Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[kili]

Now all we need is Lily to be Robin/Woegina's kid or Robin/Zelena's kid and we'll have Days of Woegina's Life.

 

I like it! Since the wild Zelena-is-Marian theory appears to be panning out, I don't think there is any crack theory too crack-a-lackin' for this show.

 

Let's see.....Lily is Robin/Woegina's kid who was transported back in time because of Zelena (Zelena will use Regina's heart, Robin's courage, Regina's brain (can't use Robin's, he doesn't have one) and baby Lily to cast the new time travelling curse - there is no child more pure than that born of the love of Robin/Woegina. Then, Zelena will drag baby Lily along with her into the portal). Zelena's new plan actually doesn't matter because nothing does on this show (they'll make a big deal about it, but there will be no emotional pay-off, so just spin the Roullette Wheel of Reasons to generate the explanation about why she is time-travelling now).  Zelena promptly gets runover by a truck on the interstate (never time/distance travel without knowing what is there - plus she is a true villain so no happy ending for her) and Lily gets adopted. If Emma had not been such a total cow as a 14 year old, she and Lily could have combined to shatter the spell the next morning. So, everything is really Emma's fault (she brought Zelena back as Marian and she was mean to Lily). 

 

Didn't they just create a precedent with Chernabog, a totally magical creature that just went poof the moment it crossed the town line?

 

Not to mention the entire reason Marian went over the line was to escape the magic. The Dark One loses all his power when he crosses the line, Chernabog disappears in a puff of smoke, but Zelena retains her Magical Marian disguise? Okay

[YaddaYadda]

Rumple told both Ursula and Cruella to pretend they were redeemed so they could mingle with the townspeople and gather intel.  My guess is he gave the same directive to Maleficent when he revived her.

 

See, I call bs on that.  Cruella seemed to have done pretty well for herself for one thing and she was like well I lost this one, I'm just going to get me another one of those husbands with deeper wallets and Ursula might not have been happy with her life, but she seemed rather content in her apartment with her fish.  I honestly don't see these women as out right villains.  They were doing just fine until Rumple showed up and decided to dangle that carrot in front of their faces.

 

Maleficent doesn't really need Rumple to tell her to behave a certain way because girlfriend has been fucked over plenty and I'm not even talking about the stuff that went down in the EF with David and Regina.  She was brought over to Storybrooke, kept in her dragon form under the library for 28 years, slayed by Emma, then turned to some sort of zombie of ash when Hook paid her a visit in season 2.

 

If there's anyone who has every right to be angry, it's her.  

 

Chernabog disappears in a puff of smoke, but Zelena retains her Magical Marian disguise?

It's this show, so who the fuck knows what contrived story the writers are about to dump on our heads.

 

And they're also bringing back Cora.  In what capacity?  Flashbacks or resurrecting her?  I think they've run out of villains and stories.

Edited March 3, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Mari]

Those are good points, Rumsy, but do we really think the writers thought of them?

I'm not Rumsy, but thought I'd put a few cents in.

It doesn't make sense. It's convoluted and contradicts everything they've told us about magic so far, and I'd be amazed if it was actually their original plan.

However, they got far, far more "Adultery Queen" blowback than they were expecting--and a lot of it was from people that usually would send kisses and rainbows if Regina were eating puppy hearts while sitting on a chair made of stuffed baby pandas and watching kittens be tortured to death for pleasure.

I can buy that they spent the hiatus scrambling for solutions to cheating issue, and latched onto this, without considering that it doesn't actually make sense, is overly complicated,contradicts the spell barrier around Storybrooke , still means Robin is scummy, and the ones who were upset Regina was dating a man are still going to be upset that she's dating a man. (Graham wouldn't count. He was more of a utility than a relationship.)

[Serena]

I mean, the people complaining about gross crypt sex were SQ fans and the people who haven't drunk the Woegina Kool-Aid, so it's not like retconning it will make it better.

[YaddaYadda]

However, they got far, far more "Adultery Queen" blowback than they were expecting

 

But if that's the reason and let's say Zelena kills Marian, impersonates her, goes back to Robin, sleeps with Robin, doesn't that bring up the whole rape issue again?  I mean, yeah he has sex with her willingly, but he also thinks she's his wife, so that takes away his choices.  Guess that runs in the Mills family.

 

I hope they're very careful to not open that can of worms.  Zelena did not need to impersonate Marian because Regina had no clue who she was in the first place.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Chernabog disappears in a puff of smoke, but Zelena retains her Magical Marian disguise?

