S05.E12: Remember

[whippersnapper]

I mean ... Really!!?  After the Governor and Terminus and countless other confrontations  where your firepower was essential to your survival and you're going to walk into an unknown situation and the first thing you do is give up your guns to a bunch of people you don't know?  (But at least Daryl is always going to be able to put a tasty possum on the table)

Edited March 3, 2015 by whippersnapper

[AngelaHunter]

It's usually about 48 hour after the show ends; on reddit.

 

It's not there. Hmph, I guess the person who makes them has the nerve to be busy with other things.

 

I hope someone told the person walking the dog that it would be wise to keep it on a leash. I thought I saw Rick drool a bit while looking at it.

[RedheadZombie]

It was clear from the moment she happened upon wet Slick Rick - laughably unabashedly as a supposed married woman approaching a half naked man she's never met - that she's the new love interest (that and the news articles that ran months ago).  I'm a Richonne shipper who isn't the least bit upset because I knew that they were never going to put them together.  I just hoped that they'd consider it because I liked them as a potential couple. 

 

As for the sound, all I hear is the silence of the people who pontificated and chastised on how men and women can and should "just be friends", and how nobody has time for sex in an apocalypse, and how they don't watch this show to see Rick or ANYBODY hook up because this is a cerebral horror show, not a soap opera, or why does a female character have to be associated with a male.  I knew silence is exactly what I'd hear when Jessie showed on the scene look all fetching and appropriate.  I'll give this character a chance and a minute to wash Alexandra's AHS character out of my brain.  She's already had more lines so we'll get to see her acting chops, not just her chops.  I'll admit that I'm excited to see her owl scultpture because every society needs art.

 

I don't think I ever pontificated or chastised anyone on the subject.  My concern is Michonne's character would be marginalized, similar to what happened to Maggie.  Also, if the coupling doesn't work out, it's not AL's job that would be in jeopardy.  Lastly, the show is about Rick and his man-pain.  I think Carl and Judith are safe for the time being.  That would leave his lady-love to die.

 

I have nothing to complain about regarding the potential of Rick and Jessie.  I don't care if Jessie is killed off.  I don't care if AB's job is jeopardized.  And I think she's a spy at the moment anyway.

 

As to washing away Alexandra's AHS character - she turned a man from a rooster to a hen with one bite.  Rick should beware.

[Enero]

The way Michonne is dressed, all else aside, proves that she is not seen as asexual or desexualized.

Speaking of Michonne's wardrobe has anyone, besides you of course :), noticed that her cleavage is a little more pronounced this season? The wardrobe folks are definitely putting Danai in a push up bra. Don't know if this change means anything or is simply a slight change in her look, but I have noticed they are highlighting her feminine attributes a bit more. Also I believe she was the only one besides Rick that changed into two different outfits, shirts at least, last night.

 

With regards to sex on the show, the constant danger aside, the sheer fact that these characters have been dirty, grimy and look like they reek of unimaginable horrible smells, I have no desire to see anyone having sex. The thought of anyone getting it on, pre Alexandria, was IMO disgusting.  It might not be true to real life that people wouldn't be so chaste but I'm glad the writers hasn't felt to need to explore that aspect much on the show.

 

Regarding Michonne and Rick, I like their relationship and I'm not opposed to something deeper than friendship growing between them. I'm moreso on the fence. However, if the writers go there, I'd prefer they keep it subtle. They can drop hints that they have taken their relationship there without us seeing graphic love scenes (I've already explained why I don't want to see that) or them declaring their love (or like) every two seconds. Like RedheadZombie, my biggest fear with Richonne is that the character of Michonne will lose what makes her interesting an unique (ala. Glenn) and eventually be put out to pasture, prematurely,  when the relationship inevitably doesn't work out.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Enero

[Timetoread]

I don't think I ever pontificated or chastised anyone on the subject.  My concern is Michonne's character would be marginalized, similar to what happened to Maggie.  Also, if the coupling doesn't work out, it's not AL's job that would be in jeopardy.  Lastly, the show is about Rick and his man-pain.  I think Carl and Judith are safe for the time being.  That would leave his lady-love to die.

 

I have nothing to complain about regarding the potential of Rick and Jessie.  I don't care if Jessie is killed off.  I don't care if AB's job is jeopardized.  And I think she's a spy at the moment anyway.

 

As to washing away Alexandra's AHS character - she turned a man from a rooster to a hen with one bite.  Rick should beware.

 

I just want to say that yours was the ONLY argument that I truly agreed with and after reading it realized that I could live with not having them as a couple.  I like the chemistry but I don't want to sacrifice Michonne for Richonne.

[kj4ever]

On rewatch one thing really stood out to me.  After Carol struggled with her gun she gave Rick this look and he did a real subtle nod.  I wonder if they all had this planned before they ever stepped in the gates, down to Carl saying "I didn't just loose my Mother, I killed her."  I mean seriously why would he say that unless they all had their characters planned out?

 

Also Jessie's son Ron kept his hand on Enid's shoulder the whole time they were talking in the bedroom.  It was totally a possessive move, even if Enid didn't seem all that impressed.

