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S03.E10: Stingers


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Ho. Lee. SHIT!

I wasn't expecting this disclosure to happen just yet. I'm not even certain when I expected it to occur, but I certainly didn't think tonight's episode would be the time. Wow. Paige has a whole new weight on her.

I'm curious how Elizabeth will try to move forward in this pursuit of having Paige join the cause. She has to back off a bit, yeah? It's all too much for Paige to deal with and there's a risk of backlash if Elizabeth tries to push her agenda. Paige is smart and stubborn...like her mom.

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Well, consider that Band-Aid ripped off. Should be interesting how they play this the rest of the season. They can't keep worrying if she'll rat them out and they can't really include her on their wacky adventures yet. Maybe there's a KGB boarding school they can ship her off to.

 

'80s Music Moment: Adam & the Ants "Stand and Deliver" at the frat party.

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(edited)

Yeah...

 

I just don't buy it.  For the first time I just can't fan-wank myself into believing this episode, or that any parent would drop a bombshell like that on a hormonal teenager, and then just leave her alone all day.  Aside from the fact that she actually knows an FBI agent, and she's ridiculously close to her pastor, and telling anyone would blow their operation sky high, and land both kids in protective custody and them in jail?  What about her emotional state? 

 

I love this show to pieces, but, nope.  This absolutely didn't do it for me.

Edited by Umbelina
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Well gotDAMN. I thought last week the show was treading water. No clear direction on Martha, or Zenaida, or anything. So...I guess this episode makes up for it.

 

I nearly fell out of my chair with the Paige scene. And our Milky Way-lover is a spy. Who's alerted the Rezidentura and the Center that someone (Oleg) paid her a visit. And Stan has finally figured out his own subconsious suspicions about Martha.

 

...after all that, and they don't tell her to recruit her, but because her long-held suspicions forced the issue.

 

Wow.

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(edited)

Well damn! That happened.

I am surprised P&E told Paige the truth. The scene was brilliant though. And Yes Paige when your parents tell you they are Russian spies you get a sick day.

Henry is going to make a brilliant spy. He can sneak out of the house, has dead drops, and knows how to work a mark.

Does Stan suspect Martha of planting the bug?

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Did anyone find the post-confession phone call with Pastor Tim a bit... Strange? I am thinking Paige has some kind of relationship with him and wanted leverage on her parents so she could do whatever she wanted. The whole thing was just came off so odd and did not really address what we just saw.

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So, that happened...

 

That last 30 minutes was amazing.  The revelation didn't disappoint and it was incredibly well-acted by all three of them.  Philip and Elizabeth were clearly unnerved although I would have to think it was partially a relief to finally be honest with their daughter.  Be interesting to see where things go from here.  The show is definitely not treading water anymore.

 

Great final visual of Phillip sharpening the knife.

 

The rest of the episode was good too.  Looks like Stan has finally woken the hell up.  Pastor Tim likes to poke the bear, doesn't he?  Lot of 80s references/movies in this one, including Henry doing Eddie Murphy's old Mister Robinson impersonation.

Edited by benteen
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Yeah...

 

I just don't buy it.  For the first time I just can't fan-wank myself into believing this episode, or that any parent would drop a bombshell like that on a hormonal teenager, and then just leave her alone all day.  Aside from the fact that she actually knows an FBI agent, and she's ridiculously close to her pastor, and telling anyone would blow their operation sky high, and land both kids in protective custody and them in jail?  What about her emotional state? 

 

I love this show to pieces, but, nope.  This absolutely didn't do it for me.

 

I'm maybe a year older than Paige's age. There's no way in heck I am going to believe a girl raised in America at the time Paige has been is going to calmly accept that her parents are betraying the country she was born in. I was personally scared to death of the Russian - thanks in large part to my mother who screamed in the middle of the living room that Reagan was going to get us all blown up when he was elected in 1980.  (Not exactly the thing to say in front of an anxiety riddled child. I lay awake many a night listening for the sirens and its the reason I don't react to politics in front of my kids in an over the top manner) 

 

I'm not saying the show has jumped the shark, but I think Fonzie is waxing up his water skis. 

