Jimmy McGill: Go, Land Crabs!

[wrestlesflamingos]

Your place for all Jimmy related thoughts..

[editorgrrl]

Before the BCS premiere, Vulture compiled "Everything We Learned About Saul Goodman From Breaking Bad": http://www.vulture.com/2015/02/better-call-saul-breaking-bad-saul-goodman.html

Now that we (the audience) know Jimmy can play fast & loose with the truth, TPTB don't necessarily have to treat everything Saul said as canon.

[Ankai]

I made a long post in the Chuck thread that contrasted the brothers, but I think that Jimmy could represent the plucky trickster standing up to an oppressive and hypocritical system. He does not necessarily fight to win, but he fights to do as much damage to those who have wronged him and his family before losing. Of course, this means that he takes any victory that he can get, pushes for more, and then wallows in the fact that he can never catch a break in the end.

While Chuck may portray himself as a rags-to-riches man who struck out on his own, Jimmy values family and friends, which is one reason why he is so loyal to Chuck and Kimmy. What Chuck may consider cheating or devaluing the essence of the law profession, Chuck sees as going the distance for those who depend on him. Yes, he sometimes feels guilt about what he does, but you cannot fight fair against a giant. He is the defender of the little guy...and, yes, sometimes the little guy is himself; so what?

He knows that Chuck disapproves of his tactics, but he had not realized the depth of his brother's contempt for him and what he represents. Yet, even with that, the good side of Jimmy's nature pulled through for a bit. He gave Chuck provisions that would last for a little while, at least until Chuck could make other arrangements. Because that is the kind of guy that he is.

[haydensterling]

Yay Jimmy thread!  Hopefully episode threads will be a bit cleaner and we can discuss to our heart's content here!

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I so love this character.

 

I fall on the side of "leopards not changing spots" in the divide.  I think this fits a central/core tenet of VG's - you dare not break bad, even a little, else you get snared into traps you refuse to imagine.  After all, you are a good person, right?  

 

Since we have seen Chuck's lousy morality, it is no stretch to believe they were raised in a loose environment, morally speaking.  My belief is that each brother was prone to lean towards "survival" over inconvenient consciences.

 

Jimmy, I am entirely confident in saying, was not, in his core, an evil man.  I've seen far too many kindnesses to believe such.  However, the man went real, real, dark.

 

This brings up another interesting question:  How much of a difference does the genesis of evil matter once it is loosed?   It still must be squashed, right?

 

Anyway, I hope we can have some great exchanges in here as we await another season of VG wonder.

[SignGuy]

Genesis of evil. Interesting.

We are talking about Jimmy's hairstyle, yes?

[editorgrrl]

In "Hero," we joined Slippin' Jimmy and Marco conning some drunk guy already in progress. In "Marco," we saw them use people's greediness against them. (Kind of like the UK series Hustle.) And Jimmy has a moral code—never con a regular. In another thread, I compared Nacho robbing bad guys to Robin Hood stealing from the rich to give to the poor, and someone rightly pointed out that Nacho steals from criminals because they can't call the cops. It's also true that Jimmy's not conning a regular has a practical component. 

 

I am not saying that Jimmy's a good guy. There's a continuum, and few of us are all good or all bad. I love how this show explores that.

[PrincessSteel]

I am willing to admit that my affection for the character may be skewing my memory, but I never thought of Saul in BrBa as a bad guy. He dances on the very slimmest edge of the law, sure, but he also becomes Captain Euphemism when the more brutal stuff is in play: Old Yeller Situation, Belize. At the end of Season One, I don't see Jimmy as Saul. Yet. But he has turned his back on practicing straight law and is driving directly towards that gleefully gaudy office in the strip mall and the Easter egg hued wardrobe of his dreams.

