Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Notabug]

15 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I don’t know for sure what she would do if David put his foot down, but triggering a narcissist’s wrath is never pleasant .

Whether passively or actively. David condones Jill's griftiness.  I suspect he's one of those low energy, passive people who is perfectly content to sit on his butt and let her manage things.  He's got no motivation, no ambition; his whole life is about avoiding hard work.  Marrying Jill was the key to making his dreams come true with virtually no effort on his part.

[Minivanessa]

18 hours ago, Notabug said:

Whether passively or actively. David condones Jill's griftiness.  I suspect he's one of those low energy, passive people who is perfectly content to sit on his butt and let her manage things.  He's got no motivation, no ambition; his whole life is about avoiding hard work.  Marrying Jill was the key to making his dreams come true with virtually no effort on his part.

I'm sure if you asked, he would say that God called him to preach the true Gospel of the Correct Jesus, and he is engaged in that work. Someone here, quite awhile ago, gave an informative rundown of how those traveling "missionary" preachers/families in the fundie/IFB world operate. The man is the headship, because women can't preach in church. The wife may speak to women's groups, and the family may perform religious music. If the man's a really good preacher, the family will be in more demand than if he isn't, and if that's supplemented by a talented wife and kids, all the better.

What we see as grifting by the Rods, I'm sure they characterize as being supported by "free will offerings." (My eyes were rolling as I typed that sentence just now.)

IMO, and I don't think I'm an outlier, David's not a gifted preacher, and Jill may be a better speaker than David though limited to women's groups, and the family's musical performances are lackluster (to put it mildly). I think they scrounge around, appearing at small churches, receiving small "free will offerings" from those. Also, maybe Jill is consciously keeping her young daughters looking raggedy and in need of care, to prompt pity offerings to increase the take. 

What a contrast with The Wissman Family. I suppose the Wissmans' theology is the same as, or very similar to, the Rods. But they bring higher level skills to their music, and seem to be overall better educated and more successful in life in general. I don't think that Dad Wissman also preaches, but they call their gigs a ministry. I love this statement from the "Ministry" page on their website: "We have been blessed to be able to truly say, “The Lord is our Provider”! We travel on a love-gift offering basis, trusting God to meet our needs through the generosity of His people. If you prefer not to have a free-will offering, please let us know and we will negotiate enough to cover our needs."  (I added the bolding.) IOW, we trust the Lord but we're realistic about money. We discussed the Wissmans when whats-his-J-name got engaged to Hannah W, and IIRC most of the Wissmans have "real" jobs and/or businesses. They don't float along on handouts and love offerings like the Rods. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Jeeves
used a wrong word

[oliviabenson]

How many love offerings Jill gives to others? I bet $0. She barely mentions her ma or visits her. 
 

Dave is a lazy slug and Jill is a greedy $ hungry modest Christian unsluttish perfect wife.

[Absolom]

David used to work a real job so he knows the routine.  He gave that up over a flimsy excuse and took up the grifting life.  

[Future Cat Lady]

I know people see David as a blob who does nothing while Jill runs the whole show, and it might mostly be true. But it doesn't mean he has no authority. He might let Jill do all the ''work'', but he may be the one making all the decisions. I would also not be surprised if he's authoritarian with the children. 

[Ohiopirate02]

13 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I'm sure if you asked, he would say that God called him to preach the true Gospel of the Correct Jesus, and he is engaged in that work. Someone here, quite awhile ago, gave an informative rundown of how those traveling "missionary" preachers/families in the fundie/IFB world operate. The man is the headship, because women can't preach in church. The wife may speak to women's groups, and the family may perform religious music. If the man's a really good preacher, the family will be in more demand than if he isn't, and if that's supplemented by a talented wife and kids, all the better.

What we see as grifting by the Rods, I'm sure they characterize as being supported by "free will offerings." (My eyes were rolling as I typed that sentence just now.)

