Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[formerlyfreedom]

This is the thread for spoilers and spoiler discussion. Speculation belongs in Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers. Widely available news belongs in the Media topic. If you're looking for a post, and it's not here, it very likely was moved to one of those topics.

 

To help you decide where you might want to post;

 

If it's posted on a site like TVLine.com or HitFix WITHOUT a spoiler tag? - it's news. It belongs in media thread.

If it's posted on a site like TVLine.com or HitFix WITH a spoiler tag? - it's a spoiler. Belongs here.

If it's posted on Spoiler.TV or is some sort of behind the scenes from twitter or the like? - it's a spoiler. Belongs here.

 

Thanks for all your help!

Edited July 2, 2015 by stacey

[Camera One]

Didn't Adam confirm at some point that season 4 would be a split season just like season 3?  I think he did.

This article also says "Galavant" will be a midseason replacement during "Once" hiatus, which means the season will be split in half, which means narratively, they will likely tell two stories. Let's just hope this time, there's more continuity between the 2 halves.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2014/05/13/abc-fall-schedule-2014/9033673/

[Selina K]

Anna and Elsa and Kristoff, too.  Mostly Elsa.

 

So I understand, this thread is not for spoilerly speculation?  It's spoilers only and all speculation should be in the speculation thread and spoilers should be hidden?  I will try and follow the rules, but if we could have a spoilery speculation thread, I would be in favor of that in that.  I sometimes forget what is a spoiler and what has already been revealed isn't when I'm speculating.

[pezgirl7]

Hmm, yea it seems strange that we can't speculate about spoilers here. Most spoiler talk is speculation anyway since we only find out small bits, and the rest is us trying to squeeze every last drop of possible plot information from one quote. LOL

[Souris]

The thread title is Spoilers and Spoilery Discussion, so I would think speculation discussion based on spoilers would fit here. The Speculation thread says "no spoilers."

Edited June 9, 2014 by Souris

[stealinghome]

Yes, my understanding is that we are allowed to discuss spoilers on this thread. The speculation thread is strictly for non-spoilered speculation. (But mods, obviously please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Edited June 9, 2014 by stealinghome

[Shanna Marie]

I think the distinction is that if you're just speculating based on things that we've already seen (Belle and Rumple may have issues, since he's lying to her about the dagger; there are going to be problems with the whole Robin/Regina/Marian thing), that goes in the non-spoilery speculation thread.

 

This thread is for speculation based on actual spoilers, which is information that hasn't yet appeared in the show. So, speculation about the role Anna and Kristoff might play would fit here, since all we know from the show itself is that Elsa's in town, and it's from another source that they're casting for those other roles. Will they be in the present, or will they only show up in fairybacks? That's what I'm curious about. If they're in the present, then they had to be frozen (ha!) in time some way, either through the curse, the Coradome or some other means, if they're not going to be about 30 years older, since Elsa was brought forward from before the curse.

[Selina K]

I'm just looking at Stacey's pinned post above and it says speculation belongs in the speculation thread and should use spoiler tags if it involves spoilers.  The example she uses is the casting of Anna.  But if I understand correctly, the fact that there will be an Anna is in itself a spoiler since we only saw Elsa on the finale.  So, if I were to post in the speculation thread it would be, "I think they would be wrong to cast 

Maggie Grace

as 

Anna.

 We tended to have a lot of speculation predicated on spoilers, such that an entire post would need to be spoiler tagged.  I'm not seeing this flowing in an elegant way that is conducive to conversation if it needs to be posted on the w/o spoiler thread, but I want to respect the rules here so I defer to the mods to clarify.

 

I think the name of the thread is based more on how we did it at TWoP since we pulled a lot of those over and maintained names for consistency, rather than being indicative of the PTV rules.

[formerlyfreedom]

Ooops, I meant for Elsa and Anna to be switched in my example. Thanks, , I'll fix that.

