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Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

OSM Mom

By OSM Mom
in Counting On

cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

Is it different with John David? It seems like he lives elsewhere but he is well below the radar and there don't seem any issues with him similar to Josh's

 

An excellent point. If John-David DOES live independently - and I think he does - then the pervert factor must be making the difference here. Boob & Me-chelle don't seem to have any issues with John-David having struck out on his own to a certain extent. I don't think they'd pitch fits about the other boys either. The girls? No way - but boys? Yeah sure, why not? Of course it could just appear to us that he lives alone, because they want us to think that they're normal. Unfortunately that ship has sailed, Boob. 

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doodlebug
doodlebug

I'm from a fairly big city and raised mostly in town though also the suburbs.  I've had the same experience.  I attend a Catholic church and am active in several volunteer things there including medic

Aja
Aja

Once again, Michelle, I'm going to have to bum you out with a big old steaming pile of fact: I was born a girl, I'm glad to be a girl, I'm very feminine looking, I love being feminine looking...AND I'

doodlebug
doodlebug

Happens all the time.  Had someone tell us they couldn't pay the bill for prenatal care because they were building a new house and couldn't spare the money.  Another had just bought a new car.  BTW, i

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

(edited)

I don't think Michelle is book smart, but she's incredibly shrewd. She has 19 children, but hasn't lifted a finger in over ten years. It takes some guile to pull that off.

 

I think maybe even calling Me-chelle "shrewd" is giving her too much credit. If it's shrewd, it was the only shrewd thing she's ever done. I think her ability to get others to do her work is simply due to experience growing up as a petted and spoiled lastborn. It's rare for parents to expect a lastborn to tow the same line as older siblings. Parents have more expectations for older children - to become responsible, to do chores, to keep an eye on some of the younger sibs on occasion etc. They know who their older kids' friends are more often than not, they're more engaged in general. But no matter how many kids parents will have, they tend to get tuckered out toward the end. Youngest children often grow up in a MUCH more relaxed and unstructured environment. Hard-and-fast rules and requirements that older children were subject to no longer apply, or they apply but are never really enforced. Often Lastborns are treated as adorable but befuddled little darlings. Parents often do things for a youngest child that they'd never consider doing for older kids at the same age, and they often make excuses for the lastborn too. Even when the Lastborn is capable, he may not be required to show it. Me-chelle's experience as a lastborn was what showed her most clearly how to get other people to do her work for her. In her case, I'm guessing tears played a big part, tears and drama and the whole nine yards.

Edited by Wellfleet
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I think maybe even calling Me-chelle "shrewd" is giving her too much credit. If it's shrewd, it was the only shrewd thing she's ever done. I think her ability to get others to do her work is simply due to experience growing up as a petted and spoiled lastborn. It's rare for parents to expect a lastborn to tow the same line as older siblings. Parents have more expectations for older children - to become responsible, to do chores, to keep an eye on some of the younger sibs on occasion etc. They know who their older kids' friends are more often than not, they're more engaged in general. But no matter how many kids parents will have, then tend to get tuckered out toward the end. Youngest children often grow up in a MUCH more relaxed and unstructured environment. Hard-and-fast rules and requirements for older children no longer apply, or they apply but are never really enforced. Often the Lastborn is treated as adorable but befuddled little darlings. Parents often do things for a youngest child that they'd never consider doing for older kids at the same age, and they often make excuses for the lastborn too. Even when the Lastborn is capable, he may not be required to show it. Me-chelle's experience as a lastborn was what showed her most clearly how to get other people to do her work for her. In her case, I'm guessing tears played a big part, tears and drama and the whole nine yards.

I don't know. While I agree with most of your post, last borns are sometimes more mature and responsible because the parents have been lax in parenting, and they had to watch out for themselves.

 

Michelle did have a job at 16 years old, and we know she mowed the lawn at least once. But I think her breakdown freaked JB out, and he wanted to keep her, so I think he was the shrewd one.

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

I don't know. While I agree with most of your post, last borns are sometimes more mature and responsible because the parents have been lax in parenting, and they had to watch out for themselves.

 

Michelle did have a job at 16 years old, and we know she mowed the lawn at least once. But I think her breakdown freaked JB out, and he wanted to keep her, so I think he was the shrewd one.

