Spoiler Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!

[Serena]

How can you say the writers didn't pull it out of their asses? When they were asked about Zelena's death back after 3B they said she was most definitely dead. Only now did they go oopsie, take backs are allowed! I think it was the D23 interview. They admitted themselves that they thought of a cool story for Zelena during S4, after they killed her off, and that's the reason they brought her back. That's straight from the horses' mouths.

 

I don't believe it was planned in S3 at all. Their plan was to go with some kind of Woegina/Frozen-Elsa story until Disney nixed it.

LMAO, you're right. We should dig up that interview.

[KingOfHearts]

I believe Bex was asked at a con if Zelena would ever return to Once. She answered, "On Once, anything is possible."

 

Here's at least one interview where they said Zelena died.

http://www.tvfanatic.com/2014/05/once-upon-a-time-producers-tease-struggles-of-redemption-a-shock/

 

 

I'm assuming the green smoke suggests we haven't seen the last of Zelena. Will we be seeing more of her in season 4?

Adam: All we can say is that Zelena died. That's what happened in the last episode.

Eddy: She has been defeated and we will really not see her in this finale and as far as season 4, you never know.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

as far as season 4, you never know.

 

Damn it, this really was planned all along.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Curio

[orza]

From the D23 interview from August 2014:

So, looking back to the end of last season, can you explain what exactly happened when the Wicked Witch disintegrated, turned into dust, got into the box with the emerald pendant, and opened the portal?
Adam: She died. She turned into some kind of dust and disappeared because of her magical nature. What happened was, the pendant—which had her magic in it—was triggered at the moment of her death and opened the portal. That wasn’t Zelena in smoke form coming out—it was the magic that we had seen that was absorbed into the pendant Glinda gave her. The pendant became the source of Zelena’s power. Regina removed it and put it into her vault. And at the moment of her death, that triggered the portal opening.
Eddy: Of course, “death” is a relative term.

 

So, yeah, they are hinting that Zelena was not most sincerely dead and a return is possible, Adam and Eddy are very cagey with their wording in interviews.

[Shanna Marie]

That doesn't sound to me as "planned" so much as "keeping our options open in case we get an idea in the future and would hate ourselves if we'd been definitive." And that's perfectly okay. I could buy finding out that Zelena was alive. I just can't buy the idea that the Marian we've seen since Emma's time travel adventure has been Zelena all along because there are way too many holes in it and it would be out of character for Zelena to pull something like that off for that long a time.

 

Wacky thought that just crossed my mind: what if suddenly turning Marian into Zelena is the Author's way of granting Regina's wish for a happy ending? On the one hand, it does give her boyfriend back without that pesky wife who just refuses to die when she's supposed to, but at what cost? Would that finally be one step too far for Robin? He was apparently able to deal with the fact that Regina was why he lost Marian in the first place, but would he be okay with Marian being wished out of existence so Regina could get a happy ending? And would Regina rather have Marian in the picture or Zelena hanging around and annoying her? Not that I expect the show to go there, since Saint Regina deserves all good things and would never be seen as causing harm, but it would be amusing if there were crazy ripple effects from Regina's demands.

[LizaD]

I wasn't talking about that D23 interview. I was talking about the one they did a few weeks back. Where they admitted straight up that they thought this up at the end of 4A.

 

 

D23: You told us last May that Zelena had died. And yet here comes Rebecca Mader back as the Wicked Witch. What gives?
Eddy: Apparently the quote, “The news of my death has been greatly exaggerated,” applies in this case.
Adam: From the perspective of our characters, she was dead. And from the perspective of our characters, she remains dead. Every now and then, we don’t pick our words with quite the exactitude we’d like.
Eddy: Or we have a really great idea a week later. It’s really fun to see Regina and her sister. We have a really fun idea that we love for Zelena that we started kicking around toward the end of last year and have slowly been putting into place.

 

This interview was in Feb 2015. "End of last year"= end of 2014= end of 4A not S3 period.

Edited March 4, 2015 by LizaD

[Serena]

Narratively, it doesn't make sense to reunite/get together OQ in 420 instead of the finale. That's what they did in S3, but it was set up for them being torn apart in 322. So it is possible that they get back together in 420, but then stupid Operation Mongoose blows up in their faces? There HAVE to be some consequences of the season-long plot, right?

