Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Hookian]

S6 will explore CS as a couple that knows what they want, sounds like they may get engaged in the finale. Can't wait.

[Mari]

1 hour ago, HoodlumSheep said:

But lots of people have already theorized the return of the EQ due to the Robin Death rumor.

so it wouldn't be surprising to the tumblr fandom at least.

Well, no.  But is it possible to overstate how much the show has underestimated the fans' ability to predict what will happen?

We were supposed to be super, super shocked that Red would be involved in a same-sex relationship.  Nope.  We were supposed to be super, super surprised that Zelena was Marian.  Nope.  That Rumple was evil again.  Nope.  That Belle was pregnant.  Nope.  That Zelena was Regina's sister.  Nope . . .

Usually, if we're surprised, it's not that no one thought of it--it's because people never thought the show would be that predictable or ridiculous.

34 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I thought Lana and A&E were saying we would get to see a lot more of the EQ in 5B, but that hasn't happened. I guess they might have dropped whatever it is they were planning when they decided to go Jekyll and Hyde for 6A.

This would make a lot of sense.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

We were supposed to be super, super surprised that Zelena was Marian.  Nope.

I think a lot of people were surprised by that. Speculation about it was mostly dismissed by the time the episode aired. But it definitely wasn't the "OMG! Shocking twist! Why didn't I see it coming??" A&E were probably expecting. 

In all honesty, I believe fans will be disappointed if its the Evil Queen duo nonsense. It's true they love the character, but do they really want to see Regina go through all that again, only now part-time? It's so very redundant to what we've already seen. I'm assuming Robin will die, Regina will handle it like she should, then bam - Evil Queen happens and has a plot for revenge spouting from it. 

Quote

I thought Lana and A&E were saying we would get to see a lot more of the EQ in 5B, but that hasn't happened. I guess they might have dropped whatever it is they were planning when they decided to go Jekyll and Hyde for 6A.

Whenever A&E drop spoilers about an upcoming arc, it usually only pertains to the first few episodes. They knew Regina was going to be in flashbacks for the first two, so that's probably why they said the Evil Queen would be prominent. 

[kili]

Quote

I'm all for Evil Queen Regina, as I find her more palatable that way. However, I do fear that there will be no responsibility or culpability to it.

Regina has never been held responsible for the things she did as the Evil Queen. People who bring up her past "indiscretions" are rude and seeking revenge on her makes you evil (see Owen/Greg and Sir Percival). At least if she's cursed into evilness (instead of choosing to do evil as she did in the past), one doesn't expect her to be responsible. 

A&E love the Evil Queen. I'd FAR rather have Regina be the Evil Queen under a curse in the current time line than watch EQ flashback number 798 where she fails to kill Snow, but kills 10 other people she'll never be held accountable for. EQ scenes are like taxes - you can complain about them, but they aren't going away. 

But it would be kind of odd for her to lose Robin, decide to stay good and then get infected with Jeckilitis. Or is that supposed to be what makes it tragic?

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

A&E love the Evil Queen. I'd FAR rather have Regina be the Evil Queen under a curse in the current time line than watch EQ flashback number 798 where she fails to kill Snow, but kills 10 other people she'll never be held accountable for. EQ scenes are like taxes - you can complain about them, but they aren't going away. 

Things is, we've seen Regina cursed as the Evil Queen already during the Shattered Sight spell. That failed so spectacularly that I can't say I have much confidence in Lana bringing back the spark for 6A. I really enjoyed the Evil Queen in S1 and even S2, but S3 onwards is pretty meh. It's a shared mess between the acting and the writing.

Edited April 30, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

1 hour ago, kili said:

But it would be kind of odd for her to lose Robin, decide to stay good and then get infected with Jeckilitis. Or is that supposed to be what makes it tragic?

I think it is. Regina goes through the same thing she did with Daniel, but this time she reacts like a sane person (especially since she has 43 cheerleaders now). But then BAM! She gets cursed. If this show was better, I would also say this could be an opportunity for Regina to see close up the damage the EQ does - but with TS, TW it will probably all end in a gigglefest like the Shattered Sight curse.