[haydensterling]

I always loved the idea that you can't con an honest man.  Jimmy (at this stage in the game, anyhow) has only taken advantage of people who are scummy enough to get scammed, and I'm more than okay with that.  There is something inherently appealing about the idea of the good bad guy or the morally gray hero--look at any film noir or straight up crime picture from the thirties onward and there's a rich history for this kind of character--they've certainly long been my favorites.  
My biggest hope is that we'll see some kind of real friend for Jimmy/Saul; oddly enough I'm not sure that person is going to be Mike, though I wouldn't mind it being Mike. Mike has a set of rules and a code, but the end of this season makes me wonder if Jimmy is overly concerned with that sort of thing right now.
 

This website has proven to be pretty interesting in terms of the legality of what Jimmy does in each episode so far, I like it quite a bit.  http://www.legalethicsforum.com/blog/2015/03/the-ethics-of-saul-goodman-episodes-1-and-2-uno-and-mijo.html

[Ronin Jackson]

I'd read an article that Jimmy had completed 98% of his transformation to Saul in this season, and it questioned where the series had to go from here. I recently rewatched the episode "Better Call Saul" in season 2 of Breaking Bad where Saul was introduced... and Jimmy has a LONG way to go before he becomes Saul. He's going to have to not only learn the ins and outs of the criminal underworld, his ethics are going to have to take a slide to a point far beyond anything we've seen from him, even in his Slippin' Jimmy heyday. There's plenty of material there.

[Captain I0]

In "Hero," we joined Slippin' Jimmy and Marco conning some drunk guy already in progress. In "Marco," we saw them use people's greediness against them. (Kind of like the UK series Hustle.) And Jimmy has a moral code—never con a regular. In another thread, I compared Nacho robbing bad guys to Robin Hood stealing from the rich to give to the poor, and someone rightly pointed out that Nacho steals from criminals because they can't call the cops. It's also true that Jimmy's not conning a regular has a practical component. 

es that.

That has nothing to do with a moral code. You don't con people that you are going to run into again, so you avoid getting caught. Jimmy asked if that guy was a regular because if he was:

A) He likely would already know Marco was a con-artist and be harder to fool.

B) If they successfully were able to con him, he knows where to find them once he figures out he was scammed.

[Captain I0]

I am willing to admit that my affection for the character may be skewing my memory, but I never thought of Saul in BrBa as a bad guy. He dances on the very slimmest edge of the law, sure, but he also becomes Captain Euphemism when the more brutal stuff is in play: Old Yeller Situation, Belize. At the end of Season One, I don't see Jimmy as Saul. Yet. But he has turned his back on practicing straight law and is driving directly towards that gleefully gaudy office in the strip mall and the Easter egg hued wardrobe of his dreams.

I don't think of Saul as a super "bad guy", but as I pointed out in a few episode threads, this just isn't true. Saul, in BB is a criminal and saying he works on the edge of the law is a complete whitewash of the character. We don't even very often see him do any actual "lawyer-stuff".

 

He launders money. He sends thugs to intimidate people. He arranges meetings and introduces criminals to each other for drug deals. He steals (the ricin cigarette). He arranges for someone to obstruct justice by going to jail in place of Walt for money. He illegally wiretaps and stalks people....need I go on?

 

I like him. I think he's pretty loyal, as far as criminals go and certainly in comparison to Walt, who we see him interact with most, he seems like a "good" guy. But the idea that he's just a lawyer operating on the fringe of legality is hilariously off-base. Breaking Bad's Saul Goodman is barely a lawyer and mostly a criminal.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Captain I0

[editorgrrl]

From the "Marco" episode thread:

Jimmy doesn't have to be reduced to A or B. He's the complex lead of the show.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

B) If they successfully were able to con him, he knows where to find them once he figures out he was scammed.

A non-regular could still just come back or check around and find them. But, it does mean that it's worth trying to figure out if he's just passing through and won't be around long enough to do that.

[haydensterling]

Breaking Bad's Saul Goodman is barely a lawyer and mostly a criminal.

 

This isn't Breaking Bad, however, and he's not Saul yet.

[ShadowFacts]

Saul was for me mostly comic relief, a funny and entertaining counterpoint to the dourness of Walt.  But I could clearly see he was more than a sleazy lawyer, he was engaged in criminal activity himself.  As  Jimmy, I do like him as a complex person and for all the good things he has done.  And they are many.  In fact I would say he is mostly good, whereas Saul was mostly pretty bad.  I am therefore interested in watching the devolution. The whole point of the show I guess.

