Race And Social Issues: The American Dream

[galax-arena]

I am shocked that the community was not concerned by it.

Oh, a lot of Asian-Americans were/are concerned. I've used "fobby" as a term of endearment before, but I'm not a huge fan of the name even if Eddie campaigned for it. 

[Zalyn]

Interesting... I guess the term was used differently in different places.   So where did the Korean newcomers come from if they already spoke English well?

My mom came to America in the early 70s and she spoke fluent English because they taught it in school and she read a lot of English books.  I've also heard that there was a very large missionary presence in Korea after the Japanese occupation because that was one of the ways Koreans could be literate in non-Japanese, so I'd imagine they picked up some English that way too.

 

The way my parents used the phrase, it implied a cultural illiteracy moreso than a language one.  For example, my mom got teased by her friends when she didn't know that "grass/weed" meant marijuana.  Later on, my parents were told by a car salesman that he wouldn't tell them the price of a car they were interested in unless they promised to buy it first; the way they tell the story to me, they say, "He treated us like we were some fresh off the boat ignorant people even though we spoke perfect English."

 

I see that sort of "fobbiness" with the mom in the show especially because she sees everything through a Chinese cultural lens - good grades means the school is too easy, "free" samples means all of it is free, costs must be cut everywhere (and people dipping hands into croutons is gross).  That contributes to awkardness more than any specific language barrier.

[pookat]

I remember the first time I heard the term FOB, in my teens at a youth camp. I was horrified that the other attendees (mostly first or second generation South Asian or Arab American kids raised in the US as well as African-Americans whose families had been here for generations) used the term to describe their parents. It wasn't a socioeconomic issue either, since these kids represented a variety of SE classes, but tended to be from large cities or the suburbs. It was used in a mostly dismissive way in the sense of parents just don't understand what it's like to grow up here.

It was the first time I realized that there was a whole subculture of immigrants labeling other immigrants with this term. I have no idea if FOB was used by Caucasian Americans to put down new (or even long established) immigrants because even though I was sometimes the odd one out growing up, no one in my family had ever been on the receiving end of that term.

I wanted to echo Zalyn (I think in the Pilot thread) for really enjoying the discussion here. I'm learning a bit more how some of the Canadian experience (at least PRGal's) differs subtly from the US experience. For me, even though my family roots are from a completely different part of Asia (India), I have really identified with the lunch moment as have all my friends who grew up with immigrant parents here. I feel like that is the moment that bonded us all.

[arc]

I gotta say, even though I was a second gen kid (my parents were immigrants) and so were the majority of my classmates at school, all of who brought lunches -- we didn't have a cafeteria with a kitchen in elementary -- I think we all ate pretty western lunches.  Just another way I missed out on the common Asian-American experience!

[scartact]

Titling the show "Fresh Off the Boat" and Huang's fight to maintain the original title is a way of reclaiming the phrase on his own terms as part of an immigrant family. He discussed it a bit in various sources, especially after the show got picked up. I did a quick google search and yielded this result: http://shanghaiist.com/2014/06/09/eddie_huang_defends_title_for_new_a.php

 

Huang does that a lot with language and in his book, at one point calling himself a rotten banana - a play on the idea that if you're a banana, you're white on the inside, but yellow on the outside. He inverses that by suggesting he's instead brown on the inside because of his investment in hip-hop culture as a way for him to cope with growing up as an outsider in Orlando. I know there are some folks who have questioned Eddie's "appropriation" of hip-hop within the show, to some degree myself included, but Huang's experiences in finding comfort in hip-hop are honest reflections of finding that connection to something that spoke directly to his feelings of being othered or an outsider.

 

Initially I did feel uncomfortable with the idea of the show being called Fresh Off the Boat when I first heard about it, and I know there's no way that everyone who has issues with Huang's insistence to call it such would read into why he would do such a thing. But after being able to hear his side of things (as well as reading more about him and even seeing his food show on Vice), I think I've grown more into the idea of why Huang wanted that title. It's certainly a definite way to announce himself.

 

Out of curiosity, has anyone had the chance to read Huang's book yet? I'm slowly, but surely getting through it and I've enjoyed it so far, and I think it would be interesting to consider in relation to the show (though perhaps discussion on it would be best suited for another thread?).

