Spoilers With Speculation

[Jonesy]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Misha and Jensen were both pretty vocal about their opposition to Charlie's death at JIBcon IIRC along with backing away from the ComicCon panel table and letting Carver swing in the wind about Charlie.

Maybe he is not particularly keen on having to deal with a similar situation based on whatever is going to happen. 

And Misha has got toasted on defending SPN's "misogyny".  A nonsense charge.

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I was just trying to find a way that a time jump would work to set the time in the show to be proper given the on screen time jumps that did happen.

There's actually a somewhat easy way to account for an aged Spawnifer - it's just not necessarily a good one... And that's hell. We know the timeline is faster there, so keeping the Spawn in the hell dimension could age him nicely. The hard part would be who would be "raising" him there Connor from Angel style.* Now one way it could be done without having to worry about the other character aging - since she doesn't - is Rowena. Now Rowena would be an interesting choice considering she's not the best mother... but it would be an interesting sting for Crowley if she raised Lucifer's spawn "better" than she raised him. It could make for an interesting rivalry between the spawn and Crowley. Her chance to be Queen of Hell with a "better" candidate.

Let's just say that I can imagine some interesting possibilities there.

*(and I agree with @catrox14, that I didn't mind that storyline with Jasmine per se... however I hated the ConCord (Connor/Cordelia) part of it: because ew.)

[Jonesy]

11 minutes ago, Diane said:

Now that could be interesting!

Well my prediction stays Bobby but could the mystery person be Metatron...has his general body shape.

[Diane]

1 minute ago, Jakes said:

Well my prediction stays Bobby but could the mystery person be Metatron...has his general body shape.

I am hoping it is Bobby, I really do miss the character.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Jakes said:

And Misha has got toasted on defending SPN's "misogyny".  A nonsense charge.

What do you mean he got "toasted"? He never defended the misogyny. He was one of the first to call it out. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

[Diane]

Probably not him.

[AwesomO4000]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Man, I will be so pissed off if Metadouche is back.  But I suppose he could be the Mystery Figure based on his physique. I don't think it's Garth because DJ is pretty slender. I was wondering for a minute if it could be Ghuck. But I don't think Rob has a paunch like that. Gabriel is still an option. 

Wait, what about Ash??? I haven't seen Chad Lundberg lately. Is he still slender? That would be kind of awesome if it was Ash and it would parallel DSotM when he saved the boys in Heaven. Hmmmmm

Whereas I would love it - I love to hate Metatron, and Curtis Armstrong plays him wonderfully, in my opinion. I wouldn't mind Chuck either, but I don't think it would fit with where they are and/or what Chuck is doing now. When he left things in Dean's and Sam's hands, I expected he meant that to be for a while.

I would also love Ash, too.

[Jonesy]

Just now, catrox14 said:

What do you mean he got "toasted"? He never defended the misogyny. He was one of the first to call it out. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

No I mean he was getting some of the brunt of some anger directed at the show on their treatment of women...unfairly.  Yes you are right...Misha does call that stuff out.

[catrox14]

from the EW article Jakes posted

 

Quote

When season 12 ends, Dabb hopes they’ve created a finale that’s a bit of both. “There are some things that happen that impact strongly and directly on the boys, while at the same time, we are starting a new chapter in the show, [though] not in a way of erasing what’s come before,” Dabb says. “I think it’s something that will be a natural progression of what we’ve done but also cool and different and hopefully give us a lot of energy going into season 13.”

Hmmm.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Whereas I would love it - I love to hate Metatron, and Curtis Armstrong plays him wonderfully, in my opinion. I wouldn't mind Chuck either, but I don't think it would fit with where they are and/or what Chuck is doing now. When he left things in Dean's and Sam's hands, I expected he meant that to be for a while.

Maybe part of the "cosmic consequences"  is Ghuck being forced to come back and do something about his new grand-nephewlim (?)

[Diane]

17 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Whereas I would love it - I love to hate Metatron, and Curtis Armstrong plays him wonderfully, in my opinion. I wouldn't mind Chuck either, but I don't think it would fit with where they are and/or what Chuck is doing now. When he left things in Dean's and Sam's hands, I expected he meant that to be for a while.

I would also love Ash, too.

This is me, I absolutely love to hate Metatron. Curtis Armstrong is such a great actor and a pleasure to watch.  Ash is a good one too, did Cass ever meet him though?