[haydensterling]

It looks like there are some here who have what feels to me like a very one-note take w/r/t Jimmy's character.  I have a tough time with this, because I see Vince Gilligan as a nuanced writer, to say the least, and the way Bob Odenkirk is acting the part is very layer-y, like, layer cake even.  A good man at heart (is that another reason he might end up choosing the name?  If no one else thinks of him as one, he'll call himself Goodman?  Eh?  You like my cornpone theorizing?) who ends up doing some bad things.  

 

So if any of you lot are here, could you take the time to explain your point of view a bit further to me?  It seems that that would make VG kind of a bad writer, and Odie a bad actor.

 

Forgive the "Odie".  I saw it used on tumblr the other day and I can't shake it.

[Ronin Jackson]

I was watching Saul clips from BB and he was funny but also unkind and really crude towards women a lot of the time. I'd forgotten that as it's been awhile since I've seen BB. 

 

That was the thing that struck me most about rewatching the Saul introduction episode in Season 2 of Breaking Bad, particularly in light of some of Odenkirk's comments about the character in a recent interview. Saul was very different than Jimmy in that episode, and it seems as though the direction it's headed is not so much Jimmy turning into Saul, but Jimmy creating the persona that is Saul. We see the seeds of that in his theatrics, him getting himself psyched up with "It's Showtime", the "Network" rant in the HHM conference room, the bingo games, the billboard stunt, the con games... Jimmy has a predilection for performance. But the one moment in that Breaking Bad episode where Saul doesn't need to be performing was when his secretary is walking away and he asks if he can follow her home, and with him essentially alone, he comments about her "bootay". We see some hints of that when he's chatting with Jamie Luner in the bar in the second episode, and with the "Kevin Costner" ruse, but it does seem like a departure for Jimmy.

 

Granted when they wrote that first Breaking Bad episode, they had no idea they'd eventually be doing a show with this McGill character they cooked up as the lead and what they'd need to do with him to make him compelling. They've created a Jimmy McGill who is far more empathetic than the sleazeball who is hitting on his secretary. But that moment is still on record.

 

The transition to Saul could happen quicker and make more sense if he is indeed a persona that Jimmy McGill is essentially performing as. I imagine that could eventually lead to some identity crisis issues, where Jimmy spends so much time "acting" as Saul, that he sort of becomes him. Sort of like he "became" Kevin Costner when he was picking up those women.

[ghoulina]

The transition to Saul could happen quicker and make more sense if he is indeed a persona that Jimmy McGill is essentially performing as. I imagine that could eventually lead to some identity crisis issues, where Jimmy spends so much time "acting" as Saul, that he sort of becomes him. Sort of like he "became" Kevin Costner when he was picking up those women.

 

I've been thinking a lot lately about Saul being a character, and Jimmy performing. But you taking it further to say he blurs the lines too much and eventually just becomes Saul is really interesting - kind of like pathological liars who believe their own lies. 

[ghoulina]

So I've got my husband watching this. We binge watched over the weekend and only have 2 episodes left. It's scaring me how in tune Mr. Ghoulina is with Jimmy. He's been two steps ahead of him every time, and Mike too for that matter. What does that say about him??? LOL

 

I'm nervous, though, because he also really likes Chuck. And he keeps remarking how he hopes Chuck can help Jimmy win a big case (Sandpiper). My heart is going to break when we watch the next episode and he realizes that Chuck never had Jimmy's best interest at heart. 

[ElDosEquis]

I love all the suppositioning about the change of JM to SJ, back to JM then on to SG when the writers haven't even written the evolution yet.

 

Or as my dad would tell us when we asked where we were going?

 

"Get in and find out."

 

He had an idea of where we were going, but no idea how we would get there. Same idea here.

[Umbelina]

He broke my heart at the end of last season.  SO good.

 

Where are the 1st season episode threads?  I'm watching the marathon.  Oops, found them, "past seasons."

