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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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“The tables are turned” for the Storybrooke lovebirds when “Hook, after having Emma return his heart, will now have to fight to protect Emma’s heart.”

This writers surely like to repeat themselves. It's getting so frustrating. For once I would like to see Emma fighting for him (and rudely shoving his heart back in his chest is not fighting for him).

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Does Adam's hint mean Emma's heart is literally in danger; therefore, Hook has to fight to physically protect it? Or does he mean metaphorically, Emma becomes heartbroken because of some event, so Hook has to fight to protect her on an emotional level? If it's the first option, that's actually intriguing because that means whatever protected Emma's heart from being taken by Cora doesn't work anymore. If it's the latter...then...yeah. We've seen that a billion times already.

 

Why am I over-thinking this? Their whole plot line will be resolved with a quick make out session anyways.

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Oh A&E suck donkey balls since Hook actually tried to save Emma's life literally and her shoving his heart back in his chest really doesn't count.  Doesn't matter how much of a moron he is.

 

We know Emma's heart can't be taken (Rumple also knows that).  Rumple tried to hat Emma because she is powerful and has not even achieved her full potential and from what JMo said, Emma should be getting even more powerful.  What if this fight for her "heart" is about R&Co trying to turn Emma dark.  Her magic is special and if Rumple needed her because it would have cut him loose that much quicker from his dagger, then maybe getting Emma over to the dark side means that they achieve their goal that much more quickly.

 

CS and Snowing have been paralleling each other, so...

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Interesting spoiler, but not something I put a lot of faith in right now. Given her desire to go drink with Regina, maybe Hook needs to save her liver?

 

Again, same debate given his love for his rum.  Shouldn't she be saving his liver first?

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What if this fight for her "heart" is about R&Co trying to turn Emma dark.  Her magic is special and if Rumple needed her because it would have cut him loose that much quicker from his dagger, then maybe getting Emma over to the dark side means that they achieve their goal that much more quickly.

 

Actually, Emma having to resort to using dark magic to defeat Rumple and the Queens of Darkness could be really interesting. If Emma found a dark magic spell that could defeat them all, I could see Emma justifying dipping into some darkness if she's trying to help save the greater good. And then Hook would leave her a heartfelt message on her phone trying to convince her that her lightness can still defeat the bad guys, Rumple would delete the message, and then Hook would walk in on Regina giving Emma the exact same pep talk he was attempting to tell her while they're sharing drinks at the Rabbit Hole...

Edited by Curio
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Actually, Emma having to resort to using dark magic to defeat Rumple and the Queens of Darkness could be really interesting.

I've thought this before. What if Emma accidentally used dark magic out of being angry? What would she think of it? What would everyone else think of it?

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Actually, Emma having to resort to using dark magic to defeat Rumple and the Queens of Darkness could be really interesting. If Emma found a dark magic spell that could defeat them all, I could see Emma justifying dipping into some darkness if she's trying to help save the greater good.

 

It's not even entirely impossible at this point given how worried her parents were that Regina was teaching Emma magic especially during the Neverland arc and they opted to trust that Emma knew what she was doing and then you had Neal's reaction to Regina teaching Emma magic.  Maybe it's one of those Easter eggs the writers are so fond of.

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How is that turning the tables? Unless that is a 360 degree turn of the tables. She spends the entire season completely oblivious to his heart issue and then spends one 23 second scene shoving his heart back in. What, is his "fighting to protect Emma's heart" going to consist of? Spending one 23 second scene convincing her not to eat a french fry?

 

And OMG!!!!!ELEVENTY-ONE!!!!Somebody's heart is in need of protection. What a novel new concept for this show. It's nice we are getting such new and innovative plot ideas this season. Not at all old plots wearing a new (re-casted) hat.

 

Emma didn't save Hook's heart, and a little scene of her putting it back in, doesn't mean she even rescued it.  He caught it in his hand and they didn't even put it back until they were in Granny's hallways?  Did he just walk around town with it for a while?  We've seen no lasting concern from Emma about heartless Hook or even pre Date Hook beyond "I can't lose you."  I'm sick of Hook telling her not to worry because he's a "survivor" because there are sometimes where she should worry like almost all of 3a when he was in cahoots with the Dark One for no apparent reason beyond getting his hand back for a night. Ugh.

 

As for protecting Emma's heart, I have a hard time believing that Emma's is rosy red to begin with.  We know that Emma's willing to dive into at least a grey area when it comes to saving Henry.  I don't know that she'd do it for anyone else.  We also know that Hook is willing to do what it takes (even begrudgingly now).  Perhaps one of the Queens threatens Henry and Emma considers going dark.  Maybe Rumple convinces her, but she's always kinda had his number.  I just can't think of what Hook could possibly do to save her Heart, perhaps we'll get a True Love's Kiss afterall? 

