S04.E10: Tribunal

[ShadowFacts]

 

As for the cover up of the massacre in the woods, I don't think they really need a cover story.    All they need to put out is that there was this weird cult that liked to kidnap and kill people.   We have no idea how they choose their victims or why.   We went to arrest them, some threatened us with weapons, we feared for our safety and acted in accordance with our training.   Done deal.   Well, except for the guy whose throat was torn out.   The ones in custody certainly aren't going to tell the truth about being wesen.

 

Except I seem to recall (could be wrong) that Renard mentioned "hate group" in the press conference.  If so, then the citizens have an interest in knowing who was targeted -- gay people, black or Hispanic or Asian people, Jews, Muslims, etc.  I mean there has to be at least one curious investigative reporter in town.  I'm not suggesting the wesen-ality would be discovered, but I think those signed confessions he mentioned would be newsworthy nonetheless. 

[johntfs]

Alzheimer's & blood clots don't turn you into a killing beast which you don't have much control over yet. Juliette hasn't woged in front of Nick yet, so she hasn't had the Wesen reaction to a Grimm. What if they have a normal couple kind of fight, she loses control & woges, has a Grimm reaction when she looks at him, & attacks Nick? What if the cashier at the supermarket pisses her off & she loses it there? This is more than a case of "roller-coaster of hope and horror", Juliette is a danger to everyone until she learns to control herself when she's a Hexenbeist. Nick absolutely needs to know NOW.

 

That's true, but as far as Juliette knows, the only thing Nick can do to "help" her control her hexenbiest is to chop her head off.  That's the main reason she's going to Renard, a person who is a kind of hexenbiest and whose mother will know how to help Juliette control (or better yet, cure) herself.  It's very likely that Juliette wants to get all the facts straight about her condition before she tells Nick about it.  It's also likely that Renard, for whatever reason, will be the one to convince her to continue keeping her condition a secret.

 

Of course this all assumes that Juliette actually will continue to keep it a secret and the NBC promo guys aren't just screwing with us.

[icewolf]

I loved the Big Damn Hero moment, which my non-HD TV ruthlessly cropped. I saw Renard, half of Nick, and part of Juliette.

There you go. Not sure why Hank is so far back. The hallway is too narrow to fit all of them side by side I guess.

[possibilities]

If the promos are legit, and Juliette is hiding things from Nick while he's in town, that will be terrible, I agree. But promos have been BS so often, I don't want to 100% believe anything they say, until we actually see the episode.

[johntfs]

I could imagine them asking Renard who they hate, and him saying, "They just don't like a lot of people, okay?" 

 

And yes, Juliette can't know she'll be totally calm. Her dream really freaked her out. Her subconscious is telling her that she can freak out and rip someone to shreds, should they piss her off enough. It seems Juliette herself is afraid of how she'll react. For that reason alone, she needs to tell Nick.

 

 

Considering that Nick had Adalind in his house and didn't kill her, even after all she'd done, is proof. In fact, they had to hold Juliette back from doing something. Not only that, but his mom, who was ready to even kill Monroe, protected Adalind. Juliette has seen living proof that Nick doesn't just see a Hexenbiest and kill it. There is absolutely no good reason not to tell him. It's only to her detriment not to. 

 

I think we're reacting a little too much to the promos and not to the episodes.

 

So far, dreams aside, we've really only seen Juliette potentially cause accidental harm once - when she broke the glass.  It seemed like she figured out how to stop that and appears to have gotten a pretty decent handle on her abilities to the point of using them to precision kill the guy attacking her.  She appears to have the Woging mostly down.  Even if she is a real danger, it's probably smart for her to not confront Nick with her situation just now.  He might get upset.  Then she might get upset.  Then Nick's brain might explode out the back of his skull as hexen-Juliette tears out his larynx. .

 

Sean Renard is a male hexenbiest.  He's also a pretty levelheaded, self-controlled person.  Finally, he's the one most likely to be able to offer Juliette information on how best to control or cure her condition (since his mother effectively helped to cause said condition).  I have no problem with the idea that Juliette is getting advice from Renard while Nick and Hank are escorting Rosalee and Monroe to the airport (and staying with them until their plane leaves).  