[Guest]

Is there actual confirmation that they are doing Jekyll and Hyde?

If they do make it so its a potion Regina takes, I think there is a decent chance that it will spread beyond Regina via a curse or EQ plot and get muddied from the source material to split Storybrooke character from EF character.

Snow's decision to be Snow White and not Mary Margaret could be a hint of that because its evidence that the writers are thinking about the duality of the cursed personalities and EF personalities during a time they'd be thinking about where to go next season.

I think we'll see MM/Snow, Lacey/Belle, and Rumple/Gold before the end of this.

[PixiePaws1]

12 hours ago, PixiePaws1 said:

Just thought some more about it and i am convinced Emma is literally going to carry Kiilian's soul in her heart. The test is her heart with his soul carried in it one side of the scale. Didn't she say that they would share a heart...or did she say 'split? 

Anyway. .that's my bug revelation / theory. That's how Killian's soul is getting back to SB. It also parallels Snowing but doesn't diminish their heart splitting. .

OMG!  I was right,  it IS Emma's heart in the bag!! I am positive her heart is going on that scale.

Edited April 30, 2016 by PixiePaws1
Text field locked and couldn't correct.

[YaddaYadda]

41 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

OMG!  I was right,  it IS Emma's heart in the bag!! I am positive her heart is going on that scale.

It looks like it.

The writers seem to have gone down the whole "a true hero is measured by the strength of his heart" bit from Hercules.

That's the first thing I thought about when I saw the pics.

[kili]

Quote

OMG!  I was right,  it IS Emma's heart in the bag!! I am positive her heart is going on that scale.

We are really mixing up our mythology here (what is new). Hades is Greek, but the heart/feather/scale thing is Egyptian. 

If the heart proved heavier than the feather, the heart was thrown on the ground where it was consumed by Amenti. Amenti was a god with the face of a...wait for it...crocodile. 

[Souris]

6 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Is there actual confirmation that they are doing Jekyll and Hyde?

If they do make it so its a potion Regina takes, I think there is a decent chance that it will spread beyond Regina via a curse or EQ plot and get muddied from the source material to split Storybrooke character from EF character.

Snow's decision to be Snow White and not Mary Margaret could be a hint of that because its evidence that the writers are thinking about the duality of the cursed personalities and EF personalities during a time they'd be thinking about where to go next season.

I think we'll see MM/Snow, Lacey/Belle, and Rumple/Gold before the end of this.

In a recent interview, JMo referred to the new characters as "literary."

I think there's a good chance multiple characters will end up having different personalities running around.

I wonder if Emma's heart will be too heavy at the start on the scale, and as they talk about things and get things out in the open, it gets lighter.

I also wonder if when Zeus ex machina swoops in to save Hook (insert eye roll), we get something like the Miracle Max/Westley "Princess Bride" scene -- "What you got there that's worth living for?" "Truuuuuuuuue Loooooove." Perhaps we'll also get some mutton commentary, since Prince Charles had thoughts about the mutton at Midas's party.

[oliverwendell]

I'm not so sure that's Emma's heart. What if it's Hook's? Maybe when you're dead, Hades has your heart in a bag. 

Now there's a sentence I'll never type twice.

[KingOfHearts]

28 minutes ago, oliverwendell said:

I'm not so sure that's Emma's heart. What if it's Hook's? Maybe when you're dead, Hades has your heart in a bag. 

Now there's a sentence I'll never type twice.

Brought to you by the Church of A&E.

[YaddaYadda]

4 hours ago, kili said:

We are really mixing up our mythology here (what is new). Hades is Greek, but the heart/feather/scale thing is Egyptian. 

If the heart proved heavier than the feather, the heart was thrown on the ground where it was consumed by Amenti. Amenti was a god with the face of a...wait for it...crocodile. 

Actually, Aphrodite, the Goddess of Love, has been depicted with the scales (erostasia). Both she and Zeus (golden scales in the Iliad) are judge and jury over their own domain.

I was sort of expecting her since the whole altar spoiler came out, but it's moot since she's not in the press release. Zeus, however is on his way, and I guess he'll be in both 5x21 and 5x22, since Hades is wrapping up in 5x22.

