Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[RadioGirl27]

I just had the horrible thought that Lily is Maleficent and Hook's child

Ugh, way too early for that thought.

If Lily is really Mal's daughter and she was intended to be her daughter since the beginning, as A&E would probably try us to believe, why they casted a Latina to play young Lily? (this is a rethorical question, we all know why).

I think those scenes from yesterday are the ending of episode 20, so the road trip would be 19 and 20. Episode 21 would be them dealing wuth everything and 22 woukd set season 5. It's asking too much that this setting up includes a pirate ship and Davey Jones? With this show, probably yes.

Edited March 4, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[FurryFury]

If Lily is really Mal's daughter and she was intended to be her daughter since the beginning, as A&E would probably try us to believe, why they casted a Latina to play young Lily? (this is a rethorical question, we all know why).

 

Maybe she's Henry Sr.'s daughter and Regina's long lost sister (you know, another one).

 

And speaking of Regina's sisters, I'm so totally depressed by the news about Zelena I can't really imagine finishing this season. It just sound so stupid... I mean, even more stupid than the book/Author business. I can't believe that the show that was so good in s1 came down to this.

[kili]

Which also begs the question why Rump didn't ensure his failsafe was safe?

 

We'll probably get some ret-con where Rumple told Blue about the tree. BTW, here is the dialog that introduced the tree from the Pilot:

 

(A noise is heard. Guards enter, dragging behind them a piece of a tree. The Blue Fairy also accompanies them.)

Prince Charming: What the hell is this?

Blue Fairy: Our only hope of saving that child.

Grumpy: A tree? Our fate rests on a tree? Let’s get back to the fighting thing.

Blue Fairy: The tree is enchanted. If fashioned into a vessel, it can ward off any curse. Geppetto, can you build such a thing?

 

So, if Charming and Snow stole the tree from Mal, was that scene supposed to be theatre? For who?

 

BTW If Zelena is Marian, everybody better thank Emma and Hook for dragging her back to Storybrooke. Imagine the damage she could have wrecked in the past if she had remained. Missing a few weeks of booty calls is totally worth that. Of course, it will probably be treated like Emma was an idiot and did even more damage. This makes no sense with what we saw. If you have to pull all these ret-con's out of your butt, maybe your idea isn't so Great.

[YaddaYadda]

Sneak Peeks 1&2

 

Snowing for both.  Set up after the honeymoon which puts us what? 8 months to a year away from the curse?

Edited March 4, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[kili]

Who dismounts their horse outside the gate and just leaves them standing there? Are you not allowed to ride your horse into the town?

 

When we last saw Malificient in this timeline, she was dressed in pink and saying "Well, it’s [snow's] wedding night. I doubt she’s suffering right now."

 

So, I guess Regina steals the curse from Malificient, Malificient allows Snow/Charming to enjoy their honeymoon (man, was Snow a killjoy on that thing. You'd think she would have had a change of heart after almost getting Charming killed by Medusa) and then approaches them with some sort of deal? The outfit seems a little inconsistent, but the timeline works. For once.

Edited March 4, 2015 by kili

[Curio]

I just remembered the spoilers about "voice, Feinberg, and eggs." I'm guessing each one refers to one of the Queens of Darkness. We've already knocked away Feinberg with Cruella's last name, now we're just waiting on voice and eggs. I do like the theory that Ursula's siren song (voice) is taken away, and the egg probably has something to do with Maleficent.

[YaddaYadda]

I do like the theory that Ursula's siren song (voice) is taken away, and the egg probably has something to do with Maleficent.

 

Makes total sense.  Maleficent's line to David about him recognizing her I'm sure had to do with the egg he put in her dragon form.

[worryfaraway]

Now that Hook appears in the book helping Emma, does it mean he's considered a hero now and the rule won't apply to him anymore??

 

I'm kinda disappointed that Will and Ana aren't likely to get a centric episode.

