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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

regularlyleaded

By regularlyleaded
in Once Upon A Time

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ParadoxLost

ParadoxLost

I knew I remembered that dress some where. I'd almost think we're getting an appearance from Alice because of the whole asylum spoilers.

 

I's say there is a good chance that the asylum is the one from OUAT in Wonderland just because of movie coming out.   Although that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll do more than mention it.

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Camera One
Camera One

When everyone realized Rumple and Regina weren't coming back, they had a big celebration and put on a cloaking spell so they can never be found or contacted ever again.

Curio
Curio

At least someone is freaking out over Emma's darkness. Keep giving a shit, Hook! You're pretty much the only one who does...

Serena
Serena

HER GRANDMA IS EMMA! Are they being serious with this?

InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

 

The dress is definitely different.

They've changed dresses, but my point is that there's been a wedding dress in that window for seasons now, so I don't think that's a hint that CS will get engaged or married.

 

I really like the idea that it's a hint about Alice's asylum. 

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ParadoxLost

ParadoxLost

In light of tonight's episode, I'm gonna have to revisit the whole Rumple is in NYC to make a go of things with Belle because he wants to prove blah blah blah...

 

I don't know.  I think its still reasonable to assume that if Hades tells the others what she did then she'll flee out of shame because others perception of her character is more important than actual actions.

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scenicbyway

scenicbyway

I'm really wondering if Robin is killed in the Underworld but Zelena makes a deal with Hades where he's allowed to return to Storybrooke briefly to say goodbye to Roland aka the audience. It's just baffling that he's not in the group scenes at this point and there's been no reaction about his absence from Regina.

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InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

Do you think Emma's line that she's worried someone's going to die in the Underworld and it will be her fault was foreshadowing Robin's death in the Underworld?

 

That line made me nervous because I don't want Emma to feel responsible for Robin's death in any way, shape, or form. If he does die, I hope it's in fighting against Arthur, a corrupt king. Although that might be a retread of Hook's first "death", it seems like a more fitting way for Robin Hood to die. 

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daxx

daxx

Between Regina not being upset and Sean talking about the PlayStation he and Colin bought to play between scenes, I'm starting to doubt it was Robin who was killed.

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InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

Between Regina not being upset and Sean talking about the PlayStation he and Colin bought to play between scenes, I'm starting to doubt it was Robin who was killed.

I've been doubtful that he's really dead since we got the funeral spoilers. Regina just is not acting like I'd expect her to if Robin was really dead or even if they're broken up. Either Regina's mind has been altered by a spell or memory potion (which would be totally in character for her to take) or something else is going on here. If he is dead, then I don't think Zelena has anything at all to do with it, because Regina and Zelena seem pretty close in upcoming episodes. That just does not fit with what we know about Regina, even if Robin sacrifices himself in someway for Pistachio, Regina would still blame Zelena, especially if Arthur or Hades (both quasi-allies of Zelena's) cause his death. And why would Roland be sent away if Robin is dead? His sister and only remaining family is still in Storybrooke. It just doesn't seem right to me. 

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SiobhanJW

SiobhanJW

(edited)

I've been doubtful that he's really dead since we got the funeral spoilers. Regina just is not acting like I'd expect her to if Robin was really dead or even if they're broken up. Either Regina's mind has been altered by a spell or memory potion (which would be totally in character for her to take) or something else is going on here. If he is dead, then I don't think Zelena has anything at all to do with it, because Regina and Zelena seem pretty close in upcoming episodes. That just does not fit with what we know about Regina, even if Robin sacrifices himself in someway for Pistachio, Regina would still blame Zelena, especially if Arthur or Hades (both quasi-allies of Zelena's) cause his death. And why would Roland be sent away if Robin is dead? His sister and only remaining family is still in Storybrooke. It just doesn't seem right to me. 