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ETOnline interview with A&E about the QoD:

 

Not only are we definitely going to discover how the Queens of Darkness ended up outside of the town's limits, we’re also going to learn that each malevolent lady has a hidden past with Regina.

 

 

You here that, guys? Your favorite characters will be getting even more screen time in these upcoming episodes. (Pssst! We're talking to you, Evil Regals.)

 

We called it.

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The journalism school graduate in me is cringing at supposedly professional writing from an actual news organization that reads like it was written by a tween girl and that uses "here" in place of "hear."

 

And if this is the kind of "professional" critical response they're listening to, no wonder the show is the way it is.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how Hook fighting for Emma is any kind of reversal.

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That's bleak. But then again, we could be wrong, after all we already knew that Regina had a past with Mal and Ursula. Cruella seems a bit off but whatever.

I'm wondering about the phrasing of the villains being outside the town Line....because Maleficent...isn't. She's under the library. I seriously hope they don't screw that up.

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Good god, was that article written by a middle school intern? "Then" vs "Than." "Here" vs "Hear." I'm pretty sure I knew the differences between those words in grade school.
 

Not only are we definitely going to discover how the Queens of Darkness ended up outside of the town's limits, we’re also going to learn that each malevolent lady has a hidden past with Regina.

Didn't we already know Regina has a past with two of them? The only one who was in question was Cruella. But of course Regina would know all of them.
 

Not only are we going to see Maleficent's relationship with Regina, fans will also discover that the wicked fairy also has ties to a many more of our Storybrooke residents.

Again, we already knew Maleficent has ties with several of our "core" characters.

 

Why not spread some of the flashback love around to some more of our "core" characters? Maleficent can be Regina's main big bad, Ursula can be Hook's, and Cruella can tie in with Snow and David. But no, all three have to be tied to Regina the most.

 

Are the writers freaking out because they didn't give Regina any flashbacks in 4A, so now they're going into overdrive for 4B and giving her a full season's worth in 11 episodes? Am I going to need to ditch my wine and drink harder liquor this half season? Probably yes to both.

Edited by Curio
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Am I going to need to ditch my wine and drink harder liquor this half season?

Now I'm glad I bought that bottle of rum.

 

And you know, if the ratings tank, they'll figure it was because of that scene where Emma was present, not because it became All About Regina. And then soon Regina episodes will be the highest rated (of overall low ratings) because they'll have driven off all but the partisans.

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"I would say that our twist on Cruella is that she isn’t necessarily that crazy woman from that Disney movie," Horowitz explained. "Our version of Cruella — you'll learn quickly — has origins that trace back to the Enchanted Forest and that there is some power to be had with her."

Looks like they plan on ruining Cruella. She's going to be a Regina clone, just like the other Queens. Fashionable snarky witch who loves to taunt manically in your face... where have we seen this before? Sigh, she's one of my favorite villains, too.

 

 

I suspect the majority of casual viewers like Regina. Hell, I like Regina when she's evil and snarky, just not wallowing and complaining.

Yeah, I agree. I think people left in 2B because of the whining and whitewashing, not necessarily because of the Regina focus.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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The Queens of Darkness are certainly going to shake things up in Storybrooke, but fans will also be introduced to a few new characters as well. "I think there will be new characters popping in and out, but more the most part it's going to be focusing on our core characters," Horowitz confessed.

Thye don't see the contradiction here, do they? If you have three new villains and you are going to introduce new characters, how are you going to focus on the core characters? They should stop pretending and tell the truth: they are going to focus in two core characters (Rumple and Regina) and sideline the rest in boring subplots about power plants and babies, or repeated storylines that doesn't add anything new.

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I suspect the majority of casual viewers like Regina. Hell, I like Regina when she's evil and snarky, just not wallowing and complaining.

But how long has it been since we've seen evil, snarky Regina instead of wallowing, complaining Regina? And I'm afraid that either they'll hold back on showing the evil while she's campaigning for her happy ending, or else they'll end up with some serious cognitive dissonance, since the search for the author plot because she believes she deserves a happy ending doesn't seem to be meant to be at all ironic. So either we'll just see whining, wallowing Saint Regina, the biggest victim who ever victimed, with the Queens of Darkness being used to show how much worse they are than she is, so really she's just a lamb in comparison, or they'll be juxtaposing full-on Evil Queen with whiny St. Regina and trying to tell us that she deserves to be happier than her victims. Neither way sounds fun to me. About the only way I could tolerate more Regina is if she reverts to full-on evil and the show is willing to call it that.