 

Saw this on the wiki forum:

 

"In regards to whether or not the writers really did plan this whole Zelena=Marian thing in advanced since the end of Season 3, someone found this old TV Line article from right before “Kansas” aired. The way Eddy Kitsis answers this actually is rather fitting of this theory. Not saying it’s direct confirmation this was planned or not, but interesting nonetheless:

    As for the simmering “OutlawQueen,” he says, “You will see that the only thing standing in their way is Regina’s sister [Zelena], who will test whether or not she has really changed.”

 

Edited March 4, 2015 by worryfaraway

[Serena]

There is literally nothing that will make me believe it was planned. If it was, they are the worst writers ever, because they did not plant ONE clue.

Also, this solves none of the problems of OQ, so it's stupid AND pointless.

[Rumsy4]

There is literally nothing that will make me believe it was planned. If it was, they are the worst writers ever, because they did not plant ONE clue.

Also, this solves none of the problems of OQ, so it's stupid AND pointless.

Totally agree. This is part of the dishonest storytelling of A&E. All the conversations Marian had in the EF time-travel adventure, and In Storybrooke, become pointless and meaningless. Just like Nealfire's heartfelt assurance to Panry, and Hook's heart-broken voicemail to Emma. The writers care about the WTF factor more than emotional payoffs.

There's nothing to indicate that Marian was Zelena all along. Robin is clearly not that bright. But wouldn't any of the Merry Men have noticed that Marian was not herself? How would Zelena have recognized Robin and Roland, or any of the Merry Men? Did she call people "dude" to get away from using their names? Zelena acting like Ariel was pushing it, but this beats everything.

[kili]

There's nothing to indicate that Marian was Zelena all along

 

Absolutely no clues. It's not a great reveal when it comes right out of left field. If you re-watch "The Sixth Sense" or "The Usual Suspects", all the clues are there or are hinted at. If you rewatch Marian scenes, there are absolutely no clues because they pulled this right out of thin air. Sure, they will probably "plant the seeds" in 4B, but it's too late. Why don't they just make Emma Santa Claus and Charming the Tasmanian Devil while they are at it. Then A&E can gleefully say that the hints were there all along when they were not.

 

And Zelena's plan makes even less sense than before. She's an all powerful witch, able to cast spells that even the Dark One thought to be impossible, Regina can barely defeat her, Glinda gets exhiled by her, but for epic revenge her plan is to steal her sister's boyfriend? Lame. What next? Is she going to put salt in her sugar? Prank call her?

 

IDK, but given Zelena is now stuck with Robin, she once again proves the villains lose even when they win. Zelena probably demands he drive her back to Storybrooke and then dumps him on Regina. I can't imagine Zelena wanting to put up with that sad sack of a loser for very long before she snaps. I'm more willing to believe a ret-con that Zelena froze herself and framed the Snow Queen (who she totally recognized) because she just couldn't stand being around Robin all the time.

 

Zelena acting like Ariel was pushing it, but this beats everything.

 

At least she was only trying to fool people who knew who for a day or two at most. Not people she'd lived with in a close community for several years.

[RadioGirl27]

At least, it seems Belle and Gold are not back together yet. He has even changed the locks.

Edited March 4, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Curio]

There is literally nothing that will make me believe it was planned. If it was, they are the worst writers ever, because they did not plant ONE clue.

 

I mean, they did plant some clues...but you have to squint really hard and do a ton of mental gymnastics to make sense of it all.

 

They established in 3B that Zelena is batshit insane and was desperate to not only destroy Regina's happiness, but literally take over her life. She wore Regina's dress in the Enchanted Forest for crying out loud. She was willing to do the impossible (go back in time) just to live the life Regina would have gotten. So we know she's crazy enough to actually take over Regina's happy ending, which at this point is living with Robin. We know she's good at impersonating other people when she pretended to be Ariel. It would also explain why the True Love's Kiss didn't work when Robin tried to wake her up.