Edited March 3, 2015 by kj4ever

[Raven1707]

Maggie's relationship with Glenn has always been much more told than shown - their first time was "we have condoms so let's just do this Glenn" and cutting away as they're awkwardly standing near each other naked. All the rest has been implied and we've just seen them cuddling or talking post-coitus.

 

Hmm, there was also make-up sex at the prison after Maggie got past Glenn acting like the Governor's assault was somehow more about him than her.

 

Something that's been bugging me about this whole fitting into society and being out in the ZA too long aspect of this storyline.  They really weren't.  Based on the compressed timeline they were out in the ZA for maybe 6-8 weeks post fall of the Prison.  Before that they spent close 6 months in the prison, creating a society, they had jobs, and rules, the kids had school etc.  Before that, they were at the Farm again, keeping their own society and looking to create a community. I could probably buy the whole fish out of water or been in the jungle too long if we hadn't just seen them having their own community not that long ago.

 

There was also a 7-month gap between when the herd ran them off the Greene farm and when they found and cleared the prison. (Basically, between Season 2 and Season 3.)

[Tony]

LMAO glad I'm not the only one who raised an eyebrow at Carol's pastel blouse and cardigan ensemble. Definitely the most uncomfortable sight in the whole episode.

[AngelaHunter]

All the rest has been implied and we've just seen them cuddling or talking post-coitus.

 

Maybe you've mentally blocked out the "Are you comin'?" sex in the tower? Never have I found seeing two good-looking young people having sex so distasteful.

[Dodginblue]

I don't see Rick and Michonne as a romantic possibility at all.  They are too much alike.  And while it's possible that Rick's taste in women has changed, I'm assuming that Lori still represents the kind of woman Rick finds attractive and would want to be in a long term relationship with.  I see very little in common between Lori and Michonne.  Totally different personalities.    I think that Rick and Michonne act like brother and sister, they are there for each other and they understand each other but I don't think either one would find a romantic relationship between the two of them very satisfactory.   They would have a working partnership, focused mainly on the kids but no real passion.  And if I'm Michonne I think I'd want to be with a man who hadn't seen me slicing heads off and if I'm Rick I think I'd want to be with a woman who hadn't seen me rip a man's throat out with my teeth.   Although maybe that's not possible in the ZA.

 

Probably not the right place for this comment but oh well.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Dodginblue

[Nashville]

I think it's more likely that she is establishing survival caches in case she needs to escape a dangerous situation. I agree with those that think she is the most likely person to have removed the blender gun.

Now THAT sounds like a good read. If her trips over the wall are a regular occurrence (easily believable, as her main egress/ingress point was behind what was previously unoccupied housing), then it's entirely within the realm of possibility she was spying when Rick hid the pistol.

 

They need a second tier of walls,  better gate(s), perhaps a discreet barricade on the road before the wall is in sight and  additional barriers like a line of junked cars between the wall and the treeline.

 

Didn't they already have a two-tier fence system? I thought the outer solid-steel braced wall designed by Deanna's (so-far) absentee husband was an outer tier.

 

As for the sound, all I hear is the silence of the people who pontificated and chastised on how men and women can and should "just be friends", and how nobody has time for sex in an apocalypse, and how they don't watch this show to see Rick or ANYBODY hook up because this is a cerebral horror show, not a soap opera, or why does a female character have to be associated with a male.  I knew silence is exactly what I'd hear when Jessie showed on the scene look all fetching and appropriate.

So - you know a lot, but you don't hear much? :D

 

I don't recall previously voicing much opinion one way or the other on any shipping arrangements, or the pros/cons of shipping at all.  I have always thought, however.  CDB's current course of swimming the cold cold waters of Lake Lackanookie was realistic, if not entertaining. 

 

My impressions about the lack of sexual relationships being realistic doesn't have anything to do with societal norms or conventions about who should hook up with who, or moral judgments about whether anybody should/shouldn't hook up at all.  Under the right circumstances, folks will hook up; that's human nature.  What constitutes the "right circumstances", however?

• Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs indicates the satisfaction of both physiological needs (requirements for human survival) and safety needs (on an individual basis - more on this later) take precedence over the satisfaction of emotional needs.  It wasn't until this episode CDB could even consider those most basic needs to be addressed, much less met. 
• Only after people feel physiological and safety needs have been addressed to an adequate (or at least acceptable) degree will they be able to focus on pursuit of higher-level needs, such as feelings of love and belonging.  When you're smack-dab in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, this makes perfect sense.  If your need to get your rocks off takes precedence over dealing with that undead biter be-bopping your way, then you're a walking candidate for a Darwin Award.
• For some (but not all) of our intrepid band of brain-stabbers, an additional wrinkle presents itself even when those first two levels of need have been addressed.  The needs for love and belonging encompasses more than just desire for romantic emotional and physical intimacy; wound up in that also is the need for safety of the family and/or social unit.  Most* of CDB would feel this to some degree, to be sure; they regard themselves as a family.  As Rick is the only biological parent with surviving children, however, I don't think it would be out of line to suggest he would always give his children's safety precedence over his own personal emotional desires.  All non-parents please feel free to disagree with me on this one; be forewarned in advance, however, I will probably pay absolutely attention to you.  :)

 

To summarize:

• I would expect members of CDB to start hooking up - but only after they feel they can trust the notion their needs for physical survival and individual security have been addressed.
• Some of our people (Rick in particular) are going to take longer than others.

