Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[XtremeOne1]

Elizabeth MItchell's "I'm going to build a snowman" delivery was awesome in that promo. Can't wait to see it.

[Lieutenant]

So, my poor CS shipping heart had a thought.  I forget what episode the sneak pics of Hook in jail are from, but I'm praying that it's a result of his telling Emma everything, and her having to lock him up accordingly?  I'm sure he would rather serve out his "punishment" that way, having given Emma full knowledge of the situation; rather than keeping yet another huge, vital secret from her.  

[sharky]

That would be interesting and the total opposite of Gold, who doesn't want the woman he loves to have any kind of control over him.

BTW, was anyone else kind of "meh" about the new Hook clothes tonight? I feel like I may have spoiled myself too much with at one, like "Whatever. I saw that in August." The clothes are totally cool but I had my frak out a few months ago.

[FabulousTater]

BTW, was anyone else kind of "meh" about the new Hook clothes tonight? I feel like I may have spoiled myself too much with at one, like "Whatever. I saw that in August." The clothes are totally cool but I had my frak out a few months ago.

Ya, same here. I mean, I thought Hook looked really good, but I spoiled myself, so... And that right there is the double-edged sword that is the spoiler.

[Jean]

So now I'm wondering if Anna did put Elsa in the urn to protect her from the hat? That's the kind of backwards logic these writers excel at.

My guess is Rumple needs DQ's, Elsa's and Emma's magic to get the hat fully souped up or some combo of them. If they're going to "redeem" the DQ, I bet she goes in the hat for Elsa/Emma. This also means Rumple will get to outsmart everyone until Anna gets reunited with the rest of them in Ep. 9 and reveal all.

I also think Rumple doesn't have the full info on the hat, just like with the dagger. There's a twist coming with it. Instead of getting the hat's power maybe it unleashes everyone that's been trapped in it instead.

Rumple's line about love is a weapon is going to come bite him in the ass isn't it? Either in the form of true love bullet Emma or Elsa/Anna's true love act for a callback to the movie.

Leech?  Why, whoever do you mean, Jean?

Lol I don't want to type out the real name. According to A&E's cult, it's probably blasphemy.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Jean

[retrograde]

I also think Rumple doesn't have the full info on the hat, just like with the dagger. There's a twist coming with it. Instead of getting the hat's power maybe it unleashes everyone that's been trapped in it instead.

Answering in non-spoiler speculation.

[Souris]

I wonder if Maleficent is in the hat and ends up getting released for 4B? (I feel like we may have talked about this before....) Though how she would have gotten in there is a mystery. And how the box got from Anna in Arendelle to the honeymoon mansion is yet to be explained. I suppose they could say it came over in the second curse.

 

I do love the idea of going into the Hat World for an ep or two. We could have a parade of magical beings. They could even bring in Zelena and Peter Pan for cameos, by saying their magical essence ended up there after they "died."

[YaddaYadda]

I forget what episode the sneak pics of Hook in jail are from, but I'm praying that it's a result of his telling Emma everything, and her having to lock him up accordingly?  I'm sure he would rather serve out his "punishment" that way, having given Emma full knowledge of the situation; rather than keeping yet another huge, vital secret from her.

 

Isn't 4x09 when the shit is going to hit the fan for Rumple?  I think he'll probably come out with it and she might end up being the one to go to Belle over the whole thing. 

[kili]

I forget what episode the sneak pics of Hook in jail are from

 

Working backwards from the script covers that Adam posts as they begin filming an episode, I believe they are working on episode 4x09 right now (called "Fall" posted on Oct 11th - they'll probably be a new one soon - the street brawl is probably for 4x10). September 25th, he posted 4x08 ("Smash the Mirror"),  September 13th - 4x07 ("The Snow Queen"), September 1st 4x06 ("Family Business")  and August 23rd 4x05 ("Breaking Glass").

 

The Hook in jail picture was from a filming on September 12th and the exterior jail set itself was constructed the weekend of September 20th.  That would seem to put the jail cell scene in 4x06 "Family business" (possibly 4x07). So, Hook probably gets to carry the idiot ball for 2.5 episodes (at least) although he may have to share it with Henry.

