Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

Wouldn't that be more Cruella's style?

They're both psychos. Birds of a feather...

[Joanh23]

My take on why the S3 finale is on the list is coz this is also when Emma completely accepted Snow & Charming as her parents - she started calling them mom and dad after these eps. And then Best Laid Plans is in there to remind us how devastated Emma was by her parents lies, and also to show how far Charming & Snow are willing to go to protect Emma...

[YaddaYadda]

Season 3 finale was about fixing what CS had messed up, putting her parents back on track to meet each other.

 

I watched both 1x01 and 1x22 yesterday.

 

1x01 drew parallels between Emma and Henry in that she's never had a family and felt alone and he had a mother and felt alone and unloved. If Henry felt loved by Regina, if he had friends, which they made a point to say he didn't, MM wouldn't have given him the book and he likely would never have gone to find Emma. There were things I had forgotten. One of them was the scene at the castle where Emma is trying to talk to Henry and tells him about what happened to her. And there was something else I noticed from this episode. When Emma drops Henry off the first time, When she walks away, she looks towards his bedroom window which is something she does in one of the BTS of 5x05. (I just realized how this episode with the circumstances of Emma's birth goes with my crack theory)

 

1x22. I had completely forgotten that Graham was in this episode and that he had told David that he had given up his heart to save Snow. I'm assuming David did not take it literally, but David likely knows exactly how Graham died. I know it's David and there are jokes about how pretty but dumb he is, but seriously, it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together.

 

1x22 is straight up about true love, true love potion, true love kiss, the drop of TL Rumple put on the parchment where the curse was written. 1x22 is the TLK that awoke Snow and Henry. And then there's Rumple tricking Emma into doing his bidding by bringing the true love potion back to the surface and that oh so important line "Magic is Power".

Edited September 8, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[LizaD]

I don't think the episodes to watch is all that deep or spoilery. Some ABC marketing intern probably picked them, not the writers. It looks like the criteria is 2 episodes per season and they more or less are action/adventure Emma centric-ish. Cause who wants to watch a "savior" sit on their ass and do nothing? The 4th season episodes are self-explanatory to explain the Dark Swan stuff. I believe prior to S4 premiere they did something similar and most of the episodes were also Emma centric and I think a lot of them are even the same as this list. Maybe the intern is an Emma fan or ABC is under the mistaken impression that the show is about Emma.

 

Anyhow it looks like they find Merlin in ep. 5 and he's part of the crew thereafter? Still think he's bad and if they're really that into color themes, he is in black. If nothing else comes out of this half-arc, at least they all got some pretty new clothes. Also maybe Merida is the Anna of the arc, as in she'll ultimately be the one to save the entire day, in which case she'll have to have some kind of relationship to the original DO.

[mjgchick]

It really does seem like who ever chose those episodes are just Emma fans. I never got the impression that they could be about what's going on in this season. These are all episodes I don't even hate so it feels like it's just an intern randomly putting these episodes to get us hype for the new season.

[YaddaYadda]

Did they do this last year? And if so where can I find a list? It's easy enough to take a look through the list if they gave one. Personally, I haven't watched anything from season 1 in a really, really long time (try 3 years at least) and I forgot how good 1x22 really was. And I've been saying for a while that 2x06 will be relevant and not necessarily because of the dreamcatcher either, so I'm glad to see it on the list. 

 

Those episodes aren't just Emma episodes. They're Captain Swan and Henry episodes as well. I forgot how cute Henry was. I don't know why kids have to grow up.

Edited September 8, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KAOS Agent]

Considering Snow appears to be using the dagger in the promo (note: I don't watch promos or peeks, but I've seen a gif of it), I wonder how that ties into Ginny saying at Comic Con that Snow should not have control of the dagger. Does that mean that Snow does something stupid with it that upsets/harms Emma or would it be more that Snow can't use it when she really needs to or does she do something really stupid like throw Emma under the bus because Grumpy is threatened? The cast knew very little beyond the first episode at that point, so I have to think that Ginny's comment was tied to something that happens in the premiere. I have all kinds of issues with the use of the dagger to control anyone, so I'm really, really hoping the dagger isn't used to control the Dark One by Emma's own family.

