favorite aspects of that book.

[Lady Iris]

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 10:37 PM, Kiki777 said:

WTF was up with Jason Priestly?  He sounded like he was reading his lines for the first time.  Though he was effectively creepy,  hugging Heaven while going mmmmmmm mmmmm mmmm.

Eye rollingly creepy. I'm glad he grew out some facial hair for this role because that did change his look. What a weird affect he used for Tony. He sounded stilted and unnatural.

Aside from the lack of Heaven's black hair were the cornflower blue eyes that were verbally pounded into our heads in the book. Has anybody even ever seen anyone with cornflower blue eyes?

Way disappointed in the lack of hillbilly accents. I was dying to hear Fanny say, "just gimme t'meat and taters."

[CountryGirl]

Another thing I wanted to see were the underground tunnels at Farthy, but maybe they will turn up in Fallen Hearts since it's in these tunnels that she and Troy are reunited.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Actually, didn't Tony buy Heaven super-nice clothes to make her look different (and isolate her) from the other girls? She was upset because she didn't have any sweaters and jeans to change into. Heaven realizes that he did it on purpose, and that he knew what the boarding school girls wore ahead of time, when he picks her up and gripes about what the other girls are wearing. But I admit that I don't remember if later on, she was OK with it.

I'd rather see a Garden of Shadows movie than a whole Dawn series, or any of the later ghostie series. For some reason, Lifetime has decided they don't want to bother with GoS and I wonder why. Maybe the period details would cost too much? The early twentieth-century setting of GoS was one of my favorite aspects of that book.

Yes, he did. Heaven asked but Tony insisted that was how everyone dressed. Until she got to school and realized she had all the wrong clothes when she asks Tony about it he says he knew but bitches about how girls dress which was why he picked out what he did for Heaven.

I really wish they had done a better job. The slow burn of Troy and Heaven's relationship. All their great moments. They make it more confusing in the movie with Heaven going to school, dance and then suddenly she's graduating they don't even really "show" any time has passed in the movie. Same with her showing up at the circus could they have gotten that scene over fast enough. She meets Tom, watches a few seconds of the show, talks to Luke, meets Stacy and Drake and now she's leaving. The hair of course. 

The only thing I have liked is Heaven calling out what happened to Fanny and Leigh as rape and not buying any of the bullshit the Rev or Tony are selling with that one. 

Next up we get a whole lot more of Logan. Won't that be fun. 

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

Has anybody even ever seen anyone with cornflower blue eyes?

Is cornflower blue like robin’s egg blue? A little bit lighter I would think. They could’ve done that with contacts!!

[Avaleigh]

It's so annoying to finally get an adaptation of a story I enjoyed so much as a kid only for it to turn out to be so shitty. I didn't have to terrible. Or at least it didn't have to lack entertainment value. Every change they made from the books is boring and/or inexplicable. Plus the production values aren't good. 

There are too many things to comment on and bitch about, but here are the things from the top of my head:

The way Tony and Jillian speak to the servants was so ridiculous. They're supposed to be accustomed to wealth particularly Tony and they just sounded ungracious and OTT. Jillian is supposed to be graceful and cold. Kelly's Jillian is mean drunk.

Jillian was mean but she wasn't as obvious about it on the surface. It was only from Heaven spending a lot of time with her that she realized what a piece of work her grandmother is. The degree to which they have her drinking doesn't work with Jillian's desire to stay as youthful as possible. This production totally downplays just how much of an obsession Jillian had with her appearance. Once Jillian goes off the deep end and starts sporting the clown make up, then it would have made sense for her to become a full fledged drunk. It would have worked better to show her drinking gradually escalate as she begins to feel threatened by Heaven presence. 

Jason Priestly...why on earth was he cast? He's quite possibly the worst thing about this movie and that's taking into consideration just how much of a disappointment the actor who is playing Troy is. He isn't menacing enough. He isn't creepy enough. He's creepy, sure, but I feel like they dialed it back a lot in comparison to the books. Book Tony is disturbing as fuck. Movie Tony is mostly a weird bore with a bad accent.

Farthy should feel magical. Not one of these productions have managed to get the right big house. Maybe it's an improvement on Foxworth Hall but not by much.

Troy...sigh. As already stated, the actor is too old. He also lacks charisma and passion. What a letdown. This guy liked Chopin, he made awesome food, he would read and paint and was a good listener. He was such a dream guy that I almost didn't care that he was Heaven's uncle. 

The boarding school scenes were rushed and unimaginative. And they should have given her a better dress for the dance! IIRC in the books the guys were like wow and wanted to dance with her and here she was just drinking by herself until she puked.

Didn't Heaven have a good relationship with the cook at Farthy? I would have liked to have seen that rather than getting that one frosty scene with the maid who told her she'd only be staying for a couple of days. 

I agree with the comment that there wasn't enough of a transition from her life in Winnerow to life at Farthingale. Her clothes weren't poor enough and there isn't anything to indicate how pleased she is just to have the quality of food they have at Farthy. I still remember how she went from feeling excited to having fresh fruit put into her morning cereal, to eventually feeling accustomed to a minor luxury like that. 

I'll watch Fallen Hearts but I can't say I'm excited. Fanny is a big reason for why that book (and Gates of Paradise) are tolerable and the other two movies have failed to do anything interesting with her character so far.

[Moxie Cat]

19 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

It's so annoying to finally get an adaptation of a story I enjoyed so much as a kid only for it to turn out to be so shitty.

These movies should have been made in the 1980s or even the 1990s....when TV knew how to do a great miniseries. I still enjoy many of those Judith Krantz and Danielle Steel flicks! They knew how to do over-the-top cheese and still be totally entertaining. I wonder if it was the incest element that ruled them out at the time, because VC sure was popular then. Rows and rows of these paperbacks at the drugstore were how I originally got into them.