[RadioGirl27]

3 hours ago, Souris said:

I wonder if Emma's heart will be too heavy at the start on the scale, and as they talk about things and get things out in the open, it gets lighter.

I don't get this idea that, to pass the test, Hook and Emma are going to talk about their feelings. I've seen this speculation in different places and I don't understand it. This is not this kind of show. A&E are alergic to that kind of scene and they not going to waste time in them talking. That they are going to fail the first attempt is a given (hey, I would believe that they are going to be confirmed TL when I see it), but I doubt they are going to solve it talking.

1 hour ago, oliverwendell said:

I'm not so sure that's Emma's heart. What if it's Hook's? Maybe when you're dead, Hades has your heart in a bag. 

The way Emma and Hades are situated in this pic, I would say it's Emma's heart and Hades is the one that takes it.

[Guest]

I don't think Hades took Emma's heart.  Hades could be pulling the heart out of the bag rather than putting it in.  I tend to think he's returning a heart, so its got to be one of two things:

1) Ripping hearts out of chests is an EF thing.  So Rumple did it or Zelena under duress and Hades is returning it, probably with conditions, after Zelena is freed with their help

2) Its Hook's heart and returned in 'thanks' for getting Zelena back to avoid the split heart to get out of the Underworld thing.

One odd thing is that there is a picture of Emma holding that bag which leads me to believe at some point she has it in her possession but it wasn't put back in anyone.  So maybe I'm wrong and Hades helped them remove it from Emma so they could split it for Hook, because they tried and failed at that earlier in the arc.

[Watt]

Maybe Hades is the only person who can dehart Emma because I thought no one could for whatever reason?

[Rumsy4]

I just assumed that Emma herself can allow people to take her heart. It didn't work when Regina tried becasue Emma's name was on the grave stone.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Rumsy4

[legaleagle53]

On 4/29/2016 at 3:55 PM, PixiePaws1 said:

I  really don't think this TL test is about Emma letting Killian go. The scales look to be the key. They have to weigh whatever is in that bag....that looks particularly heart-sized to me. The fact that her heart couldn't be removed by Regina is haunting me. I  think it can be removed if Emma wants it to but only by someone like herself...like Pan had to get Henry to remove his own or maybe by Hades (since he's the god of Death). Not sure what Killian has to put on the scale but I am wondering if his soul isn't ending up inside her heart and both him and heart in that bag for Emma to carry back up to SB.

I'm responding to the bolded part, but it's not meant as a slam against you, pixiepaws1.  It bugged me in the last episode when Regina referred to Hades as the God of Death, too.  Hades is NOT the God of Death and never was, not even in classical mythology.  The God of Death was a separate deity known as Thanatos.  Hades is merely God of the Underworld.

Then again, this show can't even get the birth order of the gods right.  Hades is actually the oldest of the twelve Olympian gods as the firstborn of Cronus and Rhea, and Zeus is his YOUNGEST brother, not his OLDER brother.  The real reason that Zeus outranks Hades is that as the one who spearheaded the rebellion against Cronus after rescuing (with a little help from his mother Rhea and his grandmother Gaea) his five older siblings who had been devoured by Cronus, Zeus was given first choice of which kingdom he wanted to rule, and he chose Olympus, Poseidon chose the sea, and Hades chose the Underworld.

[KingOfHearts]

23 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Script Tease

In a scene beforehand, Robin runs into Merlin randomly in the woods:

Robin: "Merlin? I didn't know you were in the Underworld!"
Merlin: "I'm not. I have a thing for haunting people in other realms to give them ominous warnings."
Robin: "Oh... you don't have one for me, do you?"
Merlin: "You're gonna die, Robin."
Robin: "What? That can't be... what will Regina think?!"
Merlin: "Don't. Don't tell her. When you do something you're not supposed to, even for the right reasons, bad things will happen."
Robin: "What do you mean by that?"
Merlin: "I don't know. It's what I tell all my clients. Works in all situations, really."
 

