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Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

regularlyleaded

By regularlyleaded
in Once Upon A Time

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Amerilla

Amerilla

Evil Rumple is so good, and I have zero interest in seeing some sob story explaining it all away. Also, I thought the justification was "he's a magic addict" not "he has magic PTSD"? I really hope this is just headcannon/background stuff for the writer, and not something we will see play out on screen.

 

No, I think it's the usual case of the writers thinking they're telling a story that isn't translating their actual scripts. If they actually wrote cohesive stories - as opposed to their usual method of throwing random plot points against a wall and seeing what sticks - you really have to tell a story about magic PTSD. They had him kill his own father. They had him DIE and come back. They had him watch the son he had spent hundreds of years trying to find die. They had him held prisoner. They had him get married. Every single one of these things is traumatizing to the character they created. So, it's logical that pain and grief would drive him to do whatever he had to to make sure this shit never happens again.

 

What they showed us was him vowing to to his dead son that he'd be a better man, a quick dance and implied shag with the new missus, and "ohh...shiny." Suddenly we're off on a blow this pop stand/world domination bender. It's plot-driven, not emotion-driven.

 

(While I understand the affection for Evil Rumpel, I myself don't find it that appealing over the long haul. If I want to see crappy people doing crappy things to innocent bystanders, I'll just spend an afternoon in my local DMV.)

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Camera One
Camera One

When everyone realized Rumple and Regina weren't coming back, they had a big celebration and put on a cloaking spell so they can never be found or contacted ever again.

Curio
Curio

At least someone is freaking out over Emma's darkness. Keep giving a shit, Hook! You're pretty much the only one who does...

Serena
Serena

HER GRANDMA IS EMMA! Are they being serious with this?

kili

kili

Whereas Marian waking up is surely going to impact Robin heavily.

 

He made his choice when he crypted up with Regina (twice) and invited her home for pancakces with his son. Then, he suddenly found out that he could do some research when it involves helping his girlfriend, while all he could do is drink and play darts not even bothering to find out where the library was when he could have tried something to help his wife.

 

If he dares to try to claim to be doing on the honorable thing and going back to defrosted Marian, I shall barf all over my TV. There is no longer any honor in pretending with Marian anymore. It is dishonorable to continue to string her along. Let your douche banner fly, Robin. It is now more honorable to get it with your wife's murderer - perfectly illustrating what a piece of work you are.

 

He can go back to the EF for his son, but not for Marian.

 

If they are getting on a boat to get back to the EF, I hope it is the Jolly Roger. Sven has been ruling Arendelle all these years and has a cache of beans. He traded for the ship and will now ride to the rescue (one bean to get to Storybrooke and one to get home)

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

 

"In the Enchanted Forest, things gets classically evil as we face off against an embarrassment of witches."

 

This is very interesting. I had assumed that the trio of 4B villainesses will be released via the Fantasia Hat in Storybrooke. Maybe that's how it still happens, but the un-Hatting occurs in the Enchanted Forest. Maybe Rumple goes to the Enchanted Forest if/when he and Belle break-up. Or the portal that takes takes Elsa and co. to Arendell is two-way, and the Witchees hitch a ride on the way back.

 

Sending Robin back to the EF with Marian and Roland may be one way to temporarily break-up OQ. Maybe a bunch of people decide to go back home to their respective Fairy Tale Lands rather than stay put in Storybrooke. 4B could flash back and forth between the action happening in Storybrooke and the characters who went back to Enchanted Forest. 

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

Who called Merrin Dungey as Ursula? Congrats! You win an Adam and Eddy dolls that says "Regina is the biggest victim in the show"

 

If Ursula was in the Hat, that would explain why she hasn't been seen for 1000s of years (but could still speak through a statue?). Maybe the Sorcerer is also inside the Hat, but could still speak to his Apprentice.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

Ursulla, Mal and Cruella?  This is such an odd combination and 3 villains plus Rumple for 11 episodes seems to be way, way too short.

 

With three sob-stories per villain, the flashbacks for 4B are almost all taken care of. ;-)

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

With three sob-stories per villain, the flashbacks for 4B are almost all taken care of. ;-)

 

Seeing as Ursula is now in the picture and she was called a sea goddess as opposed to a villain in "Ariel", I'm gonna go on a hunch and say that she is who Hook traded his ship to for that magic bean.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

Seeing as Ursula is now in the picture and she was called a sea goddess as opposed to a villain in "Ariel", I'm gonna go on a hunch and say that she is who Hook traded his ship to for that magic bean.

 

Interesting hypothesis! I guess being a goddess doesn't grant you realm-jumping powers (only special people like Zelena and the Apprentice can create portals out of thin air). Is she coming for Regina because she impersonated her? Will all 4B villains have a vendetta against Regina (that would be boring). 

