Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Shanna Marie]

I was considering that it could also be the ep or dailies they were about to watch. Brigitte has referred to them doing both those things at various times. I'd have to go back and do the filming timeline vs. her posting calculations to be sure of the timing whether that made sense, though.

Again, this might be me reading far more into it, but it struck me as something coming from brainstorming, that "oh, this is going to be so good!" sense you get from coming up with a fun idea, as opposed to reacting to something that's been written and shot.

 

I'd say following Emma down Zelena's time portal was pretty damn heroic. Also, outrunning the curse and trading his ship was a very heroic off screen event, so it'd be nice to actually see something on screen that's heroic.

I don't think they played those moments as "full-on hero," though. The ship might have been if we'd seen it. Going down the portal just involved letting go. I guess when I hear "full-on hero," I'm thinking of something like Erroll Flynn swinging in on the chandelier, brandishing his sword, just at the right moment to save the day, or else single-handedly taking on the bad guys to allow the innocents to escape -- something like Hook in the AU, but more triumphant and less awkward and inept.

 

I think we have discovered her new hobby :-)

Messing with the dwarfs probably came after knitting was what turned her completely dark (if she was trying the pattern I just started, that might have done the trick).

[Curio]

Episode 5x10 "Broken Heart" Written by Dana Horgan & Tze Chun

 

5x10 is the 5A finale, right? Isn't it a bit strange that Adam & Eddy aren't writing this one? Don't they usually write every premiere and finale episode of the season?

 

(Not that I'm complaining too much...I tend to find A&E's episodes the weakest of the season and ironically the episodes with the most retcons.)

Edited October 7, 2015 by Curio

[HoodlumSheep]

^ true. But if the 11th episode is the 100th (is it?), then maybe they decided to concentrate on that instead.

Broken Heart. Figuratively or literally?

[YaddaYadda]

They did say we would be revisiting that. Maybe somebody has to share a heart with Emma or Emma has to share her heart with somebody else and Regina gets to heroicly break one again?

 

I do think we have a David situation on our hands...And Emma doesn't need Regina to break a heart, she can do it all on her own.

[RadioGirl27]

5x10 is the 5A finale, right? Isn't it a bit strange that Adam & Eddy aren't writing this one? Don't they usually write every premiere and finale episode of the season?

 

From Brigitte Hales twitter:

@InkTankGirl The title of the winter finale does not sound very hopeful, lol

 

Brigitte Hales@InkTankGirl

@Betsypaige24 That's not the finale.

So, maybe they are adding an extra episode.

 

Broken Heart. Figuratively or literally?

Maybe someone's heart is going to be crushed.

Edited October 7, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Curio]

If we follow the foreshadowing/continuity fairy...

 

Regina follows up on Emma's plea to destroy her by crushing her heart and breaking the Dark One's curse. (Broken Heart.) A broken-hearted Hook uses his enchanted hook to take out his own heart, he splits it in two, copies Snowing, and brings Emma back to life.

 

Too easy, right?

[KingOfHearts]

These titles are extremely uncreative to me. There are now 3 episodes with the word "Broken" in the name. Can't they do something more interesting than random nouns?

 

 

So, maybe they are adding an extra episode.

Unless one of them is a two-parter, the 100th episode thing doesn't add up.

Edited October 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

Again, this might be me reading far more into it, but it struck me as something coming from brainstorming, that "oh, this is going to be so good!" sense you get from coming up with a fun idea, as opposed to reacting to something that's been written and shot.

 

I had remembered the "full-on hero" tweet as being a lot earlier, but it was Sept. 25. So now I think you're probably right.

 

Brigitte followed up the "it's not the winter finale" tweet with one that said "I could be wrong." So who knows!

 

If we follow the foreshadowing/continuity fairy...

 

Regina follows up on Emma's plea to destroy her by crushing her heart and breaking the Dark One's curse. (Broken Heart.) A broken-hearted Hook uses his enchanted hook to take out his own heart, he splits it in two, copies Snowing, and brings Emma back to life.

 

Too easy, right?

