S03.E09: Do Mail Robots Dream of Electric Sheep?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Philip and Elizabeth struggle with the gravity of unexpected collateral damage. Stan and Oleg hatch a risky plan to help save Nina.

[PinkRibbons]

Promo:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F4-24oVNHk

[RedHawk]

No way! Is that really the episode title? Love it.

[kikaha]

RH, you know that the title comes from the Phillip Dick novel, that Blade Runner was based on? 

[stillshimpy]

So jeez, that  "That's what evil people tell themselves, when they do evil ....things...." woman really isn't afraid of playing it big and broad, is she?  The scenery in that moment wanted to run for its life and people in the back rows were saying, "Seriously, you can dial down the intoning of doom, lady.  Like, we get it, okay?"  

 

That said, I like that Elizabeth appears to nearly wet the floor over that horror-movie-escapee's pronouncements.  

Edited March 20, 2015 by stillshimpy

[RedHawk]

RH, you know that the title comes from the Phillip Dick novel, that Blade Runner was based on?

 

 

Yes, and I think it's so fun that they used it.

[Umbelina]

OMG.  This show just rips my heart out sometimes.  The two women alone in that office room acted the crap out of those scenes.  "That's what evil people tell themselves when they do evil things."  This murder really hit me hard, harder than any of the others.  Obviously, that was true for Elizabeth as well.  It was so strange listening to Elizabeth be honest, and she went to Philip hoping for a way not to do that, even though she knew she would have to.  When she said, "Russia." and all hope was gone...damn.  I loved that the woman knew what it meant immediately too, they could have played that differently.

 

Stellar scenes, I'm so impressed! 

 

Another very tense episode, every single scene maintained the tension.  I feel like I need a Xanax or a drink! 

 

Nina must be magic in bed, or maybe it's her stunning looks, and sadness, or helplessness that causes the men to risk everything for her?  I loved the little eye roll when Stan first left the room.  What unlikely bedfellows, skating very close to being traitors, both of them.

 

I'm surprised with the choice for Martha, but as we've been talking about, all of their choices there have potentially disastrous consequences. 

 

I wonder if Gabriel is being honest about Elizabeth rejecting the first guy, and liking Philip?  Damn Philip!  You are getting far too honest with Gabriel there.  Talk about dangerous!

[AimingforYoko]

Keri Russell's Emmy reel, ladies and gentlemen. And Lois Smith was no slouch herself.

[Umbelina]

I hope Lois gets a guest star nomination out of that one.  Damn.  They both just broke my heart.

[Primetimer]

The mail robot probably would have tried harder to avoid getting the crap kicked out of it by Gaad if it knew it would be sent to a facility where a sweet senior citizen would interrupt a couple of spies.

Read the story

[soapfaninnc]

Unless Elizabeth starts really showing me something other than a few suppressed tears here and there, I'm going to actively root for her to meet her demise. I cannot identify with a mother who would willingly - eagerly - put her child in a position where she might have to force an elderly woman to kill herself or kill an elderly woman just because she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Its beyond my comprehension. And as the old lady said, it's evil. 

 

I wish Phillip would have shoved those Scrabble pieces up Old Dracula's nose. 

[Shriekingeel]

The Zinaida plot is incredibly uninteresting, and serves to point out how dull Stan and Oleg are when Nina's not around.

Could the old lady have been any more of a problematic kill for Elizabeth? Husband liberated Nazi camps. Check. And rejected Christianity. Check. Sage quote about justifying evil. Check. But I can't see her ever changing. She'll be bloodthirsty to the end.

The thing with Henry is almost comedic at this point. Somehow neither of his super-observant parents notices that he's a (literally) born spy.

[benteen]

I guess Hans shot first.

 

In a season that featured someone being stuffed into a suitcase and a necklacing, the death of the old woman might have been the most brutal.  Incredibly well-acted but brutal.

 

I liked the last scene between Stan and Oleg a lot.

 

Matthew Rhys does that anger under the surface (scary anger) better than anyone on TV.