19 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Farthy should feel magical. Not one of these productions have managed to get the right big house. Maybe it's an improvement on Foxworth Hall but not by much.

Didn't Tony originally meet Jillian when he hired her to paint the fairytale mural in the front hall? When Heaven came in the door, I was like, "Where is the painting?!" Now I'm not even interested in how they will retcon their meeting in WoD.

I totally agree...the houses have been a tremendous disappointment. Farthy actually looked a lot like the Foxworth Hall from the last batch of movies. I know the original '80s Flowers in the Attic was considered a bomb, but that movie did use a believable house for the long shots.

19 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

He was such a dream guy that I almost didn't care that he was Heaven's uncle.

I totally didn't care. Troy was awesome. And heck, Chris and Corrine were half-siblings and had four healthy kids in the VC-verse.

19 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Didn't Heaven have a good relationship with the cook at Farthy?

Rye Whiskey!

19 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Jason Priestly...why on earth was he cast? He's quite possibly the worst thing about this movie

Does anyone remember the 92010 episode where JP played a jewelry store owner, wearing old age makeup? (For no apparent reason other than to freak out the audience.) I am scared to see where this goes in Gates of Paradise.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Moxie Cat

[andromeda331]

36 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Troy...sigh. As already stated, the actor is too old. He also lacks charisma and passion. What a letdown. This guy liked Chopin, he made awesome food, he would read and paint and was a good listener. He was such a dream guy that I almost didn't care that he was Heaven's uncle. 

16 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

I totally didn't care. Troy was awesome. And heck, Chris and Corrine were half-siblings and had four healthy kids in the VC-verse.

I really didn't either. He was the only person who ever treated Heaven really well. They made him so perfect! He cooked, he listened to Choplin, and he listened to her. His gift of sending her to her siblings he knew how much that meant to her and getting Tatterton employees to show up at her graduation? I so wanted her to end up with him. Chris and Corinne were half siblings as well as uncle/niece and far more creepier then Heaven and Troy. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Didn't Tony originally meet Jillian when he hired her to paint the fairytale mural in the front hall? When Heaven came in the door, I was like, "Where is the painting?!" Now I'm not even interested in how they will retcon their meeting in WoD.

In Dark Angel and Web of Dreams, Tony and Jillian say that she painted fairy tale murals in the music room at Farthy.

18 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I guess that would have to be it--especially now considering @ElectricBoogaloo's timeline; if Heaven's birthday is in February, we can't even posit that she graduated at age 17 instead of 18. Still, though--the snow?!

Heaven's birthday is definitely in February. It's mentioned several times throughout the series (notably in the first chapter of both the first and second books). It's one of the few things that didn't get screwed up by the ghost writer!

Speaking of ages/birthdays, another thing that the ghost writer changed were Tony's and Jillian's ages.

In Dark Angel, Tony tells Heaven that he was 20 when he met Jillian who told him that she was 30 (but she was actually 40). In Web of Dreams, he tells Leigh that he's 23 and Jillian tells Leigh that she lied to Tony and said she was 28.

In Dark Angel, Tony says he was 17 when Troy was born but in Web of Dreams, Tony is 23 and Troy is 4 (making Tony 19 when Troy was born).

In Dark Angel, Tony says he is 40 and Jillian is 60. That means Tony was 9 years older than Leigh (Heaven mentions that Leigh would have been 31). But in Web of Dreams, Tony is 23 when Leigh is 12, making him 11 years older.

We know Leigh was 14 when Heaven was born. Heaven (who is 17 at the beginning of Dark Angel) notes that Leigh would have been 31 if she were alive. Tony and Jillian's ages add up in Dark Angel (Tony is 9 years older than Leigh so if she were 31, then Tony would be 40). But if you use the age information in Web off Dreams, the ages are all off (if Leigh were 31, that would make Tony 42).

I mean, seriously, how hard is it to just write down the  timeline established in the earlier books and not contradict it? It's not rocket science! I know it's nitpicky but the obvious lack of attention to detail/respect for the original source material is just one more reason why I can't with the ghost writer.

[andromeda331]

36 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In Dark Angel and Web of Dreams, Tony and Jillian say that she painted fairy tale murals in the music room at Farthy.

Heaven's birthday is definitely in February. It's mentioned several times throughout the series (notably in the first chapter of both the first and second books). It's one of the few things that didn't get screwed up by the ghost writer!

Speaking of ages/birthdays, another thing that the ghost writer changed were Tony's and Jillian's ages.

In Dark Angel, Tony tells Heaven that he was 20 when he met Jillian who told him that she was 30 (but she was actually 40). In Web of Dreams, he tells Leigh that he's 23 and Jillian tells Leigh that she lied to Tony and said she was 28.

In Dark Angel, Tony says he was 17 when Troy was born but in Web of Dreams, Tony is 23 and Troy is 4 (making Tony 19 when Troy was born).

In Dark Angel, Tony says he is 40 and Jillian is 60. That means Tony was 9 years older than Leigh (Heaven mentions that Leigh would have been 31). But in Web of Dreams, Tony is 23 when Leigh is 12, making him 11 years older.

We know Leigh was 14 when Heaven was born. Heaven (who is 17 at the beginning of Dark Angel) notes that Leigh would have been 31 if she were alive. Tony and Jillian's ages add up in Dark Angel (Tony is 9 years older than Leigh so if she were 31, then Tony would be 40). But if you use the age information in Web off Dreams, the ages are all off (if Leigh were 31, that would make Tony 42).

I mean, seriously, how hard is it to just write down the  timeline established in the earlier books and not contradict it? It's not rocket science! I know it's nitpicky but the obvious lack of attention to detail/respect for the original source material is just one more reason why I can't with the ghost writer.

I wonder what Tony's and Troy's parents were like seeing how they ended up with two very odd sons and ages so far apart. Tony the creepy rapist, and Troy who was perfect but did have that whole thing with death and choosing to live in the cottage. How did Troy turn out so well with Tony is primary parent? Maybe really, really good nanny?