We still don't know why Walsh was able to transform into a magical monkey. *side-eye*

[YaddaYadda]

Zelena

 

I guess the other one was really the actress who plays Maleficent then.

[Selina K]

OQ reunion

 

Once Upon a Spoiler said Captain Swan and Outlaw Queen reunions happening in this episode.  i thought we just had the big dramatic good bye spoilers?  It lasts one episode?

Edited March 3, 2015 by Selina K

[TheGreenKnight]

In regards to Marian possibly being Zelena, my one earlier thing against it was when Marian offered to let Regina/Robin be together, but I'm thinking that could be easily explained away if they really wanted to go through with that plot idea. For instance, maybe it really is Marian, but whatever was left of Zelena's "desires" that caused the time portal is inside her and begins to control her at a later point? Or perhaps Zelena's soul and Marian's soul could have become combined, and Zelena become more dominant after time has passed. Or Zelena could've taken over Marian's body/memories completely in order to survive and temporarily lost her memories of herself as Zelena. Who knows, but they could probably write themselves out of it. I know it probably wouldn't be a popular storyline for many here, but I'd honestly enjoy that more than the Regina/Robin thing is now.

[Curio]

i thought we just had the big dramatic good bye spoilers?  It lasts one episode?

Does that surprise you? Rumple was banished and then waltzed back into Storybrooke in about the same amount of time.

[YaddaYadda]

OQ reunion

 

Once Upon a Spoiler said Captain Swan and Outlaw Queen reunions happening in this episode.  i thought we just had the big dramatic good bye spoilers?  It lasts one episode?

I think they're on 420 right now (which oddly we did not get a title for.  Adam is slacking off).  If it's 420, then we don't the order of the scenes anyway.  Could happen at the end, could happen at the beginning.

[Souris]

I believe 4x20 is titled "The Shark." It's written by new staff writer Contrivance Jones (to bring in a character from the old TWoP Alias boards).

Edited March 3, 2015 by Souris

[Serena]

Thinking about the 419 spoiler that Emma says goodbye to Henry and Hook but refuses Snow makes me think the consequences of Snowing's secret carry on until the current episode. If their conflict is ongoing, there's a possibility we'll have a big finale adventure featuring Emma and Snow. Last year was Emma and Hook and it was *their* conflict that was carried through 3B, with the adventure ultimately getting them together. I'm thinking of a similar concept with Emma/Snow/(Charming).

We're at 420 and Emma seems to be behaving normally and displaying the usual amount of cleavage. Has her evil turn already been dealt with?

Edited March 3, 2015 by Serena

[pezgirl7]

Once Upon a Spoiler said Captain Swan and Outlaw Queen reunions happening in this episode.  i thought we just had the big dramatic good bye spoilers?  It lasts one episode?

 

I for one am glad the Emma and Regina road trip didn't last as long as I thought it would.

 

Here are some more photos from filming, including the CaptainSwan reunion (yay):

https://twitter.com/opustwelve

http://emmabuttons.tumblr.com/post/112632866047/but-how-cute-is-this-hug-this-was-during

Edited March 3, 2015 by pezgirl7

[buildmeupbuttercup]

I mean, seriously: "Mwa ha ha, I'll have my revenge on my sister, even if the time portal I opened took me to the wrong time. I'll just impersonate Marian, the wife of Regina's boyfriend. Then Regina will throw me in her dungeon. Emma will get captured by Regina, too, and she'll find a way to escape. Then she'll rescue me while she's at it, but she'll think it's her idea because I'll tell her to go and save herself. Then I'll tell her I want to get back to my family, but she'll insist on taking me back to the future with her in order to save the timeline. And then I'll be safely back in Storybrooke, where I can totally mess with Regina's life without her being any the wiser. And then I'll get my heart frozen by that ice cream lady no one else noticed in town while they were distracted by me, and even when the spell is broken, I'll still be affected, so I'll have to leave town and Robin will have to come with me even though I'd cut him loose to be with Regina because he obviously loves her more than he does his "wife" ... and what was the point of this scheme? I forgot. But I'm sure that every complicated detail will come out exactly the way I planned it."

Don't forget get whacked on the head unconscious by Emma and carried back to the future by Hook! She would definitely bank on that.

 

Writers 101 on what makes a good "gotcha" reveal (like they are probably expecting this to be): when you can go back earlier in the movie/show and see that they've planted the "seeds" or "clues" to this reveal all along and the reveal just adds more nuance and make more sense in hindsight. Not when you can go back and literally refute the "gotcha" reveal at every.step.of.the.way.