 

Even for CS, I don't want to see that plot point again! But his hook is pretty much a Chekhov's hook at this point, so I feel it will come up again somehow. Even on this show of dropping stuff like that.

 

How do they get around Emma's heart not being able to be removed? Or could she remove it herself?

[sharky]

What's up with Brigitte's tweet? Are they currently filming two episodes at once because ABC gave them an order for an extra episode like they did last season? And can we hope they learned from last year and are making a second separate episode instead of one big bloated one?

 

ETA: Her "I could be wrong" makes me think she was think season finale and not season 5A finale. Although you would think even a new writer would know the difference. And again, if that's the case, why not have Adam and Eddy write it? Perhaps they are focusing on episode 100 more.

Edited October 7, 2015 by sharky

[Mari]

There was an actual commitment to get back to the shared heart?  I remember a "we're hoping to. . .", but didn't know they'd decided to actually do it.

 

If they are doing another split, shared, heart--what are the chances they did it with Regina and Robin, during Camelot flashbacks?  We've joked, and then shook our heads, over how they're making sure to give Regina and Robin every special moment. . . . 

 

The show thinks of the split heart as a powerful, emotional moment that demonstrates the true depth of Snow and Charming's relationship.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Mari

[scenicbyway]

Would they seriously have a bunch of people running around Storybrooke with half hearts?  I really hope this isn't the way to save Emma.

 

So as of now:

 

Snow and Charming --half hearts

Rumple is slowly dying so no doubt Belle will have to give half her heart to him

Robin has extremely bad luck almost dying constantly so it's inevitable that Regina will have to give him part of her coal heart

And Captain Swan is a version of everything that Snowing has experienced so Hook will have to give half of his to Emma.  There's got to be a reason why his Hook is enchanted to take a heart.

At least Henry has that spell on his so no one else can take it (again)...

[Souris]

I wonder if this weird group of Merida, Ruby, Mulan, Arthur, Wicked & Hook is on some sort of quest? Perhaps to get something to help Emma?

[KingOfHearts]

 

I wonder if this weird group of Merida, Ruby, Mulan, Arthur, Wicked & Hook is on some sort of quest? Perhaps to get something to help Emma?

So a bunch of side characters go an adventure to save Emma? I can't wait to watch that combination if that's the case.

[Souris]

So a bunch of side characters go an adventure to save Emma? I can't wait to watch that combination if that's the case.

 

It's such a weird combination of characters filming!

[HoodlumSheep]

^ that does sound like a fun combo.

And about that sneak peek; if Rumple is talking about Hook then I call foul and Spirit!Rumple is up to something...somehow.

[Lieutenant]

Anyone else feeling that Killian is the hero Emma needs to pull Excalibur from the stone (based off the sneak peek)?  I want it to be him so badly, but I'm afraid to hope.  Ya know, TS;TW. 

[Curio]

"We want you to snuff out the light, so we need a hero to pull Excalibur from the stone. Now let's face the facts, that's not going to be you. So why don't you stop messing around and go get the hero we need. Oh, and you and I both know who that is."

 

I really need Emma to take this as a challenge and become a hero by the end of the arc so she can pull it out herself. But instead of pulling it out with the intent to "snuff out the light," she's doing it to destroy the darkness somehow. If Regina took Emma's taunting last episode as a challenge to become the savior, why can't Emma take this as a challenge, too?

 

And ugh...yes writers Rumple, we all know who you're talking about because the previous episode was about as subtle as a 2x4 to the face. I'd love to be proven wrong and have it be Hook or Henry, but alas, it's TS;TW.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

And ugh...yes writers Rumple, we all know who you're talking about because the previous episode was about as subtle as a 2x4 to the face. I'd love to be proven wrong and have it be Hook or Henry, but alas, it's TS;TW.

 

You mean Regina? No, not gonna happen. If it's Regina, then you should bring in Snowing, Leroy and reunite Arthur with his sword, since they helped with the Fury. Regina was no Savior, and she offered her life for Robin's because she was trying to pay the price of magic in Camelot. 