 

A big part of the reason for this being an issue is that I'm actually the only moderator in this topic; both aquarian1 and yeswedo prefer to avoid spoilers, and I'm fine with that. Hopefully clearing up my booboo above will help people understand better what we're looking for. It is pretty much known by everyone that Frozen is playing a part in at least next season first arc, so talking about that over in Speculation is fine. And you can absolutely post something spoilery here, and say, "Now I'm going to speculate over in that topic." It's not a big stretch that if Elsa is going to be in the 4th season, there's a good chance that Anna and Kristoff are as well - now that's speculation!

 

I hope this helps!

[pezgirl7]

So for example, when we saw the behind the scenes pics of Colin in the prince outfit, and were all speculating about why, and what it could mean for the finale, and why was his knee was wet, and why was Emma wearing a ring and in a peasant dress... would that all have to go in the speculation thread? Because I would think that entire post would need to be in a spoiler tag if that was the case.

[Joenigma]

 

I hope this helps!

I'm a little bit confused. Mainly because I don't see a difference between Spoiler Discussion and Speculation based off a Spoiler

 

Based on the recent link of the character description there was this interesting line :

 

KRISTOFF | This handsome,OnceUponaTime_Frozen_Kristoff hearty, salt-of-the-earth ice cutter spent most of his life alone (unless you count his reindeer). He has a sometimes-gruff demeanor that can hide his deep love for Anna and her sister Elsa. When we first meet Kristoff on Once, he is adjusting to life at the castle — including sleeping indoors for the first time in his life.

 

Based on this spoiler, it seems to me that the events of Frozen took place and that Elsa's imprisonment in the jar happened after the movie.

[formerlyfreedom]

So for example, when we saw the behind the scenes pics of Colin in the prince outfit, and were all speculating about why, and what it could mean for the finale, and why was his knee was wet, and why was Emma wearing a ring and in a peasant dress... would that all have to go in the speculation thread? Because I would think that entire post would need to be in a spoiler tag if that was the case.

 

No, the photo itself was a spoiler, and that was spoilery discussion.

 

 

Based on this spoiler, it seems to me that the events of Frozen took place and that Elsa's imprisonment in the jar happened after the movie.

 

And this is correct as well; the casting information is a spoiler.

 

Frozen as a plot point is a known going into the new season; so you CAN talk about Frozen and what you think might happen over in Speculation. What gets moved from here are the posts that don't have any spoilers in them. And right now, that's an awful lot of posts, because aside from some casting information and a few interviews, there really aren't many true spoilers out there.

[Selina K]

Thanks, Stacey! I think I am clear now ... maybe!

[pezgirl7]

Thank you Stacey! I think I am clear now also. So we can speculate here, as long as it's about spoilery stuff.

[formerlyfreedom]

If you have questions, please feel free to ask - and if you are really not sure, go ahead and post in here. I may PM you and move the post if it's speculation, but if you are truly worried about it being spoilery, it's better to have here. I try to get in here pretty regularly, but sometimes life happens!

 

Good rule of thumb; once production starts up in July, pictures, tweets, and interviews from the set will almost always be spoilers. Now enjoy!

[pezgirl7]

From tvline.com:

Now that Once Upon a Time’s Emma and Hook kissed, and she let go of her walls and fears, is a CaptainSwan relationship possible, or is it too soon? –freak91

Just because old issues have been put to rest, you can count on new ones arising. “There will be some challenges for them,” cocreator Adam Horowitz teases. Eddy Kitsis elaborates, saying, “The very first obstacle is Emma’s guilt over the fact that she just destroyed Regina’s relationship [with Robin Hood],” by transporting Marian to our world. “So there’s a part of her that feels guilt in starting a new romance of her own.”

 

 

UGH I hope Hook can talk some sense into her, preferably using puppy dog eyes and eyebrow action.

[KingOfHearts]

Please no. Hook, tell her straight up! Nip it in the bud! Have some wine over it! Just do it! We lost Snow, we can't lose Emma too!

Edited June 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

No No No!!! Are the writers smoking pot? This is seriously ridiculous BS! I will lose respect for Emma if she starts moping around and puts Hook off because of Regina angst.