 

ETA: Fixed the picture date.

Edited October 20, 2014 by kili

[RadioGirl27]

Are we really sure that pic means Hook is going to be arrested? As far as we know, he could be there talking to Emma. It wasn't a pic from the actual shooting but something Jennifer put in her instagram (or twiter, I'm not sure).

[YaddaYadda]

I'm worried that wretch Henry finds out what's going on between Rumple/Hook or sees them together one too many times and runs to Emma and tattles since he's apparently not okay (whatever that means) with Hook but just wants Emma to be happy (WTF does that mean?).

[NotBothered]

Since we've seen pictures of Hook running around with the hat, I'm also wondering if this "turning away from the darkness in your heart" stuff comes back.  I was very unclear about the mythology (do you only have to do it once?  can you never have succumbed?), because with the hand and all the talk of Hook having changed I was waiting for it to turn out that Rumple was trying to manipulate Hook into turning away from the darkness in his heart so that he could do something with the hat.

 

I'm hoping Hook comes clean soon.  I do not have the patience for a repeat of the Zelena plot line, since I'm going to assume the reason that everyone is okay with Henry working for Gold is because they think Belle has the dagger.  Because it makes no sense otherwise.  I actually shouted "I hate this plot line" at my TV last night during Henry and Regina's conversation in the vault.  

[Serena]

Working backwards from the script covers that Adam posts as they begin filming an episode, I believe they are working on episode 4x09 right now (called "Fall" posted on Oct 11th - they'll probably be a new one soon - the street brawl is probably for 4x10). September 25th, he posted 4x08 ("Smash the Mirror"),  September 13th - 4x07 ("The Snow Queen"), September 1st 4x06 ("Family Business")  and August 23rd 4x05 ("Breaking Glass").

 

The Hook in jail picture was from a filming on September 12th and the exterior jail set itself was constructed the weekend of September 20th.  That would seem to put the jail cell scene in 4x06 "Family business" (possibly 4x07). So, Hook probably gets to carry the idiot ball for 2.5 episodes (at least) although he may have to share it with Henry.

 

ETA: Fixed the picture date.

You are more optimistic than I am. Filming from 409 shows Hook is still hanging out with Rumple. I'm afraid it's going to last until pretty much 410/411 (when shit is supposed to hit the fan for Rumple)

[kili]

Filming from 409 shows Hook is still hanging out with Rumple. I'm afraid it's going to last until pretty much 410/411 (when shit is supposed to hit the fan for Rumple)

 

I know. The writers can keep the idiot ball in play for a long time. I'm just being hopeful. If Hook helps Rumple capture a bunch of magical people in the hat for 7 episodes, I'm not sure Emma will be quick to forgive him (only Regina and Rumple get forgiven that quickly). She certainly should trust his judgement. It took Rumple no time at all to turn the tables on Hook because he knew that blackmailers never stop. Shouldn't a blackmailer realize that as well? I'm hoping that at least Hook decides to try to minimize the damage that Rumple is doing even while pretending to work with him. He's got to realize he's dead man walking regardless of what he does, right? They can't make him that stupid, can they? Okay, you're right. They can and they will. Even though just last year he knew not to give into Blackbeard's extortion and worked to actively thwart Zelena, he's totally going to do everything Rumple wants for "reasons" that will never be explained.

[OnceUponAJen]

I'm afraid that Hook isn't going to have the fortitude to come clean to Emma given that he's already trying to cover things up. But as it snowballs, I hope he will confide in Emma since she is "the savior", after all. Why not leverage off your girlfriend having some pretty badass magic of her own? I hate to see Hook become the villian's stooge again.

[NotBothered]

Maybe Emma's superpower will actually work again and she'll figure it out quickly.  They mentioned it again, and I'd really wish they'd either use it or stop reminding us about it.

[kili]

I'm afraid that Hook isn't going to have the fortitude to come clean to Emma given that he's already trying to cover things up.

 

Which is rich because he spent the first three episodes of this season trying to get her to trust him. He has to trust her too.

