S01.E02: The Outspoken King

[Actionmage]

But may I just express how many questions I had about the bib?

 

Taking a reply to Andre's thread.

[LaChavalina]

I was really disappointed in how the show ended up portraying Tiyanna.  I was so glad that she blew off Hakeem, initially.  She seemed to be a strong, independent young woman who was focused on her own life and career, not interested in or impressed by Hakeem and his connections.  Go, girl!  It would have been cool to see Hakeem have to man up and work to earn her attention and respect.  Then, at the end, there she was, coming when he beckoned, and offering to have sex on the floor.  Sigh.

I was more troubled by the implied attitude that "no means keep trying." I thought for sure that this situation was meant to be foreshadowing about how Hakeem can't take no for an answer and may end up in trouble. Instead, just kidding, she really wanted it once he was "famous" (from singing one song in his dad's club?). Would have been much more interesting IMO if she had set her sights on Jamal.

[BestestAuntEver]

Someone up thread mentioned that Vernon stood up for Cookie three times. I caught one I missed during rewatch. I also noted that Vernon was the one, who was comforting Cookie while they were at Lucious' house talking about Bunky.

Now I'm curious to find out how Vernon fits into everything. Bunky was Cookies' cousin. The boys call Vernon uncle. Cookie knows Vernon from before her incarceration. There is animosity between them yet Vernon will defend Cookie and feels comfortable enough to comfort her. Cookie knows him well enough to will allow him to console him.

[rozen]

Hakeem just gave Tiyanna the best publicity she could ask for, declaring himself her man in a viral video that boosted an already huge launch. And he's the golden child of her label's company. What better way to profit than to solidify her position as his actual girl? The minute he falls off, she'll be out like a rocket.

 

Hakeem never had a chance to be a decent person. His friends are instigators and leeches, (who wants to bet the sleazy friend who's always filming has a monetized youtube account dedicated to their antics?). His father spoils him and provides no direction. The only parent-like figure he has is Jamal, who has his own shit going on. He needed Cookie more than any of them.

 

Anika's crack at Cookie's age also showed some self-awareness of her position. She probably will get dropped once she ages out of Lucius's affections, and she will have nothing to tether them together. No matter what happens, Cookie is the mother of the company heir, whichever son that may be. That alone makes her position way safer than Anika's. But she really does need to consider that, statistically, she will end up in an empty room with Cookie. And Cookie will snatch that woman bald-headed.

 

Low budget Gucci Mane really needed to learn to read a room. Cookie may have been the only one running her mouth, but I'm sure every suit in that elevator would happily take a shot at him if there were no consequences.

 

Cookie's assistant is actually pretty good. She prioritized calls, made sound suggestions for Jamal's PR, and refused to little Cookie marinate in her own frustration/rage. She's just too comfortable. Hearing she tried out for Tiyanna's part leaves a bad taste in my mouth though. Reminds me of Lost changing Mr Eko into a violent character because of the actor's physique, despite the fact he auditioned for the part precisely because it was not stereotypical. 

 

I kind of liked seeing Andre off his meds, the personality that peeked through seems like one that actually grew up in the same house as Jamal and Hakeem. His serious, 'New Black', self is so alien to everyone else in his family, it's hard to believe they are related. I wonder how many of Rhonda and Andre's presumed sex sessions were really her dragging him away to force him to take his meds? If Rhonda needed a bib, I'm surprised she didn't wear a hair cap too...let me stop.

 

Jamal's cowardice is understandable. He remembers exactly how hard it was on the streets. And he's never had any family support other than Cookie. He has no fall back plan.  His family just sat and cringed while Lucius threw him in a trashcan, he would be truly alone of Lucius cut him off. His boyfriend might stick around, but we've seen no indication that he's in it for anything other than the $$ and free stuff. 

Edited January 17, 2015 by rozen

[ribboninthesky1]

Hakeem just gave Tiyanna the best publicity she could ask for, declaring himself her man in a viral video that boosted an already huge launch. And he's the golden child of her label's company. What better way to profit than to solidify her position as his actual girl? The minute he falls off, she'll be out like a rocket.

 

I don't think the episode addressed if Tionna/Tianna/Tiyanna/Tiana had any released, promoted music out.  If no one knows who she is, it doesn't matter if Hakeem name-checked her.  The name isn't so uncommon.

 

I kind of liked seeing Andre off his meds, the personality that peeked through seems like one that actually grew up in the same house as Jamal and Hakeem. His serious, 'New Black', self is so alien to everyone else in his family, it's hard to believe they are related. I wonder how many of Rhonda and Andre's presumed sex sessions were really her dragging him away to force him to take his meds? If Rhonda needed a bib, I'm surprised she didn't wear a hair cap too...let me stop.

 

I mentioned in his character thread that Andre read to me as overcompensating.  That said, I agree with others that it was a bit early for the bi-polar reveal.

 

Cookie's assistant is actually pretty good. She prioritized calls, made sound suggestions for Jamal's PR, and refused to little Cookie marinate in her own frustration/rage. She's just too comfortable. Hearing she tried out for Tiyanna's part leaves a bad taste in my mouth though. Reminds me of Lost changing Mr Eko into a violent character because of the actor's physique, despite the fact he auditioned for the part precisely because it was not stereotypical.

 

I didn't know this, and I see your point.  I know they were going for comedic effect, but it didn't quite work for me in that context.

 

Thinking on it further, this episode felt different in tone from the pilot.  It's not surprising, given that pilots are often shot well in advance of other episodes.  Sometimes it's a good thing.  In this case, it wasn't, for me at least.  I'll wait and see what the next few episodes bring.

Edited January 17, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[aprilbabe]

Someone up thread mentioned that Vernon stood up for Cookie three times. I caught one I missed during rewatch. I also noted that Vernon was the one, who was comforting Cookie while they were at Lucious' house talking about Bunky.

Now I'm curious to find out how Vernon fits into everything. Bunky was Cookies' cousin. The boys call Vernon uncle. Cookie knows Vernon from before her incarceration. There is animosity between them yet Vernon will defend Cookie and feels comfortable enough to comfort her. Cookie knows him well enough to will allow him to console him.

I'm curious is Vernon related to Cookie or Lucious since they call him uncle. I would assume Lucious since there seems to be some animosity between Cookie or Vernon. But it's also possible that Vernon may not be a biological uncle. And they just call him uncle Vernon because of the age difference( out of respect) and the fact that he's been around since they were children. Edited January 17, 2015 by aprilbabe

[JBC344]

I'm curious is Vernon related to Cookie or Lucious since they call him uncle. I would assume Lucious since there seems to be some animosity between Cookie or Vernon. But it's also possible that Vernon may not be a biological uncle. And they just call him uncle Vernon a because of the age difference( out of respect) and the fact that he's bern around since they were children.

