Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[retrograde]

Interview with Elizabeth Lail http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/10/16/once-upon-a-time-elizabeth-lail-on-playing-anna-from-frozen-and-encountering-rumpelstiltskin-and-belle

I forgot she is supposed to have been friends with Belle in the past. (Why didn't Belle recognize her necklace? Did she not tell Bellle about her magical sister the queen?)

[KingOfHearts]

And how did Belle not recognize Anna's name? (Charming mentioned "Joan" in front of her too.)

 

I guess it didn't... ring a Belle.

Edited October 16, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

All I have to say is good going Belle. 

[kili]

And how did Belle not recognize Anna's name? (Charming mentioned "Joan" in front of her too.)

 

Maybe she has a different alias when she is with Belle?

 

What is the timeline? If Belle encounters Anna before agreeing to become Rumple's maid (*), why does she need Grumpy to tell her to go on an adventure (she already knows she can do it). If it is after the Mulon/Phillip adventure, how much time does she spend outside of Rumple's castle and before imprisonment.

 

(*) Is Belle's relationship with Anna one of the reasons that Rumple wants Belle as his maid. Any chance Belle's Mom is one of the three sisters that include the Snow Queen and Anna's mom?

[FurryFury]

And how did Belle not recognize Anna's name? (Charming mentioned "Joan" in front of her too.)

 

Probably the same way she never gave a damn about her husband refusing to help the town heroes (while supposedly aspiring to be one). In short, because she's Belle.

Edited October 16, 2014 by FurryFury

[HeimrArnadalr]

No denying she's a funny girl, that Belle.

 

From the Anna interview:

 

 

[Rumpelstiltskin] offers to help her and she trusts him.

 

Apparently she didn't learn from the whole Hans incident.

[Emma]

They haven't edited out Colin's remark about the cheeky lip lock.  It's still there.  I wonder if it's cheeky because he walks her home and her parents are waiting in the living room for her.  No privacy?

 

Adam or Eddy mentioned that Emma would figure out this season that she needs her own place and they'd love to see that happen too.

 

I'd love to see some moments like you mention above. Anything that would give us more taco scenes.

[Serena]

LMAO, I just imagined them stumbling into the dark living room while making out, and then Snow turns on the light and she and Charming are on the couch and Emma is like "SMH, gotta get my own place"

Edited October 16, 2014 by Serena

[Shanna Marie]

Why do you need two hands specifically for Italian food? Seems like one of the easier cuisines to eat one-handed.

It depends. Lasagna and ziti would be fine. Spaghetti, linguini or fettuccine could be a disaster one-handed. In fact, long pasta with a red sauce is generally not advised for a first date or business meal, even with two good hands. Although I like the idea of a Lady and the Tramp homage, I might be a little grossed out by the idea of that scene being played out by humans, complete with spaghetti slurping. (And, you know, Emma and Hook are kind of a fun parallel to Lady and the Tramp.)

 

Do they even have pasta in Hook's world? I can imagine him looking at a plate of spaghetti and saying, "What is this, and how the hell am I supposed to eat it?" Then again, Geppetto has an "Italian" accent, so maybe they do have a Not!Italy that Hook's visited.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Do they even have pasta in Hook's world? I can imagine him looking at a plate of spaghetti and saying, "What is this, and how the hell am I supposed to eat it?" Then again, Geppetto has an "Italian" accent, so maybe they do have a Not!Italy that Hook's visited.

 

I think I heard Leroy refer to Marco as a Tuscan woodcutter when he and Granny were haranguing Snow at the power plant.  Or maybe I heard wrong.  How does Tuscany fit into the Enchanted Forest I wonder. 

[KAOS Agent]

 

How does Tuscany fit into the Enchanted Forest I wonder.

 

It's right next to the Champagne region of Not!France.

[Shanna Marie]

Marco's Storybrooke identity may be Tuscan. That doesn't mean that Geppetto is Tuscan in the Enchanted Forest. They probably have some counterpart, though, like Arendelle=Norway.

