S30: Shirin Oskooi

[Miss Scarlet]

If one of the Blue Collars wins (other than Sierra) and there is no pay-off for this downfall for the misogynistic asshole story that I'm hoping comes through, I might just be done with Survivor forever. I really hope Shirin can pull it off, but something tells me none of the men on the jury (other than Joe) would vote for her. So I'm not sure how it could happen. 

 

I think Hali is totally right people's problems with Shirin (from xfinity):

 

 

 

Holmes: Shirin is having a tough time out there. What is she doing that annoys people so much?
Ford: I understand that to some extent she did talk a lot. She’s an intelligent person. She seems to lack a social mirror in certain situations. On the other hand, I had no explanation for the level of venom that she elicited from so many people on this show. It blew me away and offended me. That’s why I was so drawn to her. In my mind, it offended my sense of justice because of how people were bullying her. It wasn’t warranted. She wasn’t that bad. Shirin is an intriguing, engaging person. She’s does have a lot of feminist ideas and voices them. Maybe we just have too much chauvinism on there to handle all of that.

And of course I loved Shirin's answer from that interview with Dalton about men criticizing the women doing the work, as the men stand there and do nothing. I wish they would let her have a confessional like that on the show, but I don't think they would include such an accurate assessment of sexism on Survivor. 

[LanceM]

I am like 99% sure Mike is going to win, but I can't help but shake the feeling that, as inconceivable as it really seems, Shirin might win. I'm probably just holding onto false hope to get me through this wretched season though.

That would be great and it seems she already has one vote in the jury as I can totally see Hali voting for her based on her comments in the exit interviews today.

[riley702]

That made me like Hali more.

[ProfCrash]

I am wondering if Shirin and Dan are playing a similar strategy, play the role of the goat and then at final tribal fully own being an intentional goat. Lay out exactly how you annoyed people in order to make sure that people thought you could not get any votes and yet here you sit with a shot at the money. And in, the process you didn't stab anyone in the back and you didn't break confidences.

[riley702]

I'm not sure either are self-aware enough of being annoying to make it a strategy.

[peachmangosteen]

I love the Hali/Jenn/Shirin friendship. I wish it had developed more on the show and/or been shown more. One thing to look forward to about the likely Pagonging of Jenn/Joe/Shirin is the Ponderosa vids of them!

Edited April 10, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[SlackerInc]

If one of the Blue Collars wins (other than Sierra) and there is no pay-off for this downfall for the misogynistic asshole story that I'm hoping comes through, I might just be done with Survivor forever. I really hope Shirin can pull it off, but something tells me none of the men on the jury (other than Joe) would vote for her. So I'm not sure how it could happen. 

 

I've been trying to game out any possible path for my beloved Shirin to win, and I think I've come up with one longshot possibility, though it is a scary one: she teams up with Rodney and Dan to go to F3. It's one of the rare scenarios that's in all three of their interests, because none of them (IMO) has any chance whatsoever of winning except in this exact configuration. So all three would see the other two as goats. Of course, this risks the possibility of the odious Dan or Rodney winning; but I think they'd split the "dude" faction and Shirin would have a good shot.  Better than in any other scenario anyway.

[Lantern7]

Shirin, if you're reading this (not counting on it, but fingers crossed), know that you have at least one person on your side. Why? Because she wants to have fun. Because she's goofy enough to commune with the howler monkeys. Because there's no one left to root for. Because the biggest assholes have targeted her. It might be cool to see her eviscerate her tormentors on Day 39, but I'm not counting on it. I'm 99 percent on the Shirin train. Running around bottomless was weird, but it's not a dealbreaker.

[CletusMusashi]

I've been trying to game out any possible path for my beloved Shirin to win, and I think I've come up with one longshot possibility, though it is a scary one: she teams up with Rodney and Dan to go to F3. It's one of the rare scenarios that's in all three of their interests, because none of them (IMO) has any chance whatsoever of winning except in this exact configuration. So all three would see the other two as goats. Of course, this risks the possibility of the odious Dan or Rodney winning; but I think they'd split the "dude" faction and Shirin would have a good shot.  Better than in any other scenario anyway.

I love this idea! Maybe she flies under the radar for a while because Mike gets voted out and nobody sees her as a threat, so they keep on infighting and picking at each other... it's a long shot, but it could happen! In that case, she could easily have votes from Jenn, Hali, Joe, and Mike. Meanwhile, Will, Tyler and Caroline would vote for whichever man pissed them off less, and Sierra would vote for whichever man used "Shut up and vote for me, you stupid bitch" as his jury speech. What happens if it's a draw, though? Please let the tie breaker be a spelling puzzle!

[CletusMusashi]

Best thing about a Shirin victory would be that Jeff would finally quit.

[Jersey Guy 87]

I thought Will was over the top in his attacks on Shirin but he was retaliating for Shirin (and others) claiming he was hoarding food based on nothing whatsoever.  She attacked his character, he attacked back.

[Jal]

We'll have to assume that what they showed us is most of what they actually said and did.

 

With this assumption, there is no way accusing Will of hoarding food is the same as all the insults and personal attacks he threw at Shirin. And this bullying has been going on for some time now. I understand how Will could've been upset, but there's a way to talk to people about it. Show the empty box or don't, and speak to everyone about how you're being 100% truthful. That's all you can do if you want to be a civil person and perhaps don't want to show your true colours. Will was clearly very sad about not getting his family letter, and he chose to attack Shirin as a way to relieve some of that stress. He didn't even speak to the other two people who were talking about it with her.

 

With all these attacks against Shirin for being herself (and not really to the point of extreme annoyance), I want her to get back at them by winning.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Jal

[Trixie Belden]

Shirin has been the whipping boy for EVERYONE this entire season, and frankly, it's disgusting.  I get that being there is stressful, you're tired and hungry and paranoid, but come on!  Last week in Dan's TH he said he wanted someone to slap her, this week Will (who I actually liked until last night) didn't keep it at gameplay, he knew what he was saying was cruel and had nothing to do with the game, but he wanted to crush her.  I really wish Shirin could read this, because honey, I would LOVE to be your friend.  You're quirky, funny, super intelligent and have great hair.  Please come hang out by my pool with me and drink margaritas.  You keep doing you, ok?