I don't think Vernon is a biological uncle.  He seems to be Luscious's closest friend and number 2 at the company.  I think Cookie's animosity might be from the fact that all three of them probably grew up together and when Luscious broke ties with Cookie, Vernon probably did too.  I'm sure he didn't go out of his way to visit her in jail or check up on her.  That alone is enough to feel betrayed by him.

[jhlipton]

Let me add to that list anyone who calls speaking proper English "talking white," the epitome of ignorance.

 

There was an interesting discussion of "code switching" on the black-ish forum.Disrespect for "proper English" is the flip side of disrespect for "Ebonics" which, to me, is a proper dialect).

 

I don't think the episode addressed if Tionna/Tianna/Tiyanna/Tiana had any released, promoted music out.  If no one knows who she is, it doesn't matter if Hakeem name-checked her.  The name isn't so uncommon.

 

It's better than the rapper who uses "Common" as his name.  Try finding his music on YouTube!

 

I was hoping we'd hear the woman who was in the studio in the first ep again.  The final version of her song was awesome!

[ridethemaverick]

Maybe it's just me but I don't think Hakeem was calling Obama a sellout for being educated or speaking standard American English. It's not like those characteristics make him an outlier or anomaly in the black community.

I think the sellout insult was due to some of the choices he has/hasn't made as president. The various criticisms are off topic here but trust me, Hakeem is not alone and many of the people criticizing Obama are black, educated, and standard English-speaking.

I'm surprised Daniels went there.

Edited January 17, 2015 by ridethemaverick

[Ohwell]

I'm surprised Daniels went there as well, but if he was looking for laughs, all he got from me was a stone face.

 

I doubt that Hakeem even knows enough about President Obama's policies to criticize them.  I do, indeed, think that he accused the President of being a sellout just because he's not "black" enough in Hakeem's little mind.  Aside from that, my issue with that whole scenario is that a lack of respect was shown to the President and his office, whether one agrees with his policies or not.  It was not funny and it had no place on this show.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Ohwell

[ridethemaverick]

You don't have to be a genius to be dissatisfied with the president's response to Ferguson, for example. And a guy like Hakeem would be exactly the type to call that out (A young black male who is likely to be profiled by the police).

I also didn't find it off that Obama would talk to Luscious. He's always been friendly with Jay Z and we know his history.

I'm not saying I thought the scenes were respectful. They just weren't farfetched to me, is all.

[ribboninthesky1]

I have a hard time imagining that, friends or no, President Obama would personally call to curse out Jay-Z if a similar incident occurred in real life.
 
As for Hakeem, his intelligence seems to extend as far as "How can I get more buzz?"  I never thought the point was how sincere he was in the criticism, just that he knew being so blatantly disrespectful would stir up the controversy needed to generate interest in his show.  Thus the nasty behavior in the restaurant, like urinating on the damn floor.  Someone more mature, or at least savvy, would have thought of a more effective way to hit the scene.  And certainly avoid humiliating the label, and more specifically, his father.    
 
For all of his bravado, Hakeem is about as far from the average profiled young black male as a young white guy is.  When wealthy black males are regularly shot and killed by the police, let me know.  It's the height of irony he accuses ANYONE of being a sellout.  Hakeem's sheltered, wanna-be butt needs to have several seats. 
 

I was hoping we'd hear the woman who was in the studio in the first ep again. The final version of her song was awesome!

Me, too. She had a beautiful voice, though I preferred the way she was singing before Lucious stepped in.

Edited January 18, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[ridethemaverick]

How would police know he's wealthy? He presents like most young black men who are into hip hop culture. Besides, profiling doesn't always lead to shootings.

Anyway, my larger point was that Hakeem probably legitimately dislikes Obama and called him a sellout for reasons other than the fact that he's educated. That's like the go-to reason some black folks use to explain why other black folks don't like them when sometimes, it's just that you're just an asshole.

Not everyone loves Obama. Maybe Lee Daniels doesn't. Life will go on.

[Dusty]

 

How would police know he's wealthy? He presents like most young black men who are into hip hop culture. Besides, profiling doesn't always lead to shootings.

Because we live in an extremely invasive media centric world and famous people have pictures of their kids all over the place.  Especially if they actually want to be part of the industry. (Will Smith's kids just being one example)  That being said, I still think he would totally be profiled.  I'll always remember an episode commentary from the show Psych where the two main characters were being pulled over by cops.  James Roday was talking about how when they were shooting the scene Dule Hill would put his put both his hands on the dashboard and he asked him why he was doing that.  Dule Hill just said that was something you're supposed to do.  James Roday had no idea, and to be honest neither did I.  It was told as a funny story but it always struck me as sad.

 

If Daniel was trying to make a commentary on the Obama administration I don't think that Hakeem was the right character to do it with. I think he can know about Ferguson and all the big headlines news because you can't escape that, but I have a hard time believing that Hakeem even pays attention to what exactly Obama role in any of it.  The way they've portrayed his character so far I just can't see him actually caring all that much about Obama or politics either way unless it serves his own self promotion. It just rings false.  Now I did believe Lucious when he was getting choked up in his news when he was talking about Trayvon Martin and what it's like for some people to grow up in this country, even after his performance about Bunky's murder.

[Raja]

While not a outright comedy like Jane The Virgin, Empire has a similar vibe with their gags. Having an "Agent Carter" gag got a nod from me but the bib sight gag has got to be the visual bit of the year.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Raja

[Dejana]

Because we live in an extremely invasive media centric world and famous people have pictures of their kids all over the place.  Especially if they actually want to be part of the industry. (Will Smith's kids just being one example)  That being said, I still think he would totally be profiled.  I'll always remember an episode commentary from the show Psych where the two main characters were being pulled over by cops.  James Roday was talking about how when they were shooting the scene Dule Hill would put his put both his hands on the dashboard and he asked him why he was doing that.  Dule Hill just said that was something you're supposed to do.  James Roday had no idea, and to be honest neither did I.  It was told as a funny story but it always struck me as sad.

 

If Daniel was trying to make a commentary on the Obama administration I don't think that Hakeem was the right character to do it with. I think he can know about Ferguson and all the big headlines news because you can't escape that, but I have a hard time believing that Hakeem even pays attention to what exactly Obama role in any of it.  The way they've portrayed his character so far I just can't see him actually caring all that much about Obama or politics either way unless it serves his own self promotion. It just rings false.  Now I did believe Lucious when he was getting choked up in his news when he was talking about Trayvon Martin and what it's like for some people to grow up in this country, even after his performance about Bunky's murder.

 

This. Hakeem just seems sort of self-involved and oblivious, the type of teenager who thinks politics is boring and noise and is wrapped up in friends/music/girls. The writers just took Bieber doing this and swapped out Clinton for Obama, with more pointed remarks. Possibly, I could buy that he's parroting what he's overheard from smarter people at the dinner table/barber shop.