 

Zelena's death in 3B was ambiguous enough where we all knew she wasn't actually dead dead. We know her smoke went back to her pendant and there was a good chance she went back in time with Hook and Emma. Where things get convoluted is whatever happened between her and Marian in the past in the Enchanted Forest, which I'm not even going to attempt to decipher because it'd take an essay to make sense of.

 

What I take the most issue with is Christie Laing's portrayal of Marian in 4A. I never got the sense that there was some shadiness or duplicity going on. You'd think she'd want to revel in being a total bitch to Regina throughout 4A, but by the end of the premiere episode, she was already thanking Regina for saving her life. And then she was way too nice to Regina after she put her heart back in. Are the writers going to play that off as Zelena being oh so thankful to her sister for saving her life? If it turns out Zelena was posing as Marian throughout all of 4A, I wish they would have dropped some hints, like Roland naturally wanting to be with Regina more or showing "Marian" not remembering a story about her and Robin correctly, which makes Robin raise an eyebrow. Something. I fear that the writers kept Christie completely in the dark to save their "epic" secret from getting out, but that it'll totally backfire because the reveal will come completely out of left field.

[turbogirlnyc]

Maybe Maleficent used to be a powerful, light magic being like Emma, probably a fairy. (Thus the "potential for darkness") Then somehow Snow and Charming got her kicked out and she went dark? Like they stole something she was supposed to protect or something? They seem to be doing some sort of ritual in the CTV promo.

Hmm... Sounds a lot like the Maleficent movie with Angelina Jolie. More specifically, the "stole something" which caused her to go dark part.

This is a bit off topic but I blame the recent villains are misunderstood trend on the huge success of Wicked. But what do I know?

I'm dreading more Zelena on my screen. Her storyline dragged for me & I wasn't thrilled with the actress & her portrayal. And don't get me started on Lily. Nothing against the character. There's just too much going on as it is.

I may quit this show. Better Call Saul is now my Sunday night "go to" show.

Edited March 4, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[Mitch]

 

I mean, they did plant some clues...but you have to squint really hard and do a ton of mental gymnastics to make sense of it all.

 

They established in 3B that Zelena is batshit insane and was desperate to not only destroy Regina's happiness, but literally take over her life. She wore Regina's dress in the Enchanted Forest for crying out loud. She was willing to do the impossible (go back in time) just to live the life Regina would have gotten. So we know she's crazy enough to actually take over Regina's happy ending, which at this point is living with Robin. We know she's good at impersonating other people when she pretended to be Ariel. It would also explain why the True Love's Kiss didn't work when Robin tried to wake her up.

 

Zelena's death in 3B was ambiguous enough where we all knew she wasn't actually dead dead. We know her smoke went back to her pendant and there was a good chance she went back in time with Hook and Emma. Where things get convoluted is whatever happened between her and Marian in the past in the Enchanted Forest, which I'm not even going to attempt to decipher because it'd take an essay to make sense of.

 

What I take the most issue with is Christie Laing's portrayal of Marian in 4A. I never got the sense that there was some shadiness or duplicity going on. You'd think she'd want to revel in being a total bitch to Regina throughout 4A, but by the end of the premiere episode, she was already thanking Regina for saving her life. And then she was way too nice to Regina after she put her heart back in. Are the writers going to play that off as Zelena being oh so thankful to her sister for saving her life? If it turns out Zelena was posing as Marian throughout all of 4A, I wish they would have dropped some hints, like Roland naturally wanting to be with Regina more or showing "Marian" not remembering a story about her and Robin correctly, which makes Robin raise an eyebrow. Something. I fear that the writers kept Christie completely in the dark to save their "epic" secret from getting out, but that it'll totally backfire because the reveal will come completely out of left field.

