Hallmark Movies: Small Town Royalty Magically Celebrating Rekindled Love! - General Discussion

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

So much chewing___ going on over there at Y&R!

[Featherhat]

On 10/25/2024 at 6:05 PM, Irlandesa said:

I wonder if they're counting stuff they're creating for Hallmark+.  I don't but I could see them incorporating everything they produce into one bucket.

 

 

Well if we count Hallmark+ it's one movie, one of the Cherry Lane sequels. And if we're talking non Christmas movies it's one of the Groomsmen movies also on Hallmark+ so it's still crumbs even behind a paywall. I would say it's because Wonya Lucas stepped down but they made the announcement of more LGBT+ content coming in 2024 *after* she left. 

Maybe it's the political climate in an election year but it's depressing. 

Hallmark hasn't had stellar ratings so far this year: 

Scouting for Christmas Hallmark 0.07 1.13m

Holiday Crashers Hallmark 0.10 1.55m

'Twas the Date Before Christmas Hallmark 0.11 1.19m

And this is with mostly their newer, slightly younger stars, apart from Tamera Mowry. 

I did enjoy the friendship in Holiday Crashers, I thought that was the best part and it was definitely a Hallmark movie which passed the Bechdel test and the sexy lamp test which doesn't always happen. I thought the side romance between Bri and the valet was cuter than the main romance with Lyndsey Fonseca. 

[Irlandesa]

If the ratings aren't great this early for the Christmas movies, maybe this will end the experiment of starting the holiday movies in mid-October. 

[Featherhat]

19 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

If the ratings aren't great this early for the Christmas movies, maybe this will end the experiment of starting the holiday movies in mid-October. 

Maybe but this is also the company that does Christmas in July so....

But it's interesting that the movies in the run up to the start of C2C did better than the official kick off. Mid October really is too early IMHO. Add to that that there seems to be a lot of paint by numbers going on and it's not surprising everything is quite low. I'm sure it will pick up closer to December though. 

[Lisa418722]

Hallmark should have created a Christmas 24/7 year-round channel rather than Hallmark Drama/Family.  Some people love Christmas 365 days a year.  I like Christmas movies, but not 365 days a year.  I like to be able to start seeing Christmas movies after Thanksgiving, but Hallmark could at least start them after Halloween.  

[Orcinus orca]

I have the feeling that bringing in new, younger talent is a move to bring in younger viewers.  And honestly, until they change their old, extremely stale formulaic scripts that isn't going to happen. 

Younger viewers are an audience that have grown up on radically different entertainment and social media.  Their world is way different than the Hallmark Housfraus - they embrace diversity and have a wide range of interests that are definitely not addressed in Hallmark movies.  My Gen X niece thinks Hallmark is quaint and terribly boring.

Edited October 28 by Orcinus orca

[Maelstrom]

On 10/24/2024 at 7:37 AM, MissyPoo said:

I remember seeing the casting director credited in so many movies and her removal explains the leads they've been trying to push lately (like Hunter King, just why?).

I've seen Penny Perry's name on so many things I swear she does casting for all of Vancouver. The span of her career is incredible. (I'm with you on HK. And sadly, she's still miles better here than she was on Y&R).

On 10/24/2024 at 8:09 AM, Featherhat said:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/25248682/perry-hallmark-lawsuit.pdf

Thank you for posting this, featherhat. I read through the entire thing and holy shit, Hallmark is rotten to the core behind this cutesy sweet image they project. The harassment she endured is mind-blowing. I hope Ms. Perry wins in court and takes the company, or at least the current crop of executives, for every penny. Fuck you, Hallmark. (Why can't we have nice things? Why does everything end up turning out to be toxic and abusive? First figure skating, now Hallmark. Ay carumba.)

[Makai]

I took a really long break from Hallmark and was thinking about checking out some of the Christmas movies and don’t have a peacock subscription at the moment. Does anyone know if Hallmark+ is a viable alternative to watching on cable or is it as pointless as HMN?

On 10/24/2024 at 8:09 AM, Featherhat said:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/25248682/perry-hallmark-lawsuit.pdf

There's quite an age range between the actors mentioned here as well. 

