S10.E10: All About Jessa

[Barb23]

A couple things I caught after watching episode again:

- You would think they knew the wedding guests that arrived early & were hanging at the TTC. I thought I heard Jessa ask "where are you from?" to one group of guests, like she didn't have a clue who they were & she probably didn't.

- Instead of just saying they stayed up late talking, Guinn said Ben "counseled & encouraged" his younger siblings. What's the deal with all the fancy words except to impress?

- At the end of the football game, I'm calling more of a full frontal hug that Ben & Jessa gave each other. Definitely wasn't a side hug & they seemed to linger a little long like a normal couple would. I guess MEchelle's "hug detecting" meter was broken.

- Last but not least - Can Jill not say a complete sentence without giggling? In her THs before Derick came along, she came across more serious in tone. I realize she is in love now, but grow up girl, you are going to be a mom. (Or as my OB told me, you become a mom when you find out you're pregnant not when the baby is born.)

[3girlsforus]

I read somewhere that it was a goal of Gothard parents to have the older kids take care and raise the younger children and the parents are now free to coast. It looks like Mullet and Boob are following that rule.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this was the case but I'd be really curious to hear the wording they use to describe this approach. Being that they are all about perception they wouldn't be honest and say 'now we can coast'. It would be interested to hear how they spin it.

[GEML]

I don't know that it's Gothard to do that honestly. Or that it's Pearl. For one thing, most natural families aren't going to be large enough or gender specific enough for that to happen easily. For parents to have an easier time of it, yes, but coast? No. Gothard takes the training of children very seriously. Leaving that in the hands of anyone but the parents would be a mistake, I think, in his opinion.

[3girlsforus]

So then GEML you are saying the buddy system and clear turning over of raising children and running the household to the older daughters is not a function of Gothard but just the Duggars? 

[JoanArc]

I don't think Gothard plans for nervous breakdowns. Michelle's coasted for the last 12 kids. I think Gill and Kelly are better gothard-ish parents. Not that I really approve of them, but they're better at it.

[GEML]

Michelle credits someone else for the "jurisdictions" and the buddy system. Don't remember who that is. And I'm also not sure if the buddy system was ever meant to be used to give an older child practically their own little family to raise, which is essentially what the Duggars do, or if it was what most of us think of as a Buddy system - you have a younger child that you help out in the mornings and evenings (wake up and bedtime) and on travel so they don't get lost - the latter which seems more reasonable.

[ChicksDigScars]

Also, to address something from the first page, the girl with the hat is Peyton Weiss. She was one of Jessa's bridesmaids. Her brother is hottie Skylar Weiss, the muscular youth who helped Smuggar paint the spare bedroom of the DC house about 18 months ago.

 

Please tell me that Skylar and Jana hooked up at the wedding. Well, "hooked up" in Duggarland means that they exchanged e-mail addresses and cell numbers. 

[Absolom]

I know the Duggars got the scheduling and the chore packs from the Maxwells (Maxhells), but I don't see buddy teams with the Maxwells.  Steve wouldn't relinquish that much control.  

 

I wonder if Jessa picked up some of her organizing tips from the Maxwell books.  They are big on list keeping and organizing, too.

[Chai]

Michelle credits someone else for the "jurisdictions" and the buddy system. Don't remember who that is. And I'm also not sure if the buddy system was ever meant to be used to give an older child practically their own little family to raise, which is essentially what the Duggars do, or if it was what most of us think of as a Buddy system - you have a younger child that you help out in the mornings and evenings (wake up and bedtime) and on travel so they don't get lost - the latter which seems more reasonable.

Whenever we traveled or went out together I used to tell my kids pick a buddy-- and it meant nothing like the Duggar's system. I only meant stay together  two by twos so no one gets lost. It certainly didn't mean for life! lol!

[Wellfleet]

I don't know that it's Gothard to do that honestly. Or that it's Pearl. For one thing, most natural families aren't going to be large enough or gender specific enough for that to happen easily. For parents to have an easier time of it, yes, but coast? No. Gothard takes the training of children very seriously. Leaving that in the hands of anyone but the parents would be a mistake, I think, in his opinion.

 

I agree. As with most things they do, the Duggars have gone over-the-top extreme here. IMO, a very big, very bright light went on over Me-chelle's head the first time she got any kind of help with the kids, the household etc. Maybe it was even before the piano teacher/laundry incident - who knows? But Me-chelle, with the lastborn child's natural tendency to think "I-guess-I'm-entitled-to-all-this-special-treatment-because-I'm-so-darned-cute," clearly leapt on the bandwagon. She's probably lain awake more than a few nights coming up with ways to dump the gruntwork of child-raising onto her older daughters, while managing to keep all the perks, benefits and Mother of the Year awards solidly in her basket. I think Me-chelle is also a naturally lazy person, and as a child the virtues of being conscientious, considerate and personally responsible was never really stressed. I really doubt that most fundie families operate like the Duggars in this regard. At least I sure hope so...