 

Yea.. but acting like a total bitch to Regina would have blown her cover...Zelena was playing the part of the "sweet wife," and torturing Regina with it. Regina has the shortest fuse on earth...(not that I wouldn't being stuck in a town full of idiots but...) and have you ever tortured someone nasty by being overly nice to them? They don't know how to respond. If I was Zelena I would do the exact same thing..act all nice, "Ohhhh, thank you Regina," smirking behind her back.  I think the actresses bland acting could go either way with that.

 

The only thing is, Zelena makes Regina and Rump seem sublte...that really isnt her style.

[KingOfHearts]

Nice callback to Sleeping Beauty in the second sneak peek with the entire kingdom asleep. I found it strange that over the honeymoon they made this big deal about Snow deciding not to constantly worry wbiut Regina, then the second it's over she's back to the same paranoia.

[YaddaYadda]

I think it was all done on purpose.  You have Marian acting as the sweetest thing in the world, willing to do the right thing, step back from the situation and let Regina have her happy ending which is probably exactly who Marian was.  And then she pulls the rug from under Regina and Robin with the whole freezing curse.

 

The whole thing is contrived as hell though.  I just cannot get over how easily Regina is going to get what she wants.  Bitch doesn't even need to find that fucking author but we're not saddled with that, so there's that.

 

Now, where does Cora fit in all of this?

 

Can we just get rid of the Mills women?

[Bluerang1]

I'm I the only one happy that Zelana is back ,and it's not only a flashback? Finally a villain that they didn't kill off and the green smoe thing finally makes sense.

[retrograde]

I actually think Marian=Zelena was their plan, but they came up with the idea before they knew they could do Frozen (they said something in an interview at the time that they had planted the seeds for what was originally supposed to be 4a in the finale). So they decided to put it -- and Marian -- on ice (so to speak) but didn't really think through how the time gap and having Marian and Robin around for all the extra time would impact the plot and its (already tenuous) plausibility. I suspect they didn't want to ruin the "surprise", so they had the actress play her totally straight and didn't tip their hats at all, but that has ultimately backfired by creating even more plot holes.

[Curio]

I just cannot get over how easily Regina is going to get what she wants. Bitch doesn't even need to find that fucking author

 

That's probably the big lesson Regina learns - if you do good things, good karma will eventually come back and treat you well. There will be that "Oh hey, I got Robin back into my life and I didn't even need to find the author! Let's go celebrate!" moment. But then all the good guys will still need to track down the author anyways because Rumple and whichever villains are still aligned with him are still planning on changing things for the worse. So that plot will probably fill up the last 2 episodes of the season.

 

(I'm still crossing my fingers for an alternate universe cliffhanger now that Zelena's back in the picture. How awesome would it be to see Emma randomly wake up in a huge princess-y canopy bed in an Enchanted Forest castle wearing royal garments? And then she wanders the castle to find Snow and Charming twenty years older. Cut to black.)

[KingOfHearts]

I actually think Marian=Zelena was their plan, but they came up with the idea before they knew they could do Frozen (they said something in an interview at the time that they had planted the seeds for what was originally supposed to be 4a in the finale). So they decided to put it -- and Marian -- on ice (so to speak) but didn't really think through how the time gap and having Marian and Robin around for all the extra time would impact the plot and its (already tenuous) plausibility. I suspect they didn't want to ruin the "surprise", so they had the actress play her totally straight and didn't tip their hats at all, but that has ultimately backfired by creating even more plot holes.

They probably put her under the ice curse for this reason, so the length of time she'd have to fake it would be less unbelievable.

[kili]

So they decided to put it -- and Marian -- on ice (so to speak) but didn't really think through how the time gap and having Marian and Robin around for all the extra time would impact the plot and its (already tenuous) plausibility.

 

Or how bad the entire "Freezing Marian" arc would turn Robin into a feckless, cheating loser? I don't care if Zelena is Marian, his behaviour was just whiny, stupid and gross. Most people hated it when David was cheating on Katharine and that was when he was under a spell. Robin was not under a spell and he behaved that way to a woman he thought was his wife. 

