S30: Max Dawson

[Donny Ketchum]

Hi.  I've taught classes on Survivor before.

[peachmangosteen]

I posted this in the spoiler thread, but it belongs here now that we have contestant threads. Max has a tumblr that he posts on pretty frequently. He and Shirin seem to be pretty close based on the fact that he posted a text convo they had.

[CletusMusashi]

That bothers me a little. I like him, and I'm open to liking her, but I don't approve of casting two people who know each other, unless it's theme season where everybody gets that advantage/disadvantage. 

[peachmangosteen]

No, they didn't know each other before the show. At least I don't think so. They just seem to have become pretty close since filming. It seems like the whole White Collar group is pretty good friends now actually.

[Special K]

This guy might be my favorite going in, on the strength of this alone:

 

 

Reason for Being on SURVIVOR: First and foremost, I am playing to win. That said, I'm also strongly motivated by the prospect of hearing Probst say, “All the fixins.”

[Tryangle]

Well, he proved to be a diehard fan of the game, although he was clearly too forthcoming with his collection of random facts and trivia.

 

Very nice parting words, though, I'm sure he was stunned but he appeared to take it in stride. His humility there I found endearing.

[CletusMusashi]

I wonder if his feet being injured was a factor in voting him out over Shirin.

[LadyChatts]

I didn't have an opinion on Max other than I just didn't care for him, and he seemed a little too cocky.  For a guy that actually taught a class on Survivor and knows every star sign of every player, you'd think he'd be a little better at actually playing the game.  I missed Carolyn's eye roll at TC when he pretended to go for an idol, so I thought maybe she double crossed the others and handed him her idol.  The look on Shirin's face was priceless.  Max was just too cocky for his own good.  Would have gotten along fine on the BC tribe.  The former no collar tribe has an interesting set of dynamics.  With the lop sided tribes I expect them to go back to TC next week.  We'll see if anything else shifts.

[dolphincorn]

I once sold an article to a newspaper syndicate assessing the success of contestants based on their zodiac signs. I wonder if he read it.

[LanceM]

Max and Shirin being the superfans that they are should no that Survivor is first and foremost a social game. Strategy comes second.  

[LadyChatts]

I feel like all 4 people voted out so far have broken some simple Survivor rule that resulted in their ouster.  First and foremost being way too overconfident, but loose lips seemed to sink everyone thus far.  Or big mouths in Max's case.  For a die hard Survivor expert, I find it amusing he couldn't even tell that Carolyn was flipping on them before the swap even happened.  I'm still just amazed at Max's boot.  Even though I hated the thought, seeing the Survivor professor win seemed like some sort of story line this show goes for.  I wonder if Max was still so giddy about losing.

[Donny Ketchum]

I feel like all 4 people voted out so far have broken some simple Survivor rule that resulted in their ouster.

There've been five -- So, Vince, Nina, Lindsey, and Max.

[LadyChatts]

There've been five -- So, Vince, Nina, Lindsey, and Max.

 

Obviously Lindsey made no impression on me, considering she was voted out this very episode lol  So 4/5 people voted off made fatal (and stupid) mistakes, mainly due to their big mouths.  Which again makes me wonder, when will Dan get his turn to go?

[Donny Ketchum]

Which again makes me wonder, when will Dan get his turn to go?

Probably . . . not for weeks, if his tribe continues to be as strong as it is. . . .

[LadyChatts]

Probably . . . not for weeks, if his tribe continues to be as strong as it is. . . .

 

Since the merge is coming up, I'm going to sincerely hope that's not the case.  He'll no doubt make it there, but hopefully be gone first after the tribes come together.  And I hope his ouster is as good as Max.  Just seeing people so arrogant and sure of themselves getting the boot is gold.

[cooksdelight]

I just watched part of a YouTube video of Max talking about what he experienced. I couldn't get halfway through the thing because the man does not know when to stop talking. About the same stuff, over and over. THIS is probably why he was booted. I could imagine him talking non-stop about Survivor....stats, trivia.....it would drive me insane. He's not at all self-aware either, his nudism proved that. Dude, realize for a minute that not everyone wants to see you walking around swinging your junk. Factor in the motor mouth and I'd want him gone, pronto.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qfp42Z4H7s

[Kromm]

Here's my impression of Maximum Jackass from the episode thread.

