S01.E01: Pilot

[rozen]

I thought this was so hilarious, new favorite show to watch now and then. The lunch scene brought back so many memories of when I worked with kids back then. I remember there was a Chinese girl who always shared her dumplings and calmly gave instructions on how to eat them because all the other kids thought the texture was weird. I'm pretty sure one of them specifically compared it to Gak, and when I was shushing them I wondered how many times she'd had to do this before. 

 

Jessica struggling valiantly with the rollerblading was priceless. Who holds a bag of dog poop that high, anyway? Chucking poop in other people's trash cans was definitely A Thing when I was younger, so I have no idea why she'd hold on to it for so long anyway. Actually, where I'm from, if the poop wasn't in someone's lawn it probably would have just been left there. 

 

I don't know why the made the black kid the racist one. It's certainly unrealistic that he would have come out of it unscathed. He should have been right out there with Eddie (getting berated by his parents for being so stupid).

[Oscirus]

It was an alright episode. I especially liked the kid who adapted and had a girlfriend and what not. The mother was also surprisingly understanding of her son's struggles. And while I appreciate the fact that they didn't end the episode on a violence is not the answer moral, it bothers me that they just left the racism subplot unresolved. why even bring that up? The black kid could have easily bullied him in any number of ways. Yet,  the writers chose to do something provocative and then ignore it for a feel good ending.

[PRgal]

 

 

I don't know why the made the black kid the racist one. It's certainly unrealistic that he would have come out of it unscathed. He should have been right out there with Eddie (getting berated by his parents for being so stupid).

 

I'm not surprised that they made the black kid the racist one.  I've received more ignorant comments from blacks/other non-whites regarding East Asians than from white people!  Still, he should have been sent to the principal's office as well.

[Auroraborealus]

I'm sure the black kid will feature again in future episodes. It would be nice if they continue the arc between the two of them over several episodes instead of neatly wrapping everything up in half an hour.

And as far as the racism being ignored by the school, it wasn't so unusual back then. I grew up in Orlando in the 80s-90s and I remember in elementary school being called all sorts of racist names by bullies and nothing was ever done about it. When I complained to a teacher I was invariably told to ignore it and worry about my own behavior.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Auroraborealus

[solotrek]

I don't know why the made the black kid the racist one. It's certainly unrealistic that he would have come out of it unscathed. He should have been right out there with Eddie (getting berated by his parents for being so stupid).

 

This is from the book.

[Unraveled]

I was a teenager in the 90s, and I'm also an Asian immigrant (though I immigrated when I was 6 and have no accent whatsoever). A lot of it appeals to me as I also grew up in a predominantly white town.

 

I really want this show to succeed alongside, Black-ish (minority) and the Goldbergs (nostalgia).

 

I don't know why the made the black kid the racist one. It's certainly unrealistic that he would have come out of it unscathed. He should have been right out there with Eddie (getting berated by his parents for being so stupid).

Eh, I sort of understand it. Presumably, the black kid was the lowest on the totem pole, and then the Asian guy came in with the smelly lunch. He was no longer the one everyone made fun of and avoided. I'm sure he was also called racist names too.

 

Plus he made the very good joke of rap music customers in the 90s: suburban white boys.

[scartact]

I'm not sure if this is confirmation, but Constance Wu had some little blog interview on Glamour and the interviewer said she's 26 in one of the questions. Anyway, there's definitely plenty of Asian mothers who look very young for their age.

Also, sidenote: but I find it a little disheartening to hear folks bringing up the smells of foods from their friends' houses as smelling horrible. Things like this is why Eddie was rejecting part of his culture in order to better assimilate to the norm. It may have been realistic to show kids rejecting Eddie for his food and the smell of his food, but that really resonated with me growing up and worrying that if my friends came over they wouldn't like what we had because it was "too weird" or the smell was disgusting. Regardless, it is interesting how the show addresses struggles with assimilation.

Edited February 6, 2015 by scartact

[Kromm]

I'm not sure if this is confirmation, but Constance Wu had some little blog interview on Glamour and the interviewer said she's 26 in one of the questions: way, there's definitely plenty of Asian mothers who look very young for their age.

Yeah, like I said, it was maybe less relevant to talk about how young she looks (because the way she's made up IS trying to age her) and more that she doesn't have that slightly hard look of the stereotypical Tiger Mom (her home persona)/Dragon Lady (the at work persona, who yells at all the employees, and watches the customers like a hawk).  That's less about age and more about a constant scowl, tons of mascara, as WELL as the attitude.

And as far as the racism being ignored by the school, it wasn't so unusual back then. I grew up in Orlando in the 80s-90s and I remember in elementary school being called all sorts of racist names by bullies and nothing was ever done about it. When I complained to a teacher I was invariably told to ignore it and worry about my own behavior.

Florida is still the South, after all.

[Auroraborealus]

Also, sidenote: but I find it a little disheartening to hear folks bringing up the smells of foods from their friends' houses as smelling horrible. Things like this is why Eddie was rejecting part of his culture in order to better assimilate to the norm. It may have been realistic to show kids rejecting Eddie for his food and the smell of his food, but that really resonated with me growing up and worrying that if my friends came over they wouldn't like what we had because it was "too weird" or the smell was disgusting. Regardless, it is interesting how the show addresses struggles with assimilation.

To be fair, some of the food was stinky even to us. Once, my parents made gopchang, intestines very similar to chitterlings and I had to leave the house during prep because they smelled so bad. And the days my mom made kimchi stew the house smelled like it for days.

Florida is still the South, after all.

