Spoilers With Speculation

[DittyDotDot]

17 minutes ago, auntvi said:

Because he's talking about how good Samantha Smith is and how many kleenex we'll need, I think they're killing Mary. I hope I'm wrong.

That's my theory too. I think Lucifer kills her horribly. I too hope I'm wrong. I know she's disliked around here, but I have enjoyed how Mary's resurrection has shook some things up. And, I'd like to see her stick around.

Although, Rowena is a possibility too, but she's been MIA for so long that I have a hard time really believing they'd bring her in just to kill her. It wouldn't be the first time they've done this sort of thing though ::cough:: Ellen and Jo ::cough::

Also, the more I think about it, the more I agree with @Mick Lady, the mystery person is very likely not-so-marvy Marv. I remember last season when he died I was sure he'd be back since he's basically heaven's Crowley and Crowley never dies. Sorry Mark Sheppard, I don't believe you one bit. ;)

[DeansDorkyAngel]

So basically these so called 'legit spoilers' was nothing but a huge pile of crap. 

I am so pissed with the show.

[gonzosgirrl]

Well, some of those 'inside' spoilers were right, but a lot of it was bullshit.

FWIW I think Crowley's death is legit, and come 13x01 either Sam's gonna get powers and bring Cas back, or the Nephilim is.

[ILoveReading]

Im guessing Jack in going to resurrect his Poppa Cas.

[Boopsahoy]

12 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Im guessing Jack in going to resurrect his Poppa Cas.

That's what my husband said. Jackifer knows Kelly loved Cas so.... And if Crowley is gone forever I will be vey upset.

[bmoore4026]

8 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

That would fit with the Scooby-Doo ep, imo - as it was the Trickster who sent them to TVLand.  Maybe he sends them to CartoonLand.  

All I know is I want a musical number shoehorned in during the climatic monster chase, repeating scenery, Frank Welker dubbing over whoever plays Fred, and Linda Cardellini back as Velma.

[Wayward Son]

With Cas and Crowley dead could we be in for a final season announcement? 

I couldn't see the J's agreeing to a s1-3 type of schedule long term, but I could certainly see them agreeing if it was definitely for one year and one year only. 

[Mick Lady]

*Hangs head in shame*

Okay, I was wrong, damn it! But I hated both episodes, so there's that...

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, Mick Lady said:

*Hangs head in shame*

Okay, I was wrong, damn it! But I hated both episodes, so there's that...

I was right about Dean using the grenade launcher to get out of the bunker! But still hated the episode except for Ackles acting.

[nightwing877]

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

With Cas and Crowley dead could we be in for a final season announcement? 

I couldn't see the J's agreeing to a s1-3 type of schedule long term, but I could certainly see them agreeing if it was definitely for one year and one year only. 

Me either, unless the show dropped 23 episodes and did 16 for here on out. Can't see that happening. 

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

With Cas and Crowley dead could we be in for a final season announcement? 

I couldn't see the J's agreeing to a s1-3 type of schedule long term, but I could certainly see them agreeing if it was definitely for one year and one year only. 

They already had the Upfronts before the finale aired. If they planned for a final S13 it would have been announced there, just like Smallville was. The fact that both Js were in NYC and on stage and no Final Season Announcement makes it unlikely one is pending. Unless contract negotiation for S14 break down or ratings tank.

As for Crowley/Cas being dead dead (exiting the show), I have my doubts.

Brought over from episode thread and expanded on.

I lean towards Crowley being dead dead (no longer on SPN) while Cas just being mostly dead (brought back in some capacity) but, I really don't think they're both gone.

I'm guessing S13 will deal with Lil Luci and getting Mary back. However, I'm also guessing that AU, time travel, etc will all come into play. You don't just introduce a space/time rift/AU in the season finale for no reason. Not only that, you don't introduce said space/time/AU and lock 2 characters up in the AU not to bring it back in play.

Maybe Lil Luci is going to start causing these rifts all over the place and we'll get different versions of Cas/Crowley showing up?  Maybe Alt. Bobby, Alt. Castiel and Alt. Crowley all come over from Doom World? Maybe there's a time reset, Etc.?

I don't know but, death became meaningless on SPN in S2.  Is it possible that both Crowley/Mark and Cas/Misha have exited the show and will never be seen again or only pop up once in awhile like Bobby? Absolutely. I just don't see it right now.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Geordiegirl1967]

4 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

With Cas and Crowley dead could we be in for a final season announcement? 

if they were going to do that for s13 they'd have done it at the upfronts. 