[Queena]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I wonder what Tony's and Troy's parents were like seeing how they ended up with two very odd sons and ages so far apart. Tony the creepy rapist, and Troy who was perfect but did have that whole thing with death and choosing to live in the cottage. How did Troy turn out so well with Tony is primary parent? Maybe really, really good nanny?

Troy annoyed me. The blouses, the SAD, the wanting or waiting to die. Heaven wasn't a real aquarius because the majority of us can't deal with such histrionics. I hate the word melancholy because of Troy... You're SAD dude! It's the seasons changing... My God close the freaking window!!! I'm glad that they left that part out of the movie, although I was happy to see that they kept him in blouses. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 minutes ago, Queena said:

I was happy to see that they kept him in blouses. 

It cracks me up that they changed so many details from the books but they kept Troy's blouses.

[Queena]

13 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It cracks me up that they changed so many details from the books but they kept Troy's blouses.

I wonder if they skipped the part on age. Troy was a bit too old. Cal would have made a better Troy. Tony or JP was off... There was something about his performance. I'm still going to watch all of the movies. The Casteel series was my first adult book. I credit my mom for my love of reading, but it was her reading FITA that intrigued toddler me. 

[Scarlett45]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I wonder what Tony's and Troy's parents were like seeing how they ended up with two very odd sons and ages so far apart. Tony the creepy rapist, and Troy who was perfect but did have that whole thing with death and choosing to live in the cottage. How did Troy turn out so well with Tony is primary parent? Maybe really, really good nanny?

I thought they were half brothers (Same Dad, different Moms). Is that wrong?

Yes I can see Tony employing a really good nanny who loved Troy and treated him well. Tony and Jillian were probably gone all the time doing whatever and he may have seen Tony once a month if that. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

I thought they were half brothers (Same Dad, different Mom’s). Is that wrong?

Yes I can see Tony employing a really good nanny who loved Troy and treated him well. Tony and Jillian were probably gone all the time doing whatever and he may have seen Tony once a month if that. 

No, they were full siblings at least as far as we know. I've always wondered if that was true or not given the huge age difference. 

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

No, they were full siblings at least as far as we know. I've always wondered if that was true or not given the huge age difference. 

Surely possible. Perhaps Tony was a child born when they were in their early 20s and then Troy came around when their Mom was 40, a “vacation baby”.

[andromeda331]

13 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Surely possible. Perhaps Tony was a child born when they were in their early 20s and then Troy came around when their Mom was 40, a “vacation baby”.

Sure its possible. It does happen.  But I still wonder if Mom Tatterton played around or had an oops or Dad,  I've also kind of wondered off and on if Troy was Tony's but he lied or not maybe they are full siblings and wondering what their parents were like given how Tony and Troy turned out. I've wondered if Tony ever raped someone before. Jillian set it up knowing it was going to happen. Did she hear something or did just peg him as a rapist? 

[JAYJAY1979]

I always figured Jillian was so vain and into herself that she married  Tony cause of a mid life crisis..and the money (didn't she grow up working class in Texas) and probably didn't want sex cause that was unladylike...so to get him off her back...she pushed him on Leigh. 

I recall in Dark Angel that Luke wrote them about Heaven coming...and he said she was a year younger plus that Leigh had recently passed away due to cancer.  When troy got ill, he blurted out to Tony Heaven's true age when he delirium.  That event led to Tony concluding Heaven must be his daughter. 

Yet, at the end of Web of Dreams...Tony got a note from a PI he hired saying Leigh had died giving birth to Heaven.   Did the ghost writer do this on purpose or more evidence of his laziness as writer?

Edited August 6, 2019 by JAYJAY1979

[Scarlett45]

19 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Sure its possible. It does happen.  But I still wonder if Mom Tatterton played around or had an oops or Dad,  I've also kind of wondered off and on if Troy was Tony's but he lied or not maybe they are full siblings and wondering what their parents were like given how Tony and Troy turned out. I've wondered if Tony ever raped someone before. Jillian set it up knowing it was going to happen. Did she hear something or did just peg him as a rapist? 

I think maybe Jillian probably saw how Tony looked at Leigh and threw her daughter to the wolves. Yes I’m quite sure Tony raped someone before. You don’t go from just thinking about it or having fantasies to raping your child step daughter! I wouldn’t be surprised if he got in trouble at boarding school attacking classmates or sex workers. 

It could be Tony was the bad seed who was the first born son, born into money and power which is a bad combo. If Troy was his brother I think they would’ve paid the girl to go away, not raised the boy as their own (although that is possible). 

[andromeda331]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think maybe Jillian probably saw how Tony looked at Leigh and threw her daughter to the wolves. Yes I’m quite sure Tony raped someone before. You don’t go from just thinking about it or having fantasies to raping your child step daughter! I wouldn’t be surprised if he got in trouble at boarding school attacking classmates or sex workers. 

It could be Tony was the bad seed who was the first born son, born into money and power which is a bad combo. If Troy was his brother I think they would’ve paid the girl to go away, not raised the boy as their own (although that is possible). 

That makes sense. Maybe he was the bad seed and his parents realized it and Troy was the do-over? 

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, andromeda331 said:

That makes sense. Maybe he was the bad seed and his parents realized it and Troy was the do-over? 

This is possible, and they sadly died before they could see him to adulthood. 

[BitterApple]

11 hours ago, Queena said:

Troy annoyed me. The blouses, the SAD, the wanting or waiting to die. Heaven wasn't a real aquarius because the majority of us can't deal with such histrionics. I hate the word melancholy because of Troy... You're SAD dude! It's the seasons changing... My God close the freaking window!!! I'm glad that they left that part out of the movie, although I was happy to see that they kept him in blouses. 