 

 

 

You know, maybe Max stands for "Maximum Jackass".

I think Max and his Survivor Bride are a good lesson in how over-intellectualizing the game completely misses the point of it. Swallowing a textbook on something doesn't make you any good at it. Survivor is about being able to think on your feet and react to a unique situation presented to you, not endlessly comparing it to previous versions. Oh yeah. And fucking LISTENING, Max and Shirin. Listening. Not talking.

"Teaching Survivor classes" is kind of a big flashing signal.  You can't teach the ability to read your fellow human beings.  Max has little to none of that skill.  He's just a nerd (and I mean that in the pejorative sense people don't usually use that term for much these days), who's a thinker because he's incapable of being a doer.

[scowl]

I hope Max will be the last contestant who attempts to win Survivor through the power of Astrology. 

[leighdear]

If nothing else, his future classes will have an additional "I was there" component they never had before.  Added authenticity in an instructor is always a plus.

 

But he was an ass that deserved to be booted for being stupid. 

[Lakewood27]

Reason for Being on SURVIVOR: First and foremost, I am playing to win. That said, I'm also strongly motivated by the prospect of hearing Probst say, “All the fixins.”

Hahahaha! He never got to hear those words.

[Donny Ketchum]

I wonder if there'll even be any legitimacy in the classes anymore since they'd be taught by a pre-merge boot?  Not exactly a respectable, credible source to teach the class.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Donny Ketchum

[peachmangosteen]

I wonder if there'll even be any legitimacy in the classes anymore since they'd be taught by a pre-merge boot?  Not exactly a respectable, credible source to teach the class.

 

Or to date.

 

I was skimming Max's Xfinity interview because I like the part of those where they do word association. Max assigned them all numbers and wouldn't say what he meant by it. Blerg. I really tried to like him because I appreciate his superfan-ness but damn he is so insufferable.

[seacliffsal]

I think he's impressed with himself.  I checked out his bio and one of the three words he used to describe himself was "brilliant."  He also wrote of how he admired his father for various things including living with his mother and grandmother for 40 years.  Kind of insulting.  He was so sure that he was going to enact a blindside on someone else, never realizing how much he bothered others.  Maybe he needs to consider that others have some intelligence and capabilities and not just him.

[jsm1125]

In his defense, I don't think he has taught as a professor for a few years.

[Donny Ketchum]

My goodness.  Not only did Max and Shirin do their alliance in with their social ineptitude, but according to a video posted in Hail's thread, they wasted no time in doing so!  Apparently, Carolyn and Kelly jumped to Hali, Jenn, and Will sooner than we were shown!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvFEDqdFgKc

[LadyChatts]

Reading this little bit makes me even happier he got the boot.  Hype can be an ugly thing, especially when you believe your own.  I still can't believe for a guy that is such a super fan he seemed to have no concept of the game at all.

 

Tom Santilli: Speaking of Shirin, Jeff Probst and many others always talk about "self-awareness" as a vital attribute one must have in order to do well in Survivor. Shirin was your closest ally, so were you unaware how others were perceiving her, or did you just not care that you would be associated with someone that was getting on the nerves of everyone else?

 

Max: Well I knew that Shirin was considered annoying on both tribes we were on. Tyler and Joaquin had their fill of Shirin I think by the end of the first day. Jenn within a few hours of the swap came to me, rolled her eyes and asked, does she ever shut up? I knew Shirin was having a difficult time fitting in with everyone but me. All my life I've been surrounded by people like Shirin. By that I don't mean annoying people, I mean smart, quirky, original, driven, brilliant, high-achievers. Those are the types of people I want to be around. Whether or not they have the social graces enough to navigate Survivor is another question. Part of the reason why I wanted Shirin around was that I planned on doing some nasty stuff out there, I planned on getting my hands dirty, on blindsiding some people. I knew that Shirin would have absolutely no qualms in doing any of that. I knew that she would absolutely relish the opportunity to play the game. I also knew that given the inherent sexism that exists on Survivor, that if I was sitting at the end with Shirin and if we had equally soiled our hands, that she would be seen by the jury as being a bitch, and in Joaquin's words, a paranoid woman. Where I would stand a better chance of winning and being seen as a master-mind or a cult leader. It was strategy. I liked Shirin and wanted to be around her, but I also wanted to be around her because in the end, I could beat her.