[Zalyn]

Huang does that a lot with language and in his book, at one point calling himself a rotten banana - a play on the idea that if you're a banana, you're white on the inside, but yellow on the outside. He inverses that by suggesting he's instead brown on the inside because of his investment in hip-hop culture as a way for him to cope with growing up as an outsider in Orlando. I know there are some folks who have questioned Eddie's "appropriation" of hip-hop within the show, to some degree myself included, but Huang's experiences in finding comfort in hip-hop are honest reflections of finding that connection to something that spoke directly to his feelings of being othered or an outsider.

 

...

Out of curiosity, has anyone had the chance to read Huang's book yet? I'm slowly, but surely getting through it and I've enjoyed it so far, and I think it would be interesting to consider in relation to the show (though perhaps discussion on it would be best suited for another thread?).

I'd prefer "chocolate banana" since it sounds a little less bad, but I appreciate Huang's openness about these things; I think that more voices about these sorts of stories will be even better.

 

I keep eyeing his book online and want to buy it; having a discussion thread here would be a great incentive to buy it sooner rather than later. 

[ridethemaverick]

South Asian security guards don't do much either. Black people jealous of Asians' relative success (stereotypically speaking)? They tend to be more aggressive, too. I don't see too many white security guards around here.

ETA: I just want to be honest about my experiences. The comments I made were not meant to sound racist. Just FYI.

I honestly don't know how to respond to this so I'll just move on.

I really hope to see more of the black kid (I'm so confused - what exactly is his name? I've heard both Edgar and Walter thrown into the mix!) in order to explore his and Eddie's dynamic. I think it would help better address any potential readings of anti-black racism that may have been gleaned from the Pilot. It also makes me think about how many noticed and commented on the usage of "chink," but we're also not addressing the other moment where the white kid makes fun of Eddie's lunch as an overtly racist moment. The show definitely builds up a lot of these various micro-agressions though, that's for sure. I'm curious to see if the show addresses anti-black racism within the Asian-American community though, which in my experience it definitely does happen especially with the older generations of an immigrant family.

I don't expect the show to address anti-black racism but it would definitely add an interesting dynamic. I have experienced it many times and would love to see how they'd handle it.

[galax-arena]

I really hope to see more of the black kid (I'm so confused - what exactly is his name? I've heard both Edgar and Walter thrown into the mix!)

I couldn't remember the kid's name off the top of my head when I made the initial post, so I googled it and saw Edgar as the first result. But it turns out that that was just the name used in Eddie's book; the show changed it to Walter. Sorry for the confusion!

[mojito]

 

I find it interesting that in the US, both South Asians and East Asians are categorized in the same group.

Most Americans think Asians are the people with a certain eye fold and would be stunned to know who else is Asian.  An acquaintance stopped a conversation with me recently to Google Israel when I pointed out that Israelis are Asian, too. Most Americans don't even seem to realize that Africa is not a country.

 

As for the title of the show.....to me it's a misnomer as I don't see this family as anything other than American, with Chinese heritage. As I type this, I'm not even sure if the parents have accents at all (I'm thinking not), so that shows you how foreign I don't see them as, they seem plenty assimilated to me. Well, Grandma, I'd say, would be a different story. For me, "fresh off the boat" would mean newly arrived and/or barely assimilated and/or thickly accented. I don't think of it as a negative expression as I've not heard it used that way, though, now that I think of it, it's easy to believe that it often is.

 

As I watched this episode it occurred to me how much this show is like Everybody Hates Chris. Being  bullied by a stocky boy (or boys), the parent overly preoccupied with money and the price of things, the younger brother who has a way with the ladies, the setting in a different decade.

[joanne3482]

I have no idea if FOB was used by Caucasian Americans to put down new (or even long established) immigrants because even though I was sometimes the odd one out growing up, no one in my family had ever been on the receiving end of that term.

 

White, over 40, grew up in a small town. I had never heard FOB until about 7 or 8 years ago when my part Korean coworker called this Japanese woman a FOB in a fit of anger (she was telling me the story later on, she didn't say it directly to the Japanese woman). The Japanese woman had asked her where she was from.  My coworker was angry because she felt the Japanese woman was being racist in asking. The exchange was full of undertones I never would have understood, but my coworker felt like the Japanese woman was trying to decide where in the Asian pecking order my coworker fell. My coworker was 1/2 Korean and 1/2 Chamorro and grew up in Hawai'i. 