 

Yes, this is true. There are positives about being a youngest - this is one of them. I do wonder though. How eager would Me-chelle be if she had had to mow that lawn in jeans and a tee shirt? She certainly has fixated on that particular incident - it seems like a real point of pride for her.

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Joe Jitsu913

Joe Jitsu913

Yes, this is true. There are positives about being a youngest - this is one of them. I do wonder though. How eager would Me-chelle be if she had had to mow that lawn in jeans and a tee shirt? She certainly has fixated on that particular incident - it seems like a real point of pride for her.

Deep down, she probably IS proud of it. It was probably one of the last times she was allowed to be herself and feel sexy. Now it's ugly clown collars and blue shirts with black stockings and shoes. I bet Michelle wishes she could feel that free again.

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louannems

louannems

I don't know. While I agree with most of your post, last borns are sometimes more mature and responsible because the parents have been lax in parenting, and they had to watch out for themselves.

 

Michelle did have a job at 16 years old, and we know she mowed the lawn at least once. But I think her breakdown freaked JB out, and he wanted to keep her, so I think he was the shrewd one.

If your wife has a breakdown after a dozen or so kids, why in the world would a husband get her pregnant a half dozen MORE times!!! Get a vasectomy so no little fetuses get murdered from the evil birth control pills!!

If your oldest child does wrong sexual things to his own sisters, and you KNOW he's doing it, WHY make many more babies? Why, why why???

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Marigold

Marigold

Every time I see that mini golf humping video, I think...

1. Jim Bob is emotionally stunted at a 15 year old level. "hey look, guys, I'm getting laid! Look, look, everyone! I'm having SEX!!!!".

2. Michelle is so not into Jim Bob. He embarasses her greatly. Jim Bob has no awareness of his wife's feelings or he has just decided that they don't matter.

3. Jim Bob is highly inappropriate in front of his daughter and future son in law. HIGHLY inappropriate. Very bizarre behavior to dry hump your wife in front of Jessa and Ben with TLC cameras rolling. A psychologist could have a field day with this analysis.

When I see that humping video, I actually feel sorry for Michelle.

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OSM Mom

OSM Mom

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If your wife has a breakdown after a dozen or so kids, why in the world would a husband get her pregnant a half dozen MORE times!!! Get a vasectomy so no little fetuses get murdered from the evil birth control pills!!

If your oldest child does wrong sexual things to his own sisters, and you KNOW he's doing it, WHY make many more babies? Why, why why???

Because then you're messing with God's will... Or some shit like that..

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queenanne

queenanne

They do like to brag on each other, but only for the holy, Godly qualities they have, or the helpful things they do for the family, like packing, cooking, cleaning, whatever. When they do, uncharacteristically, say something complimentary that doesn't have to do with God or being the un-hired help, it's always something that leaves me shaking my head and saying "Wha... !?!?"

 

Like DuggBoy #Whatever is "adventurous" or J-Girl #??? is "funny" - I've never seen ANY of the kids being either of those things ! On the rare occasion I have seen any kind of individuality it disappeared, and quickly. 

 

JB and Michelle are like a big, huge pair of shoes whose main occupation is to stomp about, squashing everything in their sight. Any kind of playfulness, personality, curiosity, or independence gets smashed quickly so the "normal" vapid blandness can remain center stage. 

 

I keep wondering how they ever got a show at all, or kept it, after the initial draw of the Big Family wore off. I'm boring myself talking abut how boring they are...

 

 

Michelle did have a job at 16 years old, and we know she mowed the lawn at least once. 

 

You guys are funny.  (And SomePity, I want to like the big-shoes analogy 1,000 times.)  That's exactly what it's like!

 

And don't let's forget the double-clothing standard.  Boychildren can wear the same outfits as other people in the world, and shorts, and look like something normal. One holiday we died laughing because my father swore that my oldest female cousin was wearing the exact same Christmas dress as they'd put on Melissa Gilbert during a Little House Christmas episode - and found the images to prove it.

 

He was not joking.

 

The literal.  Exact.  Same.  Dress.  Pattern, collar, everything.  We LOLed!

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kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

My theory on how JimBob and Michelle ended up together, and eventually went to crazy town, is as follows:

Michelle is a pretty and popular high school cheerleader, but is overshadowed by her taller leggier prettier blonde friend Cindy, which makes Michelle insecure. JimBob meets insecure Michelle working at grandmas frozen yogurt place, and wins her over with non stop gushing adoration. Relationship gets sort of serious after a couple of years, and then Michelle's dad announces the family is moving back to Ohio. 18 year old JimBob is totally devoted to 17 year old Michelle, and he wants her to stay, so he asks her to marry him. Michelle says yes, and her parents consent. They get maried a few days after his 19th birthday, in (the year of our lord) 1984.