 

Edited March 20, 2015 by LadyChatts

[loki567]

I don't know if he's wrong there. It's not a nice thing to say he would take advantage of the sexism in Survivor, but Survivor's not a nice game. Like he said, in a situation where a man and a woman did an equal amount of backstabbing, the man's likely to get more of the credit and less of the blame ex. Cochran and Dawn. Most of the episode, we saw Shirin doing most of the legwork to get Kelly and yet, Max is the one referred to as the "cult leader." It obviously can backfire as that's likely the reason they targeted him before her. 

[Kromm]

To be fair, I just listened to Mr. Maximum on Rob Has A Podcast.   The good is that he came off as more self-aware than I'd have assumed before listening to it that he would.

 

The bad news is that thinking about it afterwards, it sounds like a lot of his shots at himself and his game were in response to him being on the Internet after the broadcast and building his responses based on what people were saying about him. In other words, using a technique of admitting to a lot of what people were saying about him specifically because they were saying it, in something of a deliberate (pardon the phrase) "strategy" to get out in front of the criticisms (in other words, he probably doesn't actually believe any of them but is just acting like he does).

 

I'd say he's found a way to over-intellectualize/over-analyze the post-Survivor sociological stuff and is gaming it rather than reacting as a real person. This is exactly, in fact, what he admitted to doing on the show itself as part of some master plan to get screentime--to "game" the Survivor producers and feed them what he felt would get him the most talking heads aired, the most storylines maintained in the edit, etc.

 

Finally, despite saying lots of pseudo-self aware stuff, you can still hear that bogus lecturing tone to his voice even as he does so.  And that's most annoying of all.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Kromm

[Special K]

The term that comes to my mind regarding Max is "self-congratulatory."  Like as his general demeanor.

[Lakewood27]

My goodness.  Not only did Max and Shirin do their alliance in with their social ineptitude, but according to a video posted in Hail's thread, they wasted no time in doing so!  Apparently, Carolyn and Kelly jumped to Hali, Jenn, and Will sooner than we were shown!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvFEDqdFgKc

 

Sounds like Hali should be the one teaching the 'Survivor' class:

 

Be a decent person. Don't be a weirdo. Don't be annoying. Don't be inconsiderate.

[Kromm]

 

Be a decent person. Don't be a weirdo. Don't be annoying. Don't be inconsiderate.

Or better yet, BE all of those things in casting, so that you get cast (because those are advantages there), but when you're actually on the Island, stop doing it.

 

Unless your priority is cameratime vs. winning.  If it is then by all means, keep being a weirdo. Keep being annoying. Keep being inconsiderate.  You'll get plenty of screentime.  You just won't win.

Mr; Survivor Professor Asshole somehow didn't know this. You have to make a choice between "being a character" and having the best strategy. Admittedly every once in a while a "character" goes far on the show, but if so they're usually the goat, not the winner.

[ProfCrash]

His interview on RHAP was interesting. He said that he was asked to re-shoot the naked scene so they could bring in a helicopter and that there were several other occasions that he was playing to the camera. He spent a lot of time referencing those things you cannot talk about and those people you cannot talk about, so he is , essentially, someone who wanted to be on the show to be on the show and really didn't seem to care about how far he went. We can expect to hear him on RHAP far too often because he loves to hear his own voice and wants to promote himself for his Survivor knowledge.

 

Honestly, I think he wanted to be on the show only so he could say he was on the show and use that to try and spring board his Survivor obsession into a money making career.

[Donny Ketchum]

His interview on RHAP was interesting. He said that he was asked to re-shoot the naked scene so they could bring in a helicopter and that there were several other occasions that he was playing to the camera. He spent a lot of time referencing those things you cannot talk about and those people you cannot talk about, so he is , essentially, someone who wanted to be on the show to be on the show and really didn't seem to care about how far he went. We can expect to hear him on RHAP far too often because he loves to hear his own voice and wants to promote himself for his Survivor knowledge.

