S04.E11: Death Do Us

[TVSpectator]

The notion of being on one's honeymoon and thinking "Hey, let's stop the swimming, sunning, and funning and call up our friends because the show is named after one of them" is very anti-honeymoon.

Technically, Nick just did save Monroe's life and allowed them to go on a honeymoon. Nothing like a quick, "Hello and thank you" to show some kind of appreciation. 

[theatremouse]

"Hello and thank you and so far still not kidnapped today, thanks."

[alias1]

Quote:

For instance, they manufactured an organic way for Juliette not to tell him. The Monroe kidnapping. Then they went and chased the guy and JULIETTE WOGED. So Nick could have seen her THEN and BAM, you have your "Juliette not telling him right away for good reason" and "She woged in front of Nick and that's how he found out."

 

Well, that's exactly what I'm talking about.  Some incident that comes about in a natural way and causes her to woge in front of him.  That would be so much more interesting than just telling Nick.  So far, I don't think they've dragged it out, either.  A lot of other stuff has happened. 

[OtterMommy]

Quote:

Well, that's exactly what I'm talking about.  Some incident that comes about in a natural way and causes her to woge in front of him.  That would be so much more interesting than just telling Nick.  So far, I don't think they've dragged it out, either.  A lot of other stuff has happened. 

 

I don't think they have dragged this out either. The audience watches this over weeks, but really how long has this been going on?

 

Juliette first woged the night Monroe was kidnapped.  It looks like, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the Tribunal rumble happened 24-48 hours after that.  

 

Monroe and Rosalee left on their honeymoon either that night or the next (my guess is the next night), so 24 hours after that.  Juliette went to see Renard while Monroe, Rosalee, Nick, and Hank were en route to the airport, so 48-72 hours after her first woge.  The next day, she meets up with Renard (which I still maintain would be a realistic thing to do in this very unrealistic situation.  All she wanted was Renard to call his mom, who caused all this in the first place) and it looks like all of the ghost episode took place over 2 days.

 

So, if my math is right, Juliette has been a full hexenbiest for 4-5 fun-filled days.

[lynny]

That she even went one whole night without telling her significant other that he could kill him, is dragged out too long. If he'd seen her woge at the tribunal, it would have been perfect. Now they have to manufacture a reason for him to see her woge again for him to find out, instead of her telling him.

 

Again, taking the supernatural element out of it, if I had some kind of disease in which I could kill the man lying naked and vulnerable next to me, and I intentionally don't tell him to the point where he doesn't find out until he sees it in action, he'd have every right to walk out on my ass.

 

I understand what you're saying, but Nick is hardly the poster boy for openness and honesty in relationships. He kept his secret from Juliette for ages (years?) even though it put her in very real danger and did, in fact, lead to her kidnapping and being attacked in her home on more than one occasion. It would be pretty hypocritical of Nick to just walk out on Juliette for keeping a secret from him.

 

That said, I don't want this to drag out either. I was actually pretty much on board with Juliette being a hexenbiest. Then I remembered that she couldn't have sex with Nick if she was. And, I like the Nick/Juliet relationship so we can't have that. So, the biest has got to go. And, if I were Juliette, I'd really want to retain my ability to blow up cars. But, I'd want to have sex with Nick more.

[FormerMod-a1]

That's what I don't understand, if it was wrong for Nick to not tell Juliette, why is it OK for Juliette not to tell Nick.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

[merylinkid]

The situation between Nick and Juliette not telling is only slightly analguous (sp?).    Nick just found out he was a Grimm and had inherited this weird talent from his family.   He knew NOTHING about what it meant when he found out.   He was even told by his AUnt to break up with Juliette.    So first he had to figure out what was going on.   Should he have told her sooner?   Yes.

 

Now, Juliette knows such things as wesen, Hexenbeists, etc. exist.   She KNOWS she can't see them.   She KNOWS Nick can.   She KNOWS they can be dangerous.   She KNOWS that there are complications in being involved in this world.   She has a lot more information about the situation than Nick did when he found out he was a Grimm.   She also KNOWS what Nick keeping things from her meant for their safety.   