Troy's emo tantrums would've annoyed the shit out of me as well. Seriously, who opens a window and waits for pneumonia because their girlfriend is a few days late returning home? A simple check of the weather reports would've told him there were bad storms in West Virginia and Heaven couldn't get a flight out. 

[Queena]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Troy's emo tantrums would've annoyed the shit out of me as well. Seriously, who opens a window and waits for pneumonia because their girlfriend is a few days late returning home? A simple check of the weather reports would've told him there were bad storms in West Virginia and Heaven couldn't get a flight out. 

Exactly! I feel as if he played with her emotions. Then he kept his depression guarded... I thought that he was gay, and yes I know that he clarified that, but dude... 

I listened to a podcast on Dark Angel. It's all fresh in my mind. 

[zenme]

Priestly was a horrible Tony. I also agree that book Heaven was supposed to be gorgeous. As someone upthread described her, she’s “milquetoast.”  I would say this Heaven should be renamed “Limbo.”  The casting was a horrible, and I’m gathering those responsible did not read the books. It’s a disappointment, but like many others, I’ll be watching the adaptations. Love the books, hate the movies!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I always figured Jillian was so vain and into herself that she married  Tony cause of a mid life crisis..and the money (didn't she grow up working class in Texas) and probably didn't want sex cause that was unladylike...so to get him off her back...she pushed him on Leigh. 

I recall in Dark Angel that Luke wrote them about Heaven coming...and he said she was a year younger plus that Leigh had recently passed away due to cancer.  When troy got ill, he blurted out to Tony Heaven's true age when he delirium.  That event led to Tony concluding Heaven must be his daughter. 

Yet, at the end of Web of Dreams...Tony got a note from a PI he hired saying Leigh had died giving birth to Heaven.   Did the ghost writer do this on purpose or more evidence of his laziness as writer?

According to Web of Dreams, Jillian was really into Tony while she was still married to Cleave. He hired her to paint the murals at Farthy and the way Leigh described seeing Jillian and Tony together, they were in love (or at least in infatuated with each other). Jillian was never in love with Cleave. He was much older and she only married him because he was rich, he could get her the hell out of Texas, and she was already pregnant with someone else's child. She had a very comfortable life with Cleave so she was fine being with him until she met Tony who was younger, hotter, and richer.

Luke wrote to the Tattertons at the end of Heaven. He lied about Leigh dying recently, but he did not mention Heaven's age. Heaven is the one who fucked up and told Tony and Jillian that she was a year younger the day that she met them.

Troy revealed Heaven's real age to Tony while she was off visiting Tom and Fanny, but not while he was delirious. He casually mentioned it, not realizing it meant anything. Heaven's real age is supposed to be what tipped Tony off to being her father, but yes, that letter that Annie found in Web of Dreams (from the PI to Tony) destroys that completely since the PI said that Leigh died in childbirth. I don't know why the ghost writer decided to include that letter because Web of Dreams would have worked fine without it and then we wouldn't have this contradictory information. Once again, the ghost writer screwed up (another reason why I dislike him).

[andromeda331]

49 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

According to Web of Dreams, Jillian was really into Tony while she was still married to Cleave. He hired her to paint the murals at Farthy and the way Leigh described seeing Jillian and Tony together, they were in love (or at least in infatuated with each other). Jillian was never in love with Cleave. He was much older and she only married him because he was rich, he could get her the hell out of Texas, and she was already pregnant with someone else's child. She had a very comfortable life with Cleave so she was fine being with him until she met Tony who was younger, hotter, and richer.

Luke wrote to the Tattertons at the end of Heaven. He lied about Leigh dying recently, but he did not mention Heaven's age. Heaven is the one who fucked up and told Tony and Jillian that she was a year younger the day that she met them.

Troy revealed Heaven's real age to Tony while she was off visiting Tom and Fanny, but not while he was delirious. He casually mentioned it, not realizing it meant anything. Heaven's real age is supposed to be what tipped Tony off to being her father, but yes, that letter that Annie found in Web of Dreams (from the PI to Tony) destroys that completely since the PI said that Leigh died in childbirth. I don't know why the ghost writer decided to include that letter because Web of Dreams would have worked fine without it and then we wouldn't have this contradictory information. Once again, the ghost writer screwed up (another reason why I dislike him).

It was really stupid on the ghost writer's part. Why include the letter? There's no need only to show that Tony knew all along which he really didn't. Then again this is the man who couldn't keep details write from Flowers in the Attic when he finished Garden of Shadows and after writing that Ruby's mother's name was Gabrielle in four books suddenly became Gabriel the last one that told her story. Heaven lied either so they wouldn't think badly of her mother for being pregnant already or try and make it sound like Leigh had a much better life after she left then she did. I don't remember which. It was stupid although she didn't know the importance of it although Luke could have told her before going too or leave out that he knew Leigh's daughter was going to Boston to stay with her mother's rapist. 

Do you think Jillian was really into Tony or just into him because he was younger and had a lot more money? Later its definitely clear she's only into Tony's money and all it can give her and keep her young and beautiful. She seemed really into Tony in the beginning but that seemed to dye off real quickly. But who knows maybe that's what she did to land Cleave and pass her baby off as his. Then after the marriage drop it. It worked once before and she certainly knew enough to make sure Tony couldn't divorce her. Or she could love him the way any narcissist loves someone.  

[Daisy]

12 hours ago, Queena said:

Exactly! I feel as if he played with her emotions. Then he kept his depression guarded... I thought that he was gay, and yes I know that he clarified that, but dude... 