[YaddaYadda]

Fall Spoilers 

 

"There's a real driving force behind what Emma is doing and why,"

"Emma [before] was a very smart person who did things for a reason, and that translates. It's not a rampant evil that's been unleashed."

"Emma is going to do something particularly bad,"

 

All the more reason for those near and dear to get thee to Camelot and find Merlin, posthaste!

So she's NOT in Camelot?

 

The people of Camelot, after all, "have a similar goal to ours."

Are they trying to find Merlin too?

 

while everyone is advised to be frightened of pregnant Zelena

They're about to wyatt Halliwell that baby, aren't they? I get that they made Rebecca a regular this season, but is her character and baby really all that important?

[HoodlumSheep]

Full moon? The bonus spoiler is all sorts of confusing. Is Ruby gonna be back for an episode or not???? Otherwise the only moon related stuff I can think of is Pan when they moved the moon.

Or is it supposed to be some sort of witch? I don't know.

*apparently the moon has a bunch of superstitions involving child-birth, along with the "lunacy" thing. Maybe Zelena's gonna pop out her baby during the full moon???

Edited September 8, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[mjgchick]

So Emma being the Dark Swan is basically a red herring? She does something bad but it sounds like what she does bad she thinks it's for the greater good right?

Ugh if they Wyatt Halliwell this baby.

[Serena]

I'm sorry. I know this is the most unpopular of opinions - but I love freaky, magical babies. I loved it on Charmed. I love it on The Originals. It's my crack. Bring it on. I hope the baby is, like, multicolored. MAKE IT BLUE. MAKE IT PINK. etc. Baby Neal has been such a disappointment on this front. But alas, with that name, he was bound to be one.

 

Emma doing something bad but for a specific reason, non-crazy pants reason (see: "You're getting married on this road and this road is mine!") is what I expected all along.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Serena

[YaddaYadda]

I'm sorry. I know this is the most unpopular of opinions - but I love freaky, magical babies.

 

I like magical babies enough, but my comment was about how that blast we saw from Zelena could actually be from the baby instead of Zelena. Magical baby from the womb for a psycho. baby might be trying to protect crazy mom. 

 

In the magical thread, I don't remember who it was (WritingWrongs maybe?) about how Emma came into her powers. They never explained that. Zelena was born with magic from a non magical social climbing mother and a jerk father and now her rape baby is going to be uber special apparently and I just don't know.

 

Unless they're really going down the road of the baby turning into some kind of a mass murderer or something in which case, that baby will likely have a foil.

Edited September 8, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KingOfHearts]

When I heard full moon, I automatically thought werewolf. Either Red is back or Granny is finally getting her own centric. She is part of the New Nevengers, anyway. Maybe she'll fall in love with one of the Knights of the Round Table... then there will be tons of angst because her werewolf powers come back.

Edited September 8, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

Emma doing something bad but for a specific reason, non-crazy pants reason (see: "You're getting married on this road and this road is mine!") is what I expected all along.

Yeah, but I don't like the idea of Emma doing something bad to her loved ones and that is what Eddy says:

Even so, "Emma is going to do something particularly bad," co-creator Eddy Kitsis assures, "and to the people she loves."

[AnotherCastle]

Sneak Peek of Belle's Camelot dress thanks to Ginnifer: https://instagram.com/p/7W4FjwFWbG/

[Serena]

Belle's dress looks very cool/elegant. I like the shape and I like the color, but I'm not sure about the fabric. Say no to velvet.
 

Yeah, but I don't like the idea of Emma doing something bad to her loved ones and that is what Eddy says:

But it still should be for a reason. As long as she doesn't just start murdering random people for no reason, I can deal with it. Actually, the fact that it's to her loved ones probably means that whatever "bad" thing she does it's not murder. None of Emma's loved ones are getting killed. So maybe it's imprisonment, or curses, or whatever - but nothing unreparable that will haunt her forever after the arc is done.

 

Also, "particularly bad"? Those are the people that called the Shattered Mirror curse what the Worst Curse Of All. Maybe she gives them a really bad itching curse?

Edited September 8, 2015 by Serena

[mjgchick]

She probably piss on their food. Wait knowing this show Emma probably spilled secrets about everyone. That's it.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Yeah, but I don't like the idea of Emma doing something bad to her loved ones and that is what Eddy says:

It only makes me think of the eggnapping plot. Emma does something terrible because of contrived reasons and she only does it because the writers want her to look bad. It's not a natural step in her character development - it's a plot device to manipulate the audience's opinion.