Edited May 1, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[HoodlumSheep]

^ lol! Not gonna lie, I'd love to see Merlin in the UW, just to at least have his glorious face back on my screen once again. But knowing our luck, he'd pull something like what you just described. Heck, he'd probably pop in and see Henry, tell him the exact opposite of what the Apprentice told him, Henry would then follow Merlin's advice and in the end Merlin will explain to Henry that he just chose the darkest of all paths...and then peace outta there so fast.

 

at least we know Robin gets a line in this episode.

Edited May 1, 2016 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

They won't go this route, but it would be infinitely more interesting to me if Regina's Jekyll/Hyde business was Mayor Mills. You could say that her alter ego was dormant in her brain as part of the curse download and the potion tapped into it as her duo. If Robin dies though, that whole concept is rendered pointless. Besides, the Evil Queen is more "fun"!

If Regina goes Evil Queen, it's a repeat of the S4 cliffhanger. One of the main characters goes dark! Omg!

Edited May 1, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Serena]

16 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

If Regina goes Evil Queen, it's a repeat of the S4 cliffhanger. One of the main characters goes dark! Omg!

Which is why they'll do it, because giving Regina storylines Emma previously had is what A&E's naughty dreams are made of. Which is also why I think she's gonna have a romance with Jekyll and/or Hyde (let's be real, the evil one): Emma has a boyfriend who is a literary character from an English book, Regina gets a a boyfriend who is a literary character from an English book. Since the Hook story had the inversion that Pan was really the evil one of the two, guess what? Jekyll and Hyde's story will have the same inversion. Wait for it.

[Mathius]

25 minutes ago, Serena said:

Which is why they'll do it, because giving Regina storylines Emma previously had is what A&E's naughty dreams are made of. Which is also why I think she's gonna have a romance with Jekyll and/or Hyde (let's be real, the evil one): Emma has a boyfriend who is a literary character from an English book, Regina gets a a boyfriend who is a literary character from an English book. Since the Hook story had the inversion that Pan was really the evil one of the two, guess what? Jekyll and Hyde's story will have the same inversion. Wait for it.

I actually think that might be interesting, but only if Jekyll starts out good and Hyde starts out evil, it should not be inverted right away.  Hyde, in the story, was always Jekyll's evil side made manifest: a persona that could do all the things Jekyll may have secretly desired to do but his moral code prevented him from it.  It would actually be kind of fascinating if Hyde gained so much of his own sentience and became his own person and actually became converted, Jekyll suddenly will find that he's lost his outlet for indulging in all his dark desires, which drives him crazy and he finally has no other choice but to own his own inner evil and do all those deeds himself.  It'd be a nice commentary on how Hyde is kind of a scapegoat, as he was born from Jekyll and all of the evil he embodies is Jekyll's evil.  I'd sincerely enjoy watching that.

Which means chances are it's not happening. -_-

Edited May 1, 2016 by Mathius

[maryle]

I hate this show ! 

I was almost indifferent and not really excited any more and because of some promo and interview by JMO. I am looking at the clock!

I hate it and love it but mostly hoping I will not be too much desapointed after the show.

[Hookian]

1 hour ago, Mathius said:

I actually think that might be interesting, but only if Jekyll starts out good and Hyde starts out evil, it should not be inverted right away.  Hyde, in the story, was always Jekyll's evil side made manifest: a persona that could do all the things Jekyll may have secretly desired to do but his moral code prevented him from it.  It would actually be kind of fascinating if Hyde gained so much of his own sentience and became his own person and actually became converted, Jekyll suddenly will find that he's lost his outlet for indulging in all his dark desires, which drives him crazy and he finally has no other choice but to own his own inner evil and do all those deeds himself.  It'd be a nice commentary on how Hyde is kind of a scapegoat, as he was born from Jekyll and all of the evil he embodies is Jekyll's evil.  I'd sincerely enjoy watching that.

Which means chances are it's not happening. -_-

Dude this actually sounds very interesting and original. I love the concept.

[Mrs. de Winter]

Could there be two funerals?  One for Killian - that is not needed and one for (I assume) Robin at the end of the episode?

[chrisvee]

Is Hook finally coming back next week? I am 1000% over watching tearful goodbyes with Emma. These writers have gone to the same well too many times.

