Spoilers With Speculation

[ILoveReading]

As much as I love Cas, I'd rather he stay dead if we don't get our Cas back.   I've already watched the brothers get to know him, I don't need to see it again.

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

it's Sam who resurrects AUCas and forms a 'profound bond' with him.

I would bet money on this, and also AltCas telling Dean that he and Sam share a more profound bond.

[CluelessDrifter]

9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I will go on record right now and bet money that if "S&D have to convince him that they know him", it will be Sam that he forms the bond with first. Because this show has never yet let Dean keep something that is only his. (Hell, Purgatory, jeez even the MoC for an almost-minute) And I know Cas & Sam grew close in later seasons, but it was Dean & Cas first. Wild speculation? Somehow, through his 'connection' with Jake, it's Sam who resurrects AUCas and forms a 'profound bond' with him.

I don't know if they can give Sam both AU!Cas and Jack, but who knows?  Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if you were right about AU!Cas being closer to Sam.  I only say that, because I came across an interview way back before the start of season 12 about things Jared and Jensen would like to see happen in season 12, and Jensen said he'd like see Purgatory again (and now we've got the AU that Jensen described as Purgatory-esque) and Jared said he'd like more scenes with Misha, so . . .

Edited May 21, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[Wayward Son]

10 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

I kind of figured this is the way it would go.  Cas got a chance to do his big death scene in 12.12.  Also, there was the foreshadowing with Twig!Alicia being a replacement for real Alicia.  She looked and sounded the same, but wasn't the same person just like an AU!Cas wouldn't be the same.  I think it actually creates better stories for Misha than he's had in a while if it's an AU!Cas, but I do think they should tell the fans of real!Cas out of respect for his character and hardcore fans.

Oh God, I hadn't even thought of the parallel between Twig!Alicia and AU!Cas, but now that you've mentioned it I can totally see it! 

 

And I totally agree they ought to let us know in advance. I've already said it, but I for one will not be watching next season if it's all about AU Cas getting to know the boys! And there might not be many of us, but I'm sure I'm not the only fan who'd feel that way. So better we know now than waste our time on any S13 episodes.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Do they really have much info on storylines right now?

Those aren`t very specific. An actor being told "we have big plans for that and that for your character next Season" isn`t that uncommon. And I think Misha would absolutely know if he comes back as a new character. 

Also yes, AU!Cas would become a Sam-character, that is a certainty for me.

What they MIGHT do, is have both AU!Cas for a mini-arc/an episode or two and then actual!Cas back. If say, they break into the AU-world in the Premiere or second episode, the "we meet AU!Cas" scenario could be very likely. Meanwhile actual!Cas could then be resurrected at the end of ep 2 or 3. It`s not a completely unlikely scenario.

[CluelessDrifter]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

And I totally agree they ought to let us know in advance. I've already said it, but I for one will not be watching next season if it's all about AU Cas getting to know the boys! And there might not be many of us, but I'm sure I'm not the only fan who'd feel that way. So better we know now than waste our time on any S13 episodes.

I can see why you wouldn't want to watch AU!Cas.  I really can.  But I also think it could be interesting, especially if he's a darker/slightly more evil version of the Cas we met in Season 4.  I don't think he'll be completely evil, because I think Cas in any universe is probably always one that the other angels, like Naomi, have to reprogram over and over again to fit in with their way of doing things, but anyone coming from a universe where wearing baby-ear necklaces is a normal thing for angels is going to be a little darker.  

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

. 

Also yes, AU!Cas would become a Sam-character, that is a certainty for me.

 

I doubt I will get past episode one in 13 if that happens. But I suspect your right. 

[CluelessDrifter]

7 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Those aren`t very specific. An actor being told "we have big plans for that and that for your character next Season" isn`t that uncommon. And I think Misha would absolutely know if he comes back as a new character. 

Also yes, AU!Cas would become a Sam-character, that is a certainty for me.

What they MIGHT do, is have both AU!Cas for a mini-arc/an episode or two and then actual!Cas back. If say, they break into the AU-world in the Premiere or second episode, the "we meet AU!Cas" scenario could be very likely. Meanwhile actual!Cas could then be resurrected at the end of ep 2 or 3. It`s not a completely unlikely scenario.

