Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[KingOfHearts]

I don't really worry too much about lack of spoilers for a specific character since this show uses so many indoor and studio scenes. The missing person could be in another plot that mostly takes place indoors. I'll do my complaining about character balancing after it airs. ;)

Edited August 29, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

Yeah i tend to wait until episodes air to lose it on why a storyline goes the way it goes. Even some spoilers that the media says happens doesn't happen because some (Talking to you Natalie.) don't even come true because they tow the line of biased and professionalism.

 

It is weird though that Hook doesn't seem to have a storyline that's his. At least last year we got at least something out of him and Rumple even if it turned to trash and his episode with Ursula but how do the show not use him when he's one of the most popular characters on the show even if he's not with Emma.

[retrograde]

Yeah, there have barely been any official spoilers about the main characters. Most of what we know has come from fans watching location shoots, which aren't very representative of episodes as a whole (though Charming and Hook especially have been in quite a lot of the shoots)

 

I just took a quick look over all the actual articles on TVLine, EW, etc since last season (many of which are barely spoilery), and my rough count is that the vast majority of them have been about Merida (but kind of not saying much) and Camelot (most of which are just casting), followed by Emma.

 

For what it's worth, I don't think Hook will have a storyline that is separate from Emma in 5A, but that makes sense. It'd be weird for him to be off having some other adventure when the woman he loves is turning into an evil monster. It would be nice if they give him his own thing in 5B, though. 

Edited August 29, 2015 by retrograde

[KingOfHearts]

 

It would be nice if they give him his own thing in 5B, though.

Part of me believes that his episode with Ursula is as deep as the writers want to go with his stories, unless it's really about another character. (Hook was supporting Rumple's in 4A, now Emma's.)

 

 

Just look at the way they wrote him last season, first with the hand and later with the heart, the first storyline had neither a build up or a pay off, and the second one lacked pay off, and I'm not talking only about Emma's reaction.

Hook's hand and heart were not about him, I agree. It was all about Rumple.

Edited August 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

It would be nice if they give him his own thing in 5B, though.

That's never going to happen. A&E don't care about him as an individual character. Just look at the way they wrote him last season, first with the hand and later with the heart, the first storyline had neither a build up or a pay off, and the second one lacked pay off, and I'm not talking only about Emma's reaction.

And really, 5B would be centered around Regina/Robin/Zelena/the baby.

[KAOS Agent]

Speaking of Zelena, has anyone seen Rebecca filming outside of the premiere? I'm curious about the baby plotline because that went over like a lead balloon and I don't see it carrying the back half of the season. You can't have the main plot only affect two characters. I suppose Zelena could escape and wreaking havoc, so everyone is threatened but that's 3B redux and really, really boring. I just can't see Emma being the Dark One for only a week, so significant time must pass and that baby's got to be born in 5A, right? 

[KingOfHearts]

 

I suppose Zelena could escape and wreaking havoc, so everyone is threatened but that's 3B redux and really, really boring.

It comes down to a major flaw in Zelena's character - she's a two-dimensional villain. There's no humanity behind her devilish grin. You can't really do anything with her besides connivance and mustache-twirling. The writers didn't leave any room for her to make relationships or picture goals that don't involve ruining everyone's happiness just for the sake of it. I'm not saying she should start on a redemption arc, just that she's not a full character. Scenery chewing is all she has going for her. 

Either's she set loose on the town or she's stuck pregnant in a cell throwing petty insults at Regina.

Edited August 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[snarkastic]

Maybe she's still in Camelot wrecking havoc and that's why Arthur and the gang go to Storybrooke?

[retrograde]

My guess is they'll sideline Zelena until 5B... or the end of 5A and whatever happens is what sets up 5B (maybe she gives birth to the next big bad?)

 

And really, 5B would be centered around Regina/Robin/Zelena/the baby.

Agreed, but they might deign to do a B-arc. There isn't much Emma and Hook and really any of the Charmings can have to do with that family mess. But perhaps more realistically 6A, yes.

