Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Camera One]

5 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I was really hoping the curse would have been broken and Gothel would have died in 7x19. 

That poor Tree Nymph!  

[Free]

24 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I was really hoping the curse would have been broken and Gothel would have died in 7x19. That would have given the finale shenanigans an extra episode to be fleshed out in. It seems it's going to be shoved into the last two hours. Greaaaat.

We're going to get an entire episode of Henry learning to believe by talking to his younger self, when the Jacinda kiss could have saved us all the trouble.

She could possibly die earlier some time before the finale considering the abrupt change in the last few episodes.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I was really hoping the curse would have been broken and Gothel would have died in 7x19. That would have given the finale shenanigans an extra episode to be fleshed out in. It seems it's going to be shoved into the last two hours. Greaaaat.

What's worse is that unlike in previous seasons, we're not getting a two-hour movie as the finale this time  The finale is actually going to be shown in two parts, with Part 1 on May 11 and Part 2 on May 18.  So the agony is going to be drawn out for an extra week.

[PixiePaws1]

Jen has confirmed Baby Hope;

https://greenleaf777.tumblr.com/image/173396997906

[KingOfHearts]

10 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Jen has confirmed Baby Hope;

https://greenleaf777.tumblr.com/image/173396997906

I love her comment, "What are they going to do, fire me?!" That's been Robert Carlyle's motto for several seasons now, LOL.

[rogvortex58]

Woohoo! sounds great.

proof that CS finally banged

Edited April 29, 2018 by rogvortex58

[KingOfHearts]

If Hope is 9-10 years old in the finale, it can't be 2017 Storybrooke. So what year does Hyperion Heights take place in? 2023? 

Edited May 2, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

On 4/29/2018 at 5:47 AM, rogvortex58 said:

proof that CS finally banged

Not if you want to be nitpicky. There are scientific alternatives available. ?

[PixiePaws1]

Jen did say:

'My baby's name is, Hope, and she's adorable."

I am taking her literally..and thinking Hope is in fact a baby.

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

So what year does Hyperion Heights take place in? 2023? 

Thousands of years later?

[Rumsy4]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

If Hope is 9-10 years old in the finale, it can't be 2017 Storybrooke.

That's Snowflake, not Hope. Even then, it makes little sense, but whatever...

[Shanna Marie]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

If Hope is 9-10 years old in the finale, it can't be 2017 Storybrooke. So what year does Hyperion Heights take place in? 2023? 

Hope is supposedly a baby in the finale. It's Snowflake who's 9-10. And that can't be in 2017-18, so I don't know when that part of the finale is supposed to be taking place. The thing that gets me is that the preview made it look like adult Henry is calling teen Henry when teen Henry is wearing his graduation gown. For one thing, that puts the present in Hyperion Heights around May, so we lost a lot of time between the Halloween episode that aired around Halloween and now, even though it doesn't seem like there were any big gaps between episodes.

But also, Henry was 10 and in fourth grade (Mary Margaret was his teacher, and she referred to a classroom of fourth graders) in the 2011-2012 school year. So that puts him in fifth grade for 2012-2013, 6th grade for 2013-2014, 7th grade for 2014-2015, 8th grade for 2015-2016, 9th grade for 2016-2017, and 10th grade for 2017-2018. There's no way he skipped a year, given how much school he missed. Even if you figure they were off a year and he should have been in fifth grade in the first season, he still wouldn't be graduating in 2018, so if Hyperion Heights is in the present, Henry shouldn't be wearing a graduation gown in 2018 when his adult self calls him. And at that time, Snowflake would be about 3-4, with Robyn maybe six months younger. Hope isn't on the horizon (both literally and, on this show, metaphorically).

[Camera One]

I just watched the promo.  I don't understand why Henry would suddenly lose his belief.  I thought the thing Dr. Facilier did with him was just to draw the poison out of him so he wouldn't die. 

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

That's Snowflake, not Hope. Even then, it makes little sense, but whatever...

Meant to say Snowflake, not Hope. It still can't be 2017.