I've considered this as a possibility too.  I think Cas-fan backlash might be pretty strong, so they might bring him back, but I'm thinking it'll be longer than 2 or 3 episodes, more like half a season to a season if that's what happens.  It's hard to know, because they're just as likely to cut a story line short as they are to drag the ass out of one. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[gonzosgirrl]

21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

As much as I love Cas, I'd rather he stay dead if we don't get our Cas back.   I've already watched the brothers get to know him, I don't need to see it again.

I would bet money on this, and also AltCas telling Dean that he and Sam share a more profound bond.

Just for clarity, I said this based on other speculation that RealCas is still on the other side, and it was AUCas that came through and was killed.

[companionenvy]

I'd be interested in alt!Cas (or any alt!characters), but not as a replacement for our Cas, especially given that (if this is the end), he got a meaningless, anticlimactic death after years of screwups.  

If Sam does bond with alt!Cas more than Dean, I think it will be a) because Dean won't let an alt!Cas in and/or b)to twist the knife for Dean, and will ultimately lead to a reconciliation and deeper understanding between Dean and alt!Cas.

[DJG1122]

Misha Collins 21 hrs ago tweeted 1) Cass (or Cas) has a future.

[rue721]

How weird to see your bff get stabbed to death, and then meet someone else wearing his face. I wouldn't blame Dean if he's a little standoffish toward AU!Cas lol.

This show has already done that storyline with Claire, though, when she had to hang out with the angel wearing a meatsuit identical to her dead father's.

Poor Jimmy's Body. That thing has been through the ringer. Possessed, unpossessed, possessed again, blown up, recreated, filled with Leviathan souls, stuffed with crazy caused by Lucifer torture, created for an AU version of the possessor maybe...Damn.

[DittyDotDot]

8 minutes ago, rue721 said:

This show has already done that storyline with Claire, though, when she had to hang out with the angel wearing a meatsuit identical to her dead father's.

Oh, now this got me thinking...what if alternate universe Cass is in Claire's body? That actually has some interesting possibilities.

I refuse to believe the show would slap Cass fans in the face by replacing him with another Cass just to keep Misha on the show...again. It was equally insulting when they had Lucifer replace Cass in S10, so I hope they learned their lesson from it and wouldn't do it again. 

#CassLives   #IBelieveInTheLittleTreeTopper

ETA: BTW, I'm not even a Cass-girl, and I find it insulting.

Edited May 21, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

AU!Cas loses too much history.  

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, and I'm currently watching Misha's panel from yesterday and I found his comments about seeing Cass in S13 fascinating. He talks about Cass being transformed by this death and talks about the possibility of an alternate universe Cass. I don't know, sounds like our Cass survives somehow:

The comments start around the 6-minute mark.

[Idahoforspn]

1 hour ago, companionenvy said:

will ultimately lead to a reconciliation and deeper understanding between Dean and alt!Cas.

For me, that's a big YUCK!!! 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

Poor Jimmy's Body. That thing has been through the ringer. Possessed, unpossessed, possessed again, blown up, recreated, filled with Leviathan souls, stuffed with crazy caused by Lucifer torture, created for an AU version of the possessor maybe...Damn.

It's not Jimmy's meatsuit as of Swan Song when Samifer exploded Jimmy's vessel and Castiel at the molecular level. Chuck resurrected Castiel in his own meatsuit that happens to look like Jimmy.

[catrox14]

But Misha, Cas literally called the boys his family and that he loves them. He has at least a part time room in the Bunker.

Misha, what are you talking about?

LOL

[Wayward Son]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

But Misha, Cas literally called the boys his family and that he loves them. He has at least a part time room in the Bunker.

Misha, what are you talking about?

LOL

What did he say?

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

What did he say?

It's at the first part of the video I posted above. The question was about Cass and what he considers home. I hate to paraphrase because context and intonation makes a difference in these things.

ETA: The question starts around 2:30.

Edited May 21, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

What did he say?

Someone asked him what Cas considers home now and he said, that Cas went from having a home in Heaven to now being homeless.  He said that Cas never feels comfortable anywhere.