[Curio]

I wish I could be more excited about Emma and Merlin battling each other with magic, but...I'm just so over the magical fights on this show. The CGI looks terrible, there are only a few characters who can participate in them while the boring non-magical people sit on the sidelines because the writers haven't allowed the good guys to develop magical weapons yet (even though those exist in the show's canon), and it completely goes against their whole "magic comes with a price" tagline. So, magic is apparently a very dangerous thing that you must pay for in some karmic way, except oh wait wouldn't it be super cool if Regina and Emma used their magic to battle an Ice Viking? Or a Chernabog? Or Merlin? Magical powers are awesome! Except wait, anyone else besides Emma and Regina who use magic are using it for nefarious reasons. You can't have it both ways, writers.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I wish I could be more excited about Emma and Merlin battling each other with magic, but...I'm just so over the magical fights on this show.

Well after the disappointing "showdown" between Regina and Zelena in 3x16 and the crappy dragon CGI in 4B that makes 1x22's look like LoTR, I would agree with that assessment.

Edited August 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[retrograde]

I'm a sucker for bad CGI, so I'm down with some magical battles. It seems pretty inevitable in a half-season all about Emma going dark, anyway. In this new interview with JMo for some Chinese show, she mentions having to think about different hand motions for "good" vs "bad" magic, so she must have already done some dark magic (unless she's repeating something Lana said, but it seems unlikely).

 

I don't care much for the character of Henry, but I find myself pleased that he finally has some fairytale clothes and a sword (does he know how to use a sword?). It just seems appropriate, especially for the little boy who was so obsessed with fairy tales.

[legaleagle53]

David gave Henry some basic lessons in swordfighting right after the curse broke, and he also started teaching him how to ride a horse (which he's shown doing in one of the most recent behind-the-scenes clips that has been posted:  

Edited August 30, 2015 by legaleagle53

[retrograde]

David gave Henry some basic lessons in swordfighting right after the curse broke

I only recalled them horsing around with wooden swords, but watching the scene again, Charming does promise to actually teach him swordfighting, so I guess that -- like all non-PLOT PLOT PLOT things -- happened off-screen.

[YaddaYadda]

So Merlin's life was ruined?

 

I'm assuming is telling the Dark One that and not Emma. If Merlin can see the future, why didn't he foresee that the Dark One would ruin his life?

 

Percival and Merlin have a one on one scene. So, I officially don't trust Percival. 

[Curio]

A man yelled “You ruined my life!” and I’m 99% sure it was Merlin. Now, the problem is I have no idea who he was telling that to. At first I thought Regina, since it was the two of them fighting, but when he said he was facing Emma, so he might as well have been talking to her.

 

"You ruined my life!" Why does that sound so familiar? Oh, right. It's the exact same line Regina said to Emma one year ago during the masterpiece episode 4x05. On the one hand, it would be karmic payback for Merlin to be screaming that line at Regina so she can get a taste of her own medicine (and to make up for the fact that Snow, Charming, and all of Storybrooke can never yell at her for ruining their lives). On the other hand, I really don't want Regina to have ties yet again to the main antagonist of the season. Let's spread the "Enchanted Forest 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon" to some other characters, shall we? But if Merlin is yelling that line towards Emma, I can't help but get PTSD flashbacks to 4x05, and since this is 5x05, it almost seems like an intentional parallel by the writers. Does that mean Emma is going to drop everything, call herself an idiot, apologize to Merlin, beg to be his friend, and then be flattered when he admits he doesn't want to kill her, too? (How in the hell did that actually happen last year?)

 

So, I officially don't trust Percival.

I don't know why, but once I saw a photo of who they cast as Percival, I immediately got the vibe that he'd be this season's weasily, backstabbing character.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Curio

[Writing Wrongs]

I thought Regina had trademarked "You ruined my life!"?

 

Who's the girl kissing Henry?

[YaddaYadda]

Who's the girl kissing Henry?

 

Violet. She's the daughter of one of the knights (who is also a single father, I don't know if that's important)

 

But if Merlin is yelling that line towards Emma, I can't help but get PTSD flashbacks to 4x05, and since this is 5x05, it almost seems like an intentional parallel by the writers. Does that mean Emma going to drop everything, call herself an idiot, apologize to Merlin, beg to be his friend, and then be flattered when he admits he doesn't want to kill her, too? (How in the hell did that actually happen last year?)