[Camera One]

What year was it supposed to be in the Season 6 finale?

[KAOS Agent]

Based on Henry's age in the S6 finale, it should be roughly 2015. Based on Snowflake's age, it would have been closer to 2013. Who knows? I doubt the writers know either.

[Rumsy4]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

I just watched the promo.  I don't understand why Henry would suddenly lose his belief. 

I don't either, except for drama. And to get him to call himself on the phone. lol The in-story explanation is bound to be unconvincing. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

He's graduating from high school, and still wearing the same scarf as he did when he was 10.

[Mitch]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

He's graduating from high school, and still wearing the same scarf as he did when he was 10.

Since S2 they have been writing these characters as if they were indeed cartoons so it makes sense, ala Fred Flinstone or or course Mickey Mouse he would wear the same clothes...

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

What year was it supposed to be in the Season 6 finale?

I think all the characters are moving at different rates. But my approximation of the timeline is that season one took place in more or less real time, going from October 2011 to maybe summer of 2012. 2A seems to have taken only a week or so (based on the number of nights Team Princess spent in the Enchanted Forest). 2B might have taken a bit longer, possibly covering a month or so. 3A took less than a week. Let's say that at the end of 3A it's roughly a year since the start of the series, so fall 2012. Then there's the Missing Year, so it's fall 2013 and Henry is 12, which fits. 3B covers about a week, with Snowflake born during this time. They said on screen that 4A covered 2 weeks. There was a 6-week gap before 4B, then it seems like another month or so happened during that season. So we're now in late 2013/early 2014. 5A covered about two months (six weeks in Camelot, 2 weeks back in Storybrooke), and Robyn was born during this time (so she and Snowflake might have different birth years, but are less than six months apart). 5B seems to have covered another two months. That puts season 6 in mid-2014, estimating generously. It's hard to say how long that season covered, but my guess is that the end of season six is in late 2014, early 2015 at the very latest, though that doesn't fit Snowflake's apparent age, as he's only moved from being an infant to being a baby who can hold his body upright. If we're going by Snowflake's age, the end of season six might be summer 2014, except that there's snow right before the wedding. So maybe there was less time in the Underworld and season 6 took less time than I'm estimating, so the end of season 6 is spring 2014, so we get snow and Snowflake is still a baby. But then Henry would be turning 13 later that year, not 14 as the show stated. I can maybe get Henry to be 13 at the end of the show, but he can't be 14 while Snowflake is a baby rather than a toddler.

And didn't one of the Powers that Be state that Henry's departure from Storybrooke took place in the future after someone commented that if it happened in our present, he would be dropping out of high school? They said that it was several years from now, which quashed the theory that he left in the present, then went to a world where time moved faster, and that was how he was an adult in Hyperion Heights in the present only months after he left home. But now they have him graduating from high school in the present when he really should just be finishing 10th grade, unless Hyperion Heights Henry is capable of making phone calls to the future.

[KingOfHearts]

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

He's graduating from high school, and still wearing the same scarf as he did when he was 10.

A&E actually mandated this. They said they wanted to keep Henry the same 10 year old kid from the first season. It's yet another method of preventing signs of character growth that complements Killian's hook.

[CCTC]

19 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

A&E actually mandated this. They said they wanted to keep Henry the same 10 year old kid from the first season.

Which might be part of the reason he and Jacinda do not generate a lot of romantic heat.  Henry is still kid of being written and played like that.   It almost has some Big elements to it with a boy trapped in a man's body, and I know people were a little weirded out when the Tom Hanks character had an adult encounter with Elizabeth Perkins.

[Shanna Marie]

12 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Which might be part of the reason he and Jacinda do not generate a lot of romantic heat.  Henry is still kid of being written and played like that.   It almost has some Big elements to it with a boy trapped in a man's body, and I know people were a little weirded out when the Tom Hanks character had an adult encounter with Elizabeth Perkins.

I guess they're sort of damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they really tie adult Henry to the kid we only just saw him as, then it's hard to generate any heat in a romantic relationship without it getting a bit icky. If they don't tie him to the kid version, then we don't care and have no connection to him.