 

If Jamal is the son someone supposedly Jay Z/Dre famous, with an underground following of his own, living with a boyfriend, realistically, it would be at best an open secret about his sexuality. I guess in this world, there's no Media Take Out or All Hip Hop?

Edited January 18, 2015 by Dejana

[ribboninthesky1]

How would police know he's wealthy? He presents like most young black men who are into hip hop culture. Besides, profiling doesn't always lead to shootings.

Anyway, my larger point was that Hakeem probably legitimately dislikes Obama and called him a sellout for reasons other than the fact that he's educated. That's like the go-to reason some black folks use to explain why other black folks don't like them when sometimes, it's just that you're just an asshole.

Not everyone loves Obama. Maybe Lee Daniels doesn't. Life will go on.

 

And that's fair - I mentioned in an earlier post that I have no issues with criticism of the President's policies and positions.  And ultimately, I didn't take anything Hakeem said seriously because I read it as attention-seeking, not anything profound.  That said, his little rant sounded more personal than political.  One of his crew directly says something like, "he's not even half a brotha."   

 

As for Hakeem, I think the fact that he and his crew were in a seemingly upscale restaurant when they pulled their stunt sort of speaks to the fact that his daily existence isn't similar to the average young "urban" black male.  It's not even about being known in the media, though Dusty makes a compelling point.  It's just that Hakeem is an impostor - he's never lived the hood life (as far as I know), yet he pretends that he does.  Andre and Jamal, the ones likely to have legitimate memories of what it was like in the hood, don't feel compelled to wear it on their sleeves every day, and neither do the older men like Lucious or Vernon, who ACTUALLY lived it.  I don't know if the show will address racial profiling directly, but Hakeem was an absolute fool in that restaurant, yet we never saw him detained, arrested, or charged with anything. Likely a far cry from what a Michael Brown or Trayvon Martin would have experienced. 

 

All that to say, money doesn't make racism obselete, but it can net some damn good lawyers.  Which is okay, but Hakeem doesn't have much of a leg to stand on when calling someone else, President Obama in particular, a sellout.     

 

This. Hakeem just seems sort of self-involved and oblivious, the type of teenager who thinks politics is boring and noise and is wrapped up in friends/music/girls. The writers just took Bieber doing this and swapped out Clinton for Obama, with more pointed remarks.

 

Interesting! Certainly brings that scene into context.

[ToukieSmith]

Lucious did have a good point about Cookie this episode. He told her she can't go around acting all ghetto and loud she needs to think and act like a business woman. Hopecully Cookie gets smoothed out where she can hold her own in the boardroom letting people know that she's as smart as many in the music industry.

 

Cookie came across as more sophisticated in the Pilot versus the 2nd episode IMO.  I hope the shoe throwing was a one time thing...or at least she doesn't do something like it in every episode to get attention.  It was fun to watch, but I hope she does not become a one note caricature.

 

I thought the bib was low and disparaging.  When I see men wearing bibs and/or other props to satisfy women sexually, then I will be okay with it.

Edited January 18, 2015 by ToukieSmith

[SFoster21]

What I wouldn't give to have been a fly on the wall in the Rice household when Cookie dropped her, "Oh, you gonna Ray Rice me?!!" Ray Rice catching hell; President Obama getting insulted...no one is safe from these writers.

"Who's Diana Ross?"

[MizStaken]

How old is Hakeem supposed to be anyway, say he was 1 to 2 when Cookie got sent off, that doesn't even make him 20. And he sure does seem to be doing a lot of drinking for someone who isn't even legally allowed to drink.

And I was so hoping that Tianna would be into Jamal. That sure would have knocked Hakeem down a notch or two.

And what was with Lucious' hair this week?

Oh and who ever is doing the costumes , you are doing Gabby no favors by putting her in a sleeveless dress.

And I, too, am intrigued by the bib, not like she was already dressed or anything.

[Jazzy24]

How old is Hakeem supposed to be anyway, say he was 1 to 2 when Cookie got sent off, that doesn't even make him 20. And he sure does seem to be doing a lot of drinking for someone who isn't even legally allowed to drink.

I saw an interview when Taraji was saying that Hakeem wasn't even 1 yet when Cookie got sent to prison so I'm guessing he's about 17-18yrs old.

And yeah he does drink a lot everytime he drinks I be thinking he ain't even of age yet he gets away with it. Lucious really is a bad parent.

[Neurochick]

I don't get why Cookie hates Anika, is it because Anika hates her?  I mean she's divorced from Lucious, he treats her like crap; Cookie should be like, "you can have his sorry ass."

 

The only reason I can see Cookie hating Anika (and I hate it when women fight over a sorry ass man), is because Cookie feels that Lucious had replaced Cookie with Anika (then why hate Anika for that?)

Edited January 18, 2015 by Neurochick

[DollEyes]

  Re Lucius and Cookie, ITA that Lucius still respects Cookie on some level, otherwise he wouldn't have taken Cookie's advice and fired Four-Four, the delusional, ignorant rapper who doesn't know who Diana Ross is and had the nerve to compare himself to Gandhi. Last time I checked, Gandhi didn't call women "bitches" nor caused his fans to go on killing sprees. Four-Four is just a Gucci Mane wannabe and a wack one, at that. Lucius' lecturing Cookie on business etiquette was rich, considering that one of his negotiating tactics is homicide. I hope that Lucius and Cookie don't get back together because Cookie deserves better. Way better. As for Lucius' supporting Jamal, given that Jamal is probably scarred for life re the trash can incident, that's the least he can do for Jamal, the way I see it. I'm also among those who agree that Jamal should have told Cookie about Lucius' blackmailing him because I believe that if she had known, she not only would have put Lucius on blast, she would have killed his tentative IPO deal with just one phone call to the Securities & Exchange Commission, or at least threatened to do so if he ever pulled that shit on Jamal again.

 

  Re Tiana the Ciara clone, while I agree that it was disappointing that she ultimately gave in to Hakeem, I'm among those who think that she might be using him. Tiana's first meeting with Hakeem when she barged in on him and his crew didn't feel "accidental" to me. About Hakeem's behavior, I think he acts the way he does because he hasn't had a mother. Lucius has probably had several women in his life including Anika while Cookie was in prison so Hakeem probably gets his cues on how to treat women from Lucius, hence his refusal to let Cookie comfort him while he mourns Bunkie. As for Hakeem's feelings about Obama, I don't always agree with Obama either, but at least he's earned his success the hard way, not had it handed to him on a silver platter. Every time Hakeem rants about things he knows little (if anything) about, it reminds me of the old James Brown song, "Talking Loud & Saying Nothing."  

Edited January 18, 2015 by DollEyes

[aprilbabe]

.

I am interested in seeing how things develop between her and Lucious and if/when their feelings for each other will be addressed. I think they could be addressed in a variety of ways like her getting a new man in her life (which I think will make him jealous and be entertaining to watch), or she finds out that he's dying.

