S23: Derek Hough

[Andie1]

Just a note, Ballroom is NOT harder than Ballet. It is different, with an emphasis on a different type of technique.Ballet is hella tough, especially for the elite dancer. Derek is an outstanding dancer, he's one of the greats in his style. But when he crosses over he has a tendency to find something he likes that's been done by experts in that style to use on DWTS, which is fine (it would be nice if he credited the choreographer) but it's ultimately unsatisfying because we've already seen it done before and better on SYTYCD.

 

Derek also trained in formation style dancing in Utah and that's why we get a lot of drill team type movement, synchronized arms and whatever that looks good because its easy for an untrained celebrity to do.  We get it.  It's been done to death.

Finally we got something more creative this season on the winning team dance, which wasn't Derek's team. 

 

Ultimately if Derek does fusion styles then great, keep working at it. For my money  Jason Gilkinson is the expert. His Burn The Floor shows are a great showcase for ballroom with contemporary elements because ballroom is amazing in technique but is limiting in terms of leaps and lifts. The first season Jason choreographed on SYTYCD it was a revelation and made ballroom cool again because he was able to convey a story, give us great technical dancing with the wow factor that contemporary style affords.  Check out this Viennese Waltz. These two are contemporary dancers with little training in ballroom. But what made it great was not only the contemporary elements but the continuous motion of 3/4 Viennese Waltz timing and waltz steps that grounded the dance in ballroom. It doesn't hurt that ballet, the foundation style for most dancing uses waltz basics. 

[ocelot]

I don't know that Derek has claimed to be anything other than a ballroom dancer.

 

He didn't, I was talking about his fans and specifically referring to the post I quoted.

 

 

As for the comparison between the two routines of "It's Too Darn Hot", it's a comparison of apples and oranges to me.  Derek is dancing with a non-dancer with limited range of movement and choreographed and danced accordingly while the SYTYCD dance routine was choreographed by a professional jazz choreographer and danced by TWO professional dancers.  Derek did his job by choreographing to his partner's capabilities and hot out-dancing her.

 

That's why I said to compare the men in the dances not the women but I understand your point. Any of the jazz dances Derek has done actually, the effect is the same--there's just a fundamental difference in dance ability. We could argue he's dancing down for his partners, but I've never seen him display anything more advanced than that, ever, so idk.

 

Derek's fans say he IS as good as a professional broadway choreographer, and they often say he is actually better ("brilliant""genius") at their profession than they are.

Edited November 20, 2015 by ocelot

[ocelot]

I did not mean to offend anyone. I don't know anything about technique. I did not mean to say Derek has technique but just to mention that the ballerina asked him to choreograph for her.

 

I'm sorry that my post was too harsh. You didn't do anything wrong or offensive, you don't need to be sorry. I get too passionate in these conversations and should watch myself more. I really apologize, please don't let my post deter you from posting here.

 

Also, I do think Derek is an amazing latin/ballroom dancer. I would never call him a bad dancer.

Edited November 20, 2015 by ocelot

[DancingD]

It's got to be hard and stressful every week, trying to top yourself. I'm sure he's not happy that Allison out-choreographed him with the team dances this year, he probably feels like he dropped the proverbial ball. But my goodness, he's given us some great moments with more to come. I've enjoyed seeing Mark up his game the last few seasons too. In fact, most of the young pros work very hard to be creative and fresh. They have to, to stay on the show. 

 

It's all a bonus for us. I will admit I adore Derek and his talent. But it doesn't drive me to hate Val, or Maks, or any of the "family". Or post on their threads saying derogatory things about them. I don't get why that's needed. These young people are all working their hardest to have the best career they can. Some will get more recognition than others, but they don't actually have power over that part of it. 

 

And yeah, we've often commented at home on how Derek's actual dancing reminds us of Gene or Fred at different moments. It's style, slink, musicality. He's not a powerful contemporary dancer like Jacob Karler, but he's matured into stuff that's his own. If you want to see him dance big, go back to videos of his first couple of seasons on the show. It's pretty LOL worthy at times. 

[Andie1]

Just fyi, I was not comparing dancers, I was comparing choreographers.  I think Jason Gilkison is someone that maybe someday Derek can emulate, because he took the world by storm with Burn the Floor.  Derek also seems to like to swipe Travis Walls' choreography. So if he's interested he can check out a great ballet hip hop contemporary fusion Travis did right on dwts 

 

[gohawks]

I just don't see the Gene Kelly comparison. Derek lacks maturity and masculinity. He just comes off as boyish and non-sexual, IMO. Gene Kelly was athletic, mature,masculine, and sexy.