 

I never figured out how Geppetto had an accent while no one else around him did, but then they haven't even tried having any consistency with accents in a way that relates to worldbuilding on this show. An accent doesn't seem to indicate anything. It seems to be a personal trait rather than having something to do with region or heritage.

[Rumsy4]

Although I like the idea of a Lady and the Tramp homage, I might be a little grossed out by the idea of that scene being played out by humans, complete with spaghetti slurping. (And, you know, Emma and Hook are kind of a fun parallel to Lady and the Tramp.)

As they cast a spaghetti lady and man, I think they will get to be Lady and the Tramp, not Hook and Emma. I guess they, like Gus Gus, are human in Storybrooke. :-p

Edited October 17, 2014 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

But they have rum and ale in the EF, why wouldn't they have champagne?  Maybe DQ imported all of that over there since she might be able to have a door between worlds.

[Shanna Marie]

As they cast a spaghetti lady and man, I think they will get to be Lady and the Tramp, not Hook and Emma.

Oh, I don't expect the spaghetti slurping to happen with Hook and Emma (thank God!), but it was a nifty little parallel that occurred to me, particularly with him in the black leather and her in the pretty pink date dress. Though I don't actually think he truly qualifies as "Tramp," since he has rather courtly manners and can play the gentleman quite well, when he's so inclined. He is a former naval officer who knows how to behave at a royal ball well enough to pass as a prince, which probably disqualifies him as a "tramp."

 

(And now I'm trying to remember if we had Lady and the Tramp on VHS. I may raid my parents' collection, since they no longer have a player and I do, and we had a lot of Disney classics.)

[daxx]

As they cast a spaghetti lady and man, I think they will get to be Lady and the Tramp, not Hook and Emma. I guess they, like Gus Gus, are human in Storybrooke. :-p

Maybe the part where tramp gave Lady his last meatball instead of the slurping scene.

[retrograde]

TVLine:

Rebecca Wisocky — who on Devious Maids steals scenes as acid-tongued lady of leisure Evelyn Powell — is poised to cheat people out of a li’l something on ABC’s Once Upon a Time.

TVLine has learned that Wisocky will appear in this season’s 11th episode as Madam Faustina, a charlatan who, in flashbacks, pretends to commune with spirits in order to swindle her customers by telling them made-up fortunes. Said “seer” exhibits a gentle, compassionate manner, but that is only an act designed to conceal her tough, unscrupulous nature from her marks.

 

Word has it that Elizabeth Mitchell’s Snow Queen will cross paths with Faustina — buyer (or seller?) beware!

So the Snow Queen is still around in episode 11? Interesting...

Edited October 17, 2014 by retrograde

[stealinghome]

That will be the mid-season finale, too. Interesting.

[KingOfHearts]

"Faustina" means lucky or fortunate. Makes sense for a fortune teller. Seems kind of random for this show.

Edited October 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Amerilla]

He is a former naval officer who knows how to behave at a royal ball well enough to pass as a prince, which probably disqualifies him as a "tramp."

Tramps aren't like dwarves, hatched from eggs fully-formed. Most are just people who have fallen on hard times and hit the road as a result. I'm sure there are plenty of vagrants who remember their old lives and could pass for "gentleman" after a shower and a change of clothes.

[Mari]

"Faustina" means lucky or fortunate. Makes sense for a fortune teller. Seems kind of random for this show.

"Faustina" could also be a reference to the Marlowe play about Doctor Faustus, who sold his soul to Lucifer for power/knowledge.

[retrograde]

Looks like they're filming in Stanley Park today.

 

Canadagraphs @canadagraphs  ·  45m 45 minutes ago
#OnceUponATime doing scenes that have combinations of Josh, Ginny, Lana, JMo, Colin, Jared, Lee and Georgina.

Some BTS shots. 

 

Josh Dallas/Charming in mountain climbing gear.

 

Lana, Jared, JMo, Georgina.

