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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

regularlyleaded

By regularlyleaded
in Once Upon A Time

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

(edited)

If Zelena has a baby with Robin, will that baby be considered a rape baby?  The writers better be careful how they thread with that one.  He may have consented to sex with Marian, but not with Zelena.  Robin is an idiot, but we all know he wouldn't touch Zelena with a ten foot pole and I don't care for Regina's karma coming back to bite her in the ass like that because of what she did to Graham.  I absolutely do not care for this plot and I might have to get myself on Twitter to curse Adam out.

 

I find it a bit frightening that 9 weeks have passed since Rumple tried to kill Hook and was banished from the town.  So 3 whole weeks have gone by since he has come back to town.  Them putting a time stamp on this makes me queezy.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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Camera One
Camera One

When everyone realized Rumple and Regina weren't coming back, they had a big celebration and put on a cloaking spell so they can never be found or contacted ever again.

Curio
Curio

At least someone is freaking out over Emma's darkness. Keep giving a shit, Hook! You're pretty much the only one who does...

Serena
Serena

HER GRANDMA IS EMMA! Are they being serious with this?

ParadoxLost

ParadoxLost

“Sympathy for the De Vil” – In fictional 1920s England, viewers meet a young Cruella, whose oppressive mother uses her Dalmatians to terrorize her daughter.

 

Once Upon a Time in a land known as TWOP, I joked that someday Cruella De Vil would be a villain on this show and in her tragic backstory it would be revealed she skins puppies alive because she was bit as a child.  I was kidding.  Must we always go for the obvious?

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Mari

Mari

(edited)

And if Zelena has a meatloaf in the oven, I will FLIP. TABLES. We've already had babies of Emma, Alexandra, Phillip, Zelena, Regina, Lily, Snowflake, Neal, and Henry. This show does not need more babies.

We have some very interesting metaphors and codes for things in this fandom.  Surprisingly food based.  (Tacos, coffee, meatloaf . . )

 

If Zelena has a baby with Robin, will that baby be considered a rape baby?  The writers better be careful how they thread with that one.  He may have consented to sex with Marian, but not with Zelena.  Robin is an idiot, but we all know he wouldn't touch Zelena with a ten foot pole and I don't care for Regina's karma coming back to bite her in the ass like that because of what she did to Graham.

Technically, the poor baby would be.  I don't expect the show to ever address the issue that way--they seemed surprised that people thought of Graham/Regina as rape, and were offended by it.  (Although to be fair, that might be fake surprise so that they can ignore the issue.).  People tend not to realize or acknowledge that men can be victims of sex crimes by women, particularly when the women in question are attractive, and both actresses in this case are lovely.   As a result, men and teenage boys tend to underreport and the women are usually under sentenced, if convicted.

 

If Zelena is pregnant, does anyone expect her to live?  Because I could see them having whoever the next villain is killing her off shortly after she has the baby, and then Robin and Regina would take custody.

 

ETA:

 They have to be more self-aware than to go there, right? RIGHT???

 

buildmeupbuttercup, while I fully support your efforts to remain positive and see the best in our production team, I must point out that they've made some pretty unselfaware writing choices.   I do not have the faith you have.

Edited by Mari
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buildmeupbuttercup

buildmeupbuttercup

(edited)

If Zelena is pregnant, does anyone expect her to live?  Because I could see them having whoever the next villain is killing her off shortly after she has the baby, and then Robin and Regina would take custody.

I will take classic daytime soap opera tropes for $500, Alex.

 

They have to be more self-aware than to go there, right? RIGHT???

 

ETA:

buildmeupbuttercup, while I fully support your efforts to remain positive and see the best in our production team, I must point out that they've made some pretty unselfaware writing choices.   I do not have the faith you have.

Have no fear Mari my faith in this production team was given up loooong ago ;-) I'm just as bitter an cynical as the next person that this will turn into all the daytime soap opera tropes.

Edited by buildmeupbuttercup
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scenicbyway

scenicbyway

Poor Cruella, in those pictures it looks like she genuinely likes the author aka her date.  I don't really doubt that he's manipulating her.  My question is, how is he in 1920's England and then later in the EF and even later locked up in the book?  I presume he's only be locked up for the last 29 years? How long has he been the author?

 

I do think it's interesting that after being terrorized by dogs, Cruella's superpower is control animals with her breath.

 

I can't believe Emma and Regina put off their roadtrip to "saveHenry" again.  Rumple has the author, what could Cruella possibly need with Regina and Emma?  We also know they that head off on their roadtrip in the next episode so whatever "kidnapping" occurs, it's contained within the episode.

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Serena

Serena

Apparently, the actress who played Alice’s daughter in the series finale of OUATiW is playing young Cruella. I hope this doesn't mean that Cruella is Alice's daughter.