 

Given all this, a character who has grown since the start of the series would tell Nick at the first reasonably opportunity.   But does she?   Nope, she goes running to Renard.   And when Renard can't fix it immediately, she STILL doesn't tell Nick.   Yeah, this will end well.   

[lynny]

That's what I don't understand, if it was wrong for Nick to not tell Juliette, why is it OK for Juliette not to tell Nick.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't think it's right for her to keep it secret. I wish she'd tell him right now. Though I do understand and agree with her not telling him while Monroe was missing. I'm saying it would be pretty rich for Nick to "walk right out on [her] ass" for keeping a secret for a few days when he kept his secret for ages.

 

And, I really don't fault Juliet for going to Renard about this either (though, as I said, I think she should tell Nick asap). But Renard is an ally, even if he's not a friend. And he is the one person that can actually help Juliet undo this thing. She went to meet with Renard specifically to tell him to get his mom to fix it. Not to control it. Not to figure out how to take advantage of it. To get rid of it. And, that seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. 

 

I can even understand not telling Nick until she has a solution that results in her getting rid of the biest. (Again, I think she should tell him. I just understand why she hasn't yet.) I don't think that she truly believes Nick would kill her with no justification. But, he may leave her. Nick does not like hexenbiests. At all. They (specifically Adalind, but also, her mother, Renard's mother, and, to some extent, Renard) have caused him a great deal of trouble and pain. She probably wants to make sure it's not permanent before she tells him. She's likely afraid he'll leave her. Even if he doesn't kill her, why would he stay with someone that he can't really be intimate with or have children with?

[johntfs]

I doubt that Nick and Juliette will have to forgo having sex, though Juliette is probably worried given her "Not tonight, dear" response to Nick last episode.  A lot of this depends on how specific the various "depowering" effects need to be.  While the Grimm books mention blood, it's quite possible that any Grimm body fluid would work.  If that is so, you'd think one of Nick's other fluids would have stopped her transformation but they didn't.  Meanwhile, the depowering of a Grimm seemed to require a hexenbiest to be depowered and then repowered, at which point she could depower the Grimm who'd depowered her.

[jhlipton]

I did see the husband being the actual killer and the case of mistaken identity, but I'm not too disappointed about.

 

Just once on a TV procedural, I'd like to have a "body burned beyond recognition" and it actually is who it's supposed to be. Just once!

 

I agree with Wu, it was murder, but I can see a court not accepting the case because Lily saved the Ghost Seeker's life. (C'mon writers; she wasn't defending herself. Lily was saving another life. )

No one knows that except the people that were there. Who's going to say otherwise? Lily might even have burn marks from where the husband was zapping her.

 

 

Couldn't we just have 3 bachelors running around hunting Wessen and hanging at the bar??

No, not even with fur. Some od us happen to like women!

[Actionmage]

No one knows that except the people that were there. Who's going to say otherwise?

 

The footage of the attack on the Ghost Seeker that was put on YouTube or the Grimm equivalent.  The only thing acknowledged was the fun quip of Renard's stating that people don't believe in monsters ( or ghosts, whichever.) That it showed the Attacker/Straton being shot from behind would lend credence to Lily's saving the Ghost Seeker.

 

ITA that a refreshing "twist" would be a procedural that had a burned body that was exactly who it was supposed to be.

[Black Knight]

I think the writers don't have a choice in "drawing out the angst." Unlike cable, the Grimm writers have to come up with 22 episodes a year. Realistically, that's going to mean stories not being paced as fast as some of the audience might like. I have my problems with the writing for this show, but the pacing of this particular plot isn't bothering me, mainly because I find what they're doing with it so far interesting. I don't need Nick to know already - for instance, the conversation Juliette is going to have with Henrietta would be completely different if Nick were there being the Grimm/boyfriend.

 

What Henrietta is doing with Juliette, the tests and such, do have a Trials of Adalind vibe and I like that, since I did enjoy that particular subplot. I tend to like anything with a fairytale vibe since Grimm has mostly gone away from that. The bit where Juliette knocked and the door opened and she found herself staring outside was very nicely done.