Well based on the TCA' s that scenario is def coming up. When asked about when Cookie would get her some and with who one of the producers replied

It's getting hot on the #Empire panel. Will Cookie get her groove back? EP says "more than once!"(& maybe not w/ Lucious) #TCA15

"If Cookie does get her groove back and it's somebody other than Lucious, he's not going to make it easy." @ilenechaiken #Empire #TCA15

Edited January 18, 2015 by aprilbabe

[aprilbabe]

I don't get why Cookie hates Anika, is it because Anika hates her? I mean she's divorced from Lucious, he treats her like crap; Cookie should be like, "you can have his sorry ass."

The only reason I can see Cookie hating Anika (and I hate it when women fight over a sorry ass man), is because Cookie feels that Lucious had replaced Cookie with Anika (then why hate Anika for that?)

I think Cookie dislikes Anika mainly because she's exactly the type of girl Cookie wouldn't like even if she wasn't dating Lucious. And while she def deserves better, I think she still has feeling for him, so Anika bothers her. But honestly Cookie hasn't bothered with Anika until she inserted herself. She comes out in her underwear cookie ignores hers. She doesn't say anything to her until she inserts herself in their convo at breakfast, Anika calls cookie rude, she claps back. Cookie and Lucious are having a convo at the club, Anika comes and inserts herself in the middle ( for no damn reason other than she's insecure) and Cookie says something. Cookie tends to ignore Anika until anika inserts herself in a situation, either by her words, or getting in her space. Edited January 18, 2015 by aprilbabe

[ribboninthesky1]

I don't get why Cookie hates Anika, is it because Anika hates her?  I mean she's divorced from Lucious, he treats her like crap; Cookie should be like, "you can have his sorry ass."

 

The only reason I can see Cookie hating Anika (and I hate it when women fight over a sorry ass man), is because Cookie feels that Lucious had replaced Cookie with Anika (then why hate Anika for that?)

 

No doubt that Cookie and Lucious loved each other at some point, but divorcing her while she was incarcerated is a low blow, and should tell Cookie all she needs to know.  I'm hoping they don't reconcile in any way, whether physically or emotionally.  I have no problems with Cookie getting her life back, and hope that means if she wants to be with someone, she'll find a good man.  One of the differences I noticed between the pilot and this episode is that pilot Cookie didn't seem remotely interested in getting back with Lucious, or particularly bothered by Anika.  In this episode, it seems more obvious (to me anyway) that they're setting up a possible reconciliation between them.  I hope not.  I agree with you in that I would tell Anika that she could have him, and keep it moving.   

 

Granted, Cookie made her bed with being a drug runner. Still, knowing that some women end up in prison because of the men they love, it's sad that she lost two decades of her life for a man she has to demand respect and blackmail proper compensation from.  Cookie should have been automatically set for life upon her release, if Lucious was any kind of decent man.  I still hope that, in future episodes, Cookie can get some decent allies on her side.   

 

Cookie came across as more sophisticated in the Pilot versus the 2nd episode IMO.  I hope the shoe throwing was a one time thing...or at least she doesn't do something like it in every episode to get attention.  It was fun to watch, but I hope she does not become a one note caricature.

 

Fingers crossed! 

Edited January 18, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[JBC344]

See I don't have a problem with Luscious divorcing Cookie.  Her original sentence was for 30 years, and even her getting out at 17 is still along time.  I wouldn't expect any person to wait for someone that long.  

 

What I blame Luscious for is forgetting about her.  He should of been fostering the relationship between her and the boys while she was away, and kept her abreast of everything. He also should of already had an account full of money for her the second he went big.  An account that would of been collecting interest all this time.  The second Cookie got out Luscious and the boys should of been waiting to welcome her and then proceeded to take her to her brand new home with Luscious presenting her with the money he saved for her.

 

Cookie's main issue is the fact that she has been forgotten by everyone except Jamal.

[aprilbabe]

I take a lot of issue with Lucious but him divorcing cookie in prison isn't one of them. It not like she got sentenced to 1,3 or even 5 years. It was 30. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would wait 30 years for someone. I know I wouldnt, and if I was the one in prison for that long I wouldn't expect anyone to wait for me either.

However divorcing her doesn't mean he had to abandon her or pretend like she no longer existed. He could have checked up on her, put some money on her account, wrote a letter updating her on the kids. That fact that her completely broke ties with her is cold, him divorcing her is realistic.

ETA JBC344 you and I just said the exact same thing lol

Edited January 18, 2015 by aprilbabe

[JBC344]

Another think to add with Luscious abandoning Cookie is that once he made it big he could have conceivably hired a big shot attorney to petition the court to reduce Cookie's sentence.  We have talked about how in the time period Cookie went away it is realistic for her to get 30 years but since then the drug laws have been changed and a good attorney would of been able to get her sentenced reduced some, or even some form of extended parole.  That is enough to hate Luscious right there.

[ribboninthesky1]

While I don't think Lucious was a good father, I don't really hold him accountable for the boys' relationship with their mother.  If Andre wanted to cut ties and Hakeem never wanted to know her, there's not a whole lot he could do about that.   Of course, that's probably giving him the benefit of the doubt, since he's never shown concern for the void left with their mother's imprisonment.  

 

As for the divorce - well, marriage is supposed to be for life.  And marriage provides certain legal and financial privileges and obligations.  If it was just about being with someone else, technically he could have done that without divorcing Cookie (and he might have done just that before filing).  To me, the divorce was the first sign that Lucious wasn't concerned about Cookie's welfare.  Is he married to Anika?  

 

I don't think the show has addressed when he filed for divorce, right?  At minimum, I'm hoping it was later rather than sooner.  I mean, if I went to prison because I was trying to support my husband's rap career, and possibly to keep him from being sent in, and he divorced me while I was serving my time, it wouldn't exactly leave me with a warm and fuzzy feeling.  And since I suspect Lucious didn't visit much, I wonder if he blindsided her with the divorce.     

[Happytobehere]

Lucius - murderer though he is - seems to me a softy.  He comes across as all hardened but ALL his boys are pampered and spoiled.  He loves Jamal - evidenced not only by the cushy lifestyle and I'm sure all the music lessons and baby grand pianos one could play, but also that he DID bring Jamal to see his mother over the years and was very gentle with him at the time.  But I think he draws his line at allowing Jamal to REPRESENT him as the face of that empire he made because he is so rejecting of the gay lifestyle.  That said, he's going to have to take a major journey of acceptance to make peace with his son before he dies.  And he WILL take it, I have no doubt.

 

I agree with this to a certain extent, but let's not forget Lucifer throwing Jamal in the garbage. I think that speaks volumes. I think his supporting Jamal comes down to two things. One Cookie, as people have noted, he still clearly cares for and about as well as respects Cookie. There is not doubt that he promised Cookie that he would take care of Jamal no matter what. Two, Lucifer is so afraid of his public knowing he has a gay son, he might be supporting Jamal to keep the secret from coming out. Look at how he used this to his benefit tonight.