[Miss Scarlet]

I thought Will was over the top in his attacks on Shirin but he was retaliating for Shirin (and others) claiming he was hoarding food based on nothing whatsoever.  She attacked his character, he attacked back.

Except that, based on what we were shown, it was Jenn and Mike who were the ones that said Will was being dishonest. Shirin might have agreed with them, but Jenn started that line of thought and was the most outspoken about it. The way Will chose to handle it was a) disgusting, cruel and unethical for the content of what he said (not to mention how illogical everything he said was) and b) he chose to attack Shirin because she was an easier target than Jenn and Mike. It made me livid.

Edited April 23, 2015 by wudpixie

[Lantern7]

Shirin goes for broke on Twitter. Or does she just go broke?

 

I hope there's a happy ending with her . . . but with the dullards surrounding her, I'm not putting any money on that.

[SlackerInc]

It is sickening, appalling, and frightening how this seems to happen on Survivor.  It's a real-world view of a kind of "Lord of the Flies" mentality.  Who was it a few seasons ago, an Asian-American woman, who was similarly targeted?  She wasn't as "quirky, funny, super intelligent" (love that!) as Shirin, but she seemed to be a perfectly decent person who just got tagged as an omega somehow and was relentlessly bullied.

[jsm1125]

It is sickening, appalling, and frightening how this seems to happen on Survivor.  It's a real-world view of a kind of "Lord of the Flies" mentality.  Who was it a few seasons ago, an Asian-American woman, who was similarly targeted?  She wasn't as "quirky, funny, super intelligent" (love that!) as Shirin, but she seemed to be a perfectly decent person who just got tagged as an omega somehow and was relentlessly bullied.

You may be thinking of Christina from One World. I don't even think that Alicia or Colton (the two biggest bullies from that season) themselves know why they were so relentless with her.

[Jersey Guy 87]

Shirin goes for broke on Twitter. Or does she just go broke?

 

I hope there's a happy ending with her . . . but with the dullards surrounding her, I'm not putting any money on that.

 

Apparently she wins, then, because otherwise she couldn't afford it.  Rodney alone could cost her more than a new car in a single episode.

[ljenkins782]

I am wondering if Shirin and Dan are playing a similar strategy, play the role of the goat and then at final tribal fully own being an intentional goat. Lay out exactly how you annoyed people in order to make sure that people thought you could not get any votes and yet here you sit with a shot at the money. And in, the process you didn't stab anyone in the back and you didn't break confidences.

 

Can't speak for Dan because I hate him enough to not want to bother dissecting his possible motives, but as for Shirin, I don't believe she's able to hide her true self enough to be playing a role. 

 

She just gets SO excited every time she sees some perceived opportunity that it can't be fake (for example, when she thought she'd swung Kelly to the WC side after the tribal shake-up.) I think she's such a fan of the game that experiencing those little Survivor hallmark moments get her so pumped up that she might forget that she's playing OR she's just not able to capitalize on them based on her poor position in the tribe. 

 

If she could somehow last to the end and is sitting next to Dan, Rodney, Will, or Carolyn; she'll have the 3 no-collars locked down but not sure if she'll get anybody else. And I'm almost afraid to see that FTC, I'm sure she'll get shredded again by at least 2 or more people.

Edited April 24, 2015 by ljenkins782

[marys1000]

While I agree that Will's comments are awful that doesn't automatically make me put Shirin on some sort of pedestal.  It just means Will's comments were awful. 

  No blaming the victim, but if you're going to judge, better  judge everyone.  Being a victim of domestic violence doesn't mean you are automatically a perfect person.

 

There are some intimations out there that Shirin had made snarky comments about Will's weight multiple times.  I have not watched all the secret scenes but I seem to remember her making a comment or two about.......how much room he took in the shelter?  IDK. 

 

I don't trust the editing enough to hate on anyone or canonize anyone.  And a bad moment or two does not reflect the whole person.  Honestly with the editing of the season I wonder who would want to be on Survivor?  You have no idea how totally unlike yourself you might be portrayed.

 

If she is as annoying as she seems to be, plus if part of that hyper verbal diarehha includes personal snark, that could explain why no one moved a muscle during Will's diatribe.  That and everyone is playing an under the radar game which is soooo booorring maybe the editors had no choice but to edit villans and drama. 

[ProfCrash]

Shirin is not perfect. She has made some comments about Will and his weight. She does poke at people, we saw that with Joaquin. I can see that she might poke at Will or other people who find her annoying. I am not certain why she likes to poke at folks, just like I never understood Kass and her attempts at causing chaos. That strategy doesn't really work. If you get brought to the end as a goat, I am not sure that you can turn it into votes to win the money. So why poke at people when they have made it clear that they find you annoying?

 

That said, no matter what she has said or done doesn't mean that Will's comments are appropriate. I want to believe that the editors would show us comments that Shirin was making that were the equivalent of Will's statements or Dan's statements. There really was no reason to show us Shirin poking at Joaquin back in the second or third episode when everyone was hunting for the idol. Joaquin was going to be leaving soon and Shirin had nothing to do with his departure. So why show it? TO show some of Shirin's annoying behavior. Same for the monkey sex conversations. Those show her as being quirky, annoying, and willing to poke. They did show her making the comment about Will's weight. So if they are going to show that, why wouldn't they show Shirin making similarly nasty remarks to Will's when all that went down?

 

I am sure we will hear more as time goes on but I have more faith in what we have heard from Jenn, Hali, and Joe. Shirin could be annoying but they don't understand the level of anger and hatred directed toward her. So either she was really, really awful on the White Collar tribe and then awful to Will when Jenn, Hali, and Joe were not around so they didn't see her at her worst or she was really annoying and became an outcast with the the main alliance and then there was a gang mentality that makes her out to be worse in their minds then she really was.