I listened to a podcast on Dark Angel. It's all fresh in my mind. 

do you happen to have a link to it? 

regarding the Tony being half/full siblings - I always fully flat out thought it was gonna come up ala Dolls that Troy was Tony's son, not brother.

also I never liked Troy either. he was too much drama. though, he allowed Heaven to do what she loved best: be in control and take over without giving her grief lol

Edited August 7, 2019 by Daisy

[Moxie Cat]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Then again this is the man who couldn't keep details write from Flowers in the Attic when he finished Garden of Shadows

Question I've always wondered: did VC intend for Chris and Corinne to be half-siblings? I've always wondered this because this fact never comes up (that I recall) in Flowers, Petals, Thorns, and Seeds. It's only ever mentioned that they were uncle/niece. I read Garden of Shadows first and always wondered why "the Grandmother" never threw this secret in Corinne's face at an opportune moment in Flowers or Petals.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Moxie Cat

[Snow Apple]

I didn't know V C Andrews had passed away when Gardens of Shadows was published. But I had an inkling something was wrong when Olivia's account of Corrine's first period was completely the opposite of Corrine's from Flowers. Also Malcolm never horribly punished the children like Corrine described.

So I suspect Ms. Andrews never planned for Corrine and Chris to be siblings.

[JAYJAY1979]

From what I've heard...V.C got a 2 book deal for the FITA prequel and Fallen Hearts about 2 months before she passed..and I guess she hadn't gotten far with plotting/writing them b4 she passed.  If anything, she might have have done outlines for both books..but not written them. The books flowed well plot wise..but the writing tone was different and details were wrong...if that makes sense.

[Daisy]

2 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

From what I've heard...V.C got a 2 book deal for the FITA prequel and Fallen Hearts about 2 months before she passed..and I guess she hadn't gotten far with plotting/writing them b4 she passed.  If anything, she might have have done outlines for both books..but not written them. The books flowed well plot wise..but the writing tone was different and details were wrong...if that makes sense.

that's basically it. 
Garden of Shadows was very much "VCA" though the tone was wrong, as well as Fallen hearts because i felt those were very much "this is what i am going to do" (but she passed away."

I personally feel that had VCA had lived we would have not gotten Annie's book (or Leigh) - but Jillian's pov. (same with Dawn/Cutlers. I think we would have learned about Laura Sue more than Lillian). I just feel that the Ghostwriter got stuck with. 

Main Daughter who is SPECIAL
Main Daughter gets raped
Main Daughter has child(ren) by other men
Main Daughter gets married by childhood sweetheart
Main Daughter Dies
Daughter's Daughter tells a story (not really needed)
Gramma tells a story that's not really needed. 

eta: good gravy i just finished watching heaven. 
did they ever mess things up. at least FITA was more accurate. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Daisy

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Daisy said:

that's basically it. 
Garden of Shadows was very much "VCA" though the tone was wrong, as well as Fallen hearts because i felt those were very much "this is what i am going to do" (but she passed away."

I personally feel that had VCA had lived we would have not gotten Annie's book (or Leigh) - but Jillian's pov. (same with Dawn/Cutlers. I think we would have learned about Laura Sue more than Lillian). I just feel that the Ghostwriter got stuck with. 

Main Daughter who is SPECIAL
Main Daughter gets raped
Main Daughter has child(ren) by other men
Main Daughter gets married by childhood sweetheart
Main Daughter Dies
Daughter's Daughter tells a story (not really needed)
Gramma tells a story that's not really needed. 

eta: good gravy i just finished watching heaven. 
did they ever mess things up. at least FITA was more accurate. 

Yeah, he pretty much sticks with that and so much is repeat from Flowers in the Attic or Casteels series. In Dawn, Dawn's in a poor family, oops not really hers, Grandma's a Bitch, real mom is very, very Jillian or Corinne light, real brother is obsessed in away that makes Christopher look subtle, Vera/Fanny like sister but without any real reason that Vera and Fanny had I'm not even sure if he realized that deep down Fanny and Heaven did love each other, identical rapes. Ruby gets the nice grandma, and the bitch is her stepmother, real dad's nice but he's whipped and a wuss, a more Fanny type sister except again no reason you could see why Vera and Fanny were like they were Clara Sue and Giselle not really. Melody's the only one that skipped the new daughter book for Laura's story which while nice we already knew. VCA really missed the point on why we got Jory's and Bart's story to see how Chris and Cathy were still effected by what happened years ago and how it effected their parenting while also finishing Corinne-Cathy. VCA's daughter story never really tells us anything we don't already know. Annie and Christie lose their parents and go to live with grandpa or uncle not knowing that he's a rapist and he of course tries to rape them. That's really it. There needed to be something else revealed. That's why I always go back and forth on whether VC intended Chris and Corinne to be half-siblings, it never does get mentioned again and we never do find out if Corinne or anyone else ever actually finds out.  But it would explain why Olivia was even more suspicious of Chris and Cathy and not believing no matter what that they were 'innocent'. Its still odd that he didn't show Malcolm dishing out any of punishments that Corinne claimed. From everything we heard about him he really seems the type. He never punished Corinne and he stopped punishing his sons after he and Olivia made their deal he pretty much ignored them for Corinne. 

Its not a bad thing if its good but often its not and he usually tells two stories we don't need. 

For Casteel the only thing Leigh's book did was reveal that Jillian set Leigh up. 

[Snow Apple]

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

I personally feel that had VCA had lived we would have not gotten Annie's book (or Leigh) - but Jillian's pov. 

Possibly. Or at least she wouldn't have killed off Heaven to make way for Annie. WTF was that?!

[Daisy]

48 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Possibly. Or at least she wouldn't have killed off Heaven to make way for Annie. WTF was that?!

Lazy Ghostwriter Writing.  that's what. 

[andromeda331]

I can't believe I forgot this. But Jillian knew who Heaven was the whole time even before the stupid letter. Leigh told Jillian she was pregnant she kept yelling at her mother that she was going to be a grandmother and none of her beauty stuff will change that before she ran away. I guess she could have assumed Leigh lost the baby, but that seems unlikely even with Heaven lying about her age Jillian had to know exactly who she was.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Heaven wasn't a real aquarius because the majority of us can't deal with such histrionics.