 

(Jesus, ABC, release a freaking sneak peek already. I'm dying here).

Edited October 17, 2014 by retrograde

[kili]

TV Guide has an interview with Scott Michael Foster (Kristoff).

 

Not much new, but he confirms that Rumple wants Anna to get the hat box. "Rumple has other plans, however, and wants to use Anna to obtain a magical box that the Sorcerer's apprentice is guarding." Some bits about working with the reindeer (Sven is played by Jack). And Hans's brothers may be back.

[stealinghome]

Damn, put Charming in faux mountain climbing gear more often!

[kili]

Damn, put Charming in faux mountain climbing gear more often!

 

Is that an ice axe he has or is it one of the dwarf axes? I bet he has to climb some huge ice waterfall.

[Shanna Marie]

Tramps aren't like dwarves, hatched from eggs fully-formed. Most are just people who have fallen on hard times and hit the road as a result. I'm sure there are plenty of vagrants who remember their old lives and could pass for "gentleman" after a shower and a change of clothes.

I was referring specifically to the Disney Tramp, who was a straggly mutt stray dog who'd never lived in a home with a family and therefore didn't have polite manners and didn't know how to behave in a home. That's what I meant by Hook not really being a "tramp," since he does know how to behave. That's what the conversation was about, the scene in Lady and the Tramp in which Tramp takes Lady, the spoiled purebred Cocker Spaniel, out on a "date," where they share a spaghetti dinner in the alley behind an Italian restaurant. It looks like the date between Emma and Hook is going to have some Easter eggs alluding to that movie. No aspersions to actual homeless people were implied or intended.

[Selina K]

Finally, a sneak peek!

 

Props to the board for calling the provenance of the hand and why it would adversely affect Hook.

Edited October 17, 2014 by selinak

[ShadowFacts]

Oooh, Gold channeling Walter White.  Look out, Killian, Hank didn't fare so well when he decided not to tread lightly.  It's very unwise to blackmail the Dark One. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

Finally, a sneak peek!

 

I freaking love that shot of Hook just sitting on Rumple's desk. Other than that, I still find the hand stuff unbelievably stupid. Is it really smart to call the Dark One a crocodile?

 

I always thought Emma liked the hook.

Edited October 17, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

Wait. Is Rumple actually kind of admitting Hook is a better person now? He did say the cunning, selfish pirate is the man Hook used to be. Maybe I'm reading too much in between the lines...

 

I love the line "blackmailing brings out the romantic in you." 

[Emma]

Hook should know better. Especially where the DO is concerned. I guess I'll have to chalk it up to love making us do stupid things.

[Rumsy4]

Hook's totally hoping for taco time after the date. But yeah--incredibly stupid. And it looks like he loses his hand by episode end. But maybe the effects linger?

[ShadowFacts]

It's supremely stupid since there is no way Hook can prove the dagger thing.  Gold can always switcheroo.  And why would Hook state a reason at all, about a romantic plan, when he perfectly well knows that Gold thinks he "stole" Milah? 

[NotBothered]

This does look like confirmation that the hand is gone by the end of episode.   And I bet we don't even get forearms out of it.  What a waste.  Although I guess since it goes back in the jar in remains in their back pocket.

 

I kind of like that Rumple gets Hook by being honest.  Hook is convinced that Rumple is being devious and would never tell him the truth about consequences.  So an admission of bad consequences = no problems with the return of the hand. 

[scenicbyway]

I really like these two playing off each other.  They've got the longest history on the show, it's nice to see the banter between them.  I'm not sure why Rumple is complying with Hook's wishes, all he has to do is erase either Hook or Belle's memories and he gets away with the dagger ruse.

[RadioGirl27]

I still hate this hand thing, but if it's going to give us scenes like this, I'm going to be a happy girl.

 

I think Rumple is letting Hook do this because he has plans for him. We know that they seem to be working together in later episodes in something related to the hat.