I know they called this episode Emma-centric, but it really isn't. It's very clearly about Henry with a heavy Regina presence because if it's all about Henry then Regina has to be there too.  And it's reminding me a lot of 4x05, because 4x05 last year introduced Lily, you know that lying girl Emma turned her back on. It was a set up episode for the eggnapping, Emma's falling out with her parents. There was also the whole Emma being browbeat again for doing the right thing and saving someone's life. So I'm guessing Regina calling Emma selfish is about Emma trying to do the right thing since it seems that 4x05 is the blueprint for 5x05.

 

I do think Merlin is talking to the Dark One inside of Emma that it ruined his life.  So I think the original Dark One, the one he tethered the darkness to was a woman and he was probably in love with her. i'm also willing to wager at this point that the person the darkness was tethered to was someone who was exactly like Emma, devoid of darkness and with the lightest magic ever.

 

I don't know why, but once I saw a photo of who they cast as Percival, I immediately got the vibe that he'd be this season's weasily, backstabbing character.

I don't know the actor. I know he was in Wayward Pines which I gave up on after 1 episode because I didn't understand it. 

 

I just find the whole thing odd. I don't know if this is the first time they laid eyes on Merlin, but given this "you ruined my life", I'm thinking it is.  

 

So Snowing are there in the first scene, and then they're gone.  So Snowing don't even get to meet Merlin it seems. You know who else isn't there? Hook.

And then Arthur, Emma, Henry, Regina are with Merlin

 

And the last scene they film is with Merlin and Percival. I think Percival has been doing Merlin's bidding and he's probably known all along where he was. This whole thing might even be a set up. 

 

Since we were talking about 4x05, this looks like the whole Sidney Glass "betrays" Regina and is now working for Ingrid. So if I'm following that logic, Percival is basically betraying his king and working for Merlin. We don't know if Merlin is good or has gone off the deep end, but if everyone including Arthur is looking for Merlin and Percival knows where he is, then that kind of constitutes a betrayal.  And I'm thinking that Percival might've done something very awful to his king (that he doesn't know about) on Merlin's behalf.

 

I know that some think Arthur is shady, but I don't know...in 5x04, one of the BTS reminded me of Emma.  We obviously don't know what Once is going for exactly when it comes to Arthur (but I don't think they're going to vilify him or Gwen) and they've already made it that Arthur/Gwen knew each other when they were children. I thought about this;

 

Emma 

• Taken out of the EF right after she's born
• Foster child
• bullied by foster brother Kevin
• has a destiny she knows nothing of

 

Arthur

• Taken away as a baby from his parents
• Foster child
• Bullied by foster brother Kay
• Has a destiny he knows nothing of

[RadioGirl27]

 

Violet. She's the daughter of one of the knights (who is also a single father, I don't know if that's important)

Knowing A&E, the mother was probably killed by Regina (but it was clearly the mother's fault, she jumped in front of Regina's fireballs) or one of the Charmings (who did it on purpose because she had seen what they did to Maleficent).

 

 

I just find the whole thing odd.

Why? Emma, Arthur and Regina were there and they are clearly the main characters this arc.

[Rumsy4]

On the one hand, it would be karmic payback for Merlin to be screaming that line at Regina so she can get a taste of her own medicine... But if Merlin is yelling that line towards Emma, I can't help but get PTSD flashbacks to 4x05, and since this is 5x05, it almost seems like an intentional parallel by the writers. Does that mean Emma going to drop everything, call herself an idiot, apologize to Merlin, beg to be his friend, and then be flattered when he admits he doesn't want to kill her, too? (How in the hell did that actually happen last year?)

 

Whether Merlin is yelling at Regina or Emma, it is definitely an unpleasant callback to the infamous 4:05 episode. If Merlin thinks Regina ruined his life, it has to be connected to the Dark Curse somehow. If he is yelling at Emma, then may be he is talking to the Darkness within Emma. Which is weird. Maybe its harder to defeat the Darkness when it is tethered to a person with the "Lightest of Light" magic. 

[mjgchick]

This episode sounds like ass.