Edited November 22, 2015 by gohawks

[Andie1]

I just don't see the Gene Kelly comparison. Derek lacks maturity and masculinity. He just comes off as boyish and non-sexual, IMO. Gene Kelly was athletic, mature,masculine, and sexy.

 

Interesting, when I think of someone who was like Gene Kelly, I think of Kurt Browning. 

 

That was 1994,  and 20 years later he performed the routine on Stars on Ice. I would prefer to talk about Gene Kelly comparisons once there is some professional longevity. Kurt had already been an international celebrity for 10 years when he did this routine in 94.

[Serendi]

That was an amazingly well done version of a classic. Thanks for linking.

[kitcloudkicker]

I dunno, I would say he USED to be incredibly boyish, but he's been working on that: http://www.ferrvor.com/blog/derek-hough/

He's still not going to be everyone's jam, but he falls into that group of guys that don't come into peak attractiveness until around 35/40+ (He's not usually my thing, but a few of those photos from that shoot made me think, "well damn")

Thing is, I totally get that it's annoying when his most ardent fans declare him to be the best ever, can do no wrong, at every single style evah. I get that. And his dances are not all perfect and not above criticism. But my particular pet peeve is when it swings too far in the other direction, and it feels like, "Well he needs to Stay In His Lane. He'll never be as knowledgeable as someone who specialized in contemporary since they were 3, so he shouldn't attempt them. Stick to ballroom, kid."

For me, if theres's a movement style that's drawing someone to it, I want to see them explore it. What happens when someone whose base movement is based in rumba or waltz interprets contemporary movement? Maybe something interesting will happen. (Maybe not.) But I like watching people try it. And that goes for everyone, not just Derek. It's actually what got me hooked on SYTYCD forever ago. Like, you wouldn't have gotten that hummingbird contemporary between Hok and Jaime Goodwin if Hok had been a classically trained contemporary dancer. It was the hip hop movement quality he had patterned in his body that made it such a contrast, and so cool.

Edited November 22, 2015 by kitcloudkicker

[ocelot]

He's still not going to be everyone's jam, but he falls into that group of guys that don't come into peak attractiveness until around 35/40+ (He's not usually my thing, but a few of those photos from that shoot made me think, "well damn")

Agree, he's much more attractive now then he was even 5 years ago. And I feel like he's just going to continue aging well.

 

Thing is, I totally get that it's annoying when his most ardent fans declare him to be the best ever, can do no wrong, at every single style evah. I get that. And his dances are not all perfect and not above criticism. But my particular pet peeve is when it swings too far in the other direction, and it feels like, "Well he needs to Stay In His Lane. He'll never be as knowledgeable as someone who specialized in contemporary since they were 3, so he shouldn't attempt them. Stick to ballroom, kid."

Again I think it's fine if he tries it but where it gets incredibly annoying is when people act like his work is on the same level as or better than people who are professionals. Reading comments about his contemporary dances calling him a genius and saying things like 'this sets a new bar for contemporary' is to me like if Allison choreographed a waltz that had next to zero waltz content and what there was was danced horribly with incorrect technique, the judges gave it three 10s and declared it the best waltz ever, people called her a genius and said things like 'this sets a new bar for the waltz,' and then it won an emmy. Literally it's that bad for me.

Edited November 22, 2015 by ocelot

[Andie1]

 

But my particular pet peeve is when it swings too far in the other direction, and it feels like, "Well he needs to Stay In His Lane. He'll never be as knowledgeable as someone who specialized in contemporary

True. There's nothing wrong with fusion of styles. Derek and Allison's fusion of paso /tango contemporary a few seasons back was brilliant. Why? Because it was developed organically from each style. You have to respect that. I loved that piece.  So I'm all for  Derek, trying new things, and being inspired by other choreographers, but try them from his experiences, make them organic instead of ripping them from SYTYCD or youtube choreography that's been done and credit not given. I used to think the Schwimmers were being so petty when Julianne ripped a number of moves from the Black Mambo that was created by Alex DaSilva and Benji Schwimmer. But, now I understand the disappointment. The creative process is tough so credit should be paid.  Love or hate Val the guy always acknowledges the original choreographer even though there's an expert ballroom dancer with ballroom dance moves in the piece.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Andie1

[Uke]

Interesting, when I think of someone who was like Gene Kelly, I think of Kurt Browning. 