[Barb23]

Michelle credits someone else for the "jurisdictions" and the buddy system. Don't remember who that is. And I'm also not sure if the buddy system was ever meant to be used to give an older child practically their own little family to raise, which is essentially what the Duggars do, or if it was what most of us think of as a Buddy system - you have a younger child that you help out in the mornings and evenings (wake up and bedtime) and on travel so they don't get lost - the latter which seems more reasonable.

It's one thing for an older child to be a buddy to a younger sibling but the Duggars seemed to have taken it to an extreme with the Buddy Groups or Teams. From what I've seen from the Bates family, it doesn't seem they do the Buddy group thing. I guess Gil & Kelly know as parents they are responsible for raising their children, not passing that duty to an older child.

On a different note, Jinger was going on & on about how weird it will be to Jessa when she has to start using Seewald as her last name. Wasn't Jessa using Seewald as her last name on social media way before she was even engaged?

[Literata]

 Please tell me that Skylar and Jana hooked up at the wedding. Well, "hooked up" in Duggarland means that they exchanged e-mail addresses and cell numbers.

 

And sermons. Remember, that's what they do when they first court -- they exchange sermons. What fun that must be...  

[GEML]

I have known a lot of Fundamentalist families, from relatively close to mainstream to deep within the subcultures (deeper than the Duggars.). And I have NEVER known one where the mother didn't pull her share of the work (and usually then some.) I've known some lazy fathers, not the majority, but too many, but no mothers like Michelle.

[VioletNevermind]

I sometimes think Jim Bob sees Michelle as his reward for being a good boy, while Michelle sees Jim Bob as her punishment for whatever perceived sins she committed.  I know it's weird but it's just a feeling I get watching their scenes together.

 

I think you just blew my mind.  That is an incredible observation.

[Absolom]

I think Jill Rodriguez bears keeping an eye on as far as lazy mothering goes.  

 

I'm not sure how hands on Jessa will be with her own kids.  I'm hoping she only has two or three and never adopts as I think she would actually mother a small number and not pass them off.

[GEML]

The Rodriquez family is awful. Her children are obviously worked like dogs, but I think her life is pretty miserable too. She reminds me more of Andrea Yeats than Michelle.

[JoanArc]

Most dogs get fed.

[GEML]

And probably aren't hit as often.

[mccav]

Although this episode was about Jessa, for me it definitely highlighted Michelle's laziness and lack of substance. She wasn't even trying to hide the fact that she wouldn't be the one filling Jessa's shoes or taking up some of the slack. That wasn't even a consideration. She came across as entitled, with a splash of defiance. She's not going to lift a finger to help fill the void.

Michelle talks, but says nothing that is meaningful, heartfelt, or contemplative. She putters around the house/kitchen for the cameras trying to appear busy, but, as we all know, the kids are the ones doing the major work. I wish she would snap out of it and be a present, warm, loving, involved mother; sadly I don't think it will happen.

[gunderda]

I'm surprised that no one has commented that Michelle actually admitted that her plan for home schooling was to teach the first ones enough so that they could take the bulk of the majority and teach the younger kids. 

 

And JD is playing the whole "i'm going to be the big bad tough brother that is protecting my sisters" when really he just comes across as a huge tool.  No one is scared of you JD. 

[Tielsmomma]

Two scenes stood out for me. Ben’s mom saying that when he told her he was interested in Jessa, she told him he didn’t stand a chance because she could well imagine there were tons of guys breaking down her door. And, after Jim Bob announced to the family that Jessa and Ben were now courting, Josiah walked over to Ben, gave him a hug and said welcome to the family. I thought that was a nice thing Josiah did, because John David said when he started “flirting” with Jessa, he didn’t like him and gave him the cold shoulder. What a jerk!

Isn't JD the one who bragged about scaring away potential suitors for Jana? He laughed at the fact she was still single.

[3girlsforus]

I have known a lot of Fundamentalist families, from relatively close to mainstream to deep within the subcultures (deeper than the Duggars.). And I have NEVER known one where the mother didn't pull her share of the work (and usually then some.) I've known some lazy fathers, not the majority, but too many, but no mothers like Michelle.