 

I'd be amazed if it was actually their original plan.

However, they got far, far more "Adultery Queen" blowback than they were expecting--and a lot of it was from people that usually would send kisses and rainbows if Regina were eating puppy hearts while sitting on a chair made of stuffed baby pandas and watching kittens be tortured to death for pleasure.

I can buy that they spent the hiatus scrambling for solutions to cheating issue, and latched onto this, without considering that it doesn't actually make sense, is overly complicated,contradicts the spell barrier around Storybrooke , still means Robin is scummy, and the ones who were upset Regina was dating a man are still going to be upset that she's dating a man. (Graham wouldn't count. He was more of a utility than a relationship.)

This. I think the entire writers room has such big **ReginaisAWESOME** blinders on that while they think they're writing badass!Evil Queen they are actually writing Sick,sadistic!Evil Queen and when they get called out on it they panic and have to play damage control. The Graham rape/heart crushing? Ignore the fact that he was a potential love interest for Emma--who you accuse of ruining your happy ending and now have an abusive pseudo "friendship" with--cuz he's dead so what does it matter. Slaughtered village? Again forget it ever happened because hey Snow seems to have and she was there! But this one became "problematic" (as the fandom loves to throw around that word). How do you call True Love for a couple where one half is a widower because the other murdered/executed the first wife? It may have started with SQ and people who had no love for Regina anyway but enough of the mainstream media picked it up. Heck Lana had to answer questions about it on GMA right? So this sounds like its their "best" attempt at a solution they could pull outta their asses during hiatus. "Regina's innocent problem solved!" Doesn't change the fact that while her hands would be "clean" his still have a whole mess of adultery on them (with the whole not knowing it was fake!Marian thing) but they really only care about Regina's halo so... still problem solved!

 

This show is a mess.

[pezgirl7]

From TV Line:
 

Question: Do you have any scoop on what’s going with Once Upon a Time’s Hook? —Jessica
Ausiello: Episode 15 (airing March 15) will reveal why the pirate has a quite complicated past with sea witch Ursula — and the nature of it is “far worse” than any romantic indiscretion, says co-creator Eddy Kitsis. “When you think about what would be worse than having your heart broken, I would say having your soul crushed. You’re going to see the entire flashback of what happened, with the origin of Ursula.”
 
Question: Is Once Upon a Time actually considering a Belle/Hook pairing or are they just keeping the two busy, while Rumple and Emma are busy with the Queens of Darkness? —Linda
Ausiello: No, no, no. They’re not hinting at a Belle/Hook pairing. Belle and Will Scarlett, however, may be a different story, as you’ll see teased this Sunday. As series co-creator Eddy Kitsis notes, Belle and Will, after all, have “a lot in common,” in that “they both fell in love with villains (Rumple and Wonderland’s Red Queen, respectively), and they both hoped that these villains would be redeemed.” And they both were let down. With Rumple banished (as far as Belle knows!) and Anastasia MIA, “Anytime you have your heart broken,” Kitsis says, “you look for a way to smile again.”
 
Question: Any Once Upon a Time scoop you can share about the infamous Cruella de Vil? –Mason
Ausiello: If you’re wondering how Cruella wound up in Long Island, N.Y. while her previous associates Rumplestiltskin and the Charmings landed in Storybrooke, Maine, co-creator Adam Horowitz promises that in an upcoming episode “all the pieces on the chessboard are laid out,” explaining “who wound up where and why.”

I can't believe someone actually thought Hook/Belle was going to be a thing.

Edited March 3, 2015 by pezgirl7

[Serena]

Listen, I love Hook and think he's great. But there's a Serena-thinks-he's-great level and able-to-crush-a-goddess's-soul level, and Hook is... not the last one. He's a dude without magic and she's the daughter of Poseidon. WTF?

[Curio]

If this whole Marian=Zelena theory is true, I'd be really curious to see if the writers told Christie Laing about the twist before Season 4 started. If the writers had this planned from the beginning, you'd think they'd want to tell Christie about the secret so she could act certain scenes out a different way or know her character's true intentions and motivation. But looking back at 4A, I never really got the sense from her acting that there was any duplicity going on. If we read an interview where we learn that she was just as surprised as everyone else when she read the script for the first time...then I smell a big, huge retcon.

[YaddaYadda]

Listen, I love Hook and think he's great. But there's a Serena-thinks-he's-great level and able-to-crush-a-goddess's-soul level, and Hook is... not the last one. He's a dude without magic and she's the daughter of Poseidon. WTF?