 

That was 1994,  and 20 years later he performed the routine on Stars on Ice. I would prefer to talk about Gene Kelly comparisons once there is some professional longevity. Kurt had already been an international celebrity for 10 years when he did this routine in 94.

 

I remember this from so long ago. What I enjoy is that Kurt looks like he's just having fun playing the role and the story of the song-the carefree, cheekiness of it.

 

In related news, Derek may get his wish to play Gene Kelly after all.  Looks like Harvey Weinstein is working to bring Singing in the Rain to Broadway. Derek certainly has the dancing talent for the role, but I'm not too sure about his acting ability. Reviews for that movie he did weren't too complimentary (for his acting) and the movie tanked badly.

http://variety.com/2015/legit/news/singin-in-the-rain-broadway-harvey-weinstein-1201646802/ . 

Now it makes me think, put Derek and Kurt head-to-head in an audition, I wonder who would win out (excluding Weinstein's apparent friendship with Derek).   Kurt does have some acting credits on IMDB, but then too, he's pushing 50.

[realdancemom]

Thank you for the Travis and Kurt links.  I previously watched the Travis one but enjoyed it again.  Kurt was so good in Singing In The Rain.  I always enjoyed watching him in the Olympics.  He knew how to perform/dance on skates and not just do power tricks.

 

I got a giggle from the Travis link because Tom said that Travis was a hip-hop choreographer as well as a contemporary choreographer.  No, he's not and there really wasn't any hip-hop choreography in the piece if any.  So I guess it's similar to what people don't like about Derek.  They don't mind if Tom says that Derek is a ballroom/Latin choreographer but he's really not a contemporary choreographer. 

[Andie1]

Well there was some b-boy moves in the piece, and to be fair, Travis choreographed contemporary ballet to  Nuttin But Stringz, their music is a fusion of contemporary/ballet and hip hop.  It's not easy to choreograph to that type of music if you're not aware of the styles.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Andie1

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Derek is going out with the trophy.  So well deserved.

 

I've had a sense all season that he was playing with house money - kind of the equivalent of an older person who has decided to just live as she/he wants and the heck with what anyone thinks.  I also believe he felt a particular warmth/love for his partner.  

 

All in all, quite the farewell tour.  

[ocelot]

Wait is there a reason people are talking like this is Derek's last season? I thought he had one last season on his contract?

 

And despite his contract, I don't personally believe he'll ever leave the show as long as it's running. It is the only thing that keeps his name in the news, that gives him a chance to display his work. I don't think he has any other projects going on? Other than Move tour, which is also pretty dependent on DWTS. 

[smiley13]

Derek is going out 

 

All in all, quite the farewell tour.  

Lord willing, please let him leave!!

[Danseur]

I think his contract extends one more season, but no one knows whether he will be a Pro or be assigned something else.

Derek was in discussions with Harvey Weinstein about doing a remake of "Singing in the Rain" on Broadway. He mentioned it in a Q and A during his Move Tour in August, but has said nothing about it again. Yesterday, Variety published an article about The Weinstein Company bring it to Broadway in 2016 but the cast was not announced.

http://variety.com/2015/legit/news/singin-in-the-rain-broadway-harvey-weinstein-1201646802/

In October, Jared Grimes (the tap dancer in New York Spring Spectacular) posted the following tweet which has stirred up talk about Derek's being involved.

Shared from Twitter: Jared Grimes on Instagram: “My homie @derekhough is on tv #dancingwiththestars each week…. I’m in pre-production for the feature film #breakingbrooklyn and yet we are still tapping the same tune about a monster collab…????. Will you be ready for it when it hits? Aaaah the suspense???? #whitenights #holidayinn #blueskies #singingintherain #sammydavisjr. #franksinatra #genekelly #donaldoconnor #jerrylewis #deanmartin #gregoryhines #baryshnikov #tap #tapdance #ballroom #dance #brothers @weinsteinco”

[ocelot]

Moving this to here because I think it's a more appropriate place!

 

Two people doing the same lift in different dances does not equal stealing choreography. Neither does Witney using the same "holding lights while doing synchronized arm movements" that NappyTabs did for the Move tour. Both of those moments happened in the context of larger creative decisions, that may be inspired by, but I didn't see as ripped off at all.