 

Still, it feels like the show is treading water with the Martha storyline.  Maybe with the defector too.

 

I don't know what more the KGB can possibly get out of Martha.

Edited March 26, 2015 by benteen

[shura]

If I were the FBI, just discovered a bug in the office, sent out a mail robot for repairs - and someone in the shop died, even if apparently of natural causes? I'd just get a brand new mail robot.

[lucindabelle]

Once again it's becoming clear that the writers were not around in 1983. My dad served in WWII. In 1983 he was in his early 50s, not by any stretch of the i agitation an old man. The oldest someone could be who had served in that war in 983 was in his sixties. Don't know how old the actress is but it's just weird to me. Most of the WWII vets in the early 80s were active heads off business and politics.

ETA yea Lois smith is 84. And looks it, no way was she a WWII bride if this is 1983. She'd have been 43 and her husband too old to be in active duty unless he were a general or something.

Sometimes the chronology annoys me.

Yes it was a good scene. But in 1983 WWII was not he pearl frame oh it was so long ago that we think of now. Really irritating .

Edited March 26, 2015 by lucindabelle

[SailorGirl]

I swear these low-boil episodes are more intense than some of the heavy action episodes. 

Interesting to see a pragmatic, calm and confident Martha -- when she handled the phone call from the children's services agency so matter-of-factly, it was clear that she has decided that she is willing to turn a blind eye to what she truly knows in order to be "happily married." Let's see how long that lasts . . . although I have to say, I know a lot of people who choose to turn a blind eye to the spouse's behavior, because once they acknowledge the truth, there is just no turning back, so they choose to live in ignorance. 

I have to say, I am glad they are showing more layers to Martha -- I don't cringe when she is on-screen anymore, and am actually interested in her character (finally)!

 

And this show being what it is, I have to wonder -- was it coincidence that Martha was not sitting at her desk working when Gaad and Aderhold and Stan were discussing the defector Stan is babysitting (post Oleg head-bash)? Wouldn't it be something if Martha turns out to be the one playing Clark now that she knows he isn't who he says he is? I truly wonder if Martha had a one-on-one with Gaad and they are playing a long game here. 

 

And about that Oleg head-bash -- you just KNOW he took some pleasure in that! 

 

The Elizabeth/old lady plot was incredible -- nice to know Elizabeth'd cold Russian heart isn't completely frozen.  Interesting how this death, one that she did not directly inflict with her bare hands, is the one that has affected her. I guess when she is in the heat of the moment, her training kicks in and she just does what she has been trained to do, but in a situation where it is a slower play-out, she has the time to think about what she is actually doing and that maybe all this killing isn't ideal after all, even though, the old woman's death, "will make a difference." 

Edited March 26, 2015 by SailorGirl

[Umbelina]

Older men served too though, especially reservists.  If he was late thirties or early forties in 1945 (so younger when he signed up or went,) the ages would work.   His photo didn't look extremely young.

 

Gabriel sure implied they have another mole in the FBI.

 

Please don't be Aderholt!  Or Oleg working Stan for blackmail!

Edited March 26, 2015 by Umbelina

[crgirl412]

I do not like this gratuitous killing!  This was the worst one for me.  What's wrong with a disguise for Elizabeth in this situation???  Why did she go anyway?  To be a lookout?  They've done all kinds of things with a lookout. Couldn't they have found another way to have Elizabeth show some kind of normal emotions? 

 

Was Martha telling Clark stuff even though she has no one what he does or really who he is?  Did I miss that whole conversation or did it a.) Not ever happen or b.) They had it but we didn't see it?

Edited March 26, 2015 by crgirl412

[lucindabelle]

Older men did not serve four years overseas. Unless they were generals. I'm the daughter of a vet and niece of many and I just don't buy it. If you have an example of a man in his forties who liberated a camp overseas, tell me.

I personally think it was just sloppy writing because a woman who is 84 NOW Gould have been a WWII bride. At the very least the WWII thing was ahistorical, demanded explanation, and was written, in my opinion, solely to appeal to a contemporary audience and threw me right out of it. JFK served in WWII. Know how old he'd have been in 1983? Mid50s.

i actually find this a bit offensive, albeit unwittingly, to the greatest generation who were in their prime in 1983.