It is and more so then than now. I mean, in retrospect I suppose complaining about racist bullies to my beergutted, good 'ol boy PE teacher who asked me in the first grade if my parents were commies and if we were from North or South Korea was an exercise in futility. Edited February 6, 2015 by Auroraborealus

[PRgal]

To be fair, some of the food was stinky even to us. Once, my parents made gopchang, intestines very similar to chitterlings and I had to leave the house during prep because they smelled so bad. And the days my mom made kimchi stew the house smelled like it for days.

It is and more so then than now. I mean, in retrospect I suppose complaining about racist bullies to my beergutted, good 'ol boy PE teacher who asked me in the first grade if my parents were commies and if we were from North or South Korea was an exercise in futility.

 

The thing is, the FOB parents probably can't smell it - they're "nose blind" to these foods while we aren't.  I'm sure they find cheese gross, just as I wasn't able to walk into a Chinese grocery store when I was small because it was so stinky.  Glad that the ones now don't smell (probably because there's better ventilation) and they're much bigger - a "real" supermarket that just happens to have a lot of Asian foods.

[Auroraborealus]

The thing is, the FOB parents probably can't smell it - they're "nose blind" to these foods while we aren't. I'm sure they find cheese gross, just as I wasn't able to walk into a Chinese grocery store when I was small because it was so stinky. Glad that the ones now don't smell (probably because there's better ventilation) and they're much bigger - a "real" supermarket that just happens to have a lot of Asian foods.

Ha, my kids refer to the local Hmart as the "stinky fish smelling store". Luckily, they all enjoy most of the Korean food I make them and don't seem to mind the smell.

And yes with the cheese! My grandmother in Korea abhored cheese and claimed foreigners (Americans) smelled like rotten milk. I like to tell this to people who return from visiting Korea and say everyone smells like garlic. It's just in what you're accustomed to.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Auroraborealus

[photo fox]

It's just in what you're accustomed to.

 

So true.  My area is heavily German/Irish, and I've never smelled any food that smells worse than corned beef and cabbage (or sour kraut).  But people here line up for blocks to eat it on St. Patrick's Day.  Yuck!

[Former Nun]

I'm glad (for the show) there are many good comments.  Guess I'm too picky.  The writing is poor.  The only actors doing a good job are the kids (especially the three Huang kids).  I understand the author/producer, Eddie Huang isn't exactly thrilled at the finished product.   What seemed to make it worse for me was placing it before and after "Modern Family," where the writing is superb and so are the actors.

[AnnaRose]

I had mixed feelings about this.  I found some of it amusing, and liked the two youngest kids the most.  But I really hated all the hip-hop stuff.

 

And I may be the only one here who was bothered by this, but I didn't like the resolution in the principal's office.  I agree that the other kid's behavior needed to be addressed, but responding to name calling with physical violence should not be excused... and I hated the whole "we'll sue if you try to punish our kid for assaulting another student" thing.   And then no discussion about it afterwards other than a - good for you for sticking up for yourself - type response from the mom.  Not cool.

[jmonique]

What seemed to make it worse for me was placing it before and after "Modern Family," where the writing is superb and so are the actors.

 

I could maybe see that as a point three years ago. But not with the show the "Modern Family" team has been turning out this season.

 

I'm half-Taiwanese, with an FOB mother. I was telling two first-generation Korean Americans about the show today. When I told them about "I need white-people food!" they both burst out laughing. It was fairly obvious that was a conversation that they'd had with their kids, likely regularly.

 

It's really weird for me to have a show on that I can relate to with the Asian side of me. The fact that it's relatable AND funny gives me hope that it will survive. Jessica is more assertive than my mother, in a way, but that same strength of character that's just different from Clare Huxtable and Roseanne and Maggie Seaver is so recognizable that I really, really hope this show makes it.

[Former Nun]

I want this show to make it too...but it needs revamping.  Shows that often start out with problems are moved in fabulous directions.  Cross your fingers.

[Constantinople]

The kid is a bit of a whiner.

 

If he wants a more "American" lunch, make it himself.  He's old enough to make himself a sandwich.

 

Plus, his parents own this thing called a restaurant.  He could ask his dad to bring something home.

[jmonique]

I'm hoping it quickly follows the trajectory of "Selfie," which just got better by leaps and bounds each episodes. I think it's off to a much stronger start already.

 

I think what I also like is that the parents seem to like each other. They're different, with different views of people and the world at times, but they don't seem to despise each other, like so many other sitcom spouses. When they teamed up against the principal was particularly striking, IMO. You don't see too many couples on TV lately who work together like that.

[biakbiak]

If he wants a more "American" lunch, make it himself. He's old enough to make himself a sandwich.

That is assuming they have bread, which is a huge assumption. Seriously, I am white but I grew up in Seattle with a ton of Asian Ameican friends and bread and sandwich fixings wasn't something that many of them regularly had on hand. Not trying to say they hadn't ever seen bread but it simple wasn't a basic food staple in their homes. Udon? Kimchi? Rice? Etc. Yes, depending on their nationality but sandwich bread wasn't a staple for many. Heck, my freshman roommate (Japanese) in college thought it was weird that we had milk for cereal in our little fridge.

And that isn't even going into the notion that spans different ethnic groups that children can make their own school lunches.

Edited February 8, 2015 by biakbiak

[sadiegirl]

I was confused why the parents, who were not born in the US, had American names.  I understand if they picked 'American' names, like Eddie did, but in my experience, that would be for people outside the house. I had an 'American' name but it's not what my parents used.

 

I do like the younger brothers.  They are cute but not annoying (yet, since that's always a possibility with the young ones).

[PRgal]

I was confused why the parents, who were not born in the US, had American names.  I understand if they picked 'American' names, like Eddie did, but in my experience, that would be for people outside the house. I had an 'American' name but it's not what my parents used.