He said that the boys are probably what he feels most comfortable with and is as close to family as e as it gets. He also said they say home is where the heart is...so....but that nothing is really home for him, which I thought was kind of interesting.

Just my take on it.

Edited May 21, 2017 by catrox14
edited for clarity

[AwesomO4000]

3 hours ago, Idahoforspn said:

And, IMO, it will NOT be confusing and underdeveloped if it's a Sam storyline. 

Do you mean like the way that Sam's storyline with the BMoL this season was so well developed and made so much sense character-wise?

Despite @SueB's wonderful analysis on this board somewhere which made some sense, I would not exactly call Sam's story arc this season well-developed or even one that made sense if looked at too closely. There were some things about this season that I did enjoy, but Sam's BMoL storyline was not one of them.

And in my opinion, recently many of Sam's storylines aren't what I would call well-developed. Sam's season 8 arcs - both of them - are good examples. Season 9 wasn't anything to write home about either. Season 10 was a little better - if repetitive - and I don't think Sam really had one in season 11, except the Lucifer thing that was over in less than half the season and was fairly predictable. Weirdly season 11 was my favorite of the bunch, so I guess I'm actually happier if Sam doesn't have a storyline and instead gets some strong Sam-themed individual episodes.

Getting right down to it, I didn't think Sam's blood addiction storyline was entirely well-fleshed out either, since there were quite a few important missing moments, especially ones that had to do with motivation, and motivation, for me, is the most important thing in an arc.* If I don't understand why a character is doing something, what the character actually does loses some of it's meaning for me, though I realize this is not the case with everyone.

I thought that Sam's best and most fleshed out arcs were seasons 2 (motivation-wise anyway. The logistics not as much), 3 (straightforward), 5, 6 and 7. But for me it's been a long time since Sam had an arc that has been well-developed and/or not confusing. Your miles may vary.

* Which is an important distinction for me, because while say for example, others might find Dean's Amara storyline to be under-developed, for me the parts important to me - Dean's motivation and what he did with that motivation - came through just fine. I was perfectly fine with maybe even Amara not understanding what exactly was going on between her and Dean herself, since to me that would explain her wanting to understand her connection to Dean which was important to her learning about humanity through her connection with Dean.

But as always, I realize that miles vary.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Someone asked him what Cas considers home now and he said, that Cas went from having a home in Heaven to now being homeless.  He said that Cas never feels comfortable anywhere.

I can see why he wouldn`t consider the bunker his home. It`s at best part-time-rooming for him. And his physical "home" for millenia has been heaven. He has not regained anything to literally re-place that. Family yes but not a place.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Aeryn13

[SueB]

10 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Do you mean like the way that Sam's storyline with the BMoL this season was so well developed and made so much sense character-wise?

Despite @SueB's wonderful analysis on this board somewhere which made some sense, I would not exactly call Sam's story arc this season well-developed or even one that made sense if looked at too closely. There were some things about this season that I did enjoy, but Sam's BMoL storyline was not one of them.

 

My analysis was only for the one episode, but I think it was working series-level issue for Sam.  I see Season arcs as completely different.  Mary had a season character arc.  Sam & Dean's season arc was pretty much the same -- what's it like to get Mary in their lives and working with other hunters.  I don't think EITHER character were given definitive arcs.  They were given character challenges and we saw how they responded.  It's not the same thing IMO.

I suspect that part of the frustration w/ this season is a lack of clean ISOLATED arcs for the boys.  That didn't happen.  They were a "unit" this year for the most part IMO.  

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, SueB said:

AU!Cas loses too much history.  

I agree. I don't want Cas to be like Alt!Bobby who had no history with Sam and Dean; that actually killed my enjoyment of seeing Bobby again. I really hope that they don't go that route :(

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I can see why he wouldn`t consider the bunker his home. It`s at best part-time-rooming for him. And his physical "home" for millenia has been heaven. He has not regained anything to literally re-place that. Family yes but not a place.

 Cas rebelled against Heaven for humanity/Dean two or three times now.  It's not that Heaven kicked him out, he chose to not be with Heaven but side with humanity. He was accepted as a brother by the boys in s11. He himself said, 'I love you. I love you all. You're my family". Dean went to Cas'  in 12.19 as though he expected that Cas would be there even after they argued. I mean I had figured Cas had bailed out at that point, but for some reason aside from plotonium, Dean expected to find Cas in that room. 