I go back and forth on it as well. Regina just doesn't seem distraught at all in any of the filming we have seen. Unless she did take something. Maybe Robin ended up bringing Arthur back to Camelot another way (or did we see him going through the door- or was that just other people from Camelot?) And he will be staying there for a bit to get things in order and then will return. 

 

Maybe the funeral scenes have something to do with resurrecting Hook? 

Edited by SiobhanJW
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InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

Unless you're talking about Daniel, people seem to get over death fairly quickly on this show. 

But looking at it the other way, using Daniel as an example, Regina doesn't seem to get over death quickly. I don't think she got over Cora's death quickly either. However, could we have judged Regina's mindset after Cora's death in Season 2 or Emma and Rumple's after Neal's death going strictly by spoiler pictures? I'm not sure, so your point stands.

 

Maybe he is dead and Regina not going postal and forgiving Zelena and letting Roland go is supposed to show her character growth. The thing is, I wouldn't exactly blame Regina for going off the deep end if he dies and I'm not even a huge fan of hers. 

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KAOS Agent

KAOS Agent

 

Have we seen Belle outside the Underworld? I know Emilie just had her baby a month ago.

 

The last filming we saw with Belle was still in the Underworld during the filming of "Sisters" and it was only her stunt double. Emilie was home in Los Angeles for about a month before she gave birth, so unless they filmed a lot in advance or Emilie filmed in studio in LA, I think Belle's gone by 5.20 which seems to be when they leave the Underworld. I think there's a side plot where Rumpel and Pan kidnap Zelena in an attempt to swap her for the things they want. Maybe Belle gets a ride home then? 

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

But looking at it the other way, using Daniel as an example, Regina doesn't seem to get over death quickly. I don't think she got over Cora's death quickly either. However, could we have judged Regina's mindset after Cora's death in Season 2 or Emma and Rumple's after Neal's death going strictly by spoiler pictures? I'm not sure, so your point stands.

 

Maybe he is dead and Regina not going postal and forgiving Zelena and letting Roland go is supposed to show her character growth. The thing is, I wouldn't exactly blame Regina for going off the deep end if he dies and I'm not even a huge fan of hers. 

 

I think Daniel's death and Robin's death would be vastly different for Regina because of the kind of support she now has. Daniel was murdered in front of her by her own mother, and then she told her that love was weakness before basically marrying her off to someone who could pass for her father. With Robin though, they've been reinforcing that it's not just Robin that makes her happy, but that fact that she is part of a unit with other people she now considers her family. So I'm assuming that this will come into play when and if Robin bites the dust. 

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

The B plot with Emma/Hook/Snow was nice enough, more interesting than the main plot (not by much), but it made them look silly. The dream premonition coming true and freaking Emma out makes sense, but then they were just hiding in the vault for hours? They had no plan (whats new?). Indefinite camp out I guess. lol And Regina just walking in means they didn't even barricade the door. It was all a convoluted way to introduce Ruby. Maybe it was also intended to introduce Emma's precognitive abilities if that's something that will be continued.

 

 

I'm wondering if Emma's precognitive ability is something that Hades is responsible for and I'm also wondering if it's supposed to kill her hope. After all, it was that dream which caused her to question what she had done and made her feel responsible for everyone being down there. And since Hades seems all about killing hope, it sounds like it could be a mind-game he's playing. He seems to have played one with Belle.

Maybe Robin's death is going to be a result of that? Maybe Hades hopes by killing Robin/separating him from Regina he can kill Regina's hope? I would think Regina's hope is the most fragile (even though it seemed that it wasn't hard to crash Belle's but considering the characters' history I'd say Regina's would logically be the most fragile) but I also think that it would need something like taking Robin away from her to destroy that hope because she was so focused on love being her happy ending.

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SiobhanJW

SiobhanJW

I'm wondering if Emma's precognitive ability is something that Hades is responsible for and I'm also wondering if it's supposed to kill her hope. After all, it was that dream which caused her to question what she had done and made her feel responsible for everyone being down there. And since Hades seems all about killing hope, it sounds like it could be a mind-game he's playing. He seems to have played one with Belle.