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

Did Juliette use her telekinesis to pick her gun up and shoot the guy or did she use it to flat-out rip his skull open?

 

She totally went Scanners on his ass. 

 

The A story, with our heroes all kicking butt in their own way, was nifty. The B story, with the trial, was excrutiating to sit through. It just filler going nowhere, and went on and on and on. It was the first time I've ever been so bored that I wanted to FF through part of a Grimm ep, but I couldn't because it was on-demand. :/ Lots of good humorous moments, though, with Bud delightful as ever. 

 

But time for me to be a downer and drag the real world humorlessly into my fiction; since it was revealed that agents of the US government and military really have been torturing people, I have a viscerally negative reaction to any depiction of supposed goodguys abusing their enemies to get information. You do that, and you are no longer the good guys. Threatening the bad cop's innocent sister is *not* okay. 

 

Anyway, very glad that Juliette finally has something interesting to do on the show.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Ghost of TWOP Past

[shapeshifter]

That's fine and you're probably right. That said, can you see that not telling someone to spare them is still a legitimate human response?  It's not like Juliette is going "Nuts, I'm a hexenbiest.  Okay, I better keep this secret from Nick so I can build a house out of pastries, lure children inside and then eat them."

Hee. Love this post, and not just because I agree with it.

She totally went Scanners on his ass....

Well, it was on his head, but yes, indeed she did, and the whole group had their heads up their butts anyway, so, yeah, it might as well been his ass. And love the screen name, Ghost of TWOP Past.

[jhlipton]

Threatening the bad cop's innocent sister is *not* okay. 

I don't think they had any intention of hurting the sister.  They just wanted to have Acker believe that they would.

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

I understand that the sister did not feel she was under any threat. But our "heroes" were saying to Acker, "Do what we want, or an innocent party will suffer the consequences of your own conduct." That's what terrorists do. Taking your badge off before you do something immoral doesn't make it okay; you're still bound by common decency, or you forfeit the right to call yourself the goodguys, and you don't get to pick the badge up again and go on your merry way. 

Edited January 26, 2015 by Ghost of TWOP Past

[Shanna]

I understand that the sister did not feel she was under any threat. But our "heroes" were saying to Acker, "Do what we want, or an innocent party will suffer the consequences of your own conduct." That's what terrorists do. Taking your badge off before you do something immoral doesn't make it okay; you're still bound by common decency, or you forfeit the right to call yourself the goodguys, and you don't get to pick the badge up again and go on your merry way.

I didn't have a moral problem with it because we all know nick will never hurt that guys sister. (And even real cops are allowed to lie to you during interrogations although they aren't allowed to go quite that far). Terrorists do way more than threaten, which is why they are scary.

I had a practical problem with it in the sense that the person making threats like that has to actually be believable for it to work. I think early grimm nick, the Wesen believed he was capable of anything without his having to spell anything out. But now he has this reputation as a nice grimm...I don't how far that reputation has spread but wouldn't the cop who has been working with him know that? How well does Acker know nick? That's what I was wondering.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Shanna

[merylinkid]

If you are gonna make threats like that, eventually you have to carry one out to be believable.   Otherwise, it's just work, work, work all the time.

[evilmindatwork]

She totally went Scanners on his ass. 

 

The A story, with our heroes all kicking butt in their own way, was nifty. The B story, with the trial, was excrutiating to sit through. It just filler going nowhere, and went on and on and on. It was the first time I've ever been so bored that I wanted to FF through part of a Grimm ep, but I couldn't because it was on-demand. :/ Lots of good humorous moments, though, with Bud delightful as ever. 

 

But time for me to be a downer and drag the real world humorlessly into my fiction; since it was revealed that agents of the US government and military really have been torturing people, I have a viscerally negative reaction to any depiction of supposed goodguys abusing their enemies to get information. You do that, and you are no longer the good guys. Threatening the bad cop's innocent sister is *not* okay. 

 

Anyway, very glad that Juliette finally has something interesting to do on the show.

Completely agree with every single point. I am not sure I can continue to enjoy Grimm if Nick goes down this path without any implications for him in the future. I realize in a post-911 world we're all rah rah about hunting down the terrorists but there's a price to be paid for that as a society-- not one that I am personally willing to pay.  I don't think that whole scenario was particularly heroic but that's just me. 