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

I'm thinking that Ursula might tie into the two things that we know are coming for Hook, his father and his ship.

 

Why is Rumple rounding up villains or would be villains though?  Just when I thought he had really gone off the deep end last episode!

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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

So no YNB playing Ursula? That makes me kind of sad. I get that she has a lot going on right now, but still :( . Cruella looks awesome. Maybe one of the 3 ladies' storyline will carry over into season 5? I mean, that is quite a number of villains to keep track of, so maybe the heroes end up forgetting about one of them? Wonder if we'll see Ariel again at all in 4b.

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SiobhanJW

SiobhanJW

(edited)

I'm curious to see if anyone else in Storybrooke (besides Gold) who knows who Cruella is. I can't imagine her living in the Enchanted Forest. Is this going to be the first Villian that Emma knows of that no one else does.

I'm excited for this Arc. It sounds like it could be pretty awesome.

Edited by SiobhanJW
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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

(edited)

I'm thinking that Ursula might tie into the two things that we know are coming for Hook, his father and his ship.

 

Why is Rumple rounding up villains or would be villains though?  Just when I thought he had really gone off the deep end last episode!

 

I will be thrilled if Ursula is connected to Hook's past/backstory. 

 

I guess everyone turned against Rumple in Storybrooke, and he is rounding up sub-villains to further his plans of World-domination or whatever it is that he wants. I feel that we were cheated out of that final-battle with Regina that Rumple promised. I would love for the rest of series to be the good guys battling Rumple and his cohort of bad guys. But please no redemption for him unless it's Darth Vader style last minute sacrificial (and permanent) death. 

 

ETA: 

It's finally happening!

And that image still works if Rumple still has Hook's heart.

 

That link doesn't work, but I saw it referred to Mickey's House of Villains. Wikipedia entry says: It is Halloween night at the House of Mouse, and a lot of villains are showing up. Jafar has a trick in store for the usual heroes of the House, but the villains have to wait until midnight for him to unleash it. After a series of cartoons, Jafar, along with his new henchmen Captain James Hook, Cruella de Vil, Ursula The Sea Witch and Hades, takes over the house... The rest of the plot description is hilarious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey's_House_of_Villains#Plot). If Jafar and Hades join the mayhem, it might be fantastic madness!

 

ETA: What was up with those links!! Ugh...

Edited by Rumsy4
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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

(edited)

I think Mal will be the general villain (the for everyone villain) since she is somehow linked to everyone.  Regina, Emma "slayed" her dragon form, Hook was down there with her when she was a zombie or whatever, Charming put the potion in her...

 

Ursula and Cruella are probably going to be the sub-villains in this one.

 

So now that they're rushing through the villains of the half-season, who else is there since the show is likely to be renewed through for a fifth season?

 

With three sob-stories per villain, the flashbacks for 4B are almost all taken care of. ;-)

She makes sense, I think.  I mean Hook would be familiar with the lore of the sea.  He travelled beyond where the curse went.  I think it's a strong possibility.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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Souris

Souris

(edited)

I don't think Ruby is actually back. That's a random tweet from a fan who frankly sounds like she's 12? None of the paps or reliable set watchers have spotted her.

 

I don't think she is, either. I saw a post on Tumblr yesterday where the author said somebody was using an old photo of Meghan to say she was there but she wasn't actually on set.

 

If they don't tie Ursula to Hook, I'm going to (all together now ;-) FLIP A TABLE! A sea goddess HAS to be linked to Hook. I'm sad they couldn't get YNB too, but if they really wanted Ursula for multiple eps, I don't see any way she could do it with her situation.

Edited by Souris
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kili

kili

If they don't tie Ursula to Hook, I'm going to (all together now ;-) FLIP A TABLE! A sea goddess HAS to be linked to Hook.

 

Given the timing, it could even be Good Form Killian she encountered. She hasn't been seen for a long time, so she must have been hatted (or whatever) back before Hook went to Neverland. So, if she encountered him, it was during his pre-pirate, frat priate or happy-Milah-pirate days.

 

I'd like to see some more Jones' brother adventures. They had to have done something impressive to have been given the Pegasus sail and such a big job.

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KingOfHearts

KingOfHearts

(edited)

 

Ursula and Cruella are probably going to be the sub-villains in this one.

I hope Ursula and Cruella are three-dimensional characters - not just little Zelena-type minions. I'd prefer dark gray to pure mustache-twirling. That's way too much monologuing for me.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Curio

Curio

(edited)

Who called Merrin Dungey as Ursula? Congrats!

 

Yay!! That was me! :) Proof:

 

I'm assuming she's going to be another "iconic" villain to go along with Maleficent and Cruella. It would be weird if they randomly threw in a lesser-known villain from a DVD sequel or something.