[Serena]

That is straight up insane. Emma just witnessed Regina burn her mother alive, and she feels guilty for the fact that her boyfriend broke up with her? Why are they doing this to Emma? Whyyyyy?

[kili]

UGH I hope Hook can talk some sense into her, preferably using puppy dog eyes and eyebrow action.

 

Forget the puppy dog eyes. Just ask Emma if she's lost her ever frakkin' mind to feel one bit guilty about saving an innocent woman's life and then kiss her into tomorrow.

 

Leave the angst on this topic to Regina, Robin and Marian.

[Serena]

You know, if these writers had any self awereness, they could take this opportunity to bring up that time Regina caused the end of Emma's relationship, by murdering Graham. But they have a huge Regina boner in the place self-awareness should be, so that's not gonna happen.

Edited June 12, 2014 by Serena

[Rumsy4]

I am so enraged, I can't even... I seriously will stop shipping CS if Emma pushes Hook away again, especially for a messed up reason like this. This is seriously destroying Emma's forthright character!! 

[KingOfHearts]

Emma has never felt bad for Regina, why is she starting now?!

 

Emma, a lot of times, is the show's saving grace. Please writers - don't make her a pansy that sways to Regina's feelings!

Edited June 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[angelwoody]

The worst part is, what does she have to feel bad about? Saving an innocent woman from being put to death for helping her mother?? Making the moral choice? Being a hero?

It boggles the mind that THIS is going to be a storyline. How about instead, they explore Regina finally coming face to face with one of the many innocents she has killed without so much as a second thought? If the writers are so in love with Regina, the possiblities for a storyline about introspection and REAL redemption practically write themselves here.

Ugh. They're killing me with this nonsense. The Emma of season one would not have given a flying fig about Regina's delicate feelings in this situation.

[KingOfHearts]

The Emma of season one would not have given a flying fig about Regina's delicate feelings in this situation.

 

The Emma of season one would have nailed Regina when she was being lectured!

[regularlyleaded]

Just because old issues have been put to rest, you can count on new ones arising. “There will be some challenges for them,” cocreator Adam Horowitz teases. Eddy Kitsis elaborates, saying, “The very first obstacle is Emma’s guilt over the fact that she just destroyed Regina’s relationship [with Robin Hood],” by transporting Marian to our world. “So there’s a part of her that feels guilt in starting a new romance of her own.”

Oh, FFS. *le sigh*

 

I can't even summon the will to be angry at this show anymore. As inane and completely character ruining as that plot point is going to be, I feel like the writing on this show has tripped what I like to call my "rage circuit breaker". Basically, I've reached a point that I'm so disgusted and angry at the writing for this show that it has tripped some sort of "anger circuit breaker" inside me and I now feel nothing. *Feelings OFF*.

 

Honestly, my circuit breaker got tripped the moment they named baby Snowflake after Douchefire. Ha. HaHa. ha. *facepalm*

 

The writers had Emma's parents name her brother after the guy who inflicted a good majority of Emma's emotional damage on her. Douchefire betrays, abandons and sets up their homeless, underage, teenage daughter (she was the very definition of an at risk teen) which he also left pregnant (bonus points for the statutory rape, Douchefire...way to fail upwards) to rot in prison for his crimes, and they named Emma' baby brother after him. LOL.

 

I mean, I think the writers should have Snowing compile of list of all the people who have inflicted the most pain (emotional or otherwise) on Emma and just keep it handy for any future kids. Was there a woman that shivved Emma in jail, perhaps? If yes, then by all means let's name Emma's sister after that woman!

 

Oy.

[angelwoody]

The writers had Emma's parents name her brother after the guy who inflicted a good majority of Emma's emotional damage on her. Douchefire betrays, abandons and sets up their homeless, underage, teenage daughter (she was the very definition of an at risk teen) which he also left pregnant (bonus points for the statutory rape, Douchefire...way to fail upwards) to rot in prison for his crimes, and they named Emma' baby brother after him. LOL.

I mean, I think the writers should have Snowing compile of list of all the people who have inflicted the most pain (emotional or otherwise) on Emma and just keep it handy for any future kids. Was there a woman that shivved Emma in jail, perhaps? If yes, then by all means let's name Emma's sister after that woman!

