Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[formerlyfreedom]

Hey, have you heard that there's a spinoff in development? One that takes characters from both Arrow and The Flash?

 

Talk about that here, please!

[Sakura12]

I guess Caity's known about this for awhile from her facebook post.

 

 

 

Caity Lotz

1 hr ·
So happy to be able to share the news with you guys!!! We're baaacckkkk  

https://www.facebook.com/caitylotz

Edited February 27, 2015 by Sakura12

[ban1o]

If Sara is a live wouldn't this whole season be pointless. The whole conflict of the season is due to her death. I really doubt Caity Lotz will be playing Sara. 

[HighHopes]

I guess Caity's known about this for awhile from her facebook post.

That link sent me to a dead end, so here's the direct link to her post.

[statsgirl]

It seems legit because MG tweeted it:

 

On the one hand, thank god Ray is off the show. On the other, wtf that makes no sense

I don't mind Ray so much but maybe Laurel can join too?  I don't see how Arrow can accommodate her Black Canary because she's not good enough to be an equal partner to Oliver (and I'd resent the hell out of her giving Diggle orders) but her fame is such that she can't be a sidekick like Roy.

 

I wonder what they're going to do with Caity Lotz since Sara is so dead, not even Miracle Max can revive her.

 

Anyway, I'm happy for all those actors and hope it takes off.

[ban1o]

I remember Caity Lotz saying in an interview that Sara was definitely dead. Like for sure dead and never coming back. I'm really curious what is going on with her character. 

[statsgirl]

Lazarus Pit?  If they really wanted her back that is.

[Starfish35]

From MG's tumblr:

captainthomerica asked:

With this spin-off and Sara returning... Laurel fans aren't about to be screwed over, are they?

Nope.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/112191119654/with-this-spin-off-and-sara-returning-laurel

On the one hand, that dashed some of my hopes. On the other....he didn't actually deny that Sara was returning.

[NoWayOut]

It's going to be odd to have Caity Lotz play a new character if the rest of the cast are going to reprise their roles from their respective shows.

[Genki]

If she is Sara we can get all her post island LOA storylines that they initially had teased for Arrow.

I think more people would be invested in her as Sara than a Sara lookalike.

I'm torn, was kind of dreaming/hoping they would add Nyssa as a regular in Arrow S4 but now....

Edited February 27, 2015 by Genki

[ban1o]

If she is Sara we can get all her post island LOA storylines that they initially had teased for Arrow.

 

yeah this is what I was thinking that Sara would be in flashbacks but then what's really the point? to attract viewers? And then it's not really "a team up" 

And if Sara was being resurrected, that would be a game changing twist and not something they would spoil in the cast announcement for a tv show. The whole cast just seems so odd. Like why only HALF of firestorm? That makes no sense. 

[Chaser]

It's such an odd group of characters, I'm not sure what to make of it to be honest. I'm glad Ray won't be a regular on Arrow. I'm glad Caity Lotz will be making a return. I'm positive that Ray will be the Atom given all the effort they are putting into his character on Arrow. Caity is throwing me off. I want her to be Sara and want them to bring on Nyssa. But I have no clue how that would work on Arrow with the timeline.

[CabotCove]

I hope Caity Lotz is playing a new character, it would be so stupid to put everyone (fans and the character) through this whole Sara is dead saga, just to retcon it away later. Not to mention it would change the course of a whole season and of many characters in the show. Like would Diggle's daughter have to start using a middle name or something, if she even have one.

 

And while I'm all for Victor Garber, I'm confused about the lack of Robbie Amell. Does that mean no Firestorm?

 

Yeah I wonder whats happening there. Doesn't necessarily mean no firestorm though, they introduced Jason Rusch on the show, he is one of  the firestorms in comics and can fuse with Ronnie. But i think its too early to get rid of Ronnie/Stein combo, thats the classic version of Firestorm. They have got a good thing there with Robbie/Victor too.

 

I think if Ray is allowed to interact with the entire show, not just one character, and is allowed to have an actual romance, not just one meant to block Oliver/Felicity, he'll be fine. I haven't had any issues with Routh's acting, and Victor Garber is pretty good at making everyone around him look good.

 

 

-Except that he will be interacting with other characters for the reminder of his episodes on Arrow, likely,  it just hasn't happened yet.

-I think he was more than just a block for Oliver/Felicity, he became a legitimate alternate love interest for Felicity. It was super serious enough that they met in the premier, has been building up since then and Felicity has been the only person Ray has been allowed to interact with (for a long while).