 

I do like the younger brothers.  They are cute but not annoying (yet, since that's always a possibility with the young ones).

 

Might not be their legal/official names but names they adapted when they arrived.  Surprised that Eddie didn't have an official western name, though.  Maybe it's a Taiwanese thing.  Legal western names are almost universal for Hong Kong Canadians born this side of the Pacific.  I'd say that it's fairly common in the old country, as well.  I can count on ONE HAND the number of people I know under 45 with only a Chinese name (two).

[Constantinople]

That is assuming they have bread, which is a huge assumption.

If Eddie can ask his mother to take him to a store to buy Lunchables, he can ask her to take him to a store to buy bread.  I have yet to find a store that sells Lunchables that doesn't sell bread.

Either that, or he can ask his mother to buy the individual food items that comprise a Lunchable and assemble it himself.

 

Seriously, I am white but I grew up in Seattle with a ton of Asian Ameican friends and bread and sandwich fixings wasn't something that many of them regularly had on hand. Not trying to say they hadn't ever seen bread but it simple wasn't a basic food staple in their homes. Udon? Kimchi? Rice? Etc. Yes, depending on their nationality but sandwich bread wasn't a staple for many. Heck, my freshman roommate (Japanese) in college thought it was weird that we had milk for cereal in our little fridge.

Eddie isn't asking for traditional Chinese lunches, he's asking for stereotypical "American" lunches. The ingredients for those lunches would be easily accessible in 1995 Orlando (unless Florida is even odder than its national reputation). Most, if not all, of those lunches could be easily made by someone old enough to attend middle school.

 

And that isn't even going into the notion that spans different ethnic groups that children can make their own school lunches.

Perhaps his mother would object if Eddie made his own lunch, but given that she would be putting in as much effort if Eddie made his own lunch as she would "making" him a Lunchable, it's a pretty fine line on which to stand.

Moreover, Eddie can always point out to his cost conscious mother that it would be cheaper to make his own lunch than to buy a Lunchable. Plus, it shows self-reliance.

In any case, Eddie doesn't come across as unwilling to confront his parents when he disagrees with them or wants something from them (ex. Lunchables).

[arc]

But I really hated all the hip-hop stuff.

I think that's a core part of the show because it's a core part of the real Eddie Huang's identity.

[Ms Blue Jay]

As a non-white person myself, it was always much, much easier to relate to non-white people in the media, be it music, television, movies.  There were few Asian people in North American pop culture growing up, and I think for a lot of non-white people it's easy to relate to whatever other non-white culture (read "Other", "different", "out of the mainstream") we see.  Anyways, this is a long explanation for why Asian kids connecting to hip-hop (and R&B, and basketball, etc.) was very normal where I grew up.  You grow up feeling like The Other (invisible, unseen, the opposite to the mainstream) and you may tend to relate to others you see in the same position.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[jmonique]

I was confused why the parents, who were not born in the US, had American names.  I understand if they picked 'American' names, like Eddie did, but in my experience, that would be for people outside the house. I had an 'American' name but it's not what my parents used.

 

I'm assuming that's to make it less confusing and more easily digestible for the "basic" viewer. Throwing two names around, one of them "unusual" would likely lead to confusion. It could be seen as representative of an attempt to assimilate rather thoroughly, I guess..

[PRgal]

As a non-white person myself, it was always much, much easier to relate to non-white people in the media, be it music, television, movies.  There were few Asian people in North American pop culture growing up, and I think for a lot of non-white people it's easy to relate to whatever other non-white culture (read "Other", "different", "out of the mainstream") we see.  Anyways, this is a long explanation for why Asian kids connecting to hip-hop (and R&B, and basketball, etc.) was very normal where I grew up.  You grow up feeling like The Other (invisible, unseen, the opposite to the mainstream) and you may tend to relate to others you see in the same position.

 

I don't know about that.  I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and I had trouble relating to non-white (which back then, pretty much meant black) families, save perhaps the Huxtables (which I didn't watch very much) and maybe the Bankses.  They just didn't reflect my family dynamic/upbringing.  I suppose I would relate well to Jewish families on TV, but there weren't many of those back then, either.  As a pre-teen (because "tween" wasn't a term back then) and teen, I mostly watched Growing Pains, The Wonder Years, Blossom, Fresh Prince, Full House and 90210 (the REAL version, lol).  I also watched Canadian period shows like (The Road to) Avonlea (which I LOOOOOOVED).

[biakbiak]

If Eddie can ask his mother to take him to a store to buy Lunchables, he can ask her to take him to a store to buy bread.  I have yet to find a store that sells Lunchables that doesn't sell bread.Either that, or he can ask his mother to buy the individual food items that comprise a Lunchable and assemble it himself. Eddie isn't asking for traditional Chinese lunches, he's asking for stereotypical "American" lunches. The ingredients for those lunches would be easily accessible in 1995 Orlando (unless Florida is even odder than its national reputation). Most, if not all, of those lunches could be easily made by someone old enough to attend middle school. Perhaps his mother would object if Eddie made his own lunch, but given that she would be putting in as much effort if Eddie made his own lunch as she would "making" him a Lunchable, it's a pretty fine line on which to stand.Moreover, Eddie can always point out to his cost conscious mother that it would be cheaper to make his own lunch than to buy a Lunchable. Plus, it shows self-reliance.In any case, Eddie doesn't come across as unwilling to confront his parents when he disagrees with them or wants something from them (ex. Lunchables).