[YaddaYadda]

Hook was standing right there when Rumple and the Apprentice spoke about Rumple's quest for power.  The whole thing looked like it freaked him out.  At this point, one can hope that he'll let Emma know what's going on and run the long con in an effort to get the hat away from Rumple.  Then the audience can find out that Emma knew all along.

 

Which is rich because he spent the first three episodes of this season trying to get her to trust him. He has to trust her too.

This is what I find kind of disheartening.  Trust is a two way street and he always seems to be worried about her reaction.  Though with the whole Zelena thing, it seemed like he was going to David to let him know what was going on but found Emma instead.  And the sheriff's station was pretty crowded. 

 

I'm still very iffy on the whole hand thing.  I think Rumple did something to force Hook's hand (ha!) to turn the tables on him.  But after this, I think they pretty much solved the whole hand issue.  I doubt Hook will ever want it back again.

[kili]

Though with the whole Zelena thing, it seemed like he was going to David to let him know what was going on but found Emma instead.  And the sheriff's station was pretty crowded.

 

That would be kind of fun if Hook/Charming worked together to pull a long con on Rumple. It would be great if the non-magicals could be useful once in a very long while.

 

 

Hook was standing right there when Rumple and the Apprentice spoke about Rumple's quest for power.

 

I don't know how Hook can ever think it is a good idea to let Rumple get more power especially if he's sucking people into a hat for that quest. Hook knows how much damage Rumple does with the power he has. He doesn't need more. Hook has to be willing to sacrifice himself and his own happiness in order to stop Rumple. To just go capitulate and help Rumple achieve his goals in hopes that Emma won't find out (which he knows she will) is a complete violation of his character. Sure, he's been a selfish dude, but he has to know this isn't going to end well for himself and that Rumple's quest will bring him into conflict with the one he loves and her family. Even his own selfish motivation should be to stop Rumple.

Edited October 20, 2014 by kili

[HoodlumSheep]

That line about him taking Rumple down with him was rather ominous. I wonder if that will happen eventually. And I'm not just talking about Emma and Belle being mad at them. Maybe they'll end up both sucked into the hat somehow? Just a guess. I wish the zelena incident didn't happen in 3b, because i like this "hook gets cursed" storyline better. Blackmailing Rumple was stupid, but how the kiss curse was handled was worse in my opinion.

[Serena]

If the hat only sucks magical people, Hook can't end up in the hat. Emma can, though, and I REALLY don't see Hook keeping it secret that there's a weapon so powerful against Emma. I don't remember, did he realize that Rumple is on a quest to suck magical beings?

 

But honestly, why did Rumple even involve Hook? He doesn't need his help, and he risks Hook getting a conscience attack and spilling everyone any moment. Like why?

[Crimson Belle]

But honestly, why did Rumple even involve Hook? He doesn't need his help, and he risks Hook getting a conscience attack and spilling everyone any moment. Like why?

 

Because nothing on this show is so powerful as the contrivance fairy.

[Bluerang1]

Was Zelena our only innocent villain? I don't recall her ever killing anyone oh wait she killed Neal didn't she. One compared to multiple by Rumple, Regina, Cora etc is very miniscule. I'm really mad that they had Rumple kill her. I wonder if the false tapes will be revisted and restored to what they looked like originally so they would see that Rumple killed her. I also don't uunderstand why there was a security camera outside the Apprentice's house. You would think that the footage would show Hook punching Will. I'd just like for them to stick with Rumple being a villain and no redemption nonsense, and give Belle common sense. Alas the writers said 4a will be a good for Rumpbelle didn't they?

[Emma]

Nothing, not even Regina's shit, will make me flip tables faster than if Hook continues to lie to Emma. I won't be able to handle another Zelena crapfest. I'd rather Emma sprout a second head and talk about going back to NY again.

You don't get Emma Swan to trust you, open herself up to you, and then take a giant shit on her. Don't disappoint me show. Which of course you will.

I have this irrational need for the hat business to blow up in Rumples face. So much it's got me rooting for Belle to drop kick his ass. I mean really. I never thought those words would come out of my mouth.