 

I wasn't just talking about the lifts. Much of their choreography is reminiscent of other choreographers, especially Mark. I've been noticing that all season. I made comments about that in reference to Mark and Alexa's jazz at the beginning of the season, before the lifts happened. I don't think it's a terrible thing, which I said at the time, because to me it shows that he is trying to learn and really pick up the style, even develop a voice, which I think is admirable.

 

But those were two really distinctive lifts from the same dance that Derek used two weeks in a row. So it's noticeable.

Edited November 24, 2015 by ocelot

[kitcloudkicker]

I wouldn't be surprised if Derek learned them from Travis - they are, if not friends, friendly, and they've worked together recently, with Travis adapting his Unchained Melody piece for Derek & Julianne's tour. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/7lDzrZKK4E/

https://www.instagram.com/p/3ZXXFyKK8L/

traviswall: LOVE THESE THREE!! Just finished choreographing @juleshough and @mrjasonglover duet for Derek and Julianne's MOVE Live tour this summer. Check them out!

 

 

The bits and pieces borrowed, for me, fall into "inspired/influenced by" rather than "stolen from." Last week's lift was distinctive by being placed in a Viennese Waltz, and this week's choreo, while not my favorite ever, had enough un-Travis stuff, like the kind of twirls and spinny lifts you see in Viennese Waltzes, to make it distinct from what a Travis would do. It's not surprising to me that people who work together might get inspired by each other, or teach each other tricks. But creativity is a whole mushy, collaborative, networked thing for me, and not a lone genius kind of thing. I like the mushiness, and get frustrated when people in my field get too precious about their ideas.

 

This is also why I don't quite get the outrage about outside choreographers, as well. Coming up with a completely original idea in a day or two, every week for 10 weeks is hard, yo. It's easier to have someone to bounce ideas off of. If any of them want to have Alan Salazar come in every week, I salute them. (Except maybe not just Alan, or we'll run ourselves into a Mandy Moore situation where things start to look all samey.) 

[ari333]

I know Derek can be annoying, but I think he's amazing. And he knows how to play the game. I'll give him that. And yes, he pulls some cheese moves and pranks and gets away with it. I get that.

[ocelot]

The bits and pieces borrowed, for me, fall into "inspired/influenced by" rather than "stolen from." Last week's lift was distinctive by being placed in a Viennese Waltz, and this week's choreo, while not my favorite ever, had enough un-Travis stuff, like the kind of twirls and spinny lifts you see in Viennese Waltzes, to make it distinct from what a Travis would do. It's not surprising to me that people who work together might get inspired by each other, or teach each other tricks. But creativity is a whole mushy, collaborative, networked thing for me, and not a lone genius kind of thing. I like the mushiness, and get frustrated when people in my field get too precious about their ideas.

 

This is also why I don't quite get the outrage about outside choreographers, as well. Coming up with a completely original idea in a day or two, every week for 10 weeks is hard, yo. It's easier to have someone to bounce ideas off of. If any of them want to have Alan Salazar come in every week, I salute them. (Except maybe not just Alan, or we'll run ourselves into a Mandy Moore situation where things start to look all samey.) 

 

That picture of them at the Emmys is too cute. Also cute that he choreographed for Julianne and Jason since Jason was in Travis's first ever duet he choreographed on so you think (Jeanine and Jason).

 

I agree with you that it's inspired by and not stolen, and I didn't see much or any Travis in Bindi's freestyle and viennese waltz other than the two lifts. They just stood out to me.

 

I think they should have outside choreographers. I think anytime the pros have to do something outside their specialty the show should give them an outside choreographer. It's not fair to the contestant and it kind of makes the pro look foolish and I feel bad for them. I feel like that would take some of the emphasis off the pro and give it back to the celeb contestant, too, which would be a good thing in my opinion.

[Uke]

I think they should have outside choreographers. I think anytime the pros have to do something outside their specialty the show should give them an outside choreographer. It's not fair to the contestant and it kind of makes the pro look foolish and I feel bad for them. I feel like that would take some of the emphasis off the pro and give it back to the celeb contestant, too, which would be a good thing in my opinion.

 

I think the issue is not that the pros call in outside choreographers (some on occasion, others apparently quite frequently), it's more that some don't acknowledge that they've gotten outside help and will pass off the choreo as their own. 

[Danseur]

Kitcloudkicker,

Your entire post on the other thread is fascinating to me because you bring up the historical, philosophical question of the nature of the creative process. It's something as a former English professor I have spent years studying. Most of the world's great artists have contributed to the discussion in some form or another.