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But how long has it been since we've seen evil, snarky Regina instead of wallowing, complaining Regina? And I'm afraid that either they'll hold back on showing the evil while she's campaigning for her happy ending, or else they'll end up with some serious cognitive dissonance, since the search for the author plot because she believes she deserves a happy ending doesn't seem to be meant to be at all ironic. So either we'll just see whining, wallowing Saint Regina, the biggest victim who ever victimed, with the Queens of Darkness being used to show how much worse they are than she is, so really she's just a lamb in comparison, or they'll be juxtaposing full-on Evil Queen with whiny St. Regina and trying to tell us that she deserves to be happier than her victims. Neither way sounds fun to me. About the only way I could tolerate more Regina is if she reverts to full-on evil and the show is willing to call it that.

I assume at least the flashbacks will be evil Regina. And if she is indeed double-agenting, she will at least be pretending to be evil. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this, but I'm actually cautiously optimistic that Regina plus the trio has potential to be fun, for awhile at least.

 

But regardless, I'm not sure the masses are bothered by wallowing Regina the way we are here. Personally, I don't think "too much Regina" will be the thing that kills this show's ratings, per se.

 

I do wonder how interested the average viewer is in the author plot line, though. I assume the normal people just want varying doses of romance, humor, action, and "Hey it's <fairytale character>!" moments, and I'm not sure the author plot line will bring any of those. It certainly didn't last season. 

Edited by retrograde
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I thought the whole point of shattered sight and especially with Regina's reaction after the curse broke was that she was basically done with the whole evil side of who she was, so whatever she is doing with R&Co, she's doing it for the greater good (I know, snerk!).  It's easier to buy that she could turn back to her old ways after Robin left and Rumple so happened to come pay her a visit at the town line when Robin is leaving.  

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But regardless, I'm not sure the masses are bothered by wallowing Regina the way we are here. Personally, I don't think "too much Regina" will be the thing that kills this show's ratings, per se.

 

I doubt "too much Regina" will kill the ratings, either. For the most part, I think the general audience doesn't really pay too close attention to the show's details and the characters, so things like the irony behind Regina yelling at Emma for ruining her budding romance with a married man is completely lost on them. But as a fan who does pay attention and actually cares about how the writers are crafting these characters, reading these 4B spoilers is just making me cringe. I get that Regina is their favorite, but how many stinking flashbacks does she need at this point? Imagine if the amount of time Regina is probably going to get was actually spent on Charming or Snow, supposedly "core" characters? It would seem like a completely different show at this point. I think I wouldn't be so pessimistic about these spoilers if Adam & Eddy just stopped lying to the fans and finally admitted this show's true "core characters" are Regina, Emma, the Evil Queen, and a splash of Rumple. Everyone else is just eye candy to help those three (err, four?) out.

Edited by Curio
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3B featured five fairybacks that were essentially all about Regina. They just disguised some of them as Zelena's story. It makes sense that they would do the same with the Queens of Darkness. Making all three of them as Regina's nemeses or frenemies or whatever, each with their own story featuring her, becomes tedious because no matter how much you like Regina, too much focus on any one character is never good - unless the show is inherently about that character. Once is not that kind of show. Not to mention they are limiting the backstories by linking specifically to the Evil Queen. The Evil Queen has basically one persona, so having her repeat her antics over and over and over with each villain is tedious. If you spread it out so that Hook has a past with Ursula, Regina with Maleficent and Rumpel with Cruella, you get three distinct stories because each of the core cast villains has a different personality and different responses to things.

 

I like Regina when she's gray and snarky (though the snark needs to stay on the fun side, not nasty personal attacks), but it needs to be in limited doses. Six out of eleven episodes focusing on Regina and her past as the Evil Queen is not entertaining, mostly because I know it won't tread any new ground.  I'm getting less and less interested in 4B by the day.

Edited by KAOS Agent
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An script tease from Adam. I think it's a flashback.

 

If you love them and they love you, they will always find you?  Why would they do a flashback in Storybrooke?  I was going to say that it wouldn't make sense, but then I remember what show I'm watching.

 

I saw the CS "clip" taken by a fan.  There's clearly something off with Emma, the way she goes into that hug, she seems to be distressed.

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If you love them and they love you, they will always find you? Why would they do a flashback in Storybrooke? I was going to say that it wouldn't make sense, but then I remember what show I'm watching.