Look, in 1983, WWII was as far away from the present as the 70s are to us now. people did not think of it as ancient history, pearl frame, when I was a girl tra la. It was your youth ut not the far distant past. I found it a cheap bid for sentimentality and I'm beginning to lose faith with this show because of it.

I have pictures of myself in 1975 and don't think of it as sepia tones. It's ridiculous. It was a long time ago yes, sure, I was litte, but it's not the dawn of time. It's not even mad men.

Edited March 26, 2015 by lucindabelle

[crashdown]

I loved the final scene between Philip and Gabriel.  I had the distinct feeling when Philip said that his job was to protect his family that his "family" also includes Martha.  Philip is hands-down my favorite cold-blooded murderer ever!

Edited March 26, 2015 by crashdown

[Umbelina]

I do not like this gratuitous killing!  This was the worst one for me.  What's wrong with a disguise for Elizabeth in this situation???  Why did she go anyway?  To be a lookout?  They've done all kinds of thing with a lookout. Couldn't they have found another way to show Elizabeth show some kind of normal emotions? 

 

Was Martha telling Clark stuff even though she has no one what he does or really who he is?  Did I miss that whole conversation or did it a.) Not ever happen or b.) They had it but we didn't see it?

I don't think they expected anyone to be there, so they didn't wear disguises.  It was supposed to be a simple B & E.  Routine.

 

I too have family that served in WW2.  I don't find it beyond the realm of possibility that an older man volunteered.  I DO get your point though, it just didn't bother me, especially since they didn't give an age for the woman, and we know her real-life age, but not really what age the character was.  They've made worse mistakes than this.  Personally, I'm so spoiled by Mad Men's attention to detail.  Either way, I thought this episode was amazing.  Sad.  Scary.  Tense.  Amazing.  I found this and they were drafting men up until age 45 after Pearl Harbor.  ??  Also, we don't know that he was immediately sent overseas, so he may have only been there near the end.  Fan-wanking too much?

Congress after Pearl Harbor passed a new Selective Service Act which removed restrictions and extended the draft to men aged 18-38 years of age (briefly to 45 years). All men between 18-65 had to register.

 

Edited March 26, 2015 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

This was a real first for me...I thought this ep was just awful. I didn't connect to anything in it except maybe Philip telling Gabriel to step off and even that was ruined by his ridiculous "lightning bolt" confession about Elizabeth. Why was that necessary? Also does Gabriel have a special Scrabble Game that only spits out words ominously relevant to the conversation?

 

Otherwise, while I am always ready to suspend disbelief for missions, and could do it enough to accept Philip and Elizabeth bugging the mail robot instead of someone else doing it, they lost me when Elizabeth hears a noise/sees a light and decides to investigate instead of maybe hide or run. No, she actually walks up to the office to introduce herself just so she'll have to kill Grandma--but not before a stagey scene. Does she just not like being secretive?

 

And while I don't dislike Elizabeth the way some do, she never seemed as much of a dick to me as when she was using the fact that she was going to kill the woman to unburden herself and finally get to tell somebody facts about her life and that she's Russian. Glad you got some emotional release there, Elizabeth. it was worth it for Granny to make you feel something, I'm sure.

 

Also Paige is back with her stupid stickie-note Bible and being motherly with Henry so we can be reminded that Paige is terribly burdened and acts like a mother to Henry, telling him he needs his sleep even though she's wide awake and rarely seems to undress.

 

Oleg and Stan are mildly amusing when together and Oleg's disguise was hilarious, but thanks, Stan, for setting up the FBI to look stupid again right after they found a bug. You're truly the best thing to ever happen to that office. Why did he even bother not handing over Echo? Did he just prefer to undermine the office more slowly--like Elizabeth forcing the woman to OD on her heart medicine?