 

My best friend when I was growing up was Japanese (and I guess technically FOB because she was born in Japan and moved to the states at 5. Her mom definitely had shades of Jessica including running her own restaurant and the school thing.). I never heard any kid say anything like that to her and if it happened when we were apart she never mentioned it. 

[PRgal]

Apologies for the shameless self promo:  I just wrote another blog post on being a child of immigrants.  Thoughts on this?  Or am I, as I noted, just an "over-privileged brat?"

[memememe76]

IME, FOB was usually used by other Asian people. I didn't hear anyone outside of that culture use that expression. If someone not Asian wanted to insult me, they'd normally use "Ching Chong" language. 

[Raja]

Most Americans think Asians are the people with a certain eye fold and would be stunned to know who else is Asian.  An acquaintance stopped a conversation with me recently to Google Israel when I pointed out that Israelis are Asian, too. Most Americans don't even seem to realize that Africa is not a country.

 

 

 

 

On the other hand when the internet started and we could post with people around the world lo and behold British people were still using Oriental. On many threads in those early days of the net Americans would give what I learned in 1979 after using Oriental as a racial description . "oriental refers to objects and Asians are the people. To which the Brits would call us daft because how do you separate Asians, meaning folks from the Indian subcontinent and their immediate neighbors from those from the Orient

IME, FOB was usually used by other Asian people. I didn't hear anyone outside of that culture use that expression. If someone not Asian wanted to insult me, they'd normally use "Ching Chong" language. 

Sounds like my junior high school experience even though the Japanese were twice the number of the combined Chinese and Filipinos. It was only in senior high with a larger area serviced that we started to draw some Korean Americans from further north that I started to here the Nisei throw the "FOB" at Koreans

Edited February 27, 2015 by Raja

[mojito]

I hear Oriental a lot. Describes the same people who are labeled "Asian" (at the exclusion of all the other Asians), even though "orient" simply refers to East. What's just east to me may be far east to you....

 

If anyone cares, just for the heck of it, I looked up "fresh off the boat". I use the term to describe my grandfather, who has been on the US mainland since the 1940s (from Puerto Rico) because his accent is so unbelievably thick. Like anything, I guess, it can be considered an innocuous description or an insult.

[editorgrrl]

The Oxford English Dictionary has a citation for "fresh off the boat" from 1929 (referring to an Irish American in Lowell, Massachusetts), and "FOB" from 1968 (referring to a Chinese American in Los Angeles, California). They're both labelled "depreciative," meaning they're insults.

[solotrek]

IME, FOB was usually used by other Asian people. I didn't hear anyone outside of that culture use that expression. If someone not Asian wanted to insult me, they'd normally use "Ching Chong" language. 

I never really heard the term FOB before high school. And then it was my small group of mostly East Asian/South Asian friends calling ourselves "fobby" and mocking ourselves and each other. Using really over the top accents- "Me so fobby today". "Ohh, you want be fob today?". Let's go to one of our fob activities today" (science club/math club/etc...). I guess we were just a bunch of horrible weirdos, because the Chinese within the group also adopted the slogan "Chink pride". I suppose we're the people who fuel the popularity of things like Cards Against Humanity.

 

But as insults go, for sure for the "East Asians" it was slanty eyes, "stop eating dogs", and "ching chong" language. For the South Asians it was the head bobbing and the "Apu from Simpsons" accent.

[PRgal]

I never really heard the term FOB before high school. And then it was my small group of mostly East Asian/South Asian friends calling ourselves "fobby" and mocking ourselves and each other. Using really over the top accents- "Me so fobby today". "Ohh, you want be fob today?". Let's go to one of our fob activities today" (science club/math club/etc...). I guess we were just a bunch of horrible weirdos, because the Chinese within the group also adopted the slogan "Chink pride". I suppose we're the people who fuel the popularity of things like Cards Against Humanity.

 

But as insults go, for sure for the "East Asians" it was slanty eyes, "stop eating dogs", and "ching chong" language. For the South Asians it was the head bobbing and the "Apu from Simpsons" accent.

 

Around here, FOB could also mean "label whore"/OTT designerwear (people who buy luxury brands because it's the brand, not because it's nice-looking).  They tend to love monogrammed logos which I avoid like the plague.