This show just proves that along with Gina Torres and Viola Davis, Taraji is the queen of television. She is the reason to watch. Her acting is sublime, the subtley and layers of emotions she displays are top-notch.

As for Boo Boo Kitty, she actually comes across as pathetic. Everything she does with regards to Cookie shows she knows she is little more than Lucifer's trophy jump-off. If she spent more time focused on her actual role in the business instead of being the cloying, momentarily attractive, desperate to keep a man with money and power, she might be worth the price of spit. Even her dig at Cookie's age reveals that she knows that Lucifer is only with her because of her looks and when they go, she'll be going with them. Sadly, she doesn't get that the more she tries to down-grade Cookie, the more she shows how low she actually is.

The girl that hooked up with Hakeem is definitely scheming. Like Cookie said, Lucifer raised him to be a fool and she knows a foolish chump on the come-up when she sees one.

[netlyon2]

Granted, Cookie made her bed with being a drug runner. Still, knowing that some women end up in prison because of the men they love, it's sad that she lost two decades of her life for a man she has to demand respect and blackmail proper compensation from.  Cookie should have been automatically set for life upon her release, if Lucious was any kind of decent man.  I still hope that, in future episodes, Cookie can get some decent allies on her side.   

You know, I just realized that I read their relationship as more of a partnership in that they were both drug dealers.  I have no idea if there were any clues or dialogue to indicate one way or the other.

 

For me, her taking the fall was more about supporting her artist (and by extension, her family) than about protecting her man.  Since Luscious was close to his big break--the goal toward which they had both been working so hard--she saw him as the more valuable parent at the time; hence the decision to take the fall herself.

 

Following this train of thought, I realized a few things that might be interesting directions for the show to take.  Cookie is a blend of Andre (business sense) and Hakeem (emotion/heart), while Luscious is more reflected in Jamal (artistic talent) and, to a lesser extent, Andre (business sense, possibly picked up from Cookie).  While there are several factors that influence each parent's favored child, it is worth noting that they both favor the child that is (a) least like them and (b) most like the other.  So Cookie connects most with Jamal, who may represent Luscious' talent (and need for her), and Luscious affectionately tells Hakeem that he is just like Cookie (perhaps part of the reason that his father indulges him so much). 

 

These two sons have become the battleground upon which their parents are waging war, but we've had two weeks in a row now where the love between Jamal and Hakeem has proven stronger that the antagonistic machinations of their parents.  Furthermore, their sons are consciously rebelling against these plans; the boys were hip to their parents' game from the first move and have prioritized that fraternal bond over their own ambitions.  Is this an indication that the endgame is a reconciliation between the parents or could it just be set up for a massive betrayal by one of the brothers?

 

Interestingly, neither parent seems to have a special bond with Andre, who (1) shares that business sense with both parents and (2) was the most present during their early days.  However, they both see him as an ally, perhaps even as more of an equal rather than a child who needs protecting.  Did they treat him that way when he was a child?  Could that be part of his drive to be both independent and indispensable?  Since I tend to see Rhonda more as Blonde Cookie than as Becky Macbeth (TM someone awesome), I wonder at what point his being bipolar became evident and shifted the balance of power in their relationship.  Was he always seeking that mother figure or did Rhonda step into that role when it became necessary to do so in helping him to reach his own goals?  How symbolic is that damn bib, anyway?

 

Wow, that's a lot of thinking about this wacky show.  I really hope the writers are going to delve into some complex characters and stories rather than focusing on maintaining shock value to the detriment of everything else.

[Ohwell]

Aside from the fact that Anika can't keep her mouth shut around Cookie and feels threatened around her, I think the reason Cookie doesn't like her could be old-school simple:   Anika is high yellow with "good" hair.  Brings back a lot of memories, lol.  Anika is treading on very dangerous ground and I think Cookie has actually shown a lot of restraint around her, because if she taunted me about my age like that, I would have knocked her into March 2016.

 

P.S.  Hakeem, Anika, I swear I am not a violent person, heh. 

Edited January 18, 2015 by Ohwell

[JBC344]

While I don't think Lucious was a good father, I don't really hold him accountable for the boys' relationship with their mother.  If Andre wanted to cut ties and Hakeem never wanted to know her, there's not a whole lot he could do about that.   Of course, that's probably giving him the benefit of the doubt, since he's never shown concern for the void left with their mother's imprisonment.  

 

As for the divorce - well, marriage is supposed to be for life.  And marriage provides certain legal and financial privileges and obligations.  If it was just about being with someone else, technically he could have done that without divorcing Cookie (and he might have done just that before filing).  To me, the divorce was the first sign that Lucious wasn't concerned about Cookie's welfare.  Is he married to Anika?  

 

I don't think the show has addressed when he filed for divorce, right?  At minimum, I'm hoping it was later rather than sooner.  I mean, if I went to prison because I was trying to support my husband's rap career, and possibly to keep him from being sent in, and he divorced me while I was serving my time, it wouldn't exactly leave me with a warm and fuzzy feeling.  And since I suspect Lucious didn't visit much, I wonder if he blindsided her with the divorce.     

While I think that Andre being the oldest has a right not to see Cookie after a certain age, and we already saw that Jamal continued to see her for a little while at least.  I think that Lucious had a responsibility to make sure that Hakeem knew his mother growing up.  Hakeem was barely one when Cookie went away he should have been raised with continuous visits to see his mother.  Hell if Lucious didn't want to see Cookie he could of had Vernon or paid someone to take Hakeem and/or Jamal up there to see her on a continuous basis.  Of course if you ask Hakeem as a teenager about seeing Cookie of course he doesn't want to because Lucious has never made Cookie a real part of Hakeem's life.  My point is Lucious is the one that has the power in that situation since Cookie is locked up.

 

To me it is sort of a self fulfilling prophecy.  Lucious seem very comfortable and content leaving Cookie behind once in jail, he could only foster that by keeping the boys away as well.  You arguably can't keep Cookie a distant memory if the boys are visiting her every month and your in communication with her about your children.  When Bunky told Lucious that Cookie was getting out he wasn't the least bit surprised, relieved for her or his boys, he was annoyed that Cookie is now going to be a presence in his life when for the last 17yrs he has gone out of his way to make her forgotten in everyone but Jamal.

 

Him divorcing Cookie I don't necessarily blame him for, but making her "disappear" in your child's memories is incredibly cruel.