[Wayward Son]

4 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

if they were going to do that for s13 they'd have done it at the upfronts. 

Hmm maybe, but then maybe they didn't want to announce that before the finale! And they could save it for SDCC instead!

If the show is on longer than a year I'll be interested to see what they do now! One of the main reasons Misha and Mark were promoted was to allow Jensen and Jared time off. However, with Cas, Crowley and Rowena now all dead they've severely limited their replacement options. They could perhaps promote Samantha Smith (assuming Mary is rescued from bizarro world), but that's only one of the regulars replaced. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Wayward Son

[nightwing877]

7 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

if they were going to do that for s13 they'd have done it at the upfronts. 

Could be at comic con or confirmed later on. 

4 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Hmm maybe, but then maybe they didn't want to announce that before the finale! And they could save it for SDCC instead!

If the show is on longer than a year I'll be interested to see what they do now! One of the main reasons Misha and Mark were promoted was to allow Jensen and Jared time off. However, with Cas, Crowley and Rowena now all dead they've severely limited their replacement options. They could perhaps promote Samantha Smith (assuming Mary is rescued from bizarro world), but that's only one of the regulars replaced. 

I don't see it, I doubt all of them are dead. I think Cas is the most likely to come back out of him, Crowley and Rowena being dead for good. The only thing they could do to give the J's time off, is to cut down the season from 23 episodes to 16 episodes. But that won't be happening. 

Unless we spend time in this other world with Bobby, Mary and Lucifer and meet other characters like Rufus, Ellen or Jo who are alive in here to give the J's time off. I still think Cas will be back, if they keep Crowley and Rowena dead. 

[Morrigan2575]

44 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Hmm maybe, but then maybe they didn't want to announce that before the finale! And they could save it for SDCC instead!

 

36 minutes ago, nightwing877 said:

Could be at comic con or confirmed later on. 

It's possible but, it seems unlikely that they'd have the Js at Upfronts and not announce it (if that was the plan).

Obviously negotiations could fail between now and SDCC so we get a final announcement there. However, i think that if the plan was to make S13 the final season, when writing (March) or filming (April) the season 12 finale they'd have made the announcement this morning. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[ParadoxLost]

I am more convinced that Crowley and Cas aren't dead because there weren't a bunch of exit interviews being held until airing that have popped up.  So far its radio silence.  Misha has tweeted about it being his 100th episode but deliberately careful in talking about what happened in it.  This is not what happens when actors actually exit a show (see OUAT).

In the inevitable press about this, if anyone is at all cryptic about their departure then they aren't departing.  So we'll see.

At a minimum, I would think that AU Crowley and Cas replace "dead" Crowley and Cas on the show and Mark and Misha stay.

[gonzosgirrl]

We'll probably never know the truth, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that Mark asked to be written out after this abomination of a season for the character. Through no fault of his, I literally cringed watching some of those Luci/Crowley scenes.   I think Mark is the second best actor on the show, and he's certainly gotten lots of work outside of SPN. Frankly, this seemed like a mercy killing.

[bozodegama]

Please, there is absolutely no chance the show killed Cass.  Even if they did, Dean would spend all of next season looking for him and prob get Chuck to bring him back.  After the whole season's arc being about how Cass is their family and their brother, there is no chance Dean would leave a dead brother anywhere without tearing up heaven, hell and whereever to find him.  I really doubt Crowley and Rowena are dead but it's possible if they're going to bring alternative Bobby back.  They need characters besides Sam and Dean and they haven't build up any new characters.  They have to start thinking of an ending Butch and Sundance style. That;'s the only way the show ends, like Angel.  I still love the show but even I think it's getting a little foolish and i usually love all the episodes.

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

I am more convinced that Crowley and Cas aren't dead because there weren't a bunch of exit interviews being held until airing that have popped up.  So far its radio silence.  Misha has tweeted about it being his 100th episode but deliberately careful in talking about what happened in it.  This is not what happens when actors actually exit a show (see OUAT).

I checked SpoilerTV as soon as the episode ended they had nothing, which is very unusual and leads me to believe the characters/actor's aren't gone.

I think we might deal with other versions of the characters next season (from Doom World) or maybe Lil Luci keeps ripping open time/space and altering the real world so we getting different versions of the characters.

[ILoveReading]

https://bloodstained-porcelain-doll.tumblr.com/post/160834770815/season-13

I saw this listed on Tumblr.