Maybe Robin's death is going to be a result of that? Maybe Hades hopes by killing Robin/separating him from Regina he can kill Regina's hope? I would think Regina's hope is the most fragile (even though it seemed that it wasn't hard to crash Belle's but considering the characters' history I'd say Regina's would logically be the most fragile) but I also think that it would need something like taking Robin away from her to destroy that hope because she was so focused on love being her happy ending.

But didn't we see Robin get back to Storybrooke and be reunited with Ronald? So I would assume that would mean they get out of the Underworld and he gets killed in Storybrooke. Unless Hades follows them back there. 

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

But didn't we see Robin get back to Storybrooke and be reunited with Ronald? So I would assume that would mean they get out of the Underworld and he gets killed in Storybrooke. Unless Hades follows them back there. 

 

He might because 5x21 still has him as a guest star, plus I think 5x21 is his centric. But Hades can't harm anyone in the Above World, so unless something has changed, I can't imagine that Hades will be behind Robin's death.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

SiobhanJW, on 11 Apr 2016 - 1:10 PM, said:

But didn't we see Robin get back to Storybrooke and be reunited with Ronald? So I would assume that would mean they get out of the Underworld and he gets killed in Storybrooke. Unless Hades follows them back there. 

 

Are we sure it's Storybrooke and not the Underworld? Considering all the people who have shown up in the Underworld, I find it possible that Roland and Little John could show up there as well. I also find it possible that Robin is allowed to go back for a limited amount of time in the end. It could be a deal they strike with Hades or something which happens because they defeat him.

Ever since the photos showing Robin and Roland reuniting I've been wondering if this is simply a goodbye because of the look Regina has on her face in those photos. It does look kind of of bitter-sweet to me. She's not entirely happy.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

From the Advisory Panel, pic of Red and Dorothy.

 

Not gonna lie, a Ruby/Dorothy pairing is making me see red. Why? Why even go there with a one off character? Is it because Jamie Chung has a pilot and they wanna make sure they have access to an actress that might be more available?

 

Seems Ruby's mission is the same one as Emma's mission.

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scenicbyway

scenicbyway

Not gonna lie, a Ruby/Dorothy pairing is making me see red. Why? Why even go there with a one off character? Is it because Jamie Chung has a pilot and they wanna make sure they have access to an actress that might be more available?

 

Seems Ruby's mission is the same one as Emma's mission.

The thing is, it's not like they're going to bring Ruby back as a series regular either.  She's been glaringly absent from Storybrooke for what 2-3 seasons?  It sure seems like they are making it a "very special episode" when the writers have said that not what they want to do.  But they also said Will would have a storyline and Robin would be a series regular, neither of which have panned out.

 

The Nevengers have gotten no where in their escape or further rescue of the souls stuck in the Underworld.  Shouldn't that be where the show actually spends their time?  Do they not realize that Zelena has the power to get them out of there?  Ugh.

 

My new theory is that Henry and Charming are actually going back and forth between Underbrooke and Storybrooke to check on Neal and get more paper for Henry's sleepytime writing.  They just haven't bothered to tell the ladies and Hook yet.

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Mathius

Mathius

(edited)

If it's Ruby/Dorothy instead of Ruby/Mulan, rendering the stuff in "The Bear King" entirely pointless, I will flip tables.

 

Is this yet another one of their ideas of a "Shocking!Twsit!"?  Make us think we know the LGBT pairing, then pull a bait and switch?  Because that doesn't work at all, in fact it's actually kind of offensive. So much for "earning" the LGBT story.

Edited by Mathius
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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

It's not like the writers give het ships better build-up either. Hades fell in love with Zelena after a bike ride. I'm wondering if this means Ruby will be off to fictional Kansas with Dorothy at the end of the episode and we'll never see her again. 