My guess: Ursula.

What do I win?

You win an Adam and Eddy dolls that says "Regina is the biggest victim in the show"

Damn it. Can I trade in my dolls for a Hook action figure instead?

Edited by Curio
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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

TBH, I don't want them to make Ursula evil. She didn't seem evil at all in her flashback - she actually seemed like a reasonable god/person.

They also said she was a sea Goddess, I mean they did not portray her as evil and people were throwing a ball in her honor.  That would have to be a re-write for her to be a villain. 

 

And I don't think she was hatted.  I mean she had gone "missing" but appeared long enough to scare Regina half to death for impersonating her. 

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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

So now that they're rushing through the villains of the half-season, who else is there since the show is likely to be renewed through for a fifth season?

Jafar, horned king, frollo, jabberwocky, hades, heffalumps, woozles, mother gothel, the phony king of england, black fairy, stromboli, a character that everyone previously thought was good but is secretly evil (snow's whole lineage), blue fairy, chernabog, possibly yen sid/the sorcerer, the fates, yzma (she'd be hilarious), madam mim, madame medusa (the rescuers), shan yu...

I thin kyhey still have quite a few possibilities. The only problem is that at this point, you basically need the villain to have magic to stand against Emma/Regina/Rumple. Or the good guys have to be magically neutralized. A lot of the villains I listed are probably more cut out for just an episode appearance (so more like the season 1 structure).

Madam Mim could be fun if they want to go "The Sword in the Stone" route, like they've hinted at. She seemed like a wack-a-doodle from what I can remember.

4b will be quite interesting at least, whether it turns out good or bad. A&E have the potential to let some of the 4b villains bleed into season 5 if they wanted too.

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RadioGirl27

RadioGirl27

 

Jafar, horned king, frollo, jabberwocky, hades, heffalumps, woozles, mother gothel, the phony king of england, black fairy, stromboli, a character that everyone previously thought was good but is secretly evil (snow's whole lineage), blue fairy, chernabog, possibly yen sid/the sorcerer, the fates, yzma (she'd be hilarious), madam mim, madame medusa (the rescuers), shan yu...

I should be old. I don't know who half this people is.

The only ones I had come up were Jafar and Morgana.

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Mari

Mari

It also seems notable that Ursula was not wearing a fairytale style outfit in the scene they filmed last night. Either she has been in our world a while, or she is very adaptable.

The personification of the sea (or ocean) should be very adaptable by nature. 

 

If she's been in our world for a while, where would she have been?  The only thing I can think of is the speculation about "hatted" people being spit into the regular world.

 

It could work if she were spit into the regular world, and only got her regular Ursula memories back when the hat imploded, exploded, whatevered?

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Bluerang1

Bluerang1

(edited)

OMG yess a Cruella! Said it isn't Yvette, but I understand why; another African American is great! The show needs diversity, plu she lowkey looks like the Ursula statue. I wasn't sure how I felt about multiple villians in one 11 epsiode arc but now I'm really excited about it. It's a nice change from the past 3 one villian arcs. Also all three witches couldn't possible die at the end so we might have a new recurring cast member. Also, Ruby <33

Edited by Bluerang1
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HoodlumSheep

HoodlumSheep

The personification of the sea (or ocean) should be very adaptable by nature.

This. This is probably why Killy seems able to adapt pretty well to things. Also why Ariel was able adapt to running around in stilletos so easily. They're used to the ever-changing sea.

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Rumsy4

Rumsy4

And I don't think she was hatted. I mean she had gone "missing" but appeared long enough to scare Regina half to death for impersonating her.

She animated a statue of herself to issue a warning to Regina. She could still have been physically confined someplace. And we all know what happens to unstable beings imprisoned far too long (DQ, Rumple).

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Leia1979

Leia1979

Seeing as Ursula is now in the picture and she was called a sea goddess as opposed to a villain in "Ariel", I'm gonna go on a hunch and say that she is who Hook traded his ship to for that magic bean.

If it turns out I accurately called this in my fanfic back in May, I'm going to be super excited. (The who, as I'm sure the how will be entirely different.)

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sharky

sharky

I'm so excited about these three villains. I wonder if they've stacked the deck for the half season since they plan to perhaps carry at least one of them over to season 5. Having such a deep villain well will allow them to perhaps have a villain that doesn't just get written off at the end of the half season.

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Curio

Curio

Now that we know Rumple is working with a bunch of big-name villains in 4B, I wonder what their game plan is. If Cruella, Ursula, and Maleficent are brought back via the Sorcerer's hat or some other reason in Storybrooke, what reason do they have to stay in Storybrooke? It's not that great of a town. Rumple might start to realize this too and convince them that taking over the Enchanted Forest is a much better prize than some hodunk town in Maine. (And then I can finally get my wish of them leaving Storybrooke for another half season.)