What you said above and the book you quoted reminded me of the famous statement by Pablo Picasso, "A bad artist copies, a good artist steals." It would take too long to say enough about the meaning of that here, but his statement does support your contention. What Picasso means by it is, to steal something is to make it your own in a unique way. No artist owns an idea, a word, a dance move, etc. An artist owns an entire poem, an entire dance, a painting, a completed piece. Stealing the ideas of others, in the Picasso sense of the word, means taking them and doing your own thing with them, as opposed to just trying to imitate the work of someone else. I could list quotes from many artists in various fields who say something similar.

Another interesting fact is that one of the lifts that is referenced in this discussion is also used in Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet ballet which was choreographed in 1938 (? or close). Travis didn't create that move and neither did Derek. I have no idea if it was first created in 1938 or before.

[ocelot]

Another interesting fact is that one of the lifts that is referenced in this discussion is also used in Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet ballet which was choreographed in 1938 (? or close). Travis didn't create that move and neither did Derek. I have no idea if it was first created in 1938 or before.

 

Never meant to imply that Travis invented a lift. That would be a weird thing to say. They are both uncommon and pretty distinct lifts in terms of these dance shows, I don't remember ever seeing them on SYTYCD or DWTS except in the one Travis contemporary and now in these two recent Bindi dances.

Edited November 25, 2015 by ocelot

[Danseur]

No, I know you didn't say or imply that. I used the lift only as an example of how all artists "steal" from one another in the Picasso sense of that word.

[LizDC]

Congrats Derek. Now go away and take your sister and Mark and his stupid man bun with you.

[treeofdreams]

Congratulations to Derek!  I loved his partnership with Bindi and how much he appreciated her.  After all these seasons that he has been on DWTS, it was wonderful to see him get so enthused about his partner.

[kitcloudkicker]

Your entire post on the other thread is fascinating to me because you bring up the historical, philosophical question of the nature of the creative process. It's something as a former English professor I have spent years studying. Most of the world's great artists have contributed to the discussion in some form or another.

What you said above and the book you quoted reminded me of the famous statement by Pablo Picasso, "A bad artist copies, a good artist steals." It would take too long to say enough about the meaning of that here, but his statement does support your contention. What Picasso means by it is, to steal something is to make it your own in a unique way. No artist owns an idea, a word, a dance move, etc. An artist owns an entire poem, an entire dance, a painting, a completed piece. Stealing the ideas of others, in the Picasso sense of the word, means taking them and doing your own thing with them, as opposed to just trying to imitate the work of someone else. I could list quotes from many artists in various fields who say something similar.

Another interesting fact is that one of the lifts that is referenced in this discussion is also used in Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet ballet which was choreographed in 1938 (? or close). Travis didn't create that move and neither did Derek. I have no idea if it was first created in 1938 or before.

There is a Brian Eno quote:

"I'm fascinated by musicians who don't completely understand their territory; that's when you do your best work."

I guess I share his fascination. He allegedly makes his studio musicians switch instruments, and play ones they didn't know, to get more interesting results. (A lot of times, really terrible results. But occasionally interesting.) But I like watching people explore that space that is just beyond where they're comfortable. And sometimes, you get the best answers from a dumb novice who doesn't know why they're "wrong" and therefore turn out to be right.

The book I referenced tends toward the history of technological inventions, but the process tends toward the same. He calls it the "adjacent possible" where new ideas trend not to be great leaps, but a pinging off of nearby inspirations. His advice for creative people is to have plenty of unrelated hobbies -- which a lot of the most successful pros on this show do, Derek included.

"The patterns are simple, but followed together, they make for a whole that is wiser than the sum of its parts. Go for a walk; cultivate hunches; write everything down, but keep your folders messy; embrace serendipity; make generative mistakes; take on multiple hobbies; frequent coffeehouses and other liquid networks; follow the links; let others build on your ideas; borrow, recycle, reinvent. Build a tangled bank."

[Danseur]

That's beautiful. Here's another Brian Eno one I love, "I wanted to hear music that had not yet happened, by putting together things that suggested a new thing which did not yet exist."

And one of my favorites on this subject: "A good poet will usually borrow from authors remote in time, or alien in language or diverse in interest." T.S. Eliot

If you want to create anything you have to take from something that exists and put it with something else that exists which results in a new thing.

[Artymouse]

Here's one from Woody Guthrie on the same subject: "Take a tune. When they sing high, make it low. When they sing fast, make it slow. And you've got a new tune."