Not sure how accurate it is but it lists Jensen, Jared, Misha and Mark P as regulars for next season.

They also show the guy playing Jack. 

I wonder if it wasn't Cas that was killled but the bizzaro world Cas came thought the portal and the real Cas is trapped with Mary and Lucifer.

[Geordiegirl1967]

1 hour ago, bozodegama said:

Even if they did, Dean would spend all of next season looking for him and prob get Chuck to bring him back.  After the whole season's arc being about how Cass is their family and their brother, there is no chance Dean would leave a dead brother anywhere without tearing up heaven, hell and whereever to find him.  

Except Cas has been gone before and he has never done that. He was awol for weeks this season. He could have been in all sorts of trouble but all Dean did was keep leaving him voicemails. He didn't try to get him back after the Leviathans looked to have killed him either. There is no evidence in the show that Dean would go to the same lengths for Cas that he has been shown to go to for Sam. 

And I don't think it is true to say that the "whole season's arc" has been "about how Cass is their family and their brother". It has been more about their relationship with their mother. I'm not saying they don't care about Cas. But I can't agree that it has been a major theme or arc this season. 

6 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I wonder if it wasn't Cas that was killled but the bizzaro world Cas came thought the portal and the real Cas is trapped with Mary and Lucifer.

That's a possibility. Though there wasn't much time and he would have had to have had the exact same choice of wardrobe which seems unlikely. 

Maybe the Nephilim can turn back time? I think he had a bond with Cas so he might want him back. 

[rue721]

1 hour ago, bozodegama said:

Even if they did, Dean would spend all of next season looking for him and prob get Chuck to bring him back.

I don't think so. Dean didn't even do that for his dad. And he hasn't done that for Cas before. Right or wrong, I think he would grieve and let him go.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, bozodegama said:

there is no chance Dean would leave a dead brother anywhere without tearing up heaven, hell and whereever to find him.

Remember Adam?  (Sorry, I had to say it...)    

[ILoveReading]

20 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

He could have been in all sorts of trouble but all Dean did was keep leaving him voicemails

He was also checking morgues and jails to see if Cas turned up.   He spent more time trying to find Cas then he did helping Sam do research.  Every opening Dean was leaving voicemails because he was worried. 

I've never been a fan of Dean thinking his life is inferior to Sam's so if he doesn't make a deal, Im okay with that.  I know that Dean will take a bullet for Cas.  Him not eating one for Cas, doesn't mean that he just sees Cas as just a friend or that he doesn't consider Cas a brother.  

We saw him stay longer in purgatory because he refused to leave without Cas and we also him risk getting trapped in Earth 2.0.    His grief was very real in that last scene.  His look to the sky, IMO, was him asking Chuck to bring Cas back.  Then he didn't even follow Sam into the house.  He seemed froze with grief. 

IMO, selling your  soul isn't the only way to prove you love (I'm talking familial love) someone. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by ILoveReading

[Geordiegirl1967]

29 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

He was also checking morgues and jails to see if Cas turned up.  

Maybe. But he certainly wasn't 

1 hour ago, bozodegama said:

tearing up heaven, hell and whereever to find him

Yes he was worried. Yes he cares about Cas. So, by the way, does Sam. Yes they would both have taken a bullet for him. And yes of course Dean's grief was real when Cas died. 

I wasn't trying to argue that Dean doesn't care a lot about Cas. Of course he does / did. The specific statement I was responding to implied he would sell his soul, open up dimensions, go to heaven/ hell etc to find him as he has done for Sam. I don't think he would. IMO he wouldn't do that for anyone other than Sam. He didn't do it for John or Bobby for example. The evidence in the show confirms that. We can only judge him by his past actions on this. 

In my opinion (I know others disagree and I respect that) there is a pecking order for Dean. It goes; Sam................................Cas/Mary/Bobby/John.......other people. I think the evidence from the way we have seen Dean react to different situations in the show strongly supports my view that Sam is in a category all of his own at the top of Dean's list and the lengths he would go to save Sam are on a different level. 

Again though and to be clear - I am not claiming Dean doesn't care about and won't grieve for Cas. 

[DittyDotDot]

11 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

*Hangs head in shame*

Okay, I was wrong, damn it! But I hated both episodes, so there's that...

I neither hated nor liked them, but you had me convinced it would be not-so-marvy Marv so hanging my head in shame with you. 