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BoPeeps

BoPeeps

(edited)

Sooo, we come to the Great Wizard Hat Escape portion of ONCE. Great trio of ne'er do wells ;) Though Cruella isn't magic, just disgusting. Pongo, BITE.

 

Burning spoiler questions of the day!

 

Did Rumple get put IN to the hat while the others got OUT? (Ingrid, you crafty thang, were you lying about what the steps were to disarming the dagger???)
Does Ursula *the possible bean trader* know...drum rolllll...Davy Jones??? Is Davy Jones the wizard??? And some seafaring gorgeous dude's *Papa* perchance???

What is the definition of "beloved couples" to Adam and Eddy? Obvious guess is Rumbelle as the shake up, CS as the tested, OQ as the broken apart.

In A&E-speak, Storybrooke saying goodbye to *some* of its own doesn't necessarily mean any of the Beloved Couples involved in the shake-up, testing, break-up does it?

But there really ARE way too many characters running around. And now, there apparently will be lots of spotted dogs running around, too? ;) And an army of flying fish perhaps?

 

Heh heh, good evil nasty times a coming, I HOPE.

 

I just wanna see Emma punch Rumple in the face, twice, Belle knee him in the nether regions and then Hook suck him into the hat, oh...and Marian defreeze, wrap Robin's shaft (heh) and bow around his neck and take Roland to...DIsneyworld. (HA)

Is the Snow Queen (aka the ice cream shop owner) considered one of Storybrooke's own? Technically Hook isn't a Storybrooke original. Nor is Emma.

Edited by BoPeeps
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pezgirl7

pezgirl7

Here are some photos from filming:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/katmtan/sets/72157649301205066/

 

Emma and Regina's "magic hands" make me laugh.

 

Since Regina is seeing Henry off to school, I'm guessing the day starts off as a non-eventful morning, with Regina by the bus stop, maybe Belle on the way to the shop or library, Emma and Hook getting coffee, and then BAM! Maleficent shows up on main street. The other villains seem to be filming at night, so not sure when they appear.

 

I wonder if the law office isn't just a staging area for the actors to hang out and get warm between filming.

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Souris

Souris

(edited)
I wonder if the law office isn't just a staging area for the actors to hang out and get warm between filming.

 

That's what I figure, too. I know they have done that before.

 

I hope that outfit is just what Merrin Dungey is wearing, because it doesn't say Ursula at all. (And, honestly, I'd like to have a word with Merrin about it.)

Edited by Souris
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Shanna Marie

Shanna Marie

Colin must either be very hardy or very warm-natured because everyone else seems to be huddled inside those giant parkas between takes, looking so cold that I had to go make a cup of hot tea because looking at them made me cold, and he's just wearing that short leather jacket and looks totally comfortable. He must have been dying in summer shooting in the much bigger coat.

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YaddaYadda

YaddaYadda

I hope that outfit is just what Merrin Dungey is wearing, because it doesn't say Ursula at all.

 

But what would scream Ursula though?  I think she's a character who will be difficult to replicate.  Also, cannot say enough times how excited I am about Merrin Dungey being on the show.  Alias was my favorite show for so long (I refuse to acknowledge the last two seasons of fuckery).

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Souris

Souris

(edited)

They're filming 4x12, apparently.

 

I am also amazed at how Colin is bopping along happily with just his jacket while everyone else is bundled up against the Arctic. What is this Irish Ice King sorcery?

 

I'm not sure exactly what would say Ursula, but that ain't it! Unless she's just been brought in from the Land Without Magic. A strapless dress would be in-character, but too cruel to foist on anyone in Vancouver right now. They even gave Belle heavy tights with her miniskirt.

 

(Don't even get me STARTED on the Alias post-S2 fuckery. As one of the VartanHo.com webmistresses, I still have scars.)

Edited by Souris
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retrograde

retrograde

4.12

I'm cautiously optimistic about all of this. Cruella looks great. I'm definitely up for more Maleficent and Uraula. The multiple villain thing is definitely more interesting to me than just one. But this show does have a terrible track record with the back halves of its seasons, and I can also see this getting very bloated.

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Minneapple

Minneapple

Can't wait for Ursula and Cruella, my two favorite Disney villains! Cruella looks amazing. Maybe they can give Regina a lesson on how to be a villain. "How far you've fallen, Regina. Let's try more scheming, less whining, mkay?"

 

Also looking forward to more Captain Swan cuteness. And to Belle wising up and hopefully kicking Rumple to the curb. Not looking forward to "POOR RUMPLE, HE TOOK HOOK'S HEART AND DID EVIL THINGS BECAUSE HE WAS SAD."

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