I don't know enough about dance to know how much Derek is borrowing from/inspired by other dancers, but I do know that rock&roll wouldn't exist if musicians hadn't borrowed from gospel and blues.

I always find Derek's choreography interesting and creative. And while I didn't root for him and Bindi to win, I can't deny that they deserved it, and that he knows how to teach to his partners' strengths.

[Danseur]

Thanks for that Woody Guthrie quote. I've never heard it and I love it.

[Thadeeeyus]

So where was Derek this morning on the first part of GMA? He wasn't on with the other dancers in the first part and only showed up towards the end. We have house guests and it was on mute the whole time, so I don't know if anything was said.

[truthaboutluv]

They said he wasn't feeling well and hadn't slept much the night before so he was resting in the dressing room. 

[BW Manilowe]

He was on The View though. He'd just started answering a question when ABC broke into the show because the President was supposed to make a Homeland Security-related statement, then George Stephanopolous & the White House Correspondent ended up vamping for 10 minutes about what the President was supposed to talk about, & then finally left the air after that because the President wasn't as ready to make his statement as they thought.

So I got pissed because I wanted to see the DWTS segment & the Eastern & Central Time Zones missed the end of it for, literally, nothing--except 10 minutes of talking heads filling time, waiting for the important statement to start (but it didn't). Oh well, I guess there's always YouTube.

[truthaboutluv]

Yeah they taped The View after GMA. He was only not present for the first segment when they spoke to all the finalists and then he came out. I think Derek's also suffering from bronchitis the last two weeks or so, which he and Bindi mentioned in interviews and Derek's blog.

Edited November 25, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Thadeeeyus]

They said he wasn't feeling well and hadn't slept much the night before so he was resting in the dressing room. 

 

Got it, thanks!

[crowceilidh]

I've been through many of the stages with Derek.  I've loathed him with intensity; I've been pretty meh on him; I've been a fan.  In no particular order, although the loathing ate up a solid 5 or 6 years.  I think he's a very good choreographer although he rarely does anything I want to watch on repeat (like some of the dances on SYTYCD).  But I rarely feel the connect between him and his partner.  Bindi was no different.  There's just a wall there between him and most other people.  During the loathing years, he may have connected with a couple of those celebs, but my overall feeling is that he tends not to. 

[treeofdreams]

Just some thoughts on some of the things people keep bringing up regarding Derek...

 

That he uses tricks to hide his celebrities' flaws:  Of course he does, it is his job to make his celebrity look as good as possible.  The other pros should be doing this as well (and some of them are good at it also).

 

That he should take time out so another pro can win:  To me, this is like saying a winning football team should stay out of the Super Bowl because they have already won and they should give another team a chance.  This isn't grade school, where everyone gets a chance or everyone gets a trophy.  These are competitions where you have to earn your victories.

 

Also, DWTS is a job for him.  Would you (hypothetical person) give up your job and your income from it so someone else could have it?  Most of us probably could not afford to do that.

 

That he should be given a celebrity like Paula Deen or others of her dancing ability:  Derek is a very gifted choreographer; giving him someone who has no chance of dancing well would be a complete waste of his talent.  And viewers who tune in to see his talents used to their fullest would be mighty disappointed.  Derek is a large draw for the show; it would not make sense to hobble him with a celebrity like this.

 

Derek is one of the reasons I enjoy DWTS, and he is the one I most look forward to seeing.  Even if the list of celebrities for each season is full of people I don't know or care about, at least I know that Derek and whoever his partner is will be interesting.  If he left the show I would still watch it, but I would really miss him.

[Uke]

But I rarely feel the connect between him and his partner.  Bindi was no different.  There's just a wall there between him and most other people.  During the loathing years, he may have connected with a couple of those celebs, but my overall feeling is that he tends not to. 

 

He's said in various interviews that he tries to avoid getting too emotionally attached to his partners.  Other than Shannon Elizabeth, who he had a personal relationship with, and Maria Menounos who engages Derek and Julianne in corny events like Christmas Dance Wars, he seems to maintain a professional friendship with his partners. He's cordial and takes pics with them at events and such and that's about it.  I think for him it's just a job and he doesn't invest too much into it.  I'm not saying he doesn't care. I'm sure he does in the same way that you and I care about the people you and I work with.

[gohawks]

One of the reasons I don't like Derek, is that he plays to his audience. He gives his fandom what they want and expect. Nene dressed as a wild African woman, Amber stepping, Bindi with her father always present. He is focused on his Stans, not his partner.