[Dianthus]

mjgchick, on 30 Aug 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

This episode sounds like ass.

LOL. Straight and to the point. I like it.

[Souris]

This episode sounds like ass.

 

Yes it does. That pretty much sums it up.

[HoodlumSheep]

Well after the disappointing "showdown" between Regina and Zelena in 3x16 and the crappy dragon CGI in 4B that makes 1x22's look like LoTR, I would agree with that assessment.

I think the Jafar vs Amara battle in Wonderland sets the bar for Once's magic wizard duels. Easily better than the Evil vs. Wicked nonsense. It was still the crappy Once cgi, but at least there were snakes! And mirror shards!

Edited August 30, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Mari]

I think the Jafar vs Amara battle in Wonderland sets the bar for Once's magic wizard duels. Easily better than the Evil vs. Wicked nonsense. It was still the crappy Once cgi, but at least there were snakes! And mirror shards!

I wrote the CGI off as being just the way things look in Wonderland.  It's not exactly a normal place.  But, you're right--that was a good magic fight.

 

You know, if the Darkness was originally Merlin's, and Merlin was originally a super True Love Magic baby like Emma--that could cause some problems if they're trying to separate her from it.  

 

It could mean it's not only in a magic person, but in a magic person who it feels like it belongs to?

[retrograde]

This episode sounds like ass.

Because part of it involves Regina? Because a couple of out-of-context quotes?

[KAOS Agent]

I'll take option C - It involves a lot of Henry. That's generally not the best sign. Otherwise, I reserve judgment on the ep.

[mjgchick]

Yeah, just way to much Henry for my taste. I also still get terrible flashbacks to the last time someone uttered "You've ruined my life."

[RadioGirl27]

Because part of it involves Regina? Because a couple of out-of-context quotes?

If you combine this (and all that Henry) with what we have learned from the previous 90 episodes of the show, yeah, this episode doesn't look very promising.

[Curio]

Because part of it involves Regina? Because a couple of out-of-context quotes?

 

I don't think we give ourselves enough credit for predicting future plot lines in this thread. I know that it's always best to "reserve judgment" until the episode airs, but 80-90% of the things we discuss in here are pretty accurate compared to the real show. Sure, many of the quotes and behind the scenes accounts are out of context, but we also have a fairly decent understanding of the common patterns the writers like to use and which characters they tend to favor. I knew going into 4B there was a 99% chance I would hate it based on the spoilers, and I was definitely proven right. 

 

But yes, seeing Regina or Henry in any scene automatically makes it worse for me. ;)

[maryle]

I like the cynism in here, sometimes the CS tumblr is just too much pink colored glasses!!

For me this show is really just a silly guilty pleasure because of Emma Swan , Hook and Snowing. And, yes I want Hook to have a s.l. or a centric in Emma arc it seems reasonable!

I'm also curious about the DO mythology and Rumple, the rest is so boring and soapy it is almost a masterpiece!

So another repeat of 4b that I just watched some of the episode is something I'm not interested.

Finally I really believe it is a mistake to repeat 4b structure. The true is the Regina centric are just not a big draw and the SQ episode doesn't do well.

The only time they rose rating wise was for the Hook and CS episode of the arc. Np

Regina for me work as EQ and a less is more way, they just have redeem her too soon and turned her as Emma 2. What next when the real Emma is back and the show has 2 Savior who have white powerfull magic.

[patchwork]

Dear god please don't let them bring back Regina's white magic, it was ridiculous enough the first time.

 

I know the conversation has moved on but going back to the costumes for a moment I like Regina's but I think it would look better on Snow. It reminds me of the nice red and gold trim one she wore in a missing year flashback. Red is too much of Emma's colour for me to feel comfortable with Regina wearing it. I'm looking forward to Dark Swan but at the same time I'm dreading it TS:TW

 

And personally I think blue looks better on Lana than red. 

[mjgchick]

Yeah Lana is gorgeous in blue. I don't get why they have her in red other than to troll and it's working because fans of both sides are losing their damn minds.

[Rumsy4]

I don't like the cut of Regina's red dress. It doesn't fit her well. The shoulder cape-thing looks cumbersome too. If it had been well-fitted, it would have been okay.