[marys1000]

No one is saying that there is a reason for being verbally attacked.  But at the same time talking smack about someone's weight is also a form of bullying.  I don't see why she gets a pass for that. 

[momlyd]

If there is footage of Shirin saying something explicitly nasty and hurtful about Will's weight, then shame on her. To my knowledge, there is not.

Edited April 27, 2015 by momlyd

[ProfCrash]

She doesn't get a pass for her negative words. Where did I say that she did? We did not hear her comment on Will's weight during that exchange with Will. People have speculated that she did but we have not seen footage of it. We did see a talking head where she commented on making room in the shelter by voting Will out. At least, I think it was a talking head, I don't rewatch so I don't remember.

 

I do object to people who are trying to justify Will's bad behavior for theoretical words that we have not seen. You can say that multiple people behaved poorly and one person behaved the worst. Two wrongs don't make a right. If Shirin called Will a fat fuck to his face, and we did not see it, then Shirin was wrong. Will was still wrong for for telling her she had no family that loved her, no one in the United States who loved her, and that she was soulless. I seriously doubt that the Producers would cut out Shirin berating Will over his weight during that fight or at other times. Based on what we have seen from the fights with Mike vs Lindsey/Sierra, Dan and Rodney vs Sierra, Dan vs Shirin, Shirin vs Joaquin, and now Shirin vs Will, the Producers would love to show us Shirin making nasty comments about Will. THe Producers would crap their pants to have one more person making awful statements about other people.

 

From what I saw, Shirin did not bait Will. Tyler told Will that Shirin, Mike, and Jenn were suggesting that Will did not share all of the food. Will went off on Shirin and made a series of personal attacks. I did not see Shirin start the discussion with a verbal assault on Will's weight or religion. I did not see Shirin mention Will's weight at all in the diatribe. I did see Shirin comment on Will's  praying and being a man of god after he had just spent however long telling Shirin that she was unloved in the game and in real life and that she had no soul.

 

If Shirin was abusive towards will or bullied Will, I think we would have heard about it from Jenn, Hali, or Joe. None of them strike me as people who would cover up bad blood. Instead all three said they have no idea why Shirin received as much crap as she did. Obviously we have seen talking heads from them saying that Shirin was annoying on the show and that she talked too much but their exit interviews show the three of them as being puzzled by all of the Shirin animosity.

 

One explanation is that Shirin was bullying Will, Dan, Rodney, Sierra, Caroyln, and Tyler but never around Joe, Hali, and Jenn and Production decided not to show Shirin being a massive bully. A second possibility is that the majority alliance decided that Shirin is annoying and a sort of mob mentality took over and we are seeing the end outcome of that. A third possibility is that Shirin was annoying and that Will, Dan, and Rodney really are not very nice people and the portrayal we are seeing shows a very real side of them.

 

But by all means, let's jump on the one moment that Shirin made a comment about Will's weight and assume that she started the entire brush up and that was covered up by Production.

[ElleryAnne]

talking smack about someone's weight is also a form of bullying.  I don't see why she gets a pass for that.

 

 

I don't think she's getting a pass for that.  There have been several posts in various threads that speculate on her doing that, and I don't think anyone's defending it if she did.  But it's a matter of degree, and Will went so far beyond in his tirade that the result is to make Shirin seem more sympathetic in comparison.  Will set a new standard in bad behavior, and under that standard any fat-shaming comments Shirin made (if they occurred) barely register.  

Edited April 27, 2015 by ElleryAnne

[scowl]

I would have been happy if Will's bullying had been limited to Shirin's "form of bullying", a snide comment to the camera after voting. I doubt that brought Will to tears when he saw it months after she said it.

[marys1000]

This sort of mob behavior mentioned above can work in reverse and frankly its unpredictable. It bothers me whichever way it works.  I don't want to pile on anyone based on editing, even someone I feel pretty sure I wouldn't like in real life.  So some discussion to create some objectivity here. 

 

If someone  (hypothetically) kicks the back of your airline seat repeatedly on a 24 hr flight to Australia and does nothing but grin when you ask them to stop.....Is it right for you to go off on them verbally and call them all sorts of names and tell them that their mother smells of elderberries?  No.  Two rights don't make a wrong.  At this point though the entire plane jumps in and sticks up for the victim of your abuse because the persons mother actually was an elderberryholic and the grinning is just part of their coping disorder and your complaints about 24 hours of  chair kicking are cast aside as unimportant. 

 

This is the mob psychology you are talking about in reverse and I think there is some of that going on here. People are now loving Shirin because she somehow manages to get people to be mean to her. 

 

Let me be clear, Shirin didn't deserve the comments. 

 

But everyone is jumping on her band wagon in this big defensive poor thing mob.  But I don't think Shirin is some poor thing.  If Nina was a vicitim because she couldn't hear people then I don't get how Shirin isn't getting a victim response? 

 

If she made any snarky comments about Will and his size then I think she ought to apologize.  (Yes Will should too but we are talking about Shirin here)

 

I don't know if Shirin made weight comments or other comments.  But clearly she got under Will's skin.  Even Jenn doesn't understand Will's behavior.  Members of her orginal tribe clearly thought she was annoying.   

These are from the reality blogger Holmes post boot interviews.  For some reason he missed Shirin for Hali but the quotes where Hali talks about Shirin are from that interview, so she is not represented below, but we know that if anyone is going to like everyone regardless its Hali. 

 

Regardless of what's going on there - which I don't think we can really know - Shirin been pretty bad in challenges (has she been worse than Cochran?)  and her strategic game has been mediocre as has been her social game.  Just because someone was verbally abusive doesn't mean she deserves to win.  The fact that she hasn't been voted out yet seems more a compilation of chance events and the fact that she is not perceived a threat.   I don't think she deserves to be final 3.