Edited October 17, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[retrograde]

Even though it seems Rumple and Hook end up working together, I hope their relationship remains this frosty, because it's very entertaining.

[Mari]

I'm not sure why Rumple is complying with Hook's wishes, all he has to do is erase either Hook or Belle's memories and he gets away with the dagger ruse.

It could come up later.  If they remember that Rumple is amazing at manipulating people and events, having done Hook a favor (however non favory it actually turned out to be) it could come in handy later. 

 

AT the same time, setting Hook up with a hand that Rumple knows is going to cause problems for Hook later could easily just be like hitting that first Domino in a row.  There's no real point to it, but the resulting chaos is briefly entertaining.

 

ETA:

Umm.  Sorry.  This time the hand pun was unintended.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Mari

[Curio]

I'm not sure why Rumple is complying with Hook's wishes, all he has to do is erase either Hook or Belle's memories and he gets away with the dagger ruse.

 

Rumple is a sadistic bastard, though. He probably could erase Hook's memories, but once Hook says he wants his hand back for his date with Emma, Rumple would rather see Hook suffer the consequences of the hand instead of easily wiping his memories. It's like pulling the wings off a bug instead of smushing it.

[Jean]

I don't think Rumple's being honest. Sounds like a mind game. He tells Hook that so it'll always be in the back of his mind, sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. As for not killing Hook, I'm guessing it's because he has a use for Hook, like he did for Anna.

 

There was that crack in the last episode when Emma tells Elsa that she thinks Elsa/Anna are pawns in some game? Probably applies to Emma and Hook too. I hope it's a battle of wits between Rumple and the DQ.

[retrograde]

I'm not sure why Rumple is complying with Hook's wishes, all he has to do is erase either Hook or Belle's memories and he gets away with the dagger ruse.

I'm pretty sure he's setting Hook up. Rumple will switch the daggers back, then Hook will be begging him to detach the hand and ultimately end up in his debt.

[Shanna Marie]

I still quibble over the "the hand belongs to the man you used to be" issue because Hook was at his worst after he lost the hand. When he lost the hand, he was deeply in love and willing to die for his love, which couldn't have been too terribly selfish. That hand also belonged to the nerdy Lt. Jones. So I hope that any bad that happens is a trick by Rumple to make Hook think that's what's going on.

[YaddaYadda]

As idiotic as Hook is being, I love the sneak peek because those two are awesome together.  Seems like nothing will change Hook's good mood until the hand of eviiil starts acting out.

[Curio]

I'm pretty sure he's setting Hook up. Rumple will switch the daggers back, then Hook will be begging him to detach the hand and ultimately end up in his debt.

 

I feel like Hook is the type to just chop it off himself instead of begging Rumple to detach it. I guess that scene at the docks could be Hook attempting to chop it off, but Rumple has made it impossible to remove without magic, so Hook is forced to go to Rumple as a last resort. But even then, why not just get Emma to remove it with her magic? (Unless it can only be removed by Rumple's magic.)

 

I still quibble over the "the hand belongs to the man you used to be" issue because Hook was at his worst after he lost the hand. When he lost the hand, he was deeply in love and willing to die for his love, which couldn't have been too terribly selfish.

Hook was also a bully at that time. He kicked Rumple in the street and made fun of his appearance. So even though he was in love with Milah, he could also be a drunken ass at times.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Curio

[retrograde]

And also a pirate. He was presumably stealing from people at the time also.

My recollection is that they filmed a night scene where Hook tries to cut it off, but fails for whatever reason. Then the next morning Rumple wakes him up to gloat, and he still has the hand.

[YaddaYadda]

Hook's reputation precedes him and he has to maintain it whether he was in love or not.  His pirating might have started out of revenge against the kingdom he felt wronged him, but I'm sure it didn't just stay that way.  He goes to Neverland and we have no clue what he does for Pan since the show pretty much glossed over that period.

 

My recollection is that they filmed a night scene where Hook tries to cut it off, but fails for whatever reason. Then the next morning Rumple wakes him up to gloat, and he still has the hand.