 

Back to Zelena... it's so ridiculous that they said they had a "great idea" to bring her back at the end of 4A. Um, that idea has been kicking around the Internet for almost one year now, and you weren't the ones who "had" it. A 14 year old OQ fangirl on Tumblr "had" it.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Serena

[YaddaYadda]

So how important are Maleficent and Lily to the end of the season?  I think someone might have mentioned on here something about the time portal coming back into play?  Emma managed to reopen the portal with the Black Fairy wand which we know Rumple has.

[Curio]

If Regina and Robin are happy now, there's no way they'd let them be happy by the end of the season

 

I don't know about that. The writers have separated them for nearly all of 4B and they were the couple that had the big, sad goodbye at the town line at the end of 4A. They also had major angst at the end of 3B when Marian came back into the picture. I think the writers might actually give them bliss for these final 3 episodes. On the other hand, I'd imagine the couple that has had the smoothest sailing throughout all of Season 4 and had the happy ending at the end of Season 3 will be either torn apart or given huge angst as the cliffhanger of Season 4.

[RadioGirl27]

So just to get away from the whole Zelenagate, am I the only one who is getting the impression that Emma going "dark" will be just a blip on the radar?  I know we don't see much of the filming, but it seems like the focus of the show is most definitely elsewhere.  I know we have 2 episodes left after this one for filming but still...

 

I think the "Emma goes dark" is going to be like this: Emma discovers what Snow and Charming did to Maleficent, and what Hook did to Ursula. She is deceived and pissed (the argument with Hook, not wanting to hug Snow). Rumple and the Queens use this to tempt her (those scenes with Emma looking distraught from episode 16), but, in the end, Regina (or Hook and Henry, but probably her BBF) convinces her to stay in the good side.

 

On the other hand, I'd imagine the couple that has had the smoothest sailing throughout all of Season 4 and had the happy ending at the end of Season 3 will be either torn apart or given huge angst as the cliffhanger of Season 4.

Yeah, every new pic I see of Hook and Emma being all happy and cute convinces me a bit more that the angsty cliffhanger is going to be about them. I have a couple of ideas, some good and some terrible. I just hope it makes sense.

Edited March 4, 2015 by RadioGirl27

[Souris]

Yeah, every new pic I see of Hook and Emma being all happy and cute convinces me a bit more that the angsty cliffhanger is going to be about them. I have a couple of ideas, some good and some terrible. I just hope it makes sense.

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure CS will be torn apart somehow in the finale.

[Shanna Marie]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure CS will be torn apart somehow in the finale.

I just hope it's physical and not emotional -- so not them having a fight/misunderstanding and being on the outs with each other, but rather one of them in some kind of jeopardy that separates them. Like one of them sucked through a portal, kidnapped, etc., where the other doesn't know the fate. They love recycling plots, so we could do Neal round 2, with, say, Hook shot and falling through a portal and Emma possibly believing he's dead, or else refusing to believe he's dead and going after him. Then we could get a journey to another world, which I think we're overdue for in the present. Or that could be when Emma goes dark, and that's the cliffhanger. I guess that still counts as "emotional," but it's on a bigger scale than them just having a spat, and I think he'd want to save her rather than being mad at her.

[Mitch]

I'm I the only one happy that Zelana is back ,and it's not only a flashback? Finally a villain that they didn't kill off and the green smoe thing finally makes sense.

 

I'm glad she is back...there will be some continuity between seasons and arcs at least.  I thought the killing of the Wicked Witch of the West was pretty lame but I do hope they don't make her as "desperate," as she was before and for God's Sake do not try to mack on Rump again! Maybe she will take a page from Cruella and Ursula and just be bad because its fun and all the good people besides Emma are a bunch of bores? Anyone who can get under Regina's skin and make her give that puss face is okay by me...(and I lurve Regina!)

 

Also, can we let Glinda out of her ice hut or whatever the hell it was?

[CatMack]

I don't mind that Zelena's back.  I thought her backstory was way too compressed - she went from zero to evil way too quickly, because shockingly, slow consistent character development is not a strong point of this series - but overall I didn't mind her character.  And I like the actress.  My problem is with how she's back.  Like, OK, maybe she didn't really die when Rumple attacked her, or she did die but couldn't really totally die because of the pendant and so came back.  That I can live with.  Even if I think it's a retcon, which I do, it's certainly not the most egregiously bad retcon this show has ever done.  But the Marian connection?  I'm not nearly flexible enough to be comfortable with that stretch.  