 

This is why I assumed it was a Gothard thing since you can be a Fundamentalist without being a Gotharite. I don't know families are deep into subcultures as you but I have know Fundamentalist families and while they were all very controlling and rule oriented I didn't know any whose mothers were like Michelle either. 

[GEML]

I was talking to my father about Bill Gothard and he said, "We always tried to keep you girls away from those families as much as we could."

Now, given the families I WAS allowed to know and be friendly with, and some of them were really really out there, that should tell you something! :)

[3girlsforus]

As far as JD's rude and inappropriate comments, he is definitely a tool. His comments to me sound like an attempt to be like JimBob (why I have no idea). JB says a lot of similarly rude and inappropriate things as well.

[flyingdi]

I honestly think in this episode Michelle wasn't even trying to hide the fact that she's lazy.

[graefin]

I'm surprised that no one has commented that Michelle actually admitted that her plan for home schooling was to teach the first ones enough so that they could take the bulk of the majority and teach the younger kids.

But that's been her plan for *all* household duties. Is it any surprise that she lumps education in with all the other chores like cooking and cleaning?

I honestly think in this episode Michelle wasn't even trying to hide the fact that she's lazy.

I think she lacks the self-awareness to even realize that she is lazy. As far as I understand, narcissists are good at looking busy without actually really doing much.

[Literata]

Isn't JD the one who bragged about scaring away potential suitors for Jana?

 

The only way JD would scare any potential suitors would be if his presence were to remind them to be concerned about the Duggar gene pool.

[RazzleberryPie]

A couple things I caught after watching episode again:

- Instead of just saying they stayed up late talking, Guinn said Ben "counseled & encouraged" his younger siblings. What's the deal with all the fancy words except to impress?

- At the end of the football game, I'm calling more of a full frontal hug that Ben & Jessa gave each other. Definitely wasn't a side hug & they seemed to linger a little long like a normal couple would. I guess MEchelle's "hug detecting" meter was broken.

- Last but not least - Can Jill not say a complete sentence without giggling? In her THs before Derick came along, she came across more serious in tone. I realize she is in love now, but grow up girl, you are going to be a mom. (Or as my OB told me, you become a mom when you find out you're pregnant not when the baby is born.)

Part of the brainwashing is never being able to just 'do' anything, but having to purpose, fellowship, encourage, train, etc. every single second of your life. They say it's all to make every second of every thought and action For the Lord, but even he rested on the Sabbath. All that purposing just takes the joy and spontenaity out of every thing. It's overkill, especially when the meaning is reduced to an emotion. 

 

No, Jill can't stop gushing or giggling.

 

Although this episode was about Jessa, for me it definitely highlighted Michelle's laziness and lack of substance. She wasn't even trying to hide the fact that she wouldn't be the one filling Jessa's shoes or taking up some of the slack. That wasn't even a consideration. She came across as entitled, with a splash of defiance. She's not going to lift a finger to help fill the void.

Michelle talks, but says nothing that is meaningful, heartfelt, or contemplative. She putters around the house/kitchen for the cameras trying to appear busy, but, as we all know, the kids are the ones doing the major work. I wish she would snap out of it and be a present, warm, loving, involved mother; sadly I don't think it will happen.

Michelle's interest in those kids boils down to who can do what household chore and who she can speak about on her touring schedule.

 

I'm surprised that no one has commented that Michelle actually admitted that her plan for home schooling was to teach the first ones enough so that they could take the bulk of the majority and teach the younger kids. 

 

And JD is playing the whole "i'm going to be the big bad tough brother that is protecting my sisters" when really he just comes across as a huge tool.  No one is scared of you JD. 

Michelle is delusional, and thinks this is a brilliant plan, not that it's a lazy, selfish, irresponsible one. JD - I cant decide if he's so dull, yet so arrogant, that he's pitiful or pathetic. Maybe both.

 

Honestly, it took me about three attempts to watch this episode from start to finish. Summary of the episode = Jessa has always been a bossy bitch who has run that household since she was 12. Jana raised the babies, Jill and Jinger did the cooking, but Jessa - no wonder made a point to run like the wind as soon as she could. She's spent her childhood organizing groceries, clothing, homeschooling (even though she doesn't seem that smart, just bossy), etc.

[lianau]

The Rodriquez family is awful. Her children are obviously worked like dogs, but I think her life is pretty miserable too. She reminds me more of Andrea Yeats than Michelle.

That's the family living in a RV with the baby sleeping in a build in cage in the closet, right ?