 

Not only did Marian give no indication that she was Zelena, the love of her life Robin gave no indication either. So, his behavior is still scummy.

 

Seriously, if a woman went out of town for the weekend and her husband cheated on her the entire time only to discover she drove the car into a lake on her way out of town and died the first night, he technially isn't a cheater, but he did cheat.

 

They buried the Pan is Malcom clues pretty deep, but at least they were there. We are going to need a deep sea drilling platform to find the Zelena is Mariane clues buried 5 miles below the sea floor which is 3 miles below sea level.

[Serena]

Oh, for God's sake, Maleficient is totally Lily's mother. I cannot believe they're going back to the secret relative thing after they were relentlessly mocked for it.

[retrograde]

Or how bad the entire "Freezing Marian" arc would turn Robin into a feckless, cheating loser?

Pretty much, yeah. Before 4a, he was just boring and the relationship seemed rushed, but that was the worst of it. Trying to draw it out and let the character of Robin (and OQ fans) have it both ways ("he is standing by his wife because it's the honorable thing to do and he is a Nice Guy" but also "Robin and Regina are meant to be so their passion simply cannot be repressed") just made things so much worse.

[Selina K]

Oh, for God's sake, Maleficient is totally Lily's mother. I cannot believe they're going back to the secret relative thing after they were relentlessly mocked for it.

 

Not to mention that with 7 billion people on earth, real world Emma forms her only significant relationships with the 3 people who just happen to not be from the real word, Neal, Ingrid, and Lily.  Though I think calling Lily significant is pushing it in terms of value to Emma, but the point stands nonetheless.  Is there some kind of magic / youre not from here magnetic attraction that works on EF people in the real world?

[retrograde]

I wonder if this is the ep Cora is back for? Regina and Zelena gotta work out their effed-up family issues.

[legaleagle53]

Based on all the spoilers that are coming out (and especially if this Zelena = Marian theory pans out), I'm beginning to see how and why viewers came to hate Lost during its final seasons.  That show, these writers.

 

By the way, Adam just released the title for 4x20:  "Mother."  Cora, anyone?

[KingOfHearts]

Oh, for God's sake, Maleficient is totally Lily's mother. I cannot believe they're going back to the secret relative thing after they were relentlessly mocked for it.

Isn't this the Regina centric though? I believe Cora may be coming back in this one. This is the episode with the big Regina twist.

Cora was totally the Author to make her daughter's life miserable.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[kili]

By the way, Adam just released the title for 4x20:  "Mother."  Cora, anyone?

 

I've long believed "Mother" is the Author...Mother Goose.

[LizaD]

 

I cannot believe they're going back to the secret relative thing after they were relentlessly mocked for it.

I think people are just going to have to accept they're watching a soap opera on the level of Days of Our Lives. Long lost relatives randomly popping up are a soap staple. The "dead but not dead" people are another soap staple, and mistaken identities, retcons that never make any sense, zero logic, a week playing out over a year etc.

 

Also I call foul and false advertisement with that Oscar promo and evil Emma.

Edited March 4, 2015 by LizaD

[Mathius]

It's likely a double meaning with Maleficent as Lily's mother in the present story, and Cora as Regina and Zelena's in the past story.

[Writing Wrongs]

In that sneak peek, Cruella looks so out of place in a medieval world. She doesn't belong at all.

[KingOfHearts]

 

In that sneak peek, Cruella looks so out of place in a medieval world. She doesn't belong at all.

I'm still hoping she originated in some other world.

[Shanna Marie]

As series co-creator Eddy Kitsis notes, Belle and Will, after all, have “a lot in common,” in that “they both fell in love with villains (Rumple and Wonderland’s Red Queen, respectively), and they both hoped that these villains would be redeemed.” And they both were let down. With Rumple banished (as far as Belle knows!) and Anastasia MIA, “Anytime you have your heart broken,” Kitsis says, “you look for a way to smile again.”

