Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[RadioGirl27]

The spoilers are all over the place. So we have Dark Swan, Brave, Camelot and now also greek mythology. And we are just in episode 2.

[Souris]

I expect JarJar Binks, Nick & Nora Charles, and Joan of Arc in ep 3.

[kili]

I sort of stopped at this because who do we know who has murdered family members?  I'd wager there's no one in that group from last night except for the heroest of all heroes, Regina.

 

Both Regina and Rumple have killed their Dads. Regina also had her husband killed and inadvertantly killed her Mom.  Rumple also killed Zelena (she just didn't die) and Zelena is his Grandson's Adopted Aunt.  In addition, Rumple killed his son's fiance.  Some blame Zelena for killing her adopted nephew's Dad. She's also killed the mother of her child's half-sibling.

 

But TS, TW will probably have the Furies target Snow. After all, she did kill her Step-Grandmother (Cora) and we are never allowed to forget that. 

Edited July 24, 2015 by kili

[KAOS Agent]

So far I've not been particularly impressed with any of the spoilers. However, since they are all over the place, I'm willing to withhold judgment. One thing I will say though is that while I'm okay with angst, if they go overboard with Dark!Emma, it's going to start coming off as torture porn. If doing these things was a matter of personal choice (like Regina), then I can feel bad about the manipulations that put her on that path, but not be overly bothered if bad things happen to that character. If, like Emma, a character sacrifices herself so that everyone else can live and that makes terrible things happen to the character or to her loved ones (or irreversibly damages their relationships), it's not angst anymore, it's torture just for the sake of drama. The potential destruction of Swan Believer is an example of this. 

 

Emma is not a person who can just come out of this and not be wracked by guilt and remorse. No matter the excuse, this would ruin her. A concern would be too that if Season 5 is the last (and I'm one who thinks it should be), there's no way for them to deal with Emma's issues coming from this and wrap her life up in a satisfying way for the happily ever after everyone will get in the series finale. 

 

On a separate note, it might be an interesting story if Regina screws up as the Saviour. Regina is always about the magical short cut (see: Neverland). I could see her harming people/causing bigger problems due to her own lack of interest in helping people as the Saviour and not being willing to work hard to fix things rather than just waving her hand and thinking it's fine.

[RadioGirl27]

Emma is not a person who can just come out of this and not be wracked by guilt and remorse.

This. Emma is not Regina, and if she does something to her son, her parents or Hook, hell even to one of the dwarves, once she is back to herself the guilt would eat her alive. The longer they drag this, the more difficult would be to solve it in a satisfying way. I guess they can always go the "forgetting potion" route as an easy way to solve it, but that would be terrible.

On a separate note, it might be an interesting story if Regina screws up as the Saviour.

If only. But she would be the best saviour ever, putting Emma as a saviour to shame. Edited July 24, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

On the writers' board pic I posted in Spoilers, I see “Has to because (BC)” “People who love” and “Loved ones will”

[OnceUponAJen]

In the end, Emma taking on the darkness has saved so many lives, though. I think her struggle will be to try to thwart the Dark One in any way she can along with everyone who is fighting for her.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm getting the impression that as much as she was encouraged to use her magic, now everyone will likely be worried that her using magic will only corrupt her which I understand, but sort of sucks for her.

 

It's nice (not really) though that now that Emma is the Dark One, she and Hook have effectively been replaced by Regina and Robin.

 

ETA - That was my last rant of the day, I promise.  I'm done now.

Edited July 24, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[mjgchick]

Regina and Robin might have replaced Hook and Emma but the writers half ass their writing that I can't even be bothered to be annoyed by them. I actually think the writing for RR is pathetic.

 

I'm more worried about the head canon bromance between Hook and Charming. Even Colin's worried and Josh has to reassure him that he'll be thinking of Hook.

[RadioGirl27]

Charming and Hook are not friends, Charming doesn't even like Hook most of the time. So I doubt Hook is going to show any concern because Charming and Arthur are suddenly BFF. But, hey, if this gives Hook some screentime, I'm all for it.