IMO, and I don't think I'm an outlier, David's not a gifted preacher, and Jill may be a better speaker than David though limited to women's groups, and the family's musical performances are lackluster (to put it mildly). I think they scrounge around, appearing at small churches, receiving small "free will offerings" from those. Also, maybe Jill is consciously keeping her young daughters looking raggedy and in need of care, to prompt pity offerings to increase the take. 

Given the way the boys are dressed, I strongly suspect Jill is doing this.  The boys are always neat and someone is definitely ironing their shirts and pants.  Their shirts are always tucked in and their hair is properly combed.  

[Notabug]

9 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I know people see David as a blob who does nothing while Jill runs the whole show, and it might mostly be true. But it doesn't mean he has no authority. He might let Jill do all the ''work'', but he may be the one making all the decisions. I would also not be surprised if he's authoritarian with the children. 

I'm sure he is and I expect that he has 'trained' Jill to keep the kids out of his way.  He does nothing because that is what HE wants.  Jill couldn't do what she does without his tacit approval.  If she's really a Christian helpmeet as she professes, she can only sell Plexus, post online, raise money and mistreat her kids because that is what David wants, too.  He tells her she is done with Plexus and she resigns,  He tells her their kids are getting a crappy homeschool education and they need to be enrolled in public schools; it happens.  He'll never do that; but he holds the key.

[Future Cat Lady]

10 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I'm sure he is and I expect that he has 'trained' Jill to keep the kids out of his way.  He does nothing because that is what HE wants.  Jill couldn't do what she does without his tacit approval.  If she's really a Christian helpmeet as she professes, she can only sell Plexus, post online, raise money and mistreat her kids because that is what David wants, too.  He tells her she is done with Plexus and she resigns,  He tells her their kids are getting a crappy homeschool education and they need to be enrolled in public schools; it happens.  He'll never do that; but he holds the key.

I don’t know why you’re arguing with me, but my point is that David is not some innocent victim of Jill like the kids are. Some people seem to think that Jill is leading David by the balls as if he has no say in it, but I don’t think he’s as passive as we some may think.

[Notabug]

Just now, Future Cat Lady said:

I don’t know why you’re arguing with me, but my point is that David is not some innocent victim of Jill like the kids are. Some people seem to think that Jill is leading David by the balls as if he has no say in it, but I don’t think he’s as passive as we some may think.

Sorry, I wasn't arguing.  I thought I was actually agreeing that, although David seems passive, by the nature of their 'Christian' marriage, Jill can only do what she does with his seemingly silent approval.

[SMama]

I read on another board that David asked Jill to tone down the makeup and not post everything on SM.Jill allegedly made an argument for the need for makeup (femininity, blah, Jesus) and to keep posting because it keeps people interested in their so called ministry. I asked for clarification/source but no one answered (and it got quite a few likes. Has anyone heard of this or knows the origin of it’s myth?

[crazy8s]

36 minutes ago, Notabug said:

I'm sure he is and I expect that he has 'trained' Jill to keep the kids out of his way. 

I believe this is true.  We have often seen the kids involved in some jillcentric activity while David is in his recliner watching his map. I found the video Jill posted this past easter quite telling on how things work. David is asleep in the recliner and the "older children", Tessie on up, and Jonathan, were doing their egg hunt tip toeing around him and whispering the entire time. No cackling laughter from Jill at all. Same with the retreat mailing video - 11pm and the kids are silently working while david is watching tv in the recliner.

As far as david's "preaching" he openly admitted on video at some church that he has 3 or 4 sermons he uses over and over for their traveling events. He is shown sitting at the sound board at their grifting events but their sound if awful. Sam and Gabe are most often shown setting things up so I bet at most David turns mics on and off.

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

The man is the headship, because women can't preach in church. The wife may speak to women's groups, and the family may perform religious music. If the man's a really good preacher, the family will be in more demand than if he isn't, and if that's supplemented by a talented wife and kids, all the better.