 

P.S.: As I was typing this, one other thought crossed my mind.  Given they have lived together so long as a survival-focused family unit or sorts, would members of CDB have problems forming romantic attachments with each other at this point in time?  I'm wondering if they might consider the concept as borderline incestuous.  A few people I'd exempt from this, though:

1. Glenn and Maggie - their romantic/sexual relationship predates a lot of the group experience.
2. Gabriel - I don't think he has formed a particularly strong emotional attachment of ANY sort to any member or members of the group.  He's still the FNG riding the group's coattails not out of allegiance, but purely for reasons of personal survival.  Flip side to this, though = less personal baggage to overcome.  Besides the whole preacher thing, or course.

 

In this respect, landing among a group of strangers in a relatively safe environment might be the best chance CDB could have of getting their freak on to any degree.

 

P.P.S.: This is definitely Carl's best shot at getting his cherry popped by someone NOT named Joe.  Disinterested though she may be acting, I definitely think Enid feels a lot more affinity for  / ability to relate to Carl than the other two boys, who (a) can't relate to her Outside experience and (b) still think video games are a Thing.

[Rosiejuliemom]

Speaking if poker, what card game was Eugene leading in the RV?

 

 

Probably baseball or some variation thereof. Possibly five or even seven card draw, depending on the number of players and/or decks. I was actually interested to see that hand play out. My family and I play a lot of similar games and we usually have to go best five of a kind. Really sucks when a natural royal flush loses.

[MegK]

I think there is nothing off about the slight number of encounters they've had with other residents, IIRC Aaron mentioned that the rest of them would respect their privacy and keep their distance while they settle in.

The community does feel kind of deserted — I get the feeling there might be a relatively small number of people. Our group hasn’t officially met many of the residents, but we’ve actually seen or heard about quite a few. Here’s what I counted:

1) Deanna Monroe

2) Jessie

3-4) Jessie’s sons, Ron and Sam

5) Jessie’s creepy husband

6-7) Ron’s friend Mikey, and Mikey’s father who’s stingy with his pool table

8) Enid

9-10) Natalie and Bob Miller, elderly cheek-pinchers

11) woman walking dog

12) Aiden

13) Nicholas

14) during the Aiden/Glenn fight, there was a young man in gray who closed the gate

15-17) two women and one man were in the street watching the fight

18) woman with glasses who gathered the guns (and also turned out to watch the fight)

19-20) Aaron and Eric (definitely my favorite Alexandria residents)

21) Deanna’s husband, Reg, assuming he’s still alive

22) another son (or sons) of Deanna — she said her husband and sons, plural, built the wall, but we’ve only seen Aiden so far

23+) there should be a number of young children — Rick and Michone heard children’s voices; Ron said the little kids have school in the morning; Deanna said the families there deserve to raise their kids in safety 

23++) Carol said her job’s making food for the elderly, so there must be other older folks in addition to the Millers

 

We also know there were three men exiled at some point, and four people killed last month during a supply run. And while it's possible there's an army of people we just haven't seen yet, if the group IS around, say, 30 people — many of them children and the elderly — losing seven would be a pretty big blow.

 

 

I keep losing count, but I think our group is, what, 15 now? So it’s possible the Alexandria folks brought in a group that’s around half the size of theirs. It seems like they would have to have some pretty desperate reason to feel like it’s worth taking that risk. I wouldn’t be surprised if we find out there have been threats of some sort from the exiles.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

When Rick sees that lady walking a large dog, I felt that it was supposed to convey normalcy; American suburbia.

But all I could think was what are they feeding the dog? They have so much meat they can keep large pet dogs?

Dogs don't do well on acorns.

 

Funny.  My guess on Rick's thought process on that scene was 'Hmmm, nice dog, but an even nicer dinner!".

[CletusMusashi]

A post on Pajiba.com suggests that all the nods to the wolves last season (the graffiti, the trees in the shape of a "W", the heads with "W"s carved in them) were brought full circle in this episode with a pack of feral wolves entering Alexandria. Rich is alpha male, Michonne is alpha female, Daryll is the lone wolf, Carol is den mother, Carl is the cub and the rest make up the wolf pack. States that the title of the comic wrapped it all up in a nice little bow. When I read it I thought immediately of Daryll pacing back and forth when Rick pulled him off that guy. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting interpretation.

If Rick and Michonne were the alphas, they would not both be single. The only way an alpha in a wolf pack is alone for any real amount of time is if their mate died recently and everybody else of appropriate level is currently paired up.

Lone wolves are not a part of a wolf pack. Lone wolves are either individuals so weak that they were bullied out, and if they're lucky they eventually lose their virginity to a dog or coyote... or they are simply the last survivor of their pack being shot to death. Daryl is neither of these things. Oh, he is free to be a completely human, completely metaphorical lone wolf. But not as a part of a metaphorical wolf pack.

And, all wolves are den mothers. Not even just all females. All adult wolves, of both sexes, put way less thought into dressing like Little Red Riding Hood's grandma than they do into feeding their pups something besides acorns.