 

Finally, as someone pointed out to me, bugging the mail robot? So you want to get snippets of desk conversation while the thing toots around in a circle? Who has ever had an important conversation around the Mail Robot?

[JennyMominFL]

Once again it's becoming clear that the writers were not around in 1983. My dad served in WWII. In 1983 he was in his early 50s, not by any stretch of the i agitation an old man. The oldest someone could be who had served in that war in 983 was in his sixties. Don't know how old the actress is but it's just weird to me. Most of the WWII vets in the early 80s were active heads off business and politics.

ETA yea Lois smith is 84. And looks it, no way was she a WWII bride if this is 1983. She'd have been 43 and her husband too old to be in active duty unless he were a general or something.

Sometimes the chronology annoys me.

Yes it was a good scene. But in 1983 WWII was not he pearl frame oh it was so long ago that we think of now. Really irritating .

Your dad served in WW2 and was early 50's in 83? That would make him born in 1930 or so, which means he was 11 or so in 1941 when the USA entered the war and 15 or 16 when it ended.

People served in WW2 that were 50 years old.. JFK was born in 1917. Had he lived he would have been 66 in 1983

[AlliMo]

I think I held my breath that entire episode.

 

In some ways, the scene where Hans kills the guy was more brutal than the necklacing last week. Hans is in way over his head.

 

Elizabeth seems more emotionless than Philip because she's a true believer in ways that he can't quite bring himself to be. Being confronted with the fact that evil deeds are evil even in the face of what you may think of as the greater good is something she's not equipped to deal with.

 

I found it interesting that Martha choose to give Philip more information about the situation at the FBI. I don't think that she's just decided to be willfully oblivious; I think she's decided that even though she may not know exactly who or what Philip is, she's already in, and she might as well be an active participant. She's made an active choice to align herself with him, and I think he's vastly underestimated her steel. He may not love her as deeply or in the same way that he loves Elizabeth, but he clearly cares deeply for her. I also think that Elizabeth sees this, and while there may be an element of jealousy, her love for Philip may just translate to her being willing to extend herself to protect Martha as well for his sake.

 

I don't think that Elizabeth was using this chance to unburden herself to the older woman as much as the older woman was actively trying to engage Elizabeth in the hopes that it would humanize her and hopefully keep her from harm, and Elizabeth responded to that.

 

I love this show so much.

Edited March 26, 2015 by AlliMo

[hannah8976]

JFK would've been 66 in 1983.

[RedHawk]

Older men did not serve four years overseas.

 

 

Sorry, yes they did. My dad served in WWII for nearly 4 years in the South Pacific and would have been 70 in 1983. 

 

In 1983 the war had been over nearly 40 years. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by RedHawk

[JennyMominFL]

JFK would've been 66 in 1983.

And his brother Joseph who was killed in WW2 would have been 68 in 83..Add to that the fact that I thought Lois Smith was 10 years younger than she apparently is and I totally buy it

[lucindabelle]

You're right, my. Math wa soft, late 50s.

But in any case late 50s is not early 80s. Hell early 60s is not mid 80s. People in their early 60s aren't even senior citizens.

Sorry, when i see the writer appropriating something real for the sake of making me feel sentimental I object to it. There is just no way. We had lines about WWII, liberationg camps, what he saw there, all put in with one ourpose, to make us care about her and feel something, not because the logic of the scene demanded it. If he were an aide to a general there needed to be a line about it.

Again, in 1983 the war was not wven routinely called w Great War. Holocuast museum didn't exist. MOST of the people who ran the country had been involved in the war. Hell, Elizabeth's own dad was a deserter in WWII. Do we think Elizabeth's mom is in her 80s, and had her when she was 50?

I felt too manipulated by the scene to care about it,

Edited March 26, 2015 by lucindabelle

[stillshimpy]

Yeah, I'm just not even going to get into the whole "too old to have a husband who served in WWII" thing because different things stick out to different people.  Whereas it's possible that Lois's character was younger (having a heart condition could cause someone to age poorly) and he was supposed to have been in the army for four years (meaning at the very, very latest he had to have been born in 1921) ....it just isn't the problem I have with the scenes.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I teared up, but I was also sort of ticked, because it was one of those instances where the show was going all Gabriel on my butt when it comes to emotional manipulations:  practically tap-dancing on my tear ducts to demand that I cry.  