They live a fairly normal life for the next 4 years, both working, they both worked in real estate at one point, and Michelle uses birth control. Michelle gives birth to a son in March 1988. Michelle has a miscarriage within the next year, the couple meets Dr Ed Wheat, and the spectacle begins.

Edited by Kokapetl
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

If your wife has a breakdown after a dozen or so kids, why in the world would a husband get her pregnant a half dozen MORE times!!! Get a vasectomy so no little fetuses get murdered from the evil birth control pills!!

If your oldest child does wrong sexual things to his own sisters, and you KNOW he's doing it, WHY make many more babies? Why, why why???

 

Because you are all ego and a mile wide! And you're also stupid enough to feel your ego boosted simply by having tons of your genetic offspring running about so you can browbeat them into internalizing all your monumentally stupid ideas.

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Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

My theory on how JimBob and Michelle ended up together, and eventually went to crazy town, is as follows:

 

I disagree. I think there was something else going on as well -- what parents in their right mind would allow a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old to get married? I'm looking at you, Grandma Duggar. The "moving to another state" excuse does not wash, especially with Jim Boob's subsequent behavior.

 

As some have already mentioned, wouldn't the response have been "if you still feel the same way when you're done with college or you work and save until you're 21, we'll talk about it"? This didn't happen in a vacuum. J-Chelle wanted out of the house, and her parents wanted her out. We can only speculate as to why.

 

Nobody joins a cult because they're well-adjusted and emotionally healthy. I believe J-Chelle's breakdown was an excuse, too. And anyone who would continue to impregnate a woman who'd already had mental and emotional issues due to the size of their family is not doing it for religious reasons. I really can't stand J-Chelle Duggar, but it's abuse.

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floridamom

floridamom

Michele's parents didn't agree wholeheartedly with Michelle getting married to anyone at 17. Her father didn't agree at all; her mother was hesitant if I remember correctly as it was accounted years later. Michelle nagged her mother to convince her father to give his consent, as she was 17 and needed it for legal reasons. Finally after nagging her mother; her mom convinced her father to "let her marry him" so she would shut up, basically and quit nagging them as yes, they were going to move to North Carolina from Arkansas. (She was born in Ohio). One of her sisters said on the show, early on, that Michelle was a willful child and when she didn't get her way, or her parents said "no" to her, she only pursued things more. So, this is no different, folks, she strong armed her parents in to this "blessing of consent". She was no angel if you ask me. (Not judging that I'm better than her, but you know how they bill themselves now)...Her parents, who were up in years certainly by then seemed to give in to her demands just to have some peace as they didn't have the energy to "fight her". Heck, who lets their daughter get married without a wedding gown? She wore her future mother in law's dress....not her mothers, or even an inexpensive one of her own. I thought that was strange and brought many questions to my head about how this really went down in 1984...she marrie weeks after graduating high school...

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

I disagree. I think there was something else going on as well -- what parents in their right mind would allow a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old to get married? I'm looking at you, Grandma Duggar. The "moving to another state" excuse does not wash, especially with Jim Boob's subsequent behavior.

 

As some have already mentioned, wouldn't the response have been "if you still feel the same way when you're done with college or you work and save until you're 21, we'll talk about it"? This didn't happen in a vacuum. J-Chelle wanted out of the house, and her parents wanted her out. We can only speculate as to why.

 

I'm not so sure. Admittedly, I'm about a decade older than JB and M but quite a few people I went to high school with married soon after graduation. And that included quite a few who were not with child! And both people who intended to go to college and those who didn't. I think it varies a lot from family to family and even community to community. I can easily see the "family is moving" thing used as a reason, too. The kid would demand to remain  behind, and the parents find it preferable to have him/her remain behind as a married member of another family, with in-laws who would help look after the couple, rather than having the kid remain behind unmarried and, thus, probably fooling around in the unmarried state and ripe to be abandoned or to abandon if pregnancy happened. If your kid doesn't intend to go to college -- and it seems as if Michelle didn't? -- then what's your real leverage once that kid gets out of high school? And if she remained in Arkansaas, she could conceivably become part of a then-moving-onto-its-4th-generation real-estate business -- which she did -- instead of going to her own family's new home without a plan or any set occupation and being incredibly pissy and maybe running off. I can see many families doing it the way you suggest, but I can see it happening this way, too. And i certainly know of both kinds of situations.

