Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[myril]

The actors surely had a Helluva lot of fun making this one-!

Maybe the dedicated viewers will finally have some much deserved fun as well. This half season has been a freaking mess of mediocrity.

 

Yeah, fun, just fun, which kinda is still the problem for me, even with low expectations. But probably a nice opportunity to say goodbye to the show with a huge fun party. 

[Mari]

Since next week is the concept movie, which usually resets at the end of it--how much are we done with the "Dark Emma" storyline? I know there's the weird dagger/jazzhands thing next week, but how likely is it that Emma's going truly evil next week, instead of just disappearing or something?

ETA: at the end of the episode, I mean, not whatever shenanigans Isaac and Rumple end up writing her into.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Mari

[Guest]

Snow being the Evil Queen, I can't decide who it is that was killed for her to turn. I keep wavering between David and James, but I think David is the one who bites it. David doesn't need to be controlled to do Snow's bidding. He never says no to her and if he does, she steam rolls right over him. So l'm gonna go with James being the new Graham.

if Snow is the new Evil Queen, then that makes Emma her sister or her Zelena, more powerful than Evil Snow, thereby shackled and imprisoned and clearly on the verge of madness.

 

I think that Snow is the new Cora and Emma is Regina and Rumpel rolled into one.  There is a real air of cray cray in Emma in the promo that kind of reminds me of the Dark One and the Dark One had to go somewhere.  Neal probably bought it at Snow's hands and Emma took on the Dark One curse to get revenge. 

 

I'm now back to Emma to becomes the Dark One in the final moments again (it was nice to have convinced myself otherwise).  With Rumpel saying he was all that was holding the Dark One at bay, I think the cloud has to be the Dark One set loose after the story is set back to rights through Gold 'dying' (he dies and Belle TLK him) or Henry fixing things gives the Dark One freedom between vessels somehow.

Edited May 4, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[Serena]

It seems like they're retconning the Dark One, making it an entity instead of a power-giving curse. So that's how Rumple gets redeemed: he loses the DO and suddenly, everything he did was not his fault, what an innocent lamb! And that's how we get Dark!Emma without her really being at fault: the DO "possesses" her and she's not at fault for any of her actions.

[patchwork]

I love last year's CS movie so I'm cautiously optimist about a OUAT mirror 'verse one, if nothing else it looks like it's going to be fun costume wise.    

[YaddaYadda]

So, I just realized something.  When Hook walked into Granny's and sat next to the Author at the end of that scene after he's done taunting Rumple (which really was kind of hilarious, I must say), the Author had that look on this face when Hook tapped him on the shoulder, like an "ugh" type of look.  I'm kind of wondering how this whole thing works, if Rumple doesn't just wanna be made a hero and then everyone's actions dictates the story.  

[RadioGirl27]

If this is Rumple's fanfiction, I'm sure he would make Hook a coward. One of the things he hates the most about Hook is how brave he is, so making him a coward would be even more satisfying than just erasing him from existence.

[Rumsy4]

Here are my predictions. Rumple apparently wants to be a valiant Knight, and be a hero in Belle's eyes. Poor Belle. He probably still has magic and longevity. 

 

Because Regina refused to help him, Rumple decides on a role reversal for Snow and Regina. I don't think that was James. This is AU, not Time Travel and Dead is Dead). If you think about it, Charming always does what Snow wants. Controlling his heart is only the extreme version of it. 

 

Emma could still be Snow's daughter, and Snow is taking control freak mother to the nth degree. 

 

I don't think it is going to be Zelena and Robin who are about to be married. Didn't one of the CS fans say it was funny? Besides, Rumple probably has some extra special torture designed for Zelena.

 

Hook probably still has his memories, but he is the opposite of a survivor in the AU, and probably gets mortally wounded trying to rescue Emma. That's probably what prompts Emma to confess her love for him once the AU is reversed. I generally don't complain about the lack of CS sexytimes, but come on... you can't part them w/o having banged even once! lol 

 

What is Henry doing in his own clothes (and from the looks of it--memories)? Couldn't Rumple think of a persona for him? I could care less about the Author's backstory, but looks like that's what we're going to get in the first part of the episode. 

Edited May 4, 2015 by Rumsy4

[OnceUponAJen]

If this is Rumple's fanfiction, I'm sure he would make Hook a coward. One of the things he hates the most about Hook is how brave he is, so making him a coward would be even more satisfying than just erasing him from existence.