 

 

 

Otherwise, while I am always ready to suspend disbelief for missions, and could do it enough to accept Philip and Elizabeth bugging the mail robot instead of someone else doing it, they lost me when Elizabeth hears a noise/sees a light and decides to investigate instead of maybe hide or run. No, she actually walks up to the office to introduce herself just so she'll have to kill Grandma--but not before a stagey scene. Does she just not like being secretive?

 

Not to mention Elizabeth spilling out the heart pills.  Uh...huh?  Okay, so she somehow knew that overdosing the poor old lady would kill her rather than make her vomit or any other number of things.  Fine.  I guess when you have a handy bottle of plot device pills at the ready, they might as well be lethal.  

 

This episode showed the strain of artifice on too many levels.  Including Stan and Oleg's buddy cop routine.   

 

Or....hey....what exactly is that bug supposed to record now?  Hallway chatter?  The sound of people walking by?  

 

Not one of the better plotted episodes, in my opinion.  Also, how nice of Grandma Oracle to die intoning "evil....things...."  in lugubrious tones.  

 

There's room for subtlety, Show.  Jeez. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by stillshimpy

[JennyMominFL]

My FIl was a cook who served in the Pacific theatre. He was born in 1910 making him 73 in 1983. He married a woman 5 years older than him.

Edited March 26, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[lucindabelle]

Yes exactly wrt the evil people line. It all reminded me of why I stopped watching call e midwife... The show in which a survivor of the "nazi ghetto" was agoraphobic but somehow escaped with all her photographs in silver frames. Wait, what?

I just felt manipulated, like the writers thought they had. grand Idea to Make Me cry, and when I thought about it for even a second I didntuy it at all. I think this scene was crafted to be an Emmy reel, and it felt like it, and it took me right out of it.

[JennyMominFL]

Yes exactly wrt the evil people line. It all reminded me of why I stopped watching call e midwife... The show in which a survivor of the "nazi ghetto" was agoraphobic but somehow escaped with all her photographs in silver frames. Wait, what?

I just felt manipulated, like the writers thought they had. grand Idea to Make Me cry, and when I thought about it for even a second I didntuy it at all. I think this scene was crafted to be an Emmy reel, and it felt like it, and it took me right out of it.

I do agree with you that they were definitely trying to play on every emotion they could

[bentley]

When Children's Services called, I was afraid they would show Martha making plans for adoption, letting Phillip know this would be the price of her silence and cooperation. I'm so glad they didn't play it that way. At this point, I believe the only thing that could turn Martha against Phillip is finding out that he already has a wife with whom he is really in love. That might just break her, and bring out the gun we're all waiting to see used. 

 

I thought Elizabeth would show a little more anger at her over-zealous South African trainee, who killed the guy she lobbied to give a second chance last week.

 

Oleg needs to do a better job of hiding his smirk.

[RedHawk]

I could watch more Stan and Oleg. At this point Stan, Oleg, and Philip could form a bowling team and I'd just watch them bowl, drink beer, and rib each other for an hour every week. 

 

Maybe put Arkady in there, too.

Edited March 26, 2015 by RedHawk

[lucindabelle]

I honestly would have felt sorry for the old woman if she were just an old woman whose husband wasn't a hero camp liberator. Unnecessary. But yeah the whole thing was so contrived, including the deathy heart pills.

I do like Martha seeming to collaborate though. Watching for that,

Not interested in the South African lovelorn kid or the turning of Paige.

[RedHawk]

That wallpaper in Paige's bedroom has GOT to go. Either it goes or I do.

[maraleia]

Hey everyone- can you check your posts before they are posted. I'm seeing lots of spelling and grammar mistakes and it makes them really hard to read.