-And as long as they are still in the same universe, he can still be an option for Felicity. Heck with time travel being introduced, different universes might not be a problem either.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Conell

[Lord Kira]

I'm sure the fan backlash to Sara's death, as well as people angry that it was done for Laurel's sake, is the reason Sara is coming back. The writers are probably  thinking: "Okay! Here, you can have Sara back. Geez. Now will you please like Laurel?"

 

I hope Sara's backstory with Nyssa and the LOA can be explored here. I always thought it was a waste to kill off Sara when their were plenty of flashbacks to be done with her training with the LOA and meeting Nyssa, as well as her relationship with Nyssa in the present.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Lord Kira

[ban1o]

I'm sure the fan backlash to Sara's death, as well as people angry that it was done for Laurel's sake, is the reason Sara is coming back. The writers are probably like. "Okay! Here, you can have Sara back. Geez. Now will please like Laurel?"

 

The thing is Laurel's popularity has increased and it's not like the ratings have dropped at all so I doubt they brought Sara beck to appease fans. I'm don't think Sara is returning, at least in present. 

[CabotCove]

I hope its an anthology series, I hate "team up" shows.

[Lord Kira]

The thing is Laurel's popularity has increased and it's not like the ratings have dropped at all so I doubt they brought Sara beck to appease fans. I'm don't think Sara is returning, at least in present. 

 

I think she'll be back. Whats the point of having a Lazarus Pit if you aren't going to use it?

 

Maybe she'll get the Jason Todd treatment and come back crazy. These writers do love to rip-off Batman stories, so its a distinct possibility.

[NoWayOut]

They can't be giving everyone else present day scenes and only flashbacks for Sara.

[writersblock51]

With only half of Firestorm on this possible show, perhaps what we'll be seeing is actually a time warp version of the characters?

 

Otherwise, I don't see how Sara can be alive in present day without invalidating Arrow's 3rd season so far.

 

I am happy for Caity Lotz, and I think the lineup is interesting, to say the least.

 

Naive perhaps, but I had hoped that her on this show meant that Laurel's time on Arrow was coming to an end and we saw that Arrow's Who Killed Sara was all part of an elaborate ruse by .... someone. No clue who.

[Lord Kira]

I think Robbie Amell will be in this. His deal probably isn't finalized yet. 

With only half of Firestorm on this possible show, perhaps what we'll be seeing is actually a time warp version of the characters?

 

Otherwise, I don't see how Sara can be alive in present day without invalidating Arrow's 3rd season so far.

 

 

I think, if not the Lazarus Pit, the Flash mucking around with his time travel will cause the timeline to change a bit. Maybe Sara never dies in the first place, etc. I'm sure many people will be completely fine with erasing most of Arrow's 3rd season from continuity.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Lord Kira

[statsgirl]

I don't see how they can have only half of Firestorm on the show, and it's the half without the abs.

 

They've got to put it into the same timeline as Arrow and The Flash, right? Otherwise they shut themselves out of cross-overs.

 

Lazarus Pit makes the most sense for Sara. If they do a time travel, she's got to be alive on the Arrow show too, and her death was (supposed) to be the arc for this season  (I say supposed because only Felicity seemed working to find her killer.)

 

Please have Laurel go over ... please have Laurel go over ... please have Laurel go over.

 

I think Thea as Speedy in the Arrow cave makes much more sense than Laurel being there.

[loki567]

 

I'm sure many people will be completely fine with erasing most of Arrow's 3rd season from continuity.

 

Absolutely. Like I'm suppose to be mad that Sara alive invalidates season three when the entire season has been godawful? I'm much prefer Sara alive and have this season put behind me as quickly as possible.

Edited February 27, 2015 by loki567

[NoWayOut]

Many BC enthusiasts bring up the fact that BC is a far better fighter than Oliver and want to see that on the show. They obviously aren't going to have her best Oliver on his own show so I say move her over to this spinoff and let her be the best of the best!

[Trini]

The original article: http://deadline.com/2015/02/arrow-flash-spin-off-cw-new-superhero-series-1201382466/

 

Things are still in development; I think it's more likely than not that Robbie Amell will be part of this. His name just didn't make this first report.

 

I don't know if they're planning on resurrecting Sara Lance, but this universe could use a few more female heroes AND villainesses.