Edited by Churchhoney
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theirblacksheep

theirblacksheep

 

I thought that was strange and brought many questions to my head about how this really went down in 1984...she marrie weeks after graduating high school...

 

 

The real first miscarriage...

 

Exactly my thoughts when I read the above. I would not be surprised if that was close to the truth.

 

My first post and I don't quite have the hang of using quotes yet. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
\

 One also has to wonder if he has any idea of the fact his children don't seem to get along very well in real life.

 

I'm about a 100 percent sure that this question doesn't even occur to him because the kids aren't real people to him. In his mind, he's the only real person. He only registers them insofar as they act in accordance with his wishes, or don't. So if they left or acted rebellious because they don't like each other much, he'd freak. But he still wouldn't look for explanations in their feelings. It'd be -- Robots not doing as programmed! -- plain and simple. Having no empathy at all means that you don't see other beings as real. Boob has zero empathy, I expect.

 

Some people with no empathy become serial killers. Boob became a killer of children's souls and autonomy. In either case, no ruth about what they do.

Edited by Churchhoney
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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

I disagree. I think there was something else going on as well -- what parents in their right mind would allow a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old to get married? I'm looking at you, Grandma Duggar. The "moving to another state" excuse does not wash, especially with Jim Boob's subsequent behavior.

 

As some have already mentioned, wouldn't the response have been "if you still feel the same way when you're done with college or you work and save until you're 21, we'll talk about it"? This didn't happen in a vacuum. J-Chelle wanted out of the house, and her parents wanted her out. We can only speculate as to why.

 

Nobody joins a cult because they're well-adjusted and emotionally healthy. I believe J-Chelle's breakdown was an excuse, too. And anyone who would continue to impregnate a woman who'd already had mental and emotional issues due to the size of their family is not doing it for religious reasons. I really can't stand J-Chelle Duggar, but it's abuse.

 

I still think there's a strong possibility that Me-chelle got pregnant during her last semester in high school and that's when their own plans changed and they suddenly and desperately wanted to get married. Even though the Ruarks were moving away. That wedding happened so quickly Me-chelle had to use Grandma Duggar's dress. And the first baby was lost for whatever reason at some point after that. And they're now stuck together and times were tough. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the financial guy - ??? and his "no debt" seminars were at least part of the catalyst that sent Boob into Gothardism. But I'm not clear on the timeline for all that and I could be completely off kilter in that regard. I thought Boob got into the No Debt way of living fairly early in the marriage.

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BradandJanet

BradandJanet

If your wife has a breakdown after a dozen or so kids, why in the world would a husband get her pregnant a half dozen MORE times!!! Get a vasectomy so no little fetuses get murdered from the evil birth control pills!!

 

 

If Jim Bob can't answer perhaps Quiver-husband Rusty Yates could weigh in. Of course, he fairly quickly moved on to a new marriage and another kid so he probably doesn't have much to say now. 

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awaken

awaken

I saw the golf course humping video in real time when it was aired, and was horrified, but re-watching now on my phone- can't fully make out Jessa's face.  Cannot imagine what was going through her head, and Ben's.  How horrifyingly embarrassing to have your parents behave like that in front of their daughter and fiancee who are supposedly innocent of all of that.  Like, THIS is what we have to look forward to!  Yippee!!!

 

I disagree. I think there was something else going on as well -- what parents in their right mind would allow a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old to get married? I'm looking at you, Grandma Duggar. The "moving to another state" excuse does not wash, especially with Jim Boob's subsequent behavior.

 

As some have already mentioned, wouldn't the response have been "if you still feel the same way when you're done with college or you work and save until you're 21, we'll talk about it"? This didn't happen in a vacuum. J-Chelle wanted out of the house, and her parents wanted her out. We can only speculate as to why.

 

My parents did.....and no, they're not in their right minds.  unfortunately, not everyone has parents who are involved, who have their kids' best interests at heart, or who have any sway or involvement in what their 17or 18 yr olds are doing.  

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Vaysh

Vaysh

(edited)

Or, they were just two crazy kids in love...