And that is what the Rods aspire too.   Sadly, David is a lackluster preacher, and the family's "performances" are just caterwauling.   Jill THINKS they are this awesome Right Jeebus Von Trapp family when what they are is .... well ... not.   

Although I gotta admire the grift.   I would love for other people to pay me to travel all the time.  I'm sure I could come up with an interesting talk to give.   

[crazy8s]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

Although I gotta admire the grift.   I would love for other people to pay me to travel all the time.  I'm sure I could come up with an interesting talk to give.   

well you would already be ahead of the rods there.😂

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

David used to work a real job so he knows the routine.  He gave that up over a flimsy excuse and took up the grifting life.  

Exactly. He had no problem giving up working and a steady paycheck to do nothing and grift. He has no problem grifting people. Taking their money and offerings or draining his son-in-law of money for food, restaurants and other fun things for himself and his wife. If he cared about his kids not getting much to eat or dressing like the way they do. He'd say something or do something. But he doesn't care. As long as he gets what he wants that's all that matters.

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

And that is what the Rods aspire too.   Sadly, David is a lackluster preacher, and the family's "performances" are just caterwauling.   Jill THINKS they are this awesome Right Jeebus Von Trapp family when what they are is .... well ... not.   

Although I gotta admire the grift.   I would love for other people to pay me to travel all the time.  I'm sure I could come up with an interesting talk to give.   

I'm not so sure I admire the grift. I still can't figure out why people still keep giving them money. They make no secret of spending it on themselves and always come back with a hand out.

[crazy8s]

Just watched the opening of weekly chapel time at Phillip's bible school. Phillip is still attending he was sitting in the 2nd row. Announcement made that 2nd tuition payment is due Nov 11. Veteran's Day, so honor those who fought for our country by paying your bill on time or get a late fee of $25. Wonder if Phillip has enough saved for the second payment.

[BradandJanet]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Exactly. He had no problem giving up working and a steady paycheck to do nothing and grift. He has no problem grifting people. Taking their money and offerings or draining his son-in-law of money for food, restaurants and other fun things for himself and his wife. If he cared about his kids not getting much to eat or dressing like the way they do. He'd say something or do something. But he doesn't care. As long as he gets what he wants that's all that matters.

Jill and David have done little more than give birth to their kids and taught them to fear going to hell. The kids are uneducated, poorly clothed, and underfed. They also do the housework and travel in a crowded van to perform for food and money. 

The kids suffer because their parents won't work, but when they become young adults, Jill and David expect them and their spouses to sponsor vacations, shopping, restaurant meals, hotels, parties, nice gifts, and whatever--all the stuff the kids never got growing up because of their parents' choices.  

Jill and David will be mooching off of their poor kids until the day they die. 

[Lady Edith]

So what keeps me up at night wondering is this…the Rods sing at a church. People fall for their grift and give money, because jaysauce. Two months later Jill’s SM and website are flooded with photos of vacation.  New add-ons and decor for the barndo.  New clothes and jewelry for Jilly. Ad nauseum. And the people supporting all this can’t do a fraction of what the Rods do. So why do people NOT see what is happening?  I swear to Lord Daniel of the Laundramat, both my hunk and I work full-time. We live in a modest home uncluttered by tchotchkes because we can’t afford extras.  We go on one vacation a year, with other people, so we can split a rental home and reduce costs. I can’t tell you the last time we had a restaurant meal out.  And we work!  Hard! As do most of the people falling for the grift. So when will people see the REAL truth and the bottom falls out?  

[Snow Fairy]

Which kid was supposed to go to Hungary? Is he there? I missed that part

[Tdoc72]

10 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Given the way the boys are dressed, I strongly suspect Jill is doing this.  The boys are always neat and someone is definitely ironing their shirts and pants.  Their shirts are always tucked in and their hair is properly combed.  