[calliope1975]

My fingers are crossed this gets picked up and Arrow gets an overhaul. I'm trying to figure out how they would bring Sara back. Clone or twin is lame - not that that has stopped this team before. I really like the idea of The Flash tripping into some alternate universe, but if he changes one thing, wouldn't everything be changed? (That's what happened in the cartoon movie I watched of Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox. I had quit reading The Flash when the comic came out so I'm sure about that.) And when Barry fixed the universe, everything was back to normal. 

 

I would like to trade Laurel for Sara.

[CabotCove]

They can't be giving everyone else present day scenes and only flashbacks for Sara.

 

They can, if its an anthology series.

 

Otherwise, I don't see how Sara can be alive in present day without invalidating Arrow's 3rd season so far.

 

Ditto, it has major repercussions on the show. But stranger things have happened, so who knows.

I am happy for Caity Lotz, and I think the lineup is interesting, to say the least.

 

Maybe they will expand.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Conell

[Artsda]

I want to trade too!

[Lord Kira]

Killing off Sara, when Caity did most of her own stunts, in favor of Laurel was baffling in the first place. Why would I want to see Laurel's stunt double run around when I can see Caity do things herself?

 

I hope Katrina Law and Dominic Purcell get in on this. Katrina had good chemistry with Caity, and of course we know Dominic and Wentworth are awesome together.

 

I said it in of the other threads, but I really do hope this is an ensemble show with no one particular lead. Because out of all of the talent involved, I think only Wentworth Miller is good enough to be the one lead. And since we all know Captain Cold won't be the main character, making it a true ensemble will play to everyone's strengths.

 

Arrow's mistake was in trying to make a show about one particular hero into an ensemble. This show can be an ensemble right from the get go.

 

Plus, maybe seeing Ray interact with people other than Felicity will improve people's opinion of him.

[Starfish35]

Personally I'm not even remotely interested in an anthology series. If that's what this really is. Or even a summer mini-series. Agent Carter worked for me because I already cared about Peggy. I don't care about any of these characters except for Sara. And only if they bring her back alive somehow - I'm not interested in any prequel nonsense.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Starfish35

[Lord Kira]

I would like to trade Laurel for Sara.

 

Knowing Mark G, he'd just have Laurel pull double duty and have her on both shows. 

[NoWayOut]

They can if its an anthology series.

It's basically going to be a reminder that the only reason we aren't getting present day Sara is because she's dead and to enjoy the rest of heroes that are still breathing.

[loki567]

Personally I'm not even remotely interested in an anthology series. If that's what this really is.

 

I can't see it. The CW isn't the type of network to do that. And the writing's been going all in on these superhero team-ups, that's the show they want to do. 

 

Somebody else said it, they know these characters aren't strong enough to launch a show individually so they're shoving them all together. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by loki567

[Lantern7]

I'm thinking time travel fuckery. Seriously, Sara is dead. She's ceased to be. The whole Monty Python routine . . . she's a dead Canary. Meanwhile there's a timeline where Sara could dodge three arrows from a drugged-up Thea.

 

I can see this "series" as The Brave And The Bold, an anthology series that -- like Agent Carter on ABC -- fills in whenever The Flash and/or Arrow is on hiatus.

[Trini]

Maybe instead of continually trying out new spin-off ideas on Arrow and Flash, they're doing this instead.

 

Also, looking at the announcement again, I think the writer just picked the biggest names to mention. If this makes it to series, I bet we'll see a bunch of characters/actors that have been on both shows appear.

[tarotx]

besides the Lararus pit, DC has a character who can resurect themselves. I read an issue a two a while back. Though I think not very popular so small time, but perhaps the show can create a Sara version of him. That way Sara can came back but not create a slippery slope.

[CabotCove]

I can't see it. The CW isn't the type of network to do that. And the writing's been going all in on these superhero team-ups, that's the show they want to do.

 

They are now, the CW is developing an anthology series for next season: Tales of the Darkside (reboot).

 

http://tvline.com/2015/02/02/pilot-the-cw-tales-from-the-darkside-reboot/

 

But you could be right, it could a superhero team up show. Just that anything is game at this point, the project is still in the works.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Conell

[Belinea]

Maybe Ra's knew Sara was killed and had his minions dug up her grave and put her in the Lazarus pit? But then again, why would he?

 

I am confused by when it is supposed to be airing? It said early development. So is it next season? Or during mid-season? Cause I don't think that the people at the CW would pass on a show that has Victor Garbor (who I personally love, because SpyDaddy) and Brandon Routh as superheros on a DC show. Seeing as it could skip pilot season, it must be pretty clear to them what the show will look like.