I do think better writing might have made it work, but they didn't bother developing adult Henry as any kind of character. He's just "Henry, but so much older that he's played by a different actor." And they didn't bother developing the relationship at all.

[Rumsy4]

Adam explains their meticulous maintenance of timelines on twitter. He must have deleted the tweets as usual, but not before they were screencapped. 

[Camera One]

"Meticulous" is pretty much the opposite of the word I'd use.  He's still using the "wait 'til the finale" excuse, I see.  I seriously doubt the finale will address any of the other egregious timeline mess-ups, such as how Alice managed to meet Jacinda's mother when she was conceived after Tremaine trapped Gothel in the tower.

[KAOS Agent]

Quote

He's graduating from high school, and still wearing the same scarf as he did when he was 10.

Jared was apparently asked at a convention what he'd like to take from the Once set and he said the pea coat/scarf so that he could burn it. 

As for Adam's meticulous timeline nonsense, it's pretty obvious they have zero understanding of how many ridiculous inconsistencies they have built into their story, sometimes even within the same episode. I'm pretty sure he said they'd explain how the time thing worked in the first couple of episodes of S7 and that never happened. He'd be better off not saying anything rather than lying his ass off.

[Free]

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

"Meticulous" is pretty much the opposite of the word I'd use.  He's still using the "wait 'til the finale" excuse, I see.  I seriously doubt the finale will address any of the other egregious timeline mess-ups, such as how Alice managed to meet Jacinda's mother when she was conceived after Tremaine trapped Gothel in the tower.

The timeline itself has gotten even more confusing since the last few times he's used that excuse.

[Mabinogia]

17 hours ago, CCTC said:

18 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

A&E actually mandated this. They said they wanted to keep Henry the same 10 year old kid from the first season.

Which might be part of the reason he and Jacinda do not generate a lot of romantic heat.  Henry is still kid of being written and played like that.   It almost has some Big elements to it with a boy trapped in a man's body, and I know people were a little weirded out when the Tom Hanks character had an adult encounter with Elizabeth Perkins.

That explains soooo freaking much. Henry does come across as a man child. Guess it was actually on purpose. Odd choice. Did they think we wouldn't realize it was the same Henry if they let him act like an actual adult?

Hmm, maybe they should have gone with a "Big" storyline, Henry could have been affected by a curse that gave him an  adult body but he is still a 10 year old boy on the inside. Jacinda has romantic interest in him but he's weirded out by it all, and the fact he's now the same age as his mom, etc.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Mabinogia

[Mitch]

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That explains soooo freaking much. Henry does come across as a man child. Guess it was actually on purpose. Odd choice. Did they think we wouldn't realize it was the same Henry if they let him act like an actual adult?

Hmm, maybe they should have gone with a "Big" storyline, Henry could have been affected by a curse that gave him an  adult body but he is still a 10 year old boy on the inside. Jacinda has romantic interest in him but he's weirded out by it all, and the fact he's now the same age as his mom, etc.

That would be interesting...and then for the finale they could have turned him back AND we wouldn't be left with the plot holes of Regina and Zelena somehow not aging.

I dont think it is actually intentional that they are writing Adult Henry like kid Henry..I think they just don't have the ability to write a grown up version of Heny.."Henry is the TWUEST believer and he likes 80s mixed tapes....and uh, that's all we got..." any different then the kid version. They are that untalented. 

[KingOfHearts]

8 minutes ago, Mitch said:

I dont think it is actually intentional that they are writing Adult Henry like kid Henry..I think they just don't have the ability to write a grown up version of Heny.."Henry is the TWUEST believer and he likes 80s mixed tapes....and uh, that's all we got..." any different then the kid version. They are that untalented. 

To write a grown up Henry, they would have to essentially create a new character. They'd had to spend time developing him and giving him extra dimensions. We never saw a younger Jacinda, yet she's just as bland if not worse.