 

Teenagers often act impulsively and don't always make choices that seem sensible. And honestly, Boob and Mechelle lived perfectly normal lives for years after they got married. Both worked, they used birth control, Michelle wore trousers. Then, at some point, they got caught up in the madness of Gothardism and never looked back but I've honestly never doubted their initial mutual attraction.

 

I think Jim'chelle hurried their marriage because Michelle's parents were moving out of state and they had to chose between her leaving with them (which in the mind of a teenager would be a horrible, life-destroying thing) or getting married. I agree with whomever said that a parent would be far more comfortable leaving their teenage daughter legally connected to another family rather than leaving her on her own several states away.

Edited by Vaysh
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Or, they were just two crazy kids in love...

 

Teenagers often act impulsively and don't always make choices that seem sensible. And honestly, Boob and Mechelle lived perfectly normal lives for years after they got married. Both worked, they used birth control, Michelle wore trousers. Then, at some point, they got caught up in the madness of Gothardism and never looked back but I've honestly never doubted their initial mutual attraction.

 

I think Jim'chelle hurried their marriage because Michelle's parents were moving out of state and they had to chose between her leaving with them (which in the mind of a teenager would be a horrible, life-destroying thing) or getting married. I agree with whomever said that a parent would be far more comfortable leaving their teenage daughter legally connected to another family rather than leaving her on her own several states away.

And yet JB & M won't let their children go to Starbucks alone.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

 I thought Boob got into the No Debt way of living fairly early in the marriage.

 

Probably  near the start. In Boob's case, though, it's not that he's against taking things from people. He's just against taking things that you're supposed to give back or pay for. It's not so much a No Debt way of life as a No Pay way of life. ha

And yet JB & M won't let their children go to Starbucks alone.

 

 

Control freaks don't generally seem to be people who've been controlled themselves. Not in my experience anyway. (Maybe they've never allowed it.) And they're definitely not logical. 

 

Control freaks live for the pleasure of pushing people around. And children are easy to push. Plus, if you play your cards right with the children, you'll get the even greater pleasure of pushing them around as adults, too. Boob has played his cards right. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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floridamom

floridamom

From what I have seen of their early lives and what they have stated about their early years of marriage, I think J'Chelle were two teenagers "playing house" when they got married. They also seemed to live a disorganized homelife...by that I mean they have said they had huge credit care debt, were glued to their TV and watched it hours at a time, etc. I think they really didn't have a plan nor did Michelle at 17, have any household "system" going at all. Their lives were disorganized from the get go.

 

As far as Jim Bob's parents, YES, they were more financially well fixed then they would like us to believe. They owned lots of properties in their own right, had the real estate business, Mary managed or owned that yogurt shop, and she purchased the "mold house" for $100,000 from Michelle's father...NO MORTGAGE, CASH purchase. They aren't broke nor were they broke. They lived WELL BELOW their means and banked a lot of money. Why HIS parents gave him permission to marry at 19 is unknown. No one has ever stated what Jim Bob's parents' feelings or wishes were regarding that wedding. I'd like to know myself, what the FACTS were, and not speculate. If anyone out there knows, please post and let us know.

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

From what I have seen of their early lives and what they have stated about their early years of marriage, I think J'Chelle were two teenagers "playing house" when they got married. They also seemed to live a disorganized homelife...by that I mean they have said they had huge credit care debt, were glued to their TV and watched it hours at a time, etc. I think they really didn't have a plan nor did Michelle at 17, have any household "system" going at all. Their lives were disorganized from the get go.

 

As far as Jim Bob's parents, YES, they were more financially well fixed then they would like us to believe. They owned lots of properties in their own right, had the real estate business, Mary managed or owned that yogurt shop, and she purchased the "mold house" for $100,000 from Michelle's father...NO MORTGAGE, CASH purchase. They aren't broke nor were they broke. They lived WELL BELOW their means and banked a lot of money. Why HIS parents gave him permission to marry at 19 is unknown. No one has ever stated what Jim Bob's parents' feelings or wishes were regarding that wedding. I'd like to know myself, what the FACTS were, and not speculate. If anyone out there knows, please post and let us know.

 

Yes please! Anyone who knows anything, please post. Of the whole motley cast of characters in the Duggar saga, I think the most interesting of the entire bunch might well end up being JR and Mary. I get theories of my own about everyone else, but I just can't peg these two. They have ole Wellfleet well and truly-stumped...