[PRgal]

Sometimes, watching this show makes me feel so NOT (culturally) Asian - especially after reading about the experiences from other first generation Asians on this board.  It's really weird for me.  Does anyone else feel the same way, especially when it comes to family relations and food?

[memememe76]

As an Asian-Canadian male a few years older than the kids on the show around that time, I have to say that I am more like the two young boys than Eddie. I was probably more like the grunge cousin. I knew Eddie's in my school, but I didn't really hang out with them. Eddie is my least favourite character on the show. The parents are a bit more aware of pop culture than my own parents. The grandmother is actually quite similar to mine. 

 

The family, IRL, would probably be more involved in the restaurant business (i.e., the kids doing their homework on one of the dining tables), but as I don't much like that side of the show, I'll forgive. 

 

I do have to remind myself that the family is from Taiwan. I'm Vietnamese. I don't think I know anyone Taiwanese. 

[pookat]

I thought this blog post provided a cute explanation of what a FOB is, though clearly, the definition varies somewhat depending on where you live and what background you are.

http://www.hijabtrendz.com/2009/10/27/i-guess-im-the-fob-in-the-relationship/

[PRgal]

I thought this blog post provided a cute explanation of what a FOB is, though clearly, the definition varies somewhat depending on where you live and what background you are.

http://www.hijabtrendz.com/2009/10/27/i-guess-im-the-fob-in-the-relationship/

 

Yeah, it does depend on your background.  For some people, it's out-of-style clothing and crappy decor at home.  For others, it's about being a label wh**e.  Yet others, it's not just the label issue, but being blinged out. 

 

As an Asian-Canadian male a few years older than the kids on the show around that time, I have to say that I am more like the two young boys than Eddie. I was probably more like the grunge cousin. I knew Eddie's in my school, but I didn't really hang out with them. Eddie is my least favourite character on the show. The parents are a bit more aware of pop culture than my own parents. The grandmother is actually quite similar to mine. 

 

The family, IRL, would probably be more involved in the restaurant business (i.e., the kids doing their homework on one of the dining tables), but as I don't much like that side of the show, I'll forgive. 

 

I do have to remind myself that the family is from Taiwan. I'm Vietnamese. I don't think I know anyone Taiwanese. 

 

I didn't think there really WERE Eddie types in Canada - at least not in our age range (I, too, am a few years older than Eddie).  Maybe I'm too sheltered.  The "bad" girls at my school (went to a girls-only school) were the ones who highlighted their hair (usually reddish or brown) and hung out in Chinatown on weekends (because Chinatown in 1990s Toronto wasn't exactly a place where good suburban Chinese kids went - at least not according to my circle), but they weren't into hip hop.  Rather, they liked music from the old country and tried to over-FOB the FOBs. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

There were.  No point generalizing about 30 million people.  Trust me, there were.  Biggie/2Pac/Wu-Tang Clan fever was everywhere.

 

I was probably more like the grunge cousin.

 

Not only did I dress like the grunge cousin then, that episode made me realize I'm dressing like the grunge cousin now.  :)

Edited March 16, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[PRgal]

There were.  No point generalizing about 30 million people.  Trust me, there were.  Biggie/2Pac/Wu-Tang Clan fever was everywhere.

 

 

Not only did I dress like the grunge cousin then, that episode made me realize I'm dressing like the grunge cousin now.  :)

 

I didn't mean Canada as a whole.  I meant (East) Asians, particularly Taiwanese/Chinese/HK people.  So no, it's not 30 million.  That would be the entire country.  Then again, I probably came from a very sheltered community.

[fishcakes]

Most of the ABCs (or those passing as ABCs because their parents came to the US when they were babies/toddlers) I grew up with were like Eddie. Except I'm a generation older than him, so they were into R&B rather than hip hop.

[pookat]

I didn't think there really WERE Eddie types in Canada - at least not in our age range (I, too, am a few years older than Eddie).

I would imagine they existed somewhere in Canada if for no other reason than the fact that they existed even in small town USA, which is probably less diverse than a major Canadian city. By time I got to high school where there was a little more diversity, the Eddie types fell in with the "cool Asians" and were heavily into punk or emo music as well as the look. The rest of us, aka "Asian nerds" (thank you, Mean Girls), maybe dabbled in pop or grunge. Hip Hop wasn't as big in my area, but we definitely had Eddies.

they liked music from the old country and tried to over-FOB the FOBs.