[Mitch]

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

EW Scoop on Series Finale

Okay, as much as I make fun of this show, especially these last two crappy seasons...I love the picture of everyone standing around that goofy war table again!!! Goodwin looks like she has lost the weight and is looking good too!

[Shanna Marie]

53 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

We never saw a younger Jacinda, yet she's just as bland if not worse.

We did see a teen Jacinda. She stood in the background, I think without any lines, and then fell through the ice. Such a complex character!

Incidentally, I was cracking up while reading that EW article when they were patting themselves on the back about what a complex character they created in Regina because she was "flawed." But you only get credit for writing a flawed character if the story and characters are allowed to recognize the flaws. When you write a character who is deeply flawed but who sees herself as a blameless victim, and no one is allowed to criticize her, and she's hailed as a great hero, that doesn't count as a flawed, complex character.

They said her happy ending will come in the same place where the series opened, so yep, Regina's going to be officially crowned queen in the throne room at the end.

And it doesn't look like the Charmings have aged at all in all this time, either. Zelena's infant is grown to adulthood, Henry is an adult with a tween daughter, and none of the adults have aged a moment.

[Free]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

To write a grown up Henry, they would have to essentially create a new character. They'd had to spend time developing him and giving him extra dimensions. We never saw a younger Jacinda, yet she's just as bland if not worse.

Which explains why the writing and the choices for adult Henry are awkward and it was already heading that way with Henry and the Author stuff.

[Rumsy4]

I've been dying to talk about this article all day! haha One of the few remaining opportunities to make fun of A&E's Regina permaboner while the Show's still airing.

Quote

I think [Regina]’s an inspiration to many.

Yes. She's a great inspiration on how whining the loudest will get you the most sympathy. It's true to real life in that way.

Quote

 the show’s fortitude also stemmed from its ability to reinvent itself from season to season, sometimes multiple times within.

If retreading the same old same old a hundred different times is reinvention.

Quote

 “It makes me sad that something so positive on television is being taken off the air when we need it most,” says Parrilla. “It breaks my heart.”

I have no words.

Quote

“The pitch for the whole show was ‘What would a world look like in which the Evil Queen got her happy ending?’ 

Duh.

Quote

“I know everyone’s been waiting for Regina’s happy ending and no one really could define what that is,

I haven't been waiting for it. And the reason no one could define it is because Regina always covets what she doesn't have.

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

They said her happy ending will come in the same place where the series opened, so yep, Regina's going to be officially crowned queen in the throne room at the end.

I agree. Insert massive eye roll.

Quote

O’Donoghue, meanwhile, offers that Hook’s fate is intrinsically tied to Rumple’s. “I remember thinking [the ending] was just such an amazing way for this relationship that Bobby and I have invested in over six seasons,” O’Donoghue says. “It’s been so integral to both of our characters, so I thought it was a really beautiful moment and very, very important to me for that to be the happy ending for Hook.”

Hmm...Does this mean WHook will take on the Guardian role? Poor WHook. I don't want him to live forever after Alice moves on. Also, does it involve rescuing Milah from the Lost Souls river? If not, it will not be truly meaningful for me.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Rumsy4

[PixiePaws1]

I did wonder if the call back to s1 was EQ getting married in the same grand hall that Snowing did.....because A&E aren't satisfied until Regina gets everything the Charmings have...BUT would Gosh or JMo have bothered to come back if it involved more shitting on their characters even more than they already were???

Edited May 4, 2018 by PixiePaws1

[superloislane]

9 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

BUT would Gosh or JMo have bothered to come back if it involved more shitting on their characters even more than they already were???

Maybe that's why JMo only came back for 2 minutes? And Ginny and Josh have sat through a lot of shitting on their characters so I'm not sure they even care

[KingOfHearts]

42 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I haven't been waiting for it. And the reason no one could define it is because Regina always covets what she doesn't have.

Her happy ending changes every arc or so. One day it's revenge on Snow, then it's Henry, then Robin, then being "Queen of Storybrooke". Today's model is making Facilier's tacos. I'm crossing my fingers that Facilier dies or gets defeated. That seems to be the case since he's been missing from all the finale promo pictures. I really don't want Regina to end up with him.