Of course stores that have lunchables have bread, my point was that it's not something he could just proactively do for himself without benefit of his mother buying him the ingredients and given his upbringing I imagine making his own food is a completely foreign concept. Easier for her and everyone to just buy the lunchables if it made her son feel slightly better about fitting into this new and foreign place.

[Zalyn]

That is assuming they have bread, which is a huge assumption. Seriously, I am white but I grew up in Seattle with a ton of Asian Ameican friends and bread and sandwich fixings wasn't something that many of them regularly had on hand. Not trying to say they hadn't ever seen bread but it simple wasn't a basic food staple in their homes. Udon? Kimchi? Rice? Etc. Yes, depending on their nationality but sandwich bread wasn't a staple for many. Heck, my freshman roommate (Japanese) in college thought it was weird that we had milk for cereal in our little fridge.

And that isn't even going into the notion that spans different ethnic groups that children can make their own school lunches.

This, exactly.  Not to mention that if you've never had a sandwich (which is likely) or rarely had a sandwich, there is no way to know how to make it.  In my house, sandwiches were "crappy food you took for school lunch because the other kids teased me about yummy Korean/Japanese bento lunches", and I still shudder thinking about the soggy ham sandwiches that I choked down until I stopped caring what others thought. 

 

If that wasn't a part of your culture, how would you learn how to make them?  "Sandwich bread" could even be a concept one couldn't just figure out at the store - I remember that Wonderbread was the standard (this was the 80s) and whole wheat bread was crappy, but there are still a bunch of styles and types that make no sense if you don't already know what you're looking for (food preferences are mostly shaped by parents in children).  It would be like telling a non-Asian in Japan to just go to the store and buy the stuff to make a sushi bento lunch and make it oneself.  If one relied on pop culture (remember, no Internet with Lifehacker and stuff), then it could easily be assumed that sandwiches are made by piling stuff up Dagwood-style.

 

If Eddie can ask his mother to take him to a store to buy Lunchables, he can ask her to take him to a store to buy bread.  I have yet to find a store that sells Lunchables that doesn't sell bread.

Either that, or he can ask his mother to buy the individual food items that comprise a Lunchable and assemble it himself.

 

Eddie isn't asking for traditional Chinese lunches, he's asking for stereotypical "American" lunches. The ingredients for those lunches would be easily accessible in 1995 Orlando (unless Florida is even odder than its national reputation). Most, if not all, of those lunches could be easily made by someone old enough to attend middle school.

 

Perhaps his mother would object if Eddie made his own lunch, but given that she would be putting in as much effort if Eddie made his own lunch as she would "making" him a Lunchable, it's a pretty fine line on which to stand.

Moreover, Eddie can always point out to his cost conscious mother that it would be cheaper to make his own lunch than to buy a Lunchable. Plus, it shows self-reliance.

In any case, Eddie doesn't come across as unwilling to confront his parents when he disagrees with them or wants something from them (ex. Lunchables).

I was in school when Lunchables came out; it wasn't enough to just have the same stuff that was in there, it was about the brand name.  The point of the cafeteria/lunch scene was to emphasize the social importance of fitting in, not just with the right type of food, but with the right labeling as well.  I remember discussing Lunchables with my parents, and since (as I stated above) that "food" was considered beneath my palate anyway (and I was such a loner I stopped caring when kids hounded me), I was fine with higher quality lunch meats and cheese if I were going that route.  But Eddie, who was already fighting an uphill battle for social acceptance, would have just been mocked more for appearing to be so low class that he couldn't afford REAL Lunchables.

 

Lastly, do not underestimate the position of power and responsibility held by the Asian mom.  In Japan, some mothers aggressively compete with each other to make more impressive lunches for their children, sometimes spending hours on them.  To make one's lunch oneself is really to deny Mother her role and opportunity to do good mothering.  One can try to tell Mom that "I'll make my own lunch," and she'll nod and go "yeah, yeah," then make you a lunch anyway (and it will be better than anything you could put together).  Even as an adult, when I go to my parents' house, I expect to get my hand bitten off for cooking in her kitchen because that is Mom's Territory. 

 

This may be different today (both in terms of how fit "stereotypical American sammich stuff" is and how Asian moms do lunches now), but the swag of Lunchables and the tradition of Mom packing lunches (with awareness of nutrition and status concerns) was entirely appropriate for the time it's set in. 

[scartact]

While it may not be everyone's experiences, I have a lot of Asian-American friends who are into hip-hop because of of the reasons Eddie states. I definitely hope the show finds better ways to make Eddie's interest in hip-hop come off more naturally especially cos the real Huang found a lot of solace in hip-hop.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I agree that a huge part of it was the brand. When I was a kid, Capri-Sun was the thing you had to have. My mom made me buy milk at school for years but in seventh grade she finally relented slightly but her solution was to buy those six packs of fruit punch in little plastic bottles. She said it was the same thing (meaning sweet corn syrup drinks advertised as fruit juice) but it was like giving a kid 3 crackers and a slice of Kraft cheese in plastic and saying it was the same as a Lunchable. Totally not the same in the eyes of kids!

ITA that at this point, Eddie had only been at the school a few days (and had spent most of those days eating in back with the janitor) so he probably couldn't have told his mom what was actually in a Lunchable, let alone what kind of sandwiches the kids without Lunchables were eating so he would not have been able to assemble a non-Asian lunch even if he wanted to.

As for asking for food from the restaurant, if his mom was so strict about the profit margins that she was cracking down on extra napkins and stray croutons, there was very little chance she would be okay with taking the more expensive food as his lunch.

[PRgal]

ITA that at this point, Eddie had only been at the school a few days (and had spent most of those days eating in back with the janitor) so he probably couldn't have told his mom what was actually in a Lunchable, let alone what kind of sandwiches the kids without Lunchables were eating so he would not have been able to assemble a non-Asian lunch even if he wanted to.