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RadioGirl27

RadioGirl27

(edited)

In this pic, Ruby has Dorothy's flower attached to her dress. With this Ruby goes to the UW to save her week-long girlfriend and does it with a TLK, A&E are, once again, cheapening Emma's journey and CS. Not that I'm surprised, but still, it's ridiculous.

 

If it's Ruby/Dorothy instead of Ruby/Mulan, rendering the stuff in "The Bear King" entirely pointless, I will flip tables.

I think a trip to Ikea is in order ;-)

Edited by RadioGirl27
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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

(edited)
Rumsy4, on 11 Apr 2016 - 5:18 PM, said:Rumsy4, on 11 Apr 2016 - 5:18 PM, said:

It's not like the writers give het ships better build-up either. Hades fell in love with Zelena after a bike ride. I'm wondering if this means Ruby will be off to fictional Kansas with Dorothy at the end of the episode and we'll never see her again. 

 

Technically, they are still fairy tale characters (with the exception of Hades who is mystical creature and Arthur who is a legend and maybe Robin Hood who is also a legend but also a fairy tale) and I have yet to come across a fairy tale in which characters didn't fall in love instantly. It seems that Emma is the only one who, so far, didn't fall in love instantly, which kind of makes sense considering she grew up in "our" world. (Okay, Belle and Rumple, too, but that's part of their story) But since they are fairy tale characters, I don't really have a problem with the quickness with which the characters fall in love, whether it's Hades and Zelena and a bike ride or a romance between Ruby and Dorothy which comes more or less out of the blue for us.

I'm hoping we get an update on Mulan, however, I'm not holding my breath.

 

It just occured to me - why did they write Belle's pregnancy into the story? She didn't even know yet, that must mean she's barely pregnant which makes it unlikely Belle starts showing in any of the next episodes. However, the actress just gave birth, so by the time they start filming again, they don't have a pregnancy they need to explain anymore. If you think about it, it only would have made sense if they had jumped right into the pregnancy like they did with Snow or Belle would have been pregnant earlier so that she would be showing by now. But they still need to hide it and it sounds like they have to hide it for the rest of the season, so are they going to or are we getting a time jump or another sped up pregnancy? Or would Belle have been pregnant anyway and it's just a coincidence?

Edited by CheshireCat
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scenicbyway

scenicbyway

Technically, they are still fairy tale characters (with the exception of Hades who is mystical creature and Arthur who is a legend and maybe Robin Hood who is also a legend but also a fairy tale) and I have yet to come across a fairy tale in which characters didn't fall in love instantly. It seems that Emma is the only one who, so far, didn't fall in love instantly, which kind of makes sense considering she grew up in "our" world. (Okay, Belle and Rumple, too, but that's part of their story) But since they are fairy tale characters, I don't really have a problem with the quickness with which the characters fall in love, whether it's Hades and Zelena and a bike ride or a romance between Ruby and Dorothy which comes more or less out of the blue for us.

I'm hoping we get an update on Mulan, however, I'm not holding my breath.

 

It just occured to me - why did they write Belle's pregnancy into the story? She didn't even know yet, that must mean she's barely pregnant which makes it unlikely Belle starts showing in any of the next episodes. However, the actress just gave birth, so by the time they start filming again, they don't have a pregnancy they need to explain anymore. If you think about it, it only would have made sense if they had jumped right into the pregnancy like they did with Snow or Belle would have been pregnant earlier so that she would be showing by now. But they still need to hide it and it sounds like they have to hide it for the rest of the season, so are they going to or are we getting a time jump or another sped up pregnancy? Or would Belle have been pregnant anyway and it's just a coincidence?

I think it's clear they didn't need to write in a Belle pregnancy.  They barely use Belle to begin with and Emilie's been able hide behind her coats.  With no time jumps on this show, Belle will be pregnant for the next 4 years.  At least with Ginny's it makes sense she'd still look pregnant because Neal's all of 2 months old at this point?