That's an interesting thought, because in the promo in the swordfight with David, he looked a little bit rattled....That's the only way I can put it.

[daxx]

If this is Rumple's fanfiction, I'm sure he would make Hook a coward. One of the things he hates the most about Hook is how brave he is, so making him a coward would be even more satisfying than just erasing him from existence.

I suspect this as well. It fits with Rumple's headcanon and is the opposite of Hook's characterization. He looked like he lacked confidence in the tiny scene of him fighting. Colin looked awkward which is unusual.

[Rumsy4]

It could be that Hook still has his memories, and doesn't want to kill Charming (and ends up getting hurt in the process). 

[kili]

So that's how Rumple gets redeemed: he loses the DO and suddenly, everything he did was not his fault, what an innocent lamb!

 

Not just innocent, a hero! He held the Dark One at bay for all those years. Think of the damage that might have otherwise have been done! Rumple deserves the happiest ending ever.

 

Of course, that doesn't really explain his actions when there was no magic (actions like nearly beating Mo to death, trying to take Ashley's baby and kidnapping Katherine in attempt to frame Mary Margaret and set up Regina), in the land without magic (where he set Chernobog on the town and brought two villains to town) or before he was cursed (setting fire to a castle without concern as to how the people in there will get out or murdering a man). A&E will just tell us "These are not the droids^H^H^H^H^H^H facts you're looking for".

[sharky]

Hook probably still has his memories, but he is the opposite of a survivor in the AU, and probably gets mortally wounded trying to rescue Emma. That's probably what prompts Emma to confess her love for him once the AU is reversed. I generally don't complain about the lack of CS sexytimes, but come on... you can't part them w/o having banged even once! lol

I'm thinking Hook may still have his memories as well. I can't remember if it was here or tumblr, but I saw the theory of Rumple torturing Hook by keeping him alive with his memories so he can remember what he had with Emma -- and what he's now lost. And yes, if CS doesn't get at least one good coffee break before everything goes to hell, Adam is going to get a less-than-pleasant but still respectful tweet from me.

 

What is Henry doing in his own clothes (and from the looks of it--memories)? Couldn't Rumple think of a persona for him? I could care less about the Author's backstory, but looks like that's what we're going to get in the first part of the episode.

I have two possible theories here: either Henry can't be manipulated by the Author because he was born in the Real World or, what I suspect is more likely the case, Rumple wants him there unaltered with his memories so he can see his grandfather be the triumphant hero. It would be like Rumple may be the hero in this story, but he's still a manipulative bastard who has dragged his grandson with him so Henry can see what a good man his grandfather really is and what horrible mothers he's been saddled with.

 

That being said, I think this is Henry's first time in the Enchanted Forest, isn't it? I don't always like his character, but I am pretty excited to see how he reacts to being there since he was really the first one to believe the Author's story and convince Emma of it.

 

Oh, and I don't care which character Josh Dallas is playing. He's got guyliner, scruff and messy hair. He's hot damn hot. And yes, it does seem that this show has trained me to respond a certain way to a certain type now I guess. :)

[Serena]

I don't think Rumple gives a fig about what Henry thinks or how Henry sees him. Purposefully leaving him with his memories would be monumentally stupid, because he knows Henry and he knows that if Henry sees his grandma has suddenly become the Evil Queen and his mom is trapped in a basement somewhere going crazypants, he's not going to be like "oh cool, let's watch grandpa be a knight!". Also, weren't there spoilers of Henry being all alone in Storybrooke? I think the author can't manipulate Henry at all, so he remains alone in SB when the author starts writing, and then he finds a way to get himself to the EF.

[kili]

I think the author can't manipulate Henry at all, so he remains alone in SB when the author starts writing, and then he finds a way to get himself to the EF.

 

I agree. I think Henry uses the door in the mansion to get to the world with the EF and, for reasons, it takes him to the EF instead of Arendelle.

[patchwork]

I wouldn't mind if Henry The Truest Believer is immune to the Author's re-write and after the world changes he finds himself in Rumple old village WTF-ing Heroic Knight Rumple then he stumbles upon coward Killian. Then after a bit of persuading Henry drags Killian off to find Emma and Regina.  

 

I don't particularly want an season finale hanging on Henry but as passive as his magic is it's been established that he can see the truth when magic changes the story, Pan arc aside.  