[YaddaYadda]

I still think whatever she does has to do with episode 5x05 where she feels she doesn't have a choice.

 

This show is all kinds of bad when it comes to doing something horrible. Regina has a whole village butchered and let's never mention it again. The Shattered Sight curse is the worst thing EVAH, so yeah...the scales for their horrible things is just, I don't know, weird.

[Serena]

Yes. She probably steals Regina's nail polish. That's how underwhelming their "worst thing EVER" things are. That will need a 22-episodes redemption arc.

[Shanna Marie]

Emma might use her power to do something to/for one of her loved ones for what she perceives as their own good, when it's actually something that's painful for them or that isn't something they want, or she may act rashly to help them without knowing the whole story, and that ends up screwing up something they were trying to do.

[HoodlumSheep]

Belle's outfit looks nice and simple. Nice color. Velvet is sketchy when it comes to keeping it clean-looking, but I'm sure they'll have plenty of lint brushes on standby. It looks better than Regina's at least. Regina's red dress looks like it's going to swallow her whole.

Edited September 8, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

That green is EdR's color for sure. And velvet is also what the actress who plays Guinevere is wearing, so it might be something Camelot related? 

[scenicbyway]

Yes. She probably steals Regina's nail polish. That's how underwhelming their "worst thing EVER" things are. That will need a 22-episodes redemption arc.

The thing is, Emma still has to be redeemable so she can't be as dark as Rumple, or as evil as Regina.  She's got to be somewhere in between evil Snow (little scary) and evil Charming (just wears eyeliner and doesn't smile as much).  Maybe she'll force everyone to eat cold grilled cheeses and cold onion rings?!

[HoodlumSheep]

*weeps because I just heard that Ruby's coming back for multiple episodes according to a tvline article* ;_;

But that's considered a non-spoiler, correct? It's a casting announcement. So it should be mentioned on the media thread, right?

Praise the tv gods! If she's back for multiple episodes, then we're guaranteed at least two scenes with her. I wonder if she'll get regulated to diner-sitting though.

Why'd Adam make a fuss over the possibility of Ruby returning if it's true?

Edited September 8, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[kili]

Also, "particularly bad"? Those are the people that called the Shattered Mirror curse what the Worst Curse Of All. Maybe she gives them a really bad itching curse?

 

Maybe she does the jelly-leg curse on them...or the bat bogey hex. Oh...oh...I know. Since Young Eva tripping Young Cora was the worst thing ever, maybe Dark One Emma puts a whoopee cushion under Snow's chair and  cellophane over the toilet in Grannie's - Hook ends up the victim. Worst of all, she puts a plastic spider in Regina's crypt and it accidentally gets cooked into a love potion for Robin who ends up looking like a cat for a week. Ruby keeps chasing him out of the diner.

Edited September 8, 2015 by kili

[KAOS Agent]

They're tired of hearing people ask where Ruby is all the time, so they're bringing her back for Emma to kill while Regina tries valiantly but fails to protect her. Saint Regina is canonized while Emma is a completely unredeemable villain forever. That's pretty much where my thought processes are going. My expectations are rock bottom at this point.

[YaddaYadda]

That's pretty much where my thought processes are going.

 

Your thoughts suck some seriously large monkey balls. Now all I can think about is them bringing Ruby back to kill her off because some writers can be vindictive as hell. I really hope that's not the case for A&E and that they're bringing her back because she has some kind of an actual story, like supporting Snow with whom she happens to be great friends. I mean Ruby/Snow friendship makes more sense than Regina/Snow which is probably the reason Ruby was shoved to the side in the first place anyway.

[kili]

They're tired of hearing people ask where Ruby is all the time, so they're bringing her back for Emma to kill while Regina tries valiantly but fails to protect her.

 

OMG. Don't put that out in the universe!!!! Undo! Undo!

[Souris]

They're tired of hearing people ask where Ruby is all the time, so they're bringing her back for Emma to kill while Regina tries valiantly but fails to protect her. Saint Regina is canonized while Emma is a completely unredeemable villain forever. That's pretty much where my thought processes are going. My expectations are rock bottom at this point.

 

OK, I actually had the exact same thought! But I wasn't going to say it anywhere.