Edited May 17, 2017 by Diane

[SueB]

My predicts: Mary lives (but fate is unclear), Mystery Man is not revealed.

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I'm going out on a limb and say we could get a female vessel for Cas, although I don't know how that would work since Cas is pretty much his own vessel, unless that "cosmic consequence" is that Cas is no longer his own vessel now. 

They could say the vessel was transformed somehow so it was female rather than male. I would hate this and would much rather see Cas written off completely! Castiel is Misha for me! I know its feasible within the rules of the SN verse, but I don't think I could accept someone as Cas on a long term basis. 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Man, I will be so pissed off if Metadouche is back.  But I suppose he could be the Mystery Figure based on his physique. I don't think it's Garth because DJ is pretty slender. I was wondering for a minute if it could be Ghuck. But I don't think Rob has a paunch like that. Gabriel is still an option. 

Wait, what about Ash??? I haven't seen Chad Lundberg lately. Is he still slender? That would be kind of awesome if it was Ash and it would parallel DSotM when he saved the boys in Heaven. Hmmmmm

Chad was at VegasCon and is still slim. He also has almost zero knowledge of the show beyond his own episodes, lol. It was kind of amusing to watch him try and answer the many show-specific questions.

Chuck was among my first thoughts, but then why would he need a weapon? The same reasoning rules out any of the angels like Gabriel or Michael for me.

49 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

from the EW article Jakes posted

 

Hmmm.

Every time Dabb opens his mouth he convinces me more that he doesn't give a single fuck about the Winchesters or the show's canon - he wants a spin off or a reboot in which the boys are grandfathered into irrelevance.

Edited May 17, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Chuck was among my first thoughts, but then why would he need a weapon? The same reasoning rules out any of the angels like Gabriel or Michael for me.

Ohhhh.maybe the "cosmic consequences" is reversed polarity between humans and angels and humans will have some powers  but the angels don't and they have to use weapons?

[Demented Daisy]

Perhaps it renders everyone powerless?

[catrox14]

18 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

They could say the vessel was transformed somehow so it was female rather than male. I would hate this and would much rather see Cas written off completely! Castiel is Misha for me! I know its feasible within the rules of the SN verse, but I don't think I could accept someone as Cas on a long term basis. 

Oh I will hate with fires of 10000 suns in all universes  but just saying they could do it. I would hate it and I don't want it.

[gonzosgirrl]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Ohhhh.maybe the "cosmic consequences" is reversed polarity between humans and angels and humans will have some powers  but the angels don't and they have to use weapons?

Or maybe The Empty is where angels go when they die. On that basis it could be  Uriel, Zachariah, Balthazaar - any one of which would have a bone to pick with dear Castiel.

[ILoveReading]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Or maybe The Empty is where angels go when they die. On that basis it could be  Uriel, Zachariah, Balthazaar - any one of which would have a bone to pick with dear Castiel.

Or The Empty is like Purgatory for humans. 

I wonder if Dabb read all the speculation about the season being a dream because the article made sure to point out they didn't erase anything that came before.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, ILoveReading said:

Or The Empty is like Purgatory for humans. 

I wonder if Dabb read all the speculation about the season being a dream because the article made sure to point out they didn't erase anything that came before.

I believe that is exactly what we're supposed to see the Empty as: Purgatory for humans, but maybe it's for angels as well and without their grace, they are powerless.

[ahrtee]

Since Ash, in DSOTM, made a point of saying he hadn't found John in heaven (or Mary, for that matter, or even knew that Jo and Ellen were there) maybe they're all in the Empty (and living "real" lives, not the Memorex heaven), together with rebels to be punished, like Bobby.   That would certainly make for interesting possibilities (and one badass team to help break the boys out, assuming they're still alive and can go back, while the others can't--and maybe Mary would choose to stay behind with John.  I can see them preferring real challenges and even fighting as opposed to eternal peace and reliving your greatest hits for eternity.)  

I always wondered about a "middle ground" for humans (like hunters) who weren't really heaven material but weren't bad enough for hell.  (In theory, that should be Purgatory; but I don't think any religion factored in an afterlife for monsters.)  

[Geordiegirl1967]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

What do you mean he got "toasted"? He never defended the misogyny. He was one of the first to call it out. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?

I think the recent controversy was because Misha was the one saying the show was misogynistic, which many people took issue with. He may have been joking. You never know with him. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Every time Dabb opens his mouth he convinces me more that he doesn't give a single fuck about the Winchesters or the show's canon - he wants a spin off or a reboot in which the boys are grandfathered into irrelevance.