That just reminded of this tweet/Vine that made me smile. Translation: When you are friends with the FOB

https://twitter.com/realmoneyrazan/status/564916897322651648

Also made me sad because it was the last thing posted by a lovely, talented young woman.

[arc]

I didn't mean Canada as a whole.  I meant (East) Asians, particularly Taiwanese/Chinese/HK people.  So no, it's not 30 million.  That would be the entire country.  Then again, I probably came from a very sheltered community.

I'm CBC from Vancouver, was 17 in 1995 instead of 11 or 12 (?) like Eddie, and my CBC friends and I were into hip-hop.  Definitely I liked hip-hop a lot more than rock, alt-rock, etc.

[PRgal]

I'm CBC from Vancouver, was 17 in 1995 instead of 11 or 12 (?) like Eddie, and my CBC friends and I were into hip-hop.  Definitely I liked hip-hop a lot more than rock, alt-rock, etc.

 

I guess you don't realize they exist when you're at an girls-only school where the a slight majority of Asians are HK Chinese who are either foreign students or came after age 10.  And the CBCs are FOB wannabes. They mostly listened to Cantopop.  On the other hand, I was listening to Broadway and country (which was NOT what the white girls were listening to, either...most were into the likes of Alanis.  I kind of liked her too, but not a HUGE fan)) and later, Jewel and Sarah McLachlan.

Edited March 19, 2015 by PRgal

[scartact]

Picking this thread back up in light of Huang's recent twitter criticisms on the show (there's a link in the Media thread, but my response was getting a little too off-topic, so it might fit more in here).

 

I've more or less been willing to defent Huang's opinions with folks on this board and especially pertaining to his book, but I'm kinda on the fence with his current twitter responses to the show. It's tricky. It's not that the show needs his approval (as far as I know), even though its plot is mined from his memoir. The rights have already been sold, production went on, episodes were made, and ABC is currently airing the show. There's no taking that back. Huang goes on to say in his Twitter (I'll quote it here to save folks the agony of going through twitter):

 

Why do sitcoms have to avoid real issues and instead appropriate the symptoms of our problems for entertainment? I don't accept this.

People defend the institution of sitcoms & normalcy saying we should take our real stories to cable/web but that's information SEGREGATION!

 

Sitcoms are the shit they are because we accept them...

 

While I think he makes a good point, I just find it very... unrealistic of him to not have expected these things to happen on an ABC sitcom. That's sort of the foundation of my own irritation with his criticisms. I just wonder what his understanding of the narrative traditions and structural form of situational comedy television is, because ultimately as much as this is not about the typical white family (though sometimes I wonder if there's anything that makes it uniquely Asian-American, other than having an Asian-American cast...), the show is still using "tools of the oppressor," no?  I think if he wants the show to ultimately usurp these narrative forms in sitcom that use real struggles and issues as fodder for entertainment, he has to give the show time to grow into that. It's still finding its footing and it's still trying to thrive in the current competitive television environment, in additon to complimenting whatever television sitcom brand ABC is trying to create.

 

Regardless, I still think it is important to voice criticisms to ensure accountability. He has every right to speak, whether in praise or as a voice of dissent, just as we have the right to speak up and agree, disagree, or pass.

 

This makes me wonder how much Nahnatchka Kahn and the writers will take into account what Huang says. I'm not sure what kind of weight his opinions hold in the writer's room, but I hope they find their footing without having to acquiesce to Huang's every whim. He isn't in the writer's room for a reason, nor is he the showrunner. I consider that a good thing, otherwise I don't know if I can stomach whatever vision for the show Huang may have had.

Edited April 11, 2015 by scartact

[solotrek]

I feel like Eddie Huang is the type of guy who likes to be seen as "against the man". His book came off like that (what I could get through). He treated being a lawyer like that. His Vice show comes off like that. Every interview I've read from him comes off like that. And now that he has a show semi-based on his life on a major network, he has to have these tweets. He can tweet anything he wants to be honest. But as someone who took the LSAT and became a lawyer, there is no way he can be THAT naive to actually believe whatever he's tweeting.