[johntfs]

Completely agree with every single point. I am not sure I can continue to enjoy Grimm if Nick goes down this path without any implications for him in the future. I realize in a post-911 world we're all rah rah about hunting down the terrorists but there's a price to be paid for that as a society-- not one that I am personally willing to pay.  I don't think that whole scenario was particularly heroic but that's just me. 

 

It didn't feel heroic to me either, but it did feel necessary.  At that point if they didn't get Acker to talk Monroe would die in agony (and Bud would also be murdered).  At that point Acker's right to peace of mind about his sister's safety was frankly less important than Monroe and Bud's right to life.  I don't want Nick (or Renard or Hank or Wu) using tactics like that all the time, but this was an exceptional case, so I'm okay with them making an exception.

[MrWhyt]

I had a practical problem with it in the sense that the person making threats like that has to actually be believable for it to work. I think early grimm nick, the Wesen believed he was capable of anything without his having to spell anything out. But now he has this reputation as a nice grimm...I don't how far that reputation has spread but wouldn't the cop who has been working with him know that?

He might have a reputation as a nice Grimm, but the Grimm have been bogeymen to the Wesen forever, and it's not like he's never killed anyone. If you were locked in a room with a "nice" grizzly bear how safe would you feel?

Edited January 26, 2015 by MrWhyt

[OtterMommy]

Okay, after watching the show a second time with my husband, I have a few random questions about this episode:

 

• Since when does the Portland PD let a random woman (Rosalee) question suspects (Acker's Sister)?  That seemed strange to me the first time I watched it, especially since they brought Acker in to watch it.  I mean, if he had seen Hank or Wu doing the interrogation it would seem "real" but I don't see how he could take any treat toward his sister as credible if it wasn't going by the book (even though he had already been told they weren't playing by the rules).
• So, I still have a hard time believing that Nick would let Juliet come on their little shooting spree.  Yes, she's a good shot but, as far as Nick knows, that's all she is.  Between Wu, Renard, Super-Grimm Nick, and a very pissed-off Rosalee--plus Monroe if they got their time--I would think they would have thought Juliet's gun skills were not crucial.  Plus, she was wearing entirely the wrong shoes for running around in the forest.
• As for the hexen-scream and the gunshot..I re-watched that I think the gun shot was just someone shooting someone else nearby.  But, if Nick has Super-Grimm hearing, shouldn't he have heard Juliet' "scream" and wouldn't that clue him in to the fact that they had one more Wesen than expected (and since hexenbiests are female, it couldn't have been anyone at the tribunal.  Rosalee is obviously not a hexenbiest, so that leaves.....)
• Not only did the tribunal seem overly long, but the times in the show didn't really seem to line up right.  It was night, or at least dusk, at the tribunal while it was broad daylight in Portland.  This is something that happens frequently on Grimm and it drives me crazy--day and night seem to happen whenever and I still remember this past Christmas episode that looked like July (or at least no later than early October, which is still quite warm here) in Portland.

 

I did enjoy this episode quite a bit and I think that this season, once Nick got his Grimmness back, is shaping up to be a good one,  I just wish that sometimes the writers and directors wouldn't be so messy.

 

[iMonrey]

 

More than eating fast food over the really really old books, I was pissed that Wu was even in the trailer by himself. What the hell, Wu? This isn't the public library. Unless you're a Grimm or Nick has asked you to go there and get something for him, I don't think anyone should be just hanging out there reading up on stuff.

 

Unless there's a scene next week where they reveal that Wu broke into the trailer, it's entirely possible Nick gave him a key and allowed him to go and read up on Wesen. They did kind of throw a lot at him at once and then toss him right into the fire with this case.

[OtterMommy]

Unless there's a scene next week where they reveal that Wu broke into the trailer, it's entirely possible Nick gave him a key and allowed him to go and read up on Wesen. They did kind of throw a lot at him at once and then toss him right into the fire with this case.

 

Hank and Monroe have gone to the trailer without Nick, so I assume that one, if not both, of them have keys.  So, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Wu was given a key by somebody.