Although, I did properly call the grenade launcher getting them out of the bunker and that Lady Toni was toast... . ;)

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't know but, death became meaningless on SPN in S2.  Is it possible that both Crowley/Mark and Cas/Misha have exited the show and will never be seen again or only pop up once in awhile like Bobby? Absolutely. I just don't see it right now.

Yeah, I don't buy that anyone who died in the finale will stay dead other than Kelly. I think the Devil spawn will fix Cass. Rowena has that spell in her leg, she's pretty much immortal. Crowley always has an ace up his sleeve. I'll believe these deaths when they don't show up next season. 

38 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Remember Adam?  (Sorry, I had to say it...)    

Bwahahahah!!! ;)

[ILoveReading]

13 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Maybe. But he certainly wasn't 

He was.  He mentioned it at the start of The Memory Remains.

Sam says lets find him.

Dean says that he's been trying.  The GPS on his phone is off, and there was no reports of anyone getting arrested or turning up dead.   So he was doing more than just phoning Cas.

[SueB]

So TVine has the butcher's toll as:
35. AIRED May 18: Castiel/Supernatural
36. AIRED May 18: Crowley/Supernatural
37. AIRED May 18: Ketch/Supernatural
38. AIRED May 18: Toni/Supernatural
39. AIRED May 18: Dr. Hess/Supernatural
40. AIRED May 18: Rowena/Supernatural
41. AIRED May 18: Kelly/Supernatural

 

Based on what we've seen, Mark Shepard seems most likely to be truly GONE.  Mark played that scene like an "epic Death scene". Crowley had COMPLETELY become part of Team Free Will, including self-sacrifice entry fee.  Crowley was content going out as "one of the boys" while simultaneously screwing Luci.

But I think the boys (J2), probably required two regulars to keep hours reasonable.  That leaves (IMO) Mary to replace Mark and Misha to come back as Alternate Universe Cas.  Rowena may or maynot show up (from the AU).  This pisses me off because I wanted a heartfelt tribute to REAL Cas.  We may still get that.

Still, we've got a couple of structural resolutions required -- Jack, Mary in AU and his Daddy still alive (and in AU).

So... my "first thoughts" scenario for next year:

- Jack can't bring back Cas, even though the Winchesters ask. So they focus on asking Jack to help get back to AU.  
- Mary and Luci are geared up when "da da dummmmm" AU!Cas shows up to attack Luci. He's uber an bad-ass Cas w/ full Wings.
- The boys will make it back to AU in 13.1 and out by 13.3.  They have to kill or trap Luci,  during this so they enlist the aid of AU!Bobby, Mary, AU!Cas and MAYBE AU!Rowena. Jack goes with them.
- By the end of EP 13.3, the Lucifer threat is contained, AU!Cas and Mary come back to the real universe, and Jack stays with AU!Bobby in the AU.  AU!Bobby will raise Jack and create a paradise in the AU that Cas saw.
- S13 will then have Dean/AU!Cas conflicts as this is NOT Dean's Cas but there's some similarities. Sam will roll with it, while mourning the real Cas.
- Mary will be back as a regular in the real universe.  She will be tied to the boys but not on every hunt and not baking pies.

This:
- Removes the "incompetent Hell" plot
- Revitalizes the Heaven plot (because Cas is the only dude with Wings)
- Traumatizes Destiel fans or fans of current Cas (ME!)
- Keep 2 regulars
- Shoves too-powerful characters off the board (Luci & son).
- Creates fresh conflict
- Has them "sorted" in time for Scooby Doo!

Edited May 19, 2017 by SueB

[ahrtee]

Without meaning to be snarky, there's a difference between trying to find someone who is missing/presumed dead (such as Dean in Purgatory, Sam in the cage, or Cas with the Leviathans) and bringing someone back who is truly dead.  AFAIK, Dean was the only one who actually did that on his own, and just once, when he sold his soul (and I think he learned his lesson not to do that again.)  Every other time someone "came back" it was through an angel or something stronger's intercession, though usually because one of the Winchesters asked them)--Cas, Gadreel, Michael, Gabriel, even Zachariah and Chuck (and Amara!) brought back Winchester loved ones at various times, but it was always their decision to do it.  That was why Sam not searching for Dean in Purgatory was so OOC--because there was no body, so he was only "presumed," not most sincerely dead, and Sam didn't even look.   