(OK, no more negativity today, I promise)

Edited July 24, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[pezgirl7]

That's why the bromance is only head canon for a lot of us. :) At least some guy on the show is getting a bromance. They're very lacking on this show.

Are we sure Robin is unconscious when Regina kisses him? He moves his legs, but they could be off screen.

[OnceUponAJen]

That's why the bromance is only head canon for a lot of us. :) At least some guy on the show is getting a bromance. They're very lacking on this show.

Are we sure Robin is unconscious when Regina kisses him? He moves his legs, but they could be off screen.

I liked Charming and Prince Charles working together, as well as them both working to save Emma at the ice wall. Is that as close as we've gotten to a bromance for them?

[KingOfHearts]

I don't even care about any of the relationships or characters any more. Only the plot points even vaguely interest me. Luckily this season looks like a doosy in that regard.

[YaddaYadda]

HQ pics of Wednesday's filming.

So is it me or does it seem like this is the first time Hook and Emma lay eyes on each other since she peaced out of there?

[Rumsy4]

[Robin] moves his legs, but they could be off screen.

 

That was not his leg. If you know what I mean... (Sorry! :-p)

 

So... any thoughts on the Diner pic Adam tweeted? I can't tell who the two women are. Neither of them look like Emma. 

 

ETA: 

So is it me or does it seem like this is the first time Hook and Emma lay eyes on each other since she peaced out of there?

 

Yes. Hook's like "What even are you wearing?" And Emma's like "Kiss me, hot stuff!" Oh my heart...

Edited July 25, 2015 by Rumsy4

[Serena]

So is it me or does it seem like this is the first time Hook and Emma lay eyes on each other since she peaced out of there?

Since Camelot? Yeah, probably. But not since she disappeared, because they're reunited immediately in 501. We'll have two CS reunions in two consecutive episodes! I wonder if a huge amount of time passes between Emma leaving Camelot and that scene? 

Also, after Emma leaves, Hook turns to her car and touches it. It's heartbreaking. It also seems like they did a couple of takes where she grips his lapels and he just stands there, but in the third one he puts his hands near her hips.

 

That photo Adam posted honestly looks like Emma to me, except normal Emma. She doesn't have her hair in a bun and they're normal blonde, not white. There's no other blonde in the cast, is there? The girl with her looks like Lily to me, even though we got nothing about her possibly filming. But being in studio, it's not a given we would.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Serena

[retrograde]

It doesn't look like Agnes Bruckner is in Vancouver.

 

EDIT: according to new writer Brigitte, episode 5 is an heartbreaker that will make Twitter blow up.

 

This has to be Emma and Hook, right? Maaaaybe Regina and Robin? Rumple and Belle have already broken up plenty of times, and I don't think anyone cares that much about Snowing anymore. Unless it's a rift between Henry and Emma.

 

Also, after Emma leaves, Hook turns to her car and touches

I'm pretty sure he's touching the car as she walks up. The photos appear to be in reverse order.

Edited July 25, 2015 by retrograde

[Souris]

So... any thoughts on the Diner pic Adam tweeted? I can't tell who the two women are. Neither of them look like Emma. 

 

I thought the blonde looked like normal Emma. I figured it was Regina or possibly Lily. But I guess not b/c of the photo below. Could it be Meghan Ory?

 

It doesn't look like Agnes Bruckner is in Vancouver.

 

This has to be Emma and Hook, right? Maaaaybe Regina and Robin? Rumple and Belle have already broken up plenty of times, and I don't think anyone cares that much about Snowing anymore. Unless it's a rift between Henry and Emma.

 

My immediate thought was it was something to do with CS, but I'm not sure how much of that was knee-jerk and how much was actual likelihood.

[HoodlumSheep]

I think it's emma and possibly Lily or Ruby. The hair doesn't look dark enough to be Regina and she doesn't look like Belle, so those are my two guesses.

Is Killy maybe comforting Emma's yellow bug? Poor thing is probably feeling so neglected.