[johntfs]

Okay, after watching the show a second time with my husband, I have a few random questions about this episode:

 

• Since when does the Portland PD let a random woman (Rosalee) question suspects (Acker's Sister)?  That seemed strange to me the first time I watched it, especially since they brought Acker in to watch it.  I mean, if he had seen Hank or Wu doing the interrogation it would seem "real" but I don't see how he could take any treat toward his sister as credible if it wasn't going by the book (even though he had already been told they weren't playing by the rules).
• So, I still have a hard time believing that Nick would let Juliet come on their little shooting spree.  Yes, she's a good shot but, as far as Nick knows, that's all she is.  Between Wu, Renard, Super-Grimm Nick, and a very pissed-off Rosalee--plus Monroe if they got their time--I would think they would have thought Juliet's gun skills were not crucial.  Plus, she was wearing entirely the wrong shoes for running around in the forest.
• As for the hexen-scream and the gunshot..I re-watched that I think the gun shot was just someone shooting someone else nearby.  But, if Nick has Super-Grimm hearing, shouldn't he have heard Juliet' "scream" and wouldn't that clue him in to the fact that they had one more Wesen than expected (and since hexenbiests are female, it couldn't have been anyone at the tribunal.  Rosalee is obviously not a hexenbiest, so that leaves.....)
• Not only did the tribunal seem overly long, but the times in the show didn't really seem to line up right.  It was night, or at least dusk, at the tribunal while it was broad daylight in Portland.  This is something that happens frequently on Grimm and it drives me crazy--day and night seem to happen whenever and I still remember this past Christmas episode that looked like July (or at least no later than early October, which is still quite warm here) in Portland.

 

I did enjoy this episode quite a bit and I think that this season, once Nick got his Grimmness back, is shaping up to be a good one,  I just wish that sometimes the writers and directors wouldn't be so messy.

Taking the points in order:

 

1) From the time Renard through Acker across the room if not before, we all knew damn well that none of this stuff was going on the record.  The interrogation of the sister was for Acker's "benefit" to show him that the desperate, angry wife of the guy his fucktard buddies were going to impale and burn alive was in the room with someone he loved.  It was to credibly set up the threat to Acker's sister and force him to talk.

 

2) Juliette is skilled in self-defense (as witness her epic beatdown of the abusive Klaustreich husband in "Eye of the Beholder" in Season 3, plus scalding an Ogre and punching out a Dämonfeuer in Season 1.  And fighting zombies along with an out of control Nick early in Season 3).  She's also an excellent shot.  In truth Nick probably had more confidence in her ability to deal with Wesen in a fight than he did Wu.  Plus, if Nick and company failed and died, it's likely the Wesenrein would come after Juliette just to be hateful assholes.  The best route to safety for everyone is taking the Wesenrein all the way down.  That's more likely with Juliette supporting them than staying behind.  Plus, she knew where the place was and would likely follow them anyway.  Best if they stay together and make a plan.

 

3) Nick can hear distant sounds, but I don't think he can hear sounds outside the normal range of human hearing.  He probably can't hear dog whistles and the like (unless I've forgotten about it or something).  Also, whatever Juliette did seemed to be very tightly focused, like a beam and was probably inaudible outside of a few feet.  Aside from that, we really don't know if the attack was sonic in nature.  She might have simply been hissing with the effort of using her telekinesis to rip the guy's skull apart.

 

4) I figured we were pretty much moving back and forth in time with our heroes spending most of the day putting the pieces together and tribunal occurring late in that process.  Or maybe the Wesenrein are just really, really anal about doing their trials.  Honestly that's more likely the case given the paraphrased exchange below.

 

Leader: No, don't kill him yet!

Brother: But he's got bits of Phil in his teeth!

Leader: Don't care, we continue the trial!

Edited January 26, 2015 by stacey

[ShadowFacts]

 

Plus, if Nick and company failed and died, it's likely the Wesenrein would come after Juliette just to be hateful assholes.