[NotBothered]

 I don't remember, did he realize that Rumple is on a quest to suck magical beings?

I can't remember exactly what he told Hook, but I think maybe it originally just sounded like their powers would get sucked in, not the actual person.  

[RadioGirl27]

Hook has to be willing to sacrifice himself and his own happiness in order to stop Rumple.

This is going to be his act of true love that would save him in the end.

 

 

You don't get Emma Swan to trust you, open herself up to you, and then take a giant shit on her. Don't disappoint me show. Which of course you will.

I'm getting ready for disappointment, because I'm pretty sure the writers don't see the wrongness in this.

Edited October 20, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[HoodlumSheep]

Doesn't Belle know some basic magic skills? Like didn't she use a locator spell to help find Eric? Or did I just completely make that up? Would that even count as possessing magic?

Maybe Belle will get sucked into the hat, and Rumple will finally begin to see the error of his ways?

[Ariah]

 

I'm getting ready for disappointment, because I'm pretty sure the writers don't see the wrongness in this.

The wrters still can't see why what Neal did to Emma was bad, so... There you go.

[Jean]

I think if anyone is conning Rumple it'd be DQ. She knew the apprentice as a kid and the hat popped back up at the same time she made her move. The house is probably hers too. Not to mention Anna was in Arendelle with it and the DQ is hanging out there at that time. She's probably using the hat as a way to distract Rumple from whatever her goal is and Rumple thinks he's using her to distract the Storybrooke people from his mission. Which is working because that's all they're focused on. I don't think that will change until Anna gets to town and she knows what's up with both Rumple and DQ.

 

I'm really curious to see why DQ is so much harsher with Elsa than Emma. I hope it's more than just bitterness towards her sister.

[Selina K]

 

You don't get Emma Swan to trust you, open herself up to you, and then take a giant shit on her. Don't disappoint me show. Which of course you will.

Really, really hoping that Hook is playing a long con on Rumple and Emma is on board with it.  Please. I cannot remember what our future Captain Swan spoilers indicate, but with things, per spoilers, going bad for Rumple by episode 9, I am hopeful that this is by design and not 'Belle suddenly remembers Rumple is an untrustworthy asshole.'

[YaddaYadda]

Rumple isn't an untrustworthy person, it's the people around him!

 

I'll go all positive and say that Hook has filled Emma in on everything that happened.  I guess the mission will be for Hook to take the hat from Rumple and figure out a way to destroy it.

 

I've been wondering if 4B won't be taking place in the hat.  I mean it is sort of a different universe.

[RadioGirl27]

Breaking Glass press release
 

"Breaking Glass" - Regina reluctantly teams up with Emma to search for the Snow Queen after Sidney, who is once again Regina’s prisoner in the mirror, discovers her whereabouts and agrees to lead her to the location. With Belle babysitting baby Neal, a nervous Mary Margaret and David prepare for their first date night away from their child and find themselves on a mission to track down Will Scarlet, who has escaped from the town jail, and Elsa sees Anna in the Storybrooke woods. Meanwhile, back in the past, young Emma finds herself a kindred spirit when she befriends a girl who, like her, is a runaway orphan, on "Once Upon a Time," SUNDAY, OCTOBER 26 (8:00-9:00 p.m., ET) on the ABC Television Network.
“Once Upon a Time” stars Ginnifer Goodwin as Snow White/Mary Margaret, Jennifer Morrison as Emma Swan, Lana Parrilla as the Evil Queen/Regina, Josh Dallas as Prince Charming/David Nolan, Emilie de Ravin as Belle, Colin O’Donoghue as Hook, Jared S. Gilmore as Henry, Michael Socha as Will Scarlet and Robert Carlyle as Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold.
Guest starring are Giancarlo Esposito as Sidney/Magic Mirror, Georgina Haig as Elsa, Elizabeth Lail as Anna, Oliver Rice as King Arendelle, Pascale Hutton as Queen Arendelle, Nicole Munoz as Lily, Barclay Hope as Lily’s father, Kelly-Ruth Mercier as manager, Anson Hibbert as policeman, Ilias Webb as Kevin, Abby Ross as young Emma and Elizabeth Mitchell as Snow Queen.
“Breaking Glass” was written by Kalinda Vazquez & Scott Nimerfro and directed by Alrick Riley.