 

My question is, it appears that Emilie's pregnancy was a surprise, yet, it's the major driving force in Belle and Rumple's storyline in 5b, at what point did the writers decide to make it a major arc in the storytelling, and why?

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

I think it's clear they didn't need to write in a Belle pregnancy.  They barely use Belle to begin with and Emilie's been able hide behind her coats.  With no time jumps on this show, Belle will be pregnant for the next 4 years.  At least with Ginny's it makes sense she'd still look pregnant because Neal's all of 2 months old at this point?

 

My question is, it appears that Emilie's pregnancy was a surprise, yet, it's the major driving force in Belle and Rumple's storyline in 5b, at what point did the writers decide to make it a major arc in the storytelling, and why?

 

My understanding is that they knew Emilie was pregnant all the way back in July, so they could have written it in as soon as episode 5x06 (which incidentally happened to be Belle and Rumple heavy). All they needed to do was a flashback, or confirm that she's never done anything with Will other than make out with him.

 

Anyway...

 

About Ruby and Dorothy, if this is the pairing, then I'm assuming that Dorothy being under the "unbreakable curse" means that she might confined to the UW because she might technically be dead, but actually not really dead. But since it's a curse that can't be broken, she might as well be dead.

 

I think it will likely end up paralleling Captain Swan in some way and give us a hint about how Emma will get Killian out of the UW. Plus I'm assuming at this point that Ruby will be leaving the UW, probably with Snow in tow since I think the press release mentions something about Snow and David trying to figure out a way that one of them might be able to leave.

 

I wonder how auntie Em figures in the whole thing. Maybe she hates Dorothy because she's either bi or gay, kicks her out, and that's what Zelena was alluding to when she said it looked like something had happened to Dorothy. Maybe Auntie Em is in the UW too, her unfinished business being Dorothy because of the way she may have treated her.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

Because we constantly have to be reminded that EVERYONE has does something evil on this show.

Well Emma sent Cruella, Henry sent a pen, and Snow sent Cora. If Hook wants to join the White family, it will require sending one person to the Underworld. Claude meets that quota for him.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Watt

Watt

Poor Mulan. Everyone's getting laid but her.

I didn't think Robin died ages ago and I still don't think he does. Maybe he sends bb dimples off for safety and then he goes off to do this or that or maybe he and Regina just decided to part ways or whatever who knows. There's no way her soul mate dies and Regina doesn't lose her shit.

Speaking of Camelot though because I already forgot, Lancelot went to get the lady of the lake to help last minute right? Whatever happened to that plot did he ever get seen again or did I miss it? Curse just take over and he wasn't heard of ever again?

I am so tired of these writers. You have to think that the actors get a bit irritated too, right? They never follow through on anything. No wonder Captain Swan is so popular and beloved. It's the only thing they've done right. So far, knock on wood.

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InsertWordHere

InsertWordHere

LOL at Claude being in the press release. That random guard Hook killed in S2 will be in the Underworld.

Claude also sold Belle out to Regina. He should probably stay away from Rumbelle, because we all know what happens to the dead souls they meet up with, but since neither of them killed him, I suppose he's safe. 

 

It would be kind of hilarious if Claude was used as a random soul needed to get through the doorway at Emma's house, considering his body was used as a random extra passenger for the hat. 

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

^^^Too funny, InsertWordHere! I wish they do that!

If Rumple finds out just who he is (and lbr, Belle will blurt it out if she saw him), he's not going to be long for this er.. underworld.

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kili

kili

Claude was also a jerk to Belle (making fun of her for reading a book, stealing the book and then trying to toss her in a well) and Mulan had to kick his butt.

 

Maybe he continues to be a jerk in the Underworld and Dorothy has to kick his butt this time. Or Belle throws him another one of the rivers.

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

I suppose Claude's role in this episode will depend on whether he's connected to Belle or to Hook.

