Spoilers With Speculation

[Wayward Son]

@catrox14 you'll appreciate this one! 

 

Maybe the person Castiel says "you" to is the nephilim all grown up. He'll jump out of a portal and stare at Cas before declaring "hi dad" hahahaha 

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

<snip> Can`t actually see a "oh, Dean/Sam may have died" cliffhanger here. In some kind of "peril" sure but not fake-dying yet again.  

 

Unless, The Empty really is a thing and one or both of them get sent there. Billie implied - or maybe outright said it, I can't quite recall - that all the Reapers were pissed with the Winchesters. It's been speculated that it's Dean we see, injured and limping into the bunker in the video. They've recycled more than one story, so if The Empty is to S12 what Purgatory was to S7... maybe it's Dean who's left standing after Sam gets killed/sent there. Could explain Jared's 'surprise' that they went there, and given it's not a natural thing, he probably wouldn't be so averse to Dean trying to retrieve him this time.

[Aeryn13]

I`m still not sure they wouldn`t age Spawn up to look exactly like Mark P. to keep the actor around, just in a new part. If they get rid of Lucy that is. If they age him up to look like someone else, I kinda think they`d go for at least kinda CW aka hot. The little belly on the hooded figure has me pretty convinced it`s Bobby right now.

My other suggestion would be that the Spawn will somehow take control of Cas` body. They might in effect kill Cas but keep Misha that way. That would certainly fit with the ominous vibes Misha and Ruth have given out. Though it wouldn`t cover the "you will all hate me" quote from Mark P.

Quote

It's been speculated that it's Dean we see, injured and limping into the bunker in the video. 

I think it is Dean but I`m not sure it will be in ep 23. Cas apparently heals all the dreamscape injuries so this could be dealt with early on in ep 23.

Also, if that other grey world is the Empty, then all the characters are there. It`s clearly a supernatural realm in any case. Somehow I can`t see them have Sam "die" there and be sent to yet another realm. Even if we don`t see it.

Dabb said every character will be in some sort of perilous position. The vibe I`m getting right now is:  Cas in most danger, possibly "killed", Crowley in some sort of tight spot and the Winchesters together in whatever place. I don`t think it ends with them being separated this time. 

Of course, I could be way off course here. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Goldmoon]

If it shakes up something fundamental to the series, what is the one thing that is sacred?  The two leads being brothers.  Maybe Mary reveals one or both boys are adopted.  It doesn't change how they feel about one another and the many years of history, but it could be a new source for angst.  I wouldn't put anything past TPTB.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Goldmoon said:

If it shakes up something fundamental to the series, what is the one thing that is sacred?  The two leads being brothers.  Maybe Mary reveals one or both boys are adopted.  It doesn't change how they feel about one another and the many years of history, but it could be a new source for angst.  I wouldn't put anything past TPTB.

LOOOL. The Wincest shippers would have a freaking field day.  Although maybe not, because then it's not technically incest and it might not be as much fun for them anymore.

32 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

@catrox14 you'll appreciate this one! 

 

Maybe the person Castiel says "you" to is the nephilim all grown up. He'll jump out of a portal and stare at Cas before declaring "hi dad" hahahaha 

This is exactly right. I would give them bonus points if they named him Conner LOL

Edited May 16, 2017 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

This is exactly right. I would give them bonus points if they named him Conner LOL

Even more bonus points if it was Vincent Kartheiser... and I'd be on board with that by the way. Just sayin'.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

If it shakes up something fundamental to the series, what is the one thing that is sacred?  The two leads being brothers.  Maybe Mary reveals one or both boys are adopted. 

I know they basically spit on their own canon already with all the "Lucifer is the oldest" bullshit but the entire Michael/Lucifer vessel connection hinged on combining the bloodlines of Campbell and Winchester. I doubt that works any other way than literally. 

If they did this, they would catch so much shit. Deservedly.