 

As for the episode, I can totally buy that the woman Elizabeth killed was in her mid-60's. (I really didn't have any idea that Lois Smith was 84 until I looked her up) My grandma was born in 1914 so that would've made her 69 in 1983 and she already looked old to me before that time. Remember that people looked older back in the day. My mom is about to turn 70 and she looks way younger than my grandma at that age and a lot of that has to do with clothing choices and hairstyles. I'm 44 and people tell me that I look about 35.

[lucindabelle]

If she were 60 it would work, but not the way the war was being talked about... To me they just were talking about something that was 70 years earlier not 40, including the pearl frames n the photo. Is it possible? Sure I guess. But not common and felt contrived.

Sorry about the misspellings. Will proof, on an iPad. I think they have too many balls in the air this season, with Nina, martha, Kimmie, South Africa dude, Paige.

I wonder if martha thinks she's a russian spy now.

[JennyMominFL]

I'm wondering if this story with the old woman, is meant to show Elizabeth how hard it is to kill someone once they have become humanized. Will this later play into the Martha Story, when it is possibly Philips turn to kill someone he has developed feelings for?

Edited March 26, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[RedHawk]

Remember that by 1983 the country had gone through the Korean conflict and the Vietnam war. That made WWII seem further away. Things also had changed so rapidly in the '60s. I remember thinking as a child and teenager that WWII was "long ago" and years later it surprised me to realize that when I was born the war had been over less than 20 years. Your memories may be different but I just din't see it as a huge glaring mistake on the writers' part.

The scene was contrived in many ways, yet I still enjoyed it. Liked the Gabriel Scrabble scene even less because it was overly contrived, but I am all about Philip finally letting Gabriel know where he stands.

Loved the scene with Martha and Clark and the direction its going. Intriguing.

[Boundary]

I swear these low-boil episodes are more intense than some of the heavy action episodes. 

 

This. These are my kind of fav episodes, everything happened and nothing happened. If you asked me about this episode many years from now, I probably won't recall anything that happened but I'll remember what I'm feeling right now: awe, wonder, admiration, love even. This is daring tv (only Masters of Sex and Mad Men can do episodes of this kind and pull it off). No big set pieces, no one raised their voice, no stirring music. Just quiet, superior film making. I loved it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

what exactly is that bug supposed to record now? Hallway chatter? The sound of people walking by?

Or eight hours of people asking why they can't get their documents out of the mail robot!

[TV Anonymous]

I am just wondering why the old lady just agrees to overdose herself, instead of just gets a bullet in the head. She makes it easy for the Soviet spy. Bullet in the head is certainly quicker and supposedly less painful. Besides, just out of principle, why help the enemy?

Edited March 26, 2015 by TV Anonymous

[Umbelina]

She didn't.  She also mentioned she was very afraid of pain, and for most people, the idea of a bullet is much scarier than pills.

 

Pills were the easier death for her as well as for Elizabeth.

 

ETA

Philip has been having doubts for a while now.  I think this was the first time we've seen Elizabeth have some of her own.  Maybe, just maybe the old lady's words will resonate with her, a tiny seed planted, that may have interesting growth as well as roots.

 

The whole episode worked for me though, everything was tense!  Philip opening the door to Martha's apartment, the phone ringing, every scene, all the way through, right up until the end with Philip having a dangerous showdown with Gabriel.  It just all worked for me.

 

Oh hell.  Gene "the computer specialist" is also in charge of the mail robot, and it was his idea to get it.  Gene's toast.  We definitely have our patsy.  I missed that little comment from Martha the first two times.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Umbelina

[Dev F]

Oh hell.  Gene "the computer specialist" is also in charge of the mail robot, and it was his idea to get it.  Gene's toast.  We definitely have our patsy.

 

Seems like it. I wonder if the Center even wants the mail robot bugged for eavesdropping purposes, or whether they're just setting it up to be discovered to implicate Gene as the mole.

 

I wonder how Elizabeth would feel if she found out that she murdered her sweet old mother figure to save Phillip's fake wife.