 

If it's about his connection to Hook, then if Hook gets the villain treatment, we'll see just what a jerk Claude was. In addition to kidnapping Belle, he'll have been abusing her while she was Regina's prisoner and will have been an overall terrible person, so Hook killing him will be seen as a public service, and he'll either end up dumped in the River of Souls or sent on to the bad place, and that will be treated either as a joke or as a triumph for our heroes. I suppose you could expect the same thing if he's connected to Belle and Rumple. Rumple will be allowed to dump him in the River of Souls as payback for kidnapping Belle, and all will be okay.

 

If it's about Hook and Hook is being treated as a hero, then we'll learn that Claude was bullied as a kid, and that's why he was mean to Belle, and so Hook will have been terrible for killing him and will be responsible for helping Claude move on. Or else we'll learn he was like that because Regina took his heart and was forcing him, so Hook will be at fault for killing him, with no mention of Regina's culpability for having taken his heart. Though I suppose it's hard for them to take the "poor Claude" route since he was already established as having done something bad to Belle, and anyone who's ever been mean to Belle in the past is apparently a terrible person.

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Curio

Curio

Will the general audience even remember who Claude is? My friend who casually watches the show with me needed a reminder about who Milah was when she showed up in the Underworld, and then I had to explain the whole Rumple/Milah/Hook love triangle like it was brand new information to her. 

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Will the general audience even remember who Claude is?

I presume that will be in the "previously" segment, and which clip they use will suggest his role in the episode. If it's him taking Belle, then he'll be treated like a villain. If it's Hook killing him and dragging his body to Wonderland, he'll be treated like a victim. Or we may get brand-new flashbacks about something else involving him.

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kili

kili

Though I suppose it's hard for them to take the "poor Claude" route since he was already established as having done something bad to Belle, and anyone who's ever been mean to Belle in the past is apparently a terrible person.

 

That's fundamentally why they had Hook kill Claude. Claude could have been any one of a number of faceless Black Knights that have been killed by various people (Regina, Grumpy, Charming), but we got to see his face, a name and a reminder as to who he was. It's interesting because the first person we see Hook kill is somebody who the writers felt deserved it.

 

Belle may save him to make up for tossing Gaston in the river, but he most likely gets sent to a worse world by somebody. Claude is the guy who is there to get his butt handed to him. If Blacktooth got killed for not telling Regina where Snow is and sent to the firepit for telling Cora where Regina was, what chance does Claude have of bypassing the same fate?

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scenicbyway

scenicbyway

in the music links for Firebird....heard a lot of the CS theme from the Neverland kiss....only it sounds even more romantic ...at least to my ears.....

I thought it was interesting that Colin retweeted the clip as well.  Perhaps it does have to do with CS.

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oliverwendell

oliverwendell

Zelena looks  gorgeous in that sneak peek. I want that blouse.

I'm also feeling really bad for her, thanks to Mader's performance. Zelena is utterly self-sabotaging, and brings all her misery on herself by the way she treats others, but I still find her sympathetic. That's how you make a redemption story work, IMO.

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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

(edited)

I don't know what to feel about that sneak peek. I feel like Hades might be trying to manipulate Zelena a little, but then there's a part of me that feels like he's just not on the same page as her currently.

And he's a villain, while Zelena seems to be slowly turning things around. Like, there's an unequal balance of sorts like the imbalance CS had due to the 1 yr timeskip where Hook's love for Emma was cemented while Emma didn't have that opportunity due to the memory loss. So another CS parallel o sorts :P

Wicked hell/Hell Witch probably won't end well and I'll have to toss it into the bin with my other guilty plaesure/villain ships (AuthElla--sorry Cruella/James--and Rumple/Cora).

:(

I feel bad for Zelena a little. She's so stressed out. She's so worried that if she makes another wrong move Regina will snatch Pistachio away from her forever.

Edited by HoodlumSheep
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