I don't know how to do quotes on my tablet. That was by regularlyleaded and it sums up my feelings about the stupid and ridiculous naming of Snowflake. HATE!

Edited June 12, 2014 by angelwoody

[daxx]

When I saw that quote from Adam I was rather pissed. But it could be something resolved during the first episode with Emma talking about her guilt while everyone else supports her. If it becomes a multi episode arc I would be pissed, if it is in passing, eh, not so much. Often the stuff they talk about on twitter ends up being much less of a deal than we think in the actual show.

I will be very eye rolly if they separate Hook and Emma over this for any amount of time.

I know they will be separated in some way. I would prefer they were separated by distance for some plot reason rather than Emma pushing him away again. I want the villain to send Killian to another realm possibly and Emma and Charming have to get him back.

Angelwoody, if you open the forum in your browser and do not use the mobile version the quotes still show up. I use full rather than mobile on this site just so I get the quotes.

Edited June 12, 2014 by daxx

[kili]

When I saw that quote from Adam I was rather pissed. But it could be something resolved during the first episode with Emma talking about her guilt while everyone else supports her. If it becomes a multi episode arc I would be pissed, if it is in passing, eh, not so much.

 

Yes, if it just means that Emma notices Regina looking sad in Grannie's and decides to take the PDA's into the hallway once, I'll be okay. It's only polite not to rub somebody's nose in it when they've just been freshly dumped. But, if she spends episodes trying to apologize and pushing Hook away, I'll seriously question her judgement. This is an opportunity for Regina to learn a lesson, not everybody else. People don't need to apologize for saving innocent lives.

 

I want the villain to send Killian to another realm possibly and Emma and Charming have to get him back.

 

He needs to be frozen in Carbonite.  Charming and Princess Leia/Emma need to do a daring rescue. Grumpy and Archie can be R2D2 and C3P0.

[Rumsy4]

 

I would prefer they were separated by distance for some plot reason rather than Emma pushing him away again.

 

I don't think I can handle it if they repeat 3b. 

 

 

Angelwoody, if you open the forum in your browser and do not use the mobile version the quotes still show up. I use full rather than mobile on this site just so I get the quotes.

 

You can still do quotes on the mobile version! Just touch the post you want with your finger, and the quote button will show up.

[CatMack]

The thing about quotes directly from these showrunners is that often time they're totally full of crap.  Remember going into the finale, they said something about how Hook is getting fed up because the woman he falls for is the one woman who won't give into his charms.  And it was kind of grossly sexist and off-putting, the way they phrased it.  And then nothing of the kind actually showed up on screen, at all.  Occasionally, the writer's inability to understand how their story plays out on screen actually works in our favor.  So yeah, if Emma pushes Killian away for multiple episodes because of poor Regina, I will flip tables.  Or just writer a strongly worded rant (tables are expensive, OK?), but until I actually see what ends up on screen I'm not going to get too angry, because Adam and Eddie are pretty freaking clueless and their interviews are full of crap 90% of the time.

[retrograde]

Bah, I was afraid of this. I'm less bothered by the fact that Emma feels guilty when a) she shouldn't, and b) it's not very in line with her character, and more annoyed because I find the angsty-Emma/Hook-earnestly-trying-to-talk-sense-into-her dynamic really boring. I get that Hook is "the one who calls Emma on her BS" but he did so much of that last half-season that he just ended up being lecture-y (to me, anyway). I like much prefer when they're trading snarky barbs.

 

 

But I agree that there is every chance this won't actually be how it plays out on screen, so I'll hold off judgement until we see it.

[Souris]

This sounds exactly like what I was afraid of. I am praying to all the deities that it's just producer-baiting of the fans and it's something that gets cleared up in the first ep. I can see Emma feeling guilty at first, but I cannot deal with multiple eps of it or her pushing Hook away to punish herself. Because she wouldn't just be punishing herself, she'd be punishing him, too. Plus it's just STUPID and unwarranted.