Edited February 16, 2016 by Umbelina

[Chaos Theory]

I've been thinking a lot lately about Saul being a character, and Jimmy performing. But you taking it further to say he blurs the lines too much and eventually just becomes Saul is really interesting - kind of like pathological liars who believe their own lies.

I think you have it backwards. I think Saul is who he really is and Jimmy "The upstanding lawyer" was him performing.

[PrincessSteel]

Odenkirk is killing me. Not a wrong note and we're well into Season 2. This is the second slam dunk for Gilligan & Co, and part of their collective genius is casting comic actors in dramatic roles. It worked in BrBa, too; most of us knew Cranston as a goofy dad and/or weirdo dentist before he embodied Heisenberg. 'Dying is easy. Comedy is hard.'

[Eyes High]

Jimmy, I am entirely confident in saying, was not, in his core, an evil man.  I've seen far too many kindnesses to believe such.  However, the man went real, real, dark.

 

I think Saul's limit was poisoning a child, which is admittedly an extremely low bar, but at least he does have a limit. From the moment we met Saul in 2x08 of BB, though, he was encouraging preemptive murder as a problem-solving method (suggesting that Walt and Jesse have Badger murdered to prevent him from talking), and that stayed fairly consistent (he suggested the same with Hank and Jesse later on). It says something about Saul that even though he was genuinely horrified at Walt poisoning Brock, he would think nothing of suggesting murder as a solution. Saul threw out several suggestions over the run of BB that even Walt blanched at ("'Send him to Belize'! I'll send you to Belize!"), which says a lot as well.

 

It's hard to see Saul circa BB as an out and out bad guy, since for all his sleaze, there is something eminently charismatic, charming and even likable about him, something that BCS has captured and focused on in Jimmy. Still, the fact that he isn't an openly violent or malevolent person himself shouldn't fool you; he's just as dangerous and vicious in his way as Tuco.

 

I think you have it backwards. I think Saul is who he really is and Jimmy "The upstanding lawyer" was him performing.

I think this is it in a nutshell. The conflict in BCS seems to be arising from Jimmy fighting his true nature and putting on a show for Chuck and for Kim. 

 

Jimmy in BCS seems to be conflicted and miserable, constantly telling people and himself that he's not in the game, that he's a morally upstanding type, that his illegal actions are a one-off never to be repeated, and that he's not how people see him. He's happiest when he's letting go and letting "Saul," the fast-talking, thrill-seeking, amoral scumbag, out to play; that's why Jimmy was so excited at the idea of bringing Kim in on a con, and so depressed when she lacked interest in repeating it. He wanted to drop the mask with her so desperately and be himself; it was when he realized he couldn't that he went trudging back to the morally upright side of things.

 

Say what you will about Saul circa BB, but he does not appear to be conflicted or miserable about how others perceive him or his place in the world in the slightest; he might be a piece of shit, but he's a liberated piece of shit. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Eyes High

[rue721]

Here's an interesting factoid from a Principles of Fraud Examination textbook (Wells 19), that I thought might apply in an interesting way to Jimmy, as he becomes a criminal lawyer:

Quote

Without the rationalization that they are borrowing, long-term offenders in the study found it difficult to reconcile stealing money with seeing themselves as honest and trustworthy. In such a situation, long-term offenders have two options:  (1) they can readopt the attitudes of the (law-abiding) social group with which they identified with before the thefts began; or (2) they can adopt the attitudes of the new category of persons (criminals) with whom they now identify.

[PeterPirate]

Another pretty good psychological analysis from the person who described Kim's "reaction formation".  

 

He ends the video with a quote from Carl Jung.  The part about Jimmy being "extremely susceptible and open to influence" explains why he has been so willing to help Kim with her crazy plot to bring down Howard. 

[PeterPirate]

From the Speculation thread:

Quote

You don't have to worry about a 6 week gut wrenching cliffhanger.

Episode 8 airs on July 11th. 7 weeks from now.

I'm not a religious person, but this made me think of a passage from the Old Testament.  Call me sanctimonious but I think this fits Jimmy perfectly.