Misha's words were rather surprising to me given all that has happened in s12. Maybe he's saying it because of something coming up with Cas in s13 that has changed Cas' perspective.

[Idahoforspn]

2 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Do you mean like the way that Sam's storyline with the BMoL this season was so well developed and made so much sense character-wise?

Despite @SueB's wonderful analysis on this board somewhere which made some sense, I would not exactly call Sam's story arc this season well-developed or even one that made sense if looked at too closely. There were some things about this season that I did enjoy, but Sam's BMoL storyline was not one of them.

And in my opinion, recently many of Sam's storylines aren't what I would call well-developed. Sam's season 8 arcs - both of them - are good examples. Season 9 wasn't anything to write home about either. Season 10 was a little better - if repetitive - and I don't think Sam really had one in season 11, except the Lucifer thing that was over in less than half the season and was fairly predictable. Weirdly season 11 was my favorite of the bunch, so I guess I'm actually happier if Sam doesn't have a storyline and instead gets some strong Sam-themed individual episodes.

Getting right down to it, I didn't think Sam's blood addiction storyline was entirely well-fleshed out either, since there were quite a few important missing moments, especially ones that had to do with motivation, and motivation, for me, is the most important thing in an arc.* If I don't understand why a character is doing something, what the character actually does loses some of it's meaning for me, though I realize this is not the case with everyone.

I thought that Sam's best and most fleshed out arcs were seasons 2 (motivation-wise anyway. The logistics not as much), 3 (straightforward), 5, 6 and 7. But for me it's been a long time since Sam had an arc that has been well-developed and/or not confusing. Your miles may vary.

* Which is an important distinction for me, because while say for example, others might find Dean's Amara storyline to be under-developed, for me the parts important to me - Dean's motivation and what he did with that motivation - came through just fine. I was perfectly fine with maybe even Amara not understanding what exactly was going on between her and Dean herself, since to me that would explain her wanting to understand her connection to Dean which was important to her learning about humanity through her connection with Dean.

But as always, I realize that miles vary.

I actually agree that the writing for Sam hasn't been stellar either. I  feel the writers have been trying to give Sam the stronger storyline but really have problems with the execution. For example,  I know a lot of folks loved Red Meat but, for me, the coming back from the dead and continued superhuman feats just took me  totally out of the story. I would have felt they were ridiculous if Dean had been given  that part of the story too. It was, IMO, written to give Sam some hero moments but the execution, so over over over the top, failed. As far as the Dean Amara storyline, when Jensen asked the writers for some guidance, they couldn't give him any because they apparently hadn't given that sl much thought. They were at least trying to flesh out Sam's story line.

In some ways, I think the writers/ showrunner have screwed both characters. Just, IMO, it's been more intentional with Dean.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Cas rebelled against Heaven for humanity/Dean two or three times now.  It's not that Heaven kicked him out, he chose to not be with Heaven but side with humanity.

Yes but that still doesn`t replace heaven as a literal physical home. Which is my take on why he described Cas as "homeless". The Winchesters were homeless in the same way for many years in the show after their initial home in Lawrence burned down. Now the bunker appears to be home but it took what, nearly 35 years to find that? Cas hasn`t been "homeless" for even half that long.

To me making (non-blood) family and "home is where the heart is" stuff is still different to having a place you can comfortably call home. Not people, a place.  

[DittyDotDot]

30 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Misha's words were rather surprising to me given all that has happened in s12. Maybe he's saying it because of something coming up with Cas in s13 that has changed Cas' perspective.

I just look at it this way, I left home when I was 17, haven't even lived in the same state for almost 20 years, but I still think of it as home. I've loved many of the places I've lived and could see myself staying there for the rest of my life, but I still consider home to be where I grew up and where my mother still lives. 

He did say Sam and Dean are the closest thing to home for Cass, but I think Misha was talking more about Cass not feeling like he really fits anywhere anymore. He rebelled against Heaven and every time he's tried to go back it's not been a welcoming place. It's definitely not his home even though it's what he knows and he's around his "kind." And, while he's welcomed in the bunker, he's still an angel among humans. It's not his place where he can just kick back in underwear. Okay, I'm sure he could literally kick back in his underwear, but you know what I mean. 