 

He makes valid points. Sitcoms can deal with hard issues without being "after school specials". Do I expect and want this show to deal with a lot more racial and social issues from an Asian American POV? Yes. Do I expect something about his grandmother's feet being bound? Eventually. But for sitcoms to be able to do that, they need to build a fanbase who are willing to explore those topics. You have to have solid funny episodes and build up a reputation of being funny (because it's a sitcom) before people give you the ability to have the sappy or heavy episodes. If you're quirky/sad/sappy/heavy/edgy too early during the run, people tune out.

 

His show has just started. This isn't the 90's where a show like Seinfeld had shitty ratings but could stay on the air and eventually become what it became. This is now, where shows are cancelled within maybe 2 episodes and cancellation bear is out for blood. They don't care about a shows potential, they care about the results now. This is also ABC, the home of some of the most successful sitcoms on TV right now. This is also at a time where this is the first show about Asian Americans in ~20 years. If the first few episodes tried to be a sitcom with abusive parents, a sociopathic kid (someone on the book thread said one of his brothers liked getting beaten?), and a semi-arrogant felon, lecturing people about Chinese/Taiwanese culture, all while being about minorities who haven't been the focal point of a show in decades? Who the hell is going to continue watching? Middle America isn't going to tune in. Most families aren't going to watch the show with their kids.

 

I'm just going to put this out there. I was browsing the library DVD/Blu-ray section and a Caucasian mother came by with her daughter (maybe ~8yo). They were looking for something to bring home to watch later on. The mother pointed out that there was a Modern Family season out on DVD. The daughter asked what Modern Family was about. The mother's response, "it's a funny show, it's kind of like an older Fresh Off The Boat". The daughter agreed to get the DVD. Will that kid be more open to whatever big social/ethnic/racial point the show makes in the future? Probably.

 

People defend the institution of sitcoms & normalcy saying we should take our real stories to cable/web but that's information SEGREGATION!

 

Sitcoms are the shit they are because we accept them...

 

Information segregation? What a ridiculous new buzz phrase he's created.

[scartact]

Honestly, I think that Huang needs to understand that while the show is about him, it isn't just about him anymore. There's a tension developing between the representation of his specific Taiwanese-Chinese-American family narrative and the representation of this particular family as a gateway into Asian-American narratives that I find really compelling from a critical standpoint because I sort of understand it both ways. These characters may resemble a huge amount of Huang's and his family's lives, but they are not carbon copies of his family. Even when the credits say it is "inspired by" his book, that's intentionally evoking this notion. The rhetoric makes all the difference in the translation between memoir to series, and brings in more of the possibility of fictionalization to the show, as opposed to a completely faithful adaptation to the book.

 

I just think that's the nature of the storytelling medium. When you share your stories with others, and especially when it is re-adapted into different forms, you no longer have total agency over that story. You sacrifice it in order to present something that others similar to you can relate to.

 

And now that he has a show semi-based on his life on a major network, he has to have these tweets. He can tweet anything he wants to be honest. But as someone who took the LSAT and became a lawyer, there is no way he can be THAT naive to actually believe whatever he's tweeting.

 

While he can tweet anything he wants, I actually think it's good that he's still trying to engage with material directly inspired by his life, as opposed to sending it off and just walking away counting his dollars. Why wouldn't he believe what he's saying? While I think his address toward sitcoms are kind of hypercritical and a little ridiculous ("information SEGREGATION!" complete with the all caps on the final word erred on the side of amusing to me), he says blatantly that he does not recognize his own life in the show, and that is the central issue he takes with it. As much as I said that Huang needs to understand that while the show is about him, it isn't just about him anymore, I can understand why this is still problematic because... it is still about him. (Apologies if that came out confusing.)

 

The show is moving further and further away from the initial conceit set up by his book, and maybe that's okay. It's sanitizing his narrative and maybe that's okay too for now. That being said, why shouldn't he take issue with the portrayal of this particular Taiwanese-Chinese-American family (based on his own or not)? We can be critical, but still support it. Criticism does not posit the entire dismantling of the apparatus.

Edited April 11, 2015 by scartact

[biakbiak]

Not to retread what I have said in two other threads but I understand and completely support Eddie in the tweets relating to this episode. Yes he needs to distance himself from the show and realize that it isn't about him and is creating a greater showcasing for Asian-American families on a prime time show, the fact that they went to the CPS and the machete and laughed it off is fucked up!