Since when MM and David trust Belle so much to leave her with baby Neal?

 

After reading that, I'm afraid they are going to compare Emma and her childhood friend with Emma and Regina, to show as how Emma and Regina are so alike.

Edited October 20, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[sharky]

I'm kinding of thinking that too. Someone in the episode thread mentioned the long con and it got me thinking. Both Colin and Jennifer have said that Hook and Emma are alike because, among other things, they are both thieves. So what if they are working together to figure out what that hat is and what can be done to eliminate the threat? After last night, I can't imagine Hook ever wanting the hand back, but that's what happens according to BTS pics. So yea, I feel like something else will have to be up.

ETA: Could one of the DQ's powers be shape shifting? Or could she use a memory spell on Emma? Because the friend thing just seems like a great way to introduce DQ into Emma's life.

Edited October 20, 2014 by sharky

[Stuffy]

Since when MM and David trust Belle so much to leave her with baby Neal?

Belle probably needs the practice for when she finds out she's pregnant after discovering Rumple's betrayal.  

Edited October 20, 2014 by Stuffy

[NotBothered]

 After last night, I can't imagine Hook ever wanting the hand back, but that's what happens according to BTS pics. 

Wait....what did I miss?  The hand is back again at the end of the arc?

[scenicbyway]

Belle finally has a storyline! Forget opening the library, let's stick her with Neal again! How is Belle a main character? I sure hope the others get paid more because she only has one or two lines per episode, if that.

[sharky]

NotBothered -- From scenes they filmed I think last week, there were photos of Hook heading into Granny's with the hat in his left hand. But there's no way Killian would agree to that after what happened. So if it's not the long con, the other potential option that we've tossed aeound already is the frozen heart.

[YaddaYadda]

Belle probably needs the practice for when she finds out she's pregnant after discovering Rumple's betrayal.

 

Things like this should never be put out in the universe.  Rumple is the last person who should have a baby.

 

After last night, I can't imagine Hook ever wanting the hand back, but that's what happens according to BTS pics.

 

Really?  He gets the hand back?  The last filming sequence that I saw was the one with Emma freaking out and running off and he still had the hook. 

 

ETA - Never mind, saw the reply upthread.  I don't think I can take another episode of him staring at his hand and even with a frozen heart, I think it would be overkill if they took the hand away.  Emma clearly doesn't give a fig.  She didn't even notice he had a hand until MM pointed it out.  I think it should really be left up to him.

Edited October 20, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[Stuffy]

How is Belle a main character? I sure hope the others get paid more because she only has one or two lines per episode, if that.

Emilie's pilot wasn't picked up, so I guess going on the fandom success of Rumple and Belle's one interesting episode, they decided they needed to make her a series regular?  I don't know. Belle is so useless at this point.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Stuffy

[RadioGirl27]

NotBothered -- From scenes they filmed I think last week, there were photos of Hook heading into Granny's with the hat in his left hand. But there's no way Killian would agree to that after what happened. So if it's not the long con, the other potential option that we've tossed aeound already is the frozen heart.

Maybe those pics were from rehearsal. I don't think the hand is coming back anytime soon.

 

I really like the idea of a big con, with Emma, Hook, Elsa and the Charmings all working together to destroy the hat, but I don't trust the writers anymore.

Edited October 20, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[pezgirl7]

If Hook and Emma and/or Charming aren't running a con on Rumple, I will be seriously worried for Hook. Two weeks ago, Emma was saying how she trusts Hook, then we have Charming saying "I guess he has changed". How could any of them trust Hook again if he keeps two big things (the dagger and the hat) from the people who he now supposedly cares about? Even though Hook and Rumple have been spotted filming together, Hook seems to be filming with Emma as well, which is a good sign, I think. Are we sure that Colin was filming without the hook when he had the hat, or could he have just not been wearing the hook at the time the photos were taken?