 

Honestly, I think he wanted to be on the show only so he could say he was on the show and use that to try and spring board his Survivor obsession into a money making career.

Sadly, I think you might be right.  I liked Max a fair bit on the show, but post-show, that liking is quickly fading away.

[Kromm]

Yeah, like I said, his RHAP ultimately made me loathe him even more.  Again, on the surface "fessing up" to some of his mistakes might seem self-aware, but the whole context of those confessions made it clear to me that him doing so was just a mea-culpa to try and get people on his side/off his case a bit.  There was no true humility or reflection there, and while I wasn't at all surprised he also confessed to playing the "how to get the most TV time" game, the way he baldly stated it as if he was proud of himself for that, but whoops! it means he lost the game... turned my stomach.  We all know a good percentage of people who go on reality shows are famewhores, but having it shoved in our faces like that?  Well, good for people who go to his sure-to-be-upcoming "how to get the most camera-time/create a reality character" master-class, but as a viewer I can't admire it (maybe it can be admired only as a crass business strategy as a reality TV career move--to get reality TV famous, then start side businesses, like getting personal appearance bookings after the show).

[kikaha]

he is , essentially, someone who wanted to be on the show to be on the show and really didn't seem to care about how far he went.

 

I got the opposite sense from him.  He looked stunned to get voted out.  Shocked.  He didn't even get to merge. 

 

I think Max fully expected to make FTC, wow the jury with his brilliance, and win.  However, I did not listen to his RHAP interview, or hear or read any other post-game interviews he has done. 

 

 Like he said, in a situation where a man and a woman did an equal amount of backstabbing, the man's likely to get more of the credit and less of the blame ex. Cochran and Dawn. 

 

I've heard this charge before, and have not seen good evidence of it.  Cochran and Dawn, e.g. don't seem to fit the bill. 

 

Dawn did a lot more backstabbing than Cochran.  That was part of the beauty of his play.  Dawn did the key dirty work, while he kept his hands clean.  Also, Dawn made it so personal with her besties, the knife cut too deep when she backstabbed them. 

 

What examples are there of this double standard? 

[ratgirlagogo]

 

What examples are there of this double standard?

I immediately think of Yul and Becky.  Have to think.

 

 

he is , essentially, someone who wanted to be on the show to be on the show and really didn't seem to care about how far he went

 

I got the opposite sense from him.  He looked stunned to get voted out.  Shocked.  He didn't even get to merge.

I think Max fully expected to make FTC, wow the jury with his brilliance, and win.

That's what I think too.  He's retconning the whole thing in his boot interviews.   Like a kid who wipes out  trying to do some trick  move on a skateboard.  I MEANT to slam my nuts into that stair railing all along.

[LadyChatts]

I don't know if he's wrong there. It's not a nice thing to say he would take advantage of the sexism in Survivor, but Survivor's not a nice game. Like he said, in a situation where a man and a woman did an equal amount of backstabbing, the man's likely to get more of the credit and less of the blame ex. Cochran and Dawn. Most of the episode, we saw Shirin doing most of the legwork to get Kelly and yet, Max is the one referred to as the "cult leader." It obviously can backfire as that's likely the reason they targeted him before her. 

 

I don't think the idea of wanting to play the game is wrong.  One of my biggest pet peeves is when people come on board, get into an alliance, and let someone else just run the show and drag them to the end.  Or said-goat gets voted off when they aren't needed anymore, and had passed up opportunities to make moves. I think it was more the arrogance that I didn't like reading in that interview, and after last week of Max and his 'so excited for tribal!  We're finally playing Survivor!', I'm glad I don't have to listen to anymore confessionals about how he's going to brilliantly destroy the game and make history.