Quote

This is exactly right. I would give them bonus points if they named him Conner LOL

Hahaha, yes. He jumps out of a portal and immediately kills a bad guy. I`d be down with Vincent Kartheiser as well.

It`s funny you bring that up because the Spawn gives me Jasmine-vibes. So I guess I`m jumping another generation.  

Edited May 16, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Wayward Son]

56 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

LOOOL. The Wincest shippers would have a freaking field day.  Although maybe not, because then it's not technically incest and it might not be as much fun for them anymore.

This is exactly right. I would give them bonus points if they named him Conner LOL

 

40 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Even more bonus points if it was Vincent Kartheiser... and I'd be on board with that by the way. Just sayin'.

 

38 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I know they basically spit on their own canon already with all the "Lucifer is the oldest" bullshit but the entire Michael/Lucifer vessel connection hinged on combining the bloodlines of Campbell and Winchester. I doubt that works any other way than literally. 

If they did this, they would catch so much shit. Deservedly.

Hahaha, yes. He jumps out of a portal and immediately kills a bad guy. I`d be down with Vincent Kartheiser as well.

It`s funny you bring that up because the Spawn gives me Jasmine-vibes. So I guess I`m jumping another generation.  

And then of course our guests Lucifer "what are you doing calling him dad? I'm your dad not him" hah

[Jonesy]

What if Dean dreamed the last 7 seasons?

[catrox14]

57 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Even more bonus points if it was Vincent Kartheiser... and I'd be on board with that by the way. Just sayin'.

HOLY SHIT. Can you imagine? What a casting coup that would be. He's so great.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

What if Dean dreamed the last 7 seasons?

Then we`d be back to 5.22 and I still hate this episode more than anything, even season 12 so please no. But again, I doubt we`re getting a re-do. There would have been anvils for it along the way. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Jonesy]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Then we`d be back to 5.22 and I still hate this episode more than anything, even season 12 so please no. But again, I doubt we`re getting a re-do. There would have been anvils for it along the way. 

Well we disagree on that episode big time--that said I was mainly joking and throwing out a wild scenario.

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, Goldmoon said:

If it shakes up something fundamental to the series, what is the one thing that is sacred?  The two leads being brothers.  Maybe Mary reveals one or both boys are adopted.  It doesn't change how they feel about one another and the many years of history, but it could be a new source for angst.  I wouldn't put anything past TPTB.

"Family don't end with blood!"

[gonzosgirrl]

Heh, I've been saying Dean was adopted all season. He sure didn't get his commitment to family (blood & otherwise) from John or Mary.

[rue721]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

"Family don't end with blood!"

It's funny, when Bobby said that, I took him to mean that family doesn't end in LITERAL bloodshed (not talking about bloodlines) -- like, it shouldn't end in violence/death. Because wasn't that when Bobby was angry with Dean for selling his soul (in the name of family)? I thought it was like, you don't KILL yourself in the name of family, eejit. ;)

Not disagreeing with the interpretation that it means family is about more than shared blood (I actually agree in retrospect), it's just interesting IMO because that's not the interpretation I got from the line initially.

Here's the scene from 3x16

Edited May 16, 2017 by rue721

[MysteryGuest]

I definitely don't want this season to be any sort of dreamscape, or hallucination.  I've been disappointed with aspects of the season, but I think it's salvageable, depending on the final two episodes.  If they kill Mary, then they basically wasted my time with her character, so I truly hope they don't do that.  We need the other half of her story with Sam and Dean to play out.  I also want Dean to play a meaningful role, along with Sam, in whatever lies in store for them in the finale.  

I'm also hoping that the Nephilim doesn't "age up", and I absolutely do not want him portrayed by Mark Pellegrino.  When Lucifer dies (I'm pretty much preparing myself for him to be the last man standing when the series ends!), that character needs to be put to bed.  Whether the spawn is good or evil, it needs to be portrayed by someone new, IMO.  And he needs to age normally, which I believe is what they do.