[Artsda]

They left Belle with the baby? She's such an idiot, they couldn't find anyone else? The dwarves? Even Henry is a better babysitter.

[Serena]

I also think Hook doesn't get the hand back.

 

Also, 405 is yet another episode with no RH. They weren't lying when they said the Marian storyline wouldn't be about OQ! I used to think they looooooved OQ and thought it was the best thing ever, but I'm starting to feel their indifference to it similar to what they feel for Rumbelle.

[Souris]

Re: the press release

 

Does this mean that Lily is the runaway girl that Emma befriends and is not actually in Henry's storyline after all? Because there's not another girl listed, and I don't think Elizabeth Mitchell could pass as a girl, even with the fuzzy Cybill Shepherd Moonlighting filter! I’m gonna guess Lily says she’s an orphan, but she actually has a father.

 

Also interesting that Elsa’s parents are in this one, too.

 

I don’t think that Hook and Rumple working together in ep 9 necessarily means he hasn’t told Emma the truth by then. Even if he’s told her the truth, he’s still under the constraints of Rumple’s deal so has to play it out. They could be trying to find a way out of the deal, but he still has to do what Rumple asks in the meantime. That's what I'm hoping, because I don't want it to be the Zelena lips curse all over again. Once was more than enough, thank you very much.

 

I'm rather with RadioGirl that Hook will make some sort of sacrifice for Emma that will result in his "death" -- but either that will end up saving him a la "Frozen" or Emma's magic tears will do so.

[Mari]

Also, 405 is yet another episode with no RH. They weren't lying when they said the Marian storyline wouldn't be about OQ! I used to think they looooooved OQ and thought it was the best thing ever, but I'm starting to feel their indifference to it similar to what they feel for Rumbelle.

 

I think we're getting the OQ drama in 4B, since that's when we'll be getting his "background". (Is it wrong that I keep hoping that the actor playing Robin gets cast in some big, time-consuming project?  Because I do.)

 

Since it's mostly about Regina's relationships, 4A is apparently her reconnecting with Henry, while 4B will most likely be the big romantic reunion.  Blech.  And double blech.

 

Even Henry is a better babysitter.

At this point, Henry might trade Nealflake away if it meant Regina could rewrite her happy ending.  After all, he--in a fairly slimy and chilling move--decided to use the death of his father against his grandfather to make sure it happened. 

 

I've wondered if that would backfire;  Rumple could end up making enough of a connection with Henry that Regina (and the rest of Henry's bloated family tree) regret it.

 

I know Elizabeth Mitchell can't pass for teenager, but could she have shapeshifted into one?   They've played that card a few times.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Mari

[Artsda]

 

At this point, Henry might trade Nealflake away if it meant Regina could rewrite her happy ending.

I doubt it, but I'd still take that over Belle handing the baby over to Rumple to do dark things to him or trade him for magic powers.

[Souris]

It's probably more a result of the writers not really knowing what to do with Belle, so they stick her as a babysitter.

[Emma]

Hopefully it happens off screen and we don't actually have to watch Belle coo at baby do over.

[Amerilla]

Since when MM and David trust Belle so much to leave her with baby Neal?

 

They didn't bother to show us much of the Missing Year, but it was pretty heavily implied that Belle stayed with Snowing for all but the couple months she and Nealfire were looking for Rumpel. She's spent more time living with them than Emma has.  It's not like she's an unknown to them. 

 

That said, I'm sure it's simply the Contrivance Fairy foreshadowing the inevitable Golden Bun (because that's really the only plausible reason to marry Rumbelle off at this point, so he can make variations on the same mistakes he made the first time around, and keep making them until he gets them right in the series finale in a year or two).

[stealinghome]

How could any of them trust Hook again if he keeps two big things (the dagger and the hat) from the people who he now supposedly cares about?

Contrivance. Normal people with somewhat authentic emotional reactions wouldn't, but normal people with quasi-authentic emotional reactions also wouldn't come within a hundred miles of Regina or Rumpel, let alone call them "family," so....