[HoodlumSheep]

*hisses* A&E would have to fortify that writer's room if they were aiming for that. If they brought Ruby back just to kill her I think they'd be in for an angry mob pounding at their doors.

I'd be fine with the Dark Swan possibly injuring Ruby to some degree, but offing Ruby would be the dumbest dumb.

[myril]

*hisses* A&E would have to fortify that writer's room if they were aiming for that. If they brought Ruby back just to kill her I think they'd be in for an angry mob pounding at their doors.

I'd be fine with the Dark Swan possibly injuring Ruby to some degree, but offing Ruby would be the dumbest dumb.

 

At least they couldn't ruin her then further. It's not like they've proven so far to make finally good use of a character when they bring them back, although no guarantee there, still can ruin things in hindsight.. Glad for Meghan Ory to get some screentime though.

[Mari]

I'd be fine with the Dark Swan possibly injuring Ruby to some degree, but offing Ruby would be the dumbest dumb.

Not trying to start a fight--just curious.

 

Why?

 

She hasn't had more than five minutes of screen time in years, and her previous role as Snow's friend has pretty much been taken over by Regina, and given the storytelling in the last season and a half, she's not going to be allowed to tell Regina anything too ego-damaging without being labeled evil.

 

As much as I don't want Emma killing anyone, I don't see how it would cause much disruption to the Ruby fans, simply because the show doesn't even really acknowledge she's even gone, most of the time.   Emma killing Ruby would at least be a truly dark action, unlike some of the other "evils" the White family have committed.

[regularlyleaded]

They're tired of hearing people ask where Ruby is all the time, so they're bringing her back for Emma to kill while Regina tries valiantly but fails to protect her. Saint Regina is canonized while Emma is a completely unredeemable villain forever. That's pretty much where my thought processes are going. My expectations are rock bottom at this point.

I can totally seeing these writers doing that. Though, my money is Red being back to be Snowflake's new babysitter (since Belle is running around with a jar and sidekicking Merida) and to tell Snow that she's the best mom ever. It would be these writers style to take a cool character like Red (who can transform into a wolf!) and relegate her to show wet nurse.

[HoodlumSheep]

Not trying to start a fight--just curious.

Why?

Mainly because it would upset fans for her to be brought back to just be killed;unlike Neal, most people liked Ruby. Also, i'd prefer her to be sent off to the world of no color with Whale instead. Have her go to the world with Whale to help search for his brother or something. They seemed to have connected on some level. You'd be effectively killing two birds with one stone. Whale hardly shows up anymore either. A&E are going to have to start tying up story lines at some point, preferably without killing all the secondary characters off just to create some "drama."

Killing her off with how little screen time she's gotten over the past 2 seasons just seems like bad story telling to me.

Edited September 8, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Delphi]

Well, it kinda would. Ruby hasn't been seen in a year and was only on the show sporadically in late season 3. Casual fans probably forgot that Ruby was supposed to be a main character so it wouldn't really make sense to kill a random character that we haven't seen.

It'll have no effect on casual viewers and a bad effect on longtime fans of the show. Emma would be better off killing a dwarf.

[HoodlumSheep]

But aren't longtime fans the only ones left at this point? So killing off Ruby seems like it wouldn't be the best move.

Anyways, whatever happens I'm sure will cause rage and/or frustration somehow. I'll just have to hope that that they treat Ruby well.

[YaddaYadda]

What's Ruby's role going to be? Sounding board? Something similar to what she was in the flashbacks with Snow? Ruby's story has been all flashbacks. In the present she's only ever been the waitress in the short shorts.

[maryle]

I like Red !! I'm happy she is coming back for somes episodes and really hope she will not be killed by DS.

I saw the promo and despite all I know about the show I really wants to see the premiere!

Actually, so far it seems I will like most the episode of this arc.

Just hoping Hook does have a SL even (minor one) and save Emma is a team effort. I will be a happy camper, not asking much!

[Delphi]

But aren't longtime fans the only ones left at this point? So killing off Ruby seems like it wouldn't be the best move.

Anyways, whatever happens I'm sure will cause rage and/or frustration somehow. I'll just have to hope that that they treat Ruby well.

I was agreeing with you in that it would be bad storytelling. I just worded it poorly. My bad.