I'm ok with someone or all of them being sent to some other dimension, or The Empty, or wherever.  I liked the Purgatory storyline, and we really didn't get very much of that.  I'm excited about the possibility of Bobby coming back.  I'd love if he came back as a recurring character next season, but I'll settle for whatever we get.  

As we've said before, there are so many different ways the story can go due to the type of show it is.  There really are no barriers other than the writer's imaginations.  I'm not sure why they let themselves get stuck in the same old rut all of the time.  They need to forget about where they've been, and figure out where they want to go instead.

[DittyDotDot]

25 minutes ago, rue721 said:

 Because wasn't that when Bobby was angry with Dean for selling his soul (in the name of family)?

It was actually in the episode where Dean dies and goes to Hell--end of S3. They're trying to ditch Bobby saying it wasn't his fight--presumably because he's not family [blood]. The other scene where Bobby was unhappy with Dean for selling his soul was at the end of S2 right after he sold his soul.

[Dobian]

4 hours ago, catrox14 said:

This is exactly right. I would give them bonus points if they named him Conner LOL

omg I don't need flashbacks to the plotline that wrecked Angel.

[catrox14]

Just now, Dobian said:

omg I don't need flashbacks to the plotline that wrecked Angel.

I'm the odd bird that actually liked the Jasmine arc. I didn't think it wrecked Angel myself.

[ILoveReading]

The problem with bringing Bobby back is that the writers are going to have the same problem with they with Dean, Cas, Crowley and Mary this season.  What do they do with him.

Sam and Dean don't need him to bring them cases.   They live in a room a requirement, and have books and lore on just about anything, so they don't need him to do research.  I can't say I'd look forward to him lecturing Dean about how much he screwed up and its a good things Bobby is there to set him straight.

Part of the reason, I dislike s7 is that I felt they focused too much on Bobby and Sam and Dean came across as junior hunters in training.

I don't really see  need for the character at this point in the series.  It just feels like his story is done.  I personally would find it lame if he came out of no where to save everyone.  Shouldn't Sam and Dean be doing that?

[gonzosgirrl]

5 hours ago, rue721 said:

The visions that Lucifer gives people are almost never evil, though. If anything, IMO he tends to go too soft with his visions. Like the vision of John that he sent to Sam when he wanted Sam to come back in the Cage.

Whoever sent the vision would have been trying to show Cas whatever they thought Cas WANTED to see IMO -- so I don't think Lucifer can be ruled out based on the vision being "good."

My very first thought when Cas had the vision was that it was Lucifer's doing, much the same as Sam's burning bush. He is the ultimate manipulator (ridiculous Crowley/Luci scripting aside). I will not be surprised at all if he was the puppet master over Kelly & Cas.

[catrox14]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

My very first thought when Cas had the vision was that it was Lucifer's doing, much the same as Sam's burning bush. He is the ultimate manipulator (ridiculous Crowley/Luci scripting aside). I will not be surprised at all if he was the puppet master over Kelly & Cas.

That seems so obvious to me though. Wouldn't it be something if it was really Crowley sending messages to Sproutifer since there was that whole thing where Crowleu was controlling Lucifer, and Crowley says he's 10 steps ahead and I think Crowley is much smarter than he ever lets on.

Oh wait, what if the Mystery Figure is actually Crowley and he's been trying to help Cas get Sproutifer away from Lucifer. That would be flipping the script on s6.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

That seems so obvious to me though. Wouldn't it be something if it was really Crowley sending messages to Sproutifer since there was that whole thing where Crowleu was controlling Lucifer, and Crowley says he's 10 steps ahead and I think Crowley is much smarter than he ever lets on.

Oh wait, what if the Mystery Figure is actually Crowley and he's been trying to help Cas get Sproutifer away from Lucifer. That would be flipping the script on s6.

It would be a good twist if it's Crowley, but these writers have been so paint-by-numbers this season, my expectations are nil.

[rue721]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Wouldn't it be something if it was really Crowley sending messages to Sproutifer since there was that whole thing where Crowleu was controlling Lucifer, and Crowley says he's 10 steps ahead and I think Crowley is much smarter than he ever lets on.