Regina goes through motivations like Yzma goes through evil sidekicks.

Edited May 4, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[rogvortex58]

At this point, I couldn’t care less what Regina’s happy ending is. I just want her to have it far away from everyone else in Storybrooke. Especially Emma, Killian and Hope.

And the same goes for the crocodile. I’ll be happier when he’s no longer around to manipulate Alice or her father.

Edited May 4, 2018 by rogvortex58

[Camera One]

Quote

“We saved Regina’s happy ending for the end,” says Kitsis.

Was there any doubt?

Quote

“Her journey has really been watching somebody confront the demons within and emerge on the other side a better person.”

Too bad all her victims couldn't emerge on the other side.

Quote

“I know everyone’s been waiting for Regina’s happy ending and no one really could define what that is, and no one really knew what it was going to look like, and nor did I,” Parrilla says. 

That's great show planning right there.

Quote

But audiences waned without the original cast, seemingly losing hope at the worst possible time. 

LOL.  Sure, go ahead and believe that people quit because they were "losing hope".  

[rogvortex58]

Maybe it’s a wedding. Regina is marrying herself.

[Camera One]

Even more ridiculous quotes, this time from the EW interview:

Quote

Here, Snow White (Ginnifer Goodwin) gives a rousing speech about hope as it seems all but lost; a great evil threatens to steal their happy endings once and for all. “In the series finale, there’s a lot that comes full-circle,” says executive producer Edward Kitsis of this familiar-feeling scene

Another meaningless hope speech.  Let me guess, "'We don't know if we're going to win.  We don't have a plan.  But we do have HOPE and that's what's most important.  Now, thank goodness we brought over Granny's to the Enchanted Forest so we can go there and prepare to die."

I guess self-plagiarizing is now called "coming full circle"?  

Quote

But the OUAT bosses stress that not everything is wrapped up in a neat little bow in the finale. 

Neat little bow?  We'd be lucky if we get pieces that are recognizable as a ribbon.  Imagine a wrapped box after rabid dogs have chewed through it.

[PixiePaws1]

11 minutes ago, Camera One said:

  Imagine a wrapped box after rabid dogs have chewed through it.

You summed up perfectly how I felt after Emma went to commiserate with the tyrannical mass murdering rapist immediately after shoving Killian's heart back in..despite the build up and 'can't lose you too' stress all thru 4a..!!

[Free]

3 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

I did wonder if the call back to s1 was EQ getting married in the same grand hall that Snowing did.....because A&E aren't satisfied until Regina gets everything the Charmings have...BUT would Gosh or JMo have bothered to come back if it involved more shitting on their characters even more than they already were???

Or an easy paycheck for a show on its way out with limited screen time.

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

Was there any doubt?

Too bad all her victims couldn't emerge on the other side.

That's great show planning right there.

LOL.  Sure, go ahead and believe that people quit because they were "losing hope".  

The fact that it's being focused on her happy ending says it all.

[Shanna Marie]

6 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

Flaws for a character would be limitations, imperfections, problems, phobias, or a deficiency present. Mass murdering is not a flaw. Rape is not a flaw. Those are crimes. 

Regina's flaws would be a complete lack of empathy for others and an inability to take responsibility for her own choices and actions. But the show never acknowledged that she had those flaws. Writing a "flawed" character would have required something like Snow saying, "Oh, cry me a river, Regina. What's happening to you now is no worse than when you dragged up a fake wife for David to keep us apart," rather than "oh, adultery isn't so bad."

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

And the reason no one could define it is because Regina always covets what she doesn't have.

That's the problem. At the end of season six, she was mayor of the town, with "Queen" stenciled on the door and the people she used to torment bowing to her, she was living in a mansion, the son she used to emotionally abuse was deeply bonded with her, she'd reconciled with her sister, and her former enemies saw her as part of their family. The only thing she was missing was romantic love. What else can they give her to give her a happy ending? She and her son ditched the rest of his entire family, so she has him all to herself. She seems to be the only grandparent her granddaughter knows. Her daughter-in-law is best buds with her. Her niece stayed with her rather than going with her mother. I guess she could get her mansion back, or maybe get her own castle. Again, she's just missing romantic love, and if they're saying she didn't get a happy ending without being in a romantic relationship, that's an interesting message.