 

I think Nick picked up on every one of Juliette's oddities - he's just not pushing her on them. Which parallels how she knew something was going on with him in S1 but didn't have "I'll break up with you if you don't tell me" dramatics. She figured he would tell her when he was ready. Some people are like that and some relationships are like that - people who feel the need to sort things out internally first before talking to their partner about it. Other people are very much not like that at all, see it as a sign of distrust, etc. And the thing is, neither way is objectively wrong - it's a question of finding a partner who's compatible with you in that regard. Nick and Juliette have that compatibility, which is why her not telling him yet will be basically a non-issue when he finds out. But I look forward to the look on his face when he sees her woge, and I wonder if we'll see what his eyes look like from her POV when she's in woge. We've never seen his eyes yet, have we?

 

I liked the conversation with Monroe and Rosalee - it made for a little fun comedy amidst the drama. Plus, nice to see them actually get to be happy for 5 seconds.

[OtterMommy]

Quote:

But I look forward to the look on his face when he sees her woge, and I wonder if we'll see what his eyes look like from her POV when she's in woge. We've never seen his eyes yet, have we?

But do we know that she will see that? Other than the very first time we saw Adalind the very first episode of the show, she was never the least bit bothered by seeing Nick as a Grimm (and I personally tend to give shows a pass on things that happen or are said ONLY in the first episode).

I have a theory--probably a crazy one--that hexen- and zauberbiests aren't wessen, they're something else. Possibly something more akin to, dare I say it, a Grimm. They are completely unlike other Wessen with their kinetic powers and dependence on spells and they can be made and unmade, which is something that can't happen to any other kind of Wessen.

[Meredith Quill]

I seem to recall it being said that Nick's eyes look black when a wesen who has woged looks at him? However, I don't remember which episode it was in.

[SmithW6079]

I seem to recall it being said that Nick's eyes look black when a wesen who has woged looks at him? However, I don't remember which episode it was in.

 

I don't recall the episode either, but Nick was at Monroe & Rosalee's and he asked them how they knew he was Grimm. They told him his eyes go black, but black-hole like (those weren't the words they used, but that's the general idea). 

[Prevailing Wind]

Hence, the wearing of the sunglasses during the wedding...so nobody could see his (now-non-) Grimmish eyes.

[OtterMommy]

Okay, here is a random question from this episode....

 

Why is Renard wearing, if not a wedding ring, a gold band on his left ring finger?  It may have been there forever, but a friend mentioned that she had noticed it in this episode and I just rewatched it and, yes, he's wearing it.

[Hanahope]

Chalk up another member of the Why won't Juliet just tell Nick something is wrong club.  I mean really, she knows that since Renard and his mom are "good Hexenbiests" Nick's not going to automatically kill her.  Why not tell him instead of making this forced conflict?   But I do like the new character Juliet met and how perceptions keep changing.

 

I swear, everytime we get a scene with Renard alone, I keep expecting him to turn around and see Adalind and Wesley (whatever his name is - the new heir)

 

Laughed at Wu being reminded of eating the cookie and the carpet.

[mccartygirl]

We would still want Rosalee--minus the bangs.

I agree about her. I love her, she is awesome! Just can't stand Juliette. I even like Truble and her bad acting. 

[Captain Asshat]

Here's something I thought about. If Renard's mother's spell on Renard seems to be having detrimental side effects, and if her spell to re-Grimm Nick seems to have Hexenbiested Juliette, does this mean Nick is going to start experiencing some unwanted side effects of his own?

Edited February 3, 2015 by Captain Asshat

[CoderLady]

That's logical. Everything else she's done seems to be leaking. Oh, shit.

[Clanstarling]

 

Now, Juliette knows such things as wesen, Hexenbeists, etc. exist.   She KNOWS she can't see them.   She KNOWS Nick can.   She KNOWS they can be dangerous

Actually, do we know Juliette can't see them, now that she's a Hexenbeist?