That would be hilarious, and I would be on board.

That said, I think Crowley is still trying to track down Kelly & Co, and he's using Lucifer to do it. I don't think he's inside their heads (yet?). While I think that someone-who-is-not-a-fetus is producing those visions/etc, I think it's more likely Lucifer, the remaining Yellow Eyed Demon, or some other freak (maybe even Rowena) rather than Crowley. But who knows. IMO Crowley is a possibility, just not the only or maybe even most likely possibility.

In terms of why he would want to risk releasing Lucifer in order to track down the baby:  I mean, this is kind of terrible, but I think Crowley wants to kill the baby right in front of Lucifer, as the biggest Fuck You to Lucifer possible. So I think he does want to have Lucifer and the baby in the same place at the same time. And the easiest way to get Lucifer anywhere is by his own steam.

In any case, I don't really have any doubt that Crowley was the one who switched the polarity and is running some kind of scam. He always likes being underestimated. He always plays that particular card.

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh wait, what if the Mystery Figure is actually Crowley and he's been trying to help Cas get Sproutifer away from Lucifer. That would be flipping the script on s6.

I think it's possible it's Crowley. Although Crowley doesn't usually dress like that and isn't big on guns.

My money is on Bobby or John, because it looks like an old man gunslinger to me. And because I think that IS the Empty, and I would buy either one of them being in the Empty (Bobby because he got kicked out of Heaven, and John because it's been such a mystery where he's been that I can buy him turning up in someplace random like that, too). But dunno, there are so many possibilities.

[Dobian]

Mary has to die.  I think that's been her arc all season.  The three bmol characters, dead.  Lucifer back in the cage.  Crowley lives.  Big reveal is the baby, who if it becomes another Diana from Grimm, I'm done with this show.

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I think it's possible it's Crowley. Although Crowley doesn't usually dress like that and isn't big on guns.

If this is The Future, maybe Crowley has changed his ways. Or it's Post-Lucifer/Sproutifer post apocalypse 2.0 and Crowley had to adapt. Or this is the Empty and Crowley is trying to keep the kid in the Empty.

[MysteryGuest]

After reading this tweet of Jim Beaver's, I really think he's going to be the mystery man.

@andrewdabb Sorry I didn't get to do the show this season, but, really, think about something for early next season, ok?#NoYearBreakOnIMDb

I think the fact that he says "early" next season is the giveaway.  He probably has just a few seconds worth of a scene in the finale, but will be back for the opener next season.  Maybe that's the part of season 13 they already shot.  I know...it's all speculation, but that tweet seems pretty obvious to me.  

Edited May 17, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

After reading this tweet of Jim Beaver's, I really think he's going to be the mystery man.

@andrewdabb Sorry I didn't get to do the show this season, but, really, think about something for early next season, ok?#NoYearBreakOnIMDb

I think the fact that he says "early" next season is the giveaway.  He probably has just a few seconds worth of a scene in the finale, but will be back for the opener next season.  Maybe that's the part of season 13 they already shot.  I know...it's all speculation, but that tweet seems pretty obvious to me.  

This seems pretty likely

[companionenvy]

31 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Mary has to die.  I think that's been her arc all season

Not sure about that, since Mary was already flirting with the idea of wanting to go back to heaven earlier in the season, so it seems to me her "arc" should be learning to live in the world again, with her adult sons. Sort of like Season 6 of Buffy, where she had to deal with being pulled from Heeeaven. She might die eventually, but at this point, it would be a major waste, IMO. If she'd been back on team Sam and Dean a few episodes ago, maybe, but I think these final two episodes are going to be too busy to give sufficient time for a reconciliation and meaningful interaction between all three Winchesters, so given that, I hope she survives at least long enough to let her establish a somewhat more functional relationship with her sons.