As one of the twelve people who watched the Wonderland spinoff, this rather pisses me off. Anastasia had a good redemption arc. Unlike certain other "redeemed" villains we could mention, she realized that she screwed up, she realized exactly how she screwed up, she admitted to others that she was wrong, and she took steps to make up for it. Are they now saying that she's since backslid and wasn't really redeemed?

 

I can't believe someone actually thought Hook/Belle was going to be a thing.

 

Well, if you hadn't seen the spoiler photos showing Hook and Emma still together, on the basis of this latest episode I can kind of see where someone might think a triangle was being set up. Emma and Hook were kissing a lot, but then he was spending all his time with Belle and she was spending all her time with Regina, and all the emotional depth for Hook happened in his scene with Belle. That's where we finally got some emotional payoff for what happened in the previous arc. It wouldn't be the craziest romantic writing ever seen on this show if all the proximity of Team Library ended up going somewhere. Meanwhile, if you weren't following spoilers, the idea of Belle and Will would never occur to you because their only interaction so far was when she found him passed out in the library. I'm not saying this is something I want to happen or what should happen, but I don't think someone would have to be crazy to wonder.

[sharky]

I'm still hoping she originated in some other world.

Maybe the black and white world that Whale came from? It also seemed a bit not of the Enchanted Forest.

[Curio]

I'm still hoping she originated in some other world.

Maybe the black and white world that Whale came from?

I'd guess that there's a 1920s-ish jazz age world somewhere out there. Tiana and Naveen are probably there, too.

 

Regarding the new sneak peek video - I love seeing Snow and Charming riding horses together. Heck, I love it when anyone rides a horse on this show. I don't know why, it just adds to the enchantment/other world factor.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

 

Are they now saying that she's since backslid and wasn't really redeemed?

I think they actually mean she did backslide at one point, as she did in the show. Right now she's just MIA. But yes, Scarlet Beauty makes me gag. I love Anatasia's arc too. 

 

 

Maybe the black and white world that Whale came from? It also seemed a bit not of the Enchanted Forest.

That's what I was thinking. Or she was simply an eccentric millionaire from the Land Without Magic back in the 70s and somehow got to EF.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[RadioGirl27]

 

By the way, Adam just released the title for 4x20:  "Mother."  Cora, anyone?

You have to love how they aren't even trying anymore with the titles (first Lily, now Mother, who bets the next one would be The Author).

 

The way Lily (or whoever she is) is looking at the Charmings in this pic makes me think that their secret has something to do with whatever happened to her.

[orza]

They probably put her under the ice curse for this reason, so the length of time she'd have to fake it would be less unbelievable.

It had more to do with the fact that Christie Laing was off filming eight episodes of another show and was unavailable for most for the 4A filming time frame.

 

There were a ton of clues in 3B foreshadowing this twist with Zelena. We saw her obsession to co-opt Regina's life. her duplicity to get close to the the Charmings, her ambiguous "death",and that she can think on her feet to adapt to new situations. The rest of the story will unfold in 4B.

 

I think think it's fine that they just leave a bunch of small clues for viewers to put together and don't telegraph everything in big letters so even the most inattentive viewers pick up on it. I love A & E's nonlinear style of storytelling as a puzzle to fit together over several seasons, but it's not for everyone. People who only watch for one character/couple or fast-forward through scenes of characters they don't like miss a lot.

[pezgirl7]

I talked to my mom who has watched the show from the beginning, and she said she's done with it. It's getting "too stupid". She then asked me "Why do you watch it? Is it because of Hook? Do you like Hook?" DUH.

 

Here are some cute photos from yesterday's filming, for those not on tumblr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/katmtan/sets/72157648834693673/

 

Does anyone know where I can see the video of Rebecca handing out candy to fans, and Colin and Sean telling her to stop? All the links on tumblr are broken.