Edited March 26, 2015 by lianau

[GEML]

One thing about Jessa - people feel like they know her. They may like her (and she had people who really love her) or not, but she stands out in a world that at every turn tells you to fade into the background and not be noticed, especially if you are a woman. That she managed to do that (and yes, she's on TV, but a lot of people in HER world would either not watch TV or would view that as a negative) says something kind of positive about her. Well, to me, it's positive, since I see trying to be an individual as a good thing. Other people may see it differently.

[DangerousMinds]

It's one thing for an older child to be a buddy to a younger sibling but the Duggars seemed to have taken it to an extreme with the Buddy Groups or Teams. From what I've seen from the Bates family, it doesn't seem they do the Buddy group thing. I guess Gil & Kelly know as parents they are responsible for raising their children, not passing that duty to an older child.

On a different note, Jinger was going on & on about how weird it will be to Jessa when she has to start using Seewald as her last name. Wasn't Jessa using Seewald as her last name on social media way before she was even engaged?

I wonder if she I evem aware that no woman "has" to take a man's last name?

[Wellfleet]

But that's been her plan for *all* household duties. Is it any surprise that she lumps education in with all the other chores like cooking and cleaning?

I think she lacks the self-awareness to even realize that she is lazy. As far as I understand, narcissists are good at looking busy without actually really doing much.

 

Agree - Mechelle is delusional. She believes she's the COO of Duggar Inc, that the whole enterprise would collapse without her.

[drafan]

I finally realized who Ben reminds me of.......

 

Penny on The Big Bang Theory used to bring home dumb lunky guys and Leonard would feel all inferior because they were bigger, better-looking, better-built, etc. They were always cliched big dopes.

 

I'm sure the pickins are pretty slim in Fundieland.

 

HATED the football game with the "girls" watching from the stands. Was wondering why they weren't wearing Sandy (long skirt ) cheerleading outfits from Grease. And shaking pom-poms. So that was Jessa's "Bachelorette Party" , huh?  Yay.

[JoanArc]

I wonder if she I evem aware that no woman "has" to take a man's last name?

 

Or that you're married when you get a license, not when the fundie preacher says you my now frontal hug the bride.

[RazzleberryPie]

Jessa has so much pent up anger, which is totally understandable. What boggles my mind is how Jana got the brunt of Michelle's "training of a strong-willed child" while Jessa flew under the radar. Maybe Jana was the overwhelmed scapegoat who asked Michelle to help her with all of Michelle's babies, while Jessa just bullied the other kids and organized everything, so it didn't inconvenience Michelle, thus giving her no reason to "train" Jessa.

[Absolom]

 

Or that you're married when you get a license

Maybe it varies by state, but so far in none of the states I've lived in does that happen.  You have to get the license signed by both parties and officiant and turn it in to get the marriage certificate.  In the state where I am now, the couple is officially married when the signatures are put on the license.  It isn't the issuing of a license that makes a couple married.  Some agreement has to occur, the license has to be signed, and it has to be filed for the marriage to be legally recognizable.  

[Cherrio]

Agree - Mechelle is delusional. She believes she's the COO of Duggar Inc, that the whole enterprise would collapse without her.

I think at some point there will be a significant psychotic break and Michelle will turn into a fundie Edie Beale.    She will call it Perpendicular Gardens.

[3girlsforus]

Maybe it varies by state, but so far in none of the states I've lived in does that happen.  You have to get the license signed by both parties and officiant and turn it in to get the marriage certificate.  In the state where I am now, the couple is officially married when the signatures are put on the license.  It isn't the issuing of a license that makes a couple married.  Some agreement has to occur, the license has to be signed, and it has to be filed for the marriage to be legally recognizable.  

 

Yep - technically when the preacher (or in the Duggar's case Daddy) says 'You may kiss the bride' you really aren't legally married yet. Afterwards you sign the license. Of course if you really want to be official about it it's not legal until it's been sent back to the state. So technically the Duggar kids DID kiss before they were legally married LOL

[3 is enough]

 

I honestly think in this episode Michelle wasn't even trying to hide the fact that she's lazy.

Honestly, I think that in her deluded mind she thinks that she has done her part by giving birth to 19 kids. She is the holy breeder, and that has given her a free pass for the rest of her life.