Although as far as the dressing up like a harmless grandma thing goes... I suppose you could make an argument for the metaphorical lupinicity of Carol.

[CletusMusashi]

Deanna doesn't even need to be good at reading people to figure out Rick was a sheriff, one look at his kid wearing that hat and its pretty obvious.

But Rick was never a sheriff. He was a deputy. We saw him and Shane at work, with no big silly hats anywhere in sight. Then one day he woke from a coma with a temporary penchant for sheriff cosplay. Then he got over it. But Carl was problematically impressionable, so the odious trend was perpetuated. I give them one season before Judith is wearing the damn thing.

[Pete Martell]

Maybe you've mentally blocked out the "Are you comin'?" sex in the tower? Never have I found seeing two good-looking young people having sex so distasteful.

 

Wasn't that just the group joking and then they scrambled out of the tower? I can't remember now. I never thought any of these scenes were all that explicit, especially not compared to Lori's scenes or even Andrea with the thong.

[Tippi Blevins]

Yeah, I noticed when he called himself a sheriff. Well, I guess he was due for a promotion.

 

On the surface, Carol's job seems like a cinch, but it might actually be dangerous. She's helping out old folks? How old are we talking? Is she likely to knock on someone's door with casserole in hand and find out Grandma died and reanimated in her sleep?

[Nashville]

But Rick was never a sheriff. He was a deputy. We saw him and Shane at work, with no big silly hats anywhere in sight. Then one day he woke from a coma with a temporary penchant for sheriff cosplay. Then he got over it. But Carl was problematically impressionable, so the odious trend was perpetuated. I give them one season before Judith is wearing the damn thing.

 

He was for a day or two.

When Rick awoke from his coma, he was the only member of the sheriff's department in town; therefore, he was Acting Sheriff by default.  :)

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Wasn't that just the group joking and then they scrambled out of the tower? I can't remember now. I never thought any of these scenes were all that explicit, especially not compared to Lori's scenes or even Andrea with the thong.

 

Glenn & Maggie had a pretty 'in our face' sex scene in, I believe, s3B.  There were in a little known/used enclosed area of the prison and went at it 'in full light'.

 

The only 3 sex spots I count as close to as full on explicit as can get on a show like this, were the one I just mentioned, Lori/Shane all the way back in 1.2, and the 'Eguene perving on Abe/Rosita' scene.  All the rest have been pretty tame, in comparison.  The skin flashing or 'nude' scenes have been more faux-explicit than the actual sexual encounters, by far.

[Nashville]

Another impression:

When Rick was staring at the church steeple from Deanna's office, I don't think he was looking for a sniper; rather, i think he was reflexively scanning locations where he would put a sniper.

[Bruinsfan]

I don't think Carol has Deanna entirely fooled  but even so, she got exactly what she wanted out of the encounter.  I'm sure Deanna looked past the helpless act and sees that Carol is a highly competent person, but I doubt even her canniest analysis would reveal that Carol would be the sort to take down Terminus, or that she has the sort of ruthless pragmatism that would enable her to end the lives of sick people with a highly communicable disease or someone like Lizzie.

This. Someone who's lived in relative comfort really wouldn't have any way of knowing what Carol is capable of. Hell, the cannibals with armed guards stationed at the approaches to Terminus weren't prepared for how hardcore she's become. It's possible Deanna may think Carol is analogous to herself, the real brains of the outfit, but she'd have to be psychic to figure out that she's more Ellen Ripley than Artemesia.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[Yolapukka]

I am of the opinion that Glenn should have decked Aidan as soon as he failed to hand over the promised baked goods. Even though "sweet ass biscuits" sounds like it could be an odd treat, that was still a mean trick. Clearly Aidan is not well-suited for being in charge of anything as important as delivering muffin baskets to newcomers.

[CletusMusashi]

My favorite town name suggested was Ricksburg. But what would you call its natives? Ricksburgian is as bad as Alexandrian.

And Ricksburger? Probably too soon. (if there were still a Carl's open, he'd go berserk!)
ASZ is workable with. And what will the ASZ turn out to be filled with? Unfortunately... probably ASZoles.

[Nashville]

ASZ is workable with. And what will the ASZ turn out to be filled with? Unfortunately... probably ASZoles.

 

But that's so... awkward.

 

How about ASZhats?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

But that's so... awkward.

 

How about ASZhats?

 

I'm sure Aidan would be happy with being called an ASZbiscuit.

[Pete Martell]

I don't think I ever pontificated or chastised anyone on the subject.  My concern is Michonne's character would be marginalized, similar to what happened to Maggie.  Also, if the coupling doesn't work out, it's not AL's job that would be in jeopardy.  Lastly, the show is about Rick and his man-pain.  I think Carl and Judith are safe for the time being.  That would leave his lady-love to die.

 

I have nothing to complain about regarding the potential of Rick and Jessie.  I don't care if Jessie is killed off.  I don't care if AB's job is jeopardized.  And I think she's a spy at the moment anyway.

 

As to washing away Alexandra's AHS character - she turned a man from a rooster to a hen with one bite.  Rick should beware.