But... wasn't that actress at least bi-racial? Since her father was POC? 

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scenicbyway

scenicbyway

I wonder how the meeting between Rumple and Belle is going to go. Is she going to ream him out for deceiving her yet again? Will he ask her about Will? Will she bring up Milah? Is he going to collapse in front of her and try to play the sympathy card? Lots of possibilities. 

I'm sure the next line or action will be Rumple putting Belle to sleep until the finale.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

So, I've been wondering.  Zelena told Rumple that her life force left her before she broke apart, I guess.  Is it possible that this is what happens to Emma in the end?  That maybe she took evaporates or something?  It's not like they explained how her ass got reincarnated or became corporal again in the Enchanted Forest of the past or anything like that.

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ABitOFluff

ABitOFluff

Nice theory... too bad Belle is a pawn again either way.

Hm, I can actually see an upside to this. If Regina or "the Heroes" go to Belle and scam Rumple into thinking they've stolen her heart, I can get onboard with that. Provided Belle is okay with the scam.

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Souris

Souris

So, I've been wondering.  Zelena told Rumple that her life force left her before she broke apart, I guess.  Is it possible that this is what happens to Emma in the end?  That maybe she took evaporates or something?  It's not like they explained how her ass got reincarnated or became corporal again in the Enchanted Forest of the past or anything like that.

 

Possible. She'd need to re-corporalize pretty soon, though, unless next season starts with a bunch of JMo-less eps, which I would not like.

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KAOS Agent

KAOS Agent

(edited)

I would be okay with Regina pulling one of the many hearts out of her vault and pretending to Rumpel that it's Belle's. She could then get Belle to go along with the ruse because she would not actually remove her heart or have any power over her. At the end, Regina could return the heart to its actual owner (as she should do with all of those hearts). However, I don't think that's how it would play out. After the Pinocchio incident and Hook's heart theft earlier this season, I don't see anyone going along with Regina actually taking Belle's heart. If this is truly what happens, and it seems likely given that they go to NYC and get Robin & Zelena, then it's probably a Regina only move. It's actually a brilliant play by Regina, but it's fairly heinous and not at all happy ending deserving.

 

ETA: This could also be the thing Lana was talking about with regards to saying Regina was willing to get her hands dirty to help/protect Emma.

Edited by KAOS Agent
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txhorns79

txhorns79

(edited)
If Zelena has a baby with Robin, will that baby be considered a rape baby?

 

Even better, what if the possible rape baby turned out to be Olivia "I'm a product of rape, why do you ask?" Benson on Law and Order SVU in some kind of half-crazed crossover event.   

Edited by txhorns79
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retrograde

retrograde

Zap2it Interview with Victoria Smurfit. Doesn't reveal too much. I expect they'll do a big media push with interviews this week, though. Or if they don't, they should -- this is probably the last episode this season that might draw in news/lapsed/sporadic viewers.

 

Also, from E! today:

 

TLM1262: Will the significance and meaning of Robin Hood's lion tattoo be addressed on #OUAT in the future?
Even though we just found out a lot about Robin Hood in his origin story episode, we still didn't learn anything about that dang lion tattoo! Even Sean Maguire wants to know more about it. "I thought about that myself, and I'm really intrigued to hear the genesis and origin of the lion tattoo as well," Maguire says. "We just learned a lot about how Robin became the man he is today, but the lion tattoo is going to remain a secret for a bit longer."

 

 

Does the tattoo have to have meaning? I just assumed it was a family crest or something.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

Does the tattoo have to have meaning? I just assumed it was a family crest or something.

 

I'm having bad flashbacks to Stranger in a Strange Land, the LOST episode where we found out about Jack's tattoo. 

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FurryFury

FurryFury

Oh god that episode... Anyway, they probably bring up Robin's tattoo because they have to ask SOMETHING but there's, like, nothing else interesting about Robin himself. He's just too bland and boring. 

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mjgchick

mjgchick

Oh god I'd like to forget about Jack's tattoos.

 

I doubt the tattoo means anything other than the reason for Regina's libido to have an alert system on him being the one that got away. Thanks a lot Tinkerbell.

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sharky

sharky

You know what pissed me off the most about that script tease? They're writers for a major television show and they don't know how to use a damn apostrophe! Both parents had the secret so it's therefore the parents' secret. Ugh.

 

Oh, and it seems a bit queer baity so there's that too.

 

But seriously, how do you not know how to make a word possessive when you're professional writers?

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Curio

Curio

But seriously, how do you not know how to make a word possessive when you're professional writers?

 

Maybe Regina is only referring to Snow's secret, thus the singular possessive. But then Emma responds and lumps Charming in with that secret, too?