  • Love 5
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

Yes please! Anyone who knows anything, please post. Of the whole motley cast of characters in the Duggar saga, I think the most interesting of the entire bunch might well end up being JR and Mary. I get theories of my own about everyone else, but I just can't peg these two. They have ole Wellfleet well and truly-stumped...

 

Wonder if it's possible that they were somewhat average and normal while Jim Bob was such a strange kid that they just couldn't communicate with him and didn't know how to handle him, leaving the whole family as kind of a hash.

 

I kind of envision him as possibly being, from childhood, a troubling combination of major social bumbler, dweeb and outcast and control-freaky, arrogant self-righteous would-be ubermensch. (well, okay, because that's what he is now...) Anyway, an arrogant control-freak kid who casts aspersions on his parents' inadequate faith and morals while also being a social misfit whom those same parents feel drawn to protect would be hard to deal with.

 

Okay, there's some more ignorance-based idle speculation. Like Wellfleet, I'd love it if someone with a little actual information would chime in! 

Edited by Churchhoney
  • Love 4
JoanArc

JoanArc

 

As far as Jim Bob's parents, YES, they were more financially well fixed then they would like us to believe. They owned lots of properties in their own right, had the real estate business, Mary managed or owned that yogurt shop, and she purchased the "mold house" for $100,000 from Michelle's father...NO MORTGAGE, CASH purchase. They aren't broke nor were they broke. They lived WELL BELOW their means and banked a lot of money. Why HIS parents gave him permission to marry at 19 is unknown. No one has ever stated what Jim Bob's parents' feelings or wishes were regarding that wedding. I'd like to know myself, what the FACTS were, and not speculate. If anyone out there knows, please post and let us know.

I think it's been said by Jim Bob that Mary own the yogurt shop. The $100,000 for the mold house and $250,000 for the senate campaign sure do raise a few eyebrows, too. I think it's been banded about that the house they lived in during the first special was a freebie/discounted rent that was owned by their church. Plus, I think Mary owns a lot of property/cell tower sites. I kind of have a feeling that JB might have cleaned out, or severely dented the family fortune, and manged to luck into reality TV where he rebuilt it. It kind of explains the tension be tween Jim Bob and his father. I'd also like to know how Deanna turned out relatively normal, while Jim Bob didn't.

  • Love 3
Missy Vixen

Missy Vixen

 

Anyway, an arrogant control-freak kid who casts aspersions on his parents' inadequate faith and morals while also being a social misfit whom those same parents feel drawn to protect would be hard to deal with.

 

 

Who else does this remind you of? Go ahead, take a guess.

 

If you chose Bin, you're right!

 

The parallels are truly scary, IMHO.

  • Love 2
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

 I'd also like to know how Deanna turned out relatively normal, while Jim Bob didn't.

 

The existence of Deanna -- and stuff like JB's dad's obituary, which seems to show that some other people in the family actually liked the guy -- is why I would bet that JIm Bob is largely a case of somebody who wasn't really warped by his upbringing, as we seem to want to think -- but was mainly just born with an outlier personality that would have been super-hard or maybe impossible for just about any family to mold into something much better or closer to average. And while it's super-hard to rein an outlier in, I think it's pretty easy to help them turn their extreme personalities into something even more extreme -- If you try to head off explosive anger from a control-freak type by placating them, for example...Well, you may just be teaching them how to better manipulate people.

 

(Full disclosure: I base this on my own family, where the top-dog, super-mean, manipulative control freak was that way literally from birth and had a personality that didn't seem to resemble that of anybody else in the family. So I feel as if I know for a fact that we're just as much a product of our given biological natures as we are of stuff that happens to us as children. Some of us are just out there. And I'm so appalled by Jim Bob (and he reminds me so much of someone I know) that I think he's one of those!)

 

Again, of course, uninformed idle speculation. I would love to hear some stories about the young JB and his family. 

Edited by Churchhoney
  • Love 4
queenanne

queenanne

From what I have seen of their early lives and what they have stated about their early years of marriage, I think J'Chelle were two teenagers "playing house" when they got married. They also seemed to live a disorganized homelife...by that I mean they have said they had huge credit care debt, were glued to their TV and watched it hours at a time, etc. I think they really didn't have a plan nor did Michelle at 17, have any household "system" going at all. Their lives were disorganized from the get go.