 

The EPs probably knew that a show featuring only the ATOM or Firestorm might not attracted as many viewers as they'd like. In the case with the ATOM, they cannot deny that Arrow fans (not all but some) have problems with his character that go beyond having sex with Felicity.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Belinea

[loki567]

They are now,the CW is developing an anthology series for next season; Tales of the Darkside (reboot).

 

http://tvline.com/2015/02/02/pilot-the-cw-tales-from-the-darkside-reboot/

 

But you could be right, it could a superhero team up show. Just that anything is game at this point, the project is still in the works.

 

Yeah, but there's a difference between that kinda anthology series and one like American Horror Story where you have a main cast you have to cater to. 

 

I tell you what, if there's really one badass spin-off I love to see which is impossible now because of the movie, is a Suicide Squad with Diggle as the main character. Waller as the shady boss. Then Deadshot, Slade, Sara, Nyssa. Robbert Knepper and Wentworth Miller for the Prison Break reunion. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by loki567

[Lord Kira]

It doesn't really matter to me what the particulars of Sara's resurrection are. Lazarus Pit, time travel, aliens. As long as she is back, I don't care.

 

Sara can crawl of of her grave, look around and shout "I'm back, bitches!" and it would still be better than most of this season. It would still be a more believable scenario than Laurel as the Black Canary.

Edited February 27, 2015 by Lord Kira

[CabotCove]

Yeah, but there's a difference between that kinda anthology series and one like American Horror Story where you have a main cast you have to cater to.

 

I don't watch american horror story (beyond season 1) so im not sure what that means. Do you mean that they could be a regular, ensemble main cast each season in this new superhero show? The one CW is picking up (Tales)  seems very ambitious, they will basically be having a new main cast each episode or 2, new characters, new actors and stories per episode.  What could be more challenging than that ...

 

 

The EPs probably knew that a show featuring only the ATOM or Firestorm might not attracted as many viewers as they'd like. In the case with the ATOM, they cannot deny that Arrow fans (not all but some) have problems with his character that go beyond having sex with Felicity.

 

That may not be the whole or even the real story. It could be that there were too many good spin offs ideas spinning around and they couldn't decide which one, Atom, Firestorm, Suicide Squad, Birds of prey have been floating around for a while. And they are also plenty of characters/heroes/villains from Arrow & Flash that have been benched and are just itching to be used again. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by Conell

[loki567]

Well on a regular anthology series like Tales from the Darkside, you begin and end a story each episode. You pay your actors for one episode, that's it. They're not under contract for more than one episode, usually. You don't have a regular cast who expect to be on a majority of the episodes in a season.

 

Wentworth Miller, Brandon Routh, and Victor Garber are all reasonably big (tv) names and could probably get themselves into projects where they'd be on a majority of the episodes and get paid for it. They're not going to want to be on a show where they're drifting in-and-out every other episode and not get a full check.  

 

I don't think you can make that type of anthology show work in live-action. Animation, yes. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by loki567

[CabotCove]

@ loki567  OK thanks I got it now. So it might not be the anthology I was expecting.

 

I guess it could be a show like Justice League (unlimited) animated  were there was a main, regular ensemble cast but also featured guest appearances from other characters once in a while. Someone also mentioned Brave and the bold.  I could deal with that too. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by Conell

[Lokiberry]

I'm so hyped about this, particularly Caity's return. I actually like Firestorm (both halves), think Captain Cold is cool (and hot), and don't hate Ray (possibly because I stopped  watching after the first couple of episodes this season).

 

I don't do twitter, could someone tweet MG and ask him which character Sara is going to be? Obviously, she's not going to be BC, since Laurel's got a death grip on that. I'm okay with it. I guess I'm just tired of being upset about the whole thing.

 

OMG, I just had a thought: you don't think they're going to make her Batwoman, do you?!

Edited February 27, 2015 by Lokiberry

[FurryFury]

Now, if they get Nyssa/Katrina Law in this and have her and Sara officially be a couple, then I would watch no matter how much they no doubt will try and shove Ray down my throat.

 

I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but as a big fan of Sara, I don't want Nyssa anywhere near her. I'm still not over her trying to kill Dinah in "Heir to the Demon" and preferring Sara to be dead over her not coming back to the League. It's really soured me on the character. I would be OK with her recurring, just this not being an epic romance, because it reminds me of stuff like Delena or Rumbelle or whatever - couples when one person always forgives the other no matter what bad stuff they've done.