 

In regards to Max wanting camera time vs wanting to win, I believe it's both: he went in wanting to do anything and everything for camera time, obviously overestimated his Survivor knowledge in game play, but I fully believe he wanted and expected to win (or at the very least make the jury).  And thank god he didn't make it that far, because that would have been a jury moment worth muting.  In reading some exit interviews with him, if Max hadn't been so worried about creating some sort of legacy that will now never be, maybe he would have been a little more in tune to what was going on around him.  I believe he may have bought too deep into the "get an alliance of weaklings and you'll control the game" that has worked for people before him.  I almost wish we could have seen a WC tribal before the swap, because that might have been even more fantastic than this past week.

[Kromm]

Well he got his wish. Sort of. He's being talked about a lot.

 

What he maybe didn't anticipate was that he'd be talked about as an enormous fool.

[Dobian]

I'm glad the idiots are getting voted off one by one.  Now we need to see Shirin and Dan shown the exit, as well as Boston Rob Jr.

[peachmangosteen]

I immediately think of Yul and Becky.  Have to think.

 

Yul and Becky was my first thought, too. Maybe Natalie/Russell even though she won but more from the perspective of the audience because of the editing. I would still include Dawn/Cochran but it's a bit different. Also, maybe Lisa/Mike Skupin, but I don't remember too much if she got the credit she deserved in that pairing.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Boston Rob Jr.

NO NO NO.  Rob Mariano is far from being a favorite of mine, but the guy was charming and knew how to make every single person on his tribe feel like he had a personal connection with them, and them only.  Rodney just THINKS he's BR.  Agree that he's cannon fodder though.

Edited March 21, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[Kromm]

Plus at the end of the day, while Rob had some of that Boston blue collar attitude towards women, he's a far more intelligent man than Rodney, so he knew the limits of that belief system.  Unlike Rodney, Rob wasn't stuck between the ideas that if a woman wasn't there to cook him a meal before she left for church, she must instead be there to give him a blow job.

[kikaha]

It's been a real long time, but I don't recall much backstabbing (if any) from either Yul or Becky.  Yul got credit as the mastermind, for sure, while Becky claimed co-credit.  But the jury members -- the people actually out there playing the game -- did not buy that.  Besides, the claim is about backstabbing, not who gets credit for strategic moves. 

 

Natalie and Russell: Russell the asshole paid for his sins, almost all of which were unnecessary.  Natalie did not get more blame for backstabbing: in fact, she won because the jury couldn't stand Russell and his hijinx. 

 

Dawn and Cochran: again, Dawn did the backstabbing, and she made it real personal on top of that. 

 

Lisa and Mike: neither one paid a heavier price for backstabbing IMO.  The jury treated them pretty well the same, both with questions and the vote, where Denise won 6-1-1.

 

So I still believe no examples have been given, that show what was claimed. 

[wonald]

 

I got the opposite sense from him.  He looked stunned to get voted out.  Shocked.  He didn't even get to merge.

I think Max fully expected to make FTC, wow the jury with his brilliance, and win.

 

That was my sense as well. I think it was Kromm who pointed out how lazy Max was after the first initial 3 days. He coasted and seemed to do little of the constant tending and reinforcement of alliances that is the backbone of good Survivor play.

[Lakewood27]

[...] Well, good for people who go to his sure-to-be-upcoming "how to get the most camera-time/create a reality character" master-class, but as a viewer I can't admire it (maybe it can be admired only as a crass business strategy as a reality TV career move--to get reality TV famous, then start side businesses, like getting personal appearance bookings after the show).

Lesson one: You're likely to get more camera time if you're not kicked off the island 4th.

There's still so much show left. I don't think he will matter much when this season wraps up.

I don't have what it takes to be a contestant on this show, but if I did audition and get cast, I would want to experience all of the highlights. Like finding a HII. Using an HII. A fun overnight reward challenge. Making the merge. Then jury. This has to be killing Max inside. He never even got the Ponderosa experience, which I enjoy watching as much as the show.

Also, something has been bothering me. Max kept saying he was so eager to engineer some epic #blindside. How was a Will vote supposed to count as a blindside? Will knew he was at the bottom of his own tribe because he is a challenge liability. With an even number of WC and NC, wouldn't he have done the math? At least consider the possibility that he was in danger?