Her younger self probably fell in love with him, he made her promises, she brought him something he needed, then he left her high and dry.  never mind that you know, he lived on the sea where she could have probably conjured up a storm and drowned him and his crew.

[Serena]

Her younger self probably fell in love with him, he made her promises, she brought him something he needed, then he left her high and dry. never mind that you know, he lived on the sea where she could have probably conjured up a storm and drowned him and his crew.

But they specifically said it's not romantic. I don't get the heart vs soul distinction, myself.

[pezgirl7]

But they specifically said it's not romantic. I don't get the heart vs soul distinction, myself.

 

I was just going to say that. Maybe Hook killed her lover, or her father? Although how the heck he could kill a God, I do not know. And I would still call that being heart broken. I was thinking maybe he somehow took her Goddess powers away, but this was when she was 19, and she had powers when she scolded Regina through the mirror, so that probably isn't it. I really have no idea what it could be!

 

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO ROLAND?!! More photos from today:

http://yvrshoots.com/2015/03/shoot-once-upon-a-times-jennifer-morrison-colin-odonoghue-ginnifer-goodwin-josh-dallas-lana-parrilla-sean-maguire-jared-gilmore-rebecca-mader-kristin-bauer-van-straten-agnes-bruckner-m.html

I hope that new kid is a stand-in.

 

Zelena is wearing Marian's boots as well, so I think that pretty much seals the deal that she was pretending to be Marian. I guess the question now is when did the switch happen, and did Zelena kill Marian. They filmed a scene together in the EF, but I don't know when that was suppose to take place.

Edited March 3, 2015 by pezgirl7

[kili]

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO ROLAND?!!

 

He grew. That's what happens to little kids. There is that magical time when they transform from little people to the tween years where they really look different.

 

It happens when a year passes in the real life of the actor, but only 5 days on the show.

 

One of the worst things about Marian being Zelena is that Marian leaving town was a great excuse to shift adorable Roland off-screen. Otherwise, in Season 12, Roland will be the only five year old who shaves.

 

That sun is awfully bright.

Edited March 3, 2015 by kili

[RadioGirl27]

Where's my little hobbit?!!!

I'm starting to think that Lily is somehow related to Maleficent. They are both there and in one pic they seem to be facing each other (the one with Hook and Emma cuddling).

About Hook and Ursula, I think it's going to be something about her voice. There was a casting call for someone called Miranda or something like that (I'm on my phone and I can't find the link) that sounded a lot like young Ursula and it said something about having a singing voice. I think Hook did something to her that ended with her loosing that singing voice.

Edited March 3, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Serena]

They changed the Roland actor? Cue fandom meltdown

[pezgirl7]

He grew. That's what happens to little kids. There is that magical time when they transform from little people to the tween years where they really look different.

 

It happens when a year passes in the real life of the actor, but only 5 days on the show.

 

Sorry I am not sure if you are joking, but I am pretty sure that new kid is not Raphael Alejandro who used to play Roland. I will miss his dimples and little Hobbit waddle if they've replace him. :(

 

About Hook and Ursula, I think it's going to be something about her voice. There was a casting call for someone called Miranda or something like that (I'm on my phone and I can't find the link) that sounded a lot like young Ursula and it said something about having a singing voice. I think Hook did something to her that ended with her loosing that singing voice.

Good call! I bet that's it. She probably loved to sing, and somehow Hook stole her voice. But why?

[daxx]

I was just going to say that. Maybe Hook killed her lover, or her father? Although how the heck he could kill a God, I do not know. And I would still call that being heart broken. I was thinking maybe he somehow took her Goddess powers away, but this was when she was 19, and she had powers when she scolded Regina through the mirror, so that probably isn't it. I really have no idea what it could be!

 

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO ROLAND?!! More photos from today:

http://yvrshoots.com/2015/03/shoot-once-upon-a-times-jennifer-morrison-colin-odonoghue-ginnifer-goodwin-josh-dallas-lana-parrilla-sean-maguire-jared-gilmore-rebecca-mader-kristin-bauer-van-straten-agnes-bruckner-m.html

I hope that new kid is a stand-in.

 

Zelena is wearing Marian's boots as well, so I think that pretty much seals the deal that she was pretending to be Marian. I guess the question now is when did the switch happen, and did Zelena kill Marian. They filmed a scene together in the EF, but I don't know when that was suppose to take place.

h

Katrina just tweeted its Roland's double.