 

I think they still can and may come after her.  When Nick says some of them will be stupid and then all hell breaks loose, are we sure that some didn't get away?  Even if they were all either killed or arrested, what keeps the arrested/jailed ones from putting out the word?  If everything is all hunky dory now, why the need for the police escort to the airport?  If Monroe and Rosalee are still possibly in danger, so are Juliette, and Bud.  I think maybe Juliette may want to stay biest-y for awhile, for her own safety.  Because it really wasn't smart to take a couple civilians along, I don't care if this was badge-less or not. 

[shapeshifter]

...I am not sure I can continue to enjoy Grimm if Nick goes down this path without any implications for him in the future. I realize in a post-911 world we're all rah rah about hunting down the terrorists but there's a price to be paid for that as a society-- not one that I am personally willing to pay.  I don't think that whole scenario was particularly heroic but that's just me.

TV shows were like that pre-9/11 too: The cowboys shot the Indians willy nilly with never a thought for the widows and orphans left behind. Grimm is pretty grim, although it's tempered with humor. Still, it scared my mom out of the room when I visited them a couple of years ago and watched it. I'm pretty sure the only reason I still watch is because of the charisma of most of the actors.

[johntfs]

Ottermommy your observations are dead-on. Yes, it pisses me off that Hank, Nick's partner, got relegated to the back of the crowd so they could try to make Juliette look bad-ass. There was absolutely no reason for her to be there other than the show just constantly trying to make her relevant and do what they do best,, and that is to subjugate character for plot. So that's why Nick's powers come and go. And why Juliette had to be there, so she could woge. I would have kind of forgiven it if she "outed" herself at the same time, but she didn't, so it all seemed pointless to me.

 

Like Sasha Roiz, Russel Hornsby is a pretty big, tall guy.  If he's up front, especially with Sasha Roiz, everyone behind them is effectively invisible.

 

The group is already going to be heavily outnumbered when they confront the Wesenrein.  Every person left behind makes the situation much worse and the group knows that.  It's been established that Juliette can fight and shoot.  I like the fact that there was no time wasted with a discussion about "leaving the wimmenfolk behind."

[theatremouse]

Like Sasha Roiz, Russel Hornsby is a pretty big, tall guy.

At first I read this and thought it said "Rogers Hornsby" and was thinking "did anyone have a baseball bat this episode? Infielders aren't usually especially tall..."

[johntfs]

At first I read this and thought it said "Rogers Hornsby" and was thinking "did anyone have a baseball bat this episode? Infielders aren't usually especially tall..."

Whenever I read his name I think of Bruce Hornsby and the Range.

[SmithW6079]

When Rosalee woged and jumped the bad guy, I laughed out loud. It was like a chihuahua jumping a German Shepherd dog.

I loved Juliette going full hexenbiest, but then, I have no issues with the character. I thought it was appropriate for her to go to the only other hexenbiest she knows, who's still in town and isn't trying to kill her or her friends.

I had no problem with the gang using "psy ops" on the bad guy. The bad guys aren't human, so I don't think you can hold them to the same standards. The gang has never (as far as we know) played fast and loose with human suspects.

I didn't get the impression that the Wesenrein were necessarily mainstream in the Wesen community, just like white separatists or militias or religious cults don't represent mainstream American society.

[shapeshifter]

...I thought it was appropriate for [Juliette] to go to the only other hexenbiest she knows, who's still in town and isn't trying to kill her or her friends....

Yes, but I really think the writers owed it to the loyal viewers of all seasons to give at least a throw away line acknowledging Renard and Juliette's past, spell-induced involvement. Something like Juliette saying, "I hesitated to come to you because of that thing we went through blah blah blah," or "Renard saying, I'm surprised you felt you could ask me after blah blah blah." So I guess no mention of it just means bygones are bygones? It would help if Sasha Roiz/Renard wasn't so damn sexy, no matter what he's saying or doing--which is probably why the writers didn't have the characters mention the elephant in the room.

[merylinkid]

To be fair, we only saw a promo.   We don't know for sure they don't mention the past until we see the whole scene.   But Renard's first words on the subject better be "We need to tell Nick."   Or Juliette needs to acknowledge she needs to tell him but is waiting until he gets back from making sure there is a watch on Monroe and Rosalee's house.