 

What I remember hearing about a Grimm's eyes was that they turned silver, or mirror-y. Spent WAY too much time looking at Season 3 forum entries to see if I could nail it down, but gave up.

 

Renard's bleeding wounds looked more like stigmata to me - when he wiped the blood, it looked like the scar from the healed wound was still intact. Though it did take some concentration to just look at the wound. ;)

[shapeshifter]

...What I remember hearing about a Grimm's eyes was that they turned silver, or mirror-y. Spent WAY too much time looking at Season 3 forum entries to see if I could nail it down, but gave up....

As the self-appointed authority on the matter: I recall that to the woged wessen, the Grimm's eyes look like dark pools in which the wessen see themselves reflected.

But I don't recall whether or not we've ever seen any of the woged hexenbiests do the Whoa! look when looking into Nick's (or Truble's) eyes for the first time. That may be because the hexenbiests seem to woge mainly when they lose control in private, but I'm not sure.

[Clanstarling]

As the self-appointed authority on the matter: I recall that to the woged wessen, the Grimm's eyes look like dark pools in which the wessen see themselves reflected.

But I don't recall whether or not we've ever seen any of the woged hexenbiests do the Whoa! look when looking into Nick's (or Truble's) eyes for the first time. That may be because the hexenbiests seem to woge mainly when they lose control in private, but I'm not sure.

Ah, well "reflected" is clearly where I got "mirror-y" and probably got silver from the concept of mirror. Don't remember the dark pools at all.

Edited February 4, 2015 by clanstarling

[OtterMommy]

 

As I recall, Nick first saw Adalind woge in public as she was walking down the street (before he knew what was going on). Of course, we've established my memory isn't all that great. :)

 

Yes, Adalind was the first woge Nick saw in the first episode and Adalind did look, afterwards, if she were freaked out about it.  However, as I said further upthread, I tend to give shows on a pass on things that happen only in the pilot and are contradicted farther down the road.  

 

But, to be fair, how many hexenbiests has Nick seen in woge?  Adalind and....that's it.  Well, he's seen Sean as a zauberbiest, I think, too--but that was after it was established that Sean knew Nick was a Grimm (and Nick knew that Sean knew).  While there have been other hexenbiests on the show--Adalind's co-workers and Sean's mother, Nick never saw them in woge.  So, if/when he sees Juliette in woge, it should be unsettling to say the least.

 

 

[johntfs]

Here's something I thought about. If Renard's mother's spell on Renard seems to be having detrimental side effects, and if her spell to re-Grimm Nick seems to have Hexenbiested Juliette, does this mean Nick is going to start experiencing some unwanted side effects of his own?

 

That assumes that Juliette becoming a hexenbiest is a side effect and not a deliberate effect.  Hexenbiests tend to be somewhat ruthless.  I could easily see Renard's mom deciding that "I must seek out my grandchild, but I don't want to leave my son unprotected if Adalind comes back.  So, I'll turn the Grimm's lover into a hexenbiest to counter Adalind."

 

The fact that this episode establishes that Henrietta is already in town, fully aware of Juliette and ready to help might be evidence for the above.

Edited February 4, 2015 by johntfs

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's take speculation over to the appropriate topic please. This is for discussion of what happened in this episode. Thanks.

[TobinAlbers]

Bitsie interview that goes towards explaining Juliette's reasoning about going to Renard.

 

Honestly, I don't care how uptight Juliette was about her issues, you have shirtless, horny hot hunk of Grimm in bed next to you ready to go and you say 'Not tonight?' It's not like Nick hasn't slept with a Hexenbeist before so Juliette shouldn't worry about giving him Hexenbeist cooties.

 

And in Adalind's small defense, she never intended for Wu to get her cookie, LOL.  He was the one who snagged something that wasn't his and he paid a heavy price for it.

[OtterMommy]

 

Honestly, I don't care how uptight Juliette was about her issues, you have shirtless, horny hot hunk of Grimm in bed next to you ready to go and you say 'Not tonight?' It's not like Nick hasn't slept with a Hexenbeist before so Juliette shouldn't worry about giving him Hexenbeist cooties.