[HoodlumSheep]

Would Henry be affected if he's not in he book or born in the EF though?

The Hook still has his memories theory is interesting. It would parallel with Regina punishing Jefferson by letting him keep his memories.

Maybe the worried/surprised? face on Killy is because the Author/Rumple got rid of his awesome sword skills, so he gets caught off guard?

So many possibilities.

The "ugh" expression from the author when Hook came in the diner was also interesting. He's not in the book besides the time travel stuff as far as we know. So unless Rumple filled him in on stuff (because we all know how obsessed he is with Hook--joking, joking!)...

Maybe the author didn't like his attitude (which is understandable, I think. Have you learned nothing from your 22627 encounters with Rumple?!)

It'll be interesting to see how Henry tries gathering the troops, like who he runs into first (looks like Rumple) and such.

I wonder how Zelena's gonna fit into this, besides seeing what happens to her. She looks happy in the promo, but I imagine Gold will want to make her suffer.

Edited May 4, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Serena]

I honestly don't think we'll get coward Hook. It makes sense, but it would not really be entertaining to watch. They want to have a fun and action packed hour, not a repeat of 402 with Henry in the role of Anna and Hook in the role of Charming. I'm going to guess Hook will be pretty much the same, maybe pre-character development. So he'll be the Hook from early season 2, before meeting Emma. Then he'll meet crazy!Emma.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Serena

[Bluerang1]

Regina is wearing Snow's oufit from Snow Falls/Snow Drifts which is from when she met David, which probably means she will be meeting Robin?

 

Or will she be with Daniel while Zelena is with Robin?

 

Unless Zelena's happy ending is something else, maybe reuiniting with Cora.

[HoodlumSheep]

I honestly don't think we'll get coward Hook. It makes sense, but it would not really be entertaining to watch. They want to have a fun and action packed hour, not a repeat of 402 with Henry in the role of Anna and Hook in the role of Charming. I'm going to guess Hook will be pretty much the same, maybe pre-character development. So he'll be the Hook from early season 2, before meeting Emma. Then he'll meet crazy!Emma.

Yeah, I imagine we'll get season 2 hook or even possibly present-day Hook, due to the fact that Rumple sees him as a villain as is, so why would he need to change stuff?

[Rumsy4]

Unless Zelena's happy ending is something else, maybe reuiniting with Cora.

I don't see Rumple giving Zelena a Happy Ending. But she does look happy in the promo. So, who knows??

[MMR]

Zelena and Gold made a deal in hospital for her to get her happy ending from the author. And her happy ending is to replace Regina. She's definitely getting married to Robin in the finale.

[kili]

And her happy ending is to replace Regina. She's definitely getting married to Robin in the finale.

 

I  hope that hospital she is in actually has a doctor capable of dealing with her issues. That's just a very sad Happy ending.

[Souris]

After that taunting from Hook especially, no telling what he'll do with Hook and Emma.

 

I'm pretty sure Hook will die in the AU, and that may be what prompts Emma to reveal her feelings for him. Because of COURSE Rumple will make him suffer and die.

 

IMO the dagger is close to the end, b/c of Emma's different clothes in that scene. IMO, it's AU first. Something returns them to SB. That's when Emma & Regina wake up, and Emma runs off (to find Hook?). They get a day of calm to change clothes, then the Dark One cloud is released from Rumple & Emma's sacrifice with the dagger.

 

The shot of crazed Emma in the tower, she was sort of phasing/stuttering. I think she sort of remembers reality and it's driving her mad. 

Edited May 4, 2015 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

Couldn't Rumple think of a persona for [Henry] him?

 

 

That's a cute thought, but Rumple doesn't give two fucks, a rat's ass or donkey balls about his grandson.  If he did, he wouldn't have tried to hat his mother and then turn her to the dark side.  Rumple can fall from a bridge into Niagara Falls and never come back up for air ever again.

 

It will definitely be interesting to see what he comes up with for Hook, since hasn't fucked with his life already.

 

So I gather that the Author becomes a best selling author in our world with his piece called Heroes and Villains.  

[Watt]

I just think it's gonna come down to the fact that Rumple can be put into a hero outfit, but deep down he makes his own choices and I bet we see him something do something totally selfish while playing "hero" and it dawn on him that his unhappy ending is all up to him in the end anyway. Blah blah blah. I just know it'll end on a cliffhanger and I have a feeling it's gonna irritate me.