Proverbs 6:16-19  

These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
 

[Cinnabon]

11 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

From the Speculation thread:

I'm not a religious person, but this made me think of a passage from the Old Testament.  Call me sanctimonious but I think this fits Jimmy perfectly.

Proverbs 6:16-19  

These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
 

It fits far too many people these days 😢. 

[Razzberry]

I love this scene from BB when Saul meets Skyler.  His oily charms apparently didn't work for her.

[PeterPirate]

Another good psychological analysis of Jimmy, and Chuck as well.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Has it been revealed if Kim was Jimmy’s first or second wife AND did Jimmy ever have a step father?  

[scenario]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Has it been revealed if Kim was Jimmy’s first or second wife AND did Jimmy ever have a step father?  

I don't remember the details but when Kim and Jimmy were getting married he mentioned he'd been married before. 

In a flashback they showed Jimmy and Chuck waiting at his mother's bedside as she was dying, they were the only ones there. If his mom remarried, he was out of the picture by then. 

[Lalo Lives]

I think Saul simply adapted to the circumstances.

If he’s dining with a bunch of cowboys, he’ll say: “He’ll YES, I want 2 shots of rye and a 48 oz rare ribeye, 2 pounds of bacon, and a can of dip.” for breakfast.

With a bunch of lefty tree huggers he’ll have “2 teaspoons of oats, raw, an almond, and a half liter of soy water in a sustainable recycled non-plastic container.”

A bunch of old ladies: “A glass of cold whole milk and 6 home-made chocolate fudge cookies, warm, fresh out of the oven.”

So dealing with METH DEALERS, he’s gotta talk tough. Bumping people off? That’s nuthin. It’s part of doin business! 
It is his way of ingratiating himself with his audience.

He’s a chameleon.

[SunnyBeBe]

6 minutes ago, Lalo Lives said:

I think Saul simply adapted to the circumstances.

If he’s dining with a bunch of cowboys, he’ll say: “He’ll YES, I want 2 shots of rye and a 48 oz rare ribeye, 2 pounds of bacon, and a can of dip.” for breakfast.

With a bunch of lefty tree huggers he’ll have “2 teaspoons of oats, raw, an almond, and a half liter of soy water in a sustainable recycled non-plastic container.”

A bunch of old ladies: “A glass of cold whole milk and 6 home-made chocolate fudge cookies, warm, fresh out of the oven.”

So dealing with METH DEALERS, he’s gotta talk tough. Bumping people off? That’s nuthin. It’s part of doin business! 
It is his way of ingratiating himself with his audience.

He’s a chameleon.

So, I can see why he told Walt that he discovered his  second wife had slept with his step father.  Walt was furious about Skyler and Ted.  I guess he was trying to relate to Walt and downplay Walt’s situation.

[PeterPirate]

I can well imagine that Mrs. McGill fell for a smooth-talking creep sometime after the death of Mr. McGill.  The brothers will still young when the father died.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

I can well imagine that Mrs. McGill fell for a smooth-talking creep sometime after the death of Mr. McGill.  The brothers will still young when the father died.

Yeah, but Jimmy wouldn’t have a second wife then, right?  Assuming Kim was wife 2.  

[PeterPirate]

26 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, but Jimmy wouldn’t have a second wife then, right?  Assuming Kim was wife 2.  

Jimmy presented documentation for "two previous dissolutions" when he and Kim got married.  Kim was wife number 3.  

[Lalo Lives]

On Insider Podcast the PTB were discussing loose ends, unresolved plot points, etc.

Schnauz intimated that they did not or COULD not address each one. Not every fire needs to be put out.

I had thought about going through this entire forum and try to find EVERY so far unchecked box. But then I had a better idea: get a life!

I’m still curious if Jimmy’s “Lalo” slip will mean anything. Will Wendy be instrumental to Kim’s downfall. The birthday phone call? Anything there? 

The diamonds? Will they be used?

Will Marion be the late introduction who affects the man in character—like Uncle Jack did with Walt?