But IMO once they're out of options (or if the only options are too horrible to consider--like selling their souls), then they do grieve and accept.  And in this case, they have *no* options--they have a body (complete with wing burn, so no question), and no friends/friendly adversaries to ask for help--and even if crossroads deals were still available (questionable when hell has to be in turmoil), I doubt if a demon deal could resurrect an angel.  So it's not an insult to Cas if they *don't* try to resurrect him, it's just there have no where to go.  

That doesn't mean the writers can't (or won't) pull something out of their ass to bring Misha back in one form or another.  

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Except Cas has been gone before and he has never done that. He was awol for weeks this season. He could have been in all sorts of trouble but all Dean did was keep leaving him voicemails. He didn't try to get him back after the Leviathans looked to have killed him either. There is no evidence in the show that Dean would go to the same lengths for Cas that he has been shown to go to for Sam. 

 

Dean stayed in Purgatory, a year longer than than necessary, in order to find Cas and bring him back alive.  Pretty sure Dean would have stayed in Purgatory 5 years if needed to find Cas. He told Cas straight up that he's not leaving Purgatory without him when he did find him.  Dean didn't look for a way to get Cas back because he believed that he saw Cas DIE in Purgatory, until Cas showed him that it wasn't what he believed was the case.

This season, Dean checked morgue records and jails to see if Cas had been arrested. He called and left pretty desperate messages. I'm pretty sure Dean was also praying to Cas as part of his "messages" but Cas wasn't answering. The one thing Dean failed  to consider, which is a writing fail for plot, not a character defining point, was Cas going back to Heaven. He figured Cas would never be that stupid for him to go and not tell him.

Given that Dean thought Cas was still on Earth, he did all that he could other than drive to Idaho, which he didn't do because of the distractions of the BMOL and Mary.  But in a season in which the narrative was stressing that Dean needed to let go of people he loved and let them do what they think they need to do, re Sam and Mary, seems to me that Dean not jumping in the Impala to drive to Idaho to find Cas, fits with that stated narrative which has been framed as 'character growth' for Dean and it's being stated that it is not a matter of Dean not loving or caring for Sam and Mary, so Cas should be treated the same in the narrative.

There is no competition for Dean's affection and caring with Cas and Sam. He loves them both, equally but differently and for different reasons. And he will go to the ends of the earth to save them. The problem now is since the narrative has been driving home that it's "character growth" (which I thought was a crap narrative in the first place but here it is) they'll be hard pressed to walk that back so I suspect Dean will need to let go of both Mary and Cas to continue his growth, and he won't look for either one and it will fall to Sam because he'll have to still make up for something.  I hope I'm 100% wrong about it and Dean says this is bullshit, I'm saving Cas and Mary and fuck all y'all.

Edited May 19, 2017 by catrox14

[Binns]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

https://bloodstained-porcelain-doll.tumblr.com/post/160834770815/season-13

I saw this listed on Tumblr.

Not sure how accurate it is but it lists Jensen, Jared, Misha and Mark P as regulars for next season.

They also show the guy playing Jack. 

I wonder if it wasn't Cas that was killled but the bizzaro world Cas came thought the portal and the real Cas is trapped with Mary and Lucifer.

Holy Jack eye candy. 

This is one of my theories too re: Cas. We didn't see this Cas interact with the boys at all. So no way to know for sure. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by Binns

[Binns]

52 minutes ago, SueB said:

So TVine has the butcher's toll as:
35. AIRED May 18: Castiel/Supernatural
36. AIRED May 18: Crowley/Supernatural
37. AIRED May 18: Ketch/Supernatural
38. AIRED May 18: Toni/Supernatural
39. AIRED May 18: Dr. Hess/Supernatural
40. AIRED May 18: Rowena/Supernatural
41. AIRED May 18: Kelly/Supernatural

 

Based on what we've seen, Mark Shepard seems most likely to be truly GONE.  Mark played that scene like an "epic Death scene". Crowley had COMPLETELY become part of Team Free Will, including self-sacrifice entry fee.  Crowley was content going out as "one of the boys" while simultaneously screwing Luci.

But I think the boys (J2), probably required two regulars to keep hours reasonable.  That leaves (IMO) Mary to replace Mark and Misha to come back as Alternate Universe Cas.  Rowena may or maynot show up (from the AU).  This pisses me off because I wanted a heartfelt tribute to REAL Cas.  We may still get that.

Still, we've got a couple of structural resolutions required -- Jack, Mary in AU and his Daddy still alive (and in AU).