Back to Bobby: That tweet from Jim Beaver does sound like a hint. If it is Bobby, though, my guess is he hasn't come back to life, a la Mary -- somehow, he's in a different realm altogether, as that doesn't seem to be heaven. 

[MysteryGuest]

2 minutes ago, companionenvy said:

Back to Bobby: That tweet from Jim Beaver does sound like a hint. If it is Bobby, though, my guess is he hasn't come back to life, a la Mary -- somehow, he's in a different realm altogether, as that doesn't seem to be heaven. 

I'm guessing his punishment for breaking out of his personal Heaven was to be sent somewhere else.  Whether it's The Empty is yet to be determined.  I'm actually kind of eager to see where they go with this.  Maybe the writers have saved all of their best stuff for the finale.  One can hope, anyway.

[SueB]

Maybe Beaver isn't credited as the Mystery Man.  I mean, if they are trying to keep it a secret, his name would at least NOT be in the opening credits. 

[MysteryGuest]

That would make sense.  I'm surprised they actually released that picture, though.  I know I could end up being completely wrong, but the physique of that person looks exactly like Bobby.  Of course, maybe that's the fake out.  We'll find out soon enough.

[Jonesy]

One reason I think Cas is ultimately safe--Jim Micheals tweet joking with William Shatner about Cas/Misha possibly in danger of dying.  Jim knows how sensitive and explosive this topic is in fandom...he wouldn't joke and throw fire in the flame if they were actually killing Cas off. 

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Jakes said:

One reason I think Cas is ultimately safe--Jim Micheals tweet joking with William Shatner about Cas/Misha possibly in danger of dying.  Jim knows how sensitive and explosive this topic is in fandom...he wouldn't joke and throw fire in the flame if they were actually killing Cas off. 

Or he's bracing fandom via humor.  50/50 IMO

[MysteryGuest]

If Dabb and others are saying how much we're going to love the finale, I don't see how they can kill Cas off.  People were pissed for a long time after Charlie was killed.  Killing Cas for real during the finale isn't going to make me say "gee, what a great episode!"  Most viewers won't get past the fact that they killed Cas to even care about whatever meta crap they're selling.  If they want us to embrace their plans for next season, I don't see that happening with a dead Castiel.  If he's sent off somewhere to raise Lucifer's spawn, or somewhere else that isn't permanent, that would work, but killing him isn't going to go well, I don't think.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

If Dabb and others are saying how much we're going to love the finale, I don't see how they can kill Cas off.  People were pissed for a long time after Charlie was killed.  Killing Cas for real during the finale isn't going to make me say "gee, what a great episode!"  Most viewers won't get past the fact that they killed Cas to even care about whatever meta crap they're selling.  If they want us to embrace their plans for next season, I don't see that happening with a dead Castiel.  If he's sent off somewhere to raise Lucifer's spawn, or somewhere else that isn't permanent, that would work, but killing him isn't going to go well, I don't think.

They also turned Dean into a demon and said we would love the episode as well and be prepared for a lot of crying. And Misha said to be prepared for a lot of crying and he didn't want to go to Rome because of the potential fallout from the finale.

I guess at this point, I'll go with

Edited May 17, 2017 by catrox14

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

After reading this tweet of Jim Beaver's, I really think he's going to be the mystery man.

@andrewdabb Sorry I didn't get to do the show this season, but, really, think about something for early next season, ok?#NoYearBreakOnIMDb

I think the fact that he says "early" next season is the giveaway.  He probably has just a few seconds worth of a scene in the finale, but will be back for the opener next season.  Maybe that's the part of season 13 they already shot.  I know...it's all speculation, but that tweet seems pretty obvious to me.  

I don't think he'd outright say he wasn't in this season if he was. I thought the 'early next season' was a plea so that he would still be credited in 2017, thus 'no year break on IMDb'.  I guess it could still be "Bobby"  if we never see the person unmasked, and Cas' 'You?!' is the final shot of the finale.

ETA: I'm going on record saying, I don't think it's Bobby.