[Syndicate]

I don't mind shock value moments as long as they don't completely take the place of good storytelling and exposition.  I find the set up of Lucious favoring Hakeem and Cookie favoring Jamal while neither parent favors Andre, to be interesting.  I tend to believe that this is why Andre is the son with the mental illness.  He was largely ignored and perhaps rejected as a child, and we can certainly see glimpses of that now with him as an adult.  I suspect tragedy will strike and Lucious and Cookie will have to face just how sick their son has been all this time and they knew nothing of it.  Expect lots of blaming and finger pointing.  Lucious and Cookie blaming each other for failing Andre and definitely Cookie ripping into Rhonda for knowing and not saying anything.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Syndicate

[Jazzy24]

I don't mind shock value moments as long as they don't completely take the place of good storytelling and exposition. I find the set up of Lucious favoring Hakeem and Cookie favoring Jamal while neither parent favors Andre, to be interesting. I tend to believe that this is why Andre is the son with the mental illness. He was largely ignored and perhaps rejected as a child, and we can certainly see glimpses of that now with him as an adult. I suspect tragedy will strike and Lucious and Cookie will have to face just how sick their son has been all this time and they knew nothing of it. Expect lots of blaming and finger pointing. Lucious and Cookie blaming each other for failing Andre and definitely Cookie ripping into Rhonda for knowing and not saying anything.

I don't think Cookie consciously favored Jamal over Hakeem and Andre he was the only one that kept in contact with her through the years and even now seems to love her and want her around.

Andre doesn't seem to have any emotional ties to her except as a means to an end with trying to get the business that's not Cookies' fault.

[JBC344]

I agree, I don't think Cookie favors Jamal over Andre and Hakeem.  It is just Jamal is the only one that she has a continuous relationship with, or the only son that even cares if she is around.  

[leisawoo]

I think they need to show how Loo-shus raised the boys or give some clues. Did he try to make himself a hero and bash Cookie? Or did he tell his sons honestly of the sacrifice that she made? Of course, that storyline also has the mysterious agent telling Cookie she has to testify and Cookie worrying for her life. It seems to be very clandestine with her/agent. Is Loo-shus aware of that situation? It seemed to be a surprise to everyone that Cookie was out or at least as I remember. Did she roll over on someone to get out early? Perhaps because she saw Loo-shus all over media blowing up after he abandoned her.

[ThomasAAnderson]

Something just occurred to me...Hakeem trying so hard to be a gangster and his mama is more gangster than he'll ever be. He'd better recognize.

[Jazzy24]

I agree, I don't think Cookie favors Jamal over Andre and Hakeem. It is just Jamal is the only one that she has a continuous relationship with, or the only son that even cares if she is around.

I do think she does favor Jamal over Hakeem and Andre I just don't think she did it consciously like Lucious does with Hakeem.

Jamal is the only one who wants her and seems to care for her of course he would be the one she cares about most in return.

[leisawoo]

Something just occurred to me...Hakeem trying so hard to be a gangster and his mama is more gangster than he'll ever be. He'd better recognize.

Amen and amen.

[prican58]

No time to read all the details here but I want to say as others have, that Taraji is the rel deal. I've seen lots of her stuff and she has never given a bad performance. From Benjamin Button to Tyler Perry, she is always in command of her character. as her twitter name says she is the real Taraji.

 

This show is great. 

[ribboninthesky1]

You know, I just realized that I read their relationship as more of a partnership in that they were both drug dealers.  I have no idea if there were any clues or dialogue to indicate one way or the other.

 

For me, her taking the fall was more about supporting her artist (and by extension, her family) than about protecting her man.  Since Luscious was close to his big break--the goal toward which they had both been working so hard--she saw him as the more valuable parent at the time; hence the decision to take the fall herself.

 

I could see this if Lucious had not made it clear that Cookie was the one who primarily handled the parenting.  Cookie doesn't strike me as stupid, so it's hard for me to believe that she thought Lucious was the more valuable parent, especially after the way he abused Jamal. I do think she believed in his talent, and felt that it would be their ticket out of the hood.  But I'm not sure how or why she thought going to prison was supporting their children.   

 

Him divorcing Cookie I don't necessarily blame him for, but making her "disappear" in your child's memories is incredibly cruel.

 

It is.  But I also think that the very act of being incarcerated when your children are so young fractures them in a way that can't be undone.  Writing letters and occasional visits isn't the same as a present and accessible parent.  If she was there, there wouldn't be any chance to wipe her memory away.  As I mentioned before, Cookie isn't stupid - she had to know going away would adversely impact her children and any relationship with them.  She doesn't seem all that surprised that two of her sons are so distant, interestingly enough.     

 

I hope they provide more details around this, as I'm curious if/how Cookie got caught, what did she think she was agreeing to, who did she expect to act as a surrogate mother, if Lucious persuaded her to take the fall for him, how she's working with the Feds, etc.  Cookie gives me the impression that she expected Lucious to support her while in prison, and that didn't happen (even before the divorce, assuming that happened later).

[JBC344]

I think Cookie has made peace with the damage that she has done to her children and fully understands that she may never have a traditional relationship with them.  I also think that she is incredibly frustrated because she feels like her "sacrifice" has not been respected.  In order for her to get 30 years she obviously didn't disclose Luscious's involvement with her drug dealing as well as disclose that she currently was hiding 400,000 dollars of drug money.  Both of which would of gotten her a lighter sentence.

 

Something tells me that information won't be kept secret for long despite the non-disclosure agreement, but I am curious how everyone will react when faced with the fact that their current lifestyle is predicated on Cookie's sacrifice.  How do you embrace the family Empire when you find out it was premeditated by Cookie in the first place.

[Timetoread]

So many posts and so many thoughts!

 

Re Lucius divorcing Cookie and keeping the boys from her:  I'm probably letting my romanticism go too far here but I understand, cold though it is.  I inferred from the info given that both Cookie AND Lucius were dealing, but in addition to being "street" Lucius was also talented.  They devised a plan to do crime in order to support not just a career but to build an organization.  He didn't need seed money to get a deal, he needed money to maintain ownership of his own brand.  THAT is brilliant business and that came from Cookie.  When Cookie took the fall it wasn't to protect just him but all of them (the kids included).  Lucius had something that could take those kids out of that environment forever - what ALL parents want for their children.  So here's where I understand the cold cut.  Lucius DID remove the kids from the negativity of the streets and they were raised like Kardashians.  Andre thrived in what privilege brought and found it easier on his psyche to let the past be the past, and, perhaps feeling the sting of her incarceration the most, sublimated his rage and simply chose to forget her.  Hakeem didn't know her at all and by the time he was old enough to ask for his mother, he had already bonded with several surrogates and didn't yet have the maturity to ask for what he was missing or to even know that he truly WAS missing something.  Jamal, on the other hand, needed and asked for his mother, so Lucius obliged.  I am not defending Lucius because I think he was wrong, but I do understand how he felt that letting Cookie be the sin eater and allowing history to forget her was the right, if unkind, choice.