 

What would actually be GOOD is if Snow took off her Regina blinders and was a mother to Emma here. Like, "OK, Regina ruined my life over her thwarted romance, but I am NOT letting her do that to my daughter! You did the right thing, Emma, so don't you dare let her steal your happiness by putting a guilt trip on you. You go lay one on your pirate right now!" 

 

Of course, since Snow is Regina's biggest apologist and cares more for her feelings than her daughter's, she'll probably join in on the guilt trip on Emma. So it may fall to Charming to be an actual parent who looks out for his daughter's happiness here.

[KAOS Agent]

For one episode (and only one episode), I could see sort of a big misunderstanding between Hook/Emma about Emma not wanting to be open about their relationship because of "guilt". Emma has just a general decency about not wanting to flaunt things in front of Regina, but Hook thinks it's because she's embarrassed/ashamed/whatever to be seen in public in a relationship with him. It just plays on his understanding that the Charmings don't approve or think he's good enough for her (which really Hook, Snow thought Neal was good for Emma, so her parents' judgment on this is highly questionable) in addition to Hook's uncertainty about Emma's feelings for him.

 

Emma feeling guilty about saving someone's life at the cost of Regina being dumped by her boyfriend of less than a week is ridiculous and horrible. The morality of this show is already so off kilter I'm not sure why I'd be surprised at them trying to play this, but I really, really, really hope this is not the case. And if I hear Regina tell Emma she's ruined her life, I hope to God Emma just laughs in her face.

[Rumsy4]

If Emma keep pushing Hook away for most of 4a over guilt about saving an innocent woman's life, then I'd say Hook deserves better, and hope he gets the heck back to the Enchanted Forest and to his beloved Rolly Joger. He deserves to be with someone who considers his happiness and put him first before a recovering sociopathic murderer.

This Show has seriously become so incredibly slanted in favor of Regina and so bent on victim-blaming, that I find it hard to believe this plot will be resolved in one episode or two.

[stealinghome]

When I saw that quote from Adam I was rather pissed. But it could be something resolved during the first episode with Emma talking about her guilt while everyone else supports her. If it becomes a multi episode arc I would be pissed, if it is in passing, eh, not so much. Often the stuff they talk about on twitter ends up being much less of a deal than we think in the actual show.

This. I mean, I think it's eyeroll-worthy, too, don't get me wrong. But especially over hiatuses, the writers tend to give little crumbs about things that are resolved in like half an episode and just make them sound like these BIG HUGE things (probably because they haven't plotted anything out yet...at least anything for anyone who's not Regina/Rumpel). I wouldn't be surprised if Emma's "guilt" is taken care of within the first 30 minutes of the premiere. So I'm not going for the pitchfork...yet.

 

The thing about quotes directly from these showrunners is that often time they're totally full of crap.... Occasionally, the writer's inability to understand how their story plays out on screen actually works in our favor.

This made me laugh. So true!

Edited June 13, 2014 by stealinghome

[YaddaYadda]

So fuck my life if this lasts more than 5 minutes (1 episode) and if it does, then he needs to stop chasing that woman since someday is like right after the season starts.  Jeebus!  The writers are total douches.  They're twisting Emma into a fucking pretzel over Regina's pain.

 

Glad to know that 4A is also about Reggie.

[InsertWordHere]

I agree that Emma won't push Hook away for long, if she pushes him away at all. It just sucks that there's never any emotional payoff except when it comes to something that upsets Regina. The Geppetto wardrobe lie? Barely covered. Graham's murder? Never mentioned. Even Rumple and Neal's reunion, which should have been the meatiest part of 2B, got shortchanged. Emma's boyfriend lied to her for 8 months and she only gets to talk about it twice. But Regina gets a woobie face and she's still allowed to bring it up for episodes afterwards. She's allowed to talk about Snow's horrible murder of her mother (which it really wasn't, but whatever) a full season after the event occurred. She's allowed to snark at Hook about the magic cuff 12 episodes later, while Hook isn't allowed to point out that they both betrayed each other. Now she's going to make Emma feel guilty, because unlike Regina, Emma is a person with a working superego, but I guarantee that Emma won't be allowed to talk about how emotionally devastating it was to watch her mother being burned at the stake while Regina laughed. Or if she is, Regina will throw a snarky comment at her and Emma will never bring it up again.