I haven’t had a chance to read it yet but am wondering if she mentions the blatant racist and homophobic casting that has been well documented for years. When I saw they were being sued over casting discrimination, I was only surprised that it was age discrimination. 

[MissyPoo]

2 hours ago, Makai said:

I took a really long break from Hallmark and was thinking about checking out some of the Christmas movies and don’t have a peacock subscription at the moment. Does anyone know if Hallmark+ is a viable alternative to watching on cable or is it as pointless as HMN?

 

It's basically HMN, just rebranded with the new name and some added shows/movies (that may eventually make their way to their YouTube channel for free at times).

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, Makai said:

Does anyone know if Hallmark+ is a viable alternative to watching on cable or is it as pointless as HMN?

I read somewhere that some of the new movies have shown up on the streaming service but I don't know if that's the plan for all of them or just a select few.

3 hours ago, Makai said:

I haven’t had a chance to read it yet but am wondering if she mentions the blatant racist and homophobic casting that has been well documented for years.

I've only read a bit of it but that's not relevant to her lawsuit which is about her feeling that she was fired because of ageism.  She only brings up statements about the actors to support her claim that Hallmark has something against older people. She's not claiming it has anything to do with her race or sexuality.

But the issue that has been documented for years is about non-white and LGBTQI+ characters, not casting.  There have been quite a few gay and lesbian actors who have been cast in Hallmark movies.  The issue is they typically play straight characters. 

 

[Notabug]

10 hours ago, Makai said:

I took a really long break from Hallmark and was thinking about checking out some of the Christmas movies and don’t have a peacock subscription at the moment. Does anyone know if Hallmark+ is a viable alternative to watching on cable or is it as pointless as HMN?

I haven’t had a chance to read it yet but am wondering if she mentions the blatant racist and homophobic casting that has been well documented for years. When I saw they were being sued over casting discrimination, I was only surprised that it was age discrimination. 

The lawsuit itself was brought by a woman who worked for Hallmark for many years who felt she was forced out when a new regime came into the company.  I think she worked as a casting director, she was not on-air talent.  She was in her mid-late 60's and claimed that, on multiple occasions, executives remarked that she was getting old and wondered when she was going to retire.  She was eventually fired despite what she says were stellar annual reviews just months earlier.  She brought up the actresses in terms of conversations she witnessed at meetings where the execs singled out a couple of the older actresses as getting to be too old for lead roles on the channel and the need to find younger leading ladies.

So, the crux of the issue is whether she was fired due to ageism.  The actresses named and the brass' remarks about them were meant to buttress her claim although, when it comes to casting TV movies, I could imagine Hallmark's lawyers could claim that it is not relevant to the plaintiff's situation.

I don't believe that either of the actresses singled out in the lawsuit have commented one way or another on any of it.

Edited October 28 by Notabug

[Badsamaritan]

I don't know who is lying to these HM execs that young women are consistently watching their channel. I don't believe they have ever been the audience, and thinking that you can bring them in just by throwing a couple inexperienced peers into a romance movie and they'll come running is really something. These are young people raised on social media, nothing about the HM formula is gonna appeal to them in large numbers. No diversity? No kissing until the last 2 minutes? I wish we knew who these completely out-of-touch execs are, because they need to be snapped back to reality. 

[Irlandesa]

42 minutes ago, Badsamaritan said:

I don't know who is lying to these HM execs that young women are consistently watching their channel. I don't believe they have ever been the audience, and thinking that you can bring them in just by throwing a couple inexperienced peers into a romance movie and they'll come running is really something.

They are basing it on data analysis.  It doesn't mean their analysis is accurate or their solutions the right ones.  And Hallmark Christmas movies have done very well for cable and even defied industry trends.  I'm guessing Hallmark hopes that younger people will watch them with the older people in their lives and get hooked on them.

But the truth of the matter is that even people in their late 40s, 50s and 60s don't necessarily only want to watch movies about people in their late 40s, 50s and 60s.  I believe their audience has always been older than the people portrayed in their movies. The brand of these movies is usually women in their early to mid-careers with no children or younger children.  A woman in her 50s won't be able to pull that off at some point.  They already stretch things a bit with men and women in their 40s playing these parts. 