 

Re Andre and Rhonda.  Though I crack up at the inferences of her being the Evil White Wife, so far I don't hate her.  I think that keeping her bipolar husband functioning and thriving so that the world respects him is admirable.  Bib notwithstanding, she seems to appeal always to his pride and manhood and does NOT make him feel nagged or subordinate in their relationship.  She has his ear and gives advice that she feels will benefit him.  I think she is definitely scheming and manipulative but at this point, I don't feel that Andre is one of her victims or her pawn.  I think she loves him.

 

Re Cookie/Lucius and their boys:  I loved the analysis above about each parent gravitating toward the child who is most unlike themselves and most like the other.  Things do go down like that.  I however do NOT agree that they hold Andre in a lesser esteem, however.  There was something in Cookie's demeanor when Andre first visited that hit me hard.  Andre is the kid that they feel the most guilt about.  He was old enough to remember.  Old enough to take the full impact of the dissolution of the family, of the shame and humiliation of his mother going to jail as a drug dealer, of the absence of a loving mother who was once there but is not any longer, of the mixed emotions of seeing his father take on new love interests.  That all fell squarely on Andre.  Cookie accepted his cut from her as her punishment for that, if it made it easier on him.  Lucius, however, processed his angst over Andre in another way.  Where Jamal and Hakeem have been pampered and indulged, Lucius sought to make Andre exceptional and the antithesis of low class.  Andre is a Harvard educated executive who isn't just a son in a suit, but a bona fide board member.  An achiever.  And I think we'll find that Rhonda isn't just a trophy white wife for a black man wanting to show his accomplishments, Rhonda WAS an accomplishment - a smart woman who could choose ANYONE but who chose him.  And as happens often with the oldest kid, the parents forget that they ARE kids who have the same need for nurturing and guidance as the younger ones.  Honestly, I believe that the bipolar reveal came early because the set up has been that Cookie and Lucius will fight each other over Hakeem and Jamal, but in reality these two are going to have to fight together to save their first born.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Timetoread

[Syndicate]

So many posts and so many thoughts!

 

Re Lucius divorcing Cookie and keeping the boys from her:  I'm probably letting my romanticism go too far here but I understand, cold though it is.  I inferred from the info given that both Cookie AND Lucius were dealing, but in addition to being "street" Lucius was also talented.  They devised a plan to do crime in order to support not just a career but to build an organization.  He didn't need seed money to get a deal, he needed money to maintain ownership of his own brand.  THAT is brilliant business and that came from Cookie.  When Cookie took the fall it wasn't to protect just him but all of them (the kids included).  Lucius had something that could take those kids out of that environment forever - what ALL parents want for their children.  So here's where I understand the cold cut.  Lucius DID remove the kids from the negativity of the streets and they were raised like Kardashians.  Andre thrived in what privilege brought and found it easier on his psyche to let the past be the past, and, perhaps feeling the sting of her incarceration the most, sublimated his rage and simply chose to forget her.  Hakeem didn't know her at all and by the time he was old enough to ask for his mother, he had already bonded with several surrogates and didn't yet have the maturity to ask for what he was missing or to even know that he truly WAS missing something.  Jamal, on the other hand, needed and asked for his mother, so Lucius obliged.  I am not defending Lucius because I think he was wrong, but I do understand how he felt that letting Cookie be the sin eater and allowing history to forget her was the right, if unkind, choice.

 

Re Andre and Rhonda.  Though I crack up at the inferences of her being the Evil White Wife, so far I don't hate her.  I think that keeping her bipolar husband functioning and thriving so that the world respects him is admirable.  Bib notwithstanding, she seems to appeal always to his pride and manhood and does NOT make him feel nagged or subordinate in their relationship.  She has his ear and gives advice that she feels will benefit him.  I think she is definitely scheming and manipulative but at this point, I don't feel that Andre is one of her victims or her pawn.  I think she loves him.

 

Re Cookie/Lucius and their boys:  I loved the analysis above about each parent gravitating toward the child who is most unlike themselves and most like the other.  Things do go down like that.  I however do NOT agree that they hold Andre in a lesser esteem, however.  There was something in Cookie's demeanor when Andre first visited that hit me hard.  Andre is the kid that they feel the most guilt about.  He was old enough to remember.  Old enough to take the full impact of the dissolution of the family, of the shame and humiliation of his mother going to jail as a drug dealer, of the absence of a loving mother who was once there but is not any longer, of the mixed emotions of seeing his father take on new love interests.  That all fell squarely on Andre.  Cookie accepted his cut from her as her punishment for that, if it made it easier on him.  Lucius, however, processed his angst over Andre in another way.  Where Jamal and Hakeem have been pampered and indulged, Lucius sought to make Andre exceptional and the antithesis of low class.  Andre is a Harvard educated executive who isn't just a son in a suit, but a bona fide board member.  An achiever.  And I think we'll find that Rhonda isn't just a trophy white wife for a black man wanting to show his accomplishments, Rhonda WAS an accomplishment - a smart woman who could choose ANYONE but who chose him.  And as happens often with the oldest kid, the parents forget that they ARE kids who have the same need for nurturing and guidance as the younger ones.  Honestly, I believe that the bipolar reveal came early because the set up has been that Cookie and Lucius will fight each other over Hakeem and Jamal, but in reality these two are going to have to fight together to save their first born.

I like this entire post, but given the nature of this show as shown in 2 episodes, I'm wondering if any of the analysis here will actually come to pass.  I do feel that Cookie showed a sense of guilt about Andre in the pilot episode, but reasonably assuming that Lucious steered Andre in a more prestigious direction by paying for him to have a Harvard education and everything that goes along with that, at what point did Andre become decidedly devious and ungrateful to the point where he's willing to stand back and watch his parents and brothers destroy one another so that he can steal the throne?  Furthermore, I don't even understand why Lucious has to "test" his sons as to whom should take over the company.  Andre, though not a musician, should easily win out due to his business sense, but I guess they have to do it the way they're doing it for storyline purposes,  EXPOSITION will be key to us truly learning about these characters.

[copacabana]

Re Tiyana, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Luscious has offered her some incentives to pounce on Hakeem and keep him content, confident, and placated. They've done a good job of suggesting that Hakeem is afraid of performing on his own -- he wants that other person with him there on stage -- most especially his super talented brother.  I think Luscious knows Hakeem well enough to know this -- and recognizes it as something that he suffered from too.  Hence his reliance on Cookie when he was starting out.  I got the feeling that the whole restaurant freak-out scene was to show that this is how Hakeem manages his building stage fright before a performance.  It's not just about trying to be gangsta, but a way of working himself up so he can get over.

 

I love the show too.  Not crazy about yet another introduction of our President into the mix -- seemed like a cheap stunt -- but Lee Daniels has balls of steel.  So refreshing to see something like this on network tv.  (I love Viola Davis but hate her show.  She deserves so much better.)  

 

The look on Cookie's face when she walked into Luscious' house and saw the Klimt was so well-played,  You could see all the layers of anger and hurt and regret for everything she lost just washing over her.  And pretending she thought the painting was ugly was great. 