Will Kim be the Jesse to Jimmy’s Walt?

Will someone be shot at Taco Cabeza?

These are just off the top of my 2nd cup of coffee induced brain flicker. I am certain there are MANY MANY MANY bigger and better and more important points. I’m just not doing the research, although it would be fun and interesting.

I don’t think we’ll get a Disney ending. Jimmy’s sad face of dismay will be the last thing we see.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Lalo Lives
Spelling….we’re and were. And I’m stupid

[Lalo Lives]

Post script:

I will indeed MURDER the tech monkey who INSISTS that every electronic device I own will auto-correct to “we’re” instead of “were.”

I’ve wasted 32 months of my life fixing that damned error.

[Constantinople]

In Nippy, Gene is drinking coffee at 9:45 at night. That's not a plot hole, but it suggests that Gene is either a night owl, doesn't work on Mondays or has a high tolerance for caffeine.

[Starchild]

3 hours ago, Constantinople said:

In Nippy, Gene is drinking coffee at 9:45 at night. That's not a plot hole, but it suggests that Gene is either a night owl, doesn't work on Mondays or has a high tolerance for caffeine.

Probably the last one, since the vet's drug didn't affect him, apart from the eyes.

[gallimaufry]

6 hours ago, Lalo Lives said:

On Insider Podcast the PTB were discussing loose ends, unresolved plot points, etc.

Schnauz intimated that they did not or COULD not address each one. Not every fire needs to be put out.

I have mixed feelings about this.  On the one hand, there are absolutely loads of little details that really don't need addressing and actually they've played more than fair with resolving a lot of these.  I love the Kettlemans but S6 didn't need them back - it just added an extra flavour.  We certainly didn't need to see the construction of the Superlab in the depth that we did but the payoff with Lalo and Howard (which I doubt they anticipated early on) was appreciated.  

Heck, tying in Lalo and Nacho was a risk and in some respects I think they ended up contorting their show around it - there's a perhaps more tonally consistent version of this show where Mike is a recurring guest star in one of the later seasons, the cartel has a short but powerful storyline and the centre of gravity of the show is the ABQ legal community and the small time crook world of people like the Kettlemans, Huell, the vet and Ira.

On the other hand, purely because they've gone to town to check every box, it does create a weight of expectation that the big things will be addressed.

And by and large they have.  We know pretty well how Jimmy becomes Saul although I'm still not convinced that as of the end of 609, he's quite as murder-happy as he later becomes.  We see how Mike gets where he gets.  I think there are questions about the final destinations of Jimmy, Kim and Kayleigh which I still expect them to pay off.

I think there are some questions I'd have liked them to have raised but I don't mind that they didn't.  Mike's wife would have been a really interesting thing to explore.  There's so much about Kim that is open and while I think it just about works, I still think they didn't quite paper over her character jump in 510 to the point where it felt earned.

However, there are still some big "fires" on the table, especially with regard to Gus.

In BB, we learned that Gus was a Chilean national whose identity is hidden but was once a very important figure.  We know that he made a deal with the cartel to make meth but planned revenge after his lover was assassinated.  We know that he carefully cultivated his relationships in the local community, hiding in plain sight as a charity donor and owner of a fast food franchise, and was doing international deals through Madrigal Electromotive.  We saw him cultivate a full and brilliant revenge against the cartel and especially Hector, whom he despised most of all.  We know Mike and his people were exceedingly loyal to him and he managed to construct a superlab under a laundry in secret.  We know that he likes fine food although he can't always have it because of his kids who are unseen.

In BCS, we learned that he once tortured a coati, likes wine and has a close personal relationship with Peter Schuler.  We've seen some of the nuts and bolts of how he relationship with Mike and the cartel started out and how the superlab was constructed.

I mean, I'm probably slightly overexaggerating but the difference in the extent to which we've got to know this character is... profound.  He's made significantly more appearances in BCS and yet we really haven't learned anything significant that isn't an elucidation of something we essentially already knew.  As much as I love the show, I feel like Gus is the absolute weakest link of it and a spectacular missed opportunity.