Edited October 28 by Irlandesa

[Orcinus orca]

45 minutes ago, Badsamaritan said:

These are young people raised on social media, nothing about the HM formula is gonna appeal to them in large numbers.

Exactly what I said upthread.  The people (mostly women, I imagine) will age out and Hallmark will be left without a reliable audience.

[geekgirl921]

On 10/24/2024 at 7:37 AM, MissyPoo said:

Wow, that's definitely a blast from the past! I remember Hallmark used to show that 24/7 back in the early days.

Nice to see some of my faves shown. My DVR is plentiful and happy right about now. :-)

I really enjoyed this one. I liked the chemistry between Tamera and Carlo and I even enjoyed the bonus that she had two guys after her at one point (seemed slightly thrown in, but it was one of my fave tropes so I ate it up). I liked the West Side Story joke as well. This was my first new movie of the year and it didn't disappoint for me.

 

Agree with both of you guys. I remember seeing the casting director credited in so many movies and her removal explains the leads they've been trying to push lately (like Hunter King, just why?).

It's also funny she didn't mention any of the leading men like James Denton and Victor Webster who are still getting leading roles and deemed hunks with no issue. Paul Campbell (one of my faves) is even up there. And interestingly enough, Allison Sweeney is even older than Lacey, I believe, but didn't get mentioned. They just need to stop writing ingenue parts for their actors and let them be more natural. There are a ton of stories and approaches they could be using while still keeping the tropes and coziness in the movies (the same thing they could have done with their book line, which they also flubbed).

The VP also needs to check the audience demo because clearly she doesn't know the highest age range for the channel's fans.   

 

 

One of my least favorite movies was the Jane Austen one that Alison Sweeney was in. She was trying to play an ingenue and was awful. First, she is too old for ingenue parts and second, she has never been an ingenue type actress even in her early days!

[MerBearHou]

32 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

One of my least favorite movies was the Jane Austen one that Alison Sweeney was in. She was trying to play an ingenue and was awful. First, she is too old for ingenue parts and second, she has never been an ingenue type actress even in her early days!

Yes!!!  With all of this conversation about the actresses, this movie kept coming to mind but I couldn't place it -- Alison was a silly, silly woman in this movie.  Her ponytail, her giggling, her scuttering around, her childish behavior.  It was so, so wrong for her and I was embarrassed for her.  Yes, lots of Jane Austen's women behave that way but this role was a trainwreck for an actress I like very much.  A perfect example of trying to force "ingenue".

Edited October 28 by MerBearHou

[anniebird]

38 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

Yes!!!  With all of this conversation about the actresses, this movie kept coming to mind but I couldn't place it -- Alison was a silly, silly woman in this movie.  Her ponytail, her giggling, her scuttering around, her childish behavior.  It was so, so wrong for her and I was embarrassed for her.  Yes, lots of Jane Austen's women behave that way but this role was a trainwreck for an actress I like very much.  A perfect example of trying to force "ingenue".

But never the heroine.

[Maelstrom]

7 hours ago, Notabug said:

The lawsuit itself was brought by a woman who worked for Hallmark for many years who felt she was forced out when a new regime came into the company.  I think she worked as a casting director, she was not on-air talent.  She was in her mid-late 60's and claimed that, on multiple occasions, executives remarked that she was getting old and wondered when she was going to retire.  She was eventually fired despite what she says were stellar annual reviews just months earlier.  She brought up the actresses in terms of conversations she witnessed at meetings where the execs singled out a couple of the older actresses as getting to be too old for lead roles on the channel and the need to find younger leading ladies.

Penny Perry is apparently in her late 70s, with serious health issues, and has been the main casting director for Hallmark for over a decade now (I remember seeing her name credited on almost every movie of theirs). Sadly, this lawsuit is about so much more than just being told she was too old. I'm paraphrasing a lot here, but essentially - after years of giving her glowing reviews - the Hallmark brass

• A) deliberately made her working life difficult/impossible by not giving basic accommodation to her physical disabilities (like having a handicap accessible building)
• B) gave her more and more responsibilities while cutting her out of crucial meetings and such, eventually forcing her to report to a coworker with the same level of seniority as she had when the VP refused to interact with her
• C) tried to force her to take a pay cut and demotion and sign an NDA
• D) harassed her when she refused to immediately go along with that plan
• E) forced her out of her job while she was in the hospital due to her health problems flaring up from the stress they'd put her under
• F) and finally, started a smear campaign against her and essentially got her blacklisted in the industry so she can't find another job.