[thefreeair]

I like Elizabeth. This is partly a defiant feeling because every time a female character polarizes folks or gets a lot of hate, I tend to rally behind said character on principle. Philip is easy to like, all charming and with conflicts an American audience can relate to, and it annoys me sometimes that the cold, tough, unrootable characteristics were given to Elizabeth who already has the uphill battle of being a woman on TV. 

 

So, I give Elizabeth a lot of grace. But I also just find the character deeply sympathetic, and think Keri Russell has done a wonderful job with presenting a flawed, complex woman holding tightly to a set of beliefs that she just could not go on without at this point.

 

But this episode was a tough one to be in her corner for (or Philip’s for that matter). Kudos to the show for not whitewashing the horrific acts that P and E commit every episode, but damn. I think I need the week to recover from this one. Seniors and children get me every time.

[Bannon]

That's it, I'm done with this show. A great premise, with mostly good actors, written with a large degree of laziness. The Two Lovers of Nina story arc is just flat out stupid. The FBI is populated by people you would not trust to manage a coin operated laundromat. Now we have a slow motion murder in which the murder victim does commentary worthy of Howard Cosell circa early '80s. Sheesh.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Bannon

[kikaha]

I think Umbelina has it right.  Center is framing Gene as the patsy.  Not too believable to me, but I bet that's where the show is headed. 

 

That doesn't really solve the Martha problem though.  For one, even if they pick up Gene, the FBI would be crazy not to do thorough investigations of everyone else in the office.  Including lie detectors. 

 

Then there's Martha herself.  She knows something is seriously wrong.  Her bewailing cry to Clark ("What have I done??!!") shows that.  She even suspects treason IMO -- and watching Gene get taken away should cement those suspicions.  Will she really frame an innocent man for something she did?  Will she knowingly betray her country?  As much as she loves Clark, that seems to me OOC for her. 

 

Really enjoying these episodes, and think the last four will be packed with action, plot and series-critical events.  

 

Oh -- if the defector actually is a double agent, as Stan suspects, hard for me to believe the US would trade her for another Soviet agent (Nina). They would want to get a real US asset.  Besides, Nina seems to be working her way back up into the ranks back in Mother Russia.  If she gets through to the reluctant Stealth scientist, she'll be golden there. 

[Trillian]

As for the episode, I can totally buy that the woman Elizabeth killed was in her mid-60's. (I really didn't have any idea that Lois Smith was 84 until I looked her up) My grandma was born in 1914 so that would've made her 69 in 1983 and she already looked old to me before that time. Remember that people looked older back in the day. My mom is about to turn 70 and she looks way younger than my grandma at that age and a lot of that has to do with clothing choices and hairstyles. I'm 44 and people tell me that I look about 35.

This! 60 is the new 40, in so many ways. I look at my parents' wedding portraits where they posed with their parents and my grandmothers, who were in their mid to late 50s, look like old ladies. That would not be the norm today (or at least I hope not, since I'm just a few years younger than they were in those photos)! Most - that I knew, anyway - grandmothers in the early '80s dressed in a matronly fashion that today would be frumpy, didn't work out, didn't wear full makeup (a lady wears a little powder and lipstick, maybe a discrete touch of rouge), didnt colour her hair, wore "sensible" shoes etc etc. Factor in the hardships of living through a world war or two, the Great Depression, and years of doing the housework by hand (remember ringer washers, anyone? And what those did to your moms' and grandmothers' hands?)....

I could totally buy that she was in her 60s at least.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Trillian

[molshoop]

I think the writers copped out.  Elizabeth's victim is an old woman with a heart condition so bad she needs a transplant.  She doesn't want the transplant, and hates hospitals anyway. So she wouldn't want to die in one, right. 

 

She misses her deceased husband so much, she comes in at night to feel close to him.  She has no fear of death, and thinks she will join him when she goes.  Hey, this is practically a mercy killing.

 

I would have made the bookkeeper  the son's young, pregnant wife.  The baby kicking is keeping her awake, so she comes in to catch up on her work.  Let Elizabeth deal with that situation.