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(edited)

I'm maybe a year older than Paige's age. There's no way in heck I am going to believe a girl raised in America at the time Paige has been is going to calmly accept that her parents are betraying the country she was born in. I was personally scared to death of the Russian - thanks in large part to my mother who screamed in the middle of the living room that Reagan was going to get us all blown up when he was elected in 1980.  (Not exactly the thing to say in front of an anxiety riddled child. I lay awake many a night listening for the sirens and its the reason I don't react to politics in front of my kids in an over the top manner) 

 

I'm not saying the show has jumped the shark, but I think Fonzie is waxing up his water skis. 

I think the calm is shock. Those are not the same thing. It has been less than 24 hours at this point. She is digesting the info before taking any action. I was born in 1970. I wasn't a fan of the USSR, but I wasn't terrified of Russians. I was actually kind of fascinated by them.

Edited by JennyMominFL
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Poor Paige. I really felt for her in this one. Wonderful performance by Holly.

I was thinking that Pastor Buttinski's curiosity about the Jennings family was going to get him killed, but now he's protected by Paige's knowledge.

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(edited)

Did anyone find the post-confession phone call with Pastor Tim a bit... Strange? I am thinking Paige has some kind of relationship with him and wanted leverage on her parents so she could do whatever she wanted. The whole thing was just came off so odd and did not really address what we just saw.

I thought she planned to tell him her parents were spies ,but couldn't go through with it 

Edited by JennyMominFL
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I think the calm is shock. Those are not the same thing. It has been less than 4 hours at this point. She is digesting the info before taking any action. I was born in 1970. I wasn't a fan of the USSR, but I wasn't terrified of Russians I was actually kind of fascinated with them.

It's been closer to 24 hours.

 

You may be right about shock, but then WHY LEAVE HER ALONE ALL DAY? 

 

This one is really bugging me.

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It's been closer to 24 hours.

 

You may be right about shock, but then WHY LEAVE HER ALONE ALL DAY? 

 

This one is really bugging me.

 

Maybe on some level there was a little bit of relief on the Jennings part and they would have been okay with the consequences.  On some level.

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(edited)

It's been closer to 24 hours.

 

You may be right about shock, but then WHY LEAVE HER ALONE ALL DAY? 

 

This one is really bugging me.

That was supposed to say 24 hours. Don't know where my 2 went. I agree about leaving her alone. I half expected them to park down the street and watch the house

Edited by JennyMominFL
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First of all, if the KGB is going to have their Illegals have kids, they better have a freaking SOP on how to answer Paige's question. A procedure that is not sketched on a napkin but developed in a real-life research institute and run through dozens of focus groups. Because there is no way these valuable agents should be put in a position where they have to improvise the answer.

 

Second, if I'm Philip and Elizabeth, the only way I am leaving Paige alone after dropping a bomb like that on her is if I have a GUARANTEE that she will not tell anyone. And such guarantee is simply not possible. So there is simply no way I leave her alone in the house. Impossible. Philip may believe anything he wants about what Paige is going to do, but risking that he is misjudging the situation is just too much. They can't afford that risk if they want to stay hidden. Now, if they don't mind wrapping up their spying, then maybe they can try to trust her, but the show hasn't given us any indication that they think that way.

 

I loved Paige's request for her parents to say something in Russian.

 

I don't know, it seemed weird to me. Why was she asking? Would she even know the difference between Russian and gibberish? Why did Elizabeth oblige?

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So "Willow", huh. I love how the circle goes round: Oleg, Rezidentura, Centre. 

 

Paige sitting there like, "Woah, you're Soviet spies and dad's best friend is the FBI agent who lives next door?" At this point she's thinking she'd have preferred to learn they were Coneheads.

Edited by RedHawk
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Exactly.  Why ASK if if one of them should stay home today?  Just announce it, with or without an excuse.  "I have a bit of a headache, I'm staying home today."  Whatever.