Well, I mean, she's not a real anything. I'm a "real Aquarius" who is able to deal with histrionics--usually from my sister (incidentally, also an Aquarius).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I finally got around to watching Heaven and within the first minute, I was like ugh, this is going to be a pain in my ass to sit through! I mean, I already knew it was going to be terrible thanks to everyone's posts but it was so obvious from the beginning that this was a horrible production. It was a bad adaptation which was made worse by bad acting, bad dialogue, and a complete lack of fidelity to the source material. I know the various hair colors have already been discussed ad nauseum but I don't understand why the Lifetime budget didn't extend to buying a handful of wigs.

The cabin and the school were way too nice. Instead of a tiny schoolhouse in a small town, we got a huge modern school complete with a hallway full of rows of metal lockers. The one room shack was decent looking house with some extra crap on the porch. Instead of old shapeless grey dresses, all the Casteel kids have regular looking clothes and different outfits in EVERY scene.

As expected, they glossed over the entire first half of the book in the first 30 minutes so they could focus on Heaven living with Cal and Kitty. And WTF with changing Luke selling the kids to Luke finding a job for Tom and giving away the other kids?

Thank goodness for Julie Benz who was the only one who could act. Her interpretation of Kitty was the perfect combination of charming and menacing.

I can't believe that anyone thought the actress playing Heaven was strong enough to carry three movies.

The one thing that the movie did a good job with was showing how Cal groomed Heaven and why she felt so grateful to him. Kitty wasn't nearly as abusive and crazy in the movie as she was in the book, but it was clear how grateful Heaven felt to have someone be kind to her. I hated that they made her "relationship" with Cal consensual in the movie though. Heaven made it obvious in the book that she was not comfortable with Cal pressuring her to have sex but that she felt that she owed him and that she couldn't say no to him. WTF was with Kitty telling Heaven that she had her blessing to be with Cal? Ugh, gross on so many levels.

The other thing that the movie got right was Logan being an insufferable dick.

It was a huge mistake not to depict Heaven's relationships with Fanny and Tom more accurately. To was her best friend and her support system. Showing their close bond is what makes his death hurt so much in Dark Angel. And Fanny's unwavering jealousy is what drives so much of her relationship with Heaven, ultimately leading to her affair with Logan. Not establishing that now was just stupid.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Okay, first of all, Jason Priestley is too old to play Tony Tatterton. He's supposed to be 40. Jason is 50 and he looks it. I never thought he was the greatest actor when he was on 90210, but he was just awful in Dark Angel. It was like watching someone who had never taken acting classes before read their first scene. Just so SO bad.

Kelly Rutherford has the classic cool blonde beauty to play Jillian, but I hate the way they wrote her in the movie. Jillian wasn't OCD about cleanliness like Kitty and she was certainly not a drunk, let alone a sloppy drunk.

I don't know why Jillian and Tony were acting like such assholes to the servants. It was so odd.

The staircase in the front hallway of Farthy looked just like the one in the Dollanganger movies.

Everyone involved in Dark Angel gets 1 million demerits for having Tony say "between her and I." Did NO ONE on the entire writing staff have a grasp of basic grammar? Did no one on set hear that and know that it was wrong? And did no one realize that someone as educated as Tony Tatterton would never make such a basic mistake?

The actor playing Troy was way too old. He's supposed to  be 23. The actor is 42 and it's obvious that he's nowhere near Heaven's age. It's not like he's such an amazing actor that they had to cast someone two decades older than the character is supposed to be. I agree that the actor who played Cal would have been a better choice to play Troy.

The main problem is that both Tony and Troy are supposed to be charming and neither of these actors provided that. Tony came off as just a run of the mill (albeit rich) jerk and Troy was a total bore who was dating a girl half his age.

Weird that Granny was the only one of the Casteels with a southern accent, yet when Heaven moves to New England her blonde classmate has more of an accent than anyone in Winnerow.

Once again, the aspect of the book they stayed most faithful to was Logan being a judgmental dickhead.

All of the dolls displayed on tables around Farthy made the grand estate look like a grandma's house.

Haaha, when Heaven said, "No more talk of darkness," I heard, "Forget these wide-eyed fears, I'm here, nothing can harm you, my words will warm and calm you."

I totally cracked up when Logan's mother said that Heaven had transformed and was unrecognizable because she looked EXACTLY the same.

The girl playing Fanny is a terrible actress.

And how does Winnerow have a fancy hotel now instead of a shitty motel?

Heaven's dream sequences were so cheesy. That is exactly the kind of thing I expect from a Lifetime movie though.

One of the changes I didn't mind was Heaven telling Tony to fuck off and then earning a scholarship to college so she didn't have to take any money from him.

 

On 8/4/2019 at 2:30 PM, andromeda331 said:

Yes, especially when you consider Jillian's and Tony's version is pretty much the same as Rev's excuse for raping Fanny. She seduced him, she was a tramp, a whore and he had no choice but to have sex with a 14 (or was she younger?) year old girl just like Tony's version he had no choice but to have sex with a 13 year old girl.

In the books, Heaven was 14 when Luke sold her to Kitty and Cal. Tom was four months younger than Heaven and Fanny was a year younger than Tom, so she was 12-13 when the Reverend bought her. In Fallen Hearts during Drake's custody hearing, Fanny's lawyer says that she was 14 when she got pregnant with Darcy.

On 8/4/2019 at 11:47 AM, Moxie Cat said:

It's always interesting to me that Heaven spent weeks/months in Europe with him AFTER she became aware of who/what he really was. In the books, she didn't shove him out of her life, which is why the honeymoon at Farthy makes sense. It will be interesting to see what reason they come up with for her and Logan's return to Farthy in the movie, when she made it clear to Tony she wanted nothing to do with him. 