 

Joe's one word associations

Holmes: Word association time. Let’s start with Tyler.
Anglim: Quiet.
Holmes: Mike?
Anglim: Loud.
Holmes: Vince?
Anglim: Intense.
Holmes: Hali?
Anglim: Gorgeous.
Holmes: Jenn?
Anglim: Mmm…goofy.
Holmes: Shirin?
Anglim: Super fan.
Holmes: Dan?
Anglim: Greatest story ever told.
Holmes: Will?
Anglim: Papa bear.
Holmes:  Carolyn?
Anglim: Mama C.
Holmes: Sierra?
Anglim: Absolutely.
Holmes: Let’s finish with Rodney.
Anglim: Little (expletive deleted). (Laughs)

 

Kelly's word associations

Holmes: Alright, word association time. We’ll start with Mike.
Remington: My rock.
Holmes: Rodney?
Remington: He’s a beast at challenges…strong personality.
Holmes: Joe?
Remington: Good-looking, cute mama’s boy.
Holmes: Hali?
Remington: Space cadet.
Holmes: Jenn?
Remington: Doesn’t really care about anything.
Holmes: Shirin?
Remington: She’s another wingnut.
Holmes: Carolyn?
Remington: Strong.
Holmes: Tyler?
Remington: He’s a thinker.
Holmes: Dan?
Remington: He’s over the top.
Holmes: Sierra?
Remington: Like a lightning bolt.
Holmes: Let’s finish with Will.
Remington: Laid back.

 

Jenn has no quotes because she just swore instead.  

 

 

Joaquin's

Holmes: Alright, word association time. Let’s start with So.
Souberbielle: Amazing, beautiful, smart, athletic, loyal.
Holmes: Tyler?
Souberbielle: Pretty (laughs), super cool, down to Earth, realist.
Holmes: Mike?
Souberbielle: The guy’s a lover. He’s enthusiastic. A smart guy. Great gameplay.
Holmes: Shirin?
Souberbielle: Cancerous, cynical, annoying, psychotic, delusional.
Holmes: Rodney?
Souberbielle: Hilarious, a clown, he’s a good person at the end of the day.
Holmes:  Joe?
Souberbielle: Ah…cool. I don’t even know. I barely spent any time with Joe. (Expletive deleted), Joe.
Holmes: (Laughs) Dan?
Souberbielle: Dan is annoying, repetitive, beyond enthusiastic. Everything he says is the greatest story ever.
Holmes: Sierra?
Souberbielle: Very smart. Loving, amazing, she’s a very strong woman.
Holmes: Max?
Souberbielle: Max is smart, narcissistic, delusional.
Holmes: Carolyn?
Souberbielle: Warm, loving, nurturer, extremely intelligent.

 

So's word associations

Holmes: OK, word association time. Let’s start with Shirin.
Kim: Delusional schizophrenic…oh, that’s so awful.
Holmes: Too late. Joaquin?
Kim: Loyal to a fault.
Holmes: Carolyn?
Kim: The funniest woman I’ve ever met.
Holmes: Tyler?
Kim: A politician to the core.
Holmes: Max?
Kim: Max is a bit sociopathic.
Holmes: And let’s finish with Malcolm.
Kim: (Laughs)
Holmes: He told me to do this.
Kim: (Laughs) Malcolm is my guy. He’s great. You know what? I may have been the first one voted out. But I ultimately won because I got to meet a great guy like Malcolm.
Holmes: I told him this interview was going to be tough because I’d be so jealous of you.
Kim: (Laughs) Aww…he’s the best.

[Jobiska]

But everyone is jumping on her band wagon in this big defensive poor thing mob.  But I don't think Shirin is some poor thing.  If Nina was a vicitim because she couldn't hear people then I don't get how Shirin isn't getting a victim response?

 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, but I think you are saying that Nina was criticized for playing the victim, yet people are sympathizing with Shirin as a victim.  But that's just it.  Nina did, at least to some extent, play the victim even where it was unwarranted (perhaps sometimes it was, but she leapt to that conclusion even when it wasn't, and that's what people were calling out).  Shirin is not playing the victim on our screens.  She was a victim of Will's attack, and yes, she did break down at Tribal, but I saw that as more explaining her reaction and calling out what she saw as below-the-belt claims by Will.  She has not moped around the entire time out there saying "poor me, everybody hates me."  In fact until now she's been a mite too oblivious to their scorn because her main emotion has been excitement to be there and she's gone too far in that direction.  That is the total opposite of how Nina presented out there!

Yes, a lot of us see the treatment and sympathize with Shirin and do think it would be nice if she by some miracle ended up winning, but that's only partly because of how she was treated by Will--there are also not a lot of other appealing candidates for the win.  If you're going by gameplay, from what we've seen, maybe Mike (with some big mistakes, but if he recovers then that's good gameplay), maybe Rodney (despite personality, he's pulling together some disparate people, etc.), maybe Tyler if more of his moves bubble to the surface beyond his tattling prowess.  

If tattling is a good move and worth of being final three, why isn't hanging on by the skin of your teeth through sheer love of the game despite not having social skills?  If people are rooting for Shirin, it could be they see positive things like that, instead of just feeling sorry for her and wanting to reward her because of that.  Frankly, I don't think Shirin would appreciate that.

Oh, and none of the people you quoted in the word association said anything close to "victim" for Shirin.  Many of them think she's crazy , but they didn't say "victim."

Edited April 28, 2015 by Jobiska

[peachmangosteen]

Great post, Jobiska, and I completely agree with all of it.

 

And honestly, IMO, Shirin's strategic game isn't terrible. It's decent. Her challenge game sucks, but I have never cared about that anyway so meh. Her social game is atrocious, but then so is everyone else's, so it hardly matters. 

 

Based on what we're seeing through the edit, I think Rodney is playing the best game. Mike is playing well, but has made a lot of really bad mistakes. Tyler is playing so far UTR that I can't tell if he's actually playing that purposefully or if he's just boring and coat-tail ridey. Carolyn same as Tyler, but I have a feeling she's actually playing the social game better than Tyler. Dan and Sierra have no case for winning. Shirin is 3rd on the list as far as good game players go IMO, or at the very least tied with Tyler/Carolyn for 3rd.