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Why wouldn't Elizabeth obliged?

 

Because she has been trained to refrain from speaking Russian, for example. Because there is no good reason to oblige. What purpose does it serve to oblige? It's not going to prove anything to Paige anyway.

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I think Philip and Elizabeth speaking in Russian and leaving her alone were choices they made to show Paige they trusted her. Somewhere in their training this is what you do. I was really feeling Paige's shock and bewilderment. I don't believe she's thinking the Russians are "the Evil Empire". This is still early enough in '83 that there's not full-blown "the Ruskies are going to nuke the world" hysteria going on in the media. "Red Dawn" and "The Day After" films still had not come out. She's just amazed that there IS something to all her suspicions and that it's BIG and serious and, yes, just maybe her parents have done some bad things.

Edited by RedHawk
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(edited)

I think Philip and Elizabeth speaking in Russian and leaving her alone were choices they made to show Paige they trusted her. Somewhere in their training this is what you do. I was really feeling Paige's shock and bewilderment. I don't believe she's thinking the Russian's are "the Evil Empire". This is still early enough in the '83 that there's not full-blown "the Ruskies are going to nuke the world" hysteria going on in the media. "Red Dawn" and "The Day After" films still had not come out. She's just amazed that there IS something to all her suspicions and that it's BIG and serious and, yes, just maybe her parents have done some bad things.

War Games had though, and that scared the crap out of my generation. ETA, that came out in June of 83. I'm not sure what month this is supposed to be.

Edited by JennyMominFL
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I don't know, it seemed weird to me. Why was she asking? Would she even know the difference between Russian and gibberish? Why did Elizabeth oblige?

 

 

I think it was, to her, something that would just make it true. Doesn't matter if she'd understand it. That's how her parents "really" talk and she wants to hear it. It's not like it would bother them in that moment, except that it might make them feel even more naked or something. Not surprised at Elizabeth's words and that they had her say that and then need Philip to translate it--there's a little symbolism there.

 

In the pause I couldn't help but think they were like any bilingual person when asked that question: Oh, you speak X? Say something in X? "Um..." mind goes blank. "The boy wears a red sweater? I don't know what to say!"

 

Totally unsurprised that for all her preparations Elizabeth needed Philip to take the first step. Probably in part to make sure he was on board, but even without that he had to do it. It's totally like Elizabeth to be full steam ahead and then choke when the moment's just too real. Also Philip's responses were a lot more...not truthful, but answers to what Paige was asking. Elizabeth wanted to get into her defense of the USSR and the Cause. Philip was there with the simple facts: we were born in another country. We work for our country getting secrets they can't get otherwise (iow, we're spies).

 

I would have been watching GH too. That was the beginning of the Susan Moore murder story. Which would be followed by the Prometheus disc, a story about the DVX (iow, the KGB) stealing an energy disc. Most shocking reveal was when we learned that kindly Dr. Grant Putnam who up until then had been sort of a sap was...a Russian Illegal!

 

Seriously, the fact that Paige might be watching that storyline right after learning her own parents are Grant Putnam is fantastic.

 

I liked the Kimmie scene--it was nice quickly seeing that there would be no sex.

 

Still hard for me to believe the Paige/Pastor Tim relationship because he so rubs me the wrong way at all times it's hard for me to get into the head of somebody, much less a kid, who thinks he's cool. I can't believe she was really thinking of telling him. Maybe it was supposed to be like Elizabeth telling her mom, where she thought about using "tradecraft" to talk in code or something, but that guy is so not somebody I'd ever want to go to with a problem. His pushing of the Mission Trip was just annoying, acting like it was all about the family bonding.

 

I like that along with being hilarious and Mr. Robinson and a total spy Henry still asks questions that sound dumb but are not: why are they building a school? Paige doesn't know, really. They need schools in Kenya...so why are they buying plane tickets for 20 American kids to do it? Just take that money and give it to local professional builders.

Edited by sistermagpie
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(edited)

So, that happened...