[johntfs]

Yes, but I really think the writers owed it to the loyal viewers of all seasons to give at least a throw away line acknowledging Renard and Juliette's past, spell-induced involvement. Something like Juliette saying, "I hesitated to come to you because of that thing we went through blah blah blah," or "Renard saying, I'm surprised you felt you could ask me after blah blah blah." So I guess no mention of it just means bygones are bygones? It would help if Sasha Roiz/Renard wasn't so damn sexy, no matter what he's saying or doing--which is probably why the writers didn't have the characters mention the elephant in the room.

 

There probably will be a mention of their past together, but it wouldn't shock me if there wasn't.  Based on the phone conversation she had with him during the season finale, I don't think Juliette likes Renard even a little bit.  She (correctly, for the most part) sees him as the source of much of the trouble that affects her and Nick.  His brother kidnapped Nick, turned him into a zombie which caused him to kill someone.  Renard was once Adalind's boss, which makes him directly and indirectly responsible for the endless torrent of shit that Adalind has rained down on Nick and Juliette.  Now Renard's mother's ritual has caused Juliette to shift species, and not to something cute like a Fuchsbau but to a nightmare witch-demon that tears out throats and explodes heads.  Making things worse is that Juliette was magically roofied into having an obsessive sexual desire for Renard.  She probably has a whole pornographic library of fantasies and visions from that time of herself and Renard fucking each other to death, which isn't hot to her so much as horribly humiliating.

[Blue Plastic]

It would help if Sasha Roiz/Renard wasn't so damn sexy, no matter what he's saying or doing--which is probably why the writers didn't have the characters mention the elephant in the room.

Hee, hee!  I know!

 

Seriously, though, that was a weird scene.  Considering what they went through in the past, on top of the fact that her current problem was partially caused by Renard's mother, Juliette seemed a tad too comfortable just sauntering into Renard's place like that.  IMO she didn't look all that dismayed to be there.  In fact, she almost appeared to be simpering and for a minute I was trying to figure out if it might be Adalind in disguise again.

[CoderLady]

To me she looked embarrassed and unhappy, and not knowing what to begin to say. Simpering requires at least a bit of a sly smile, which if she had been Adalind wouldn't have been a stretch. That girl's default expression is "scheming -- watch your back."

 

ETA: Plus everything johntfs said.

Edited January 29, 2015 by CoderLady

[Ghost of TWOP Past]

The gang has never (as far as we know) played fast and loose with human suspects.

 

However, the show has played fast and loose with the idea of whether or not wesen are human. Monroe and Rosalie? Clearly, yes. It's been established that wesen are like humans, in that some are good and some are bad, just like people. Therefore, it seems to me that they should be treated, ethically, just like humans. 

[johntfs]

The closest we've come to seeing Juliette treat Wesen was that business with the "possessed" child in season 3.  Even there she simply applied the knowledge she had of parasites to help recognize a solution when it appeared.  Sedating someone already unconscious doesn't really count.

 

Really the best example of Juliette "treating" a true Wesen was with the wife-beating Klaustreich. In that situation, Juliette applied the controversial therapy of "comprehension through pugilation" AKA "beating some sense into someone" by applying multiple blows to the head and groin followed by vigorous kicks to the back and body.

Edited January 30, 2015 by johntfs

[Actionmage]

It does bother me when I see there are some who think Juliette is able to treat wesen, because they are seen as some sort of animal. They are not animals. Saying they are animals dehumanizes them and therefore makes it okay to "play fast and loose with the rules."

 

Speaking for myself only? When I think that Juliette should be able to contribute her medical knowledge, via her veterinary skills, it is because they train longer than "regular" MDs, and that they have a buttload on sciences they are required to learn. ( link to entrance requirements for a RL vet hopeful: http://www.aavmc.org/data/files/vmcas/prereqchrt14.pdf, with the first being Biology/Zoology.)  It is not reducing or dehumanizing them on my part. It is acknowledging that Juliette brings skills and talents and knowledge that could be helpful, like the period that Rosalee was out-of-town to help her aunt.

 

However, the show has played fast and loose with the idea of whether or not wesen are human. Monroe and Rosalie? Clearly, yes. It's been established that wesen are like humans, in that some are good and some are bad, just like people. Therefore, it seems to me that they should be treated, ethically, just like humans.