 

 

But can't Eddie just say "American kid" lunches?  I assume that the school in DC would have had generic, Anglo kids as well.  Lunchables might not have been a thing in DC, but Jessica should know about, say, egg salad or deli turkey sandwiches on Wonderbread, no? 

 

Note:  I mostly bought my lunch in high school.  I usually got the "hot meal" which was the school "special" but sometimes I got sandwiches.  The "thing" for some of the girls was to buy a bagel and brick cheese, then nuke everything in the microwave.  Kind of gross, looking back....we also dipped our grilled cheese sandwiches in ketchup (and added ketchup to mac and cheese).  Now THAT was good :P

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Jessica should know about, say, egg salad or deli turkey sandwiches on Wonderbread, no?

How would Jessica know about egg salad or turkey sandwiches though? That's not something she would encounter in her day to day life. My mom had no idea what meatloaf was until I had it at a friend's house in fifth grade and I came home and told her she had to make this awesome thing that I could only describe as "really good."

And despite all the commercials I saw for Stovetop as a kid, I had no idea what stuffing was (all I knew was that it came in a red box and the kids on tv liked it enough to have two dinners). It wasn't until my junior year in high school that I actually had some and that was only because we invited my boyfriend and his dad over for Thanksgiving and my boyfriend insisted that we had to have stuffing. That's when we finally bought a box of Stovetop and discovered what the kids in the commercial were raving about.

Just because people live in the same country doesn't mean they have the same base of knowledge as everyone else. When I was in college, I tutored a sixth grader who had been born here but his parents had been born in Mexico. This kid had no idea what spaghetti was (or any other kind of pasta). He had never had a milkshake before. He was bussed into a very nice school district that was mostly rich white kids who went snowboarding on the weekends so he had exposure to mainstream American culture but kids eat what their moms give them and in this case, that meant no spaghetti!

[PRgal]

How would Jessica know about egg salad or turkey sandwiches though? That's not something she would encounter in her day to day life. My mom had no idea what meatloaf was until I had it at a friend's house in fifth grade and I came home and told her she had to make this awesome thing that I could only describe as "really good."

And despite all the commercials I saw for Stovetop as a kid, I had no idea what stuffing was (all I knew was that it came in a red box and the kids on tv liked it enough to have two dinners). It wasn't until my junior year in high school that I actually had some and that was only because we invited my boyfriend and his dad over for Thanksgiving and my boyfriend insisted that we had to have stuffing. That's when we finally bought a box of Stovetop and discovered what the kids in the commercial were raving about.

Just because people live in the same country doesn't mean they have the same base of knowledge as everyone else. When I was in college, I tutored a sixth grader who had been born here but his parents had been born in Mexico. This kid had no idea what spaghetti was (or any other kind of pasta). He had never had a milkshake before. He was bussed into a very nice school district that was mostly rich white kids who went snowboarding on the weekends so he had exposure to mainstream American culture but kids eat what their moms give them and in this case, that meant no spaghetti!

 

Surely Jessica (and Louis) would have watched some television.  They speak English and back in the 80s and 90s, there weren't too many Mandarin language channels.  They likely would have a choice of perhaps two.  Unless, of course, they lived on VHS tapes and LaserDiscs.  And wouldn't the KIDS have said something?  I don't know.  Maybe I'm not seeing things from my so-called "privlege."  As I've said, I was very exposed to both my own heritage and western cultures, and ate spaghetti, pizza, burgers, fries, etc... along with various types of Chinese food.  In my circle, I don't think I know ANY CBC who didn't SEE pizza until they were in elementary school.  And anything my parents didn't know about, they would have known from me telling them.  That's why I find much of the show (so far) a bit foreign. 

 

My parents DID go to grad school here, so maybe that makes a difference.  However, even THEY find it difficult to believe that some western born kids of immigrant parents are not familiar with western cuisines (this was after I told them about some acquaintances I know from a women's volunteer group I'm with who took some kids out to the ballet.  Before the show, they had a three course meal at a restaurant.  Some of the kids had never SEEN, let alone eaten, salad.  Don't they have books at school?  Watch TV ?).    The kids are middle school aged.  However, there's ONE difference.  The kids were mostly from less privileged homes.  The Huang household seems middle class.

Edited February 9, 2015 by PRgal

[pookat]

Either that, or he can ask his mother to buy the individual food items that comprise a Lunchable and assemble it himself. Eddie isn't asking for traditional Chinese lunches, he's asking for stereotypical "American" lunches. The ingredients for those lunches would be easily accessible in 1995 Orlando (unless Florida is even odder than its national reputation). Most, if not all, of those lunches could be easily made by someone old enough to attend middle school.

And wouldn't the KIDS have said something? I don't know. Maybe I'm not seeing things from my so-called "privlege." As I've said, I was very exposed to both my own heritage and western cultures, and ate spaghetti, pizza, burgers, fries, etc... along with various types of Chinese food. In my circle, I don't think I know ANY CBC who didn't SEE pizza until they were in elementary school. And anything my parents didn't know about, they would have known from me telling them. That's why I find much of the show (so far) a bit foreign... even [my parents] find it difficult to believe that some western born kids of immigrant parents are not familiar with western cuisines

It probably does sound odd not to know what a sandwich or "typical American kid" lunches look like for those of us who grew up in certain areas, but that doesn't mean that it holds true for everyone who grew up in the US. In fact, it was actually the real Eddie Huang's experience that he he had never seen macaroni and cheese before moving to Orlando.