[Curio]

Is the incredible resemblance between Once Upon a Time’s King Arthur (to be played by Liam Garrigan) and a certain one-handed pirate just happy coincidence? –Linda

With a chuckle, Eddy Kitsis affirms, “It is just a happy coincidence!”

 

Eddy Kitsis then added, "You actually thought we'd make Hook related to the main guest star of the season and give him a backstory? LOL."

Edited August 31, 2015 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

Yeah Lana is gorgeous in blue. I don't get why they have her in red other than to troll and it's working because fans of both sides are losing their damn minds.

Yeah. I thought her blue EF dress in Queen of Hearts when she met Hook was one of her best. The red she wore in 3B even looked better than the spoiled one.

So it's only a "happy coincidence" that Arthur looks like Hook? What's happy about that? It's just the writers saying they hate interesting stories. They just want Hook to look pretty and brood, not actually get his own plot.

Edited August 31, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

So it's only a "happy coincidence" that Arthur looks like Hook? What's happy about that? It's just the writers saying they hate interesting stories. They just want Hook to look pretty and brood, not actually get his own plot.

 

Right? At the bare minimum, the writers need to lampshade it and have Hook pretend to be Arthur during an undercover mission or something.

[LizaD]

 

it would be karmic payback for Merlin to be screaming that line at Regina so she can get a taste of her own medicine... But if Merlin is yelling that line towards Emma

Merlin's older than dirt, even older than Rump and more powerful than Rump. It'd be pretty pathetic if he was accusing some baby amateurs of "ruining" his life. If that was his line, it'd have to be the Dark Flubber. I still say the DO was originally his.

 

 

she mentions having to think about different hand motions for "good" vs "bad" magic, so she must have already done some dark magic

I don't know if that was a "spoiler" for this season. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that on the DVD commentary she said Emma has been imitating Elsa's gestures except for when she killed Cruella because Elsa's inspiration didn't come from a bad or evil place. I think she put way too much thought into this. There's only so much you can do with throwing your hands out in front of you. Not a lot of variation is possible. Although with tacky makeup Emma showing up in a black trench that screams evil, it's a guarantee that she's done gotten down and dirty. Like her evil grandma, she probably played like she was Jerry Springer and outed a paternity secret.

 

 

It's just the writers saying they hate interesting stories. They just want Hook to look pretty and brood, not actually get his own plot.

I think they just hate stories period. Why did people think they were even related? The looks? I don't think the timeline really fits unless all the Camelot people are supposed to be from Rump's/Hook's generation and somehow never aged. But it seems like they're making Camelot the same time period as Snowing and co. like usual. As for Hook getting his own thing, this could be a case of be careful of what you wish for. Remember Snowing and the egg napping to make them look evil and hypocritical own thing?

[Serena]

They look totally different in the face. They just have dark hair and light eyes, but "he looks so much like Hook!" is someone people have been saying about literally. every. character since S2. It started with baby Owen and didn't stop.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Serena

[RadioGirl27]

But it seems like they're making Camelot the same time period as Snowing and co. like usual.

 

Yeah, and it's a shame. This was not necessary, all of the Camelot characters, except for Merlin, could have appeared only in flashbacks while the present storyline revolved around DarkEmma. But A&E just love their new toys

They look totally different in the face. They just have dark har and light eyes, but "he looks so much like Hook!" is someone people have been saying about literally. every. character since S2. It started with baby Owen and didn't stop.

It depends on the pic for me. But this just proves that a big part of the fandom really want to know more about Hook. But, sadly,  A&E don't get the message.

Edited August 31, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Serena]

Yeah, and it's a shame. This was not necessary, all of the Camelot characters, except for Merlin, could have appeared only in flashbacks while the present storyline revolved around DarkEmma. But A&E just love their new toys

But if Camelot was only in flashback and didn't take place at the same time as Snowing&co., we'd be seeing flashbacks of random people who are in no way connected with our main cast. That would be a waste of time, IMO. BTW, do we have confirmation that Snowing met Arthur&co (except Lancelot) before or are they meeting them in 501?