I think that she didn't completely cut Tony off right away because she wanted that college degree so that she could go back to Winnerow and be a teacher. She had the Casteel pride, but I think she also knew that she could not afford to put herself through school. With Tom dead, I think she felt the need to finish college for both of them.

Yes, she could have gotten a job to pay her tuition and gone to a less prestigious (less expensive) school, but at that point I think she wanted the fastest track to get back to Winnerow as a college educated woman to prove them all wrong. She had lost almost everything by then (Tom, Troy, Our Jane & Keith) so I think that the only goal she had to keep her going was that college degree.

Tony used to take her to Europe whenever she had a break from school. They had gotten reports that Troy was visiting all of the different Tatterton factories there so these trips to Europe were both of them secretly hoping that they'd run into Troy while they were there.

Heaven had already decided to go back to Winnerow to teach and she went to Tony to tell him, which is when she found out about Troy's ride into the sea. I think that finding out Troy was dead was what made her decide to cut her ties with Tony. There was no more hope that she would see Troy again, so there was no point in being at Farthy or putting up with Tony's presence anymore.

In the books, she invited Tony to the wedding only because she didn't want to reveal to Logan that Tony was her bio dad. Then Tony wrote to Logan (rather than Heaven) to say that he couldn't come because Jillian was too fragile to travel. Tony then offered (to Logan, not Heaven) to host a second wedding reception for them at Farthy. Logan was so excited about it that Heaven didn't want to say no. They were only supposed to be at Farthy for four days before going on their honeymoon in Virginia Beach and then returning to Winnerow, but of course Tony managed to sidetrack Logan by offering him a job.

[AnnieHeights]

On 8/3/2019 at 8:26 PM, Moxie Cat said:

Does the actress who plays Heaven remind anyone of another actress? It's driving me crazy! It's not all the time - but when she smiles, her smile looks a LOT like someone else's. (It's not the actress herself - I don't know her from any of her other credits.) Please post if you have any ideas!

She looks like a poor man's Anna Kendrick to me.

 

I have only seen about an hour of Dark Angel and was crushed to see the actor portraying Troy!!  He was way too old, too boring, not sexy and correct me if I am wrong (it has been years and years since I read the book) but wasn't Troy supposed to be pale with dark hair and all poetic/dreamy-like?  Gah!  I hate the casting people for these movies!  Jillian was spot on, I will give them that but Jason Priestly?  Whoever it is playing Angel?  Just awful.          

[BitterApple]

40 minutes ago, AnnieHeights said:

I have only seen about an hour of Dark Angel and was crushed to see the actor portraying Troy!!  He was way too old, too boring, not sexy and correct me if I am wrong (it has been years and years since I read the book) but wasn't Troy supposed to be pale with dark hair and all poetic/dreamy-like?  Gah!  I hate the casting people for these movies!  Jillian was spot on, I will give them that but Jason Priestly?  Whoever it is playing Angel?  Just awful.          

IIRC, Troy was described much like Julian from the Dollanganger series. Pale, with dark features and red lips. I wonder if VC was going for a quasi-vampire theme? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 hours ago, AnnieHeights said:

wasn't Troy supposed to be pale with dark hair and all poetic/dreamy-like? 

16 hours ago, BitterApple said:

IIRC, Troy was described much like Julian from the Dollanganger series. Pale, with dark features and red lips

In Dark Angel, Heaven describes Troy as having dark brown hair with hints of copper which she says is what she thought Keith's hair would look like when he was older. She also said Troy had thick dark eyebrows and dark eyes. Tony, on the other hand, is described as blonde with blue eyes. For some reason, I always thought he had brown hair like Troy.

[Avaleigh]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In Dark Angel, Heaven describes Troy as having dark brown hair with hints of copper which she says is what she thought Keith's hair would look like when he was older. She also said Troy had thick dark eyebrows and dark eyes. Tony, on the other hand, is described as blonde with blue eyes. For some reason, I always thought he had brown hair like Troy.

It's been a long time since I read the books. I didn't realize that he was supposed to be blonde especially since the artwork for Web of Dreams (IIRC) had him with dark hair. (And didn't young Troy with the sailor suit have light hair?) If Tony and Leigh were both blonde with blue eyes then you'd think that Heaven would have been blonde.

Question for those with better memories than me: Annie is Troy's baby, right? Did Logan ever find out? 

Back to the boarding school discussion, another weird ass thing that I remember from the books was Tony making sure that Heaven had a single red rose when she'd go to have her meals at school. (Maybe he only did it for the first week she was there? Either way it was weird AF.) It was one more thing that ended up isolating her and making her seem strange to her classmates. I wasn't expecting the movie to show this but they really did water down the creep factor wherever they could. (As if further proof was needed that these books should not have been picked up by Lifetime.)

A movie just doesn't give enough time to establish the things that matter. We flew through the Winnerow period so there was zero sense of the struggle or the bonds that developed between Heaven and her family. The scenes where they were sold off should have been gut wrenching but we didn't spend enough time with the Casteels as a family to really feel the impact. 

If they'd made the Casteel saga into a limited series (maybe six episodes a season) that would have worked IMO. Have the first season be the Heaven book. Luke could even have a few quick flashbacks of "Angel" to set up the obsession. (And have Leigh be played by the same actress who plays Heaven.) Show the near starvation, develop why Fanny is jealousy of Heaven and how she would needle Heaven about Luke preferring her as a daughter. Show the town looking down on the Casteels in the church scenes where everybody is dressed in their best while the Casteels look shabby but, due to Granny, still make an effort to put on a united front. Show how Heaven was more of a mother to Keith and Our Jane than Sarah was. Show Tom's constant support of Heaven so that we really feel the pain when people like Kitty and Tony interfere with them staying in touch. Include a moment of Granny protecting Heaven from Luke after he gets particularly creepy with her. Have Miss Deale be the sort of inspiration that she was meant to be and have us understand why Heaven wants to earn her degree to become a teacher. 