Eventually, we got to the macaroni-and-cheese scene. Throughout the book tour, it was my favorite scene to read because it exemplified how foreign white culture was to me. I remember the first time I saw macaroni and cheese, as a guest in my friend Jeff’s home, thinking it was pig intestines cut into half-moons hanging out in an orange sauce. Jeff found it incredulous that I didn’t know what macaroni and cheese was, but it was formative; he got a taste of macaroni and cheese from my eyes, discovering how it felt to be gazed on and seen as exotic instead of being the one gazing.

Source: http://www.vulture.com/2015/01/eddie-huang-fresh-off-the-boat-abc.html

I think this just speaks to the fact that in DC, the family interacted primarily with other new Chinese immigrants who may not have been as influenced by the dominant culture due to being so buffered within their own enclave. I think when you take that into consideration and compare his pre-Orlando life to post, it makes perfect sense. Edited February 9, 2015 by pookat

[PRgal]

It probably does sound odd not to know what a sandwich or "typical American kid" lunches look like for those of us who grew up in certain areas, but that doesn't mean that it holds true for everyone who grew up in the US. In fact, it was actually the real Eddie Huang's experience that he he had never seen macaroni and cheese before moving to Orlando.

I think this just speaks to the fact that in DC, the family interacted primarily with other new Chinese immigrants who may not have been as influenced by the dominant culture due to being so buffered within their own enclave. I think when you take that into consideration and compare his pre-Orlando life to post, it makes perfect sense.

 

He might not have SEEN mac and cheese, but he probably knew what it was.  I didn't eat mac and cheese until I was in middle school because we just didn't make it at home (thank GOD it was the real stuff and not the crap from a box made with powdery grossness).  Pasta was spaghetti and meat sauce/bolognese.  I find it sad that some immigrant parents just don't like wandering out of their own ethnic community, especially if they CAN/have the luxury to do so (like the Huangs).  That's why I thought some of what I saw in the pilot was a bit over-the-top/played up for TV. 

 

ETA: I'm not disputing the REAL Eddie's experiences, just saying that I find some of it difficult to believe/understand.

Edited February 9, 2015 by PRgal

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think even if you see stuff on tv, it depends how much the show focuses on it and how much an individual viewer pays attention. I couldn't tell you a single thing that Kelly and Brenda ever ate at the Peach Pit. I assume they had burgers and fries (and of course Laverne served pie) but despite all the scenes of them eating there, I never paid attention to the food because I didn't really care what they were eating (I was there for the ridiculous drama). The books I read as a kid didn't mention food much and I don't remember salad ever being mentioned. If they did, I skimmed right over it. I knew what salad was but my family never served it so I didn't actually eat any until high school. *

I think the larger issue is that people have different experiences so even if you knew about various foods as a kid, that doesn't mean Eddie's experience is invalid.

* I partially blame this salad thing on my love of soup because when I was a kid whenever I went to a restaurant where I was offered a choice of soup or salad, I always chose soup without hesitation. I saw other people eating the aforementioned salads and instead of wondering what it tasted like, I would think, "You fools could have had delicious soup!"

 

Edited because my OCD would not allow a missing parentheses bracket.

Edited February 9, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[biakbiak]

Yeah I can honestly say as someone who loves food unless it's a cooking show, cooking competition, or Anthony Bourdain and its ilk and 1995 those shows weren't as ubiquitous as they are now; I have never noticed what fictional characters are eating. Seriously, the only the thing that comes to mind is Seinfeld (cereal, babka, and soup) other than that I have no recollection of food on scripted shows.

Edited February 9, 2015 by biakbiak

[Zalyn]

As I've said, I was very exposed to both my own heritage and western cultures, and ate spaghetti, pizza, burgers, fries, etc... along with various types of Chinese food.  In my circle, I don't think I know ANY CBC who didn't SEE pizza until they were in elementary school.  And anything my parents didn't know about, they would have known from me telling them.  That's why I find much of the show (so far) a bit foreign. 

 

My parents DID go to grad school here, so maybe that makes a difference.  However, even THEY find it difficult to believe that some western born kids of immigrant parents are not familiar with western cuisines (this was after I told them about some acquaintances I know from a women's volunteer group I'm with who took some kids out to the ballet.  Before the show, they had a three course meal at a restaurant.  Some of the kids had never SEEN, let alone eaten, salad.  Don't they have books at school?  Watch TV ?).    The kids are middle school aged.  However, there's ONE difference.  The kids were mostly from less privileged homes.  The Huang household seems middle class.

It sounds like we grew up similarly; my mom made sure to teach us proper table manners with knife and fork in addition to teaching us chopsticks (I preferred chopsticks for everything but steak, even salad is better!), and we would alternate with Western food periodically.  We also weren't really "in" the Korean-American community (they were very obsessed with church, and my parents didn't like that scene, and being mutts we didn't fit anyway), so I got to see a lot of those kids growing up very insulated in Korean culture because they could be in Seattle.  Seeing the Chinese market flashback suggested to me that DC was the same way - it was entirely possible to be completely insulated from non-Chinese culture if the parents didn't make an effort. 

 

Two funny stories on restaurant eating:  1) a Kor-Am acquaintance of mine (standard type - played Chopin in middle school, tennis, straight A's) bragged about not knowing how to use a knife and fork as a way to demonstrate his heritage.  2) my brother had to teach his (white) friends how to use the cloth napkins and steak knives when they went out for prom dinner because they weren't taught that while he was.  So class/social status is definitely a part of it, as is the inertia and insularity of some communities in terms of food culture.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ha, Seinfeld is a great example of a show that specifically mentioned food I had never had before. I still remember that one of the recipes Elaine found in the Soup Nazi episode was mulligatawny. I had never even heard of it before. Many years later, the word popped into my head so I googled it and then promptly forgot what was in it. I had to google it again right now to see exactly what kind of soup it was.