Edited July 25, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

I thought it was Emma and Rumple actually. Rumple wore a suit as the Dark One, so I think it makes sense that he wouldn't now that he isn't anymore.

Also, those pics of Hook and Emma, I'm willing to take the bet right now that he is filled with guilt over her becoming full on Dark One. If this is a flashforward, then there has been a massive failure somewhere along the line which I'm assuming he's shouldering part of the blame for. She looks very non threatening to me in the pics.

[Serena]

It's interesting that, if that's Emma, the dress she's wearing under the black coat has black but also a lot of white.

[Rumsy4]

Oh god, this is going to be sooo painful! Did Emma do something "Dark" in Camelot before they all got transported back to Storybrooke? (maybe she killed Merlin or something) Killian seems disappointed and angry with her. He doesn't even want to hold her. :-( Emma, on the other hand, seems playful and happy to see him. 

Edited July 25, 2015 by Rumsy4

[pezgirl7]

There are other photos of Hook with his hand on Emma. But I do think he looks uncharacteristically stoic around her. His face is pretty expressionless, but I'd say he looks sad and maybe a little upset.

About the diner photo, perhaps the people are crew or stand ins, and they're just blocking the shots before filming. The person on the right looks like they're wearing plaid, which doesn't really match anyone except Charming. In the monitor to the right, it looks like a crewman sitting at the counter.

Edited July 25, 2015 by pezgirl7

[Serena]

There are other photos of Hook with his hand on Emma. But I do think he looks uncharacteristically stoic around her. His face is pretty expressionless, but I'd say he looks sad and maybe a little upset.

From the progression, it looks like they did a couple of takes where he doesn't move and then one take where he puts his arms on her waist, and I guess they'll decide in editing. Both could work. 

 

I'm already impatient for set pics and I will soon be without my computer for two weeks!! How shall I survive?

[Rumsy4]

Even in pictures when he has his arms on her waist, it's not a firm grip. He looks like someone who doesn't have much hope. So maybe Emma did dispose off Merlin, who is supposed to be the "only" person who can get rid of the Darkness for good. And yet, it seems so unlike Hook to withhold affection from Emma, even if she had given in to Darkness. After all, he knows from personal experience how easy it is. I wonder what is going on...

[PixiePaws1]

Ep 5 is a heartbreaker??? I'm pretty sure mine was shattered the moment Killian watched his Swan take his happy ending and wrapped it in the electrical tape of darkness....!!! The mangled pieces of said heart will now be crushed under the feet of the writers in their mad rush to destroy Emma's character in order to sanctify Regina. Oh, if only I drank alcohol. ...

[pezgirl7]

Hook better still have his heart. I don't want them pulling a Regina/Graham on the CS relationship. The saddest part of the scene for me is him touching the bug. I wonder if he says Emma's name, and she poofs in behind him? Rumple seemed to have that ability when people are talking about him or looking for him.

[Souris]

So apparently JMo started out grabbing something else in that scene.

[RadioGirl27]

EDIT: according to new writer Brigitte, episode 5 is an heartbreaker that will make Twitter blow up.

My first impression has been that she was talking about CS, but then, how much worse the situation between them can get? They are already separated and heartbroken. The only way to make it worse is to have her kill him (or at least, try to).

And yet, it seems so unlike Hook to withhold affection from Emma, even if she had given in to Darkness.

I can see him being upset if Emma has done something to actively stop them from taking the darkness from her, like killing Merlin or destroying the only portal to reach him.

Or maybe he has been cursed again (it's been almost a whole season since the last time).

Edited July 25, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Writing Wrongs]

So apparently JMo started out grabbing something else in that scene.

LOL. I'm glad they changed it.

[Serena]

CSers on Tumblr are ready to start a White House petition to protest ABC's unbearable censorship.

But I agree, grabbing the lapels is also a better parallel to the other times she did it.

[Watt]

So apparently JMo started out grabbing something else in that scene.

Oh God Emma is horny.

[mjgchick]

ABC censorship. That's pretty funny but I think the belt thing would have worked better if it was pirate Killian as well.