Have the second season be Dark Angel. We meet the Tattertons, we learn a little more about Leigh (who should be sort of an enigma until the final season), we get the bording school from hell, they develop the relationship with Troy and contrast that with Logan. 

Have the third season be Fallen Hearts and let us see Heaven succeed at being a great teacher. Show Logan being an asswipe and see how easy it is for him to get sucked into Tony's orbit. Show the crazy trappedintheatticBabyJane!Jillian where she's full of regret and stuck in the past. 

The fourth season would be a combination of Gates of Paradise and Web of Dreams. You'd have the party and the deaths of Heaven and Logan start out the season. Annie's move to Farthy and her discovery of Leigh's diary. Have flashbacks interwoven with Annie's story and have the rape and near rape coincide. Have Annie being armed with the truth help her fight Tony off and have him recognize what a real deal monster he is even if it's something that he only momentarily accepts. Have Annie's rescue and escape from Farthy mirror and coincide with Leigh finally taking the opportunity to run away. 

Actually, more than anything, I wish they'd done this with the Dollanganger saga. That was the story that needed time to develop. Don't let the kids out of the attic until the second season just to drive home the point of how long they were in there. 

Oh, and Yvonne Strahovski would have made a terrific Corrine. 

[kissedbyarose]

First, I never had anyone to talk about these books with when I was younger so I’m thrilled by this forum right now. I actually read up to the DeBeers (mostly out of habit) and refuse to read anything after that including any “sequels” to MSA and the Dollanganger series. 

Second, now that I had more time to think about this the actress playing Heaven would’ve definitely made a better Ruby. That series is probably a better fit for the Lifetime treatment than both Heaven and FITA series.

18 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In Dark Angel, Heaven describes Troy as having dark brown hair with hints of copper which she says is what she thought Keith's hair would look like when he was older. She also said Troy had thick dark eyebrows and dark eyes. Tony, on the other hand, is described as blonde with blue eyes. For some reason, I always thought he had brown hair like Troy.

I was trying to quote all three posts but I’m not sure what happened. Anyway, I also thought Tony had brown hair. I could be misremembering but Heaven described her hair as dark but not as dark as Luke’s or Fanny’s but enough for her to think she got it from being a Casteel. 

Then when she finds out about Tony being her father she notes that her hair isn’t dark Casteel hair, its Tatterton hair. 

Now that I’m thinking about it, I feel like Tony’s hair is probably one of those things that gets messed up from book to book (probably even within the same book) because the ghostwriter is a shameless idiot.

It sucks that the movies got so much wrong but I’m watching this until the end. I wonder if another VC Andrews series will get the Lifetime treatment. If so, what would you guys like to see?

Edited August 10, 2019 by kissedbyarose

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I didn't realize that he was supposed to be blonde especially since the artwork for Web of Dreams (IIRC) had him with dark hair. (And didn't young Troy with the sailor suit have light hair?) If Tony and Leigh were both blonde with blue eyes then you'd think that Heaven would have been blonde.

Question for those with better memories than me: Annie is Troy's baby, right? Did Logan ever find out? 

Yes, Annie is Troy's, but as far as the audience knows, Logan never found out. Troy and Heaven were the only ones who knew that Troy was Annie's father and neither of them told Logan, Fanny, or anyone (until the end of Gates of Paradise when Troy can see that Annie and Luke are in love but fighting it because they believe they're half-siblings). I think Annie also finds the letter that Troy wrote to Heaven (folded up and hidden inside the maze music box that Troy sent after Annie was born).

I really thought Tony had dark brown hair but when I went back and checked, Heaven describes Tony as blonde when she initially meets him and Jillian in Dark Angel, which makes no sense because as you pointed out, two blonde parents would not produce a brunette child. It's true that sometimes hair color changes, but with blondes/brunettes, it's usually that they are blonde when they're young and their hair gets darker when they're older.

Later in Web of Dreams, the ghost writer says that Tony has dark brown hair so apparently someone finally realized the error in giving Tony and Leigh blonde hair (which is a recessive gene) since dark hair is a dominant gene and it would be extremely unlikely that Heaven ended up with her "dark Indian Casteel" hair as a result.

The artist for Fallen Hearts gave Tony light hair. Heaven mentioned in Fallen Hearts that Tony had more grey hair around the temples but the picture of him has no dark hair at all. Weirdly, the artist also made Tony look REALLY old in that picture, despite the fact that Heaven was gone for only two years so he still should have looked pretty young. She was 23 at her wedding so Tony should have been in his mid 40s. In that picture, he looks like he's in his mid 50s or 60s.

[JAYJAY1979]

Curious about how bad Fallen Hearts will be since the book wasn't a strong book..so I can only imagine how weak the movie version will be.

https://youtu.be/tlvVB8Oqf3Y

[meatball77]

Death by Lion!  We got that at least.  With comically bad effects.  We needed every insane scene like that.

[BitterApple]

Just now, meatball77 said:

Death by Lion!  We got that at least.  With comically bad effects.  We needed every insane scene like that.

And don't you just love how everyone was milling about in the background as Tom bled to death? No shouts to call 911, no one rushing in to stop the bleeding; just Heaven in a tragic wig crying over the body.

I also think it's hysterical the writers suddenly remembered there's a Grandpa. Have they been hiding him in cold storage all this time?

[meatball77]

I thought the same thing about Grandpa. . . . .

[Dr.OO7]

So how bad was this one?

[BitterApple]

7 minutes ago, Camille said:

So how bad was this one?

Despite the plot inaccuracies and horrid acting, I have to say I didn't totally hate it. It's the best of the bunch so far and there was a little more depth to the scenes, particularly the final showdown between Fanny and Heaven. I also enjoyed Kelly Rutherford's portrayal of Jillian. It's a bummer they let her go to waste in the previous movie.