 

I think the show stopped being about Rick's pain in the first few seasons. Daryl fits more of that bill.

 

I feel like Michonne is too important of a character to ever be pigeonholed as just Rick's girlfriend - they usually try to make her a voice in her own right, especially this season, after there was some fan criticism that she was just there late last season to be a nanny to Carl. 

 

With that said, I do realize she'd get fan hate if she was with Rick. And if she isn't, fine. It's more the scenes like this that keep being thrown into the narrative that bother me. If they aren't going to pair them up, then the scenes need to stop. I don't mean friendship or bonds, I mean the quasi-flirtation.

I mean ... Really!!?  After the Governor and Terminus and countless other confrontations  where your firepower was essential to your survival and you're going to walk into an unknown situation and the first thing you do is give up your guns to a bunch of people you don't know?  (But at least Daryl is always going to be able to put a tasty possum on the table)

 

I think they knew this was what they'd have to do and is one of the reasons there was such conflict in the group over whether to take the risk, but when it came down to it, all the guns in the world weren't going to keep them from starving to death. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

After rewatching a bit of Remember, I think I'm going with the idea that Jessie's "husband" is just a product of Rick's dreaming subconscious; until its proven that he's 100% real.  I know Ambiguous Show likes to be Really Ambiguous, but that hard cut from 'meeting the hubby' to his waking up was just weird.

 

Why do I think he's not real (yet)?  In both scenes between them [R/J], not once is a husband/boyfriend/any kind of current significant other/any kind of man at all, around, mentioned by her.  Could she have deliberately not have said anything because Rick made her hot in the crotch?  Sure.  But in a 'community' like that, hard to keep the fact you have a husband secret for too very long.

 

Someone mentioned way up-thread that some of the group was going to work with 'Pete. Jessie's husband'.  I am having trouble with total recall - did someone on the show actually say this Pete was her husband? .....  If so - ignore all the above while I slink away to my idiot corner.

[CarpeDiem54]

I finally got to watch (twice) and have read every single post. The most important thing has not been mentioned - toilet paper in the Welcome Wagon laundry basket. Real life, honest to God TOILET PAPER people!

I also noticed that Carol lifted some papers when she and Coral went into the second house to check it out. Wonder what those were.

And I can understand everyone wanting to stay in the same house, but DAMN, I'd at least sleep in a bed or on a couch instead of the floor.

Also, it looked like Daryl had the possum carcass laying across his "sleeping bag" in the living room. Shit, Daryl, write Claimed on a sticky note and put it in the fridge.

[Pete Martell]

Someone mentioned way up-thread that some of the group was going to work with 'Pete. Jessie's husband'.  I am having trouble with total recall - did someone on the show actually say this Pete was her husband? .....  If so - ignore all the above while I slink away to my idiot corner.

 

Greg Nicotero said there was a deleted scene with various characters going to work. One of them had Rosita meeting her husband.

[CarpeDiem54]

Someone mentioned way up-thread that some of the group was going to work with 'Pete. Jessie's husband'.  I am having trouble with total recall - did someone on the show actually say this Pete was her husband? .....  If so - ignore all the above while I slink away to my idiot corner.

I just watched and Jessie never mentioned his name. Pete is supposedly the doctor, whom Aaron mentioned in the last episode.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Greg Nicotero said there was a deleted scene with various characters going to work. One of them had Rosita meeting her husband.

 

Ah, thanks.  I was wondering where that came from - as I didn't remember (totally accidental cliche, I promise!) seeing it occur while watching.

 

I just watched and Jessie never mentioned his name. Pete is supposedly the doctor, whom Aaron mentioned in the last episode.

 

Oh, yes.  Now I remember (dammit!).  Aaron was trying to sell Noah on the corrective surgery /w Dr. Pete, on the camper back in The Distance.

[Caelicola]

I also noticed that Carol lifted some papers when she and Coral went into the second house to check it out. Wonder what those were.

 

I noticed that too, and wondered what that was, and then on rewatch I noticed that when they're all together in the house and Michonne is brushing her teeth (not a sentence I ever thought I'd write about this show...) Carol is drawing a map of the community. So, I think she just grabbed a stack of paper and a pen, and she's using them to give her group some tactical edge in case of need. The ASZhats (love that, by the way) have home-court advantage, but at least, thanks to Carol, CDB wouldn't be going in blind.

[kj4ever]

When Deanna talked about her husband she said "he is a professor"  not "was".  Sometimes people make that mistake if they have died really recently, but usually people acclimate to the word was really quick. 

[kikismom]

Also Jessie's son Ron kept his hand on Enid's shoulder the whole time they were talking in the bedroom.  It was totally a possessive move, even if Enid didn't seem all that impressed.

 

When Rick was staring at the church steeple from Deanna's office, I don't think he was looking for a sniper; rather, i think he was reflexively scanning locations where he would put a sniper.

 

 Carol is drawing a map of the community.

Some very nice catches!

 

I suggest that the group watch out for Noah getting too interested in having his leg fixed by Dr. Pete.

Even if he isn't a dangerous Ed Peletier 2.0.

Because that would be a cute trick to gain the upper hand with our group; Noah gets operated on and then he can't walk for weeks. Oops, everybody's got to stay here and behave real good for another month.