Well, with the August spoiler, I suppose he could have done some snooping around SB before Emma. There's also the fact Maleficent was under the library, so maybe Regina did something with her to explain why she was kept in dragon form. There's also the question of why the Queens were in the Land Without Magic... Regina could have sent them over the town line.

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Probably upset that she's being hugged by Stalker McGee.

 

Technically, isn't everyone involved with Operation Mongoose stalkers now? You've got to feel bad for the guy (or gal), so many people are going to be stalking that stupid author in 4B and trying to find his location just so they can selfishly ask for a huge "favor" from him, when they don't even know 100% if he can grant them that favor to begin with.

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I guess Hook will always be a stalker to some people, if he and Emma are happily married with children.

 

Has it been said yet why Emma's heart wasn't able to be ripped out of her chest? I thought there was something about Snow and Maleficent and magic, but I can't remember if that was speculation or not. My memory of season 1 is super fuzzy. Maybe the Queens of Darkness are trying to undo whatever magic is protecting Emma's heart so they take it and use it. For what purpose, I have no idea.

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No one knew that Emma's heart could not be taken, including Rumple.  And so far, we know nothing of a Snow/Maleficent back story even though we know it's coming.   That was all speculation.  I'm not sure Emma's heart can be taken period, because of who and what she is.  Maybe we'll get an explanation for that eventually, when the writers have figured out themselves because knowing them, they don't know the reason for that just yet.

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I suspect the spoiler about Hook protecting her heart is more figurative than literal. Because heaven knows a hero having a dark spot on their heart is worse than anything. Given their love of Snowing/CS parallels, I could see it being akin to when Charming stepped in front of Snow's arrow to keep her from killing Regina and darkening her heart.

Edited by Souris
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I suspect the spoiler about Hook protecting her heart is more figurative than literal. Because heaven knows a hero having a dark spot on their heart is worse than anything. Given their love of Snowing/CS parallels, I could see it being akin to when Charming stepped in front of Snow's arrow to keep her from killing Regina and darkening her heart.

It could also be something like keeping her from losing hope -- based on that one scene, for instance, she could be despairing and he's fighting to keep hope alive in her.

 

Not that this would be new and different for them, but this show, these writers.

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I suspect the spoiler about Hook protecting her heart is more figurative than literal. Because heaven knows a hero having a dark spot on their heart is worse than anything. Given their love of Snowing/CS parallels, I could see it being akin to when Charming stepped in front of Snow's arrow to keep her from killing Regina and darkening her heart.

I wish the show had the guts to have Emma go dark. We already know she is willing to get her hands dirty in ways that Snow isn't, and that she has a lot of pent up anger. She blew open the side of the sheriff station wothout really trying and that was still white magic. It would be incredibly intriguing for Emma to decide to fight fire with fire, go dark to destroy/defeat the Queens and Rumple, but then for Hook and the Charmings to have to pull her back from the brink and essentially save the town and her from herself.

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Dark!Emma is something I would not mind seeing just because you know, drama.  Emma's magic seems to be a pretty big deal this season anyway, JMo said that Emma would grow more powerful.  I've always had the impression that Rumple was maybe a bit scared of her or at the very least wary of her.  

 

Actually what I want to see is Emma becoming strong enough to take on Rumple.  I still remember that line Regina said to Rumple in Season 3 about how they are the two most powerful magic practitioners ever (I always thought Cora was a hell of a lot more powerful than Regina, but whatever).  I want Emma to take on Rumple for manipulating her, trying to throw her in the hat, wanting to take her son away and trying to kill her boyfriend, not to mention everything else.  Rumple isn't exactly headed towards Redemptionville anyway.

 

Also, season 1, Rumple mentioning the final battle.  Obviously, now that the writers have a permaboner for Regina and her redemption and this "ugh!friendship" they're trying to push, then the final battle between Emma and her is out of the question.  So Emma vs Rumple for the series finale?  

 

I know, too much to hope for.

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I am very much hoping Emma does not ever go dark, simply because she is a member of the White family. Even good deeds--if they impact the wrong character--are considered evil beyond the telling, if you're part of that bloodline. If Emma were to actually go dark, the series would not ever consider her redeemed. She would be considered more evil than Regina and Rumple in a giant evil Sundae with Ursula and Maleficent sauce.

Edited by Mari
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If Emma were to actually go dark, the series would not ever consider her redeemed. She would be considered more evil than Regina and Rumple in a giant evil Sundae with Ursula and Maleficent sauce.