I didn't get that impression at all from the referenced quote.  In fact, the "not in a way of erasing what’s come before" sounds like he does give a fuck about the show's cannon and the Winchesters to me.  As does, "something that will be a natural progression of what we’ve done but also cool and different and hopefully give us a lot of energy going into season 13."  That sounds like he's trying not to retread a lot of plots/stories which have come before (something about which I believe I've seen criticism this season alone.)  So it seems to me that the man is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

[mertensia]

17 hours ago, Dobian said:

Sam dies and they bring in Ashton Kutcher as Dean's long-lost cousin for season 13.

Nope; Ted McGinley.

[catrox14]

29 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

I think the recent controversy was because Misha was the one saying the show was misogynistic, which many people took issue with. He may have been joking. You never know with him. 

What recent controversy? A couple of years ago, maybe more, Misha  said there were misogynistic things in the show at times, which I think is true at times. I don't think he ever said the show as a whole was misogynistic. But maybe I've missed something. Anyway, I think I understand where everyone was coming from now.

[auntvi]

Who is Ted McGinley and what does he have to do with SPN??

Edited May 17, 2017 by auntvi
full sentence

[Aeryn13]

He played a famous "replacement" character as well, back on Married with Children. Basically it is the Ashton Kutcher joke, just in a different decade. And now I feel old.    

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

He played a famous "replacement" character as well, back on Married with Children. Basically it is the Ashton Kutcher joke, just in a different decade. And now I feel old.    

I knew who it was, if that makes you feel less old LOL

[gonzosgirrl]

26 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I didn't get that impression at all from the referenced quote.  In fact, the "not in a way of erasing what’s come before" sounds like he does give a fuck about the show's cannon and the Winchesters to me.  As does, "something that will be a natural progression of what we’ve done but also cool and different and hopefully give us a lot of energy going into season 13."  That sounds like he's trying not to retread a lot of plots/stories which have come before (something about which I believe I've seen criticism this season alone.)  So it seems to me that the man is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Naw, for me he's just damned. *g*

I'll be more than happy to come back and eat my words dependent on this finale and where it goes in the first S13 eps. But this season, he - and as showrunner it's his feet I hold to the fire - has done the Winchesters and canon no favours. My opinion, of course.

[ILoveReading]

16 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

He played a famous "replacement" character as well, back on Married with Children. Basically it is the Ashton Kutcher joke, just in a different decade. And now I feel old.    

I understood that reference

[SueB]

I also don't think 'a new chapter' means 'doesn't give a fuck'. 

New chapters (within the show) options:

- Something that pseudo organizes the hunters without involving BMoL

- Some story that puts Mary in hiding (but accessible) so that relationship improves but doesn't involve her in the Bunker (she needs her own mission). 

- Something that gets Cas a major arc FOR Cas that is not full of self-doubt

Ive been predicting the BMoL story was an origin story for Sam and Dean starting to organize the Americans (since before the first episode of S12).  I think that's still possible. 

[catrox14]

Awwww.. I saw this on Tumblr. Some gifs of the actor playing Young Dean in 12.22, from a Hallmark movie.

He's a little cutie patootie. He seems to be able to emote and at least he has a screen presence.  IMO

 

http://thedisgraced.tumblr.com/

[RulerofallIsurvey]

56 minutes ago, SueB said:

Ive been predicting the BMoL story was an origin story for Sam and Dean starting to organize the Americans (since before the first episode of S12).  I think that's still possible. 

Personally, I'd like that.  And think it would open up a lot more 'stories' to tell without having to go so big world-ending mytharc.  

[MysteryGuest]

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

LOTUS was supposedly happening in December 2016 but everything was green in Indiana where that episode took place and Obama was still President when LOTUS aired in December 2016, so time is already wonky if real world references to Obama count.  If President Jeff is post-Obama and they still inaugurate Presidents n January then President Jeff couldn't have been President in December 2016 unless something happened to Obama which they never said was the case.

The problem is they can't have Lucifer possess Obama.  I'm sure when they were making the jokes about Obama throughout the show, they never conceived that they'd actually have Lucifer possess the president.  I can fully understand why, since it was a pretty lame storyline.  Once again, show history be damned.

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

He played a famous "replacement" character as well, back on Married with Children. Basically it is the Ashton Kutcher joke, just in a different decade. And now I feel old.    