Edited March 4, 2015 by CatMack

[kili]

Also with the "eggs" clue, Maleficent has a daughter apparently so could that refer to human eggs? Maybe we'll get a fairyback with a pregnant Maleficent??

 

Malificient's other form is as a dragon (a form in which she spent 28 years trapped in the library basement). Maybe her children are born out of eggs (dwarves are born out of eggs in the EF, so there is a precedent).

 

Maybe she was in dragon form when the curse hit because she was tending her egg or something (and the Regina kicked the egg over the town line shortly after Storybrooke was formed and the authorities had to deal with two mysterious babies showing up in the woods in Maine - it would have to be Regina (even though she's the goodest good who ever gooded while Snowing is as dark as they come) because Charming was in a coma for those 28 years and Snow was a meek teacher who wouldn't have kicked a soccer ball (Regina probably kicked the egg over the line for the baby's own good).

[KingOfHearts]

 

Malificient's other form is as a dragon (a form in which she spent 28 years trapped in the library basement). Maybe her children are born out of eggs (dwarves are born out of eggs in the EF, so there is a precedent).

Lily was a dragon baby? I can imagine the awkwardness with Emma and Lily now. "Oh by the way, I may have accidentally slew your mom. Sorry, didn't know."

 

You know with Zelena back, I can't imagine the fact Rumple killed her not coming up.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

You know with Zelena back, I can't imagine the fact Rumple killed her not coming up.

"You know, with the news of Graham coming back for a flashback appearance, I can't imagine the fact Regina killed him not coming up."

- Curio, 2012

[sharky]

You know, Map had that egg in her that David threw in there, right? And Emma rescued or whatever? Maybe that has something to do with how Maleficent gets resurrected and ties into the eggs clue. Plus, how many times was the green pickle mentioned in the preview special. Maybe that wasn't a coincidence.

[YaddaYadda]

There's also that totem in the preview that David finds in Cruella's car and that belongs to Maleficent.  They think they'll be using it to bring Mal back.  So maybe it does contain something.  And it seems in the preview that they use blood on the ashes.  Whose blood is another ball game, but maybe they use the blood on both the totem and the ashes to resurrect her?

 

With this show, anything is possible.

[Rumsy4]

 

I think we can all agree 3B left some bread crumb trails that hinted towards the story going in this direction, but where it starts to fall apart is the way Marian was portrayed in 4A. The only clue I can really think of is Robin's True Love's Kiss not working, otherwise, (IMO) the actress didn't do a good enough job of portraying her as a mole. ... That's why I'm curious to see if the writers never told Christie about the plot twist until her final script.

 

That's my problem with this twist. There were a lot of shady things in the way Zelena's death played out. So, A&E did leave themselves leeway to resurrect Zelena. However, there was no subtlety in the way Marian was portrayed. There were zero clues in her words or body language, or in the reactions of people who knew her well, to indicate that she was an imposter. And why was her heart red? It's hard to believe that Zelena has no darkness in her heart. It just doesn't add up. But it does seem like that's what they are going for. Maybe Zelena was planning to murder Robin Hood and steal Roland for her own and somehow find a portal back to the EF? After all, she sent Walsh to the Lw/oM somehow! It's too convoluted. 

[Shanna Marie]

Would a disguise spell even keep working while Zelena-as-Marian was frozen because of the ice curse? Is a disguise like that a fix it and forget it thing that last even while she's asleep or unconscious, or does it take constant work to maintain?

 

And I still can't see Zelena telling Regina that she totally understood her husband being so in love with Regina that he'd moved on from her. That would be even more convoluted revenge than Regina's curse scheme. If she came back as Marian to continue to try to thwart Regina, then that's when she'd have done the "stay away, bitch, he's mine" routine.

 

If they try to tell us that it was Zelena all along, then I will know the writers have lost all touch with reality. That might even be the thing that ends the addiction, where the balance tips from "often painful, but has enough good moments that I'm hooked" to "yeah, I can tell this is never going to make me happy."

[YaddaYadda]

Even the way the episodes were directed, they never focused on Marian's reactions at all.  Usually the camera follows the mustache twirler.  Instead, they were all about Regina's reactions and Regina's pain.

 

I'm already tired of this Zelena business and that episode hasn't even aired yet.  I'm hoping for something new so that we can move on from this conversation.

 

ETA - I hope Zelena comes out and tells Regina how she and Robin "renewed" their relationship in every sense of the word.  Let's see how she feels when she realizes that there's nothing cute about that, much like there was nothing cute about her and Graham.