That last 30 minutes was amazing. The revelation didn't disappoint and it was incredibly well-acted by all three of them. Philip and Elizabeth were clearly unnerved although I would have to think it was partially a relief to finally be honest with their daughter. Be interesting to see where things go from here. The show is definitely not treading water anymore.

Great final visual of Phillip sharpening the knife.

The rest of the episode was good too. Looks like Stan has finally woken the hell up. Pastor Tim likes to poke the bear, doesn't he? Lot of 80s references/movies in this one, including Henry doing Eddie Murphy's old Mister Roberts impersonation.

It was Mr. Rogers, not Roberts. You actually typoed the title of a Jack Lemmon movie instead. OK, it was actually a character *based* on Mr. Rogers. Eddie Murphy's version was called Mr. Robinson, from Mister Robinson's Neighborhood (I think).

Edited by BW Manilowe
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Because she has been trained to refrain from speaking Russian, for example. Because there is no good reason to oblige. What purpose does it serve to oblige? It's not going to prove anything to Paige anyway.

 

I don't see an issue with her speaking Russian to Paige.  New circumstance here and she was trying to make what was going on easier for her.

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I'm fascinated by Henry. Was he hoping to go over to Stan's house and find a way to pick up some of Sandra's lingerie that she might've left laying around or something?

Are we to think that he acquired that photo of Sandra by sneaking into Stan's house at some point? Too funny to think of Henry sneaking into the home of an FBI agent! I don't know why his parents don't just tell him right now. He would be like, "Alright, cool! Teach me some spy stuff."

Or possibly we would have a scene where Paige tells him and he barely looks up from his electronic game long enough to say, with a shrug of his shoulders, "Yeah, and?" because he's known for a couple of years already.

Edited by RedHawk
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I thought Keri Russel was impressive with her Russian but I just played her words to my mother and Mama said her accent was "a nightmare".

 

I did appreciate that she added solnushka ("little sun") to it. That was a nice, unexpected touch.

 

Zinaida is BADASS. And I LOVE the Arkady thinks that Oleg's threatening of her was sanctioned, because this is really when the Russian government was becoming a complete mess (they touched on this earlier with the East German Bomber.)

 

I also thought it was slightly hilarious how menacing Philip looked from Paige's POV at the very end while she was staring at Stan. I want her parents to relate to her with real stories about their families. They need to humanize themselves as much as possible to her.

Edited by PinkRibbons
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This board is doing weird things tonight. Is it just me?

No, I think it's being a little weird too. And I've probably already corrected what you were gonna say. I realized my memory lapse as I read further down the thread from the post I was responding to. No harm, no foul.

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Because she has been trained to refrain from speaking Russian, for example. Because there is no good reason to oblige. What purpose does it serve to oblige? It's not going to prove anything to Paige anyway

 

 

I thought the speaking of Russian was a fantastic moment, because it was Elizabeth allowing herself to be vulnerable for the sake of her daughter. Speaking endearments in Russian is very hard for her, and very painful.  I'm always very touched when I realize that, however singleminded and focused on The Mission that Elizabeth might be, she loves her kids pretty fiercely.  Showing that sort of love is easy for Philip, but it's so difficult for Elizabeth that when it finally happens, it's pretty special.  I really loved the fact that *Elizabeth*, not Philip, was the one to speak Russian to Paige.

 

This was a truly great episode, and not only for the Paige bombshell: we now know for a fact that the Russian defector *is* a spy, and we also have Stan starting to suspect Martha.  I'm sure that's going to lead to all kinds of drama next season, and it might end up with Stan finding out about/seeing Clark.  But that's another story for another day.  For now, the Paige story is going to be fascinating in and of itself.  (I adored the wordless communication between Philip and Elizabeth as Paige blurted out her questions.  Those two!)  I thought they handled Paige's reaction just exactly right.  I'm about Paige's age, and I definitely didn't think of the Soviet Union as the evil empire (but then, I was the child of liberal, Reagan-hating democrats).  We worried about World War III, sure, but it was a generalized fear, not one focused on any one particular country.  I think her shutting down at the shock was very reasonable and very much in character.  I also thought that what she was was realizing as she stared at Stan at the end of the episode was the fact that her parents were LYING to this nice guy, pretending to be his friend and possibly using him for political information.  I think it was really her first inkling that, besides being spies, her parents might well be doing immoral things.  I doubt she's thinking of murder yet--she'll be focusing on lying and stealing first--but the time will come when she realizes that they've killed people.  And *that's* going to be a conversation that I really hope we'll get to hear!