[Curio]

I think think it's fine that they just leave a bunch of small clues for viewers to put together and don't telegraph everything in big letters so even the most inattentive viewers pick up on it.

 

I don't think anyone's asking for giant anvils or obvious clues, we're looking for any clues in 4A that would have led to this. I think we can all agree 3B left some bread crumb trails that hinted towards the story going in this direction, but where it starts to fall apart is the way Marian was portrayed in 4A. The only clue I can really think of is Robin's True Love's Kiss not working, otherwise, (IMO) the actress didn't do a good enough job of portraying her as a mole. Even in the Ariel episode, there were subtle hints where if you looked back at it, it gave you an 'aha' moment where the details clicked together that it was actually Zelena (e.g. "Ariel" hugging Hook really long and making him feel uncomfortable). But I'm struggling to find those moments in 4A. That's why I'm curious to see if the writers never told Christie about the plot twist until her final script.

[kili]

There were a ton of clues in 3B foreshadowing this twist with Zelena. We saw her obsession to co-opt Regina's life. her duplicity to get close to the the Charmings, her ambiguous "death",and that she can think on her feet to adapt to new situations. The rest of the story will unfold in 4B.

 

I disagree. That's not a ton of clues. You could take all of those clues and say that Zelena is Regina. That she pulled a fast switcheroo with Regina during the 3B finale. Wanting to co-opt Regina's life (check), duplicity in getting close to the Charmings (check), ambiguous death (check), quick at thinking on her feet (check). She's Regina. Nobody notices because Regina can still do magic. It would explain why she is hanging around the crypt all the time stealing all those magical things of Regina's. Why hang out around the house and be subjected to her sisters austere fashion? BONUS: It completely explains why Regina was avoiding Henry earlier in 4A and why she was happy to send him to work for dangerous Rumple. She's getting it on with a married man because she's trying to ruin Regina's reputation. Maybe she was even Regina during the flashback portions and that was some more Regina reputation ruining. Real Regina was off sobbing in a pillow about some kid refusing to be adopted by her while Zelena-Regina was capturing Marian, imprisoning people and burning Snow at the stake. It would also explain why Regina suddenly has healing powers she lacked before.  And she is chasing off the Snow/Emma friendships because she doesn't want to be detected.

 

Or Zelena is Henry. He just happened to find the Author's secret lair of empty books? Yes, sure.  That took some powerful magic (I can argue in retrospect). It totally explains why he's making romantic gift baskets for Regina (Zelenry was trying to encourage Regina to ruin her own reputation) and why he was so gung-ho about the Author story (why not encourage Regina to look like a stupid lunatic?). Working for Rumple has given Zelenry a great opportunity to steal magical stuff from the shop and keep tabs on Rumple.

 

Or Zelena is Robin. Totally. Again, completely wrecks Regina's reputation while toying with her emotions. Surely the real Robin isn't that feckless - I'm with her but no I'm with you but no I'm with her- how about I be with both of you - but not really. Mwahahaha! That's why Will had to remind Robena about how Robin and Marian met and how much she sacrificed for him - what normal person would use that as an incentive to go cheat on the woman?

 

Note that all three plans are more likely to be successful than the convoluted  Zelena is Marian scheme which has so many points of failure its ridiculous.

 

There is pulling a twist and there is pulling stuff out of your butt. One is fun, the other is a cheat.

Edited March 4, 2015 by kili

[Crimson Belle]

Kili, that is the most rational and logical explanation for why Robin is a complete and total asshole.  He was Zelena the entire time.

[FurryFury]

So adultery would be switched for incest? Sadly, this isn't Game of Thrones.

[Watt]

It's too bad this show would fuck it up, but it'd be kind of cool if they made the Author Disney himself. But Disney is bigger than Elsa and Anna combined and I don't think they would let them near him. Too much of an icon.

What other Disney characters are there that could be made to work that aren't already used?

[Mari]

Oh, for God's sake, Maleficient is totally Lily's mother. I cannot believe they're going back to the secret relative thing after they were relentlessly mocked for it.