A sample from the lawsuit:

Quote

34. Ms. Perry suffers from several serious health conditions of which Hallmark was fully aware. First, Ms. Perry has been coping with relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis (“RRMS”) since in or about 2001, which went into remission in or about 2010. The remission occurred due to chemotherapy Ms. Perry was undergoing for breast cancer, following her double mastectomy and radiation treatment in 2007-2008. Ms. Perry’s MS symptoms returned after Lisa Hamilton Daly unleashed her reign of terror against Ms. Perry and she was required to report to Mr. Pope, who was her equal.

35. Due to Ms. Perry’s RRMS, she is unable to engage in certain daily activities. In particular, Ms. Perry struggles with her equilibrium and is prone to imbalance, muscle stiffness, and related symptoms. Ms. Perry also is legally blind in her left eye. Due to these symptoms, Ms. Perry can experience falls and injury, and reduced activity participation.

36. The Hallmark building where Ms. Perry works has a non-functioning handicap elevator. For years, Ms. Perry asked Hallmark to accommodate her by having the handicapped elevator repaired. While working under Michelle Vicary, Ms. Perry was given a key card to enter from the garage. Then, after Lisa Hamilton Daly came on board, Ms. Perry’s access card was taken away from her – without any explanation. After her card was taken away, and she was forced to endure the humiliation of being denied regular access to the office due to her disability, Ms. Perry called Mr. Hodgkinson to ask for her access card to be restored, and he refused. Since that time, Ms. Perry had to sit and wait for a security guard to buzz her into the main building lobby. If there was no security guard available, Ms. Perry would have to wait for someone to help her, since the stairway in front of the Hallmark building was too steep for her to walk up and down, and at an angle, and only had one handrail. The limitations imposed by Hallmark essentially trapped Ms. Perry in the building, and she was only able to leave, or even go to lunch, if someone drove her from the garage.
37. Due to Hallmark’s failure to accommodate Ms. Perry and failure to have her handicapped access restored, there were times Ms. Perry could not go to lunch with other Hallmark employees because she could not go down the front stairs. These simple, inexpensive, and reasonable accommodations were not provided to Ms. Perry . Indeed, they were withheld from her by Ms. Hamilton Daly to pressure Ms. Perry to quit.

38. The humiliation of Ms. Perry by Hallmark extended beyond the handicap elevator. On or about February 28, 2024, management at the Hallmark building thought there was a fire in the garage. Instead of helping Ms. Perry out of the building when everyone started filing out, or otherwise accommodating Ms. Perry, Hallmark subjected Ms. Perry to humiliating and differential treatment from her coworkers. Ms. Perry was unable to take the handicap elevator, since it was not working, and no one was there to help her down the stairs, so she had no choice but to take the regular elevator down to the lobby. From there, she was not able to take the stairs outside to leave the building due to her health conditions. Hallmark’s representatives put Ms. Perry in a position where she was told that she would be “carried down” outside, in front of her coworkers, if she was unable to exit the building on her own.

It's all even more unbelievable when you take into account the happy wholesome image Hallmark loves to project. 😡

[bankerchick]

I watch for the handsome men.  Yes, I like a good story and there are some actresses who will keep me from watching, but as a rule, I watch for the men.  My rule of thumb has generally been that as long as they're as least as old as my son (currently 35) I was ok with it.  Unfortunately, it appears that this is getting more difficult as they move on with their younger casts.

[Acmeproducts]

6 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

One of my least favorite movies was the Jane Austen one that Alison Sweeney was in. She was trying to play an ingenue and was awful. First, she is too old for ingenue parts and second, she has never been an ingenue type actress even in her early days!

She played the schemer as Sami in her early days.

They should have rewritten the character for her.