Jill might tell them what they will wear & buy it, but no way is she washing or ironing. That’s the not-Nurie’s jobs. 

[Salacious Kitty]

18 minutes ago, Snow Fairy said:

Which kid was supposed to go to Hungary? Is he there? I missed that part

That's Phillip. He's currently at Bible "college." I think they have a missionary track that's 3 years. Let's see if he has the money to pony up the next installment for his tuition, due 11/11, first. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Salacious Kitty

[libgirl2]

4 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

That's Phillip. He's currently at Bible "college." I think they have a missionary track that's 3 years. Let's see if he has the money to pony up the next installment for his tuition, due 11/11, first. 

I get a feeling he won't and we will hear some kind of story about why he left. I really hope that isn't the case. I am sure he is happy there. 

[BetyBee]

49 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I get a feeling he won't and we will hear some kind of story about why he left. I really hope that isn't the case. I am sure he is happy there. 

The story is likely that "Jesus laid it on his heart to mow lawns for $$ and to guest preach whenever possible to serve the Lord" or something like that. Jill will add a dis to Philip's former college, noting that it's no dang good and totally unnecessary for Philip's future.

[SMama]

51 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

The story is likely that "Jesus laid it on his heart to mow lawns for $$ and to guest preach whenever possible to serve the Lord" or something like that. Jill will add a dis to Philip's former college, noting that it's no dang good and totally unnecessary for Philip's future.

And this is one of the many reasons why Tim has not found a wife, and unless things change I don’t see the Rod boys able to support a wife. 
 

BME and DBD really have rendered their able bodied children helpless and hapless. Barely educated, devoid of social skills, malnourished, and their only skill is the grift. Their knowledge of SM/computers is what BME allows them to have through her account. Imagine if all kids worked part time jobs starting at age 16, saved their money, and learned to navigate the real world. 

[BradandJanet]

I think the Bible college helps its students find jobs. Classes are held in the mornings only, leaving the afternoons free to work. And study, I suppose. 

Phillip may be working and making enough to pay for at least part of his expenses. The tuition is low, but there are a lot of fees and extras. Phillip should know by now he can't depend on his parents to stay interested in his "burden." 

I keep thinking of all the money Nathan and Nurie will have in the bank after the sale of their first house is completed. I think Nathan will financing a lot of the Rods' activities. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by BradandJanet
"Burden" is the Rods' word, not mine.

[crazy8s]

Jill has fb post today on how far behind they get on the printing ministry work when they travel. For people that claim the printing gig is what god has called them to do, they sure seem to give it about a day or two a month when the do a giant order that looks impressive for Jill to post.

This one shows Kaylee, Gabe, Hannah and Renee or Tessie (I didn't pay attention). lucky children got to listen to a sermon on kaylee's  modern smart phone while they worked. Then we get a blurb from soon to be married kaylee how blessed and honored she has been by serving jesus through the printing ministry. But she will be married soon so no more folding tracts for her.

[Turquoise]

3 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Jill has fb post today on how far behind they get on the printing ministry work when they travel. For people that claim the printing gig is what god has called them to do, they sure seem to give it about a day or two a month when the do a giant order that looks impressive for Jill to post.

This one shows Kaylee, Gabe, Hannah and Renee or Tessie (I didn't pay attention). lucky children got to listen to a sermon on kaylee's  modern smart phone while they worked. Then we get a blurb from soon to be married kaylee how blessed and honored she has been by serving jesus through the printing ministry. But she will be married soon so no more folding tracts for her.

I was just writing about this when I saw you already posted. Sounded like a hostage speech...er, I mean SUCH a BLESSING for NotNurie #1!

[GeeGolly]

What, the kids aren't allowed to push the button on the printer when David is not there? It seems to me that is the easiest part.

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, Turquoise said:

I was just writing about this when I saw you already posted. Sounded like a hostage speech...er, I mean SUCH a BLESSING for NotNurie #1!