[Mathius]

Are we SURE Zelena was Marian all the time, or has Zelena just possessed Marian? I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, if she still looked like Christina Lang in the car until they drive into Storybrooke, and then she's Rebecca Mader due to magic. If Zelene had just been disguised as Marian the whole time, then why the hell would Emma and Regina be bringing her back with them to Storybrooke?

[kili]

I think Hook did something to her that ended with [ursula]  loosing that singing voice.

 

Yet Ariel lost her entire voice earlier in the series and did not become an uber-villain. The worst she did was glower at the woman who stole her voice.

 

Of course, maybe in the writer's room, that makes Ariel an uber-villain.

 

It really is very hard to find something evil for your characters to do which is the most soul-crushingest thing ever that totally justifies somebody turning into an uber-villain when your heros have experienced just about everything and worse from your biggest victim.

[HoodlumSheep]

About Hook and Ursula, I think it's going to be something about her voice. There was a casting call for someone called Miranda or something like that (I'm on my phone and I can't find the link) that sounded a lot like young Ursula and it said something about having a singing voice. I think Hook did something to her that ended with her loosing that singing voice.

I don't see how that could be soul crushing though. I get how it could be devastating if she really loved singing. But soul crushing?

I think I won't be checking spoilers as much anymore. Mainly because there just seems to be so much going on in 4b. I can't keep up.

[KingOfHearts]

 

If Zelene had just been disguised as Marian the whole time, then why the hell would Emma and Regina be bringing her back with them to Storybrooke?

It really looks like Zelena and Maleficent have been redeemed. No cleavage, their hair is out, they're conservatively dressed, and they're all just standing out on the sidewalk. Rehearsal or not, this seems so lighthearted.

[pezgirl7]

Katrina just tweeted its Roland's double.

 

Whew, thanks! Are they actually filming these scenes though? Will they think the audience won't notice? Perhaps they plan on doing some clever editing with the scene.

 

I really think Marian has to be dead. It's the only way that I see for OutlawQueen to be end game, which I think it is. 

 

I don't see how that could be soul crushing though. I get how it could be devastating if she really loved singing. But soul crushing?

 

I watch American Idol, and after seeing the reaction of some of the contestants who don't get put through, I could see it as being called soul-crushing if it means that much to them.

 

It really looks like Zelena and Maleficent have been redeemed. No cleavage, their hair is out, they're conservatively dressed, and they're all just standing out on the sidewalk. Rehearsal or not, this seems so lighthearted.

 

I think Mal might be redeemed, but I don't think Zelena is. She's dressed like Marian, and the people watching the filming said that Regina dragged her away. Most of the photos are from rehearsal which is why everyone is so friendly.

[KateJones]

Maybe this is Operation Mongoose's payoff and it's Regina's happy ending, which is retcon and Marian was bad the whole time and we are rewriting rules of magic and making it all up as we go along to give her the happy ending and absolve her of any responsibility for adultery and crypt sex. And maybe if magic indeed has a price the next two episodes after will deal with the drastic consequences of Regina's happy ending.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Most of the photos are from rehearsal which is why everyone is so friendly.

I know. If Zelena is coming back, she is most assuredly going to be redeemed. They wouldn't just bring her back to be the Wicked Witch a second time... would they...? TS,TW. We're doomed.

[RadioGirl27]

I don't see how that could be soul crushing though. I get how it could be devastating if she really loved singing. But soul crushing?

I'm probably wrong, it's just a theory. But loosing your ability to sing (or dance, or play football or any other thing that makes you happy) can be soul crushing, specially if you are really young or inmature.

And, really, we are talking about A&E. If saving someone's life it's a horrible thing, almost anything can be soul crushing.

[Emma]

I go out of town for a while and come back to this. The amount of wtf I've said out loud is pretty comical. Or maybe it's the booze kicking in.

Only this show.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Emma

[Souris]

Good call! I bet that's it. She probably loved to sing, and somehow Hook stole her voice. But why?

 

Maybe it was like a siren's call, and he could "bottle" it and use it to lure the king he blamed for Liam's death to his own death.

[OnceUponAJen]

I was thinking about the sirens too. But isn't it against your own self interest to piss off a sea goddess if you're a pirate? One would think after that, you'd have to become one of those land locked pirates who enjoy sustainable farming.

Edited March 4, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Souris]

One would think. But he was probably more concerned with revenge than self-preservation (which also showed up a lot later in his revenge-seeking against Rumple).

Edited March 4, 2015 by Souris

[worryfaraway]

Poor Marian. Aren't she supposed to be The Sheriff and let Regina be with Robin?