 

If she has a debt to pay, paying it or trying to pay it doesn't make her a hero, she's just settling a score.

 

Other than Emma sending Regina on her way to death which she nearly succeeded, the stuff that transpired in 5x02 really doesn't make Regina anywhere close to being anything.

Edited October 8, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

You mean Regina? No, not gonna happen. If it's Regina, then you should bring in Snowing, Leroy and reunite Arthur with his sword, since they helped with the Fury. Regina was no Savior, and she offered her life for Robin's because she was trying to pay the price of magic in Camelot. 

 

Sure, if you look at that scene logically, we should come to that conclusion. Unfortunately, we have to look at the scene through the writers' lenses and Leroy straight up said, "Standing up to that monster proved one thing... if anyone's gonna save this town, it's you." It doesn't matter that everyone helped save the day against the Fury, the only thing the audience was supposed to take away from that scene is that Regina is the one who's going to save the town. So I could definitely see Hook being the red herring in this upcoming episode and Emma thinks he's the hero who needs to pull the sword, but by the end of 5A, I'm guessing it's going to be the new quasi-savior who actually pulls it out.

[ABitOFluff]

Ok, I've been proven wrong before, but I can't think of how Emma's hero be anyone but Hook right now. Don't forget, she told him he had a check mark in the hero column, and after his death in the AU, he said that it was "all in a day's work for a hero".

 

I know a lot of us tend to think that the writers are all about Regina, but I do think that Emma thinks of Hook as much more of a hero than Regina is.

Edited October 8, 2015 by ABitOFluff

[Rumsy4]

Mindworm!Rumple must have a hidden agenda. What exactly does "snuffing out the light" entail? I always wanted Rumple to teach Emma how to do magic--I didn't expect it to be like this! haha Looks like Robert Carlyle's having fun finally working with a regular cast member as opposed random guest star of the season. 

 

ETA: Maybe Hook is the one who went "full hero" in Camelot. That's why Dark Swan/Mindworm!Rumple immediately jumps to him as the first choice to pull the sword from the stone (that sounds dirty--heh).

Edited October 8, 2015 by Rumsy4

[ABitOFluff]

ETA: Maybe Hook is the one who went "full hero" in Camelot. That's why Dark Swan/Mindworm!Rumple immediately jumps to him as the first choice to pull the sword from the stone (that sounds dirty--heh).

And that's what I'm thinking. If you go by the writers' language, Regina might be the "saviour", but all the hero labels of recent have pointedly been used on or by Hook.

[tennisgurl]

 

Anyone else feeling that Killian is the hero Emma needs to pull Excalibur from the stone (based off the sneak peek)?  I want it to be him so badly, but I'm afraid to hope.  Ya know, TS;TW.

Killian Jones, the Hero we deserve!

 

I feel like this is all going to involve some kind of call back to The Thing You Love the Most, where Emma will have to sacrifice Hook for ultimate power (or getting the sword) and she wont be able to go through with it. Or, God forbid, Regina convinces her not to do it.

[YaddaYadda]

Emma had a whole line during her tearing Regina a new one, "Now you're going to be heroic? Now life is precious to you?"

Regina isn't going to try and convince anyone since it seems she did something terrible enough for Emma to say something like that. Regina seemed very surprised by that.

Killian - Siege Perillous according to someone I know. I totally missed it, but dagger is the Holy Grail. Both Killian and Arthur have been searching for it at one point or another for different reasons. Killian is going to be Once's version of Galahad who put a sword back together.

She knows more about this than I do. But the gist of it is that seat at the round table is the reason Rumple/Dark Swan believe or might believe Killian is the person needed for the sword, and this is what they find out about him in Camelot.

Edited October 8, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[PixiePaws1]

Killian - Siege Perillous according to someone I know. I totally missed it, but dagger is the Holy Grail. Both Killian and Arthur have been searching for it at one point or another for different reasons. Killian is going to be Once's version of Galahad who put a sword back together.