I thought of Jim Jones droning on and on over the loudspeakers....... 

[Turquoise]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

I thought of Jim Jones droning on and on over the loudspeakers....... 

Yeah, I got that vibe from the sermon as well. I was talking about Kaylee's rehearsed speech about how HAPPY she has been working in the ministry her parents take credit for.

[SMama]

Is Kaylee’s smart phone new? I can’t see BME & DBD buying her one. A gift from Jonathan?

[libgirl2]

7 minutes ago, SMama said:

Is Kaylee’s smart phone new? I can’t see BME & DBD buying her one. A gift from Jonathan?

I'm sure it was. 

[BradandJanet]

Given the cost of keeping the stink van up and running as often as it is, I doubt the love offerings amount to enough to cover the costs of the trips. The kids get meals from the churches, so that's good. The missionary salary the Rods receive from the clearinghouse must be worth it to keep that tired old thing (Jill? van?) on the road. 

[crazy8s]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

Is Kaylee’s smart phone new? I can’t see BME & DBD buying her one. A gift from Jonathan?

The rods have been shown with multiple smart phones in Jill's posts. Even back to the fun swimming in the drainage ditch Jill and 2 or 3 of the girls were shown taking video with phones. David and Timothy have smart phones. Only poor Phillip has a flip phone, as shown when the clan invaded his college outing.

[libgirl2]

17 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

The rods have been shown with multiple smart phones in Jill's posts. Even back to the fun swimming in the drainage ditch Jill and 2 or 3 of the girls were shown taking video with phones. David and Timothy have smart phones. Only poor Phillip has a flip phone, as shown when the clan invaded his college outing.

That is true. 

[oliviabenson]

She is moving a few miles away she is not dying . Jeez.

I bet Jill left 1,900 tracts in sea world. Maybe she tells her church $$$ donors that she will win souls for Jesus in FL. 
 

People keep giving them $$$ I just don’t know why. 
 

Imagine the family income if all adults got jobs. 
 

[SMama]

3 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

She is moving a few miles away she is not dying . Jeez.

Translation: I will miss having a servant at my beck and call 24/7.

Jill is so full of shit. Kaylee will profess the Lord laid it in her heart to be at the barndo while Jonathan works to invest in the lives of her siblings. That’s what Jill and Joy said upon marriage. 

[oliviabenson]

[libgirl2]

8 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

Two words -- fire hazard. Mainly due to Hunk's wonderful electricity work. 

[ALittleShelfish]

That's a lot of future trash piled up right there.

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, ALittleShelfish said:

That's a lot of future trash piled up right there.

and wasted trees. 

[oliviabenson]

57 minutes ago, SMama said:

Translation: I will miss having a servant at my beck and call 24/7.

Jill is so full of shit. Kaylee will profess the Lord laid it in her heart to be at the barndo while Jonathan works to invest in the lives of her siblings. That’s what Jill and Joy said upon marriage. 

More like Jill and family will go over to Kaylees house daily to eat all their food. No way Jill will leave her alone. Well except when she goes on her bi monthly vacations.

[oliviabenson]

If Philips “college” is 3 years there is no way he will graduate. His parents will not pay $1 toward his expenses.

[BradandJanet]

Most people with a full-time job like serving Jesus, as Jill claims, don't get to take long, fancy vacations multiple times a year. Full-timers also don't hold a second job (Plexus), a third job grifting and fundraising, and a fourth job (Creamy Ivory sales stall) at the same time. They're too busy. 

Jesus must be a pretty clueless boss, and a cheap one at that. 

[farmgal4]

On 10/25/2022 at 8:34 AM, crazy8s said:

so did the rod kids stay with Ma and Pa while Jill and Hunk were in florida and they stopped on the way back to pick them up? I can see them driving the fam to W.V. in the RV and then renting a car there to continue to florida.

surely they are back in ohio fixing up Jonathan and Kaylee built in 1850, almost Amish, house that is surely so much better than those modern houses most worldly people live in these days.