Emma neglecting her bug will be one of the saddest things to see on the show.

[YaddaYadda]

Those photos are heartbreaking because he's leaning in like he wants to kiss Emma but won't because she isn't herself.

 

They are heartbreaking and this whole situation sucks.

 

That walk through town on her own at night is even more heartbreaking than her scenes with Hook.  She looks happy to see him and he looks heartbroken/guilty.  At the pier, she looks like she's snarking at Regina and Henry and at night she's completely alone and depressed and plain sad.

 

I think whatever happened in Camelot that Regina is referring to is the thing that toppled Emma over that precarious line.  So they probably fucked up.  Imagine that...Emma saves everyone and when they have the chance to do the same thing, they fail at it and the result of that failure is standing right in front of them now. 

 

Also, that tree in the BTS, I'm pretty sure it's Merlin's tree.  How it is in Storybrooke is a whole other thing.

 

ABC censorship.

 

I'm pretty sure there is no ABC censorship if I go by the Shonda lineup.

Edited July 25, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Curio]

So apparently JMo started out grabbing something else in that scene.

Ha! Oh, Jen. Before I clicked on the link, I was imagining the SNL skit where Will Ferrell gets grabbed...down there...by Katie Holmes.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

My read of Hook's face/bearing in all those shots is that he looks like his heart is breaking/broken, but he's desperately trying to be stoic about it.

[Amerilla]

Emma is not a person who can just come out of this and not be wracked by guilt and remorse.

 

Entering the Realm of Completely Uniformed Speculation, it's entirely possible that the resolution of the story is Emma having her memories of anything she did or said as Dark Swan completely removed by Regina-As-Savior.

 

That would parallel the 3a finale where Regina replaces her memories of having given Henry up with a wonderful life where she kept and raised him, and not leave any pesky consequences, since Emma's family and supporters would be inclined towards "well....you were cursed." 

 

 

 

Oh God Emma is horny.

 

Going to be one of those seasons when we can be grateful for Adam's assurances that A&E's kids completely understand that this is just a fantasy, and that - the examples of Regina, Cora, Zelena, Ruby, LaceyBelle and (almost certainly) Dark Swan notwithstanding - they know that sexuality in women is generally positive and healthy and absolutely not a sign of eeeevil or being any way 'cursed' into a whorish existence.

Edited July 25, 2015 by Amerilla

[october]

Charming and Hook are not friends, Charming doesn't even like Hook most of the time. So I doubt Hook is going to show any concern because Charming and Arthur are suddenly BFF. But, hey, if this gives Hook some screentime, I'm all for it.

(OK, no more negativity today, I promise)

 

While I agree, I do want to see Charming (and Snow) making more of an effort to include Killian in their lives instead of just tolerating him or acknowledging him when they need something. He isn't the kind of person they imagined their child ending up with, sure. But he's not going anywhere. He brought Emma back to Storybrooke when he didn't have to, he followed Emma into that portal in the S3 finale, they see he's serious about her wellbeing and that he makes her happy, they saw him return Ursula's voice and facilitate her happy ending, and he persuaded Emma to forgive them for their fuck ups.

 

They owe him big time. But they were talking shit about him turning evil again as recently as Poor Unfortunate Soul. Not that Hook is doing all of this for them and he can take the occasional jibe in his stride, but with Emma being the way she is this coming season I don't think they can afford to alienate her further by crapping on the man she loves. Maybe Charming's bro-nod near the end of Mother was the sign of a changing dynamic. I hope so.

[YaddaYadda]

There's so much more than that.  In the AU, he had so much faith in her and what she said to him that he was willing to die to set things right.  I'm sure they also heard that Emma's last words as completely herself was to tell him she loved him.

 

I think the dynamic between those 3 has already changed anyway.  When Emma found out her parents lied to her and she took off, her line was about her parents sending him to her.  Plus they apologized for killing him in the AU.  I think David was already accepting of whatever relationship might between Emma and Hook as far back as White Out.  The weird thing is that Hook and Snow have not had an actual scene like ever and I think they've exchanged a total of 3 lines.