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At this point I'm thinking that Henry has 1) found every possible hiding hole in the Jennings' home, 2) discovered the cache of weapons and disguises and everything else hidden in the basement, 3) taught himself to speak Russian via cassette tapes by mail, and 4) been sending coded messages to Arkady at the Rezidentura via that so-called "football game" he's constantly playing.

 

5) in the season finale, will reveal himself to Philip and Elizabeth as their new handler.

 

I don't see an issue with her speaking Russian to Paige.  New circumstance here and she was trying to make what was going on easier for her.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there is an issue. I just don't see a good, rational reason for it. I'll chalk it up to stuff that could happen for no rational reason.

 

I did appreciate that she added solnushka ("little sun") to it. That was a nice, unexpected touch.

 

Oh, is that what she said? The accent really was not that good. I thought she said "Sonechka", which is a diminutive of Sophia. It threw me a little, but I seem to remember, very-very vaguely, that it was discussed a couple years ago that Sophia is Paige's Russian name for some reason. Does anybody remember this?

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Speaking of Mister Robinson's neighborhood (thanks for the reminder as to the proper name of that skit), great line from the AV Club review about that...

 

 

•How great was Henry this episode? Seeing a suburban white kid awkwardly perform “Mr. Robinson’s Neighborhood” is the most true to life event I’ve ever seen the show tackle.

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(edited)

I thought Keri Russel was impressive with her Russian but I just played her words to my mother and Mama said her accent was "a nightmare".

 

I did appreciate that she added solnushka ("little sun") to it. That was a nice, unexpected touch.

 

Zinaida is BADASS.

мы тебя любим

 

That last word "love" is a nightmare for many, a mouthful where you could feel like your tongue is thicker than ever and being forced to french kiss an ant.  LeauBeeM *sorta*

Edited by Umbelina
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Can't wait to see where the Paige storyline goes, love the way it was handled. Phillip taking the phone off the hook...so they wouldn't get a call and have to leave? So Paige couldn't call anyone impulsively? Probably a bit of both, I think. I loved the last scene, the way Paige was framed--separate, observing.

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I also thought it was slightly hilarious how menacing Philip looked from Paige's POV at the very end while she was staring at Stan. I want her parents to relate to her with real stories about their families. They need to humanize themselves as much as possible to her.

 

It might help if they didn't sharpen large knives loudly when saying things like "you know, FBI agent Stan, Paige has become really observant lately".

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(edited)

I really really want Paige to betray her parents. Knowing this show, they probably won't do that, but I'd love to see her confess to Stan, he manages to flip Philip and cut a deal, and they all pull a sting operation on Elizabeth. (I hate Elizabeth).

 

I actually could see her betraying them though, seeing how she's so much closer to Pastor Tim and feels like she has no relationship with them anyway. Plus, I just don't see how they could make a kid like her decide to become loyal to the Soviet Union.

Edited by ruby24
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(edited)

You can't play stratomatic football with two people. It is an awesome game though for people wh follow sports. My brothers used to play it with gangs of friends and become violently upset when the rolls of dice turned against them. Dice flying around was commonplace. When my brother threw the board across the room my mother banned the game. Nice touch. And I also loved that Henry wanted to play it with a real person, going against the tired old cliche of kids preferring electric games to board games with people. In my experience even today children would rather play with others, especially grown-ups, than hang out on the computer.

How will Paige feel when she inevitably learns that in the service of peace around he world Daddy's involved with a girl her own age? Or that they basically prostituted themselves for that cause? Not to mention the dropping a car on an innocent so someone else could get his job (by the way, where did that plot line go?)