The worship folder/bulletin thing for the Hill's church in MS has a blurb about prayers for safe travel for the Hill family who will be traveling to attend Jonathan's wedding Nov. 5.

Surely the Rod offspring were able to stay home alone while Jill and DBD were gallivanting around FL.  There are 4 adult children still living there.  Surely they’re responsible enough to hold down the fort while their POS parents are gone.

[farmgal4]

On 10/26/2022 at 12:36 PM, merylinkid said:

Do we know for sure she would do that?   I mean it can be assumed but do we really know?   I think it is more likely that he is 100% behind his wife's grift.   We know he does his "preaching" on the tours so they can bring in money.   Which means he is an active participant, not just someone dragged along.

but then they couldn't go  on vacation every time they wanted.   Or get free meals at the NICE Olive Garden because people would expect to them to pay their own.   They are grifters because they want to be.

Yes, that and also because, for them, grifting is lucrative, David is lazy af and Jill’s a narcissist who thinks the world revolves around her and her wants and needs.

[farmgal4]

On 10/26/2022 at 12:38 PM, Cinnabon said:

I don’t know for sure what she would do if David put his foot down, but triggering a narcissist’s wrath is never pleasant .

Truer words have never been spoken.

[farmgal4]

20 hours ago, crazy8s said:

Just watched the opening of weekly chapel time at Phillip's bible school. Phillip is still attending he was sitting in the 2nd row. Announcement made that 2nd tuition payment is due Nov 11. Veteran's Day, so honor those who fought for our country by paying your bill on time or get a late fee of $25. Wonder if Phillip has enough saved for the second payment.

Did you get to watch the hyper-handed song director?  That guy is just…different.  Lol

[farmgal4]

13 hours ago, Lady Edith said:

So what keeps me up at night wondering is this…the Rods sing at a church. People fall for their grift and give money, because jaysauce. Two months later Jill’s SM and website are flooded with photos of vacation.  New add-ons and decor for the barndo.  New clothes and jewelry for Jilly. Ad nauseum. And the people supporting all this can’t do a fraction of what the Rods do. So why do people NOT see what is happening?  I swear to Lord Daniel of the Laundramat, both my hunk and I work full-time. We live in a modest home uncluttered by tchotchkes because we can’t afford extras.  We go on one vacation a year, with other people, so we can split a rental home and reduce costs. I can’t tell you the last time we had a restaurant meal out.  And we work!  Hard! As do most of the people falling for the grift. So when will people see the REAL truth and the bottom falls out?  

I ponder this subject a lot, as well.  I would be greatly surprised if anyone who has ever contributed to the Rod love offerings throughout the years has enjoyed as many vacations as the Rods have (and especially Jill and David). **In proofreading this it doesn’t look exactly right but I’m too tired to start all over.  Please forgive any grammatical errors, and I hope you can somehow figure out what I tried to say.**

[Salacious Kitty]

11 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I ponder this subject a lot, as well.  I would be greatly surprised if anyone who has ever contributed to the Rod love offerings throughout the years has enjoyed as many vacations as the Rods have (and especially Jill and David). **In proofreading this it doesn’t look exactly right but I’m too tired to start all over.  Please forgive any grammatical errors, and I hope you can somehow figure out what I tried to say.**

Nobody except the independently wealthy go on as many vacations as these nimrods. Even the kids travel more than most, even if it's the same places every year. They're are a few different places each year, so it's not that monotonous. Then of course BME and DBD go on their special trips that cost thousands. I always wonder how people continue to fall for the grift. 

[farmgal4]

6 hours ago, Turquoise said:

I was just writing about this when I saw you already posted. Sounded like a hostage speech...er, I mean SUCH a BLESSING for NotNurie #1!

A hostage speech complete with the breathy, high-pitched, singsong “Bye” and wave at the end of it.