 

Otherwise - thrilled about this not being a Firestorm show and no word about Robbie Amell. His acting is as bad as KC, really, and even Victor Garber wouldn't make me watch a spin-off centered on Robbie's character. I don't watch Arrow in s3 and have no opinion on Ray and Brandon Routh, but at least he's probably a better actor. 

 

Captain Cold was OK, nothing special, but I can imagine him becoming an interesting character. Plus, I have a soft spot for redeemed villains (or maybe unredeemed, whatever).

 

Overall, I like this news, although obviously a lot of my goodwill hinges on Caity's role. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by FurryFury

[insubordination]

I'm already fearful they'll hook Sara up with Ray.

 

I really wish it were Brandon and Katie Cassidy with the spin-off.

[Danny Franks]

So I would be excited about this move, if not for the charisma vacuum being the lead, and that really shitty actor who played Captain Cold. If they throw in Robbie 'MDF' Amell, it would be a real triumvirate of suck. Caity Lotz? Awesome. But the track record these guys have for female characters is now so terrible that I'm sure she will only be there as a love interest for one of those guys.

 

And it won't even necessarily get Routh off Arrow, because if the idea is that this is an alternate universe created by The Flash, where Sara didn't die, that means the Palmer in Arrow is not the same as the Palmer in this proposed show.

 

I would watch a Sara/Nyssa spinoff in a heartbeat, even while worried that both characters would be ruined by the terrible writing. This one? Not sure at all. I've had too much recent experience with show-killing characters to get excited.

[tv echo]

This is the best news that I've heard out of these EPs in a long, long time - just because it gets Ray off of Arrow. Hopefully, Arrow will return to being about Oliver.

 

I hope that Sara does not hook up with Ray Palmer because: one, I like her with Nyssa, and, two, Ray can't romance every woman that Oliver's romanced.  I mean, what next?  Helena shows up on the spin-off and hooks up with Ray as well?

 

Do the EPs realize that Sara being alive kinda undermines the whole hero journey of Laurel becoming the BC out of grief for her sister's death (from avenging her to honoring her to becoming her) and also the whole emotional arc for Quentin this season?

 

Since this is all the same universe, there's likely to be cross-overs so it'd be kinda hard to hide the fact that Sara's alive.  But maybe that's why they had Laurel's motivation change recently.  But still, now what's the point of

Quentin's upcoming anger/grief-driven quest against Team Arrow

?

Edited February 27, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

They wouldn't bring Laurel over. That's the whole reason Sara died, they couldn't have two Canaries especially one that was far superior than other.

I like that they are saying Caity's character is a surprise. Because Sara being alive is a huge spoiler. But if it's a spinoff from Arrow she really can't be anyone else. Also if Sara is alive I want Katrina to join her on that show.

Of course if she's not playing Sara I'm for her playing Lady Blackhawk. They can pretend that Zinda Blake is related to the Lances.

[tv echo]

MG tumblr responses about the spin-off...

clandestine619 asked:
Can I say I am honestly so excited Caity lotz is returning to our TV screens. I love her. Congrats on the new show, I'm sure it will be a success like the other. Do you guys ever sleep?

We’re thrilled about having Caity back in the fold where she belongs.
Now explain this “sleep” thing to me.  Sounds interesting.

uncleiroh626 asked:
Just earlier today, I sent an ask about if we'd see a wider spread of heroes in the Arrowverse. And then this news drops. This wonderful, amazing news. All aboard the hype train.

Thank you!  It’s exciting!

captainthomerica asked:
With this spin-off and Sara returning... Laurel fans aren't about to be screwed over, are they?

Nope.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/

Edited February 27, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

Her death is still important to LL/BC journey because it is what happened to the characters & they still had to go through the grief process. Just like what happened when OQ & SL died the first time. Just because someone comes back from the dead does not negate all the emotions & turmoil that happened to the people left behind while you were gone. So I dont think it would undermine the journey.

 

I think a parallel universe would be harder to sell where Sara is alive but not able to be in SC would be confusing & irritating. If CL is not gonna play someone completely new, than clone or proxy/alien would make the most sense. Like I said either we buried the wrong Sara & the real one returns or something happened to her in her time off the show that somehow cloned/duplicated her prior to her death & that one returns. To just resurrect her from the dead or via pit would be a little too cliche & start a slippery slope for characters being conveniently resurrected from the dead for plot. Its likes what some people have said about bringing back Tommy, its a slippery slope. I think the opportunities to do something cool with her character are boundless, that they should not just resort to she's just back from the dead again.