 

Unless that was a mis-type I'm unsure of that version of events, because if that all happened at once, who could have "huge credit card debt" at 17 and 18?  I certainly wasn't offered any credit card until I went to college.

 

The existence of Deanna -- and stuff like JB's dad's obituary, which seems to show that some other people in the family actually liked the guy -- is why I would bet that JIm Bob is largely a case of somebody who wasn't really warped by his upbringing, as we seem to want to think -- but was mainly just born with an outlier personality that would have been super-hard or maybe impossible for just about any family to mold into something much better or closer to average. And while it's super-hard to rein an outlier in, I think it's pretty easy to help them turn their extreme personalities into something even more extreme -- If you try to head off explosive anger from a control-freak type by placating them, for example...Well, you may just be teaching them how to better manipulate people.

 

Maybe it's a different direction, where Deanna didn't care what JB said.  There are some hard-headed people out there.

 

What doesn't dovetail well, is how Mary hangs about the house seemingly OK with all the Gothardy nuttery, if she wasn't one of them from the git-go.  

  • Love 3
Obsidian

Obsidian

(edited)

Hmm, I've always wondered what Mary thinks of all Boob and J'Chelle's ideas and the way they 'raise' their children. I haven't watched enough to speculate or work out what the dynamics are between Boob/J'Chelle and Grandma. (I haven't been through the 'other Duggars' thread to see what other people think yet. If anyone could provide a synopsis I would love it.)

 

I watched the Christmas video ('hosted' by Josh, in the Benessa and the Awful Name thread) and was horrified to see that Michelle and Jim Bob hadn't co-ordinated their shirts.

 

Hold on, editing because I just realised Jim Bob is wearing a green shirt and Michelle is wearing red. It's Christmas co-ordinated. Their matching skills are on an infinitely higher plane than mine.

Edited by Obsidian
  • Love 12
Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

Unless that was a mis-type I'm unsure of that version of events, because if that all happened at once, who could have "huge credit card debt" at 17 and 18?  I certainly wasn't offered any credit card until I went to college.

 

 

 

Good point. And this was the 80s, when huge credit card debt wasn't all that much of a thing for anybody. Today it might be a little more feasible, but not in the 80s. And what big-ticket items do backwoods teens buy other than cars? And I don't think they were putting those on credit cards.

Edited by Churchhoney
  • Love 2
floridamom

floridamom

To clarify my post a bit....Jim Bob stated on TV, that it was the time that he went to those "financial freedom" seminar talks that he and Michelle had already accumulated a lot of credit card debt..when they were in their early 20s. My son was offered a credit card after high school graduation in the mail from Capital One, so it's possible  at 19 to have a card.

  • Love 4
bigskygirl

bigskygirl

I remembered watching a youtube video where JB was speaking about the abuse he suffered because his father was not spiritual enough (not praying, believing in God, not going to church.) I have a few thoughts on this especially after seeing the way JB and Michelle are raising their children, but I do not want to raise my blood pressure or my head to explode.

 

On the subject of Michelle having a fit when Ben and Jessa were holding hands, I think she is the one who wants to hold hands with Ben. She seems to have a creepy Mrs. Robinson vibe when it comes to Ben. Ben reminds me of JB in a way, and Jessa is a younger high school version of her mother.

Obsidian

Obsidian

You've just put this image into my head. Fast forward 30 years, and Jessa and Michelle are together on the couch, both with the same hair Michelle has now but in 30 years' worse condition. Michelle is wearing her green blouse, and Jessa is wearing a skin-tight top over her 19th pregnancy and a tight skirt. Spurgeon is sitting nearby, looking much like John David except for a sideways baseball cap, inherited genetically from his father. Spurgeon is theatrically quoting guilt-inducing Bible passages, complete with nature-picture flash-cards which he holds up for each passage he reads. Michelle is looking dazed. Her head lolls forwards intermittently, only to snap up with a moment of alertness, at which point she blurts out a platitude about the blessings which are children. Josie sits on the floor nearby, licking one of Spurgeon's flash-cards.

  • Love 14
cm-soupsipper
Message added by cm-soupsipper,

Closure Notice: This Thread is now closed due to the name (and much of the posting within it). Please be mindful going forward by naming topics in a way that invites a healthy community conversation. If you name something for a cheap laugh, this thread may be closed later because it encourages discrimination and harm. 

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