Edited May 17, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[rue721]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

After reading this tweet of Jim Beaver's, I really think he's going to be the mystery man.

@andrewdabb Sorry I didn't get to do the show this season, but, really, think about something for early next season, ok?#NoYearBreakOnIMDb

I think the fact that he says "early" next season is the giveaway.  He probably has just a few seconds worth of a scene in the finale, but will be back for the opener next season.  Maybe that's the part of season 13 they already shot.  I know...it's all speculation, but that tweet seems pretty obvious to me.  

On the one hand, I think it's likely you're right that Bobby has got a few seconds in the finale and then more in the season opener.

On the other hand, I think that the #NoYearBreakOnIMDb joke is why he's saying "early next season." A corny joke but a joke nevertheless.

[gonzosgirrl]

Maybe they're going uber-meta and the Mystery Man is... Negan.

I'll show myself out...

[Jonesy]

29 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Or he's bracing fandom via humor.  50/50 IMO

Maybe though I think he's smart enough to not touch that third rail if something serious was going to happen.

[ILoveReading]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

They also turned Dean into a demon and said we would love the episode as well and be prepared for a lot of crying. And Misha said to be prepared for a lot of crying and he didn't want to go to Rome because of the potential fallout from the finale.

I guess at this point, I'll go with

I think the difference is that even though Dean is a demon, the audience knew it wouldn't be permanent, that Dean would eventually be cured.  (Even if it was too soon for my liking).  If hey kill Cas, I don't see it being permanent, but if it was, I don't see them using the term "love,"

[MysteryGuest]

10 minutes ago, rue721 said:

On the one hand, I think it's likely you're right that Bobby has got a few seconds in the finale and then more in the season opener.

On the other hand, I think that the #NoYearBreakOnIMDb joke is why he's saying "early next season." A corny joke but a joke nevertheless.

It certainly could be just wishful thinking on my part.  I did enjoy Bobby, so I'd like to see him again.  But I suppose it could also be Crowley, though how he would have ended up in some other dimension when he was just in a rat makes no sense.  Plus, I think that's his hand we see coming up out of the ground.  The mystery man could be just that...a mystery.  Maybe it's someone we haven't met yet.  Just because Cas appears to be familiar with the person doesn't mean that we will necessarily know who it is.  This show is great at retconning things to get where they want to go, so it could be Cas' long lost twin for all we know.  I'm not sure angels can actually have twins, but you know what I mean.

Edited May 17, 2017 by MysteryGuest

[Diane]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

They also turned Dean into a demon and said we would love the episode as well and be prepared for a lot of crying. And Misha said to be prepared for a lot of crying and he didn't want to go to Rome because of the potential fallout from the finale.

I guess at this point, I'll go with

And they were right, I did love that episode. The acting was phenomenal, the story was interesting, it also was shocking. Everything I want in a season finale. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Diane said:

And they were right, I did love that episode. The acting was phenomenal, the story was interesting, it also was shocking. Everything I want in a season finale. 

A lot of fans loathed the show for killing Dean and turning him into a demon.  What showrunners/actors/production think is great = drama, angst, emotionally destructive television. My point is that just because a showrunner says an episode is great, doesn't mean it won't break the audience's heart and that might very well play out with Cas dying.

[nightwing877]

2 hours ago, companionenvy said:

Not sure about that, since Mary was already flirting with the idea of wanting to go back to heaven earlier in the season, so it seems to me her "arc" should be learning to live in the world again, with her adult sons. Sort of like Season 6 of Buffy, where she had to deal with being pulled from Heeeaven. She might die eventually, but at this point, it would be a major waste, IMO. If she'd been back on team Sam and Dean a few episodes ago, maybe, but I think these final two episodes are going to be too busy to give sufficient time for a reconciliation and meaningful interaction between all three Winchesters, so given that, I hope she survives at least long enough to let her establish a somewhat more functional relationship with her sons.