P and e are delusional if they think Paige can "just" have a desk job and somehow never learn of their less savory actions.
And while Elizabeth may justify it in her own mind, I don't believe Philip ever would.

 

I'm calling it now: he's going to defect and take the kids, with or without Elizabeth, if not this season than in the future.

Why did stan lie about another woman? That was a stupid lie and easily contradicted.,

Paige sounded like she was leaving a message, not talking to someone, until she paused for an answer. Bad acting there.

I see that Elizabeth thinks passion for a cause can be switched, the way religious people of one faith sometimes convert and are just as religious in another faith, but Elizabeth truly doesn't understand that passion for the church has zero in common with working for peace in a way that justifies killing old ladies, innocents, and having sex to learn facts. Paige ain't ever going to see it that way.

And yes, they should have had a cover story ready all along... Children of people who died in death camps, defectors, witness protection, something. Not that I wanted them to lie now, but the notion that they thought their kids would never wonder why they had no relatives and why freckling travel agents had emergency calls and had to run out is preposterous.

Edited by lucindabelle
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(edited)

I feel like we know Paige well enough to know she's not going to be okay with her parents murdering innocent people in the name of the cause (a cause I don't think they're going to be able to convince her the importance of- I just don't see it). But now that they're into truth-telling, are they going to tell her about all the murders and affairs they're involved in on a regular basis?

 

Maybe they are going to try to play it like kids can be made to do anything by their parents, but given that Philip himself isn't all that into this cause (he only stays because of Elizabeth), I still see it more like Philip eventually defecting and taking the kids with him somehow. If Paige had a really strong relationship with her parents, maybe I could buy her being swung in that direction, but she said herself she's always felt so isolated from them, and we know she's closer to Pastor Tim and the church. I don't think it makes sense for her to be able to be molded so easily by them now. She doesn't even know who they are.

 

I think if I were her I'd be terrified of them.

Edited by ruby24
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At this point I'm thinking that Henry has 1) found every possible hiding hole in the Jennings' home, 2) discovered the cache of weapons and disguises and everything else hidden in the basement, 3) taught himself to speak Russian via cassette tapes by mail, and 4) been sending coded messages to Arkady at the Rezidentura via that so-called "football game" he's constantly playing.

 

Henry is starting to remind me of Badger from 'Better Off Dead' (an 80's movie). 

 

Even if Paige does believe Elizabeth that everything about Russia is lies, how is Elizabeth going to explain that under 'the peace' aka communism, there is no god? I think that might wind up being Paige's tipping point. That and Jesus not exactly being down with killing innocent people. She was pretty snarky about Gregory and the drugs. Teens are pretty harsh - they see people as all good or bad. You don't start seeing that people are made up of both until you get older. 

 

They are really pushing it credibility wise with me. I thought the reveal was pretty good, actually. But them leaving her alone after Jared went coo-coo for coca puffs and killed his family? Really? 

 

And I watched GH and GL. I alternated days unless the story line was really good and then we got a VCR and I taped both. 

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I like that along with being hilarious and Mr. Robinson and a total spy Henry still asks questions that sound dumb but are not: why are they building a school? Paige doesn't know, really. They need schools in Kenya...so why are they buying plane tickets for 20 American kids to do it? Just take that money and give it to local professional builders.

Giving money to local builders probably makes sure the school never gets built.  They wouldn't consider it corruption: they would consider it survival. 

 

I thought Pastor Tim was pretty spot on when he spoke with Phillip.  Paige desperately needs time with and guidance from her parents.  She just made a desperate plea for that with them.  Whether or not they go on that trip -- which is probably not going to happen -- P&E need to pay lots more attention to their kids. 

 

 

Does Stan suspect Martha of planting the bug?

 

Absolutely.  The noose tightens.  Not just around Martha, but by extension P&E.  I still believe this ends disastrously for Martha. 

 

I also felt Stan picked up something amiss near the end, with Paige, at the Jennings house. 

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