She knows more about this than I do. But the gist of it is that seat at the round table is the reason Rumple/Dark Swan believe or might believe Killian is the person needed for the sword, and this is what they find out about him in Camelot.

wouldn't it bookend nicely if he drove the sword back into the stone as it is now. ...

[LizaD]

But this episode is Charming's centric isn't it? Also I think Siege Perilous is referring to the chalice that Charming had at one point in filming spoilers and the quest is the one him and Arthur go on in the flashback. But notice he's only going to fetch it so that Woegina can yet again be the one to save the day.

There's no way Hook is THE hero and this early? Not a chance. Emma thinks he's her hero cause she's not pissed at him.

I'm surprised A&E aren't writing the finale and that they're giving it to the newer writers to boot.

[Rumsy4]

I would DIE if Hook is chosen to sit on the Siege Perilous! haha It does make sense for it to be him if they are going with Dagger=Grail. Maybe Killian rescuers Charms and Arthur when they get themselves into trouble over their little side-quest, whatever that it. That will teach Charming to forget his bro' Hook and hang with Arthur. ;-)

[YaddaYadda]

But this episode is Charming's centric isn't it? Also I think Siege Perilous is referring to the chalice that Charming had at one point in filming spoilers and the quest is the one him and Arthur go on in the flashback. But notice he's only going to fetch it so that Woegina can yet again be the one to save the day.

There's no way Hook is THE hero and this early? Not a chance. Emma thinks he's her hero cause she's not pissed at him.

I'm surprised A&E aren't writing the finale and that they're giving it to the newer writers to boot.

Siege means seat, not cup. The episode is very likely David in the present/Lancelot in the past, and yeah, the assumption is that that seat around the table is David's, but there's really something to what she said.

Last week, with the title, we, or some thought this was strictly about Regina, but Emma is the one who paid the price.

This is a prophecy and it has moving parts.

it's something to take into consideration.

[KAOS Agent]

 

 

Emma had a whole line during her tearing Regina a new one, "Now you're going to be heroic? Now life is precious to you?"

Regina isn't going to try and convince anyone since it seems she did something terrible enough for Emma to say something like that. Regina seemed very surprised by that.

 

I thought this might apply to perhaps Regina using the dagger to "protect" Emma and not allowing her to use her magic to heal someone. So Emma is forced by Regina to let someone die. That kind of thing would destroy Emma in multiple ways and while it would be understandable on Regina's part, it would also be hella hypocritical since she pressed Emma to save Robin.

 

I am finding it really funny that they had a scene with Regina using Emma to fix her problems in Camelot and blaming Coma!Rumpel for all of her problems in 5.02 when we know that she tells Emma that she doesn't get to be selfish and there's always a choice in 5.5.

[Souris]

I thought this might apply to perhaps Regina using the dagger to "protect" Emma and not allowing her to use her magic to heal someone. So Emma is forced by Regina to let someone die. That kind of thing would destroy Emma in multiple ways and while it would be understandable on Regina's part, it would also be hella hypocritical since she pressed Emma to save Robin.

 

WHOA, would that be crazy hypocritical of Regina. So perfectly in character.

[LizaD]

Siege means seat, not cup.

I know what Siege Perilous means, the Seat that is reserved for the knight who would be successful in the quest for the Holy Grail. In most legends it is a chalice or bowl of some sort. That's what I mean, that the seat title here is referring to the quest for the chalice and Charming has a chalice at some point this episode. In some stories that knight is Percival and others, Galahad who is Lancelot's kid.

Sure the Holy Grail could be the dagger but then again Siege Perilous could mean a quest for something other than the Holy Grail too in Once verse.

Last week, with the title, we, or some thought this was strictly about Regina, but Emma is the one who paid the price.

I'm not sure the writers see it that way. Emma clearly said it was Woegina's price. I mean these are the writers who thought Woegina controlling Emma with the dagger was hilarious so and that Woegina stepped up big time to "protect" Emma so.....

[Souris]

This theory on tumblr is pretty much like Serena's from earlier: The Dark One is basically tricking Emma into unifying the dagger & Excalibur. Since the dagger is what tethers the darkness to a person, unifying it with Excalibur could cause the darkness to untether and become Evil Flubber again.