That would be my concern, as well. While a storyline about the dangers of magic on the state of the soul and the way that magic can be dark or light depending on the intent might be interesting in theory, on this show it would just end up as yet another way to show how much better Regina really is. On this show, Emma could go "dark" just by doing what it takes to defeat the villains and save innocent lives. There would be angst about whether she was angry when she did it or whether she could have found a better way.

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I don't want Emma to go dark, because it would only be used as yet another way to prop up Regina and show that she isn't so bad and that the heroes are just like her. So bow down to her, you stupid viewers! The heroes suck and are even more evil!

 

And then Emma would crawl to Regina and beg her to help her deal with her trauma of doing something bad.

 

There's zero chance that this show could ever handle it well.

Edited by Souris
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You know, given that Emma fighting for Hook's heart amounted to her noticing that something was wrong with him, not doing anything about it, then discovering his heart was about to be crushed a split-second before it happened, being frozen so she couldn't do anything to save him, and then later shoving his heart into his armpit before heading off to do shots with Regina, Hook fighting for Emma's heart will likely amount to yet another "You're a bloody hero, Swan, don't give up" pep talk, after which she'll be frozen while someone else (probably Regina) defeats the bad guys. Emma and Hook will maybe get one quick kiss or embrace in the happy ending aftermath, but the focus will be on the scene in which she goes to tell Regina how awesome she is.

 

Then when viewers complain about how lame that is, the writers will say they can't write 40-minute makeout scenes for us.

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I don't want Emma to go dark, because it would only be used as yet another way to prop up Regina and show that she isn't so bad and that the heroes are just like her. So bow down to her, you stupid viewers!

Yeah, this is exactly what would happen, so, even if the idea of Emma going dark is interesting, I hope they stay far away from it. A&E, and the rest of the writers, are incapable of handling this type of storyline.

The spoiler about Hook protecting Emma's heart is not even a spoiler. That's what he's been doing for the last season and a half. What bothers me about it is how it's worded, as if Emma had done something to save Hook's heary from Rumple and we all know that's not what happened in 4A. But it seems the writers don't see that way. Or maybe they think that if the say it multiple times the fans would believe it. Hey, it's working with Regina's "redemption".

Edited by RadioGirl27
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as if Emma had done something to save Hook's heary from Rumple and we all know that's not what happened in 4A.

 

The issue is that we didn't get to see or find out what Emma actually knew after her chat with Anna.  We have no idea why she was in the clock tower.  Did she find out Rumple was trying to separate himself from the dagger?  Did she put 2 and 2 together and figure out that Hook no longer had his heart?  That being said, even though it was a ridiculous plot point, Emma gave up her magic to save Hook last season.  She was the one everyone was counting on to save the town where her son and her parents live.  She decided to save Hook.

 

Yes, plot point to open it up for Regina but still...

 

There's a whole list of things Emma has done to save Hook.  No, she may not be fawning all over him, but she has saved him...a lot.  Much as I was pissed at the end of 4A, I'm sure there's a very valid reason why they did it the way they did it with their 26 seconds of slamming the heart back in and calling it a day.

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I'm sure there's a very valid reason why they did it the way they did it with their 26 seconds of slamming the heart back in and calling it a day.

 

They ran out of time?

 

What kind of valid reason do you suspect? I truthfully can't come up with a single good one.

Edited by Souris
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I'm not saying that Emma hasn't done anything for Hook ever, or that she hasn't saved him before. But the spoiler specifically talks about the heart, and in that particular case Emma did nothing.

And about why they did it that way, it's because the storyline was never about Hook and Emma but about Rumple and Belle. Hook was just a prop in Rumple's story.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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Hook, after having Emma return his heart, will now have to fight to protect Emma’s heart

 

I immediately flashed on the scene where Emma said 'I thought we were the good guys' on finding out about Cora's history with Snow's Mom.  Between Snow fearing Emma's magic and letting her near Neal, August returning, and insinuating that the QoD are going to make us question who are the villians vs. heroes in the same breath as talking about a history with the Charmings,  I feel like Hook finds out something David or Snow did in EF or Stroybrooke that Emma would see as further abandonment or them not loving her and he tries to protect her from it or make her believe she's not unlovable.  Oh wait, that would be exploring character relationships, never mind.

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Yeah, I should have reworded my post to I wish the show had "the capability" to have Emma go dark. It would have been interesting, but not in these hands.

If Hook and Emma parallel Snow and Charming, and he's supposed to protect her heart, then I expect to see a scene where Hook pleads for Emma not to kill a villain. For whatever black heart reasons. *hurl things at screen*

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