Derek has never had a challenge that most of the other male pros could not have handled. And with many of the challenges, Amy or Amber or Bindi, the judges went stupid. Allowing table and hand dancing or praising a lift that was nearly a tragedy. Give him a Chaka or a Cloris or a Diana Nyad. It will never happen and I understand why, but this untruth that he has created miracles out of nearly impossible challenges is BS. Amber came with a fan base, musicality and could hand-dance her ass off. Amy was an Olympic athlete who rarely danced out of hold(except with Mark), Her missing legs were an issue but the truth is she could probably handle physical tasks better than most people with two legs. She was an Olympic athlete who came directly from competition, which meant she was in prime condition. And Bindi of course had the advantage of being a magical gift to humanity from our Creator.Bindis was an OK dancer who clomped around, could not dance out of hold or truly emote. Better than Zendaya, Kristie Yamiguchi, French guy, Maya, Meryl or the "artist" formerly known as Pussy Cat Doll? Please!

Edited November 28, 2015 by gohawks

[Uke]

Just some thoughts on some of the things people keep bringing up regarding Derek...

 

That he uses tricks to hide his celebrities' flaws:  Of course he does, it is his job to make his celebrity look as good as possible.  The other pros should be doing this as well (and some of them are good at it also).

 

That he should take time out so another pro can win:  To me, this is like saying a winning football team should stay out of the Super Bowl because they have already won and they should give another team a chance.  This isn't grade school, where everyone gets a chance or everyone gets a trophy.  These are competitions where you have to earn your victories.

 

Also, DWTS is a job for him.  Would you (hypothetical person) give up your job and your income from it so someone else could have it?  Most of us probably could not afford to do that.

 

That he should be given a celebrity like Paula Deen or others of her dancing ability:  Derek is a very gifted choreographer; giving him someone who has no chance of dancing well would be a complete waste of his talent.  And viewers who tune in to see his talents used to their fullest would be mighty disappointed.  Derek is a large draw for the show; it would not make sense to hobble him with a celebrity like this.

 

Derek is one of the reasons I enjoy DWTS, and he is the one I most look forward to seeing.  Even if the list of celebrities for each season is full of people I don't know or care about, at least I know that Derek and whoever his partner is will be interesting.  If he left the show I would still watch it, but I would really miss him.

 

Yes, he uses tricks to hide his partner's flaws. The other pros do too.  The problem comes when the "hiding" is so completely obvious to us at home and he doesn't get called out like the other pros do. 

 

I agree. He shouldn't take a season off.  He and his partner should just be treated like all the others, praised when they do well, corrected when they do not.

 

Most of the seasoned pros are also very gifted choreographers. Why is giving the other talented pros partners who have no chance of dancing well not a waste of their talent?  Do you think viewers who were excited to see Louis finally return were thrilled that he was paired with Paula and his talents would not be used to the fullest?  We've yet to see what Keo can do.  Why is it ok to "hobble" Karina with Victor or Anna with Gary?  IMO while Derek is busy polishing his collection of MBTs, it's Karina and Anna and Louis and the others who are gaining valuable life and professional experience in learning to handle and succeed with partners the likes of which they probably never met in any dance schools. 

 

For you, Derek is one of the reasons you tune in to DWTS. That's great! Others tune in for Mark or Karina or maybe none of the pros and all of the stars, or Tom or the judges.  That's great too.  

 

And for the umpteenth time, I don't dislike Derek.  He's not an attraction for me and I think he's vastly over-rated.  But it's fine that other people like him.

[gohawks]

Derek has tweeted about healthy eating. Seems to be a new concern for him.

#shady

[truthaboutluv]

Derek was nominated for an Emmy this morning. His three routines were all routines from his season with Bindi - the Grace Kelly foxtrot, Footprints In The Sand, which I assume was the freestyle and I'm not sure which routine was Cry Little Sister is but it might be the contemporary from Memorable Week. 

[kitcloudkicker]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Derek was nominated for an Emmy this morning. His three routines were all routines from his season with Bindi - the Grace Kelly foxtrot, Footprints In The Sand, which I assume was the freestyle and I'm not sure which routine was Cry Little Sister is but it might be the contemporary from Memorable Week. 

Cry Little Sister was the Argentine Tango from Halloween Week (I had to look it up). Watching it again, it made sense, its the one that starts with Bindi coming through that narrow hallway of hands -- the staging of it was really well done. I'm not sure what the Emmy criteria exactly consists of, but if I were considering submissions I'd factor in specifically how the choreographer thought through the dance as it related to the Medium of Television -- and that one was thought through well. (Watching it again you also really notice how heavy Bindi's movement is vs a professional dancer, but thems the show - amature dancers.)