I wonder if this is the ep Cora is back for? Regina and Zelena gotta work out their effed-up family issues.

Well, if Cora isn't in that episode, there's going to be at least one devastated viewer. The responses on that tweet were unsettling.

I think the suggestion that it features Cora and Makeficent-the-mom makes the most sense right now.

I'd guess that there's a 1920s-ish jazz age world somewhere out there. Tiana and Naveen are probably there, too.

That would make a lot of sense. Why didn't they do that? Oh. . I forgot. TS,TW.

A while back in the thread, someone pointed out that making Marian Zelena brings up consent issues again, and that the writers would want to stay away from that like the plague. I don't think that's the case, as they do not seem to fully have internalized that men can be the sex victims of women. They still don't seem to understand the problem in Graham/Regina--even in the preview show, there were comments about Regina being seductive in that relationship.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Mari

[orza]

The most noticeable thing for me that was off about Marion was that she did not act like a person who was suddenly reunited with the two people she loved more than anything in the world. She especially did not act like a mother reunited with her child, or even act like a mother at all. The little gestures of a loving mother who is overjoyed to be with her child again were missing. I would expect a show of some very heartfelt feelings from a someone who had just been through a hair-raising adventure and thought she was gonna die without seeing her beloved family again.

 

Also, Christie is not such a great actress so part of it is just what you get from an actor with limited range.

[Shanna Marie]

I think they actually mean she did backslide at one point, as she did in the show. Right now she's just MIA.

So the failed redemption was when she went from Wicked Stepsister to falling in love with Will, breaking from her mother and swearing that she'd rather be poor and in love than rich but without her love, then she backslid when she decided to marry the king and be wealthy, and then she was really redeemed? I could kind of go with that, except the way they phrased the spoiler made it sound like Will is currently heartbroken and needing a reason to smile again because his love wasn't as redeemed as he thought. If she's just MIA but still redeemed, then what in the hell is he doing kissing Belle? They already ruined Robin Hood. Now they're going to ruin one of the few couples in this universe who really worked?

 

I have a really hard time with believing that Zelena could have maintained the ruse of being Marian, especially the last bit where she gave Regina her blessing to be with Robin. Zelena didn't have a subtle bone in her body and her defining character trait was extreme jealousy, especially of Regina. I can't imagine Zelena would even be able to think of such a subtle torture as letting Regina think she was going to get Robin before dragging him away. It was also having a lot of faith in both Regina and Robin that they'd even think of moving her outside the town line to save her and that they'd decide Robin should go with her. Would she really be so sure of Regina's "goodness" that she'd count on Regina doing the right thing instead of celebrating the loss of her rival? And how would it benefit Zelena to be stuck in the World Without Magic, presumably with no power, with Robin (whom she probably really doesn't like all that much) while Regina gets to look like a martyred hero for doing the right thing and Zelena doesn't even get to watch her suffer? It would have been more in character for Zelena to declare that she was going to fight for her husband and keep him away from Regina, then stay in town to enjoy Robin and Regina's suffering.

[YaddaYadda]

So just to get away from the whole Zelenagate, am I the only one who is getting the impression that Emma going "dark" will be just a blip on the radar?  I know we don't see much of the filming, but it seems like the focus of the show is most definitely elsewhere.  I know we have 2 episodes left after this one for filming but still...

[LizaD]

How can you say the writers didn't pull it out of their asses? When they were asked about Zelena's death back after 3B they said she was most definitely dead. Only now did they go oopsie, take backs are allowed! I think it was the D23 interview. They admitted themselves that they thought of a cool story for Zelena during S4, after they killed her off, and that's the reason they brought her back. That's straight from the horses' mouths.

 

I don't believe it was planned in S3 at all. Their plan was to go with some kind of Woegina/Frozen-Elsa story until Disney nixed it.

Edited March 4, 2015 by LizaD