[formerlyfreedom]

Preview discussion go in Speculation, not Spoiler Discussion. Posts have been moved.

We want to keep this topic open after episodes air. Please help us by discussion the previews that air after the show in the place we've requested. Thanks.

[legaleagle53]

8 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

They won't go this route, but it would be infinitely more interesting to me if Regina's Jekyll/Hyde business was Mayor Mills. You could say that her alter ego was dormant in her brain as part of the curse download and the potion tapped into it as her duo. If Robin dies though, that whole concept is rendered pointless. Besides, the Evil Queen is more "fun"!

If Regina goes Evil Queen, it's a repeat of the S4 cliffhanger. One of the main characters goes dark! Omg!

What alter ego?  Regina was never cursed in the sense that everyone else was by the original curse.  As Mayor Mills, she was still exactly what she was in the Enchanted Forest, the only difference being that she didn't have her powers as a result of being transferred to a land without magic.  It wasn't until long after Emma had broken the original curse and Regina had started to realize that she had been wasting her life seeking revenge against a 10-year-old girl who didn't even know she had hurt Regina that Regina started turning back into the woman she had been before Cora and Rumple set her on the path to becoming the Evil Queen.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

What alter ego?  Regina was never cursed in the sense that everyone else was by the original curse.  As Mayor Mills, she was still exactly what she was in the Enchanted Forest, the only difference being that she didn't have her powers as a result of being transferred to a land without magic.  It wasn't until long after Emma had broken the original curse and Regina had started to realize that she had been wasting her life seeking revenge against a 10-year-old girl who didn't even know she had hurt Regina that Regina started turning back into the woman she had been before Cora and Rumple set her on the path to becoming the Evil Queen.

Regina had a duo personality, but she was aware of her true identity and past. It was part of her download. She didn't need to suppress her evil tendencies. But she had to have some kind of alternate personality to fit into Storybrooke.

Edited May 2, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

8 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Regina had a duo personality, but she was aware of her true identity and past. It was part of her download. She didn't need to suppress her evil tendencies. But she had to have some kind of alternate personality to fit into Storybrooke.

Responding in the Magic, Enchantments, and Curses thread.

[PixiePaws1]

Ok.....ugly sobbing at this end....

I am wondering if Zeus gives Killian back his life to go after Hades on his behalf in SB..not sure why Zeus would need a deceased mortal's help but I'm sure there's some dodgy mcguffin the writers can come up with 

Edited May 2, 2016 by PixiePaws1

[InsertWordHere]

Does Henry leave for NYC before Robin's death? I find it hard to believe he would leave Regina after something like that.

[KAOS Agent]

18 minutes ago, PixiePaws1 said:

I am wondering if Zeus gives Killian back his life to go after Hades on his behalf in SB

I think the part where Hook helped Megara may come into play. She's with Hercules on Mt. Olympus, so if Hook moves on, Herc could put in a good word for Hook and they can make up something where Zeus isn't interested/can't go to the mortal world/cannot hurt Hades himself and sends Hook back with some magical MacGuffin to deal with it.

Also, I'm kind of happy that they did not rescue Hook because it makes it so that it is not possible to bring back a dead guy. Dead is dead. No one else can come back. Unless something crazy happens like a god gives you another chance. Which makes Robin really most sincerely dead. Until they decide he isn't.

[Souris]

9 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

Does Henry leave for NYC before Robin's death? I find it hard to believe he would leave Regina after something like that.

After. I suspect there will be a bit of a time jump between eps 21 (funeral) & ep 22 (running off to NYC). Because it would be unbelievable Henry would leave Regina soon after that.

[Rumsy4]

I'm suddenly inappropriately snickering thinking that Rumple has gone to New York with Belle still in Pandora's Box.

[InsertWordHere]

"It's my wife in a box" would get some strange looks in NYC.

But seriously, I would assume he takes her out before then, if only to allow Maurice to attempt TLK. Unless Maurice is missing. Or Pan did something to the box.

[retrograde]

I gotta say, I think I'm as spoiled as any of us can be without having visited the set, but I have zero theories on the next few eps. I know Hook likely comes back (no idea how) and Robin likely dies (I'll hazard a guess that Hades does him in) but beyond that, what prompts the Camelots to return next ep and how does it go from there to NYC with Jekyll and Hyde?