Let's not have another gotta-retrieve-Noah-from-the-Bad-People arc.

 

What if Pete really is another Ed, or a drunk, or something? Oops, the operation went sideways and Noah's leg had to be amputated.

 

I feel bad for Noah limping; especially after he went over the wall at Shirewilt (couldn't someone get down on the other side and help him or catch him or something) but running with a limp is better than nothing at all.

Edited March 3, 2015 by kikismom

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

 

Also Jessie's son Ron kept his hand on Enid's shoulder the whole time they were talking in the bedroom.  It was totally a possessive move, even if Enid didn't seem all that impressed.

 

I called the initial Enid-&-boys scene as having a 'rapey' vibe.  I didn't notice the constant hand on her, but I did notice her distinct lack of wanting to be there or caring anything about her surroundings or the people in it.  I am not saying the used descriptive word as meaning they do actually sexually assault her, just that they use comparative methods to control her.

 

If that was Pete, and Pete is her husband; then something is gonna go down between him and Rick - even if nothing seriously happens or develops between R & Jessie.  And also said in my initial post after watching; got a real "Ed" vibe from the (real/not-real) hubby.  That would be a believable scenario, Noah going for corrective surgery and end up messed up a lot worse - totally on accident, of course.

 

- - - - - - - - -

 

I've been thinking a pretty unbelievable thing about Alexandria.  I think most of us are just waiting for the big 'shock' moment when we're clued in that this place isn't the perfectly cute little Suburbia its being displayed as so far.  I can't but just wonder if it doesn't turn out that the people of Alexandria are really

the 'Unfair' Wolves.  Look at what happened with Noah's old 'home'.  That place was wrecked and left for dead.  What if the Wolves have been watching/following CDB since then, and took over Alexandria from the past residents (much like they did to Noah's old place) and are snaring CDB into their trap?

  Plausible, or am I off my rocker??

Edited March 3, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[kikismom]

I called the initial Enid-&-boys scene as having a 'rapey' vibe.  I didn't notice the constant hand on her, but I did notice her distinct lack of wanting to be there or caring anything about her surroundings or the people in it.  I am not saying the used descriptive word as meaning they do actually sexually assault her, just that they use comparative methods to control her.

 

If that was Pete, and Pete is her husband; then something is gonna go down between him and Rick - even if nothing seriously happens or develops between R & Jessie.  And also said in my initial post after watching; got a real "Ed" vibe from the (real/not-real) hubby.  That would be a believable scenario, Noah going for corrective surgery and end up messed up a lot worse - totally on accident, of course.

 

- - - - - - - - -

 

I've been thinking a pretty unbelievable thing about Alexandria.  I think most of us are just waiting for the big 'shock' moment when we're clued in that this place isn't the perfectly cute little Suburbia its being displayed as so far.  I can't but just wonder if it doesn't turn out that the people of Alexandria are really

the 'Unfair' Wolves.  Look at what happened with Noah's old 'home'.  That place was wrecked and left for dead.  What if the Wolves have been watching/following CDB since then, and took over Alexandria from the past residents (much like they did to Noah's old place) and are snaring CDB into their trap?

  Plausible, or am I off my rocker??

Very interesting possibilities. I'm a little curious how they are presented as so stupid when they go on a run, yet these are people who carry parabolic microphones or whatever, and have scoured 53 mile distances but don't have any wars or visible attack damage---Rick and co, couldn't get baby food or get Herschel home without running into Woodbury or Randall's gang etc. And that was when thing were comparatively not as bad yet. I don't really think the metal fence is doing it; if people down in rural GA could have a tank they took from their National Guard post what could you steal in the VA/DC region?

 

I'm also uncomfortable about the boys and one girl that age all up in the room doing what? She has some reason to be surly.

 

Remember when Rick told Aaron. that the applesauce could make his baby sick and then they have the only doctor and it could be a trap?

That might be foreshadowing?

Trouble with a doctor, who already hates Rick ...don't get injured RIck. And stop letting people get so hands-on with Judith. It might have been safe so far but they might be testing you to see if you let your guard down.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Very interesting possibilities. I'm a little curious how they are presented as so stupid when they go on a run, yet these are people who carry parabolic microphones or whatever, and have scoured 53 mile distances but don't have any wars or visible attack damage---Rick and co, couldn't get baby food or get Herschel home without running into Woodbury or Randall's gang etc. And that was when thing were comparatively not as bad yet. I don't really think the metal fence is doing it; if people down in rural GA could have a tank they took from their National Guard post what could you steal in the VA/DC region?

 

I'm also uncomfortable about the boys and one girl that age all up in the room doing what? She has some reason to be surly.

 

Remember when Rick told Aaron. that the applesauce could make his baby sick and then they have the only doctor and it could be a trap?

That might be foreshadowing?

Trouble with a doctor, who already hates Rick ...don't get injured RIck. And stop letting people get so hands-on with Judith. It might have been safe so far but they might be testing you to see if you let your guard down.