 

Respectfully, I disagree with the fast and loose with wesen are human. Burkhart and Griffin have stated to many folks that same 'some are good, some are bad' sentiment. There may be a question about the blue alien couple and the Volcanalis, but even Ryan the wannabe-Grimm leech wesen was treated like just another perp. Nick, Hank,and sometimes even Renard, prefer to go "by the book." As we saw when Hank and Nick visited the prison in "To Protect and Serve Mankind", there was a staggering amount of wesen represented in the make-up of inmates and there are wesen in  various parts of the law enforcement community ( the jail matron, the arson inspector, the defense counsel, and the federal agents we've seen.) There are going to be wesen bad guys who go Joker and want to watch the world burn( the jagerhund hunting the resistance fuchsbau, CinderellaBat, the Rumplestiltskin creature.) Nick is going to have to decide what role will help his community more- cop or Grimm? I think this arc with the tribunal is just testing the waters of this bigger part of Nick's Grimm story.

 

As for  being treated ethically, the show just brought up the question: whose ethics? Wesen being shown respect in the wesen community has been shown to be hard to nearly impossible if you aren't a predator-type of wesen, very much a "might makes right" mindset. This has been shown from Season 1 and the open distaste of bauerschwein by blutbaden. 

 

It really is a good, meaty story to try and tackle. I just don't know if the folks who brought us the Juliette coma and Adalind in HallucinationLand can do it justice.

[Shanna]

But people are animals really. A lot of vet knowledge translate to treating people, it's just not legal. And human drugs and pet drugs overlap as well. Her general science knowledge is useful for pets and people, though she would not be the same as a regular doctor. Wound care, stitching, giving shots - she would be a logical person to help with these kinds of things. Rosalee is needed for the more magical Wesen related maladies - the more Wesen side of things. Juliette would be treating the human side.

[shapeshifter]

...They didn't even call the wesen tribunal, or whatever, to deal with him. They took the law into their own hands.

I could see why they might do that in this one instance in which Monroe is about to be killed, but this Weisenrein business has been going on for awhile, and I don't recall the tribunal ever having been consulted. I guess the writers forgot about the tribunal??

About Juliette's vet expertise being applied to sick wessen or not: I just thought it could be a heartwarming story for her to help a thuggish wessen who had something wrong with his tail--a take-off on the story of the lion with the thorn in his paw that was removed by the mouse.

[johntfs]

I could see why they might do that in this one instance in which Monroe is about to be killed, but this Weisenrein business has been going on for awhile, and I don't recall the tribunal ever having been consulted. I guess the writers forgot about the tribunal??

About Juliette's vet expertise being applied to sick wessen or not: I just thought it could be a heartwarming story for her to help a thuggish wessen who had something wrong with his tail--a take-off on the story of the lion with the thorn in his paw that was removed by the mouse.

 

No, there was mention of the Wesen Council and it was stated that the Wesenrein was illegal.  However, it was also mentioned that there were a lot people on the Council who supported the Wesenrein's beliefs.  Figure it's kind of like the South prior to the Civil Rights movement.  Sure it's not legal to lynch black people, but there were plenty in law enforcement who were happy to look the other way (or even participate) when it happened.  Calling in the Wesen Council might have brought in at least as many allies for the Wesenrein as enemies.

 

The lion with a wounded paw story could still be done.  It's just that in this case the "mouse" is a gun-toting, pot-swinging head-sploding witch-demon who only appears to be a mouse.

[Actionmage]

The lion with a wounded paw story could still be done.  It's just that in this case the "mouse" is a gun-toting, pot-swinging head-sploding witch-demon who only appears to be a mouse.

 

It already has; in S1E12 " Last Grimm Standing". Monroe pulls bone/metal/ a nail (specific metal) out of his neighbor's hand. Not that it couldn't pop up in another story. 

[Ottis]

I love anal-retentively dedicated the Wesenrein were to observing the forms of their "trial."

 

 

This. I was howling by the end, because it just went on and on. Such a plot device. The dude who spikes and burns people first has to follow the rules.

 

That said, I did enjoy the team taking down the bad guys, and the little bits of humor ("that guy is my chirpractor!').