So... my "first thoughts" scenario for next year:

- Jack can't bring back Cas, even though the Winchesters ask. So they focus on asking Jack to help get back to AU.  
- Mary and Luci are geared up when "da da dummmmm" AU!Cas shows up to attack Luci. He's uber an bad-ass Cas w/ full Wings.
- The boys will make it back to AU in 13.1 and out by 13.3.  They have to kill or trap Luci,  during this so they enlist the aid of AU!Bobby, Mary, AU!Cas and MAYBE AU!Rowena. Jack goes with them.
- By the end of EP 13.3, the Lucifer threat is contained, AU!Cas and Mary come back to the real universe, and Jack stays with AU!Bobby in the AU.  AU!Bobby will raise Jack and create a paradise in the AU that Cas saw.
- S13 will then have Dean/AU!Cas conflicts as this is NOT Dean's Cas but there's some similarities. Sam will roll with it, while mourning the real Cas.
- Mary will be back as a regular in the real universe.  She will be tied to the boys but not on every hunt and not baking pies.

This:
- Removes the "incompetent Hell" plot
- Revitalizes the Heaven plot (because Cas is the only dude with Wings)
- Traumatizes Destiel fans or fans of current Cas (ME!)
- Keep 2 regulars
- Shoves too-powerful characters off the board (Luci & son).
- Creates fresh conflict
- Has them "sorted" in time for Scooby Doo!

I'd be down with pretty much all of this. I like that AU set (what were those spikes??? Church steeples?). 

[companionenvy]

I think you have a good chance of being right, SueB, but while alt!Cas might be interesting to watch, it doesn't take away the appalling way the narrative has treated real!Cas. This will be Misha playing a different character. That's it. 

[catrox14]

19 minutes ago, Binns said:

Holy Jack eye candy. 

This is one of my theories too re: Cas. We didn't see this Cas interact with the boys at all. So no way to know for sure. 

Wait, that guy playes Anarky on Arrow.  Ruh Roh this makes me fear for the Anarky character on Arrow now. LOL

I swear I'm starting to think that they are really trying to figure out a crossover between Arrow and Supernatural now that they have an Earth2 in Supernatural...it could happen.

2 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

I think you have a good chance of being right, SueB, but while alt!Cas might be interesting to watch, it doesn't take away the appalling way the narrative has treated real!Cas. This will be Misha playing a different character. That's it. 

I'm so angry and hurt over how dirty they've done Cas this season. I'll take it to the bitterness thread

[Jonesy]

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

https://bloodstained-porcelain-doll.tumblr.com/post/160834770815/season-13

I saw this listed on Tumblr.

Not sure how accurate it is but it lists Jensen, Jared, Misha and Mark P as regulars for next season.

They also show the guy playing Jack. 

I wonder if it wasn't Cas that was killled but the bizzaro world Cas came thought the portal and the real Cas is trapped with Mary and Lucifer.

I love your theory that Bizarro World Cas was killed instead of OUR Cas!  Didn't think of that possibility.  Though would Bizarro Cas be dressed the same as Cas? 

 

Intriguing list of cast members with our boy Misha there--so hope it's true!  Need to know where this person got this CAST LIST.  I would think Cas's death wouldn't stick but what do I know...didn't really think they'd do this to Cas in the first place.

 

I tell you one thing if they dump Cas that's a deal breaker for me--i'll pass on further episodes...the 3 members of Team Free Will are off limits for me.   It pisses me off that certain extremist SPN fan starting with the initial "K" in her username and her extremist Cas haters constant campaign to push Cas/Misha out could possibly win--I despise their aggressive pushiness.  Not talking normal people who aren't crazy about Cas--only the extreme hater fringe always campaigning on SPN twitter feeds and elsewhere.  So if they win I'm gone from the show and fandom. 

 

I guess i'll stick around till new season to see if Cas's death sticks or not.  Here's hoping we get our real Cas back or bye-bye SPN.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Jakes

[Wayward Son]

By the looks of the layout that list comes from the wikia. It has had the Ms listed for S13 for seasons now so I wouldn't read too much into it.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Jonesy]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

By the looks of the layout that list comes from the wikia. It has had the Ms listed for S13 for seasons now so I wouldn't read too much into it.

I couldn't find it on there--where would you look?

[Wayward Son]

1 minute ago, Jakes said:

I couldn't find it on there--where would you look?

Here's the direct link http://supernatural.wikia.com/wiki/Season_13?useskin=oasis

But for future reference you use the menu at the top and select Supernatural > The Singer and Dabb era > Season 13. 