Edited April 28, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

Shirin has annoyed a lot of people. We have known that from the talking heads and the number of people who told her to her face, Carolyn, Hali, Dan, Will come to mind. What has she done to annoy folks is less clear. It sure seems like Shirin and Max consistent discussion of Survivor and Survivor history annoyed the White Collar tribe and their merged tribe. Dan has commented sarcastically on Shirin's knowledge of the game and has jumped in several times to call himself a super fan when people have called Shirin a super fan.

 

We have not seen any talking heads were people have complained about Shirin being judgmental, a feminist on a mission, a racist, or really any negative connotation. Just annoying and that she talks to much. We have not seen her engaged in attacking people or making inappropriate comments other then the one comment about Will's weight in, I believe a talking head.

 

Joaquin and So were annoyed that she outlasted them and she annoyed them. Joaquin also referred to Sierra as a nice piece of ass in his exit interview with Rob Has A Podcast and did not exactly come off as the most, shall we say, enlightened man. That said, we saw were Shirin confronted Joaquin and asked him why he didn't like her and say that she was trying to get under his skin. Kelly thought Shirin was annoying but was willing to work with Max and Shirin up until Carolyn said that she was flipping.

 

So the people left in the game who dislike Shirin are Rodney, who has said in talking heads he would fight Mike and Dan over comments that the two made and who has a hair line trigger and over the top outbursts. Rodney who made some pretty bad statements to Lindsey. Rodney who was willing to pile on Sierra after Lindsey was voted out. Rodney who is apparently so bad that Dan told Mike that he couldn't let someone as awful as Rodney win the game.

 

Dan: Dan who pissed off Rodney (ok, not hard to do). Dan who happily jumped in on Sierra and told her how awful she was playing and why she sucked at the game. Dan who's apology to Sierra was so awful that it was cringeworthy. Dan who told Sierra to shut up and listen. Dan who sat and told Shirin how awful her game was and how awful she was in the game and then in a talking head suggested someone needed to slap Shirin to shut her up. Now, I don't think Dan meant it literally and I don't think Dan was going to hit Shirin or that Dan thought that it would be great if anyone hit Shirin. I do think that Dan has had plenty of dust ups with others and is being brought along as a goat and not exactly a great judge of character.

 

Will. This one came out of the blue on the show but Will was so far out of line it was insane.

 

Carolyn: We have seen hardly anything from Carolyn except for her telling Shirin that she was annoying and then talking heads about how much she dislikes Shirin.

 

So, yeah, Shirin is annoying but the people who are speaking so openly about hating her in interviews mainly point to her being annoying and are not saying that she was a hateful person. The people who hate her left in the game are not particularly nice people. We have seen her talking with Mike and the two seem to get along ok. Tyler has commented that Shirin is annoying but we have seen the two talk game in a pretty respectful manner.

 

Honestly, I don't think there is anyone I want to see win this season. We have a bunch of assholes, under the radar players, and socially inept folks. Mike blew up his game, actually I think he just confirmed what everyone knew which is that he was on the bottom of the alliance of seven. I can see a final tribal council filled with goats in any other season. That is just bad.

 

But I simply don't buy that Shirin has received a positive edit from the Producers or that the Producers are hiding particularly bad behavior on her part. We would have heard if Shirin was acting far worse from Joe, Hali, and Jenn. All that we are getting from them is that she talks to much and is too excited about playing.

[peachmangosteen]

I do think that Hali's spec that it might have been Shirin's feminist ideas that really riled people up is right. Especially people like Rodney, Dan, Joaquin, Kelly, and Carolyn. And I'd add Tyler, but I seem to be the only one that gets a sexist vibe from him so maybe I'm being irrational.

 

But I simply don't buy that Shirin has received a positive edit from the Producers or that the Producers are hiding particularly bad behavior on her part. We would have heard if Shirin was acting far worse from Joe, Hali, and Jenn. All that we are getting from them is that she talks to much and is too excited about playing.

 

This. I mean I can believe Shirin is more annoying that they've really shown, but I don't believe there's footage of her calling Dan and Will fat pigs that they just left on the cutting room floor. It just doesn't track to me.

Edited April 28, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[marys1000]

Jenn wanted to vote her out based solely on how annoying she was.  .  Hali was annoyed enough but wanted to keep her for numbers bad enough that she told her how annoying she was. 

 

I'm not saying Shirin is terrible or deserves abuse but she can't seem to come up with a social game which tells me something.   I think all the Will and Dan name calling is just ganging up and mob behavior as well. I do not want to participate in that based on editing, yes, editing.  I think its real.   These guys are just guys.  The same guys I work with everyday that cut women off in meetings and do other borderline douche stuff everyday.  Guys that in Wills case stepped over the line like everybody here probably has and guys like Dan who always have to chime in and be the expert on everything and has no clue how buffoonish he seems. I know a ton of Dan's. I don't particularly care to spend to much time with the Dan type but they tend to be pretty harmless.   Dan who has a lot of hometown support for being a good guy based on his actions.    Jenn said that Rodney was a little misogynist but he was just a dude like lots of other duds.  Exactly.

To go on and on and on about Will and Dan and poor Shirin and Sierra is just the same ganging up mob behavior that is being complained about. 

 

A website talking about a  Jenn interview:

 

As to Will’s horrific tirade in this week’s episode, Jenn said:

 

“I cannot for the life of me figure out why that happened or what caused it. The way he acted toward Shirin? You didn’t even see a third of it. He was just screaming at her, saying horrible things. Same thing to Mike. He yelled at Mike, too. All three of us did the same exact thing that caused this blowup.”

 

(The website continue's)  "The last sentence is interesting because she’s not only blaming the blow-up on herself and Mike, but also on Shirin. That’s notable because, as I pointed out in my recap, the edited episode did not include Shirin saying anything about Will or accusing him of hoarding his reward. Only Jenn and Mike were shown saying that, though Tyler later told Will that it was Shirin who was making the accusations."

 

There is some sneaky editing here. 