Edited March 4, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[KAOS Agent]

Before they even try to convince me that Zelena = Marian, they're going to need to explain how a completely powerless human Zelena survived being stabbed in the heart with the dagger. So Pan's totally alive too right? I cannot tell you how dumb I find this storyline. I also think it's a problem to introduce it a year after the Zelena story came to an end. Can you imagine the amount of exposition that will be needed to explain this? I agree that this might be the thing that causes me to stop watching.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Before they even try to convince me that Zelena = Marian, they're going to need to explain how a completely powerless human Zelena survived being stabbed in the heart with the dagger.

Because her life was in the pendant, as Glinda said.

 

 

I agree that this might be the thing that causes me to stop watching.

I find it funny that in a show that vindicates mass murderers, always climaxes with a contrived magical object, assassinates characters left and right, baits angry shippers, and consistently lets people down that this is what would bring people to stop watching. As if the writers haven't pulled this stuff a million times before. I don't see how this is any worse or more convoluted than 2B.

 

 

Would a disguise spell even keep working while Zelena-as-Marian was frozen because of the ice curse?

We don't know when she switched with Marian though. For all we know there's some contrived object Zelena left in the furniture shop that Robin happens to tamper with. I don't believe they're going to go with just a straight "she's been shapeshifted as her this whole time". Otherwise they would have thrown in that something was off with Marian. These writers are just not that subtle.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I've quit watching before. This isn't the first time. I just was interested enough in other characters/stories to come back when I heard about them. Nothing I've seen or heard interests me at this point. So why is it surprising that something I find so stupid that I can't even try to make sense of it would make me turn off this show for good? These are incomplete spoilers at this point, so maybe something will turn up, but Zelena = Marian may make the final cut really easy. 

[kili]

I don't see how this is any worse or more convoluted than 2B.

 

2B caused a lot of viewers to stop watching. The ratings absolutely cratered.

 

Sometimes, a straw does break the camel's back. One can put up with a lot of crazy insanity, but a plot contrivance pulled out of one's butt with absolutely no foreshadowing or clues can turn out to be that straw. 

 

I think the straw breaking nature of this "twist" is that it really treats the viewers as if they were stupid. Like we'll buy anything. It's Bobby Ewing in the shower levels of ret-con. It's fine to build a world full of magic and unlikely stuff, but at least lay the groundwork and try to stay consistent.

 

It was bad enough when Zelena was introduced as the mystery sister that nobody knew existed, but now Zelena is the mystery body double that even the writer's didn't know existed.

 

This all makes me feel very sad for the actress that plays Marian because people are already blaming her for not being a good enough actress to have laid the breadcrumbs for this reveal. She can't lay the breadcrumbs when she's not been given one hint that this is going to happen.

Edited March 4, 2015 by kili

[Shanna Marie]

I find it funny that in a show that vindicates mass murderers, always climaxes with a contrived magical object, assassinates characters left and right, baits angry shippers, and consistently lets people down that this is what would bring people to stop watching. As if the writers haven't pulled this stuff a million times before. I don't see how this is any worse or more convoluted than 2B.

I think it's the final straw on the camel's back, at least, for me. On its own, if it is what we fear it is, it's really, really badly executed, but wouldn't be a dealbreaker. But coming after everything else they've done to whitewash Regina and give her everything she wants, it becomes a breaking point. It would be a ridiculously convoluted way to justify Regina's relationship with Robin, absolve Regina of Marian's imprisonment, absolve Robin and Regina of adultery, and provide the angst to kick off the absurd Author plot. It's a bad idea, executed badly, used to forward a really bad plot, and is the culmination of the black hole that is Regina, around whom the universe reshapes itself.

 

So maybe they really aren't going there.

 

Moving away from Zelenagate, have they already shot the Ursula-centric? If so, it would seem like anything that might be separating Hook and Emma at the cliffhanger (if the writers even care about them anymore -- what do you bet the cliffhanger will be Regina having something drastic happen to her, like a hangnail) after they appear to be pretty cozy at this point wouldn't involve whatever he did to Ursula. It's hard to imagine Emma breaking up with him over something he did hundreds of years ago. After all, she knows he didn't spend the last two hundred years gallantly helping old ladies cross the ocean. She knows he was a pirate. He's confessed that he went to a really dark place after his brother died. She's seen his past self. She saw him shoot Belle (she was there, wasn't she?). She really shouldn't be too angry at anything he did that long ago when she knows what he's like now.