 

If you stop to think about it, the possibilities and circumstances really do add up to some pretty shady shit.  What you mentioned above, and another thing that pops out, Deanna makes this huge spiel about how isolated they are - having not seen living or dead people in so long, making short runs for supplies, etc - how'd they know they'd find CDB where they were, if this Alexandria and its inhabitants are really so insulated as they try to portray themselves?  Wonder how long until we see the figurative flashing red lights/blaring alarm going off in a thought cloud above Rick's head when he stops to assimilate all the 'little things' that won't add up under intense scrutiny.  Not really sure how much I'm buying that whole "we cleared (whatever highway or whatnot) that Aaron claimed [No, I 'm not claiming Aaron, Eric!] they did.

 

Quickly, before my main point;  Am I the only one struggling with the actual belief that that is her real name?  Apologies to those this might apply to or might offend, but somehow I think the popularity of using the name Enid for a girl died out quite some time before she popped out her mom's birth canal.  That said, on to the main point... I think the reason Enid is so standoffish and rude with Carl is she sees him as another male that will do what he wants to/with her, same as the other 2/3 boys she already has to the displeasure of knowing.  But maybe not, maybe she just mistrusts/doesn't want to get close to any and all people in general.

 

I agree, and wonder if that wasn't foreshadowing too.  Let CDB settle in for a bit, lull them in to as close to a sense of complacency (as much as a group like that can be), and then BAM!, either just Rick or a combo of Rick/Michonne/Daryl/Carol/Glenn/Sasha/Abe all of the sudden come down with a severe case of "food poisoning" or some kind of thing passed through edible sources.

[Bad Example]

I mean ... Really!!?  After the Governor and Terminus and countless other confrontations  where your firepower was essential to your survival and you're going to walk into an unknown situation and the first thing you do is give up your guns to a bunch of people you don't know?  (But at least Daryl is always going to be able to put a tasty possum on the table)

 

I was doing a lot of shouting that they were just giving them up:  "No.  Um... NO.  Hell, NO."  I understand wanting to make a show of following their rules... but... NO.  

 

I don't see Rick and Michonne as a romantic possibility at all.  They are too much alike.  And while it's possible that Rick's taste in women has changed, I'm assuming that Lori still represents the kind of woman Rick finds attractive and would want to be in a long term relationship with.  I see very little in common between Lori and Michonne.  Totally different personalities.    I think that Rick and Michonne act like brother and sister, they are there for each other and they understand each other but I don't think either one would find a romantic relationship between the two of them very satisfactory.   They would have a working partnership, focused mainly on the kids but no real passion.  And if I'm Michonne I think I'd want to be with a man who hadn't seen me slicing heads off and if I'm Rick I think I'd want to be with a woman who hadn't seen me rip a man's throat out with my teeth.   Although maybe that's not possible in the ZA.

 

A couple of things:  I think when your world changes, your taste might change.  Perhaps not when it comes to a hook up.  For long term, though, I think competence and the ability to protect the children would shoot to very high on the list.  

 

As for Rick and Michonne, I love them together, but don't necessarily ship them. It could go either way.  In the family side of things, I really see them more as co-parents to Carl--much like you said, a working partnership.  And frankly, it pisses me off in general that there's a school of thought that thinks that having Michonne express a maternal side somehow diminishes her.  She's allowed to have facets.  

[kj4ever]

One thing about this episode that makes me super happy....I was not looking forward to the introduction of new characters At. All.  I mean I still could give a crap about people like Sasha, Tara, Abraham, Rosita, FPP, and Noah.  I mean some of them have been around forever but I really never formed any kind of attachment to them, nor do I care about their stories.

 

I am completely interested in the stories of some of our new characters from these last two episodes.  I can't wait to find out more about Deanna, Enid, Jessie, and really the whole community.  I even want to know more about douche bag Aiden and who appears to be a douche bag Jessie's hubby.  They have done a great job making these characters interesting and not seem like they stepped off the pages of the comics.

[AndySmith]

the people of Alexandria are really   Plausible, or am I off my rocker??

 

Did that really need a spoiler?

 

Let CDB settle in for a bit, lull them in to as close to a sense of complacency (as much as a group like that can be), and then BAM!

 

Which is probably going to happen, since, season finale coming up soon!

 

I mean I still could give a crap about people like Sasha, Tara, Abraham, Rosita, FPP, and Noah.

I can't wait to find out more about Deanna, Enid, Jessie, and really the whole community.  I even want to know more about douche bag Aiden and who appears to be a douche bag Jessie's hubby.  They have done a great job making these characters interesting and not seem like they stepped off the pages of the comics.

 

Well, to be fair, what you said to second gropup applies to most, if not all, of the people you mentioned in the first group. But I guess that's a discussion for another thread...

Edited March 3, 2015 by AndySmith

[Bad Example]

Quickly, before my main point;  Am I the only one struggling with the actual belief that that is her real name?  Apologies to those this might apply to or might offend, but somehow I think the popularity of using the name Enid for a girl died out quite some time before she popped out her mom's birth canal.  That said, on to the main point... I think the reason Enid is so standoffish and rude with Carl is she sees him as another male that will do what he wants to/with her, same as the other 2/3 boys she already has to the displeasure of knowing.  But maybe not, maybe she just mistrusts/doesn't want to get close to any and all people in general.