This is why I think it would be great if they did a "Weekend at Castiel's." It would be really nice to give Cass a place that's his. Not necessarily an apartment or a house, but somewhere he goes when he's not with the boys. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, Idahoforspn said:

I actually agree that the writing for Sam hasn't been stellar either. I  feel the writers have been trying to give Sam the stronger storyline but really have problems with the execution. For example,  I know a lot of folks loved Red Meat but, for me, the coming back from the dead and continued superhuman feats just took me  totally out of the story. I would have felt they were ridiculous if Dean had been given  that part of the story too. It was, IMO, written to give Sam some hero moments but the execution, so over over over the top, failed. As far as the Dean Amara storyline, when Jensen asked the writers for some guidance, they couldn't give him any because they apparently hadn't given that sl much thought. They were at least trying to flesh out Sam's story line.

In some ways, I think the writers/ showrunner have screwed both characters. Just, IMO, it's been more intentional with Dean.

Good points here - I took the discussion over to the "All Episodes" thread.

[Idahoforspn]

21 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Good points here - I took the discussion over to the "All Episodes" thread.

I will respond there a little later. We actually agree on a lot.

[rue721]

16 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I just look at it this way, I left home when I 17, haven't even lived in the same state for almost 20 years, but I still think of it as home. I've loved many of the places I've lived and could see myself staying there for the rest of my life, but I still consider home to be where I grew up and where my mother still lives. 

That's funny, I'm the opposite. My parents' home hasn't been my home since I was a kid. I have stayed with them multiple times as an adult for various family-related reasons, live in my hometown now and for the foreseeable (where they also live), and have poured thousands of dollars into furnishing and fixing up their current house (so it is filled with stuff -- couch, TV, chairs, rugs, carpeting, the paint on the walls, etc, that I choose, bought, and installed/set up myself), but it's still "my parents' house" in my mind, not "home." My only connection with the house is through them -- I don't really have any emotional connection to the place myself. Granted, I didn't grow up there, though (we moved there when I was a teenager in high school). And I did consider the places we lived as a family before that, when I was a younger kid, to be "home" (or at least, at the time we lived there I did).

Conversely, though, a couple years ago, I went on a roadtrip -- and visited with @AwesomO4000 in Georgia *waves* -- and I got to feeling very lonely and homesick along the way. I was making the trip mostly to go see a very old friend (from middle/high school) in Alabama, and it was my first real trip to the South. My friend in Alabama didn't even have her own apartment yet, her work was still putting her up at an Embassy Suites or something. Anyway, so I'm driving to Huntsville feeling all homesick, and then I get to my friend's hotel room -- and she opens the door wearing an old T-shirt from our high school volleyball team, with her hair in a scarf, and with some 90s-sounding R&B or something playing on the radio, and I was just awash in this feeling like AHHHHHH I AM HOME! As soon as she opened that door, my homesickness vanished ;) I mean, it's sort of the people that make the home into a *home* -- but there's also a sort of je ne sais quoi that's required in order to get that "home" feeling, too? Like, just a feeling of deep familiarity that's not just about the person, but also about the...well, about some kind of "je ne sais quoi" factor, I guess? Can't really articulate it.

Anyway, so it doesn't seem strange to me that Cas would on the one hand consider the boys family and at the same time not feel at home in the bunker. I think that Misha says he's "homeless" because Cas hasn't found his place in the world, and he doesn't have that bone-deep familiarity yet maybe. On that same token, though, I also find it strange that the Winchesters do consider the bunker home nowadays. I mean, I had assumed that "home" meant the Impala for them, and kept assuming that well after they'd moved into the bunker -- but then Sam referred to the bunker as "home," and I was shocked but figured I'd better accept that the bunker really was their home nowadays, and not just a place they were staying! YMMV.

ETA:  and what a thoughtful and cool question from that woman at the con! Glad she asked Misha about Cas's concept of home, that's really not something I'd ever even thought about before.