 

Nah, they're probably just bad writers.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

 

I'm having bad flashbacks to Stranger in a Strange Land, the LOST episode where we found out about Jack's tattoo.

What's funny is that they hyped that episode as "secrets revealed" and got everyone excited to watch it. Then when it executed so poorly and went off the rails into a different direction, it was as big disappoint as Once is with its setup.

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sharky

sharky

Maybe Regina is only referring to Snow's secret, thus the singular possessive. But then Emma responds and lumps Charming in with that secret, too?

 

Nah, they're probably just bad writers.

Oh, you may be on to something. Emma knows that Killian and her dad are bros and she doesn't want to mess that up so the secret is only Snow's secret. That way her boyfriend and her father can still be buddies.

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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Emma knows that Killian and her dad are bros and she doesn't want to mess that up so the secret is only Snow's secret. That way her boyfriend and her father can still be buddies.

Such good buddies that Charming assumes that Hook would easily be turned evil again after spending five minutes with Ursula? I'm starting to fear that as much as fans want that friendship to happen, the writers never intended it and can't be bothered.

 

I've seen some pretty awful grammar, spelling and punctuation in TV scripts. I guess since you can't tell where apostrophes go when people are talking, they think it doesn't matter. And don't get me started on subject/verb agreement and the difference between objects and subjects when choosing pronouns. I'm afraid most TV writers don't know the difference between "me" and "I" and "we" and "us." I spend a lot of time shouting at my television.

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RadioGirl27

RadioGirl27

You know what pissed me off the most about that script tease? They're writers for a major television show and they don't know how to use a damn apostrophe! Both parents had the secret so it's therefore the parents' secret. Ugh.

 

Oh, and it seems a bit queer baity so there's that too.

 

But seriously, how do you not know how to make a word possessive when you're professional writers?

Really, English is not my first language and that's the first thing I've seen.

 

As for the rest, just the usual fanservice and queerbaiting.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

Makes me scared of the upcoming roadtrip with those two. It'll be the ultimate bait-fest.

I am the only one who doesn't see this?  Or maybe I just don't care about it enough to pay attention.

 

Regina is going on the road trip to get Robin back, so we'll see how that goes when she jumps him and is making out with him since she hasn't seen him in like 9 weeks.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

I am the only one who doesn't see this?  Or maybe I just don't care about it enough to pay attention.

I probably wouldn't see it either if the whole Swan Queen shipper debacle wasn't happening in the background.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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mjgchick

mjgchick

I really don't see it as baiting at all. I think shippers will feel what they feel and that's their prerogative. It's not A&E's fault that they see it differently. Now if we have Regina or Emma low key flirting or doing sexual innuendos even if nothing happens then we have a problem. If no one was shipping Swan Queen no one would think of it. If this was a scene between Elsa and Emma or Belle and Emma would anyone even clutch their pearls?

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Serena

Serena

I don't think it's queer baiting at all. I would call it "Saint Regina baiting", if we need to make a baiting happen - because yes, it's ridiculous how they need to put it totally on the forefront on screen that Regina is TOTALLY NOT GUILTY OR TO BLAME for this thing, so much that they write a scene where Emma even says it - when no one was blaming her for it in the first place. Seriously, this place is Regina Hater Central and none of us even mentioned it. Meanwhile, a thing like Graham is swept under the rug - so nice that Regina seeks Emma's forgiveness for this, but not for murdering a man she cared about.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

Meanwhile, a thing like Graham is swept under the rug - so nice that Regina seeks Emma's forgiveness for this, but not for murdering a man she cared about.

 

It's not like Emma even knows about that.  And it was dismissed when Henry brought it up.  The Graham horse has been beaten to death, then resurrected, then beaten to death again.

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Curio

Curio

(edited)

It's not like Emma even knows about that. And it was dismissed when Henry brought it up. The Graham horse has been beaten to death, then resurrected, then beaten to death again.

 

I don't care if the horse has been beaten to death, buried underground, and given a tombstone with a proper funeral service. I will dig up the horse, resurrect it to the point where it becomes a zombie horse, and keep it alive until that issue is addressed on screen. Because only on This Show™ can the writers force Emma to go on a road trip to help make amends for her parents' mistake from decades ago where they thought they might have killed Maleficent's child, but then never address the actual murder that happened a few years ago to someone who was arguably a better/closer friend to Emma than Lily ever was.