 

The name gave me pause, too, but I decided not to read too much into it.  After all, I know a six year old named Gladys.  Just because most girls Enid's age are Kelsey or Caitlyn doesn't mean there aren't outliers.  

 

I didn't get the rapey/abusive vibe with the boys and Enid.  I got the idea that she was there with them because they were the only game in town and she didn't have anywhere else to go.  The boy might have interest and designs on her and wanted to convey that to Carl, but I don't think Enid gives a damn WHAT that boy wants,  OR what he wants Carl to think.  I suspect she could take those boys out much the way Glenn took out Aiden... as if it doesn't even require much effort.  

[SevenStars]

I just really want to see Michonne interact more with people who are not name Rick. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Rick/Michonne relationship, it is one of my favorites on the show and I look forward to it in every episode. But seeing Michonne interact mostly with Rick in this episode makes me miss her interaction her with other characters. 

 

I miss her interaction with Carl and Darly. 

[SevenStars]

A couple of things:  I think when your world changes, your taste might change.  Perhaps not when it comes to a hook up.  For long term, though, I think competence and the ability to protect the children would shoot to very high on the list.  

 

As for Rick and Michonne, I love them together, but don't necessarily ship them. It could go either way.  In the family side of things, I really see them more as co-parents to Carl--much like you said, a working partnership.  And frankly, it pisses me off in general that there's a school of thought that thinks that having Michonne express a maternal side somehow diminishes her.  She's allowed to have facets.  

 

I totally agree with this. Unlike most, I never thought that Lori was the prototype for the type of women Rick wants, so I never saw Rick as someone who wants a "little woman" type of partner and wouldn't go for someone more like Michonne or even Carol.

 

As for Michonne, I think if she wants to have a partner/family, Rick or Daryl would be the type of man she picks. While they might not have been her type before the ZA, after what happened to her son, they are the type she would go for because unlike the man in her recent past, she would know that she could trust them with the lives of her children if she ever decides to have some. I don't see her going for anyone who is not willing to do anything and everything to protect their child.

[Ottis]

When Rick was staring at the church steeple from Deanna's office, I don't think he was looking for a sniper; rather, i think he was reflexively scanning locations where he would put a sniper.

 

 

I think *all* of Rick's group are measuring the town, looking for threats, weighing options and creating contingency plans. Constantly. That was the theme of the episode: At what point do you relax and revert back to civilized ways? Especially after you tried that before and it failed, at great cost?

 

Carol is playing a role. No way she reverts to den mother that quickly. Darryl can't revert because honestly, what he was before the ZA was so much less meaningful than what he is during the ZA (that was explored in past episodes). Carl is just starting to remember what it was like to be a kid again, but his sense of responsibility as oldest son (he grew up as a survivor and a protector)  is making him think about every step toward actually becoming one (and his admittance that he killed his mom was his matter-of-fact way of viewing the world as a survivor/protector). Glen and Maggie just seem uncomfortable, caught between options without being any one of them. Abraham is so one-dimensional I'm not sure he is anything other than stubborn and resistant to change, as always.

 

Anyway, they all are in the point between survive or proper, and none of them knows exactly what to do, yet.

[AndySmith]

Abraham is so one-dimensional I'm not sure he is anything other than stubborn and resistant to change, as always.

 

True, but given the history that we were shown, there is potential there to see how he would adjust to life in Alexandria, if the writers would branch out a bit besides the Atlanta 5. I was curious to see how some of the others like Maggie, Abraham, Rosita, and Tara felt about the move, and if they were more supportive of Michone's POV about it all or veered more towards Rick's.

Edited March 3, 2015 by AndySmith

[Boofish]

I think the AZZes are facing a threat and need the help

 

I wish the title of this episode had been "We Brought Dinner"

 

I hate to sound crude but from what we have seen and heard in this world the fact that Enid is comfortable enough at least to be alone with two teenage boys speaks volumes about the community. They are up to something but I don't think they are the victimizers; I think they are the victims. I thought the same thing about Woodbury (what a complete psycho but at least he's not a rapey psycho) until the Gob'ner put his hands on Maggie. After that, he couldn't die soon enough

Edited March 3, 2015 by Boofish

[CletusMusashi]

I want to see a scene where Carol sneaks over the wall to check something suspicious out, and she sees Enid, also checking it out, and they just sort of look at each other silently, keep going with their secret agendas, and then sneak back the ways they came in.

[90PercentGravity]

When they were taking all the guns, the little cart they used is the kind of cart they use in the big Amazon fulfillment centers. I'm surprised we haven't seen anyone scavenging those places. They are huge and have everything you could ever need and are all over the place. Maybe the Alexandrians have so much supplies because they raided an Amazon (or Walking Dead version of such).

[Bruinsfan]

The name gave me pause, too, but I decided not to read too much into it.  After all, I know a six year old named Gladys.  Just because most girls Enid's age are Kelsey or Caitlyn doesn't mean there aren't outliers. 

Let's face it, who's more likely to be prepared for keeping their kids alive in the Zombie Apocalypse, little Ashley's yuppy parents who practice aromatherapy, or the ones who homeschooled Keziah so they could teach her about the coming End Times while stocking their bomb shelter?