I'm incredibly excited for Red and hope she actually gets something to do and not get murdered.

I think there has to be some sort of fans that haven't been watching since the beginning. The show is so different it had alienate a lot of the audience.

[Curio]

They could have Dark Swan make a secret shady deal with Merlin for reasons she thinks are justified, but Ruby in wolf form overhears this evil plan and goes off to warn the others about how far down the path of darkness Emma has fallen. But Dark Swan stops Ruby at the last second, crushes her heart before she can tell the secret, and then everyone thinks she died of natural causes. An episode later, everyone will have moved on past her death, and by the end of the season literally no one will care. But a couple seasons later, Ruby fans will still be pissed off and wanting retribution for their character's poorly-handled death.

[retrograde]

I think the bad thing Emma does will be related to the "love as a weapon" stuff the writers keep going on about. I think both Hook and Snowing would consider Emma manipulating their love for her to be huge betrayals.

[YaddaYadda]

This is what i'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around. It's not because I don't think she couldn't use their love against them, but rather, the how and what. How does she use it and what does she do? And why? Whatever I've come up with has made no sense.

 

We've seen Rumple do it to countless people to manipulate them into doing his bidding. How is she going to use their love for her against them? 

Edited September 9, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[daxx]

I believe that the love as a weapon will be her loved ones using love as a weapon against the darkness. More specifically Hook since he is the one who said it in the 4b premiere. They will use Emma's love to attack the darkness or diminish its effect.

[Curio]

This is what i'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around. It's not because I don't think she couldn't use their love against them, but rather, the how and what. How does she use it and what does she do? And why? Whatever I've come up with has made no sense.

 

Yeah, the "love is a dangerous weapon" quote is cool to say, but when you think about it too hard, it's like...what does that even mean? Will Emma pull a Zelena and trick Hook and her parents into telling Emma how much they love her to unlock some darkness spell that will make her an even more powerful Dark One? Or will it be more of a situation where Emma says "if you truly love me, you'll trust that I won't go dark" with the full intention of going dark anyways?

[YaddaYadda]

But to me, using love as a weapon is what Rumple did to Hook last season or how he used Regina's love for Daniel and her wanting to bring him back so badly that he basically sent her over the edge, or how he used David wanting to find Snow so badly that he did Rumple's work and put an egg inside a dragon at the risk of his own life. So, I don't know. Maybe I'm just being hard headed about it.

Edited September 9, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Dianthus]

YaddaYadda, on 08 Sept 2015 - 6:20 PM, said:

But to me, using love as a weapon is what Rumple did to Hook last season or how he used Regina's love for Daniel and her wanting to bring him back so badly that he basically sent her over the edge, or how he used David wanting to find Snow so badly that he did Rumple's work and put an egg inside a dragon at the risk of his own life. So, I don't know. Maybe I'm just being hard headed about it.

If imp!Rumple is inside Emma's head, he might trick her into doing something bad, while telling her it's for good reason(s).

[LizaD]

Yeah to Ruby coming back but no if she just comes back to get killed by DS. Snow is in desperate need of a buddy that doesn't feed on her soul and personality.

I think the scary pregnant Zelena is that the anti-magic cuff doesn't work anymore on account of the baby's magic. The cuff is holding her magic but not the fetus so she can still access her fetus' magic for her usage.

Those episodes aren't just Emma episodes. They're Captain Swan and Henry episodes as well.

There are no "just Emma" episodes in this series existence though. But the common thread-denominator in all of the episodes is Emma, is what I meant. 4-5 of the 8 could be considered Snowing episodes as well. 2 of them have a heavy focus on Rump, 2 on Neal etc.

And just in case people were still looking for last year's ABC must watch episodes, a quick search says it is on page 15 in our media thread. I gave them too much credit. I only thought most of the episodes were the same for this season but no, it is the EXACT same list, updated with the 2 new S4 episodes.

[mjgchick]

I can't believe y'all put Ruby as being one of Dark Swans victims out in the universe. Take it back, take it back.

[RadioGirl27]

They're tired of hearing people ask where Ruby is all the time, so they're bringing her back for Emma to kill while Regina tries valiantly but fails to protect her.

OK, I actually had the exact same thought! But I wasn't going to say it anywhere.

This makes the three of us, because that is exactly the first thing I thought.