I prefer the wikia layout to the supernatural wiki's so I usually use the wikia for referencing show stuff. The season 13 page has been up since the renewal announcement was made a few months ago.

[Jonesy]

2 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Here's the direct link http://supernatural.wikia.com/wiki/Season_13?useskin=oasis

But for future reference you use the menu at the top and select Supernatural > The Singer and Dabb era > Season 13. 

I prefer the wikia layout to the supernatural wiki's so I usually use the wikia for referencing show stuff. The season 13 page has been up since the renewal announcement was made a few months ago.

Thanks--did it always have Pellegrino, Misha but NOT Mark?

Edited May 19, 2017 by Jakes

[Wayward Son]

1 minute ago, Jakes said:

Thanks--did it always have Pelligrino, Misha but NOT Mark?

I'm honestly not 100% but I think they may have taken Mark S out after ep 21. The thing to remember about wiki pages is that they can be altered by anyone.

[Jonesy]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

I'm honestly not 100% but I think they may have taken Mark S out after ep 21. The thing to remember about wiki pages is that they can be altered by anyone.

Yeah I know--but i'll take any little hope right now.

[Geordiegirl1967]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

1 hour ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

Maybe. But he certainly wasn't 

He was.  He mentioned it at the start of The Memory Remains.

You misunderstood me. I wasn't questioning the morgue thing. The 'he certainly wasn't....' referred to the quote I put below i.e. he certainly wasn't tearing up heaven, hell and wherever to find him'.

[Geordiegirl1967]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

Without meaning to be snarky, there's a difference between trying to find someone who is missing/presumed dead (such as Dean in Purgatory, Sam in the cage, or Cas with the Leviathans) and bringing someone back who is truly dead.  AFAIK, Dean was the only one who actually did that on his own, and just once, when he sold his soul (and I think he learned his lesson not to do that again.)

No snark interpreted ;-)

And with an equal absence of snark, can I make an opposing argument? Dean literally killed himself twice to save Sam (in addition to the other times you mentioned). Once when he went to meet Death to persuade him to go get Sam's soul. The second time in Red Meat. Sam was (as far as Dean knew) dead as a dodo. Nothing magical, Just a bullet wound. Yet him took an overdose and offered to take Sam's place with Billy. And Dean was dead and gone with a sword right through his heart in the s9 finale. There was very much a corpse. Sam put it on his bed. Didn't stop Sam deciding he was going to bring him back. He was in the process of doing the spell when he realised Dean was gone. So the presence of a body is no impediment to Dean and Sam when it comes to each other. They don't apply the same rules to anyone else no matter how much they cared about them. 

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

there's a difference between trying to find someone who is missing/presumed dead (such as Dean in Purgatory, Sam in the cage, or Cas with the Leviathans) and bringing someone back who is truly dead

Not really. Every dead person is actually retrievable. They are somewhere else that the boys know it is probably possible to get in and out of; heaven, hell, Purgatory etc. Angels can resurrect people. Did Dean (or Sam) call one when Charlie or Kevin or Bobby died? The only times on the show when we have seen the brothers (more often Dean for Sam, but Sam for Dean too) go to extraordinary lengths has been for each other. And as I said

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

That was why Sam not searching for Dean in Purgatory was so OOC--because there was no body, so he was only "presumed," not most sincerely dead, and Sam didn't even look.  

Don't even get me started on that egregious, ooc nonsense.....;-)

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

There is no competition for Dean's affection and caring with Cas and Sam. He loves them both, equally but differently and for different reasons. And he will go to the ends of the earth to save them

Sorry but I think this is just 100% not the case. And I believe we have very very clearly been shown that on the show. Does Dean care about Cas? Of course. But love him as much as Sam? That is just not credible and not borne out by the canon and the actions we have seen from the characters.

43 minutes ago, Jakes said:

It pisses me off that Kelios and her extremist Cas haters constant campaign to push Cas/Misha out could possibly win--I despise their aggressive pushiness.  Not talking normal people who aren't crazy about Cas--only the extreme hater fringe always campaigning on SPN twitter feeds and elsewhere.  So if they win I'm gone from the show and fandom. 

They are annoying and their behaviour is inexcusable, but a) I highly doubt they have had any influence at all on the decision and b) the writers have to write a story they believe in regardless of what a few extreme vocal fans (of any persuasion; Destiel, Wincest, anti Cas, etc) are clamouring for.