[norcalgal]

23 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Penny Perry is apparently in her late 70s, with serious health issues, and has been the main casting director for Hallmark for over a decade now (I remember seeing her name credited on almost every movie of theirs). Sadly, this lawsuit is about so much more than just being told she was too old. I'm paraphrasing a lot here, but essentially - after years of giving her glowing reviews - the Hallmark brass

• A) deliberately made her working life difficult/impossible by not giving basic accommodation to her physical disabilities (like having a handicap accessible building)
• B) gave her more and more responsibilities while cutting her out of crucial meetings and such, eventually forcing her to report to a coworker with the same level of seniority as she had when the VP refused to interact with her
• C) tried to force her to take a pay cut and demotion and sign an NDA
• D) harassed her when she refused to immediately go along with that plan
• E) forced her out of her job while she was in the hospital due to her health problems flaring up from the stress they'd put her under
• F) and finally, started a smear campaign against her and essentially got her blacklisted in the industry so she can't find another job.

A sample from the lawsuit:

It's all even more unbelievable when you take into account the happy wholesome image Hallmark loves to project. 😡

I'm not sure how it would work as a tactic  (I'm not in PR or marketing) but perhaps Penny's lawyers should put the lawsuit's allegations on FULL BLAST in all kinds of media  - most esp. because the holidays are coming soon and that would maybe hit Hallmark the hardest.  

[geekgirl921]

On 10/28/2024 at 6:20 PM, Acmeproducts said:

She played the schemer as Sami in her early days.

They should have rewritten the character for her.

Yes, I used to watch it when she was on it. She was never the fresh faced, ingenue type.

[Acmeproducts]

53 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

Yes, I used to watch it when she was on it. She was never the fresh faced, ingenue type.

She was so good playing Sami.

[Badsamaritan]

20 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

Yes, I used to watch it when she was on it. She was never the fresh faced, ingenue type.

Exactly. It's one of the reasons why I cannot abide her Hannah Swenson movies, they have her acting way younger than her age and it's a serious disconnect for me. 

I liked her one Christmas movie with I think Luke Bryant where she was a widowed mom. Her character wasn't acting flighty or immature so I enjoyed it.

[GeorgiaRai]

1 hour ago, Badsamaritan said:

I liked her one Christmas movie with I think Luke Bryant where she was a widowed mom. Her character wasn't acting flighty or immature so I enjoyed it.

Agreed.  (She also had a cameo in another of the "Time...to Come Home for Christmas" movies as the same character.) 

She's not my least favorite but more often than not I don't care for her characters/roles.

[Acmeproducts]

4 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

Exactly. It's one of the reasons why I cannot abide her Hannah Swenson movies, they have her acting way younger than her age and it's a serious disconnect for me. 

I liked her one Christmas movie with I think Luke Bryant where she was a widowed mom. Her character wasn't acting flighty or immature so I enjoyed it.

I actually like her Hannah Swenson movies. They are not great art, but they are fun. 

[geekgirl921]

I don't mind the Hannah Swenson movies. I really liked the ones where she did the podcast. 

[Acmeproducts]

20 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

I don't mind the Hannah Swenson movies. I really liked the ones where she did the podcast. 

Which one was that?

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, Acmeproducts said:

Which one was that?

Those were Chronicle Mysteries

[Badsamaritan]

The Hannah Swensen characters are too over the top for me. The mom is extremely irritating and that Norman dude that has a girlfriend but seems to be emotionally cheating with Hannah - who is well aware of his feelings - irritates me too. It's not cute because they're all too old to be acting that way. I have no sympathy for any of them except Norman's girlfriend who appears to be completely unaware that her boyfriend is in love with someone else, and the someone else knows it too and takes advantage of it. It doesn't make me like Hannah or root for her because she's too self-involved. Which makes me then wonder what the fuck Victor Webster's character (who is acting his age) would ever see in her. I'm glad others enjoy it though. 