[DittyDotDot]

4 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Anyway, so it doesn't seem strange to me that Cas would on the one hand consider the boys family and at the same time not feel at home in the bunker. I think that Misha says he's "homeless" because Cas hasn't found his place in the world, and he doesn't have that bone-deep familiarity yet maybe. 

That's basically what I was trying to say. 

5 minutes ago, rue721 said:

On that same token, though, I also find it strange that the Winchesters do consider the bunker home nowadays. I mean, I had assumed that "home" meant the Impala for them, and kept assuming that well after they'd moved into the bunker -- but then Sam referred to the bunker as "home," and I was shocked but figured I'd better accept that the bunker really was their home nowadays, and not just a place they were staying! YMMV.

Yeah, I don't really get the home vibe from the bunker either. To me, the road and Baby is their home and always will be. One of the many reasons I've never been too keen on the bunker in the first place.

[rue721]

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Yeah, I don't really get the home vibe from the bunker either. To me, the road and Baby is their home and always will be. One of the many reasons I've never been too keen on the bunker in the first place.

Yeah, I hear you

[DJG1122]

17 hours ago, Binns said:

Watching JIBcon vids and I'm 99% sure JP meant to spill the beans re Misha. 

I think so too. All JP or JA had to say was 'we filmed this before we filmed the finale' for it to be believable.

[Binns]

5 hours ago, CluelessDrifter said:

I can see why you wouldn't want to watch AU!Cas.  I really can.  But I also think it could be interesting, especially if he's a darker/slightly more evil version of the Cas we met in Season 4.  I don't think he'll be completely evil, because I think Cas in any universe is probably always one that the other angels, like Naomi, have to reprogram over and over again to fit in with their way of doing things, but anyone coming from a universe where wearing baby-ear necklaces is a normal thing for angels is going to be a little darker.  

S4 Cas is my favorite Cas (I think I said S5 before by accident) so I would be interested to see AU Cas especially if he's a badass. But I'm not as interested to see the same gradual neutering that Original Recipe Cas underwent. 

[DJG1122]

7 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So, how much of this turned out to be accurate?

• Get ready to say goodbye! Someone you’ve come to love will die, permanently thanks to Lucifer, so prepare to say goodbye. 
• There is another death, too, but for a minor character.

Well technically, Lucifer killed Rowena and Cas. Crowley killed himself. Is the minor character Kelly? Ketch? Lady Twat? Maybe she revealed the actual characters in her PMs, but as this reads, it isn't even a spoiler.

So overall, this 'source' was a pretty big fail, no?

It doesn't say Lucifer will kill someone you've come to love, it says someone will die permanently thanks to Lucifer. Crowley killed himself for a spell on Lucifer. So, thanks to Lucifer, Crowley is permanently dead. The only thing I've seen from Mark Shephard's twitter is a response to the question of why he wasn't at JIBcon. He said he wasn't invited. Misha obviously was, because he was there. I'm wondering if there may have been contract disputes or 'creative differences' but apparently Crowley is really gone. Another death for a minor character would be Rowena. This closes that plot line.

[DeeDee79]

3 hours ago, DJG1122 said:

I'm wondering if there may have been contract disputes or 'creative differences' but apparently Crowley is really gone.

That sucks so much! I'll really miss Crowley :(

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

I just look at it this way, I left home when I was 17, haven't even lived in the same state for almost 20 years, but I still think of it as home. I've loved many of the places I've lived and could see myself staying there for the rest of my life, but I still consider home to be where I grew up and where my mother still lives. 

Heh. My "home" is where my stuff - and my hubby! - is. I love my current home, and it feels more like home to me than even the home I lived in growing up does now, but if I had to move, as long as I could have my "stuff," I think my new home would soon become "home."

For me my "stuff" is my photographs, the things I collect, my few childhood things I have saved, my books, my art, etc. Those are the things that are "mine" and "hubby's" and that I/we chose for whatever reason. They are my feeling of "home."

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, DJG1122 said:

It doesn't say Lucifer will kill someone you've come to love, it says someone will die permanently thanks to Lucifer. Crowley killed himself for a spell on Lucifer. So, thanks to Lucifer, Crowley is permanently dead. The only thing I've seen from Mark Shephard's twitter is a response to the question of why he wasn't at JIBcon. He said he wasn't invited. Misha obviously was, because he was there. I'm wondering if there may have been contract disputes or 'creative differences' but apparently Crowley is really gone. Another death for a minor character would be Rowena. This closes that plot line.