[Wayward Son]

Honestly based on the shows mistreatment of Cas under Dabb and his predecessors I am not expecting much of a reaction to Cas' death next season. I'm fairly certain it's going to be a case of early episode one contains a scene that consists of 

 

"aw it's so sad about Cas isn't it"

"yeah real sad" 

-moment of silence- 

"right so what we gonna do about mum?" 

With several episodes then focused on saving Mary from bizarro world and Castiel never to be spoken of again.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Honestly based on the shows mistreatment of Cas under Dabb and his predecessors I am not expecting much of a reaction to Cas' death next season. I'm fairly certain it's going to be a case of early episode one contains a scene that consists of 

 

"aw it's so sad about Cas isn't it"

"yeah real sad" 

-moment of silence- 

"right so what we gonna do about mum?" 

With several episodes then focused on saving Mary from bizarro world and Castiel never to be spoken of again.

I understand your worries but I think it will be  an emotional and a proper farewell, likely a hunter's funeral unless they go the chickenshit route and do a time jump and not show it. 

I'm curious if they plan to have Jack(really? Jack?? he couldn't be named Jacob or some other suitable name for part archangel ..of course Jack is also the diminutive nickname for John....HMMMMMM just putting it out there), try to resurrect Cas. Seems like a thing they should try.

[Jonesy]

Well all this is going to make JIBCON...an emotional circus.

[Jonesy]

Anyone know anyone going to JIBCON?  If so tweet them to ask Misha--you know what!

[companionenvy]

I'm never right on these things, so take it with a handful of salt, but calling it now:

Altverse Cas will be evil, but will be redeemed by season's end. This could be true whether or not Real Cas is actually dead. 

For extra WTF, alt!Crowley may be a hero (while still being a Magnificent Bastard). 

[Geordiegirl1967]

12 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Anyone know anyone going to JIBCON?  If so tweet them to ask Misha--you know what!

I suspect he'll be sworn to secrecy. But there'll be a lot of emotion. No wonder he wasn't looking forward to it. 

[rue721]

Spec:  I don't think that what was born was a regular nephilism, I think that pregnancy was a mystical escape hatch that Doom!Lucifer created from Doom World in order to escape. Or maybe to send his Doom!child through in order to escape, a la Kal-El being sent off of Krypton. But I'm going to go with the former being more likely than the latter, because I'm pretty sure Lucifer is selfish and self-involved as hell in ALL possible worlds.

There was that line about Lucifer's smug leer, and that's exactly the expression on the "baby's" face that we ended on. Lucifer is the light bringer, and the "baby" was born in an enormous burst of light. And the fissures that were being creating during the labor makes me think that the biggest and most "productive" fissure was the birth itself. Also, the introduction of there being alt-reality versions of all our characters in Doom!Verse immediately begged the question of what was going on with Doom!Lucifer; I think that the writers wanted us to ask ourselves that question, and to wonder if the newly introduced Creepy Man Baby at the end was the answer.

In any case, I do think that this was not a "normal" nephilism birth. We also know that it's not a "known thing" that mothers die in childbirth with nephilism babies or that nephilism babies age up super fast or create enormous fissures in the fabric of time-space, because Lily Saunders was the perfectly alive mother of an ordinary little girl, and the angels believed that her daughter was a nephilism anyway. Plus there was that other lady who Cas murdered who was a nephilism, but I can cut the show some slack since that episode was years ago. The Lily Saunders thing was just this season, so...Anyway, my point is that I think the point of the Lily Saunders episode was to establish canon on nephilism in order to show how Lucifer's baby is not adhering to how nephilism pregnancies/children usually are. IMO the reasons why not could be because 1. Lucifer isn't really an angel anymore, so this baby is not half-angel and half-human, he's something else...2. this isn't Lucifer's child, this is a whole different kettle of fish -- like a vessel/escape hatch that Doom!Lucifer created from afar in order to escape into from Doom!Verse, for example.

In short, I actually do think it's like Connor coming back from Qu'or Toth (sp?!!). Except that Connor was actual-regular-Angel-universe Connor, albeit screwed up, whereas I think this is alt!verse Lucifer (or possibly alt!verse Lucifer Jr).

Also:  The baby storyline bothers me on so many levels that I'm also just hoping out of sheer, senseless optimism that they are going to swerve away from the storyline of a baby born evil because of its parentage or because it's not "pure blood" whatever. Both those concepts are both so disgusting -- and IMO counter to the ethos of the show -- so I've just got to hold out my little flame of hope lol.

Edited May 19, 2017 by rue721