[OnceUponAJen]

One thing I did find suspicious about Marian was how long she stayed knocked out after Emma hit her with that branch in the S3 finale. Was that Zelena just playing along?

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think the straw breaking nature of this "twist" is that it really treats the viewers as if they were stupid. Like we'll buy anything.

The show does that a lot already though. Just the Woegina whitewashing and the Author plot seem to believe the audience is full of idiots who will take whatever the characters will say. I think what's different with this Zelena thing is that people just hate Zelena, don't want to see her again, and they don't want any more vindication to Outlaw Queen. I don't hate Zelena, and I already knew this twist was coming a long time ago, so I don't feel cheated here. Mileage will vary.

 

 

I've quit watching before. This isn't the first time. I just was interested enough in other characters/stories to come back when I heard about them. Nothing I've seen or heard interests me at this point. So why is it surprising that something I find so stupid that I can't even try to make sense of it would make me turn off this show for good? These are incomplete spoilers at this point, so maybe something will turn up, but Zelena = Marian may make the final cut really easy.

This I find easier to believe. Coupling with it with all the uninteresting plots in 4B.

 

 

Moving away from Zelenagate, have they already shot the Ursula-centric?

 

Believe so. It's 4x15.

Edited March 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

We don't know when she switched with Marian though. For all we know there's some contrived object Zelena left in the furniture shop that Robin happens to tamper with.

 

I pray beyond all hope that's what it turns out to be. Maybe Robin accidentally sets off some magical object that brings the emerald pendant back to life in that Wizard of Oak shop, but the green smoke has to tether to a body so it chooses Marian, essentially killing the real Marian on the inside. Somehow, Regina and Emma do something that forces the true person on the inside to be revealed, and that's how Zelena is reincarnated. Based on what we've seen in 4A, that's the least ret-conny way this could work.

 

it would seem like anything that might be separating Hook and Emma at the cliffhanger (if the writers even care about them anymore -- what do you bet the cliffhanger will be Regina having something drastic happen to her, like a hangnail) after they appear to be pretty cozy at this point wouldn't involve whatever he did to Ursula.

 

If the cliffhanger involves Emma and Hook (I'd like it to be, but I could also see yet another cliffhanger involving Regina or Rumple), then I doubt it's anything involving Ursula's past. That Ursula episode is 4.15 and we're already at 4.20, so unless Hook has been keeping secrets again, I think they've already resolved that issue. And even if he is keeping it a secret, like you said, Emma shouldn't care to the point of breaking up. He's a good man now. But I agree that if there's any separation or angst between them that it should be physical and not emotional. (I've also just been really, really, really wanting a jump to a new land for a while, and this seems the perfect opportunity to do it.)

Edited March 4, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

I don't actually hate Zelena. I think the character was badly handled, but there was potential there, and I really like the actress. I hate the idea of using Zelena to whitewash Regina further. It was bad enough that this witch who was so super powerful that all the good witches in Oz couldn't fight her could be defeated by Regina's miraculous sudden white magic, when Regina wasn't nearly as powerful as Zelena with dark magic. But then using Zelena to further whitewash Regina and somehow make Robin and Regina okay irks me.

 

I like the idea of Zelena coming back. I think that would be interesting to explore. They never really dealt with her relationship with Regina. I was disappointed that she was "killed" right when she seemed to sort of be getting a clue, when she and Regina might have started coming to terms with each other. There was enough uncertainty about her "death" that there was room for her to return. I mostly just hate the idea that she was Marian all along and the idea of this being used to say, "Oh, Regina, you can have Robin Hood, after all! And look, they weren't really committing adultery because Marian wasn't really Marian!" It's such a stupid idea that I can't imagine professional writers would do it, but I've lost all faith in this writing team.

[Curio]

Hey! Look! Shiny non-Zelena related spoilers!

 

Quotes for the next episode:

QUOTE:  “I’m going to choose to see the best in you.”

QUOTE:  “Why are these witches waging war against us?”

QUOTE: “When I’m finished, you won’t have a family for me to hunt.”

QUOTE:  “If only your wits matched your looks.”

QUOTE:  “Enjoy your witch hunt.”

QUOTE:  “I know everyone wants me to remember, but I don’t.”

QUOTE:  “I have a feeling they have plenty of suffering in their future.”