As with just about everything SPN, I guess it's open to interpretation but for me, that's splitting a pretty fine hair. I absolutely took it to mean that someone would die at Lucifer's hand - and two characters did. Crowley died because Crowley chose to die. Regardless, these 'leaks' on the whole were either wrong, already common knowledge, or so vague as to be 'right' if you squint just right.

ETA: Has Mark S ever been at JIBcon?

ETA2: As the female with the most appearances on the show, I wouldn't count Rowena as a minor character. I would guess for the purposes of these 'spoilers' that was either Kelly or Ketch.

Edited May 21, 2017 by gonzosgirrl
clarification

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, DJG1122 said:

I think so too. All JP or JA had to say was 'we filmed this before we filmed the finale' for it to be believable.

But what would be the point of JP doing that when the show is being so vague? I mean why would he spoil another character's SL

[Wayward Son]

25 minutes ago, DJG1122 said:

It doesn't say Lucifer will kill someone you've come to love, it says someone will die permanently thanks to Lucifer. Crowley killed himself for a spell on Lucifer. So, thanks to Lucifer, Crowley is permanently dead. The only thing I've seen from Mark Shephard's twitter is a response to the question of why he wasn't at JIBcon. He said he wasn't invited. Misha obviously was, because he was there. I'm wondering if there may have been contract disputes or 'creative differences' but apparently Crowley is really gone. Another death for a minor character would be Rowena. This closes that plot line.

Initially I was very indignant on behalf of the Crowley / Mark fans since it seemed like an unfair move to not invite him and give Italian fans an opportunity to see Mark S if he really is leaving the show! Then I remembered the con organisers are seperate to the show and probably hadn't a clue about the finale storylines! 

Still, even as a major Misha fan, seems a bit unfair to me that Mark wasn't invited when he is / was billed as a regular like Misha! 

[DittyDotDot]

20 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

ETA: Has Mark S ever been at JIBcon?

I believe he was there last year. Not sure if he's been a regular there or not though. My memory is failing me right now.

20 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

ETA2: As the female with the most appearances on the show, I wouldn't count Rowena as a minor character. I would guess for the purposes of these 'spoilers' that was either Kelly or Ketch.

Yeah, I would expect it was Kelly since Ketch died in the previous episode. If I felt like the spoiler was credible, I'd say the character we've come to love was Rowena. But since I'm staunchly sticking my head in the sand about all the deaths--and a lot of the other "spoilers" didn't seem credible--I'm gonna dismiss it altogether. De Nile is a wonderful place the be. ;)

34 minutes ago, DJG1122 said:

The only thing I've seen from Mark Shephard's twitter is a response to the question of why he wasn't at JIBcon. He said he wasn't invited.

Wow, that's interesting. I wonder why they didn't invite him? The show and the con organizers are completely separate so I don't think it lends any credence to Crowley being dead, just seems kinda odd. Plus, tickets for those things are bought months in advance--like almost a year for some people--so they would've had to book their guests long before the story had been worked out.

[gonzosgirrl]

Total speculation here, but I wonder if the reason Mark doesn't do (or wasn't invited to) JIB is a clash in their format and how he like to do things - ie, wandering through the crowd instead of staying/sitting on stage. No clue - just a guess.

 

ETA: Just saw @DittyDotDot's post. So he has been there before.  Nevermind....

Edited May 21, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[DittyDotDot]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Total speculation here, but I wonder if the reason Mark doesn't do (or wasn't invited to) JIB is a clash in their format and how he like to do things - ie, wandering through the crowd instead of staying/sitting on stage. No clue - just a guess.

JIB con is pretty loose, IMO. It doesn't seem like they frown upon much of anything, but it could be. I don't know that I've seen anyone wandering through the crowd during their panels, but I've never thought about it either.

[SueB]

They never invite either Rob or Rich (ONE of the two) to AHBL ... so, it's just weird with these other cons. 

Mark's on the Creation schedule through 2017 and into 2018.