6 hours ago, Lalo Lives said:

I had thought about going through this entire forum and try to find EVERY so far unchecked box. But then I had a better idea: get a life!

I’m still curious if Jimmy’s “Lalo” slip will mean anything. Will Wendy be instrumental to Kim’s downfall. The birthday phone call? Anything there? 

The diamonds? Will they be used?

Will Marion be the late introduction who affects the man in character—like Uncle Jack did with Walt?

Will Kim be the Jesse to Jimmy’s Walt?

Will someone be shot at Taco Cabeza?

I'm not sure if the "Lalo" slip needed to have a deeper payoff - it's one of those things that could have gone somewhere but it worked in its own right.  The Wendy thing was a way to make Kim aware of Mike.  Obviously both of these could have had separate purposes.

The diamonds have to come back, I think; so too the phone call.  These are this show's machine gun.

As for Marion, I agree that she will almost certainly have a further role (although again the plot could work if the whole Jeffy run was just to show Jimmy that he can't and doesn't want to escape the shadow of Saul).  Interesting you talk about her being introduced late on - I do think this is one of the odd things about the show's structure.  Usually you wouldn't expect anyone significant to be introduced in the show's concluding run which perhaps suggests she won't continue to be significant.  And she's introduced a lot later than Uncle Jack.  Jack appeared in 508, nine episodes before the end, and was mentioned previously (507 at least).

(Actually, I have a theory that BB was meant to go six years and AMC were getting cold feet because of the ratings so they compromised on two eight-episode runs -- and then, I'm sure, regretted it.  I'm sure I've seen Bryan Cranston say he would have liked to do six seasons and if you watch the show back, it feels like S3-S4 (the "Gus years") are the second act and then the third act is quite a bit shorter with 5A feeling especially truncated.  I feel like there's a version of S5 where Jack feels like a bigger player from earlier although with Gilligan's brick-by-brick approach, they might not have realised how significant he'd be to the final stretch.  I feel like they must have done though, in instinct if not in specifics, since he was the show's nastiest remaining villain and the whole Heisenberg/Nazi imagery made him the perfect foil for Walt.)

[Lalo Lives]

12 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

I have mixed feelings about this.  On the one hand, there are absolutely loads of little details that really don't need addressing and actually they've played more than fair with resolving a lot of these.  I love the Kettlemans but S6 didn't need them back - it just added an extra flavour.  We certainly didn't need to see the construction of the Superlab in the depth that we did but the payoff with Lalo and Howard (which I doubt they anticipated early on) was appreciated.  

Heck, tying in Lalo and Nacho was a risk and in some respects I think they ended up contorting their show around it - there's a perhaps more tonally consistent version of this show where Mike is a recurring guest star in one of the later seasons, the cartel has a short but powerful storyline and the centre of gravity of the show is the ABQ legal community and the small time crook world of people like the Kettlemans, Huell, the vet and Ira.

On the other hand, purely because they've gone to town to check every box, it does create a weight of expectation that the big things will be addressed.

And by and large they have.  We know pretty well how Jimmy becomes Saul although I'm still not convinced that as of the end of 609, he's quite as murder-happy as he later becomes.  We see how Mike gets where he gets.  I think there are questions about the final destinations of Jimmy, Kim and Kayleigh which I still expect them to pay off.

I think there are some questions I'd have liked them to have raised but I don't mind that they didn't.  Mike's wife would have been a really interesting thing to explore.  There's so much about Kim that is open and while I think it just about works, I still think they didn't quite paper over her character jump in 510 to the point where it felt earned.

However, there are still some big "fires" on the table, especially with regard to Gus.

In BB, we learned that Gus was a Chilean national whose identity is hidden but was once a very important figure.  We know that he made a deal with the cartel to make meth but planned revenge after his lover was assassinated.  We know that he carefully cultivated his relationships in the local community, hiding in plain sight as a charity donor and owner of a fast food franchise, and was doing international deals through Madrigal Electromotive.  We saw him cultivate a full and brilliant revenge against the cartel and especially Hector, whom he despised most of all.  We know Mike and his people were exceedingly loyal to him and he managed to construct a superlab under a laundry in secret.  We know that he likes fine food although he can't always have it because of his kids who are unseen.