 

In Sierra's secret scene about this event she says "Shirin said Will had an icebox of food"  So Shirin told Sierra and whoever was sitting there at the time?  That's not the way editing made it look.  People make it sound like Will blamed Shirin for something she didn't even say.    Was Will there?  Did he even know about Mike and Jenn at the time?   Sierra also said that Mike came in to break it up and talks like like theyelling went on after Shirin got up and made the man of God comment that the fight went on after that 'they both just kept yelling at each other'.   In one interview Jenn says  "you didn't see a third of it" but in another interview she clearly says she wasn't there - so her comment is based on what Shirin then Mike's accounts.  Sierra's comments  alludes to Shirin fighting back with more words than we saw.  And I hope so, Shirin is a smart, very verbal:)  grown ass adult and can stick up for herself. 

 

So....how much editing is there?  Looks like Shirin is getting a victim edit to me and personally I don't think she has done anything to dissuade that.    

 

I wonder if  Shirin will be brought back on for her own season just to win like Cochran. 

 

Honestly I'm so suspicious of the editing I wonder why I even participate in Survivor anymore vs. watching it as some totally fictitious unbelievable meaningless reality crap with absolute zero creditability to being an actual outwit outplay outlast competition. 

[fishcakes]

People make it sound like Will blamed Shirin for something she didn't even say.    Was Will there?  Did he even know about Mike and Jenn at the time?  

 

I don't think anyone here is saying Shirin didn't say that Will was hiding food; based on what Sierra and Tyler said during the episode and what Jenn has said in interviews, it's clear that she did. All anyone is saying is that suggesting that Will is hiding food is a legitimate game strategy to sow distrust about Will with his allies and that she wasn't the only person who did it. Not only is she not the only one who did it in this instance, since Mike and Jenn were also behind it, but it's something other players have done both in this season and in past seasons.

 

Will did know about Mike and Jenn because we heard Tyler tell him. Tyler told him people were saying he was hiding food. Will said, "who's saying that? Shirin?" Tyler said, "Shirin and Mike and Jenn." It's clear to me that Will was just itching for a chance to go after Shirin. That had nothing to do with her speculation about the food -- he even made a point of going to Jenn and saying he didn't care that she accused him of hiding food; that was all about him not liking Shirin and wanting to humiliate her just for the LOLs, not just at the camp but also at Tribal Council. That's what his whole, "best tribal council evah" and "bring the popcorn" comments to Jeff were about as soon as the IC was over and Jeff brought up the tension between Will and Shirin. Will was already salivating over the idea of going after her again, but this time with the entire tribe present.

 

He used the speculation about the food as an excuse to take a chunk out of someone he didn't like, not once but twice, and he hyped it on his twitter the day of the episode as being great entertainment. If he's facing backlash over this now, too bad. I'm not exactly going to break out my violin for him.

Edited April 28, 2015 by fishcakes

[scowl]

As I said earlier in the thread, anyone who bursts out the Star Spangled Banner unprompted is asking to get voted off. Since she is a fan of the show I can't imagine what the hell she was thinking. I'm sure she's a sweet and interesting person but she discovered that her behavior irritated other contestants way too late. She did have a "I have to adapt to them" revelation but she should have used Rudy's famous strategy the minute the game started.

[ElleryAnne]

I think all the Will and Dan name calling is just ganging up and mob behavior as well.

 

 

IDK, I wouldn't call discussion of someone's behavior on a tv show "mob behavior" simply because the majority of commenters are in agreement that the behavior was vile.  If Will's behavior evoked similar visceral reactions in a number of people and earned the disdain of a lot of viewers, all of whom watched the show separately from their own homes, then it is what it is.  

 

 

So....how much editing is there?  Looks like Shirin is getting a victim edit to me and personally I don't think she has done anything to dissuade that.

 

 

Well, I agree that editing is always suspect.  I don't think Shirin's been getting a victim edit in general this season (she's been shown as annoying and even off-putting, neither of which nurtures the kind of sympathy in viewers that I'd expect in a victim edit), but I guess the next couple of episodes will tell that tale.  In the incident with Will, she was a victim, but I don't think she was trying to come across as one.  If anything, her sarcastic remarks like "Oh, and he prays before each meal!" were her way to assert herself and strike back against him.  And later, we saw that she raised her hand and kept Will from getting his letter from home which I don't think fits a victim edit, either.  She gave a decent game-related reason for denying him the letter, but she could have been seen as getting revenge on him - and neither option seems to fit a victim mentality or plays into a victim edit.  Clearly she was genuinely shaken by Will's words, but even at tribal it didn't seem as if she was deliberating trying to cry for sympathy - just the opposite.  She explained why her reaction was so emotional, but seemed to be trying to keep her emotions under control.  So I'm not sure what she's supposed to do to dissuade anyone from thinking she's a victim.

 

If anything, I think she's getting the "scrappy underdog" edit.

Edited April 28, 2015 by ElleryAnne

[Trixie Belden]

 

In Sierra's secret scene about this event she says "Shirin said Will had an icebox of food"  So Shirin told Sierra and whoever was sitting there at the time?  

 

 

Here's the thing, Will DID have an ice chest full of food.  He DID eat some before the rest of them got back to camp.  He didn't disclose either of those things, so semantically, Shirin and co. told the truth. He had an ice chest holding food and he ate some of it without telling them.  I don't fault him for eating, I think he should've kept it hidden and for himself, actually. I don't think he thought anymore about the ice chest and didn't think anyone would even see it, let alone guess it's capacity and compare it to the food he showed them   It would only make sense to assume that there was more in the ice chest than what Will told them, based on the size of the chest and the size of the containers of food.  The fact that he lost his mind on Shirin and ONLY Shirin, telling Jenn later that he didn't care if she said anything, proves that this wasn't about what was said, it was who said it.  During TC he said that Shirin accused him of stealing.  Stealing what?  I never heard anyone say anything about stealing.

[ProfCrash]

As I said earlier in the thread, anyone who bursts out the Star Spangled Banner unprompted is asking to get voted off. Since she is a fan of the show I can't imagine what the hell she was thinking. I'm sure she's a sweet and interesting person but she discovered that her behavior irritated other contestants way too late. She did have a "I have to adapt to them" revelation but she should have used Rudy's famous strategy the minute the game started.