 

But then, Snow doesn't really have a relationship with her daughter, so her not really talking to her daughter's boyfriend comes really as no surprise.

 

I doubt Snowing will leave Hook twisting in the wind if for nothing else that they know Emma wouldn't want that.

[Souris]

I doubt Snowing will leave Hook twisting in the wind if for nothing else that they know Emma wouldn't want that.

 

Perhaps they can send whatever they don't like about him into Zelena's baby.

[RadioGirl27]

While I agree, I do want to see Charming (and Snow) making more of an effort to include Killian in their lives instead of just tolerating him or acknowledging him when they need something.

Oh, I would like to see some bonding there, or between Hook and Henry (another relationship that doesn't exist but a part of the fandom think it does) but that's never going to happen. Those relationships are not important for A&E, because they don't include Regina, and let's not forget:

"There's just so many people that it's like, it's sometimes hard to do that story and sacrifice Regina's story. That's just showbiz." —Edward Kitsis

Edited July 25, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Shanna Marie]

If you factor in Once Upon a Time in Offscreenville, there's a sense that while Hook and David aren't really having a bromance and hanging out together, there's some trust between Hook and the Charmings, given Emma's assumption that they sent him to talk to her. If she hadn't seen them interacting and getting along, why would she assume he was their ambassador? And we saw that he was with them and Henry when they all went to meet her when she and Regina returned from the outside world. He wasn't showing up from another direction, so it looked like they'd been together. We just don't see these offscreen interactions because there's only so much time and it's not part of Regina's story.

 

So while I'm sure the Charmings and Hook will be supportive of each other in Emma's absence and will be working together while they all miss her, what we'll see most of is how this affects Regina and how she feels about it. The story isn't about their feelings about each other, but their feelings about Emma.

[mjgchick]

The background scenes are more of seeing that they do get along. I don't know if it's the actors but the granny scenes where we see Hook and the Disney Princesses fooling around works for me even if it's just the actors.

Also didn't Killian take Henry sailing the episode Regina chose to use Emma as a punching bag? Henry going to AU Hook and saying he had a good teacher tells me they do have a relationship. We're just not seeing it because the writers would rather watch Regina bully her way through an episode I guess. If we don't see at least one person console Killian I will flip a table like it's a WWE contract signing.

[RadioGirl27]

As we are not talking about spoilers, I'm going to take my view on Henry and Hook's relationship to the relationships thread.

Edited July 25, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[retrograde]

Video of the "super secret" scene from the other night.

 

 

Doesn't look like a TLK scenario to me, though I guess they could cut in more close-ups. 

[Souris]

Doesn't look like a TLK scenario to me, though I guess they could cut in more close-ups. 

 

 

It didn't really seem like a TLK to me, either. It was pretty quick. Then again, that's par for the course with OQ!

 

Everybody grabbing hands like they were gonna play Red Rover with the CGI force was odd. Was the strength of their unity enough to fend it off or something?

[Serena]

Maybe not TLK, but what about some heart snatching? Look at this screencap. 
They all look shocked/devastated, so I think this is before he's "saved". Regina looks like she's pulling out her own heart, and since they already have an habit of having Regina plagiarize parallel Emma storylines, why not Snowing storylines too? Heart sharing?

[RadioGirl27]

I trully dislike Robin, but poor guy if he has to live with half of Regina's heart.

I don't know if it's heart sharing or TLK, either way it shows how desperate A&E are to make OQ the main couple of the show. At this point, I'm pretty sure that if they have to hurt CS for it, they would.

And speaking of Regina's heart, would it be still black or now that she is a "hero" would it be the redest red ever?

(I'm super negative, I know, but this eternal heat wave we are living in my country is making me really grumpy).

Edited July 26, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[YaddaYadda]

This sort of reminds me of when Zelena tried have Hook drowned.  

[Mari]

Did anyone else hear what sounded like Snow saying "Emma, what are you doing?" at the very beginning?