Back to Bobby: That tweet from Jim Beaver does sound like a hint. If it is Bobby, though, my guess is he hasn't come back to life, a la Mary -- somehow, he's in a different realm altogether, as that doesn't seem to be heaven. 

I hope she survives too, I would be cool if she died at the end of season 13. At least it wouldn't feel like a waste since we would get a 2-season arc with her and 13 used to build more on her relationship with her sons. 

I could see Booby back, and well maybe his material is very small like a cameo at the very end. If it were John, well I would imagine Mary would be involved in his return.

[Diane]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

A lot of fans loathed the show for killing Dean and turning him into a demon.  What showrunners/actors/production think is great = drama, angst, emotionally destructive television. My point is that just because a showrunner says an episode is great, doesn't mean it won't break the audience's heart and that might very well play out with Cas dying.

That's a blanket statement, I would also think a lot of fan thought it was a good story and interesting for the character. 

[Res]

8 minutes ago, Diane said:

That's a blanket statement, I would also think a lot of fan thought it was a good story and interesting for the character. 

I know I did. I'm still ticked that they cut it short for that 200th "episode". I'll take to the bitterness thread what I thought of that.

[SueB]

I think it's going to be left as a Mystery ... regarding who is the Mystery Man.

Also, Jim doesn't have the paunch he used to.  At least not when he was on Timeless.  So, it COULD be Bobby and they got a body-double. OR it's someone else.

But my #1 guess is ... we won't find out. That'll be one of the cliff-hangers.

Since this appears to be "everyone is in jeopardy" cliffhanger, here's my thoughts:

- Rowena - 'theoretically' killed off screen - but she isn't really IMO
- Mary - 'whisked away by Lucifer', maybe to help w/ the baby ... thus she's the Devil's hostage
- Lucifer  - has the baby & takes Mary hostage
- Crowley - alive and on the run. again.
- Cas - left in Other World w/ Mystery Man
- Sam and Dean - injured/unconscious in OtherWorld (alternatively, sent somewhere by Lucifer)

See, the ONE issue is why doesn't Luci just kill Sam, Dean & Cas.  Mary is probably beneath his radar, but Team Free Will has been screwing with him for a LOOOONG time.  Back when it was Rocker!Luci, he just wanted them to suffer while he broke God's toys.  Mmmkay, Luci's mentally unstable and he was a little on the weak-sauce side, might have wanted to conserve his strength (because breaking out of the Enochian cuffs probably DID take something out of him).  But now he seems pretty powerful.  He's got a custom Luci-suit with wings.  He has a mission -- his son.  For what POSSIBLE reason would he leave Sam, Dean & Cas on the gameboard?  He expediently "killed" Crowley, after all.  So... my only guess is that he thinks OtherWorld is worse than dying (i.e. it IS the Empty).  

Recalling the end of Swan Song, when Bobby shot Lucifer with a regular gun because that's all he had, Lucifer just broke his neck.  Seeing Dean go into gun-rage-shooting mode in the preview, suggests maybe Luci injured Sam and Dean unloaded the only weapon he had at him.  Then Luci would injure Dean.  Now... they aren't dead, we KNOW they aren't going to die... but it may look that way.  Hence, the cliffhanger.  But maybe Luci didn't make it a killing blow (to extend their pain) OR something else protects them.  IDK.  I just expect them either whisked away or out for the count at the end of the episode.  

[rue721]

Any of the characters who are in the Empty are going to have to die to get there, right? So I think we're going to see a lot of deaths.

Anyway...personally, if I were Lucifer, I wouldn't bother killing Sam and Dean, because they'll just land in Heaven or Hell and basically respawn. They've died a whole lot of times already. It's apparently very difficult to get rid of a human being, since dead humans just go to some kind of afterlife, they don't actually disappear. So, if I were Lucifer, I would turn any human enemies (like Sam and Dean) into demons and the burn them out with the demon knife, because that would be a final death. But the show's not going to go in that direction lol.

[Dobian]

Sam dies and they bring in Ashton Kutcher as Dean's long-lost cousin for season 13.