Not just one decade, two.  He was also a famous (or shall we say "infamous") replacement character when Ron Howard left Happy Days.  The running joke on McGinley was that he was the replacement character specialist!

[Geordiegirl1967]

45 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

He's a little cutie patootie

Aww. He looks a perfect young Dean. How old is he? Dean was only 4 when Mary died and I am guessing he appears in flashbacks to when she was alive, so he should be about that age. I hope there is also a young Sam though of course it will just be a baby so uncredited.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

The problem is they can't have Lucifer possess Obama.  I'm sure when they were making the jokes about Obama throughout the show, they never conceived that they'd actually have Lucifer possess the president.  I can fully understand why, since it was a pretty lame storyline.  Once again, show history be damned.

All they had to do was make him President-Elect Jeff and literally everything else would stay the same. The boys still get arrested by the Secret Service for trying to assassinate the President-Elect and get put into a Black site. There was nothing story wise at least as of yet for him to have been POTUS. So stupid.

[MysteryGuest]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

Ive been predicting the BMoL story was an origin story for Sam and Dean starting to organize the Americans (since before the first episode of S12).  I think that's still possible. 

This would actually make sense considering what happened this season.  The American hunters were vulnerable because so many of them hunt alone.  It's been acknowledged that the BMOL had good monster intel, even if they did turn out to be psychopathic murdering assholes.  If they manage to expel the BMOL from the US before they can take all of their fancy gizmos with them, the American MOL could incorporate that intel into the volumes of monster data already archived in the Bunker.  It could mean more hunter interaction, and more straight up monster stories.

The only downside I can foresee is that this would also allow Jensen and Jared to take even more time off.  I know it's inevitable that they will leave the show one day, but I'm not ready for that day just yet.

[DeeDee79]

5 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I knew who it was, if that makes you feel less old LOL

Me too :)

[Mick Lady]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:17 PM, Wayward Son said:

If not hunters maybe some sort of human in the know who gives aid to hunters in a different way.

Just catching up, but I'd love for Cas to be the "new" Bobby!

[ILoveReading]

http://shixpe.tumblr.com/post/160768105174/thefiercebeast-iamyourking-thefiercebeast

This proves to me that the mystery guy is Bobby.  If you superimpose the two images, its pretty much a perfect match.

http://ejgibbo.tumblr.com/post/160733355084/ejgibbo-supernatural-promo-12x2223-2-in

Someone also magnified the board behind the British Men of Letters, it says eliminated under Sam's name.

Edited May 18, 2017 by ILoveReading

[catrox14]

15 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

http://shixpe.tumblr.com/post/160768105174/thefiercebeast-iamyourking-thefiercebeast

This proves to me that the mystery guy is Bobby.  If you superimpose the two images, its pretty much a perfect match.

http://ejgibbo.tumblr.com/post/160733355084/ejgibbo-supernatural-promo-12x2223-2-in

Someone also magnified the board behind the British Men of Letters, it says eliminated under Sam's name.

Maybe Ketch put both Sam and Dean as eliminated since he locked them down in the bunker and thinks they will die.

[Demented Daisy]

So, question.  From TVLine's May Sweeps Preview:

Quote

Also on tap: the returns of Jody Mills and her surrogate daughter Alex, and “two surprise appearances, one by a relative newcomer and one by an old favorite.”

Do we think this was Eileen?  Or should we expect someone else?  

[ILoveReading]

I thought the old favorite was going to be Garth

[Demented Daisy]

Hee!  I thought the relative newcomer was going to be Garth.

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

So, question.  From TVLine's May Sweeps Preview:

Quote

Also on tap: the returns of Jody Mills and her surrogate daughter Alex, and “two surprise appearances, one by a relative newcomer and one by an old favorite.”

Do we think this was Eileen?  Or should we expect someone else?  

Oh, I had forgotten about that...does lend more credence to Bobby making an appearance. Garth could be the relative newcomer, if he shows. Hmm? 

[Diane]

[Demented Daisy]

Hmm.  They used to make us sing that in Sunday school.  Are we finally getting Jesus?  ;-)

[DittyDotDot]

We used to sing it at 4-H camp when I was a kid...and when I later worked in daycare. 

So, the common thread is kiddies? ;) 

[SueB]

What Dabb is saying is that it all looks good and we're happy and then SHIT WTF!@#$&)$& happens.