 

There's a scene I think on youtube where he is sleeping on a bench with his jacket on him and Rumple shows up and then there's the whole broom thing that happens. 

 

I'm sure Rumple is enjoying this.  And it also looks like Hook breaks into the show of horrors.  The sign has "open" turned inside. 

[HoodlumSheep]

I still quibble over the "the hand belongs to the man you used to be" issue because Hook was at his worst after he lost the hand. When he lost the hand, he was deeply in love and willing to die for his love, which couldn't have been too terribly selfish. That hand also belonged to the nerdy Lt. Jones. So I hope that any bad that happens is a trick by Rumple to make Hook think that's what's going on.

He was still a frat boy bully when he lost he hand though. So there could be some residual piratey-ness remaining. And I guess one could argue that he was at his worst with the hook, and yet he turned good and is sort of at his best currently (at least the best he's been in years) while having his hook. Maybe the good and bad mojo canceled out? I Don't know.

I kind of like That Rumple is warning hook and sees that the guy has made progress. I doubt that he finds Hook's blackmail a serious threat. At this point I think he's just playing with him. Rumple's probably looking forward to being entertained.

Oh Killy, it's hard to be mad at your stupidity. This whole situation is making everybody facepalm. Love sure can blind people. At this point you're just a big piratey ball of fluff wrapped in a bow of insecurities. An identity crisis is pretty much around the corner.

If there's one good thing that comes out of this, it's that we get more awesome scenes with Bobby and Colin. Also, it's fun to see Killy's more piratey side. (I'm one of those people who sometimes, just sometimes, misses the old days of Team Cora/Hook.)

[Amerilla]

Wait. Is Rumple actually kind of admitting Hook is a better person now? He did say the cunning, selfish pirate is the man Hook used to be. Maybe I'm reading too much in between the lines...

Eh. Rumpel's still trying to convince himself he's a better person now, so at best, he's being charitable about what constitutes being a changed person. More likely, he knows Hook has an ego the size of the Jolly Roger and is playing on it so he can have a little fun punishing him.

As idiotic as Hook is being, I love the sneak peek because those two are awesome together.

They're fine in the scene, I just can't get beyond the stupidity of the premise. "Hey, guy whose former wife I enticed away from your fragile marriage and whose current wife I shot in the back and memory-wiped in a direct attempt at payback for your killing said former wife - gimme back my hand so I can get it on with this new lady (who happens to be the former love of your now-dead son with said said former wife), or I'll tell said new wife that you're exactly the same person she's always known you've been, as if you couldn't come up with twenty different ways to correct the situation to your advantage before I had a chance to blink."

Storytelling genius at it's best. :-)

EtA: I think this is where the writing team often falters - they seem to set things like this as fun twists in the story, but the only way it can work is if characters (in this case, primarily Hook) act in out of character ways to make it happen. It ends up watering down the backstory, because Hook going to Rumple for what amounts to help with his romantic life, even if he's doing it under the premise that he had the advantage, makes his entire S2 revenge quest look incredibly shallow. Even if he's moving on with Emma, there's no reason his feelings about Milah or Rumple should change.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Amerilla

[Leia1979]

I don't think Rumple's being honest. Sounds like a mind game. He tells Hook that so it'll always be in the back of his mind, sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. As for not killing Hook, I'm guessing it's because he has a use for Hook, like he did for Anna.

 

There was that crack in the last episode when Emma tells Elsa that she thinks Elsa/Anna are pawns in some game? Probably applies to Emma and Hook too. I hope it's a battle of wits between Rumple and the DQ.

 

I like this idea, especially because I also believe that while he wasn't a 100% stand-up guy at the time he lost the hand, he still got worse before he got better.

 

I like this subplot a lot, I just wish Hook's reason for wanting the hand back in the first place didn't sound so lame (to me).

Edited October 17, 2014 by Leia1979

[Serena]

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