And why did Maleficent and Zelena wear the same colors?

Edited March 4, 2015 by worryfaraway

[YaddaYadda]

So?  This stuff has been sort of weird and kind of overwhelming all at once.  If Lily is somehow related to Maleficent, then it explains Snow's nightmare and her asking Maleficent not to hurt her family.  That's probably the reason they go out of town in the first place, to find Lily, allowing Emma to use her bonds person skills to track her down.  

 

I'm now curious to see if there's any Emma/parents interaction.

[Rumsy4]

There was a filming spoiler about Zelena and Marian filming in the "Enchanted Forest", right?  That does seem to indicate that Marian was Zelena the whole time. Maybe Zelena had some plans of revenge, but she ended up being cursed by Ingrid. So, all her plans had to be put on hold. Who even knows with these writers? 

[snarkastic]

Is it too much to hope for with Zelena's return, everyone finding out Rumpel "killed" Zelena and basically set off the whole time travel adventure.

[LizaD]

So Lily is Mal's daughter after all? I'd like to point out I said that way back when and prefaced it as a wild theory and that Snow and Charming babynapped her. Not so wild after all I guess. Is the daddy Stefan, making her Aurora's half-sister too?

So that makes another way to get to land without magic that Rump totally missed right? How many is that now? Route number 100?

So to throw out another one of my wild speculations, Marian is Zelena but Zelena is really Cora! You know that woman has a got a weird fetish for getting with the same man as her kid.

[retrograde]

Does sound like Lily is Mal's kid:

 

Yeah, the way Emma brought Lily to Malificent, I definitely think they are somehow related. Malificent looked like she couldn’t believe what she was seeing but at the same time happy. And after that they walked away together. So yeah, I personay think she is her daughter, but here you never know how they are related.

 

[YaddaYadda]

Lily as Maleficent's love child. It's an interesting twist. Maybe Aurora Sr had the child banished or something because Stefan couldn't keep it in his pants.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Yeah, the way Emma brought Lily to Malificent, I definitely think they are somehow related.

The tree in the promo looks like the enchanted tree from the pilot. I'm assuming, perhaps, that Maleficent was going to use it to protect her daughter from the curse or something else, then Snow and Charming secretly stole it, feigning ignorance at the war council. Maleficent wanted to use it because she could go with her daughter, but she was forced to use some other way that could only take one. If it was a secret love child, she probably would keep her intentions secret to Snow and Charming. Thus they didn't know about the fact it can take two. I don't know, something nutty like that.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[LizaD]

This isn't going to make a lick of sense is it? First Snow and Charming didn't know what Woegina was going to do until they asked Rump and he told them about the curse and to get their baby to safety. How long was it from the Rump meeting, the war council and giving birth? Snow already looked like she was ready to pop in that scene with Rump. Which also begs the question why Rump didn't ensure his failsafe was safe? He left it up to Snow and Charming to take care of his business? And Woegina being such a good friend not only imprisoned her bff but wouldn't spare her bff's baby either?

But at least this means Lily isn't the Author right? They're not going to double up her role are they? So who is it? The fake peddler?

My other wild speculation is that Woegina's the author herself and that's the giant curveball A&E said was coming in ep.20.

Edited March 4, 2015 by LizaD

[KingOfHearts]

 

Snow already looked like she was ready to pop in that scene with Rump.

Well according to the press release, this does happen while the curse is looming. Snow doesn't look as pregnant in the promo, so yeah I'm expecting a plot hole.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

In Ariel, didn't they say that Ursula hadn't been seen in centuries? Maybe Hook trapped her somehow, and that's what crushed her soul. Remember there was an urn similar to Elsa's in the Jolly Roger in Snow Drifts? Of course, with the Queens of Darkness already active while Belle is imprisoned with Rumple this narrows the timeline quite a bit, but what else is new? Since Ariel happens after Belle has already left but before Regina tells Rumple she's dead, Ursula would have to have been freed in the time between Snow Drifts and Ariel, but maybe she stayed on the downlow and that's why Ariel doesn't know she was active again. Maybe Ursula goes after Hook for revenge and that's when Hook meets Maleficent, who tells him that Regina is holding Belle prisoner. I just had the horrible thought that Lily is Maleficent and Hook's child. 

[Souris]

It's likely IMO that Ursula hadn't been seen in so long because she was no longer a goddess. Maybe she became a hermit (crab) after her soul was crushed and brooded in solitude. Stayed in her shell, as it were.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry for that last one.