 

I actually like that they chose to have parallel storylines with Camelot Grey!Swan and Storybrooke Dark!Swan - that cuts down on useless flashbacks and the need to retcon backstories. If they want to have Belle and Merida have an adventure, or Charming and Arthur, they can do so in "present" time without having ridiculous flashbacks where Charming/Belle are character assasinated in order to learn a moral lesson from the guest star of the week.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Serena

[mjgchick]

I honestly don't think Liam and Colin look alike but I still wish they made Hook have some ties to the Camelot folks. Maybe Cora forced him to do something in Camelot but no he'll just be paper wall and wait until Dark Swan can rip his heart out. I think she'll end up hurting him physically because the show seems hell bent on throwing the Whites under the bus.

[RadioGirl27]

But if Camelot was only in flashback and didn't take place at the same time as Snowing&co., we'd be seeing flashbacks of random people who are in no way connected with our main cast. That would be a waste of time, IMO. BTW, do we have confirmation that Snowing met Arthur&co (except Lancelot) before or are they meeting them in 501?

What I mean is that Merida, Arthur, Gwen, Lancelot, Percival, sir Lionel/Morgan/whatever his name is and the rest of Camelot characters we don't know about yet are not really necessary in a show with already 10 regular characters and a bunch of recurring characters. With a flashback to Camelot in the times of the Round Table (where you can add Hook or Rumple) would have been more than enough.

 

 I think she'll end up hurting him physically because the show seems hell bent on throwing the Whites under the bus.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, apart from the psychological pain, at some point this season Emma would hurt Hook phycically. If they want to show her physically hurting a regular character he is the logical choice, him or Charming.

[tennisgurl]

I cant say for sure, but it looks like Camelot is not only in the same time period as the Enchanted Forest, but its also looking very similar, which is very disappointing to me. We have a whole giant fictional multiverse! Go to a land that is actually different! I mean, looks different, has different rules, different types of characters, something! 

 

I still want to go back to the theatrical, weird Land Without Color again. At least it was something new. 

[pezgirl7]

I honestly don't think Liam and Colin look alike but I still wish they made Hook have some ties to the Camelot folks. Maybe Cora forced him to do something in Camelot but no he'll just be paper wall and wait until Dark Swan can rip his heart out. I think she'll end up hurting him physically because the show seems hell bent on throwing the Whites under the bus.

 

I agree that they don't look a like, but that it would have been nice if Hook had some connection with Camelot. Maybe they can take a page out of Tangled, and have him come across a wanted poster of himself, where his picture looks slightly off, and he remarks that 'They can never get the nose right'.

Edited August 31, 2015 by pezgirl7

[HoodlumSheep]

I agree that they don't look a like

You can sort of see a resemblance when they're far off in the distance (and it's mainly due to the scruff), but that's about it.

The Mad Hatter visited Camelot in that comic released this past year. It'd be cool if that was at least mentioned, but it'll never happen so I won't get my hopes up.

[KingOfHearts]

It's not that Hook and Arthur have a lot of resemblance. I'm just really tired of interviewers asking questions about interesting plots, only for A&E to keep saying no. That's about 80% of the questions they get asked. Another 15% is "we'd love to explore that" or "maybe", and the other 5% is boring obvious crap no one cares about they approve.

 

Plus they never give Hook anything substantial outside of Emma and Rumple. So there's that.

Edited August 31, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

Is it me or were they going toactually do something about his father in 4B? I could've sworn they mentioned something about it.

If this is a happy coincidence, are thye going to try and make something of it?

The answer about Emma and Rumple makes me facepalm hard. Can we not ask A&E stuff they've already answered 3 weeks ago, because it's not like they're going to elaborate on it or anything like that.

[Curio]

Is it me or were they going to actually do something about his father in 4B?

 

No, Adam & Eddy never mentioned anything about it. But Colin said in an interview before 4B came out that he'd be very interested in seeing young Killian and whatever happened to his father who abandoned him. Fans took that as a sign that maybe Colin had been discussing that storyline with the EPs, but alas...Colin is just desperate for a storyline, too.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

Adam needs to have a talk with the new writer. She's overhyping this show way too much. And promising more than A&E have ever delivered on. I'll believe the payoff when I see it.