[LizaD]

I don't think it's all Rump's work. I think the only thing that is his mandate is his and Belle's story and the rest he's leaving up to the author to do whatever he wants. Rump's never given a second thought to anyone else. So the Snow and co. swap is all the author's work.

 

If it's a swap then I don't think Emma's evil. She's probably just locked up. Could be a loop hole because Emma never lived there so doesn't have a "fairytale" anti-persona.

[kili]

The shot of crazed Emma in the tower, she was sort of phasing/stuttering. I think she sort of remembers reality and it's driving her mad.

 

Maybe it is also a side-effect of her blood (the potential for her evil) being used to re-write the story? Her savior blood at odds with her anti-savior blood?

 

I find it remarkable that the dark blood is needed for the ink. Is that the genesis of the Dark One? Somebody wanted to write down the stories so they needed somebody really dark to get the blood from (would fit with that oozing darkness used to reform Rumple).  Or is it because Isaac wants to re-write the stories that he needs the dark blood.

 

Will the cure to his re-writing be "light blood"? Emma has to realize she is the savior and start writing something herself? Write that the author no longer exists? But, then Henry is the hero, so maybe some lightness in him counteracts it?

[retrograde]

If they make Emma evil at the very end of the finale I don't think they will also do it in the AU -- I agree she may just be locked up and unloved. From what those fans who were on set said, it sounds like she teams up with Hook, which I don't think she'd do if she was super dark (unless they're both dark).

[Souris]

The author's name on the book cover is Isaac Heller -- which someone has figured out is an anagram of Leia, Charles.

[chrisvee]

I would be unsurprised if Hook behaves exactly the same in Mixed!Up!EF as he does in Storybrooke.

[Souris]

Finale press release.

[RadioGirl27]

I'm pretty sure Hook will die in the AU, and that may be what prompts Emma to reveal her feelings for him. Because of COURSE Rumple will make him suffer and die.

Yeah, I think (well, I hope) that we are getting the magical tears from Tangled. There are a lot of parallels between Hook/Emma and Rapunzel/Flynn Rider and doing this, they give a little something to the shippers before the heartbreaking final scene with Emma's sacrifice, like when they give the Rumbelle shippers the wedding at the end of last season.

 

IMO the dagger is close to the end, b/c of Emma's different clothes in that scene. IMO, it's AU first. Something returns them to SB. That's when Emma & Regina wake up, and Emma runs off (to find Hook?). They get a day of calm to change clothes, then the Dark One cloud is released from Rumple & Emma's sacrifice with the dagger.

This is what I think too. My only doubt is when they release the Apprentice, because it has to be before setting the AU in motion, but, by the end of this episode, Isaac was already writting his fanfiction.

[Mathius]

Finale press release.

"Guest Stars TBA"? What the Hell?

Also, laughing that they came out and used the phrase "shocking twist". Because yeah, aren't they all? /sarcasm

[Souris]

They also used "captivating."

 

I remember them doing Guest Stars TBA at least once before.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Souris

[YaddaYadda]

"Guest Stars TBA"? What the Hell?

 

They're probably trying to hide the name of an actor or two, namely the guy who will be revealed as the Sorcerer and maybe whatever they're setting up for S5 if they're going to be re-using the same actor.  Last year, the only guest star was the woman who plays Marian since Elsa wasn't cast yet.

[Anakerie]

This entire thing is making me think of the Buffy episode "Superstar" where Jonathan rearranged reality to make himself appear living perfection to everyone. I swear to God if there is a Rumple Swimsuit Calender...

[Serena]

I'm thinking/hoping they're not gonna publish the guest stars because they have a few surprise guests coming? Adam and Eddy already spoiled August and the Blue Fairy.

 

 

Last year, the only guest star was the woman who plays Marian since Elsa wasn't cast yet.

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I think they straight up lied and didn't put Marian in the press release at all.

EDIT: yeah, exactly.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Serena

[FurryFury]

This entire thing is making me think of the Buffy episode "Superstar" where Jonathan rearranged reality to make himself appear living perfection to everyone. I swear to God if there is a Rumple Swimsuit Calender...

I can only hope Once would do an episode as funny as "Superstar".

[HoodlumSheep]

The author's name on the book cover is Isaac Heller -- which someone has figured out is an anagram of Leia, Charles.

That's interesting.

And I'm fine with keeping the guest cast secret. We know the Blue Fairy's in it. And didn't A&E say Grumpy would be in it too? So we at least know them.