 

That could join with my theory about everybody then joining hands and taking on a piece of the darkness to dilute it.

 

Also, it looks like Gold has woken up just in time for RB to suck up time in 5x10, ostensibly the winter finale.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Souris

[Serena]

But this episode is Charming's centric isn't it? Also I think Siege Perilous is referring to the chalice that Charming had at one point in filming spoilers and the quest is the one him and Arthur go on in the flashback. But notice he's only going to fetch it so that Woegina can yet again be the one to save the day.

There's no way Hook is THE hero and this early? Not a chance. Emma thinks he's her hero cause she's not pissed at him.

I agree. I think Emma thinks Hook is the hero, because he wasn't part of the people who screwed her over in Camelot, but in fact it's her daddy.

[Souris]

I don't think anybody is going to be pulling Excalibur out of the stone in this ep. It seems more like an end-of-arc moment.

[RadioGirl27]

I wonder if this weird group of Merida, Ruby, Mulan, Arthur, Wicked & Hook is on some sort of quest? Perhaps to get something to help Emma?

When has Colin filmed with this group? I thought it was only Merida, Ruby, Mulan, Arthur and Zelena.

About the sword, the logical first option would be Arthur or Charming, if they want it to be a regular. But, yeah, it's not going to be Hook. And definitely not in episode 3.

Edited October 8, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[retrograde]

In response to episode confusion, Adam says "I'm sure we'll explain shortly."

[Serena]

What does that even mean?!?

[Mari]

What does that even mean?!?

 

 

We're going to have filler episodes where the characters run around for several episodes, and then it'll turn out a lot of it was pointless, and Regina saves the day.

[YaddaYadda]

Sure the Holy Grail could be the dagger but then again Siege Perilous could mean a quest for something other than the Holy Grail too in Once verse.

 

But that's the thing, right? They're not doing the Holy Grail.

 

Arthur's quest is to make Excalibur whole. In order to do that, he needs the dagger. Emma's quest is to make Excalibur whole, so she needs both pieces as well. 

 

Excalibur is Once's Holy Grail. 

 

I don't think anybody is going to be pulling Excalibur out of the stone in this ep. It seems more like an end-of-arc moment.

No one is pulling the sword out of the stone in this episode. That's should be the culmination of everything. But we should find out who Emma is zeroing in and why it has to be that person.

 

I think that if a person sits in Siege Perilous and they're not supposed to be theirs, they get incinerated. 

 

The Dark One is basically tricking Emma into unifying the dagger & Excalibur. Since the dagger is what tethers the darkness to a person, unifying it with Excalibur could cause the darkness to untether and become Evil Flubber again.

 

Okay, so we've always known the writers lack imagination.

 

Sword = Sorcerer's hat.

 

I thought this might apply to perhaps Regina using the dagger to "protect" Emma and not allowing her to use her magic to heal someone. So Emma is forced by Regina to let someone die. That kind of thing would destroy Emma in multiple ways and while it would be understandable on Regina's part, it would also be hella hypocritical since she pressed Emma to save Robin.

 

Especially since Regina gets to have her happy ending because of Emma's sacrificing herself to the darkness the first time and then taking one step closer to embracing the darkness because she saved Regina? 

 

The whole I'm not taking someone else's life to save Robin's really set Emma off on the whole "Now you're being heroic? Now you think life is precious?" 

 

The stuff that went down in Camelot sounds very interesting.

[PixiePaws1]

I am wondering if they actually succeeded in freeing Emma in Camelot with a remade Excalibur but it was aborted/reversed. If freeing her would come at the cost of someone's life and they tried it without telling Emma the true price of freeing her...she was so angry she took back the Darkness and the dagger was made again and Excalibur gets put back in the stone.

Edited October 8, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[sharky]

Going back a bit in this thread, I'm pretty convinced that Hook is the hero they need. Think about Hook and Regina in Emma's house. Regina was just wandering around aimlessly, but Hook specifically seemed to be drawn to the cellar, as if there was something pulling him there. And then of course, Emma came just in time with rum to break him out of his trance. He may not know, but she knows he knows (if that makes sense).