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

“I remember thinking [the ending] was just such an amazing way for this relationship that Bobby and I have invested in over six seasons,” O’Donoghue says. “It’s been so integral to both of our characters, so I thought it was a really beautiful moment and very, very important to me for that to be the happy ending for Hook.”

About the only way I could see any kind of happy ending that's integral to both Hook and Rumple is if Rumple dies sacrificing himself for both Alice and baby Hope. Having a really beautiful moment between those characters might be possible at a stretch with our Rumple and WHook, since they weren't actually the ones going at each other and there's less water under that bridge. With Hook Prime and Rumple Prime, what with the Milah murder, Hook's hand being cut off, Rumple nearly beating Hook to death, the heart stealing and torture, hijacking the Darkness that Hook died to end, and Milah in the River of Souls, it's hard to imagine them ending on good terms at all.

But now I am kind of worried that WHook will sacrifice himself and take on the role as Guardian so Rumple can be with Belle, which is getting into table-flipping time. However, if Alice is part wood nymph, does that mean she was going to live forever (or a really long time) anyway? Which would make Rumple giving up turning the power over to her kind of silly, but it would mean that Guardian Whook wouldn't be alone. Weaver did tell Rogers he was a survivor.

[Mrs. de Winter]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

“I know everyone’s been waiting for Regina’s happy ending and no one really could define what that is, and no one really knew what it was going to look like, and nor did I,” Parrilla says. 

I would suggest the ratings for this season say otherwise, but sure whatever, LP.   

I'll be here for Regina's happiness when the characters she murdered and tortured all get their happy endings back.  Until then, FU show on this idea that a show about hope is about Regina getting her happiness without ever taking a whit of real responsibility for the damage her selfish, self-centered, bullshit caused.    

As someone who was thinking of coming back to see the characters I actually cared about during the shows better days, the fact that the final episodes will be all about Regina and her "happiness" have pretty much convinced me to take a hard pass and just catch the scenes with characters I like via clips.   And possibly only if those clips do NOT include Regina since I, for one, do not care about her finding her happiness at all.  

[Camera One]

The final scene in the promo with Rumple vs. Wish Rumple is practically the same as Regina vs. The Evil Queen from last year.  "The one enemy I can never defeat is... myself." 

LOL at Jacinda and Lucy trapped in a snowglobe for the finale.

[rogvortex58]

Wow. This is a whole different level of BS that even I didn’t expect.

After years of watching the dark one make the lives of all the real heroes on this show hell.  Making so many messes that they always had to clean up, and yet still having to tolerate him. Coming to the decision to turn on his mother at the last minute, just because she didn’t give him what she’d promised. Now he’s gonna get to go out like a hero after doing jack to help anyone this whole season? I would say death is too good for him. But the sooner he’s out of their lives the better.

By all means, A&E, give him his eternal afterlife with Belle. I don’t care. As long as the living are finally free of him and the darkness forever, I’ll still get the ending I want for the characters I love. Doesn’t mean I have to like how it happens though.

And any resolution they give between him and Nook is completely meaningless. Because their history just doesn’t compare to the real Killian’s.

Edited May 5, 2018 by rogvortex58

[daxx]

17 hours ago, rogvortex58 said:

Maybe it’s a wedding. Regina is marrying herself.

Someone who supposedly knows said it’s a coronation for Regina. Not sure which realm, but blah to that anyway.

[Camera One]

So next week, Wish Henry needs to learn to love Regina as a mother.  

[Free]

25 minutes ago, daxx said:

Someone who supposedly knows said it’s a coronation for Regina. Not sure which realm, but blah to that anyway.

Lana in the interviews has been going on and on about Regina's happy ending and this is Adam and Eddy, so it unfortunately fits if it's true, especially coming from this show.