Edited by Curio
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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

I don't think the actual scene in the episode is SwanQueen/queer baiting. It's just the usual St. Regina whitewashing (because you know if Emma kept a secret from Regina, even out of good intentions, she'd be crucified both in the show and in fandom). But in context of the way these people deal with social media, I think the script tease itself is SwanQueen baiting (which is kind of queer baiting, since they're never going to actually go there on the show, but they're trying to get social justice credit for acknowledging it away from the show) because it seems designed to get exactly the reaction it got, which was a swarm of replies along the lines of "OH, TEH FEEEEELLLLLZ" and other swooning from the SwanQueen contingent. Which is what seems to be pissing off other people who are pointing out that this kind of stuff is actually rewarding and catering to the group most likely to engage in online bullying of the cast members and other fans. If they weren't either baiting or catering to this group, they would release different teases.

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Mari

Mari

I don't care if the horse has been beaten to death, buried underground, and given a tombstone with a proper funeral service. I will dig up the horse, resurrect it to the point where it becomes a zombie horse, and keep it alive until that issue is addressed on screen.

I fully support your efforts and am willing to supply zombie horse food. However I would like to request that you keep the zombie horse far away from me. I can't run very fast and I'm not particularly good at hiding.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

Because only on This Show™ can the writers force Emma to go on a road trip to help make amends for her parents' mistake from decades ago where they thought they might have killed Maleficent's child, but then never address the actual murder that happened a few years ago to someone who was arguably a better/closer friend to Emma than Lily ever was.

 

It's not like I disagree with anything you've said.  But Graham's murder will never be addressed again and Emma will never find out because for these writers, it's a joke, much like his rape was a joke.  Jamie Dornan thought what was going on between Graham and Regina was horrifying, the writers didn't see it that way, because apparently men can't be raped.  I'd like to thank you show for contributing to that stigmatization.

 

What bothers me the most is that while they refuse to address anything that has been done to Graham, but they keep his shoes in the sheriff's station, and his shoe lace around Emma's wrist (though I think that's more JMo than the show) and they bring him up as someone Emma lost and she's still hurting over that.  So they need to just stop at this point.  It's more than 3 years, they need to either not bring him up again or address it.  And what worries me is that if they ever decide to address the murder that everyone will forgive Regina for what she has done to this man who has been nothing but kind to the Charming clan.

 

1000% done with this over here.  I'd rather they never bring him up again, never show anything that belongs to him and so on and so forth.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

And what worries me is that if they ever decide to address the murder that everyone will forgive Regina for what she has done to this man who has been nothing but kind to the Charming clan.

 

That's my fear too. We saw Emma being devastated seeing Regina burn her mother alive. But once she returned to Storybrooke, she was literally begging Regina to Taking this to the Emma thread.

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regularlyleaded

regularlyleaded

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(edited)

I don't care if the horse has been beaten to death, buried underground, given a tombstone and a proper funeral service. I will dig up the horse, resurrect it to the point where it becomes a zombie horse, and keep it alive until that issue is addressed on screen.

I'll be right there next to you with a shovel, Curio.

 

Blatantly ignoring the fact that Regina murdered Graham out of sheer spite but a mere two years ago (at most) also makes the "friendship" that the writers keep pushing between Emma and Regina all the more effed up. Granted, the whole idea that Emma would ever entertain the notion of being "friends" with Regina (let alone actively pursue it) was already effed up what with all the evil and despicable things that Regina has done to Emma and her family. But that the writers are also ignoring Regina's murder of Graham, a man who clearly meant a lot to Emma and she still feels his loss to this day (she wears his shoelace around her wrist for pity's sake!), for the sole reason that the writers want to pretend that Woegina is redeemed and that Emma should be thankful for Regina's friendship is beyond the pale.

 

It's disingenuous storytelling. It's gross and IMO it's also the calling card of two-bit writers who don't know how to write honest human stories and instead have gotten by with cheap tricks and flashy gimmicks that now, after four seasons, have become tired and threadbare from abuse. The ridiculous "friendship" the writers have fabricated between Emma and Regina is a house of cards that the writers want viewers to pretend is made of stone. The only thing stone hard here is the writers' permaboner for Regina.

 

ETA

 

And what worries me is that if they ever decide to address the murder that everyone will forgive Regina for what she has done to this man who has been nothing but kind to the Charming clan.

For me it's not so much a worry as a certainty, but that certainty doesn't make it any less set my house on fire with the TV in it enraging.

 

I think it's become more than clear that the rules of this show's universe bend around Woegina. She has yet to suffer any true and lasting consequences for her years of mass murder, slavery, and rape, and she never will suffer true consequences. Moreover, to this day she blame-shifts her actions as the fault of others: "You made me a monster" she says to Rumpel and no one calls her on it. Not even those that have suffered the most at her hands. Regina is the vicious evil dictator that got everything in the end. All of that makes this show less a fairytale and far more a morally depraved horror story. Even the original authors of the more gruesome versions of fairytales (pre Disney) would look at this and say, "Dude, that's f*cked up." 

Edited by regularlyleaded
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