 

It's also a good point that the Food Network was in its infancy in the early to mid 90s. I remember watching Ready Set Cook (but only for the game show aspect, not the actual food and cooking) and How to Boil Water. Watching the first few years of the Food Network was akin to watching cooking shows on PBS. It wasn't the way it is now with food shows on the Travel Channel, the Food Network, the Cooking Channel, plus network channels. There were still different types of food available and a strong food culture but it was a lot more localized. I still remember how grossed out people from outside California were when I told them about fish tacos in the early 90s. But once Rubio's and Baja Fresh expanded outside of California in the late 90s and early 2000s, fish tacos weren't weird anymore. As a previous poster pointed out, things have changed a lot in the last 20 years and a lot of food that used to be hard to find is now easily found in the suburbs and outside of metropolitan areas (I met a girl in her late 20s from Wisconsin who had never eaten Japanese food before because the area where she lived didn't have any Japanese restaurants until recently).

[idiotwaltz]

 

it was entirely possible to be completely insulated from non-Chinese culture if the parents didn't make an effort.

 

It definitely is possible - I lived through this first-hand. It wasn't so much that my parents didn't make an effort, but that they didn't have to; my suburb of Vancouver was, and is, predominantly Chinese. We ate Chinese food, watched the local Chinese channel (with VHS tapes we could rent, or because my mom was cheap, had relatives bring over from Hong Kong), and rarely associated with non-Chinese people except in school and other formal settings. I moved to Canada when I was in kindergarten, and while I did watch cartoons --- Goof Troop, Eek! the Cat, and later, The Simpsons --- I didn't actually watch North American TV until I was about 12 or 13. Dawson's Creek and Friends. I had little interest in it before then. Plus why was I watching TV when I could be doing MORE math exercises? 

 

I did eat pizza and spaghetti and salad, but like the poster above, I did not know what stuffing was until they served it at a cafeteria school lunch in high school. I also found out what pumpkin pie was, and wasn't impressed. I recall the very first time I had macaroni and cheese --- I was in Grade 6, and it did not mix well with the chocolate milk I had with it, so much so that I threw up right after and stayed away from it for years after that. I also remember trying peanut butter and jam sandwiches for the first time --- such a bizarre combination to me that turned out to work so well! 

 

So it's possible, and in very insular communities such as Chinatowns in New York and San Francisco, I can imagine that might be the case. 

 

On the topic of Lunchables, I had it, but not because all the other kids were having it. It just seemed like a better alternative to my mother's cooking, which was and still is pretty bad. I remember string cheese being all the rage though, and begging my mom to buy it. 

[PRgal]

It definitely is possible - I lived through this first-hand. It wasn't so much that my parents didn't make an effort, but that they didn't have to; my suburb of Vancouver was, and is, predominantly Chinese. We ate Chinese food, watched the local Chinese channel (with VHS tapes we could rent, or because my mom was cheap, had relatives bring over from Hong Kong), and rarely associated with non-Chinese people except in school and other formal settings. I moved to Canada when I was in kindergarten, and while I did watch cartoons --- Goof Troop, Eek! the Cat, and later, The Simpsons --- I didn't actually watch North American TV until I was about 12 or 13. Dawson's Creek and Friends. I had little interest in it before then. Plus why was I watching TV when I could be doing MORE math exercises? 

 

I did eat pizza and spaghetti and salad, but like the poster above, I did not know what stuffing was until they served it at a cafeteria school lunch in high school. I also found out what pumpkin pie was, and wasn't impressed. I recall the very first time I had macaroni and cheese --- I was in Grade 6, and it did not mix well with the chocolate milk I had with it, so much so that I threw up right after and stayed away from it for years after that. I also remember trying peanut butter and jam sandwiches for the first time --- such a bizarre combination to me that turned out to work so well! 

 

So it's possible, and in very insular communities such as Chinatowns in New York and San Francisco, I can imagine that might be the case. 

 

On the topic of Lunchables, I had it, but not because all the other kids were having it. It just seemed like a better alternative to my mother's cooking, which was and still is pretty bad. I remember string cheese being all the rage though, and begging my mom to buy it. 

 

I didn't have BREAD stuffing until I ate it at school (didn't like it), but I certainly KNEW that stuffing went inside turkey, since we did Thanksgiving at my house.  Stuffing for us was glutinous/stickey rice (knor mai), taro and some sort of Chinese mushrooms.  I still don't like that kind of stuffing.  These days, my turkey stuffing is made with quinoa, onions and sun dried tomatoes (often with apples and/or bell peppers, too). 

Edited February 9, 2015 by PRgal

[idiotwaltz]

I didn't have BREAD stuffing until I ate it at school (didn't like it), but I certainly KNEW that stuffing went inside turkey, since we did Thanksgiving at my house.  Stuffing for us was glutinous/stickey rice (knor mai), taro and some sort of Chinese mushrooms.  I still don't like that kind of stuffing.  These days, my turkey stuffing is made with quinoa, onions and sun dried tomatoes (often with apples and/or bell peppers, too). 

 

We were so un-assimilated that we didn't even bother with turkey. We just went out to a nearby Chinese restaurant and had dinner. 

 

Family friends who immigrated to San Jose are much more into Thanksgiving, but then again American Thanksgiving is always a bigger deal than Canadian Thanksgiving, or so I felt. YMMV. 