She has played a very bad social game and she has not been a challenge beast. I don't think she has played a good game at all. The weird thing is that I think she has a shot at winning. I think that she has Joe, Hali, and Jenn's vote if she makes it to final tribal. It took Hali about a day or two to figure out that Shirin did not flip on them and that Shirin was loyal to them. I think all three actually respect that Shirin is a Super Fan and that she is happy to be playing because she loves the game. I think that all three are surprised by how poorly she has been treated in camp by the majority alliance. Hali has flat out said she automatically looks to work with and help the underdog. Jenn was very upset with how Shirin was treated after the foodgate and has said her whole "These people suck" rant is because of the fight and directed at all the people who said nothing to try and stop the personal attacks. I think Joe likes Shirin. All three seem to be able to look past how annoying she was when they first met her and see her in a different light. I don't think any of the three of them will look past the ugly behavior, and I think there has been more then we have been shown, and will be willing to vote for a Dan, Rodney, Will. So I think Shirin has their votes at final tribal.

 

I think Shirin has Mike's vote if he is on the jury. Part of his pitch to Dan was that Dan had said that they cannot let Rodney win because of his behavior and his attitudes. I think Mike will see a Dan flip as being a violation of their alliance. Mike was willing to talk to Shirin and try and work with Shirin. He was shown comforting her after the fight with Will. Given that Mike has stood up for Shirin and Sierra when Rodney, Dan, or Will was in their face, I think he would be willing to vote for Shirin because he won't vote for bullies.

 

That is four votes right there. If Shirin is sitting between Dan and Rodney, I think she has Sierra's vote because Sierra has been pretty clear that she dislikes Dan and Rodney. I don't think that she would vote for either of them.

 

Seriously, the only votes I think we can guarantee that she doesn't have are Rodney, Will, Dan, and Carolyn's. If one or two of those folks end up in the final three, that works to Shirin's favor.

 

So Shirin could have played one of the worst games of Survivor, awful social play, no real strategic moves, no immunity wins (that we have seen yet) and she can win.

 

That says something about the season and I don't think it is anything positive.

[Jersey Guy 87]

I think Shirin has Joe, Hali and Jenn's votes because she's not been a vile person.  With this cast, that may be all it takes.

[kikaha]

I think Shirin has Joe, Hali and Jenn's votes because she's not been a vile person

 

May depend on who sits next to her.  e.g. Jenn talked about how Rodney was funny, a pretty good guy, and running things.  Hali also complimented Rodney and his game, and said she could vote for him IIRC.  I could easily see those two votes NOT going Shirin's way.  No idea how Joe feels about Rodney. 

 

In any case, I expect this to be a moot point, probably real soon now. 

[BigRedCheese]

It might be moot soon, then again, that awesome man of God, Will, told Rodney he wanted to keep her around so that he could make her suffer.

[ProfCrash]

I think that was when deciding between Jenn and Shirin. If Mike doesn't win immunity this week, I suspect that Mike will go before Shirin goes.

 

I can honestly see a scenario where people decide to keep Shirin in the game because they see her as such a goat that they cannot lose against her.

 

Here is where I am conflicted with Shirin. In many ways she reminds me of Kass. Some of her behavior has been intentional and has been done to rile folks up. Max specifically states that he encouraged Shirin to poke at Joaquin because he though, and Shirin agreed, that showing how awful Joaquin was would shore up Tyler and Carolyn. It was the normal shit stirring that you see on Survivor and it failed miserably.

 

I also think that Shirin is just too excited to be playing and it drove people bat shit crazy. So the combo was not good.

 

Just like most of Kass's attempts to stir things up. Kass thought she was pointing out things that would anger people and cause them to change their vote or at least cause chaos at camp and that she would be able to take advantage of that chaos. Kass was never able to take advantage of the chaos and was simply seen as an obnoxious goat.

 

The difference is that Kass played with people who were less vitriolic then Shirin is playing. If Shirin is playing with a different group of people she would be the annoying person being brought along as the goat.

[kikaha]

BRC, unless Mike or Shirin wins the IC, I think Shirin gets booted this week.  Rodney & Co want and need to break up that twosome ASAP.  So long as one of their own allies wins the IC, they can make sure either Mike or Shirin gets voted out.  I'm pretty sure Mike will play his idol in that case, meaning Shirin heads off to Ponderosa. 

 

If Mike wins the IC, he can make sure one of the others goes home.  But he has to give Shirin his idol.  Is that really a good idea?  He's still down 5-2, with zero protection.  He has to run the table or get booted. 

 

I'm also inferring from what Jenn said -- that all the people she loved were at Ponderosa with her those last ten days -- that Shirin joins her pretty soon. 

 

Of course I'm wrong a lot more than I'm right about how things actually unfold in Survivor. 

Prof C: real good analysis IMO, though I disagree with one point of yours.  If Mike doesn't win the IC, he still has the HII in his pocket.  He knows he's at the top of the boot list.  So I think he plays the idol in that case, which sends Shirin packing. 

[ProfCrash]

I forgot about the idol. You are right.

 

I suppose that they could vote for Mike and not split votes because they are not worried about the idol. I don't think Mike has told anyone about his idol and they didn't split the vote last week so it could be that they don't think Mike has it. All six vote against Mike, so no one can say they didn't stab him in the back for a jury vote. Mike plays the idol and Tyler/Carolyn goes home.

 

I can see Mike and Shirin wanting to keep Will, Rodney or Dan because, well, they are goats. Sierra can't win squat. Tyler and Carolyn are quietly in the drivers seat in the alliance of six and would be the easiet to target.

[Lantern7]

Trying to look on the bright side . . . Shirin's jury speech will be friggin' EPIC. Even if we get a bland combination of Carolyn/Tyler/Sierra that didn't seem  to pile on her, it should be fun for somebody to try and top Sue Hawk's "Rats and Snakes" speech. And if we wind up -- heaven forbid -- with Will/Dan/Rodney? Oh, man. Probst might order her into one of those Hannibal Lechter rigs, taking awau her ability to bitch out people that need bitching out.