 

It's sad that sitcoms and even dramas on network television are so sanitizied and devoid of real issues, we have regressed so much about what can be dealt with on network television it really upsets me.

[theatremouse]

I tend to think if he'd made a deal with FX or Showtime to make this show, it'd be a very different show. But that's not who bought it. So even if what he's upset about is a logical reaction, he's either being intentionally obtuse in acting surprised by the direction of the show or he's being intentionally argumentative despite what he signed up for. It's as though he thought he was about to change the entire brand and tone of the network. I just can't believe he's actually that naive. I can't help but suspect he might be just a bit disingenuous and might be enjoying perpetuating his own ire for either PR or plain ego purposes.

It's like, if he'd opened an outlet of his restaurant in an NFL stadium and then starting blasting about inadequate concussion safety. Yes, a very serious concern, but what did you expect when we you went into business with them? It undermines any point he might be trying to make.

[Ankai]

How much of a story could the show realistically mine from a story about spanking or whatever else? It is already a stereotype that Asian parents abuse their children, specifically any child who seems to be talented at something. Personally, I wasn't hit a lot as a child, but I do remember my mother occasionally hitting the back of my hand as punishment when I was younger than Evan. That was it, really; no belts or welts or wooden spoons.

 

It seems that the show's form of punishment is having the mother yell for a few seconds. Perhaps there had been ideas for a "smack your kids" elements within various episodes, but they either got shot down immediately or focused grouped out.

[KYBlonde]

I have known quite a few Asians (I think Asian men are quite handsome), and most of them took issue with the term FOB.  It seemed to me it would be the same as someone calling me and others from my corner of the world Hillbillies or Rednecks (although we seem to be all the rage these days - that is something entirely new and surprising).

[Skittl1321]

It's sad that sitcoms and even dramas on network television are so sanitizied and devoid of real issues, we have regressed so much about what can be dealt with on network television it really upsets me.

I'll say it is sad that dramas are sanitized, but a sitcom is a comedy.  I don't want to deal with real issues in a comedy. I want to laugh.

[Ankai]

Well...Louis did hospitalize an eleven-year-old boy this episode, just not his son.

[biakbiak]

I'll say it is sad that dramas are sanitized, but a sitcom is a comedy.  I don't want to deal with real issues in a comedy. I want to laugh.

Different strokes for different folks, I actually like when a something can be funny and also deal with real issues. I would also note that I am not saying that that they should have gone with the abuse storyline in the book because I don't think it rings true to the family that is presented on this show which I view as separate from the book but touching on some of the more serious issues in the book and the way the handled it was off-putting.

 

Heck even in one of the first episodes and again in the video game episodes they did manage to deal with the neighbor kid's pain about being abandoned by his father and the pain the kid felt both in a serious and light way.

[Raja]

Well...Louis did hospitalize an eleven-year-old boy this episode, just not his son.

The show was only background noise at the time so I thought the "kid" was another volunteer and it was two players going after each other until the hospital scene with the he's only 11 reveal.

 

As far a Producer Eddie Huang's concerns I guess that producer credit holds on his head like Reverend Pat Robertson insisting that ABC Family retain family in its name when he sold it.

[Unraveled]

I'm a firm 1.5 generation immigrant (I immigrated to the US when I was very young. I'm also about Huang's age). I didn't grow up in a predominantly Asian community, so I was able to "assimilate" pretty fast.

 

FOB always meant language and culture belonging. People who were FOB didn't speak English very well. People who were FOB still mainly ate their country's food and listened/watched to their country's tv show/movie/music.

 

A large part of the appeal of this show is that is set in the mid 1990s. It's a lot of nostalgia for those that grew up in that decade. I'm glad they kept that in.

[Black Knight]

Just throwing this out there because I haven't seen it brought up in the thread yet: I first came across the term F.O.B. when in college I read the play by the same name by David Henry Hwang (probably best known for M. Butterfly, also Chinglish). It's been nearly 20 years, so I don't remember much...I vaguely recall that it involved a triangle between a woman, her asshole boyfriend, and a nice guy who was FOB and looked down on by the boyfriend for it, but the triangle mostly served as a vehicle to explore the tensions between Americanized and FOB Chinese.