I loooooooved Grace Kelly so I'm glad it got a nod. That's another one where I thought he just staged it brilliantly, from the close-up of Bindi at the beginning with the troupe in the background, through the overhead shots in the middle, to the way the curtain was used in the end, it was so well thought out and fun.

[truthaboutluv]

Yeah I looked it up and saw that it was the Argentine Tango. I honestly forgot about that one and then watching it just made me remember Bindi's really, really awful hair in the dance. But it was a cool number. Yeah I really loved the Grace Kelly number, not least because it was danced to one my favorite songs. 

[Crs97]

Make a Wish released a picture of Derek with an 11-year old girl battling leukemia who wanted to dance with him.  The host said he was wonderful, stayed longer than planned, surpassed all expectations, and made her day.  Nice to hear!

[DancingD]

No real heat unless Maks is judging. Then the gloves are off.

I believe it when Derek says the producers are trying to not give him the ringer. Amber Riley, Bethany Mota, Bindi Irwin, Amy Purdy, Rikki Lake. A couple of times when he DID get the ringer he didn't win, Shawn Johnson and Nastia anyone? Nicole has been a while. He seems at his best with the more challenging partners.

And if anyone thinks Marilu is a ringer, let's bring up a couple of former "seasoned" professional ballerinas. Jane Seymour was a former Kirov ballerina and was 56 when she was on the show. Lea Thompson danced with ABT and was 53. 

[simplyme]

50 minutes ago, DancingD said:

I believe it when Derek says the producers are trying to not give him the ringer. Amber Riley, Bethany Mota, Bindi Irwin, Amy Purdy, Rikki Lake. A couple of times when he DID get the ringer he didn't win, Shawn Johnson and Nastia anyone? Nicole has been a while. He seems at his best with the more challenging partners.

I don't know that I would say "Derek always gets a ringer!" I would say that the worst partners I've seen him get were Bethany Mota and maybe Maria Mewhatsit. That's a pretty high bar. 

To be fair, I can't recall Val or Maks getting someone truly god awful either.

Please note, I haven't watched every single season.

I'm always stumped by people pointing to Amber Riley and Rikki Lake as shock success stories. They both have personality in spades and had prior dance experience. No, I wouldn't call them pros, but I certainly knew they had been exposed to dance and done it competently before DWTS. I think the main reason they get that reaction from some people is their weight. (This just in for those folks: There are large people who can dance too.)

To me it seems fairly obvious that TPTB know that more people watch certain dancers and so they try to keep them on the show longer by giving them more viable stars. (I suppose certain dancers get requested more too.) I can't say I like this, but I understand why they do it. I certainly don't see it from a dancer vs dancer perspective.

Edited August 31, 2016 by simplyme

[Morrigan]

I think Derek is lying. I think he has a lot of say about who his partners are and has stolen more "choice" partners that were originally intended for others, by talking to the producers.  Here's a quote from Tristan MacManus from an interview he did on May 4, 2016:

"I keep in touch with the ones I liked – hahaha. I always look out for everyone and hope that they are doing well and happy with where they are. Just like any job or any environment some people put their goals before their relationships and will pull some David Copperfield tricks to steal your underpants which is cool but it’s not for me."

In another interview, he said that he had been slated for another partner when he got Gladys Knight.  I think that partner was Maria Menounos and I think Derek did not want Tristan to have a sexy partner and used his clout to prevent it (there are other clues I won't go into because each individual one doesn't prove anything, but added together, I think it's clear - to me, anyway.)  Now I know Maria's not a ringer but she's gorgeous and preferable to a 67 year old woman who they shoved out the door, using not only a dance marathon but a dance-off as well to get rid of her instead of Jameel, because he'd gotten a lot of press by being a jerk to Kym... yada yada... and I know a lot of people will disagree with me but I still think I figured that out correctly, after years of digging around, and won't be budged from my opinion :) 

I'm not even saying a "star" should never use his clout to keep his advantage over any potential rivals or that the show didn't do what they thought was best for them, in the long run, by keeping their star happy -- but I still think I'm right about this and it happened.  I would be very surprised if it hadn't happened at other times, as well.  I think Derek is very Machiavellian.  A good trait to have in Hollywood but it won't win you many real friends, I shouldn't imagine.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Morrigan