 

Seriously, Shirin, if you need somebody to hold one of those assholes while you give them the business, feel free to drop a line my way.

[SlackerInc]

Shirin has annoyed a lot of people. [...]

So, yeah, Shirin is annoying but the people who are speaking so openly about hating her in interviews mainly point to her being annoying and are not saying that she was a hateful person. The people who hate her left in the game are not particularly nice people.

 

I agree with the general thrust of your post, but I do still object to the bolded parts.  Both of them implicitly lay the blame at Shirin's feet in a way, or characterize her negatively.  She is actively annoying people, or she is just an annoying person.  To me, what she is is a slightly eccentric, highly intelligent, 21st century Millennial, urban West Coast progressive/feminist/secular type person.  Which sounds peachy to me, but will "annoy" most people in the American mainstream, and will mark her as "annoying" (at the very least) to them.  So the fuck what?  I guarantee every single one of those same people would find me "annoying" (again, at the very least) and I don't take that as an actual knock against me as a person or a sign I should change my ways--more like a badge of honor.

 

I do think that Hali's spec that it might have been Shirin's feminist ideas that really riled people up is right. Especially people like Rodney, Dan, Joaquin, Kelly, and Carolyn. And I'd add Tyler, but I seem to be the only one that gets a sexist vibe from him so maybe I'm being irrational.

 

Word to all this--and no, you're not being irrational.

[ProfCrash]

As someone who fears that she would be Shirin if she were to play Survivor I would hope that I would try and change my behavior.

 

Shirin annoyed people. There is no doubt about that. People told her to her face that she was annoying. Carolyn and Hali told her, actually pretty politely if a bit blunt, why she was seen as annoying. And yet there are interviews afterwards where Shirin was still talking a ton and annoying people. She and Dan were practically having pissing matches over who knew the game of Survivor better.

 

Go and watch her Ponderosa video. I laughed so hard because Shirin is so Shirin and Jenn and Hali are bending over backwards to not go bonkers dealing with Shirin. There are lists, the are specific recipes for the kitchen to make her salsa the exact way she wants it made. There are crayons everywhere. There is her talking about what she would have done had she been in control in the game. Joe is barely seen probably because he decided the pool was more fun then listening to Shirin and her lists and the like.

 

In Survivor you have to control how you are perceived and Shirin failed miserably with that. Her constant chatter and need to be in control and show how smart she is does not excuse the awful things Will said or how Shirin was treated by the others. Falt out, it does not excuse the awful behavior that we saw. But if you want to make it far in Survivor you have to figure out how to control your behavior. Cochran struggled with that in his first season and it cost him. Shirin struggled with it this season and it cost her.

 

So treated awfully because of her personality? Nope. Doing poorly in Survivor because of her personality? Yup

[ProfCrash]

Shirin's interview is up on EW. Just listening to it now

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/30/survivor-shirin

[scowl]

Trying to look on the bright side . . . Shirin's jury speech will be friggin' EPIC.

If she does it right and stays focused on the FTC2/3 and doesn't ramble off onto other contestants who mistreated her or how her Survivor experience sucked.

 

Also as we saw, Dan will be hopeless and a waste of time if he ends up on FTC. He'll respond to anything she says with an irritating nonsense answer (with absolute confidence) and everyone will accept it. There is such contempt for Shirin from the remaining cast (except Mike) that I doubt they'll bother answering her questions with anything more than shrugged disagreement.

[SlackerInc]

As someone who fears that she would be Shirin if she were to play Survivor I would hope that I would try and change my behavior.

 

Obviously MMV, but there's no way that, in what is likely the one time millions of people will get to "know" me, I'm going to sublimate my real self do some kabuki dance to please a few assholes in an almost certainly vain pursuit of $700K (and I could BTW name winners, starting with Richard Hatch, who didn't pretend to be anyone other than who they were).  Especially not if, as is the case with Shirin, I'm already financially quite comfortable.*  Shirin got to stay past the merge, got lots of screen time with a mostly sympathetic edit, gets to have a major impact on the season's outcome as a member of the jury, and gets to be in the Ponderosa videos, all while being true to herself.  If I were her, I would not want to go back and change a thing.

 

Shirin annoyed people. There is no doubt about that. People told her to her face that she was annoying.

 

So everything these assholes have said to people this season should be taken at face value?  They are in charge of reality?  I don't see anyone in this season who is someone Shirin would voluntarily associate with socially.  I've already acknowledged that she (and I) are guaranteed to be perceived as "annoying" by the vast majority of the hoi polloi.  That was never under dispute, not from me anyway.

 

Carolyn and Hali told her, actually pretty politely if a bit blunt, why she was seen as annoying.

 

Had you earlier used the verbiage "seen as annoying", I would not have had any issue with it.  But these distinctions are important.  To illustrate why, think about this example, using "offensive" and "offended" instead of "annoying" and "annoyed".

 

"Jane and June offended people by getting married.  Their same-sex marriage was offensive."

 

Not cool, right?  How about:

 

"Jane and June's same-sex marriage was perceived as offensive by many people with conservative religious views."

 

Does that clarify what I was getting at?

 

Go and watch her Ponderosa video.

 

Sorry, but I had already watched it when I posted the comment you responded to.  (Had I not, I probably would not have inserted "slightly eccentric" into my description of Shirin.)  I also enjoyed her "day after" video in which she talked about her strategy and further charmed me, especially with her use of the term "axis of evil" to, presumably, describe Rodney, Will, and Dan?  Not entirely sure, actually.  Maybe Mama C is there in place of Dan?

--------

*Edited this to clarify: IRL, I myself am actually not financially comfortable--more like slightly above the poverty line--but I still wouldn't do it.  It just makes even less sense for someone like Shirin.

Edited April 30, 2015 by SlackerInc

[Special K]

I have friends like Shirin:  Smart and high-strung, OCD, ADD types.  I complain about them and give them shit about it.  But I love them and they know it.  And I don't want or expect them to change.

 

Would I want to live with them or take a long vacation with them?  Maybe not.