 

True, but how many times has Nick slept with a hexenbiest?  Once (I don't think Juliette as Adalind count as Juliette was not a hexenbiest....yet).  And what happened?

 

 

Still, I totally see your point...there's no way I'd push that out of my bed....

 

It still does drive me crazy that the whole blood of Grimm has not come up--there's no way Juliette did not know how Nick de-biested Adalind and, even so, Renard knows.  If there is some reason why the blood of a Grimm won't work, fine...but you need to start at square one.

[CoderLady]

This whole magic thing is fascinating. It seems like nothing ever has a straightforward effect and just like with medical treatments and drugs in the real world, the known and unknown side effects can make for some unpleasant surprises.

 

Even the original spell Adalind used had side effects -- whatever happened to those brief moments when Adalind and Nick were seeing out of each others' eyes? And when you pile more Grimm-world spells or real-world drugs on top of others, the side effects start getting crazier and possibly more deadly. Or maybe an unexpected benefit may come from this.

 

I'm enjoying this storyline. It seems rather realistic as far as things can go in a fictional world.

[TobinAlbers]

I honestly don't think Juliette knows the circumstances of Adalind's dehexing being due to Grimm blood so that's why she's running around like a chicken with her head cut off. Nick and Rosalee would know but since she hasn't told them, they can't go 'Give Nick a good bite and it'll be all good'.

 

Although I think the 'twist' coming up is that Nick's blood won't work because either-

 

1. Adalind is immune to Nick's blood since she's already been dehexed by him once and since Juliette was created by Adalind's Hexenbeist mojo she could be immune to NIck's blood too (although not Trubel's?)

2. Magically created Hexenbeists (Juliette) may not have Grimm blood as their Kryptonite

 

It's really up to the writers to craft this any way they want for maximum angst.

[OtterMommy]

 

I honestly don't think Juliette knows the circumstances of Adalind's dehexing being due to Grimm blood so that's why she's running around like a chicken with her head cut off. Nick and Rosalee would know but since she hasn't told them, they can't go 'Give Nick a good bite and it'll be all good'.

 

Even if Juliette doesn't know--which I highly doubt--we know that Renard DOES know.  He was there when Adalind told her mother what happened after Nick dehexed her.  It did appear from the episode that Renard is genuine in trying to find someway to "cure" Juliette, although can we ever be sure with Renard?

 

I'm fine with there being reasons why Nick's (or any Grimm's) blood won't work for Juliette.  However, the writers are pulling the rug out from under themselves if they don't acknowledge information that they themselves have already put out there as a major plot point.

[johntfs]

 

Still, I totally see your point...there's no way I'd push that out of my bed....

 

Still, you haven't already had that in your bed for the last six or seven years (as of the beginning of Grimm's first season, Nick and Juliette had been together for three years).  One reason Nick might figure Juliette is a little off is that she killed someone (presumably for the first time).  Specifically, she shot one of the Wesenrein with her gun.  Him giving her a little space is understandable.

 

As for Bitsie's interview, at first I didn't fully buy the whole Grimms and Hexenbiests are archenemy.  Then I remembered that in Nick's trailer there's an entire book devoted specifically to Hexenbiests.

[spaulding]

After the pillow talk and then again after the look on his face when Rosalee asked if Juliette was still having headaches, I was under the impression that Nick knows something's up with Juliette, but he is giving her room to tell him when she's ready.

 

Nick is letting Juliette have her space.  Ugh, again? 

 

Hexeniette and her stupid secrets and lies can get the hell off my TV any day now.

 

She's almost as insufferable as Wiggie from The Blacklist.  I couldn't make it past three episodes. 

 

She's been a hexenbiest for <shrug> 20 minutes, and she can already blow the windows out of a car and destroy it.  Adalind was able to do it because her baby was stolen--not become some rando dude irked her.  I can't wait for the epic hexenbiest showdown.  <eyeroll>

 

I've already forgotten most of this episode, but how can she demand that Renard do something or whatever?  Is everybody damn scared of Miss Dead Eyes?