QUOTE:  “You’re going to watch your world crumble.”

QUOTE: “Whatever you did, you’re not that person anymore.”

QUOTE:  “Your slumber is nearly over.”

Edited March 5, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

“If only your wits matched your looks.”  -- I bet that this is one of the witches to David

[kili]

I'll play:

QUOTE:  “I’m going to choose to see the best in you.” - Regina to Ursula? (it's got to be a newly reformed villain and Regina seems to know her best despite not knowing her at all before)
QUOTE:  “Why are these witches waging war against us?” - Grumpy to a room full of people
QUOTE: “When I’m finished, you won’t have a family for me to hunt.” -  Flashback: Regina to Snow? or maybe Mal if it is her sob story
QUOTE:  “If only your wits matched your looks.” - Cruella to Charming?
QUOTE:  “Enjoy your witch hunt.” - Regina to Snowing? She knows they are looking for them
QUOTE:  “I know everyone wants me to remember, but I don’t.” - Regina to the room? She doesn't remember something she did to somebody vanilla?
QUOTE:  “I have a feeling they have plenty of suffering in their future.” - Mal to the other two QoD?
QUOTE:  “You’re going to watch your world crumble.” - Flashback Regina to Mal? Snow?
QUOTE: “Whatever you did, you’re not that person anymore.” - Emma to Regina (got to build her up buttercup, plus its to offset whatever evil Regina is up to in the flashbacks - nobody would say this to Snow. They would just tell her she is vile).
QUOTE:  “Your slumber is nearly over.” - Moriatity to Sleepy (Moriarity will be our new misunderstood villain from a new land called Edwardian England, Sleepy's slumber is nearly over because Moriarity is about to kill him. But it will all be Snow's fault. She took the last chocolate truffle at the buffet and he has never recovered).

[SiobhanJW]

QUOTE: “Whatever you did, you’re not that person anymore.

I'm guessing Emma to Hook. Or someone to Hook.

[Mari]

Would a disguise spell even keep working while Zelena-as-Marian was frozen because of the ice curse? Is a disguise like that a fix it and forget it thing that last even while she's asleep or unconscious, or does it take constant work to maintain?

 

And I still can't see Zelena telling Regina that she totally understood her husband being so in love with Regina that he'd moved on from her. That would be even more convoluted revenge than Regina's curse scheme. If she came back as Marian to continue to try to thwart Regina, then that's when she'd have done the "stay away, bitch, he's mine" routine.

 

If they try to tell us that it was Zelena all along, then I will know the writers have lost all touch with reality. That might even be the thing that ends the addiction, where the balance tips from "often painful, but has enough good moments that I'm hooked" to "yeah, I can tell this is never going to make me happy."

Plus, if spells and magical changes to the body don't last once you leave Storybrooke--and they haven't.  Doesn't Rumple's limp reappear when he crosses the border?--why would any disguise/body changing spell continue to work once they crossed?  Shouldn't Zelena have twitched back into her own body shape then?

 

I still think they intended to leave the door open to Zelena returning at some point, but didn't plan the Zelena/Marian bodyswap thing until A,E, and Parilla started getting awkward questions they didn't expect, because of their ReginaWow! glasses.

[CatMack]

The quote about not remembering is probably from Pinocchio, given they're going to question him about his August years.

[YaddaYadda]

These ones we already know who they are from.

 

“Why are these witches waging war against us?”  - Emma to David

“When I’m finished, you won’t have a family for me to hunt.”  -  Maleficent to Snow

“Your slumber is nearly over.”  - Rumple to Maleficent's ashes

 

 

The rest I don't know, but there seems to be a lot of lines that concern Snow and David (I'm thinking mostly Snow though)

“I know everyone wants me to remember, but I don’t.”   -  This very likely Pinocchio

[KingOfHearts]

 

I still think they intended to leave the door open to Zelena returning at some point, but didn't plan the Zelena/Marian bodyswap thing until A,E, and Parilla started getting awkward questions they didn't expect, because of their ReginaWow! glasses.

I'd be okay with the Zelena-is-Marian plot if they had actually done it in 4A or at least left clues. It's so late in the game that any sense the conspiracy had is gone. I like Marian as a character and I don't want her ruined. Heck, if Robin could die and Marian could join the cast as a single mom with street sense, then I'd be up to that. She would even make as a great bestie for Snow.