Cons don't get ANY intel about the shows other than what the boys tell them when they sign for specific convention.  And I think they sign up on a yearly basis for X-locations.  

So, Mark not at JIBCon is not related.  However BOTH Mark & Ruth will be at the Con in two weeks in Phoenix (I think it's Phoenix). AWKWARD.  

Actually, the ONE con that is a portent of who is on the show is San Diego Comic Con. That is specifically about teasing the next year.  This year it's back to the third week of July, so hopefully we'll get a sizzle real this year.  Last year it was too early to have any footage (or was that the year before...*wanders off to find caffeine**).

[MysteryGuest]

I wonder if it's strictly a budgetary thing with Jibcon?  They have to pay all of these actors to be there, and they want the big names to draw the most people.  I don't know if Mark is popular at the cons, but I'm betting he's not as popular as Jensen, Jared and Misha.  The rest of the people invited to fill out the cast probably don't earn  anywhere near as much as the main cast members do.  So if they want to attract as many people as possible, but not have to pay out a bunch of big salaries, maybe that's why they weren't all invited.  

[Jonesy]

17 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Oh God, I hadn't even thought of the parallel between Twig!Alicia and AU!Cas, but now that you've mentioned it I can totally see it! 

 

And I totally agree they ought to let us know in advance. I've already said it, but I for one will not be watching next season if it's all about AU Cas getting to know the boys! And there might not be many of us, but I'm sure I'm not the only fan who'd feel that way. So better we know now than waste our time on any S13 episodes.

You keep thinking OUR Cas is dead for good and we are only getting AU Cas--BUT Misha has said CAS has a future...not AU Cas BUT our Cas.  So don't worry.  The only possible worry would be how would this "death" effect Cas as Misha talks about in the video of his JiB Panel...where he again emphasizes OUR Cas is back.  I suspect(even know!) the death won't completely change Cas but will effect him.  And just to add A LOT of fans who love CAS want the REAL Cas back--thankfully that happens.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Jakes

[The Morning Star]

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

You keep thinking OUR Cas is dead for good and we are only getting AU Cas--BUT Misha has said CAS has a future...not AU Cas BUT our Cas.  So don't worry.  The only possible worry would be how would this "death" effect Cas as Misha talks about in the video of his JiB Panel...where he again emphasizes OUR Cas is back.  I suspect(even know!) the death won't completely change Cas but will effect him.  And just to add A LOT of fans who love CAS want the REAL Cas back--thankfully that happens.

He said and I'm quoting "Cas (or Cas) has a future".

He used or....not and.

[Geordiegirl1967]

56 minutes ago, The Morning Star said:

He said and I'm quoting "Cas (or Cas) has a future".

He used or....not and.

Wasn't he differentiating between the 2 spellings (Cas/Cass) when he said 'or'?

But either way this doesn't mean the character of Cas we've always had will still be around. It could mean AU Cas, or some other version. I think all we can take from this is that the actor Misha still has a job on the show. Who / what he will be playing is another matter.

The other thing to bear in mind is that, apart from the SD ep - which is nearly certain to be a standalone/fantasy/in their heads type of ep - nothing of s13 is yet written. The writers are barely back at work. So the actors really don't know much at this point.

[Jonesy]

1 hour ago, The Morning Star said:

He said and I'm quoting "Cas (or Cas) has a future".

He used or....not and.

He was only talking about the 2 spellings of Cas or Cass.  Making a joke of those insisting on one spelling.

7 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Wasn't he differentiating between the 2 spellings (Cas/Cass) when he said 'or'?

But either way this doesn't mean the character of Cas we've always had will still be around. It could mean AU Cas, or some other version. I think all we can take from this is that the actor Misha still has a job on the show. Who / what he will be playing is another matter.

The other thing to bear in mind is that, apart from the SD ep - which is nearly certain to be a standalone/fantasy/in their heads type of ep - nothing of s13 is yet written. The writers are barely back at work. So the actors really don't know much at this point.

No he said Cas has a future(au Cas is not Cas)--not Misha.  He says in his panel that Cas is transformed and changed by his death THEN he talks about there is ALSO AU possibilities out there too.  BUT he specifically talks about CAS being back first.   He made that clear in the panel.