 

Yes, wide-eyed wood, your bf, who did not kill Adalind, even after all the crap she pulled, and who goes out there and encounters a crapload of creatures and doesn't kill them unless provoked, would suddenly kill you. But hey, don't tell him you could lose control and kill him, and continue to sleep in the same bed with him. GOOD PLAN, Hexie! FAST-FORWARD you and your quips and your lies. Attempts to make her bad-ass=fail.

 

It's MUCH better to make your BF think you don't find him attractive any more and shrink away at his touch. Then act all weird and jumpy.

 

Ugh, this couple is nothing but drama.  Boring, manufactured drama.  There is absolutely nothing adult or calm about their stupid, flat relationship.

 

 

If Nick finds out Juliette is a Hexenbiest by her woging instead of her sitting him down and telling him, I will be pissed. That will be a total cop-out. At least with Wu they had to come clean and take their lumps. Juliette I'm sure will be given a total pass by Nick. "I totally thought you'd kill me, even though it makes zero sense for me to think that, based on everything I know and have seen!"

 

I'm a little pissed about how Nick and Hank handled the wesen stuff with Wu.  There was no big, dramatic reveal.  There was no babystepping like they did with special snowflake Juliette.  Wu still struggles with it, I think.

 

Also agree on suddenly derpy Nick who ignores how weird Juliette is acting. Where is the kind, sensitive, intuitive guy? Oh, I know. The writer said he needed to be clueless.

 

Being derpy and clueless is how Nick was able to have sex with Adalind/Juliette and be oblivious about Juliette's transformation.  In both situations, Nick gets the cold shoulder.

 

Give Renard a decent storyline instead of bringing more guest stars.  I couldn't believe that Renard didn't have a storyline when he got shot.  Instead, his mom did.  (Renard can't help anybody, can he?  He's an incompetant hexenbiest too, I guess.)

 

I've been watching some of the Season 1 reruns on TNT and it strikes me how much better the show used to be, although having Nick, Hank and now Wu all "in the know" didn't bother me as much as I expected. What's clear is the show never had any real idea where they were going with Renard and that's become more painfully obvious with the passing of each season.

 

It's amazing how different the show was in S1.  I loved the other characters of the show: the trailer, the background of Portland, the green imagery of the forests.

 

I wish the show would be consistent and stop expanding the Grimm universe.  It's really not necessary to know what's happening in Vienna.

 

I still miss Teresa.  Where's her spin-off show?

[hincandenza]

I can't remember when Renard told the guys he was part hexenbeast. Can someone remind me please? :)

And I definitely agree, more Renard without a shirt please... but in my house! Lol

You know... do they know he's a Hexenbiest (or technically a Zauberbiest, the male equivalent)?  I guess they must at this point since they've met his mother and would have at least a grade-school understanding of those Mendel tables for figuring inheritance of dominant and recessive genes... but all I think the gang know for sure is that Renard is a Royal, and a bastard son of a hexenbiest as well. 

 

In season 2, we the audience saw that he woged when preparing the potion to wake Juliet from her coma... but I don't know if the gang knows that he's part hexenbiest, or if he's ever woged in front of them.

[OtterMommy]

 

 

In season 2, we the audience saw that he woged when preparing the potion to wake Juliet from her coma... but I don't know if the gang knows that he's part hexenbiest, or if he's ever woged in front of them.

 

 

I can't remember how they find out he's a zauberbiest, but they do know.  THere is a scene where Nick, Hank, Monroe, and Rosalee are all having dinner at Monroe's house and Nick says the captain is a hexenbiest and Rosalee corrects him and says he's actually a zauberbiest.  After all this, at the beginning of season 3, Renard woges in front of Hank and Monroe to fight Zombie Nick.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder, when you want to talk in depth about a character, please take it to the appropriate topic - for example, the conversation on Juliette should have headed over to that topic awhile ago. Since this is last week's episode we'll leave things where they are now, but for the next episode, we will move/edit posts that stray off topic.

 

Thanks!