 

Whoever plays Andre is doing a bang-up job of showing that guy who knows he should be on his meds but is afraid that he won't be able to do what he thinks he needs to do to succeed if he's on them.  His brief moments of displaying the start of mania were very good.  The bib was great -- The bib and the rollers together?  Epic.

 

What strains credulity even if this is a soap opera is that Jamal would not already be signed up to another label.  He may be afraid of coming out -- who can possibly blame him given what we know -- but he's not afraid of performing.  Not at all. 

 

I hope Gabourney gets to keep the clothes.  The blue and white striped dress looked amazing on her.  And horizontal stripes at that!  I would gladly watch the Becky and Porscha show. 

Edited January 20, 2015 by copacabana

[JBC344]

See, I actually don't mind that Luscious hasn't just given the company to Andre.  I like Andre and I'm sure he is dedicated and seems to be good at business, but that doesn't necessarily translate to running a company.  I think that Luscious can recognize that in Andre.  He may view Andre as a great number 2 or 3 in the company hierarchy but not someone who should be the head.  Being good in business doesn't necessarily qualify you to run or be the head of your own company.  If that were the case every top executive would walk out the door tomorrow and start their own business.

 

Not that I think Hakeem is a better choice, but it seems to me like Jamal might be the required balance between the two.  Or at least Luscious is looking for someone who has "a balance".

[jhlipton]

The look on Cookie's face when she walked into Lucious' house and saw the Klimt was so well-played,  You could see all the layers of anger and hurt and regret for everything she lost just washing over her.  And pretending she thought the painting was ugly was great. 

 

I'm not sure she was pretending.  Klimt is one of the more approachable modern artists but not everyone likes his work.

[netlyon2]

(1) Re Lucius divorcing Cookie and keeping the boys from her:  I'm probably letting my romanticism go too far here but I understand, cold though it is. . . .  I am not defending Lucius because I think he was wrong, but I do understand how he felt that letting Cookie be the sin eater and allowing history to forget her was the right, if unkind, choice.

 

(2) Re Andre and Rhonda.  Though I crack up at the inferences of her being the Evil White Wife, so far I don't hate her.  I think that keeping her bipolar husband functioning and thriving so that the world respects him is admirable.  Bib notwithstanding, she seems to appeal always to his pride and manhood and does NOT make him feel nagged or subordinate in their relationship.  She has his ear and gives advice that she feels will benefit him.  I think she is definitely scheming and manipulative but at this point, I don't feel that Andre is one of her victims or her pawn.  I think she loves him.

 

(3) Re Cookie/Lucius and their boys:  I loved the analysis above about each parent gravitating toward the child who is most unlike themselves and most like the other.  Things do go down like that.  I however do NOT agree that they hold Andre in a lesser esteem, however. . . . And as happens often with the oldest kid, the parents forget that they ARE kids who have the same need for nurturing and guidance as the younger ones.  Honestly, I believe that the bipolar reveal came early because the set up has been that Cookie and Lucius will fight each other over Hakeem and Jamal, but in reality these two are going to have to fight together to save their first born.

(1) This is how I see it as well (just expressed way better than I did).

 

(2) I agree.  I think having the audience see her doing her own thing at the photo shoot was a smart way to show that Rhonda is not depending on Andre for anything.  Her star doesn't rise or fall with his (*Anika*), and that makes it easier to see her as supporting her husband rather than using him.

 

(3) Again, you expressed what I was trying to say much better than I did.  I think both parents love Andre, but they don't seem to feel the need to take care of him.  He is more of an adult to them, a peer who is to be consulted, not coddled.  Your speculation is quite intriguing; I wonder if it will be Rhonda who calls them on their neglect of their oldest son.  Then again, maybe she'll betray him and be the catalyst instead.

 

(1) Re Tiyana, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Lucious has offered her some incentives to pounce on Hakeem and keep him content, confident, and placated. They've done a good job of suggesting that Hakeem is afraid of performing on his own -- he wants that other person with him there on stage -- most especially his super talented brother.  I think Lucious knows Hakeem well enough to know this -- and recognizes it as something that he suffered from too.  Hence his reliance on Cookie when he was starting out.  I got the feeling that the whole restaurant freak-out scene was to show that this is how Hakeem manages his building stage fright before a performance.  It's not just about trying to be gangsta, but a way of working himself up so he can get over.

 

(2) The look on Cookie's face when she walked into Lucious' house and saw the Klimt was so well-played,  You could see all the layers of anger and hurt and regret for everything she lost just washing over her.  And pretending she thought the painting was ugly was great. 

 

Whoever plays Andre is doing a bang-up job of showing that guy who knows he should be on his meds but is afraid that he won't be able to do what he thinks he needs to do to succeed if he's on them.  His brief moments of displaying the start of mania were very good.  The bib was great -- The bib and the rollers together?  Epic.

(1) Interesting, I hadn't considered that possibility.  TBH, I didn't pay attention to the initial brush off because I was (a) rolling my eyes too hard, (b) cringing in secondhand embarrassment for both of them, and ( c) trying to figure out how old she was supposed to be.  My impression, though, was that she dissed him as a lightweight, just a Daddy's boy playing at being a rapper.  Thus, the scene at the club as her realizing that he's the real deal (which, whatever and also yuck).  Possible Daddy machinations raise that to a whole other level.  At best, he would be trying to give Hakeem his own Cookie, an ally to help him succeed in the industry.  At worst, he's not only trying get rid of Hakeem's reliance on Jamal, but doing so in a way that reinforces Hakeem's heterosexuality.  Knowing Luscious, it's probably both.

 

(2)  Cosign.  I really love how the actors are bringing the layers and subtlety to these characters and moments.  Many people in my world are surprised that I enjoy this show and have been looking forward to it from the first ads with Cookie.  What drew me in and has kept me around is the strength of the characterization.  I hope they are able to maintain it.  (Note:  Thanks to Empire, I can now tell the difference between Terrance Howard and Tyler Perry.  Feel free to throw all the side-eye my way.)

 

See, I actually don't mind that Luscious hasn't just given the company to Andre.  I like Andre and I'm sure he is dedicated and seems to be good at business, but that doesn't necessarily translate to running a company.  I think that Luscious can recognize that in Andre.  He may view Andre as a great number 2 or 3 in the company hierarchy but not someone who should be the head.  Being good in business doesn't necessarily qualify you to run or be the head of your own company.  If that were the case every top executive would walk out the door tomorrow and start their own business.

 

Not that I think Hakeem is a better choice, but it seems to me like Jamal might be the required balance between the two.  Or at least Luscious is looking for someone who has "a balance".

Definitely.  I think Luscious is looking for the son who best combines the strengths of his parents.  Andre knows business, but Luscious feels that you can't know THIS business without having the creative talent.  I imagine that he doesn't want to leave the restaurant to the one son who can't cook, no matter what degree Andre has.