In BCS, we learned that he once tortured a coati, likes wine and has a close personal relationship with Peter Schuler.  We've seen some of the nuts and bolts of how he relationship with Mike and the cartel started out and how the superlab was constructed.

I mean, I'm probably slightly overexaggerating but the difference in the extent to which we've got to know this character is... profound.  He's made significantly more appearances in BCS and yet we really haven't learned anything significant that isn't an elucidation of something we essentially already knew.  As much as I love the show, I feel like Gus is the absolute weakest link of it and a spectacular missed opportunity.

I'm not sure if the "Lalo" slip needed to have a deeper payoff - it's one of those things that could have gone somewhere but it worked in its own right.  The Wendy thing was a way to make Kim aware of Mike.  Obviously both of these could have had separate purposes.

The diamonds have to come back, I think; so too the phone call.  These are this show's machine gun.

As for Marion, I agree that she will almost certainly have a further role (although again the plot could work if the whole Jeffy run was just to show Jimmy that he can't and doesn't want to escape the shadow of Saul).  Interesting you talk about her being introduced late on - I do think this is one of the odd things about the show's structure.  Usually you wouldn't expect anyone significant to be introduced in the show's concluding run which perhaps suggests she won't continue to be significant.  And she's introduced a lot later than Uncle Jack.  Jack appeared in 508, nine episodes before the end, and was mentioned previously (507 at least).

(Actually, I have a theory that BB was meant to go six years and AMC were getting cold feet because of the ratings so they compromised on two eight-episode runs -- and then, I'm sure, regretted it.  I'm sure I've seen Bryan Cranston say he would have liked to do six seasons and if you watch the show back, it feels like S3-S4 (the "Gus years") are the second act and then the third act is quite a bit shorter with 5A feeling especially truncated.  I feel like there's a version of S5 where Jack feels like a bigger player from earlier although with Gilligan's brick-by-brick approach, they might not have realised how significant he'd be to the final stretch.  I feel like they must have done though, in instinct if not in specifics, since he was the show's nastiest remaining villain and the whole Heisenberg/Nazi imagery made him the perfect foil for Walt.)

Too much for me to address, but all quality things to consider. I forgot about the Chile angle with Gus.

My perception with Uncle Jack was he came in around 3 eps before the end. My memory? Bad.

But yes, we know a lot, and so little, about Gus.

[Cinnabon]

8 hours ago, Lalo Lives said:

Post script:

I will indeed MURDER the tech monkey who INSISTS that every electronic device I own will auto-correct to “we’re” instead of “were.”

I’ve wasted 32 months of my life fixing that damned error.

Thank you for being someone who bothers to fix it. 

[Kip Hackman]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:33 AM, Constantinople said:

In Nippy, Gene is drinking coffee at 9:45 at night. That's not a plot hole, but it suggests that Gene is either a night owl, doesn't work on Mondays or has a high tolerance for caffeine.

Or drinks decaf.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 8/2/2022 at 4:16 PM, Kip Hackman said:

Or drinks decaf.

I can’t recall if it was an old episode of BB (just did a rewatch) or a previous episode of BCS, but Jimmy tells someone who came into in office that he was just getting ready to fix himself a Nescafé!  Just the way he said it cracked me up,  lol 

[SimplexFish]

11 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I can’t recall if it was an old episode of BB (just did a rewatch) or a previous episode of BCS, but Jimmy tells someone who came into in office that he was just getting ready to fix himself a Nescafé!  Just the way he said it cracked me up,  lol 

[Lalo Lives]

Fresca!

Hard for a man to say that one without getting looks.

[Spartan Girl]

When this show began, we all assumed Gene was nothing more than broken shell of Jimmy McGill and Saul Goodman—a timid and shriveled husk of a man, doomed to live the rest of his life in fear.

Not once did we imagine that he would turn out to be the worst of Jimmy’s personas. Well played, Vince.