*forgot about August. Lol.

Weren't Abigail, Ruby, King Midas, and Blackbeard considered guest stars for last year's finale. So I don't seem to understand that there was only one 1or 2 guest stars.

Edited May 4, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[YaddaYadda]

The author's name on the book cover is Isaac Heller -- which someone has figured out is an anagram of Leia, Charles.

Well that's interesting.  Are we getting a Charles and Leia AU or something?  I'd think they'd do an anagram with Rumple and Regina's name instead.  They don't do these things on coincidence unless they're trying to be cute.  I wouldn't have figured out it's an anagram.

Edited May 4, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[HoodlumSheep]

Maybe the Author secretly thinks that Hook and Emma have the "better story" to tell...

[YaddaYadda]

Weren't Abigail, Ruby, King Midas, and Blackbeard considered guest stars for last year's finale. So I don't seem to understand that there was only one 1or 2 guest stars.

 

Yes, they were.  My point was more that they weren't really trying to hide anything in with the guest stars.  Whereas I'm thinking that the guest list might contain a spoiler they don't want out?  I don't know if it makes sense.

 

So I find it interesting that team hero is in a race against the book basically where they have to do everything they need to do before the end of the story. 

[Mathius]

That's what I suspect: there are MORE than one surprise guest coming. If it was just one, they'd leave that one out like they did Marian in the 3B finale. Not showing the entire list means that there are several.

[Anakerie]

Since all fictional realms are apparently fair game, I hope to see in the finale the South Park kids, Tyrion Lannister, the 9th Doctor, Bo and Luke Duke, and Lassie.

[FurryFury]

Not all, only Disney properties/public domain.

[Shanna Marie]

The shot of crazed Emma in the tower, she was sort of phasing/stuttering. I think she sort of remembers reality and it's driving her mad.

That's my guess, that her Savior status makes her somewhat immune to the changes, so she remembers the way things were and has a crazy, very dissonant "we are both" thing going on but without the context to understand it, and so she's mad. But I think that might preclude Hook having his memories if he's going to be the one to get her out of the tower. I don't see how he would keep his memories and be sane. Maybe he gets his memories back somehow.

 

I'm also guessing that the dagger scene we got all the pictures of has something to do with Rumple dying and the Dark One being unleashed after things are set right, and Emma may actually become the Dark One, so she can end the season heroically and still be the villain for the next season.

 

How the rest of all this works depends on how much thought they really put into the building of the bizarro world and the Author's powers and Rumple's direction. If they're just swapping out villains and heroes, then Hook could be the wild card because he's both. He's currently a hero, but he's traditionally a villain. So he might remain more or less the same. I wonder what that particular outfit is supposed to signify. We saw him wearing it when he was a villain, but Hook in evil pirate mode is usually wearing the long black coat and the red vest.

 

If the Author just set things in motion without dictating each action, then the basic natures of the characters might end up starting to undermine it. You can call Rumple a hero and put him in shining armor, but he's still going to probably end up being a coward in the long run. Snow and David may not be able to stop themselves from being heroes. With Regina, it depends on what she's being this week.

[RadioGirl27]

 

The shot of crazed Emma in the tower, she was sort of phasing/stuttering. I think she sort of remembers reality and it's driving her mad.

If we are right and Hook is going to "die" in the AU, maybe she is physically feeling that (True Love and all that), like when Charming felt it when Snow went under the sleeping curse.

 

 

That's what I suspect: there are MORE than one surprise guest coming.

If this is Rumple's fanfiction, maybe Neal is coming back.

[YaddaYadda]

If this is Rumple's fanfiction, maybe Neal is coming back.

 

Rumple didn't want Neal.  Rumple wanted Baelfire.  Rumple like Snow did not sign up for a grown ass child, he wanted the version that fell into the portal.

 

Also, maybe I'm looking too much into this, but Hook's vest, why that one I ask.  We haven't seen that one since season 2 in the Queen of Hearts.  He met Milah while wearing that.  He was also wearing that vest when Regina sent him on his way to Wonderland to murder Cora.  The show is sort of careful with the way they use the clothes.  It's like Emma's leather jackets.

 

ETA - Captain Swan is the only couple that met in two different timelines, I do really wonder what's going to go down with them in this finale.

Edited May 4, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Serena]

I wouldn't be surprised about Neal. The actor seems to be still good friends with the cast.