[MaiLuna]

I'm gonna hold on the the words "very first obstacle" and "part of her" and hope that it really does get resolved in the first episode (they can't have planned THAT far ahead) and if it doesn't then yeah, Hook needs to stop chasing that woman because I'll be more than tired of Emma pushing Hook away again.

 

I hope it's just a little bit of politeness towards Regina and not flaunting it in her face and they don't ruin Emma's character but making her think "I just saw this woman burn my mother alive and just experienced being thrown in jail with Marian to be executed because we tried to help her. So I'm gonna feel guilty about having a boyfriend because I saved Marian's life and reunited her with her family, making said woman sad about losing her 4 days long relationship".  

[sharky]

I pretty much agree with all of you! I can understand an episode of this -- after all, Emma was the one who brought Marian back and she is sharing Henry with Regina. I think there were sme times when she showed compassion towards Regina with memoryless Henry. I just hope that if anything it's a fake out because Emma and Hook are having a relationship in secret. That could bring quite some interesting situations which sticking with the whole not throwing it out in public for everyone to see.

[kili]

I just hope that if anything it's a fake out because Emma and Hook are having a relationship in secret.

 

Secret relationship? Only if I get to hear Grumpy say "They don't know that we know they know we know."

[InsertWordHere]

I'd love a Friends-esque secret relationship, but I don't want a dirty little secret secret relationship, if that makes any sense.

[KAOS Agent]

To be fair, pretty much everyone but Emma already thought she and Hook were in a relationship before the finale.

 

I always wonder if spoilers like this aren't the showrunners floating ideas out there to see what kind of reaction they get on stories that they really don't know where to go on. Broad strokes they know where they're going with Rumpel/Frozen and Regina/Robin/Marian, but side stories are more throw things at the wall and see if they stick. They're still in the planning stages and writing the first episodes, so say they have some vague ideas, float them out there and let the ABC marketing department loose on gauging potential fan reaction.

[regularlyleaded]

I always wonder if spoilers like this aren't the showrunners floating ideas out there to see what kind of reaction they get on stories that they really don't know where to go on. Broad strokes they know where they're going with Rumpel/Frozen and Regina/Robin/Marian, but side stories are more throw things at the wall and see if they stick. They're still in the planning stages and writing the first episodes, so say they have some vague ideas, float them out there and let the ABC marketing department loose on gauging potential fan reaction.

 

Well, if that's the case and if anyone from ABC marketing looks in here for my reaction/opinion on a story line that is about Emma feeling guilty about Regina's B.S. instead of telling Woegina to stick it where the sun don't shine, I want to be clear:

 

[stealinghome]

regularlyleaded, I cracked UP at your post. Bwah!

[KAOS Agent]

Okay, not quite what I meant on the gauging fan interest (as if they care what I think), but I'm never going to think of the horrible ideas these showrunners come up with again without thinking about Grumpy Cat screaming NO in their ears.

[stealinghome]

Well, goodness knows no one else is screaming that at them when they come up with their terrible, horrible ideas. The burden thus falls to Grumpy Cat (and us!).

[regularlyleaded]

Okay, not quite what I meant on the gauging fan interest (as if they care what I think), but I'm never going to think of the horrible ideas these showrunners come up with again without thinking about Grumpy Cat screaming NO in their ears.

 

Youuuuuu're Welcome. ;-)

[Rhetorica]

From tvline.com:

UGH I hope Hook can talk some sense into her, preferably using puppy dog eyes and eyebrow action.

Looks like Emma inherited the guilt gene from her mom. Sigh...

Edited June 13, 2014 by Rhetorica

[YaddaYadda]

Everyone seems to be glad to give up their happy ending so that Regina who in fact ruined everyone's happy endings can have hers or not feel slighted she doesn't have it.

 

The writers need to scale back on that particular hard on.