[lynny]

But from what we know, their physiology is different. They don't react to human drugs the way humans do. Even the illegal drugs they take are different. So, like, she would not at all be a logical person to treat them, since she wouldn't know what drugs to give them as she's "stitching them up," etc. Giving shots? How would she know what shot to give them for what they have? What if their veins are different? What if they don't have veins? What if the way they process everything is different? Juliette's entire "help" during the zombie thing? Was to hold them down so Rosalee could administer the shot.  And what happens if something goes wrong as she's stitching them up? Oopsie? I guess I hit something that I didn't know you had? Your blood is different, so I don't know how to stop it. Some of your organs are in different places, so I don't know what I'll hit! 

 

They could have two hearts, and if Juliette is unfamiliar with how they're built, she could hit something during one of her blind explorations. 

 

Rosalee knows their physiology. "Wesen" maladies are simply maladies. Just as a "human" doctor knows "human" maladies. Wesen get sick in a different way than a regular person would. Hell, they could be under a spell, and Juliette wouldn't know, She could think the symptom is a regular human symptom, but it's the result of something exclusive to wesen. The reason Rosalee knows what to give them is because she knows what their insides look like. Juliette doesn't. She could do diddly squat without Rosalee there. And Rosalee would be the first to tell you she would never try to care for a sick animal. Because she doesn't know THEIR physiology.

 

Someone could have a lot of schooling, but it's useless if what they're confronting has nothing to do with their area of study.

 

 

They have established that Wessen physiology does react differently to some drugs/herbs than regular humans. But the other stuff? I'm pretty sure it's been firmly established that a Wessen's "insides" are the same as a human's. There's no lack of veins or two hearts or any of that stuff. I mean, they die all the time on this show, some of them violently, and none of the medical examiners involved in those cases are saying, "Hey, where's this guys kidney??"

 

The other thing is, I don't think we need to worry about Juliet becoming a Wessen doctor. She hasn't been, and I see no evidence that they're going there. As previous posters have said, a vet's knowledge and a doctor's knowledge have vast amounts of overlaps, and, therefore she can be very useful in diagnoses and other things like giving shots and stitches. But, no one is saying she's going to be doing surgery on anyone. (Though if TV has taught me anything, it is that vets make very good doctors when you are in a pinch and need a bullet removed on the sly.) The very, very few times that they have shown her using medical knowledge, it has completely made sense and could have applied whether she was a doctor, vet, nurse or just read a lot. I don't see how her being a vet in any way diminishes Rosalee as the person who understands spells.

 

I will say that I was getting very aggravated with Nick, Hank & Renard taking all that time to "educate" Wu, especially getting Bud to woge. I get why they did it. But, it seemed to be a bunch of needless time when Monroe was in very real and immediate danger. I also don't understand what the heck happened to that dude Renard sent out to look for the bad guys. Did that ever pay off? 

 

Bud was my hero tonight. He was such a hero, that I thought for sure they were going to kill him and had my eyes closed when the gang entered the clearing because I thought they were for sure going to cut his throat. Bud was so brave and his line about how Nick would have a field day was pure gold. I also completely loved the little nod Monroe gave Bud when they asked Bud how long he knew Monroe and Bud just looked at Monroe as if to ask him what to do. That nod from Monroe gave Bud permission to tell the truth and try to save himself. And, then Bud just started babbling nonsense and awesomeness. Love.

Edited February 2, 2015 by lynny

[ShadowFacts]

Bud was very impressive and I feared for him, too.  I still do because if Monroe and Rosalee are still considered to be in some danger and need a police escort to the airport, then so is Bud.  Those lowlives who survived, were arrested and confessed will not suddenly go silent and be reformed.  They'll be talking to other prisoners and to their families who visit.

[Actionmage]

I also don't understand what the heck happened to that dude Renard sent out to look for the bad guys. Did that ever pay off?

 

Not on screen in the episode as aired. I kept expecting that gent and some buds to have infiltrated the robe-and-masks group and would have started the fight slightly before Nick and Co. got to the scrum. The dropping of actually interesting plots is maddening.

 

And, then Bud just started babbling nonsense and awesomeness. Love.

 

Yep, that's Our Bud, full of nonsense and awesome! *g*

Edited February 5, 2015 by Actionmage