[geekgirl921]

2 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

The Hannah Swensen characters are too over the top for me. The mom is extremely irritating and that Norman dude that has a girlfriend but seems to be emotionally cheating with Hannah - who is well aware of his feelings - irritates me too. It's not cute because they're all too old to be acting that way. I have no sympathy for any of them except Norman's girlfriend who appears to be completely unaware that her boyfriend is in love with someone else, and the someone else knows it too and takes advantage of it. It doesn't make me like Hannah or root for her because she's too self-involved. Which makes me then wonder what the fuck Victor Webster's character (who is acting his age) would ever see in her. I'm glad others enjoy it though. 

I only vaguely watch the Hannah Swenson movies, I used to enjoy the books but they started to irritate me too.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Watched Crown For Christmas (2015) this afternoon for about the 6th time, love it every time. 

[Badsamaritan]

On 11/3/2024 at 12:20 AM, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Watched Crown For Christmas (2015) this afternoon for about the 6th time, love it every time. 

"You had me at sewing kit" 😁

[Dimity]

Watching the Christmas movies and as usual often watching the first 10 minutes and hitting delete - that said though I've been enjoying some of them!  Anyway what I was wondering is can anyone point me to a few movies where the main characters live in normal size houses in regular neighbourhoods??  I am watching these people living their lives in huge, upscale houses and feeling a little inadequate right now!

[Shelbie]

I think the main reason the houses are so big is so it can look like Santa Claus threw up everywhere. The production companies must have warehouses full of Christmas decorations and so feel like they have to use them.

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

Watching the Christmas movies and as usual often watching the first 10 minutes and hitting delete - that said though I've been enjoying some of them!  Anyway what I was wondering is can anyone point me to a few movies where the main characters live in normal size houses in regular neighbourhoods??  I am watching these people living their lives in huge, upscale houses and feeling a little inadequate right now!

I think the movies are a lot like other TV shows and films where people seem to live in homes that are well out of the reach of the average family.  Considering most of them are running unsuccessful bakeshops or bookstores or holiday decor shops, it is tough to figure out how they paid for their homes, let alone why they wouldn't sell them and move into a more modest place since they're all on the verge of bankruptcy.  It isn't just that the houses are huge, but they tend to be completely up to date.  The kitchens all have marble or quartz countertops, huge islands and the latest, fanciest appliances.

There are a couple I can think of off the top of my head.  Christmas with Holly has a group of brothers living in the old family home which was once a showplace but now needs major repairs.  A Note for Christmas which was just shown last night, also showed the lead characters in a more modest home. Most of the royal themed films show a female princess-to-be in a more humble abode before she moves into the palace.  A Veteran's Christmas also seems to have  more modest dwellings as I recall.

However, no matter which movie you watch, all of them will be wildly overdecorated with mass quantities of expensive Hallmark doodads.

Edited 7 hours ago by Notabug

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

12 hours ago, Badsamaritan said:

"You had me at sewing kit" 😁

OMG !!!! 😂 Yes, bring on the waterworks !!!!  Crown for Christmas is definitely one of the best Hallmark Christmas movies.

[EyewatchTV211]

4 hours ago, Dimity said:

Watching the Christmas movies and as usual often watching the first 10 minutes and hitting delete - that said though I've been enjoying some of them!  Anyway what I was wondering is can anyone point me to a few movies where the main characters live in normal size houses in regular neighbourhoods??  I am watching these people living their lives in huge, upscale houses and feeling a little inadequate right now!

The only movie I can think of is a new one, A Carol for Two. It takes place in NYC, and for once, they are realistic about what non-rich people can afford there. Though because it's NYC, it isn't like a normal, suburban neighborhood with regular-sized homes. I think that's what you're referencing.

[Acmeproducts]

It’s easier to film in spacious places.

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Loved  A Carol For Two, except, __ the storyline of the cousin deadbeat prick who every time he was in a scene made me want to change the channel. The story could have been so much better without  that arc.  The other actors deserved so  much better writing,  come on Hallmark! 

[norcalgal]

3 hours ago, Acmeproducts said:

It’s easier to film in spacious places.

Yes that, but I think Hallmark makes a deliberate decision to present their movies as aspirational and escapism.  Hallmark wants to showcase upper middle class houses (and all that goes inside the house) because they want a certain image (classy, elegant, shiny and beautiful) even if the professions of the main characters don’t match the house/furnishings the people can afford.