 

 

I like the idea of Zelena coming back. I think that would be interesting to explore. They never really dealt with her relationship with Regina. 

Ditto. I could find Redeemed Zelena to be potentially interesting, plus as a good foil for Regina. The character was executed so poorly in 3B. It didn't do her justice. If they could flesh out her character, she could be a nice addition. There are a million better ways to resurrect her than shapeshifting. 

 

 

“Your slumber is nearly over.”  - Rumple to Maleficent's ashes

Isn't it a bit random that Maleficent turned into a dragon, got slayed, turned into a ghost, and now she's ashes? How she not be "dead is dead" if only her ashes remain? Way to weird the audience out. Add in Ursula's green wardrobe and Cruella's magical powers, and you've got worried Facebook comments.

Edited March 5, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[turbogirlnyc]

Has the Zelena/Marian bodyswap scenario been "officially" confirmed? If so, wtf?? Seriously.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Has the Zelena/Marian bodyswap scenario been "officially" confirmed? If so, wtf?? Seriously.

Sort of. She was seen wearing Marian's coat in filming photos.

[turbogirlnyc]

Sort of. She was seen wearing Marian's coat in filming photos.

I hope this is due to budget cuts in the costume department. Didn't Mary Margaret & Emma wear the same dress in past seasons?

[pezgirl7]

I hope this is due to budget cuts in the costume department. Didn't Mary Margaret & Emma wear the same dress in past seasons?

Zelena was also wearing Marian's boots, so I think that pretty much confirms that Zelena was impersonating Marian.

I hope “Whatever you did, you’re not that person anymore." was said by Emma to Hook, but with this show, it was probably said to Regina.

[LizaD]

Anyone else find it disturbing they're trying to force a kid to remember his adult past for their own selfish purposes? What if the kid remembers "August" having an orgy in Thailand? Or getting high on ecstasy? Or getting wood-tasered by Tamara? Like those things could be traumatizing for a kid.

[Mari]

Anyone else find it disturbing they're trying to force a kid to remember his adult past for their own selfish purposes? What if the kid remembers "August" having an orgy in Thailand? Or getting high on ecstasy? Or getting wood-tasered by Tamara? Like those things could be traumatizing for a kid.

IT's for Regina.  Therefore, no one else's trauma is as important as her finding some (more) happiness, and we should all recognize the necessity of her actions and applaud.  Augustnoccio is being selfish by not willingly offering himself up for legilimency and tears.

[YaddaYadda]

Anyone else find it disturbing they're trying to force a kid to remember his adult past for their own selfish purposes?

 

Yes, it is and that's probably the reason Emma is there in the first place to make sure he doesn't get pushed around.

[retrograde]

Apparently they also filmed a scene with Emma and Hook at the dock yesterday. 

[Shanna Marie]

I could find Redeemed Zelena to be potentially interesting, plus as a good foil for Regina.

I'm not sure she actually was redeemed. She was just helpless. That's part of what made her interesting at that point. Make her "normal" and there might have been a chance to reach her. Giving Regina a project, someone for her to help and reach out to, would have been good for Regina, too. So far, all of Regina's so-called redemption has involved others catering to her needs. She's never really put herself out there to help anyone else emotionally. Trying to help someone else navigate that journey would have gone a long way toward making her redemption believable.

 

I did like Marian, what little we saw of her, so I really hate the idea that maybe she's actually dead somewhere or that the character I liked wasn't what she seemed, with no clue whatsoever that she wasn't what she seemed. Plus, it was already bad that her return amounted to a plot device to launch the dumbest plot in all of history, but it becomes worse if it wasn't really her. Would Operation Idiocy collapse in upon itself if Regina's able to have Robin after all because it turns out his wife was really just a crazy witch all this time? What happens then, does she shrug her shoulders and say, "Oops, never mind," after an entire season of this stupid plot?

[KingOfHearts]

 

I'm not sure she actually was redeemed.

I'm not saying she was ever redeemed. I'm just saying if she were, she would be interesting.

[retrograde]

Very clear photos from filming yesterday. Nothing new in there, but you can pretty much watch the whole scene play out (especially on the fourth page). Probably!Lily really seems to give Snowing a dirty look as she passes them. 

 

I'm guessing there's going to be a whole "the importance of family" message in this episode, and I wonder if it will extend to Emma forgiving her folks, or if that will play out for a bit longer. On the plus side, it could actually be the impetus for her getting her own apartment in 5A.