 

Right, topic ... I notice that the second brother, the kid who plays Emery, is credited as Forrest Wheeler. I wonder if he is bi-racial or adopted? In some scenes he looks bi-racial to me. He's adorable, as is the boy who plays Evan. 

[Zalyn]

We were so un-assimilated that we didn't even bother with turkey. We just went out to a nearby Chinese restaurant and had dinner. 

 

Family friends who immigrated to San Jose are much more into Thanksgiving, but then again American Thanksgiving is always a bigger deal than Canadian Thanksgiving, or so I felt. YMMV.

Thanksgiving for my family would have been a great Asian-American sitcom because we has so many bizarre things happen; it was totally a "Korean American family tries to do TG".  My mom is a great cook of all things, including turkey, but we'd just have weird disasters, partly from a feeling of obligation to do the "white American thing". But my grandma hated poultry in general, so she'd only politely nibble, which contributed to cross-cultural tension. One year, we had a power outage, so we got Chinese takeout.  Another year, my aunt did all store-bought stuff (it was gross).   Several years when my dad (Japanese/Jewish) was gone for a work trip, we'd just say "to heck with it!" and go get yummy Korean or Chinese food instead because we thought it was tastier. 

 

To get back on topic, I love the clumsy appropriation of "cowboy culture" Louis does for the steakhouse; I also get a feeling that they don't see what is served there as "real food".  It really reminded me of how we'd go through the motions and make mac 'n cheese or other "standard American fare" kind of in the same way other families might do "Mexican Night" or some other "ethnic" food for an experience.

 

(I am loving reading all the responses here - it's like decades of feeling alone and not understood is all tumbling out and finding people who understand.  Regardless of the how the show ends up going, I am so glad it's been able to provoke these great discussions!)

[looksee]

I'm a fob too and it appears the kid and I were the same age around the same time.

I was excited to watch it with my husband so he could understand a bit more of how my childhood was compared to his Canadian upbringing. Unfortunately we both found the kid obnoxious and unlikeable. Won't be watching the rest of the series.

[TrininisaScorp]

As an immigrant, I loved the lunch scenes.  This was my life (and I'm a 90s kid).  When we moved here, my mom would always pack homecooked food:  Rice, some sort of veggie (dahl, stewed beans, etc) and curry or stew meat.  I would get so embarrassed and wanted to either bring lunchables or buy my lunch in the cafeteria like all the other kids.  Mom realized I wasn't eating my lunch (like. I wouldn't want to eat it in front of other kids) and I think, while she understood, it broke her heart.  I think she was freaked out that I was forgetting my culture, but wanted me to be ok here.  Plus in my mom's mind, that's what we ate.  In terms of why I didn't go to the store and get bread myself...well, mom would have killed me for presuming I had any right to tell her what should be in her kitchen.  LOL.  It wouldn't have occurred to me that I had that choice.  We finally compromised on sandwiches, carrot sticks and fruit.  So, I totally related to those scenes.

 

Louis is very charming and likeable, as is Jessica.  You can see the love between his parents and the boys.

Edited February 11, 2015 by TrininisaScorp

[Dagny]

I used to watch old movies as a kid and figured out how to use the multiple forks and knives by watching the actors. I had no idea what to do with a dinner roll when I went to a HS awards banquet (grew up on rice, had sandwiches, but no rolls).  Weird things that you just hang back, observe and adapt.

[Maharincess]

Can we start a separate thread for the food on the show. Please!

[PRgal]

As an immigrant, I loved the lunch scenes.  This was my life (and I'm a 90s kid).  When we moved here, my mom would always pack homecooked food:  Rice, some sort of veggie (dahl, stewed beans, etc) and curry or stew meat.  I would get so embarrassed and wanted to either bring lunchables or buy my lunch in the cafeteria like all the other kids.  Mom realized I wasn't eating my lunch (like. I wouldn't want to eat it in front of other kids) and I think, while she understood, it broke her heart.  I think she was freaked out that I was forgetting my culture, but wanted me to be ok here.  Plus in my mom's mind, that's what we ate.  In terms of why I didn't go to the store and get bread myself...well, mom would have killed me for presuming I had any right to tell her what should be in her kitchen.  LOL.  It wouldn't have occurred to me that I had that choice.  We finally compromised on sandwiches, carrot sticks and fruit.  So, I totally related to those scenes.

 

Louis is very charming and likeable, as is Jessica.  You can see the love between his parents and the boys.

 

If you had a curry in roti, would that have made it a bit better?  Or maybe your mom could have gone fusion-y by using a thick, less saucy curry as sandwich filling?  A nice mix of old country and new country! :)

I used to watch old movies as a kid and figured out how to use the multiple forks and knives by watching the actors. I had no idea what to do with a dinner roll when I went to a HS awards banquet (grew up on rice, had sandwiches, but no rolls).  Weird things that you just hang back, observe and adapt.

 

My parents taught me a bit at restaurants, but I think the bulk of my table manners/etiquette lessons came from Tiffany's Table Manners for Teenagers. My mom gave me a copy when I was around 12.  Great gift for any tween or teen, even though it's really dated (even in 1991, when my mom gave it to me)!

[backformore]

I just loved calling Lunchables "white people food".  

 

I will think of that every time I see lunchables in the store. 

[morakot]

As an American growing up in Thailand, we had Thai food all the time. My sister and I went to the American school for a while and our housekeeper would pack Thai food for us every day.  As a treat on Fridays, we were allowed to buy food once a week from the cafeteria and it was so exciting to have a hot dog and some fries!

 

Our housekeeper was an amazing cook in Asian and Western food but there were times when things didn't really translate. My sister tried to describe tomato soup to her and we got something completely different: a clear chicken stock with peeled cherry tomatoes poached in it.