[Absolom]

In California, a small group of officiants are authorized by the state to issue the marriage certificates.  The last wedding in the family was our nervous nellie to another nervous nellie.  That the retired Navy chaplain could do this was the turning point in their decision to use him.  He actually completed all the paperwork including giving them the marriage certificate before performing the ceremony before the guests. :)  

 

I expect Arkansas is like most of the rest of the south where the paperwork has to be filed at the county office and you go in and get the official certificate at a later date.  The certificate will show the date of the wedding as the date it occurred even though it may not be filed or issued for several days or a week.  So yes they're married at least by the end of the ceremony. :)

[truthtalk2014]

 Summary of the episode = Jessa has always been a bossy bitch who has run that household since she was 12. Jana raised the babies, Jill and Jinger did the cooking, but Jessa - no wonder made a point to run like the wind as soon as she could. She's spent her childhood organizing groceries, clothing, homeschooling (even though she doesn't seem that smart, just bossy), etc.

She probably chose to learn to organize rather than bathe, change diapers, potty train… etc all the 'littles'.  

 

I really don't think she's all that into babies.  I think using the 'adoption' route is so smart.  She knows she has at least two years of freedom!  Believe me, that girl has got a stash of condoms in the moldy house. 

[RazzleberryPie]

I think at some point there will be a significant psychotic break and Michelle will turn into a fundie Edie Beale.    She will call it Perpendicular Gardens.

Tinker Toy Gardens. Tater Tot Gardens. Tinker Tot Gardens........... I did notice that Michelle's 80s hair was extra long, huge and crunchy this episode, too. 

[truthtalk2014]

Tinker Toy Gardens. Tater Tot Gardens. Tinker Tot Gardens........... I did notice that Michelle's 80s hair was extra long, huge and crunchy this episode, too. 

I constantly think  of the time Kim Kardashian got powdered in public.  When I'm on the verge of sending myself to the prayer closet, I think of someone coming and hacking off about a foot of that mess MEchelle calls hair.  

 

Some bird could make a really nice nest out of it.  Seriously!  When I cut my little Maltese's hair, I toss it outside.  I always see the birds flying away with it.  

 

However, MEchelle's might be too crunchy for a nest.  Just thinking out loud. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[3girlsforus]

In California, a small group of officiants are authorized by the state to issue the marriage certificates.  The last wedding in the family was our nervous nellie to another nervous nellie.  That the retired Navy chaplain could do this was the turning point in their decision to use him.  He actually completed all the paperwork including giving them the marriage certificate before performing the ceremony before the guests. :)  

 

I expect Arkansas is like most of the rest of the south where the paperwork has to be filed at the county office and you go in and get the official certificate at a later date.  The certificate will show the date of the wedding as the date it occurred even though it may not be filed or issued for several days or a week.  So yes they're married at least by the end of the ceremony. :)

 

Yes - that's the way it works but TECHNICALLY and I am talking about a technicality here, they aren't married until the paperwork is filed. It will have the marriage date of the wedding so that makes it legal as of that date but if the paperwork gets lost or never filed then they really didn't get married. That would be hilarious if Jill or Jessa had to go back and get married again because there was a paperwork problem. Well not for them but I'd love to see JimBob walk into a courthouse with a hugely pregnant daughter and explain they need to backdate a new marriage license because the last one got lost LOL. sorry I just find that thought funny.

[Cherrio]

Tinker Toy Gardens. Tater Tot Gardens. Tinker Tot Gardens........... I did notice that Michelle's 80s hair was extra long, huge and crunchy this episode, too. 

Michelle will be spotted in a vintage bikini mowing the lawn.   She will flash anyone she see's, shouting Fuck Nike !  

[DangerousMinds]

Boob did say that Jessa was very headstrong compared to the older kids, especially little Jilly Muff, and that with some "training" her behavior improved.

[3girlsforus]

Boob did say that Jessa was very headstrong compared to the older kids, especially little Jilly Muff, and that with some "training" her behavior improved.

 

that sends chills up my spine

[SoSueMe]

This family is so emotionally incestuous.

That is a very apt description and probably what creeps me out sooooo much.

[GEML]

I don't think either Jana or Jessa was headstrong - Jana, as the oldest girl, probably identified with the children over the parents (a huge no-no) and Jessa identified with herself (and later Jinger) as opposed to the group. But neither identified with Jim Bob and Michelle first and foremost, and weren't afraid to show it.

Good for them, but geez, I can imagine the yelling their parents did before they saw the Gothard light and started the "training" and then the "training" itself. (Shudder)

[Absolom]

 

That would be hilarious if Jill or Jessa had to go back and get married again because there was a paperwork problem.

My understanding is that in the case of lost or misfiled paperwork the officiant can file an affidavit and no new ceremony is required and nothing is backdated.  That is if the problem is on the end of the county.  If the officiant doesn't file the paperwork properly, then it can get complicated and I expect the procedure varies by state and circumstance. Thus why my nervous nellies went with the guy who could issue the marriage certificate and had decades of experience.