Edited May 2, 2016 by retrograde

[YaddaYadda]

7 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

Does Henry leave for NYC before Robin's death? I find it hard to believe he would leave Regina after something like that.

I wonder if there isn't a time jump somewhere in the middle of 5x22. My understanding is that they are still dealing with Hades at the start of the episode. It makes no sense for Henry to be leaving Regina just like that, and to be unaffected by Robin's death if his reaction to Killian not going back with them to Storybrooke is anything to go by.

[KateJones]

Or what if it's Henry who dies, and the trip to NY is his flash sideways ala Jack on Lost? They all move on without him because he leaves them in a good place? 

[Mari]

I can't imagine they'd actually kill Henry.  Find a way to have him live off-screen or find a way to recast the part is remotely possible, but not actually dead Henry.  

[scenicbyway]

10 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

Does Henry leave for NYC before Robin's death? I find it hard to believe he would leave Regina after something like that.

Honestly, Robin's death might be the catalyst for running away to New York.  Henry's just had his first crush and kiss with Violet.  He's seen what Emma has been through this season, he's seen Hook killed and unable to come back from the Underworld.  Now Robin dies.  I can see why the kid might want to take his girlfriend and leave town.  I can also see Henry feeling responsible for Robin's death in that he didn't see it coming and he couldn't rewrite the ending (which, if Sean really isn't off the show, I'm guessing that Henry will be able to rewrite him in at some point).  They do only seem to have funerals for people that aren't coming back.

Regina has been completely distant from Robin this entire arc.  Did it even dawn on her to tell Robin they were leaving?  If he hadn't randomly shown up last night, she might've left him behind.  Such a change from wanting Emma to save him in 5a and being so giggly in love with him.  I also don't buy her choosing Zelena after one day of bonding over Robin.  But it doesn't really matter since he's off the show anyway.

[PixiePaws1]

1 hour ago, KateJones said:

Or what if it's Henry who dies, and the trip to NY is his flash scan'tways ala Jack on Lost? They  all move on without him because he leaves them in a good place? 

don't get my hopes up..lol...

If he did cark it...Regina would not be ok...unless she went the remove memory trace and i can't see them doing that. it would have to be one massive time jump for her to be as unaffected as she looks in future shots. Somethim..something out of left fi...ahh.can't delete the previous sentence..sorry

Edited May 2, 2016 by PixiePaws1
whenever i choose a word via predictive text the input is locked and i can't edit until i post it first..

[maryle]

That really great so much unknow even with the spoiler!

I do hope that Zeus have something to do with KillIan return to Storybrook because my biggest regret is not enough of others Gods. Even if I like Zades I am happy that Hades had his own evil plan.  

[Mathius]

I hope Zeus' intervention and Hades' defeat also releases every soul from the Underworld, since there are too many in the river that deserve to be freed, and I have no faith that Henry could have written everyone's unfinished business, that they'd find it just because he believes they can, or that they could find it before Cruella and the Blind Witch do (they'd be the first likely to once they see that their captives are gone.)

Edited May 2, 2016 by Mathius

[YaddaYadda]

I like how now that everyone's gone, Hook is actually looking for those pages from 5x15 that Liam tore from the book. You know pages where the answers are supposed to be. 

[Serena]

An Olympian named Crystal?? Is that a real thing?!

Quote

Hades, who continues to deceive Zelena 

Such true, much love.

Quote

Regina and Robin take a more direct approach, which culminates in an epic showdown that will leave our heroes forever changed

AKA they make a dumbass plan that gets Robin killed.

[YaddaYadda]

1 minute ago, Serena said:

An Olympian named Crystal?? Is that a real thing?!

No, that's not it. The Olympian Crystal, as in the Crystal of the Olympians (of the Gods).

They showed it in the promo, it's that thing Hades is magicking.

also, for being the older brother, the guy they picked to play Zeus is hella younger than Greg Germann.

[Artsda]

I didn't want to believe the rumors they killed Robin, but after seeing the promo I guess they did.