 

And no, Excalibur won't be pulled out this week. I wonder if some of the scenes we've seen with Emma and Hook holding hands may be Emma trying to seduce Hook to make him pull the sword out. And perhaps he's playing along because he knows that's what she's doing, and he and Belle are looking through the library to see figure out how to do all this without hurting anyone. Because seriously, I need more Hook and Belle bromance.

[YaddaYadda]

If Gold is out of the coma, it's in time to warn them about the sword and the dagger. He should remember or at least know about it.

 

I wanna know if Emma as the Dark One will last the whole season. That's what I really wanna know.

[Souris]

When has Colin filmed with this group? I thought it was only Merida, Ruby, Mulan, Arthur and Zelena.

 

Leaf Lady posted a pic from filming of his hook in a tree, as well as Colin with Liam from the same day as the others posted pics of them filming. I don't know how much he's been filming with them, or if there were separate filming groups or what.

 

Have we seen any spoilers about Robert Carlyle filming as Gold? I read that he was among those filming at Regina's house, but was wondering if in the filming timeline, he's still in a coma or not?

 

 

There was a spoiler from last night about Robert/Emilie filming with Lana, Gosh, Jmo, Colin and Jared at Regina's house.

[Curio]

I wanna know if Emma as the Dark One will last the whole season. That's what I really wanna know.

 

Didn't A&E give an interview recently where they hinted towards Dark Swan being a full-season arc? I'll see if I can find the exact quote...

[Rumsy4]

There was a spoiler from last night about Robert/Emilie filming with Lana, Gosh, Jmo, Colin and Jared at Regina's house.

That could still be coma!Rumple or Mindworm!Rumple. How odd: they keep isolating Bobby from the rest of the cast one way or the other. He's off interacting with either Shadow!Belle or Zelena or QoD or just one other regular cast member like Hook or Emma.

[Souris]

They've been cagey, but I got the impression that they've hinted it won't be the full season. It sounded to me like at least part of the season will be Emma dealing with what she did as DS. Or that could be wishful thinking on my part.

[Free]

They've been cagey, but I got the impression that they've hinted it won't be the full season. It sounded to me like at least part of the season will be Emma dealing with what she did as DS. Or that could be wishful thinking on my part.

 

I hope not because they've already struggled to fill up half a season with some of their other arcs.

[kili]

If Gold is out of the coma, it's in time to warn them about the sword and the dagger. He should remember or at least know about it.

 

If Gold knew about the sword/dagger combination, why did he traipse off to Camlot to get just a guantlet? Shouldn't he have gotten the sword as well? Even if he didn't want to wipe out all the light, he would have wanted something so intrinsincly related to his dagger to be kept close by.

 

This is the number one reason that I think that Head Rumple isn't real Rumple. I think that Head Rumple is somebody else and that he's/she's just rpretending to be in Emma's head (and staying invinsible to everybody else).

 

Besides, Spinner Rumple may have been more ready to embrace the evilness, but don't tell me he wouldn't have started chatting with himself when Zosa started telling him he needed to kill Bae. We never saw Rumple arguing with himself in his early Dark One days.

 

Or this all could be a  retcon.

 

About the last episode of the fall season being the finale? I'm pretty sure they are setting it up to be the cliffhanger so we'll all tune in for 5B. 5A won't be resolved in 5A.

Edited October 8, 2015 by kili

[YaddaYadda]

Can anyone just take the sword though? I mean Emma has it, but it's stuck in the bolder, so it's of no use since she can't pull it.

 

I'm pretty sure the sword will have its own set of rules that we are going to find out about. And then we'll all be like, "huh?WTF?!?"

[kili]

Can anyone just take the sword though?

 

I think that Arthur cannot because he would otherwise be the obvoius one to do so.  Something he does from the time he originally pulled the sword and the time it gets put into the rock makes him not heroic or pure enough to do it again.

 

That new sneak peak...what is Emma doing? Hook looks pretty wary.