Edited March 22, 2015 by Lakewood27

[Donny Ketchum]

Lesson one: You're likely to get more camera time if you're not kicked off the island 4th.

Accomplished.  He wasn't kicked off fourth.  He was kicked off fifth.

[BigRedCheese]

Max didn't get all that he wanted out of the show, but now he's a part of the Survivor community, which seems like something he was after. Now he will get invited to all the wrap parties, take part in Rob's podcast, perhaps score a gig on his local news show discussing Survivor, maybe even get to hob nob at Stephen's "wine and cheese" parties (Francesca goes to those, and she was a first boot..twice). I think as far as Max is concerned, just appearing on the show was his ticket into a world he desperately wanted to belong to, and now he does.

[LadyChatts]

 

 

Lesson one: You're likely to get more camera time if you're not kicked off the island 4th.

There's still so much show left. I don't think he will matter much when this season wraps up.

I don't have what it takes to be a contestant on this show, but if I did audition and get cast, I would want to experience all of the highlights. Like finding a HII. Using an HII. A fun overnight reward challenge. Making the merge. Then jury. This has to be killing Max inside. He never even got the Ponderosa experience, which I enjoy watching as much as the show.

Also, something has been bothering me. Max kept saying he was so eager to engineer some epic #blindside. How was a Will vote supposed to count as a blindside? Will knew he was at the bottom of his own tribe because he is a challenge liability. With an even number of WC and NC, wouldn't he have done the math? At least consider the possibility that he was in danger?

 

So mentioned in her day after video that getting to play Survivor for 3 days was more like a tease of what the game actually is.  In early seasons when contestants were on the verge of a pre-merge boot, many of them would plead to whoever would listen that they just wanted to make it that far.  I do believe that Survivor really begins for some people once they hit that point.  For some it may be the fact that they're going to get more camera time or have the potential to be asked back for some alumni season since they made it.  But getting to when it's an actual individual game, when there's no more tribes, no majority, blindsides and backstabbing, is when the game really starts to get going.  If I went on this show, I'd want to make it that far as well, even though I would totally suck at playing this game and be the very player I always complain about.

 

I don't really get how Will was considered a blindside, either.  Unless they figured that Kelly was 100% with them, since she was considered a swing vote.  But I would have considered Jenn or Hali to be more of a blindside since they were stronger, physically, and likely wouldn't have expected it.  Will hasn't really done much except get real lucky.  He's probably as surprised as the next one to still be standing.  Even if Nagarote loses next week, I don't see him going.

 

In regards to Max, if this season is as wonderful as Probst has said (and even Max went off on how it's the best season yet, but it's not like you'd expect him to diss his own season), by the time the finale rolls around he'll probably be even more of a distant memory.

Edited March 23, 2015 by LadyChatts

[ratgirlagogo]

 

He said he really only stripped to go poop in the ocean but the camera crew rushed over so he hammed it up on the spot, with the nudity story.  I don't know how I'd react to a camera crew rushing up to me trying to poop, really.  I for sure wouldn't appreciate it and I'm surprised they do that.  He's pretty funny in interviews.

This seems weird to me.  Surely every single person who has ever played Survivor has gone somewhere and taken their pants down to piss and shit many, many times in each season - and yet we have not seen the bare pixillated underparts of any of these people. I realize the camera crew films much more than we see - but he must have given the cameras QUITE a bit for the editors to work with, for us to have seen that Hatch-level amount of nudity.  

Edited March 28, 2015 by ratgirlagogo

[Guest]

Maybe camera crews have been approaching stripping people all along in the hopes one of them will be 'fame ho' enough to spin a "oh I'm just a nudist like Hatch!" story, and this is the first one who did.  All the prior players had the normal reaction-- "Fuck off, I'm just trying to take a shit."  

 

The whole thing sounds crazy.  I still can't believe they have these people shit in the ocean.  I guess they know it'll wash out and not up on the beach?  What a lousy way to treat your host country's beach.  Lake Powell is hundreds of feet deep and has more shoreline than California and it's illegal to shit anywhere that's not a potty.  What happens when some Survivor has to shit in the middle of the night?  Do they have to go dig a hole or are they supposed to go for a moonlight swim?